“Scorpion, Part I”

To me, getting involved in the Borg-8472 war is a prime directive issue. I was surprised it wasn't brought up.

Why dosen't Captain Janeway arrange for passage to the Alpha Quadrant in exchange for the technology to fight species 8472, or at least a way to get further away from Borg space.

I like the Scorpion episodes but it seems to me that Captain Janeway has missed an opportunity here.

Of course the writers can't allow this to happen but the opportunity wasn't even explored.

If the Borg had discounted the possibility that would have been something, but Janeway never even thinking of it makes her seem narrow minded. A relection of the writers maybe?

Adding Species 8472 to the Star Trek universe seems like a mistake to me. The Borg were the ultimate bad guys, impossible to reason with, impossible to defeat in head-on confrontation. Watching them negotiate and have their butt kicked detracts from the experience.

I was watching Part 1 last night and as always I noticed something I hadn't before in previous viewings (one thing I like about Trek). I'm probably nitpicking, 'cause it's all sci-fi anyway, but it concerns the scene where Torres is attempting to transport the away team off the damaged Borg cube. 8472 is giving off interference making transport impossible (a VOY staple more than any other ST series). She then tells Janeway she'll lock on to the minerals in their bones and tells Janeway something along the lines of "I just thought of it, but I'm pretty sure it'll work."

1) That takes a lot of ego to be so confident in a transport procedure (as far as I can tell from the dialog) that has never been used in the history of transporter technology. How do you even do something like that?

2) By locking on to the minerals, wouldn't those be the only things being transported? She's not even locking on to their skeletons!

I know, it's all nitpicking. But this time, I just happened to notice that scene and it got me thinking. Which most VOY episodes don't do, outside of "This series could have been so much better than it wound up being."

However, this probably does stand as the best episode (even without Part 2 ['cause I've never been a big fan of Seven of Nine]) VOY ever made. Although my favorite 2 part VOY episode is "Year of Hell" from S4.

Thanks for letting me share.

Agreed with the four stars. VOY has a lot to answer for, but this episode stands as one of Trek's best- exciting, thoughtful, provocative, energetic. I will always remember it fondly.

I agree with your review of this ep, but I think the fact that the borg were re-introduced demonstrates that the writers' creativity was drying up. I mean, they're supposed to be in a completely unexplored part of the galaxy, but the show failed to produce any really interesting new villains. Species 8472 was cool, but the threat from them was resolved far too easily, and "In the Flesh" from season 5 didn't really amount to anything, since we never saw them again afterward.

- Prime Directive should have been mentioned, agreed.
- Couldn't Voyager have used a transwarp conduit? Seems it wouldn't have taken that long using those.

and the biggest issue:

- If the Voyager crew was so sure they'd have to cross vast stretches of Borg space to get home, would they REALLY have tried to get home at all? Think about it. The odds of getting home would be slim even in safe space, and it would take decades (in fact it DID take decades in the original, unaltered timeline.) On top of that, you're passing through enemy space with thousands of enemy ships, any one of which could potentially destroy you. Suicidal much?

This episode is just about perfect. Obviously the writers knew what it takes to create a thrilling, moving and thought-provoking hour of television. Which makes it all the more strange that they didn't manage to succeed more often.

"By locking on to the minerals, wouldn't those be the only things being transported? She's not even locking on to their skeletons!"

I think there's a difference between the lock and the actual transport. The lock is just the way of finding what is being transported.

I didn't like many of Janeway's sentiments in this episode. For example at one point she says to the Doctor:

"I want you to transfer all of the research [the nanoprobe modifications] into your holomatrix. You're my guarantee. If the Borg threaten us in any way - we'll simply erase your program."

If Torres or one of the others had come up with the technology, would she have so calmly said something along the lines of: "Lieutenant, keep this technology to yourself. Don't discuss it with anyone. If the Borg try to assimilate us, I'll simply kill you" ... ?

I'm surprised some people still don't understand the concept of prime directive. In essence it is not interfering or introducing yourself to a PRE-WARP civilization. This concept came from the point of industrialized civilizations interfering with natives of non-industrialized nations. Most of the time in the course of human history, industrialized cultures end up being the upper hand wrecking the natural progression of the non-industrialized culture - at least this was the point ST is making.

Pretty good episode, although the part with Torres "locking on to their bone structure" was pretty silly. Interesting how it allowed the characters just enough time to see Species 8472 without getting killed. More than any of the other Trek shows, Voyager likes to come up with plot devices and resolutions on the fly with a few lines of asinine technobabble.

Still, Scorpion is about as good as the series ever got. Not worthy of four stars though, In my opinion no Voyager episode is anything more than 3 star material.

In baseball terms, this third season finale was like hitting a grand slam with 2 outs and 2 strikes in the bottom of the ninth with your team down 3 runs. It literally saved the season and not only kept me watching, but got me EXCITED to see the season 4 opener. It was without a doubt the best Trek cliffhanger episode since "The Best of Both Worlds, part 1." The sight of that Borg Cube barely escaping destruction with Voyager in tow gave me a nerdgasm.

To those invoking the Prime Directive: The Borg do not have any kind of recognizable government or social order. They are hell bent on assimilating the entire galaxy. Species 8472 (at this point) is threatening basically the same thing. Therefore, the Prime Directive does not apply in either case. Arm torpedoes.

Re the "Skeletal Lock" - OK, it didn't detract from the show for me all that much, but it really bugged the hell out of me all the same. Here we have yet another inane Voyager technobabble plot contrivance.

Bio-electric interference got you down? Well here's an idea: take it out of the freaking script! Or at the very least, make it less of a problem. A few extra lines of technobabble-induced tension made no difference in the story's outcome. VOY was indeed the worst offender when it came to this stuff. I feel really bad for Roxann Dawson who was the unfortunate actor that had to memorize 90% of this shit and spew it at the camera. A waste of her terrific acting talent.

Here's how that scene should have gone:

JANEWAY: Voyager to Away Team.
CHAKOTAY: Go ahead.
JANEWAY: Stand by for transport. We're getting you out of there.
CHAKOTAY: Good idea.
JANEWAY: Energize.
TORRES: I can't get a lock on them.
JANEWAY: What's the problem?
TORRES: It looks like bio-electric interference from whatever's coming toward them.
CHAKOTAY: It's within seven meters. Let's get out of here!
JANEWAY: Narrow the confinement beam.
TORRES: Acknowledged.
CHAKOTAY: The lifeform's five meters away and closing.
KIM: From where?
TORRES: I've got them.
PARIS: Captain, the bio-ship is powering up, like it's charging some kind of weapon.
JANEWAY: Mister Paris, get us out of here. Maximum warp!

Instead we got:

JANEWAY: Narrow the confinement beam.
TORRES THE HALF-KLINGON SAVANT: No effect. I'm going to try a skeletal lock.
JANEWAY: What?
TORRES THE HALF-KLINGON SAVANT: I think I can get a clean lock on the minerals in their bone tissue. I just came up with it, but I think it might work.
CHAKOTAY: The lifeform's five meters away and closing.
KIM: From where?
TORRES THE HALF-KLINGON SAVANT: I've got them.
JANEWAY: A skeletal lock, huh? We'll have to add that one to the Transporter manual.

Yeah, I'm sure they did just that.

Pft.

@Justin That's ridiculous; your two examples of dialogue are almost identical. If you're that allergic to fake science that you would rather hear nothing at all rather than a few fake science terms allowing a crew member to be patted on the back for their technical knowledge, then why bother watching science fiction? Just watch Westerns.

I swear, the backlash against 'technobabble' has gotten way out of control. These are scientists; they should be talking science type stuff that we don't understand. The fact that we can't understand it makes it more realistic, not less. Technobabble is only bad when it gets to be too much and replaces all other methods of solving the plot, but in moderate amounts it makes the 24th Century seem more authentic and certainly as your comparative examples demonstrate it did not interfere with any enjoyment in this case as it was barely a hiccup in a standard scene.

My favorite Janeway line ever: "Think good thoughts."

What was with the corny "think good thoughts" line Janeway utters when the Borg scan them with a polaron beam? Did the Borg assimilate the goofy psionic artifact from "Gambit"? Even if that somehow mitigated things, only a handful of the bridge crew could even hear her suggestion, to say nothing of the others aboard ship.

This is Janeway's 'In the Pale Moonlight' though in reality what she does is worse than Sisko.
Basically she corrupts all the values of the Federation for the sake of her crew getting home. At least when Sisko got his hands dirty it was for the safety of the entire Quadrant.

Don't get me wrong though, I love this episode, both parts and personally I like seeing a bit of darkness on Trek (see what I did there) now and then. 4/4 easily.

Species 8472...

Spoilers, mostly for Star Trek Online -


Otherwise known as the Undine, and able to take on any form, changeling style! So it is known a little later in STO, when the Klingons are a little baffled at just what Starfleet *did* to piss these creatures off so much. Now you shall know.

To V: I think you are the one who has the Prime Directive wrong. Though it is most often invoked (on the various Trek shows) in cases of less-developed societies, that's not the entirety of the directive. The idea is much larger than that. They're not supposed to "interfere" with non-Federation societies' "natural" progression/behavior/way of being. It goes far beyond technological concerns.

For example, when Wesley Crusher inadvertently breaks the law on that seemingly-idyllic world where everyone jogs a lot, it is a violation of the Prime Directive to beam the kid out of their jail and leave. The Directive requires that members of Starfleet adhere to local law. And since the locals want Wesley to stand trial, the Enterprise has to let him. (Instead, Picard violates the Prime Directive. Cause the Edo's God tells him it's ok to. Huh?)

Picard won't even help the Square Pegs actor who played Kirk's son and the reject from Dexys Midnight Runners get off drugs safely, because even REVEALING to them that they're on drugs is a violation of the Prime Directive. In that case, it was interfering in the "natural" interrelationship that had developed between the drug dealing culture and the addict culture.

On Voyager, the Prime Directive doesn't really last past the first season or two. And even then, it seems to only come up when it's convenient. For example, on the planet with the smarmy, slicked hair dude who only loves new, exciting things and doesn't want to blip Voyager home, Janeway specifically says that they can't just steal the technology and use it without the smarmy guy's consent. That would be a violation of the Prime Directive; in that case, using technology that hasn't been freely shared with them. And that's VOYAGER gaining SUPERIOR technology, not the other way around.

As for Justin's comments about the Borg not having a government or social order...I might agree with you on the first point. But not on the second. The Borg have a hyper-organized social order. Just because it's not centered on individuation and self-determination doesn't mean it's not a society. And Species OU812 (I'm bad with names) certainly has a society. An organized enough one that they're winning a war with the Borg, for goodness sakes. For Voyager to intervene on either side's behalf, when they are not already intrinsically involved and are not being asked for help*, is to attempt to insert themselves into the "natural" progression of these two species.

(*"Asking for help" seems slippery in Prime Directive terms. Data, it seems, can apparently help Sarjenka once she explicitly asks for help. But Picard can't step in and help the druggies even though they're asking for help. Maybe cause they're not asking for the right help? Or maybe you can only help someone if there is only one player involved, and you're not inherently choosing sides?)

As for the Borg and Species 8675309 being hell bent on destruction: even if that is true, it's moot. Voyager is in no direct danger. They can choose to avoid the conflict. And at this point, we know nothing about Species 25 Or 6 To 4. They might be really nice, and just defending themselves against a Borg attack.

But anyway, Prime Directive aside, Janeway knows enough about the nano-probe thing that the Borg could just assimilate her and not have to bargain at all. Or they could, you know, read the mind of the telepathic medical assistant. Oh wait-- they already did. What, Kes knew NOTHING about the nano-probes? Lazy writing.

Torres can lock onto my bone anytime.

"Also, is helping the Borg—a race of conquerors guilty of murdering and assimilating billions—to assimilate yet another species something even worth Voyager's safety?"

In the first place, the nonhuman groups of beings we see in Star Trek -- Vulcan, Cardassian, Klingon, Species 90210 -- are not other races; they're other species. In the second place, and on that premise, the Borg are not a species (or a race). As I understand it, there are no "native" Borg -- they've all been assimilated from other species.

@Laroquod: HEAR, HEAR, HEAR, HEAR!!!

Just wanted to echo the sentiments that this is a great episode.

@Kristen - Thank you. I am Always trying to explain to people that the prime directive is multifaceted and not just about hiding from pre warp cultures. As you described, it is a multi-faceted directive about interference with other civilizations sovereignty. I think the issue in "Sumbiosis" was that they could help the Ornarans since they asked for it (if there had been an actual plague for Crusher to cure), but couldn't reveal the Brekkan's deception because it would disrupt the Brekkan's non-federation social order. Admittedly a fine line but those hard calls are why Picards the captain. I also like to use "The Hunted" as an example as it well describes how much the federation will interfere with all its discussions of "Internal security matters."

I am with Chakotay for once. What ,makes her think 8472 is less of a threat assimilated? Hello? Not doing delta quadrant a favor. Where is her senses that maybe the aliens feel threatened and show them they'll help kill Borg to get home. Then we wouldn't get the Borg babe I guess.

No contact with pre-warp species is only ONE part of the Prime Directive. Even there, it's just one interpretation of the PD in the post-TOS era. In TOS, they dealt with pre-warp societies quite often. No contact with pre-warp species is more of a rule of thumb. But there is another major aspect to the Prime Directive that has nothing to do with Warp vs. Pre-warp. Even if a species has warp drive, you can't simply meddle in their internal affairs. Let's say a planet elects a government you don't like. You can't go in and stage a coup, regardless of whether they have warp drive. You also can't smuggle goods that are illegal or engage in other activities that are illegal there. Of course, the Borg are enemies, and the Federation isn't going to care in the slightest of any meddling with the Borg.

It's a good episode, but I had to overlook the irrationality of even considering going through Borg space. Go around, even if it takes an additional 40 years. You're already going to be gone 70 years, and you're hoping to find a shortcut. You could find a short cut on the 110 year path as readily on the 70 year path.

It makes sense that the Borg aren't good at investigating. The Borg must control thought tightly in order to control the collective. Allowing drones to have their own ideas could allow ideas of freedom to spread through the collective. That probably is why the Borg are so interested in humans. They desire that creativity even as they fear it. They may well hope to assimilate that creativity in a way that they can control.

An agreement with the Borg isn't easy, the Borg deal with force rather than diplomacy. It is really a weakness, because planets have no choice but to resist even if it is futile. Imagine if the Borg were more cunning, and played off one planet against another. Or they could "harvest" planets - don't assimilate them all, just a percentage. Then they could come back in a decade and do it again, and assimilate new technology. Negotiating for use of a Transwarp hub would be a good thing, but the Borg would never keep their word. With this agreement, the Borg will of course betray them, but will not do so today.

This is the best Voyager action 2 parter I've seen so far. Very dramatic, bombastic, some nice music and Janeway and Chakotay's little verbal spars were riveting. Superficial? Yep, but it's one of Trek's best action outtings.

Futile, pedantic crusade alert: PLEASE do not abuse the word "literally". I know, I know, even the OED has (inexcusably) warped the definition to allow it in the context Jammer has employed above ("...literally make a deal with the devil."). But, to borrow a phrase, the line MUST be drawn HERE! The Borg are not some mystical incarnation of the famous cloven crowd-control device; Alice Krige is not Satan (although she clearly qualifies as godlike.) No other single word in the English language conveys the concept, and being squishy on this is just going too far! Great review, classic episode. Gotta run, I've literally got a hundred more of these to write!

By far the best episode of Voyager up to this point. Every aspect of it is top-notch and completely unexpected compared to what came before. Great pacing, direction, performances, music, effects, and also some very nicely realized thought provoking moments.

I really never found any flaw with this episode. Even with Janeway's decision to make a deal with the Borg. After all, if the crew went in search of a new home it would only be a matter of time before the Undine got to them after they were done with the Borg. It's also a decision that has consequences bigger than the crew itself.

Very compelling installment thematically, dramatically, and visually. A classic in every sense of the word.

4 stars.

Man I miss old school FX and creature design. The CGI of Species 8472 just takes me out of it... they don't look real.

The most interesting thing about this episode, aside from finally being introduced to an interesting threat that will persist for more then 2 episodes (the Kazon were neither interesting nor particularly threatening and the Vidiians weren't much better) is Janeway's dilemma.

Chakotay was right when he said she was so hellbent on getting home that even the almost insurmountable odds of surviving the ordeal they are faced with does not make her step back is ludicrous.
She was so determined to achieve that one goal that she wouldn't even listen to Chakotay, despite him making very good points as to why they shouldn't go through with it.
One example: When Janeway explains her plan to the crew, she calls the Doctor and his technology her ace in the hole, telling him if the Borg don't take her bait, she'll delete his program. I don't know if you've noticed, but the Doctor's face was one of utter shock and disbelief. Would she dismiss B'elanna or Tuvok just as easily if they had been the ones to come up with her ace in the hole?
Nobody even stopped to consider how ruthless this was? I know the show has a tight schedule to keep and they can't possibly dwell on every little slight that a character may or may not cause through their actions, but still...

Chakotay's best line of the series...

"My God"

Can't wait to watch this one again!

I think season 3 is the weakest season of all the star trek shows, it's a real mess and Scrorpion part 1 is the only good episode in this season, unfortunately it leads to the introduction of that awful 7 character.

Can't add much to Jammer's outstanding review.

This episode was just riveting, suspenseful, thoughtful, exciting... it had it all.

I have no problem with Janeway's decision here because now the Borg know Voyager is in the DQ and they would be easy pickins... I don't see Chakotay's option as a survivable one.

Right up there with Distant Origin as an epic Voyager episode.

Welcome 7!!

Easy 4 stars here!

Reason/negotiate with the Borg? Oh Come on!

The best single episode of any Trek series I've watched so far? It's right up there. I didn't watch Voyager as it was being aired but this was the series I caught some of. I don't much remember anything else, but I distinctly remember this - as noted above, in the context of the series this comes in and single-handedly makes Voyager exciting and interesting again.

Has there ever been a finer Trek image than those first Borg cubes smashed by an unknown assailant, the 15 Borg cubes rushing past Voyager to intercept, and then the wreckage of those 15? Species 8472 is alien enough to be interesting, the damage to Kim disturbing, the idea of a deal with the Borg riveting, and the conversation between Janeway and Chakotay nails all the key beats. The VFX are spectacular too - the final shot of the cube running with Voyager in tow is glorious. It just ticks every box imaginable. 4 stars.

I think Chris Harrison and I are on the same page. I too disagreed with Janeway at several points, and was more sympathetic to Chakotay. To me, approaching the destroyed Borg cubes, and then boarding them, was madness--particularly once they discovered the other species' ship attached. My orders would have been to head at maximum warp in the most perpendicular direction from the whole mess, for a good long while, before even considering colonizing a planet somewhere.

Still a great episode though.

I wish they at least gave 2 minutes to the Doctor discussing why she was so quick to delete him when she treats him like a sentient being that is an equal to humanoids. Under that guise, she is willing to discard that respect and go back to thinking he is nothing more than a computer program and erase him. I found that should have been worthy of a discussion either from the Doctor or Chakotay saying something to her.

As for the Prime Directive.. it is always a mess and not something Trek ever handled very well. It seemed to be applied very randomly depending on what was needed for a particular episode.

Here she wants to travel though thousands of systems that used to be civilizations and were assimilated by the Borg, so she is willing to give the Borg the power to defeat an enemy and continue slaughtering more civilizations. Amazing stuff.

In saying all that; if you put aside the appalling ethics, this is a pretty awesome episode on it's own.

It's been a week or so since I saw this but what's really stuck in my mind, this little moment, if I have remembered it correctly, is when Janeway tells Chakotay she was alone after all. I remember getting kind of ticked on Chakotay's behalf, but it was a great piece of dialogue. It's not even slightly fair, the way she threw that in his face, like his disagreement was 100% personal.

If he actually disagrees, and has reason to disagree, he's, like Jammer said, supposed to tell her. It's part of his job. But I bet it's exactly how Janeway would've felt at the time. She is bitter and upset about her judgment being fundamentally questioned by someone so close to her, so loyal to her, after she conjures up something that really she thinks is brilliant chess and above all else, something she instinctively believes is their ticket. It's just a lousy situation for everyone, her being professionally and ethically challenged by a confidant, him being made to feel like he abandoned his captain and friend in a way, even though he absolutely did not, in any way. That one little moment spelled out the tone of the entire personal conflict perfectly.

I love how the Species 8472 planet destroying ships fired their beam in a manner which basically screamed "DEATH STAR!!!"

Both parts = one of my favorite VOY episodes. Not in the same league as Best of Both Worlds by any stretch of the imagination, but still very good.

15 Borg ships. Let's follow them.. I want to see what they're up to.
Janeway is an idiot who puts her selfish desires ahead of the safety of her crew.

Why is it that the words "We'll keep a transporter lock on you" still inspires anyway confidence in the crew?

Bought the whole DVD Set with all Seasons a few months ago and have reached the final episode of Season 3....i have to say that the acting of Kate as Janeway is superb throughout the show and i always thought that her acting even surpasses picards. She is my favorite captain of all Star Trek shows. And this final season 3 episode is fantastic....i can't wait for seven of nine 😊

Species 8472 had a good intro that just were never followed through sadly

As an intro, this episode served Voyager well, I'd have preferred Ensign Kim to actually die off (gives viewers a bit more stake and hatred for the new villain to kill a core cast member).

The planet killer, "cough" Babylon 5 "cough", was a good piece of imagery to demonstrate the power of these new aliens.

I disagree with Jammer's opinion that the Borg are Star Trek's greatest villains. I honestly find them a bit monotonous, no pun intended, and I think there's a reason they didn't appear on TNG between Best of Both Worlds and I Borg -- roughly two seasons. There's also a reason the makers of First Contact created the Borg Queen to personify the villainy a little better. A disembodied voice threatened to assimilate your individuality may be scary the first time you hear it, but it starts to get dull after a while, and I was almost laughing at it by the second or third time (I didn't count) we heard it in Scorpion Part I.

That being said, I do think the Borg have been utilized in more interesting ways on Voyager than on TNG and even First Contact so far. The idea that Borg drones can recover their individuality, as Chakotay discovered in Unity one season before this one, and the idea in Scorpion that desperation might drive them to negotiate adds some layers to their character. They are less one-note in Voyager so far, opening up some new possible stories.

The key to a great villain, for me, is motive. Sure, the Borg have a scary goal in assimilation, but their motive never develops. For my money, the genetically engineered Khan will always be Trek's greatest villain, as his villain's desire to rule the universe is shaded by his revenge motives and enhanced intellect. And Montalban is just fantastic -- I'll take a real thespian doing Moby Dick on Star Trek any day over someone in a rubber Halloween slasher costume. I also like the Klingons better than the Borg: Cold War villains for sure, but they really developed over time into an intriguing fictional culture.

It feels more ruthless and cold-hearted, but I'm not sure that telling the doctor they'll erase his program if things go wrong is really that different from sending other crew members into extremely dangerous situations where the likelihood of survival is slim to none. It would have been nice though, if instead of threatening to erase him, they just threatened to restore him to an earlier version that didn't contain the information about the weapon. Of course that would have been a lot less dramatic :-)

Watching this again it seems obvious that Species 8472 are based on Babylon 5's "Others" - mainly the Shadows (especially their vessels, overall look, and telepathic nature). The planet killer too. I have to say I didn't really find this worth all the hype. It's entertaining, but there is just way too much laziness. Copying B5 is lazy in itself, but what about contrivances like "I'll try a skeletal lock... It's something I just came up with, but I think it will work". I mean, talk about convenient, lazy writing. How can any writer write that line with a straight face?

There are numerous examples of bad writing and poor science here, such as the idea that more DNA = more sophisticated/smarter. It doesn't work that way, folks. Dogs have a comparable number of base pairs to humans, and also have far more chromosomes. The flower, Paris japonica, has 50 times more DNA than we do.

Who do they hire as a science consultant for these shows? Or do they just not care?

@ DLPB,

They did not care. Braga and Berman were the forerunners of the J.J. Abrams school of producing, where keeping the action and pace going is paramount, detail doesn't matter, and as long as it looks slick the audience will eat it up.

Sadly, I think you're right. I also think they're rather dumb when it comes to science, and can't be bothered with facts or research.

Loved this episode - great review from Jammer. It did have a BoBW feel to it although it is not quite as good (BoBW is among the very best Trek episodes among all series for me).
I do feel VOY needed a good action episode with a threatening alien. The introduction to Borg space already adds a great dimension to VOY. Really can't go wrong with the Borg who are the best villains in Star Trek.
Many reasons to love this episode: the vibrant and sensible discussions between Janeway/Chakotay -- especially the last one about Janeway's plan where both had logical arguments. This was well planned out and written.
The medi-babble worked well for me. The idea of a solution to share with the Borg, negotiating with the Borg (deal with the devil) is a very interesting idea as is the medi-babble that represents the solution against 8472.
Plenty of interesting action scenes as Jammer describes -- always chilling when humans go aboard a Borg cube. The musical score was excellent as well. Seeing the Borg cubes blast past Voyager and then seeing them destroyed, seeing the Borg planet destroyed -- plenty of over the top stuff that isn't just for show -- it works with the context of the plot. Also Kes's premonitions were alarming -- seeing the mass of Borg -- all to make 8472 quite the formidable, scary new threat. That much all worked in this one.
Only 2 minor nitpicks that comes to mind -- like many others I think it's ridiculous about locking onto the bone minerals or whatever they did to transport them back. The stuff with Janeway/Da Vinci -- too much time spent on that just to give Janeway the idea to make a deal with the Borg.
For me, yes a VOY episode can get 4 stars. This one deserves it for sure. Really look forward to Part II, though I have to expect the Borg to not fulfill their word as per Chakotay's excellent scorpion analogy.

Watching this again reminded me how utterly gobsmacked I was at Janeway's betrayal of Federation values, the Prime Directive and all sense. Chakotay was bang on: her decision to help the Borg was utterly unprincipled and I would add cowardly. She did it because she did not want to have to give the order to turn around and take true responsibility for the other bad decision she made in Caretaker.

She knew almost nothing about Species 8472 apart from some stray telepathic transmissions Kes picked up that, for all we know, could have been coming from 8472 jarheads or religious fanatics. She had zero idea even how the war started. Yet she was willing to help the Borg (a race who just a couple days before she was describing as "evil") assimilate them?

Hey Janeway, what happens when the Borg get planet killers on top of their existing arsenal?

This is the most unambiguously wrong choice a starfleet captain has ever made in a Trek series to date.

Holy Prime Directive Captain.

Yeah Jason, I'm sure the Borg would have just let Voyager go about it's business in the DQ. Nothing to see here Borgies.... move right along.

This might be the best teaser in all of Star Trek.

4 stars!

After an AWFUL third season and the underwhelming Borg episode "Unity" I was finally looking FOREWARD to a VOY episode. I had hoped Scorpion would have done for VOY what The Best of Both Workds did for TNG. Unfortunately wasn't to be the case but that doesn't take anything away from this episode

It and Caretaker in my opinion are the best Episodes of Voyager

I'm glad the producers decided to jettison the planned season finale and went with this. Years later I learned that Unity was to be it as far as Borg stories on VOY but thankfully Brannon disagreed and thanks to the line image of dead Borg springing to life we got Scorpion

As to be expected from a Brannon Braga script we get all details incorporated. Here with the crew entering finally Borg space it made great deal sense for crew to make preparations and I loved the mention that they were stockpiling food, prepping their weapons systems(from TNG Borg encounters with rotating modulation), sending out a probe ahead of them and the Doctor working on essentially a Borg vaccine--which although not said explicitly in this episode could have possibly been achieved with some experimenting on 8472 cells so that would maintain ability to wipe out nanoprobes without killing the patient. When Janeway habds that over to the Borg with thenanoprobe modifications that was lost

The teaser was perfect capturing what the episode was going to center around.

The crew's first encounter with the Borg via the Armada was exciting. I was invested in seeing the crew's reactions to first entering Borg space and second to discovering that the Borg were in a conflict with a race more powerful than the Collective. Harry's reaction that this someone might be able to be an ally was reasonable at first blush.

The away team boarding the damaged cube was edge of seat stuff--seeing damaged Borh, seeing them unflinched--despite having just been devastated--continuing with their duties and directives

The bio ship was nicely done as far as interior production

Kim being attacked by the alien was good. I was hoping it would pave the way for his exit from the series--being a uselessly annoying character--at the same time adding some jeopardy and weight to the episode events

The da Vinci scenes felt like padding and halted the episode momentum I was sooooo ready to get back to the other proceedings. And the other issue that nagged a bit at me was the change in Borg to where they aren't capable of investigating or studying something and adapting--instead it was tweaked here that Borg only know what they assimilate which works here for this particularly story both fitting with the theme of human ingenuity via the da Vinci plot and for giving Voyager a bargaining chip but it still rankles but I could eventually get over it. And along similiar lines, while in THIS episode The recent idea thanks to FIRST CONTACT of Borg assimilation utilizing nanoprobes works, ultimately in long run not a fan. Much preferred the surgical assimilation from TNG series

The Borg were thankfully back to being a Collective mind with no emotional femme fatale standard villainess queen.

The episode was terrifying. All sides of the debate were thankfully dramatized on screen rather than offscreen the way so many of today's programs unfortunately do--from idea of how long Borg would keep up the deal to Janeway's counterargument that being in a bind may allow Borg be open to this when other under circumstances they wouldn't to idea once 8472 gets done annihilating the Borg they would turn to purging all other life including the Federation and not wanting to pass on this opportunity to stop the aliens while safely moving through Borg space and having the Collective protect Voyager from 8472

And the back n forth didn't end there. Lots of good stuff on the cube once Janeway aboard with her give and take with the Collective--once again both sides making sensible realistic arguments from janeway acknowledging were she to habd over her data there'd be nothing stopping Borg assimilating the crew but then the Borg point out that by time they crossed Borg territory Species 8472 might have defeated the Borg etc etc

The epic assault on the Borg planet was thrilling. Oh and back to Vrannon's wonderful little details--Janeway telling Paris set course for nearest Borg vessel--they shouldn't be difficult to find----well of course They're in Borg space Borg will be everywhere and makes sense there would also be entire Borg planets and colonies

Overall Excellent

PS. I also appreciated the callback to Borg events from TNG as Jabeway reviewed Captains logs of those who encountered the Collective

I find my enjoyment of this episode is diminished a bit by the memory of the next meeting with this species, where they pretend to be humans and are reasonable beings open to negotiation. It reduces some of the menace, and makes Janeway seem retroactively even more insane.

They put all the data about the nanoprobe virus into the Doc's holomatrix, so that if the Borg threaten them Janeway will delete him. Why not just keep the data where it is and delete the data and his knowledge of it If they need to? Why put it all into the Doc and then kill him? Makes no sense.

I agree with Chakotay, they should have just turned around and found a different way home. What Janeway decided was essentially insane. Of course it worked out in the end, because you know, plot, but to even consider it was irrational. There was about a 99% chance that they would all die, either from the Borg or 8472. Not to mention Kes' visions which were all pretty accurate, and which they usually respect as true, who says that they are all going to die. Worst captain ever.

3 stars.

Some kind of an episode...

Really, though I don't quite think it deserves four stars, this an almost Lazarus like performance from the Voyager team, after such a horrid clutch of episodes from mid season. The Borg would eventually be neutered by this series, but for now they're still effective, there's a new villain on the block, and the stage is set for the resurgent season 4, before VOY gets turned into the Seven of Nine Show featuring The Doctor.

And... I'm calling this an unofficial record, because I'm going to try to stop counting, but in this episode (largely in the first half) we get...

Some type of protective shielding
Some sort of premonitions
Some kind of subspace turbulence
Some kind of starfleet protocol
Some sort of bio-readings
A warp propulsion system of some kind
A ship of some kind
Some kind of a weapon
Some sort of parallel universe
and Harry gets 'transformed in some way'

Wow. Good stuff. Loved the Chakotay - Janeway stuff in particular.

When Voyager is firing on all cylinders it's the best of the best.

Compelling, vibrant, original, well acted by all.

The Leonardo stuff just flowed right in . . . and the loneliness of the Delta quadrant pervades the episode in an effective way, paired with Janeway's own loneliness.

Good stuff.

Near the beginning when the 15 Borg cubes approach Voyager, Ensign Kim says they're 2.1 lightyears away. They then immediately show up on-screen right behind Voyager and pass them, despite being at impulse speed. Full impulse is apparently anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 light speed, so if they were 2.1 lightyears away, it should've taken the cubes anywhere from 4.2 to 8.4 YEARS to reach Voyager. Even at warp 9 it would take about half a day to travel that distance. Oops.

I am watching every episode for the first time. I don't enjoy this one as much as the other people commenting here. It needed more subtle moments. There were a couple, but for the most part it was like BOOM the Borg are here. Boom, they have an enemy. Boom, space battle. It needed to slow down to explore its ideas.

I agree with Jason above. Janeway’s decision to bargain with the Borg to defeat 8472 is unambiguously wrong and immoral. It’s an incredibly convenient and self serving. There’s absolutely no valid reason to believe Kes‘s hysteria about 8472 killing everything is correct.

Knowing the Borg—- and Starfleet/Janeway do—- the logical assumption is the Borg started the war with 8472... and this it later found to be the truth!

I shudder to think of the reputation Voyager left behind in the Delta Quadrant. I would expect it so bad that most of quietly created an anti-Federation alliance.

I might add Silly it's anti Trek. How many times has the series dealt with the idea that one should never prejudge a species or a situation by a few stray encounters - Arena, Devil in the Dark, Encounter at Farpoint... it is practically the central thesis of the Trek ethos not to make snap judgments and to preserve life, even at the cost of the ship's own destruction. It goes beyond even the Prime Directive!

And then there's Janeway who picks up a few garbled messages via a 6 year old telepath and suddenly it's Hee Ha let's help the Borg blow them up / assimilate them. How convenient it gets you home in the process Janeway. How convenient.

I'd accuse the writers of betraying these values by arbitrarily making 8472 every bit the genocidal maniacs Kes made them out to be, except that Chacotay figures out what's up almost immediately. He's 100% right. And yet..... there is no consequence to any of this. They just move on. It's like Sisko poisoning a planet all over again, except multiplied by about 1,000.

Poor Arcturis. That guy wasn't nearly angry enough. He should have arrested Janeway, slipstreamed to earth and testified at Janeway's court martial. Then gotten her assimilated.

@Silly
>I shudder to think of the reputation Voyager left behind in the Delta Quadrant. I would expect it so bad that most of quietly created an anti-Federation alliance.

Watch the Voyager episode “Living Witness”, it shows a future Delta Quadrant species who think voyager was a warship.

@15:30 Janeway orders the ship towards the defeated Borg ships at only warp 2, why so slow? I look past this issue in early TOS because the show was still finding it's footing but this is Voyager.

Chakotay points out that they would be helping the Borg assimilate another species just so Voyager can get home which he finds morally wrong. I thought that was a really good point. Is this Janeway's equivalent of Sisko poisoning a planet or deceptively dragging the Romulans in to the Dominion war?

Seven says she was assimilated 18 years ago. I thought the Federation hadn't met the Borg that long ago?

Over all score: 8/10.

Love this episode. The action sequences are handled well, and I think its a cool idea to create an ultimate enemy for the borg. One of my favorites of all Trek.

At the beginning, John Rhys-Davies exclaims "Che cazzo" in Italian (What the fuck). Would that be the first occurrence of swearing on ST?

"At the beginning, John Rhys-Davies exclaims "Che cazzo" in Italian (What the fuck). Would that be the first occurrence of swearing on ST?"

On TV perhaps, but not if you count the movies. Picard and Riker did some Klingon and Romulan swearing on TNG, not to mention the Klingons and Romulans themselves, but we we have no idea what those swears were. Data did give us a full frontal "oh shit" in Generations.

Picard says “merde” a few times early in TNG, back when they were making some attempts to present the character as French.

"Picard says “merde” a few times early in TNG, back when they were making some attempts to present the character as French."

Interesting. I see it in the transcripts of "The Last Outpost" and "Elementary, Dear Data." It never registered in my brain in either of those cases.

If a Hornet flew up and stung you and then continued to buzz around you menacingly, you’d try to kill it without hesitation. If a second hornet began buzzing around you at the same time, you’d most likely try to kill that one as well, even if it wasn’t actually threatening you. Our ability to discern differing motivations between individual creatures as different or alien if you will as insects is extremely limited. We might simply attack all if threatened or harmed by one.

This illustrates what I wish they had done with species 8472. Rather than just make them broadly hostile and malevolent, it would have been more interesting to keep their characterization vague. Make their hostility at least possibly due to they’re being so alien that they simply don’t see any meaningful difference between voyager and the Borg. All they see is weird bipedal, technologically dependent creatures, much the way we might just see two hornets buzzing around.

That would have given a stronger basis for janeway’s dilemma, because she’d have to entertain the possibility that species 8472 is the injured party and might have motivations beyond just the simple “I WILL KILL YOU!”. I mean, if you have to choose between the devil and the super devil, the choice is pretty easy.

Also, it’s a missed opportunity to have them come from another dimension. Have them come from a system orbiting Sagittarius A* at the center of the galaxy or some such crazy environment. Another dimension just feels lazy to me.

Otherwise, this is pretty outstanding Trek. Definitely the best voyager has offered so far.

I remember this episode. I always thought 8472 was VERY well designed-not just the CGI alien, but the concept-a race that can wipe the floor with the Borg! WOW! But Janeway's decision here seems extremely unwise. The Borg will lie to get what they want, defeat 8472, and then assimilate Voyager at their ease! Anyone would know they can't be trusted!

I understand that at this point 8472 seems like a bunch of murdering wackos, but I can't see Janeway's reasoning either.

That said, I like the episode-I just don't like Janeway's decisions.

@ldh2023 Hello again! Well, I can see part of what you said, but as far as their origins, I don't think it is lazy writing. The Borg must have seen the entire Delta Quadrant (if they can keep sending ships into the Alpha Quadrant, they must know the territory closer to home), so if they came from somewhere in our dimension in their Quadrant, I would think the Borg would have encountered them by now

(That said, I wonder if the Borg are aware of the Dinosaur people. If not, I still don't see that as a plot mistake since we really don't know how far away and in what direction they are from-remember, they have transwarp too, and the scientist actually sought out Voyager and then was followed by a city-ship. They could be tens of thousands of light years away in another direction)

I think what I was getting at(it’s been a while since I watched this episode) is that I find it annoying that 8472 was painted as implacably villainous so quickly. I don’t recall much effort to find common ground with them on janeway’s part, which I find odd since the Borg are quintessentially implacable. So some sort of reasoning as to why 8472 can’t be reasoned with, like maybe they’re just too alien to even be able to see a distinction between the Borg and voyager, would have tied this story together better.
If janeway’s decision had been presented as a blunder, either here or in later episodes, it’d work. But as is typical of voyager there are very few larger ramifications going forward, so it all felt a bit lazy, if that’s the right word.

@ldh2023: I understand your point, but I think it simply was one too many concepts, either for the writers or for the time available (the latter of which might have been solved by dumping the Da Vinci scenes). I assume the former, so it comes down to:
(1) We need to get through Borg space.
(2) We need to offer them something so they'll allow us.
(3) They sure could use some help defeating their enemy.
(4) Therefore, their enemy is our enemy.
QED.

I think this episode is brilliant for a couple of reasons — it comes up with Species 8472 which are like the Borg to the Borg we’ve all come to know. And that does a couple of things: It puts the Borg on its heels and forces it to think outside its box (cooperate with another species). And this leads to the disagreement between Janeway and Chakotay which I found extremely compelling since one can imagine pros and cons for each side.

Also, by this time the Borg were no longer implacable. They had some added dimensions from “I Borg” and “Descent” and so we needed a true implacable villain to be established up front to set the 2 things I just mentioned in motion. VOY needed a kick in the ass and “Scorpion” did just that (along with 7 of 9).

It’s also cool that the 8472 are these CGI aliens and not costumed humans, which adds to the alien-ness of the new threat. I think to spend time at this stage on fleshing them out would be a distraction to the story “Scorpion” wants to tell. The 8472 get fleshed out very well in “In the Flesh” as well as the ramifications of Janeway’s decision (touched on also in “Hope and Fear”).

BTW, I think this is VOYs’ finest hour — and by a decent margin.

@Idh2023

I hear what you are saying, but I think the reason Janeway automatically assumed that they were beyond reasoning with is because Kes (a trusted companion) felt them basically just saying "We will kill you all" If that is the chant of the enemy, it is reasonable to assume that nothing you say will change that. (And I think they did show remorse and change their tune (Janeway and Voyager I mean) when they talked to the 8472's pretending to be Starfleet Academy)

Kes was definitely a reason, possibly the main reason, behind janeway’s decisions, no question. But is kes really a competent source for info here? She’s essentially a child who had just begun to explore her psychic abilities communicating with a wounded soldier in the battleground of a wrecked Borg cube. Seems like a situation in which jumping to conclusions is a command failure.

I'm heartened to see other folks in the thread pointing out the sheer insanity of relying on Kes -- a young woman who has no training in first contact scenarios, any relevant education/experience, and whom can barely control her telepathic gifts -- to determine the motives of 8472.

Picard wouldn't have made that determination based solely on Troi's interpretation and she was actually a trained Starfleet Officer with extensive experience in first contact scenarios. I doubt Kirk would make the determination based solely on a Spock mind-meld either.

The only hostility they show towards Voyager PRIOR to the alliance with the Borg is a half-hearted attempt at shooting at them when Voyager wanders into an active combat zone. They can one-shot destroy Borg cubes and yet Voyager survives the "attack." They don't try to chase the ship after it flees. That could be a hotshot 8472 pilot shooting at an unknown contact in a war zone while command screams "WEAPONS HOLD" in his ear.

They later show no hostility towards Voyager when it finds their fleet in the Northwest Passage. They make an attempt at communicating through Kes, then completely ignore the ship they could destroy with minimum effort. Kes concludes "They intend on destroying everything" and Janeway just accepts it even though they make no effort to destroy Voyager.

Janeway then declares war on a newly discovered species of frightening power on behalf of the entire Federation. She doesn't bother to figure out who started the Borg/8472 war before she throws her lot in with the Federation's mortal enemy.

As Chakotay literally screams, "IT'S WRONG!"

"The only hostility they show towards Voyager PRIOR to the alliance with the Borg is a half-hearted attempt at shooting at them when Voyager wanders into an active combat zone."

Correction: when Voyager personnel "wander" right onto the Bioship's bridge.

I forgot about that part Jason.

Voyager crew basically invades one of 8472's ships and they still don't treat Voyager as hostile (no action taken against them in the NW Passage) until they ally themselves with the Borg.

There's one species in this episode that can't be reasoned with and will wipe out all life in the Milky Way if given the chance. Spoiler: It's not 8472.

//As for the Borg and Species 8675309 being hell bent on destruction: even if that is true, it's moot. Voyager is in no direct danger. They can choose to avoid the conflict. And at this point, we know nothing about Species 25 Or 6 To 4. They might be really nice, and just defending themselves against a Borg attack.//

No direct danger? Species 8472 was attacking Voyager!! When Voyager visited the Borg cube, Species 8472 fired on Voyager. "The weak will perish". The Prime Directive? When you are being attacked by aliens, you are ALREADY involved!!

The difference between Troi and Kes is that Kes is actually telepathic. Troi is empathic. There is a difference.

//Voyager crew basically invades one of 8472's ships//

Invasion? Really? Being curious, scanning the bioship. That is not an invasion.

SPOILERS
This was based on this episode alone (my previous thoughts)
However looking ahead, we see that Janeway will make peace with Species 8472. In the episode IN THE FLESH.

@ Eric "No direct danger? Species 8472 was attacking Voyager!! When Voyager visited the Borg cube, Species 8472 fired on Voyager."

Voyager wandered into an active war zone and got shot at. Shocker!

8472 did not pursue when they fled. They didn't one-shot kill Voyager as they're shown to be able to do with Borg cubes.

I've always interpreted that scene as a hot shot 8472 pilot taking a shot at a target he had not yet identified and getting called off by his higher command.

Point to some proactive aggression against Voyager BEFORE Janeway allies herself with their mortal enemy.

"The weak will perish"

The interpretation of a young woman with no formal training in first contact or mastery over her telepathic gifts is sufficient to declare war on behalf of the entire Federation?

That's like taking someone who spent a few weeks practicing Russian on Duolingo and asking them to translate during a phone call between the US and Russian Presidents.

"That's like taking someone who spent a few weeks practicing Russian on Duolingo and asking them to translate during a phone call between the US and Russian Presidents."

That, and if you assume 8472 have emotions, you might well assume a full-on Borg invasion of their space might well be met with a reaction like "die weak life forms!!!" and come out shooting at anything that moves. "The weak will perish" might be nothing more than a battle cry, telling the Borg they're toast. Sure, they do mention something like the intent to wipe out absolutely everything, but then again for all they know the Borg *is* everything. They haven't exactly been out and chatting with the various DQ races.

This is all fine, but even when the show first aired I found it hard to believe that the crew passively went along so easily with Janeway's plan. It's not 100% clear-cut what to do in this situation, but Chakotay's warnings seem at minimum prudent and are eventually proven correct. That would also be fine if there were any consequences of so monumental an error, but the show's MO seems to be that Janeway is by definition right about everything.

I re-evaluated a lot of my past criticisms of Janeway, e.g., Tuvix, but it's going to be very hard for me to do that when we catch up to Scorpion.

I chalk it up to bad writing, the show-runners wanting a Big Bad™ and not thinking it through clearly. If you take it seriously, it's extremely difficult to argue for any outcome other than Chakotay throwing her in the brig until they get home, whereupon she's immediately court martialed.

On the bright side, at least she's got Paris on hand to give her tips on maximizing the Federation penal experience. ;-)

It's swept under the rug (again, bad writing) but consider that 8472's takeaway from this episode is the Federation is now their mortal enemy. Janeway literally declares war on behalf of countless billions of Federation citizens, against a technologically superior species with whom the Federation has no quarrel.

To steal a quote from Picard, "The sheer fucking hubris."

There’s also the flip side to this Janeway smash fest, which is that she went out of her way to help the Borg. Does anyone think the Borg will remember this assist with gratitude and give up their mission of total universal domination? Aw heck naahhh! They’ll come assimilatin’ the first chance they get, armed with new, shiny, fluidic weapons as the cherry on top.

I totally agree that the real problem here is the writing and lack of consequences. I understand the conundrum the episode is trying to lay out (the enemy of my enemy, a rock and a hard place, lesser of two evils, etc..) but the execution and lack of fallout really neutralizes any great story potential.

The Borg as portrayed in TNG/VOY make a terrible candidate for a "lesser of two evils" story.

8472 only appears in Voyager three times. Two of those portrayals are sympathetic. One is downright sad and unless you're a total psychopath you'll feel empathy for the 8472 therein.

Nothing -- not even in Scorpion -- suggests they're so evil as to justify giving the Borg the means to kill/assimilate them all. Voyager never even tries to talk to them.

It's funny because if you've seen the episode you realize the title almost literally says "they will betray you!" It flat out tells you the outcome of the episode. So much for the 'debate' between Janeway and Chakotay.

It's like the show's producers wanted us to hate Janeway and Archer, or something. Really bizarre writing for both series' leads at times.

Having your "heroic" characters make morally repugnant decisions is bad enough, but so many times the decisions are just plain dumb. It's not a moral dilemma, it's twisting your main character into a pretzel to create cheap drama.

You guys are forgetting the most important reason why Janeway's choice is morally reprehensible - it's done for entirely self serving reasons.

Listen to Chacotay's Scorpion speech: he practically tells her she's a coward who won't take responsibility for the choice she made in Caretaker. She's not making a deal with the Borg to protect the galaxy; she's doing it to help her little ship get home as atonement for her own mistakes. Except the entire Galaxy ends up paying the price as we see later in Hope and Fear through the poor Arcturis character.

I never cease the marvel at writing that basically tells us flat out how badly the lead character is acting, spells it out for us and then just.... let's her off the hook because she's the Captain and she's awesome. It's like a moral equivalent of Chekov's gun. I really truly want to know what the writers were thinking with this.

@ Jason R. "I really truly want to know what the writers were thinking with this."

They weren't thinking. That's the problem. I find it hard to believe there was a conscious intent to make Janeway into a morally reprehensible character. The Janeway that I've seen -- and been pleasantly surprised by -- in Seasons 1 through 3.5 has not been written or acted that way.

There's definitely an "I'm all alone, the buck stops with me, I have to make this right" vibe to the character but nothing morally reprehensible. Hell, a few episodes after this one she's ready to die in the defense of a random 8472.

I read in one of the earlier comments that there was a different season ending scripted. I'd love to see an outline of that script and know just how rushed Scorpion was.

The two episodes I'm most anxious to see, vis-a-vis Janeway, are this one and Equinox.

"The two episodes I'm most anxious to see, vis-a-vis Janeway, are this one and Equinox."

Equinox is an interesting comparison to Scorpion because (without spoiling anything) I'd suggest that in retrospect her decisions in Scorpion make her more alike than different from Captain Ransom.

I've already seen it, so you won't spoil it for me. I just haven't seen it through my now 40 something year old eyes. Most of my Voyager memories come from the original airing or random re-runs in the early oughts. I never proactively re-watched any of it, as I've done (more times than I can count) with TNG.

Rewatching Seasons 1 through 3.5, I definitely missed a bunch of episodes. Many are filler but a few have wildly changed my perception of the show. Resolutions was one of these and really puts a different context to Janeway and Chakotay's arguments in Scorpion, Equinox, and other episodes. Jammer criminally underrated that particular episode, IMHO.

I also see what they were going for with Janeway. I was somewhat pleasantly surprised to find myself liking her more than I expected, both the fictional character and Kate Mulgrew. It's too early to say for sure, but my current gut feeling is I'm going to finish the show with extreme disappointment for the show-runners/writing staff, because ultimately, I think it's the inconsistencies that end up dragging the character down.

"I also see what they were going for with Janeway. I was somewhat pleasantly surprised to find myself liking her more than I expected, both the fictional character and Kate Mulgrew. It's too early to say for sure, but my current gut feeling is I'm going to finish the show with extreme disappointment for the show-runners/writing staff, because ultimately, I think it's the inconsistencies that end up dragging the character down."

Oh let me say also as a 40 something that while I never cared much for Voyager (even when I saw it in my teens and early twenties) I always placed the blame squarely where it belonged: on the writers. Kate Mulgrew was always just great. Janeway, despite at times inconsistent writing, was worth watching.

And heck, Scorpion is a great episode. It's the only action "event" episode Voyager did that was actually a banger, with other similar attempts (eg: Dark Frontier) either epic fails or decidedly mixed (Was Past Tense the one with Sarah Silverman in LA?)

Over VOY’s run, the Janeway character is written inconsistently and there a handful of episodes that come to mind where she makes poor, reprehensible, dumb decisions — and while some may question her decision to align with the Borg here, I don’t think that is an example of of poor writing. In fact, I think this episode is brilliantly conceived and very well written when it comes to the Janeway/Chakotay disagreement re. aligning with the Borg.

We’ve seen in Trek instances of captains asking for *all* the options, every conceivable option. An option is an option if it is deemed to increase the chances of achieving the ultimate goal ( in this case, VOY getting home). This episode is not a choice about the lesser of two evils as the 8472 cannot be reasoned with (and there is no time to do so). So Janeway’s option of aligning with the Borg has some merit, despite unpredictable consequences for the DQ, not to mention the tremendous risk to her ship. But if the ultimate goal is to reach Earth no matter the consequences, as Janeway believes, then this option is an option. And one would have to believe Janeway is not naive, given Chakotay’s scorpion warnings, and should be prepared to do something to defend against the Borg if the need arises.

So it is a question of understanding a character’s primary motivation and then seeing if they are acting consistently with that in an episode. And for me, here it works for Janeway. But I do think a less obvious title would be preferable — perhaps “Species 8472”?

I’m also reminded of ENT’s “Dear Doctor” where Phlox makes a ghastly decision (backed by Archer eventually) to let evolution take its course and not provide treatment to a slightly more advance race that will soon perish. I say DD is also brilliantly written as Phlox is acting on his beliefs, no matter what I think of them, and he is thus in-character. And this causes the moral Trekkian dilemma.

So I'd say both "Scorpion" and "Dear Doctor" are well-written, well-conceived and stand as among the best episodes of their respective series. Good writing isn't about if one likes the actions a character takes. There may be other / later episodes where the writing is poor given the context and track record created for the character in question.

I have to disagree with that perspective. Janeway was a science officer originally before being a captain, an aspect of her background VOY delves into quite a bit, gathering information and choosing a path forward based on the best data available should be at least somewhat core to her character. Given the situation with species 8472, there are way too many unknowns to make such a massive decision, at least as it’s all presented in the episode.

The obvious and likely catastrophic consequences of destroying one species while stabilizing and potentially arming another notably hostile…umm, species? Organism? Berserk computer program? Not sure how to classify the Borg… clearly counterbalances the need to get back to the AQ. Any Federation officer would see the need for a more prudent approach, but especially an officer with a science background.

This is why my main gripe here is the writing, it’s aiming to contrive a no win scenario at the expense of reasonable character flow. I doubt Janeway would ever make the choices she does here, and if she did I would expect far more pushback than some laid back parable about anthropomorphized wildlife. But that darn reset button…

I should say however, that I like Janeway as a character and VOY as a show overall. It just stings thinking about what could have been if not for what I see as creative sloppiness.

Janeway’s background as a science officer is irrelevant here. She is dealing with a life and death tactical battle situation, not a science experiment. She does not have time to formulate a hypothesis, run some tests, and rinse / repeat without any urgency.

I believe Janeway (albeit briefly) considers the possibility of settling on some planet in the DQ in her frank discussion with Chakotay, but then she also knows that eventually the 8472 will come for her & her crew so something needs to be done to deal with this new threat once and for all.

What I would disagree with is any notion that this episode is poorly written or that the Janeway character is poorly written in it. She is not out-of-character. She previously wanted to align with the Kazon, which came about after some deliberation.

Janeway aligning with the Borg, what Sisko does in ITPM, what Archer does in “Damage”, what Kirk does at the end of “A Private Little War” — to me these are all parts of well-conceived Trek stories. They’re not examples of poor writing because our captains do stuff we wish they didn't have to do.

"Janeway’s background as a science officer is irrelevant here. She is dealing with a life and death tactical battle situation, not a science experiment. She does not have time to formulate a hypothesis, run some tests, and rinse / repeat without any urgency."

Of course she has time. What are you talking about? They were in Borg space for a couple days at most.

The point is explicitly addressed as Chacotay tells Janeway that they can withdraw to other parts of the DQ. Janeway even explicitly mentions the option of retreating to "friendly shores" in her monologue to Leonardo. They could have presumably turned the ship around and left.

The notion that 8472 will eventually get them anywhere they go is also mentioned but based on what? Kes's 3 second telepathic insights? Peter and others already noted this but "the weak will perish" could mean almost anything.

I don't think this situation is remotely comparable to Dear Doctor incidentally. In DD Archer and Phlox simply elected not to intervene in a situation that had nothing to do with them. If Phlox has handed the aliens a biogenic weapon to wipe out the other aliens that might put the two situations in closer proximity.

"Of course she has time. What are you talking about? They were in Borg space for a couple days at most."

So what scientific experiment should Janeway run with during that time?? All they have time to do is secure the ship and prepare for any battle -- that would eat up any time they have.

"The notion that 8472 will eventually get them anywhere they go is also mentioned but based on what?"

Is Janeway to believe the 8472 will wipe out the Borg and then just go back to fluidic space and not snoop around the rest of the DQ? I think she has reason to believe the entire DQ is under attack potentially and that she and her crew would not be safe over the long haul at a minimum.

"In DD Archer and Phlox simply elected not to intervene in a situation that had nothing to do with them. "

Nothing to do with them?? Hardly that simple. Archer, Phlox and others had gotten to know both species, worked with them etc. Maybe watch the episode once more. My point is this episode and DD both have a captain agreeing to something distasteful, but justifiable according to their beliefs given the circumstance.

@Rahul

It sounds like you’re going off of the *intentions* of the episode, while others, myself included, are reacting to the content as presented. If you accept that species 8472 is indeed an intractable, unreasonable, insanely power bunch of dickweed lunatics, then sure, maybe giving the Borg a hand is the best option. But there’s nothing set forth that really justifies that conclusion. Voyager’s interactions with them are pretty brief, conducted in a warzone, and filtered through a novice telepath. There’s the option to retreat, and nothing that species 8472 did to voyager comes close to what is basically a call for genocide, or at least a genocidal allyoop.

There are numerous times throughout trek where the captain makes a bad call or two, usually followed by debate and a walking back from the proverbial cliff. What makes it poor writing here is that the bad call is treated as a good call. It’s sloppy.

@Idh2023,

"If you accept that species 8472 is indeed an intractable, unreasonable, insanely power bunch of dickweed lunatics, then sure, maybe giving the Borg a hand is the best option. But there’s nothing set forth that really justifies that conclusion."

Really?? What about: the 8472 destroying multiple Borg cubes, a Borg planet, sending broad threats, threatening Kes telepathically (why wouldn't Janeway take this seriously), nearly killing Harry Kim... You want to go on a picnic with an 8472?

"What makes it poor writing here is that the bad call is treated as a good call. It’s sloppy."

It is not poor writing and it is not a bad call. It is simply a call at this stage. There is justification and merit to it (as distasteful as it is) as I've previously stated. I don't think it is treated as a good call here either -- it is just the decision taken and it is too early by the end of this 1st part to judge if it was a good call or not.

Again, I can't agree that this is a poorly or sloppily written episode. VOY has plenty of those episodes, but this not one of them. In fact, I think the writing and plotting is terrific. Maybe you should read Jammer's review -- he mentions good/smart writing twice.

@ Jason R. "Kate Mulgrew was always just great. Janeway, despite at times inconsistent writing, was worth watching."

This. It's one of my pleasant surprises re-watching Voyager for the first time. Kate Mulgrew is very likely the 2nd best (after Sir Patrick Stewart) actor to sit in the Captain's Chair. We did a re-watch of DS9 immediately before Voyager, and, wow, no offense to Avery Brooks, but Mulgrew smokes him. He's a solid actor but he's got nowhere near her range, much less Stewart's.

Of the series fresh in my mind, I'd rate 'em:

1. Patrick Stewart
2. Kate Mulgrew
3. Anson Mount
4. Avery Brooks / William Shatner (tied)
5. Sonequa Martin-Green

Leaving out Enterprise, which I haven't seen in decades, and the animated stuff.

@ Idh2023 "It sounds like you’re going off of the *intentions* of the episode, while others, myself included, are reacting to the content as presented."

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

@ Rahul "What about: the 8472 destroying multiple Borg cubes"

Did you watch the same episode we did, where it's revealed the Borg are the ones that started the war?

Was the Enterprise wrong to destroy the cubes in BoBW and First Contact? How about the time they almost genocide the Borg. Was that wrong?

C'mon man.

"Again, I can't agree that this is a poorly or sloppily written episode."

But it is. Janeway's decision making makes no sense in the context of what's actually on screen. It's further undermined by at least two subsequent Voyager episodes, "Hope and Fear" and "In the Flesh."

Voyager's own canon says Janeway made the wrong call here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"What makes it poor writing here is that the bad call is treated as a good call. It’s sloppy."

I never though it was presented as a good call, especially considering Chakotay's objections. Perhaps the least-bad call, but there are consequences to deal with later.

"Janeway's decision making makes no sense in the context of what's actually on screen. It's further undermined by at least two subsequent Voyager episodes, 'Hope and Fear' and 'In the Flesh'

I think what's important to remember is that Janeway isn't actually a very good captain. We're lulled into that assumption based on Kirk and Picard being the cream of the crop, same with Sisko though he does have his flaws. Janeway however is not one of Starfleet's finest, so it's understandable that she'd make irrational, inexplicable, or just plain bad decisions. Even when she is dealing with guilt, she just hides from the crew like in Night, and drags them down with her. I think remembering this is helpful.

"I think what's important to remember is that Janeway isn't actually a very good captain."


I wish the writers were intentionally going for that with her and Archer, but I don't think that was the case. There's just not much (if any) introspection or culpability from either of the characters when they do something boneheaded or immoral.

I suppose what I mean when I say “good call” is that the decision to assist the Borg is treated as a viable option through any lack of real debate. As I see it, handing the Borg the tools to defeat species 8472 is the only option that should be completely *off* the table based on what the episode sets forth for us. Sure, Chakotay pulls Janeway aside to tell her a quaint story, the gist of which incidentally is really more about how trusting the Borg might backfire for Voyager specifically rather than pointing out how destroying the galaxy might be a bit of a problem, but the prospect of arming the Borg with fluidic weaponry, the moral implications of destroying a largely unknown and wronged civilization, the moral implications at the thought of all the people who will certainly be assimilated in the future, and an unauthorized declaration of war on behalf of the entire Federation, maybe even the entire galaxy, all for the somewhat dubious motivation of getting one ship home, really should warrant a more vociferous outcry from a substantial part of the crew. The absence of which makes Janeway’s call seem like it’s accepted and ostensibly supported by those onboard Voyager.

The episode’s central issue wasn’t framed well, the dilemma was undercooked, and Janeway was artificially insulated from what should have been disastrous in-universe consequences to her reputation as captain.

@ Jeffrey Jakucyk "I think what's important to remember is that Janeway isn't actually a very good captain."

She has her moments but they're undermined by the combination of bad writing and Reset Button™. One of my favorite Janeway moments was confronting the Vidiians who stole Neelix's lungs:

"Take a message to your people. If I ever encounter your kind again, I will do whatever is necessary to protect my people from this harvesting of yours. Any aggressive actions against this ship or its crew will be met by the deadliest force."

The way Mulgrew deliveries that line is absolutely chilling. I'm not sure Sir Patrick Stewart could have delivered it better.

Too bad that "deadliest of force" is never once employed against the Vidiians. The writers either forgot about it or just hand-waved it away to service the Plot Gods in subsequent episodes.

If they were being honest to the character they were TRYING to create, Voyager would have fired on sight -- phasers on full -- every time a Vidiian ship came into sensor range.

That's what Kirk, Sisko, and even Picard would have done, and it's what Season 1 Janeway threatened to do, but the writers did the character and actress dirty.

"The episode’s central issue wasn’t framed well, the dilemma was undercooked, and Janeway was artificially insulated from what should have been disastrous in-universe consequences to her reputation as captain."

The same issue came up a few episodes previous in the underrated "Unity" where Janeway rejects the ex Borg plans to reassimilate the other freed Borg refugees not because it is ghastly to steal their regained individuality and force them into a collective, no why would that be a problem? Instead it's just over concerns they might revive the derelict Borg cube which could pose a threat to Voyager. Naturally.

That's in essence what the trouble with Janeway is: the writing doesn't understand the moral implications of what she does and by implications, neither does she (or anyone else)

@Jason R.
>Was Past Tense the one with Sarah Silverman in LA?)

No, the Sarah Silverman episode was Future's End - Series 3 of Voyager, Past Tense was a DS9 episode.

"@Jason R.
>Was Past Tense the one with Sarah Silverman in LA?)

No, the Sarah Silverman episode was Future's End - Series 3 of Voyager, Past Tense was a DS9 episode."

Right right I remember now.

Only so many generic titles for time travel episodes to go around. At some point they will run out.

" underrated "Unity""

"Unity" underrated?? Rubbish.

Think it's fair to say this is one of VOY's most highly rated episodes. It's a top-10 VOY episode for me (3.5*), IMDb rates it 7/8/10 with 2.2K votes, Jammer rates it 3.5*.

Rahul wrong choice of words on my part. What I should have said was it was unique as the only Borg canon to ever imply that assimilation and collective consciousness could be anything but a horror show. It is basically an origin story for the Borg. Naturally nothing it innovated was ever touched on again and the Borg went onto become slaves to a leather clad bondage Queen.

Tim,

I’m amused that I (a Janeway/Mulgrew fan) actually find her speech against the Vidiians one of her most unwatchable moments. I hate the delivery and the over-the-top emotion.

I also dont agree that any Starfleet captain would have fired on sight at Vidiian ships after meeting exactly two Vidiians. Not sure if you were joking there.

Jason,

Actually the early Seven episodes showed that drones love being drones. Seven was decidedly not happy to be “freed”.

Later in (I think) “Drone”, she comments that the lire of perfection would be very attractive to One, perhaps luring him to choose the Borg over individuality.

In the Omega particle episode, it was implied that the Borg experience excitement, desire, and shared spiritual passion. This is actually the powerful enjoyable feeling that drives humans to invent/join religions (or to fall in love) - psychic ecstasy, merging with the whole, losing one’s angsty loneliness.

(In light of the above, I was annoyed/baffled by Seven’s statements at the end of the three-drones-seek-individuality episode. Now an individual, she seemed to have forgotten that she’d felt thoroughly fulfilled within the collective.).

@Jason R.

I think there are some very worthy ideas in "Unity" that lead to a VOY theme of what happens to Borg when they somehow get disconnected from the collective or are able to revert to some degree to their former selves.

Now maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit here, but for me it would seem that these good "Unity" ideas would not go to waste and warrant further usage in different forms.

So I think "Unity" could have led to episodes like "Survival Instinct", "Collective" and maybe even "Unimatrix Zero" -- all regarding individualistic tendencies developing among very small subsets of Borg. And of course VOY's primary focus starting in S4 seemed to become 7 of 9 becoming an individual again.

So maybe all is not totally lost after being assimilated, though the chances are microscopic.

@Tara I think what we can deduce from the various episodes is that:

1. Assimilation is a horrific trauma and horror (eg: Picard in BOBW);
2. Once assimilated, and especially over a long period of time (eg: Seven spending her entire life in the collective) drones become dependent on the hive (eg: Hue's loneliness) but this is not quite the same as saying they "enjoy" it merely that since it is all they have, they feel pain in it's absence;

Regarding the Omega Effect I can't accept that Seven had some kind of spiritual idea as a drone. More likely it was her experience as a drone filtered through her newly rediscovered humanity that gave her such a feeling.

And the Voyager era canon post Unity pretty much made everything about assimilation a horror. I mean on top of what we saw in First Contact what with crewmen begging for death versus assimilation, we had Dark Frontier with the assimilation of an entire race as unmitigated atrocity. Except in Voyager they pretty much did away with collective consciousness and decided that the Borg were basically slaves to an evil dictator Queen. Unimatrix Zero certainly reinforced that - note the drones in UM0 were aberrations not the norm. That shared Matrix / virtual reality was an escape from the horror of the collective.

But in Unity they are not sticking tubules into people's necks making their skin turn grey or cutting off limbs or any of the H Geigerish body horror crap with machine implants popping out of people's sculls. It's simply a concept that sharing consciousness with other could be beneficial, pleasurable and yes addictive. And therein lies the origin story: maybe at first it was voluntary but over time as the collective erased individuality there arise a compulsion to continue adding more and more to the collective, to keep that "feeling" going like an addiction. And when they ran out of volunteers they started taking what they needed by force. It actually makes intuitive sense.

@Jason

1. We didnt see Picard get physically traumatized in BOBW. (He was just suddenly… Locutus!) His trauma was psychological. The body-horror stuff was depicted more in VOY.

2. I dont know why you cant believe the Borg had a collective spiritual attachment to the Omega particle, since Seven described their pursuit of it existing over eons - and we know they had a spiritual pursuit of perfection (which Seven retained even as an individual) and a sense of wanting “greatness” and disliking “small minds” - IOW they had desire and a yearning for certain ideals and were not just slavish killing machines. Seven as a human was not at all religious. It was clear her yearning to see the Omega particle was due to her Borg-taught spirituality.

I think VOY showed not that assimilation was the worst possible fate, but that a collective and individuality both have upsides and downsides.

Consider: The crew frequently talks about the wonder of being family to each other, which Seven expresses as “This crew is now my collective.”.

OTOH the loner genius in “The Good Shepherd” gets criticized/questioned for being too much a loner and not joining the ship’s collective.

There’s a running theme of collectives - even the Borg collective - being both magnificent and comforting for those within it, and of community being wonderful, and also of aloneness (the price of individuality) being painful. EG: Two separate lonely alien women seek love w Tuvok. Even the evil Fear Clown expresses fear of being left alone. Janeway’s loneliness (due to her inability to date or be equals with her crew) comes up in several episodes.

Aside: Not all human communities are like mainstream modern America (individualistic). Plenty train their members that coerced conformity matters more than individual goals - the tribe should be put first; fitting in is better than standing out, sacrifice your own wants in order to follow custom; and you should kill yourself or banish yourself if you transgress against community morals and bring shame on yourself; etc.

(For girls/women especially, a life of self-abnegation and lifelong obedient servitude “for the good of the community” is the rule in most traditional societies - most girls around the world still live under the rules of “Dress as you’re told, live as you’re told and serve as you’re told, if you don’t want to be beaten, called a whore, or considered a despised and unmarriageable outcast.” In return for sacrificing all individual wants, they are permitted to stay in the Collective and receive protection and social acceptability. And most do indeed choose that life of slavery over running away to be lonely, free, unprotected and struggling Individuals. Even for males, plenty of traditional societies put stringent limits on individuality: Stay in the religion, marry the person chosen for you, suppress your artistic or gay or flamboyant side, be a farmer like your father, etc. I have even heard that North Koreans who flee to South Korea often eventually return to NK - preferring to be a drone for Dear Leader than a free lonely struggling person in SK.)

I think what VOY really showed is that people prize whatever they’re used to and fear/hate to lose it and be dragged into the unknown. The show’s individuals were terrified of assimilation, while Seven was terrified of individuality. By the same token, you and I are afraid to lose our lives and cross into the unseen land of death, whereas dead people are all (it is well-known) terrified at the prospect of being suddenly revivified and having to walk the earth, pay rent, and endure dating and traffic jams.

@ Tara "I also dont agree that any Starfleet captain would have fired on sight at Vidiian ships after meeting exactly two Vidiians. Not sure if you were joking there."

I'm absolutely not joking. They establish, in the initial meeting, that they are willing to murder us on sight if they believe it will advance their goals. This attitude is continued in every subsequent meeting, with the sole exception of the Doctor's romantic interest (like the Borg, the Vidiians are almost normal on a one-on-one basis, but when in their collective state.....)

The only thing to do with people that have expressed a desire to kill you is to respond with "the deadliest of force."

Check out the comments on "Faces": https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-voy/s1/faces.php

People are incredulous that Voyager:

1. Left all the other aliens behind to rot as Vidiian slaves/organ factories.
2. Didn't blow up the entire facility before leaving.

Given Janeway's warning in the earlier episode and the actions against her crew (including the murder of one) in "Faces," I think she would have been well within her legal and moral rights to wipe that facility off the face of the planet.

"I hate the delivery and the over-the-top emotion."

I loved both. The over-the-top emotion is exactly what that situation calls for. Janeway delivers "over-the-top" emotion with a speech, as would Picard. Sisko would likely have punched the Vidiian in the face. All are understandable reactions given the circumstance.

@ Tara "We didnt see Picard get physically traumatized in BOBW. (He was just suddenly… Locutus!) His trauma was psychological. The body-horror stuff was depicted more in VOY."

Voyager actually stole, err, borrowed from First Contact with regards to the "body-horror" stuff.

Anyhow I think there's plenty on and off screen in/after BoBW to speak to the physical trauma.

Honestly I think any instance in VOY of Seven fondly recollecting the superior aspects of the Borg Collective is best seen as a character trait, not an objective fact. What I mean by this is that for the first time in the series there was a character in conflict with the other characters - you know, that thing the showrunners did everything in their power to squash in S1. And lo and behold it actually makes for good stories and it excites the writing team, without needing to detract from the Starfleet message of the show. So naturally where was this conflict going to come from? Obviously from Seven resisting becoming one of the gang, i.e. being 'assimilated' the way the Maquis were in S1. So in a funny way Seven's reluctance to admit there's anything good about being part of Voyager's crew is a resistance to the very type of assimilation the Borg do, i.e. forcing individuals to just become another drone, like Tom Paris became.

Naturally Seven would require justification for not wanting to become just another crew member, and it ends up generally being how the inefficiencies on the ship annoy her, and other things involving irrational thinking and nonsense, so of course the writers are going to go again and again back to the fountain of "things were better in the Collective". But I don't think it's reasonable from this writing trick to infer anything objective about whether the Collective is good or bad. Seven is going to find reasons to rebel one way or another, but we don't have to buy into those reasons. They're *her* reasons, not ours. I think even VOY gives ample evidence that the Borg are just as monstrous in every way as we thought they were, and as Jason R points out the repeated exposure to the S&M Queen and how she's essentially a dictator (to say nothing of mustache twirling villain) pretty much nullifies even the slightest possibility that we might consider whether the Collective is a nice place to be. Picard was pretty clear on what being assimilated is like, and I see no good reason to question that.

On the side topic of whether the Borg can have quasi-religious interests, really that's a separate question from whether it's nice to be a drone. There have been human cultures in history that had deranged religious practices like child sacrifice and cannibalism, and yet this fact (that they had religion) has no bearing IMO on whether it was nice or good to be part of such a culture. The two are totally separate issues.

"1. We didnt see Picard get physically traumatized in BOBW. (He was just suddenly… Locutus!) His trauma was psychological. The body-horror stuff was depicted more in VOY."

What Peter G. said.

And the trauma was both physical and psychological what with needles sticking into his eye and turning him pale and his arm being replaced by a prosthetic. It may not be as gruesome as later episodes but it's pretty awful.

And don't forget the tear in the assimilation chamber we see rolling down his cheek, not to mention the breakdown in Family in the vineyard.

But I will suggest that depending on the person assimilation may be more or less traumatic. For a man like Picard it was probably as horrific as one can imagine.

Regarding Seven specifically I think we are intended to think, as Peter suggests, that her fondness for her Borg past is as much a character trait as some endorsement of life as a drone. Indeed in one episode where we see a flashback of Seven and a handful of drones separated from the collective, Seven is shown as the most loyal to the collective and pretty much forces the drones back into the collective against their wills. The fact that Seven was assimilated as a young child could have something to do with her pro collective fanaticism too. But I'll add that her assimilation as a child is shown as being every bit as traumatic and terrifying as anyone be else and I would suggest that no one really would welcome it based on what we see. Indeed, in Hope and Fear even recently liberated Seven recoils at the notion of reassimilation.

i find it ironic that Seven in her earliest episodes seemed extremely individualistic - sticking to her guns, speaking out strongly for her unpopular opinions, rejecting all the Starfleet conventions and conformity and decorum that were constantly pushed on her. Compare early Seven with late Seven. The more she became a, quote, “individual”, the more she actually gave up her unique POV, bowed down to expectations and conventions, and developed a hungry need to fit in. She stopped standing strong and alone, unconcerned what others thought. She lost her solo confidence and was trained to feel self-flagellating, Federation-approved emotions like guilt and remorse and self-doubt and gratitude.

And (of course) her journey was not complete until she took on the mandatory feminine characteristics of maternal care toward children and - in the series’ climax - a demure longing for romance.

Admit it: in “developing her individuality”, the character actually lost her refreshing differentness, got progressively more prosaic and conventional, and decided to mold herself to the expectations of her new collective.

So one might ask: Did she really *gain* individuality during her years on Voyager? Or did she lose it?

@ Tara,

"So one might ask: Did she really *gain* individuality during her years on Voyager? Or did she lose it?"

That's a great question. I don't want to venture an opinion on it because it would invariably end up being an opinion about the writing rather than about her. But I will say that it's logical to assume that her initial rebelliousness and headstrong approach were something akin to childishness. Amusing to us, perhaps, but ultimately irrational, like a child saying "No!" to everything other than what it wants. She just says no in highly sophisticated way.

To become an individual one must first learn to abide by and even appreciate rules. The adopting of right conduct would be a necessary step in exploring one's individuality, because it's the tension within the rules, the expression one desires that the rules don't address, and learning one's needs that are discovered over time, that become a significant distinction. Saying no all the time isn't individuality, it's just immaturity. Individuality is learning how to both abide by rules and also transcend them so that one can rise above their limitations without abandoning good conduct. This is why a great musician begins by learning scales and rudimentary technique; why a philosopher begins by being a student; why an admirable leader first learns how to serve. Skip the training and greatness will never be possible.

So while I won't venture a guess about whether Seven becomes more of an individual over the series, I will say that become better trained isn't an argument against it, but is in fact a requirement. The ideal scenario would be one where she learns her real needs, ceases to be afraid to express herself, and finally comes to a point where she can regain some of that initial childlike spark but without the immaturity. I think we all want to reclaim the best parts of us that training risks stamping out. The question is, was she there yet by the end of the series?

I don’t agree that she said “no” out of childishness. She disagreed because she came from a different culture and had her own, non-starfleet-ish opinions.

For example: In “Prey” she thought it was illogical to risk every life on the ship (including her own) to protect a creature who’d beamed itself aboard and put them in danger. In many episodes she considers the crew inefficient due to their complex social relations and the verbal obfuscations which they call “politeness.”. She rejects the value Starfleet puts on exploration, finding it worthless and is at odds with the goal of getting the ship home. She blames B’Elanna for being ignorant of the rules on the telepath planet - (and is honest enough to say so, much to everyone’s horror.)

A lot of her journey is just her learning to adopt human/Starfleet values in place of Borg values. Some of these values are superficial (learning to express herself politely instead of honestly), some less so (learning to value the human courage of a dead astronaut, the value of exploration, the unique culture of the forest-dwelling tribe, etc),.

But the most ironic part of her journey is that she comes to adopt all the human weaknesses that +stifle* individuality in us all: she develops the human desire to be be socially accepted / get along with people / have friends / have romance / make people think well of her. These desires are exactly why we humans *suppress* our individuality. We conform - because we want acceptance and we fear ostracism. And this is what Seven largely does as the series goes on.

A huge problem with the writing is that this social development is presented as “Seven is becoming an individual” when it’s really “Seven is becoming socially needy and thus a conformist like the rest of us.”. We could have used a few episodes examining the tension between Seven wanting to fit in and her wanting to be true to oneself. But all we got was “Seven is learning yo fit in - and fitting in is good. Her adopting Starfleet ways is good. Her needing friends and romance is good. Her pleasing others and being helpful to them and conforming to their society is good.”. None of this is “individuality.”. It’s the opposite.

Janeway said to her “With us, you will reclaim your individuality” What she apparently meant - according to what the writers served up - was “You will be assimilated.”

"she develops the human desire to be be socially accepted / get along with people / have friends / have romance / make people think well of her."

@Tara what you are calling "conformism" above are basically the essential characteristics of well adjusted happy people. You know, the people who don't die of an OD at age 35 or machine gun elementary schools.

I mean I guess you could say the people who don't desire social acceptance, don't get along with people, don't have friends, don't have romance and don't make people think well of them are not conformists, but they are also pretty nasty miserable people.

So yes, if 7's goal was to become like Diogenes, masturbating in the town square, or some kind of misanthropic hermit, she could do that and be a true "individual" but why would the writers wish to portray such a thing?

Well: There is a continuum between extremes.

On one side: there are ascetic monks who desire not human companionship but pursuit of God through prayer and self-denial. There are also thinkers like Galilieo (rejected church doctrine and was punished). There are people who get murdered pursuing individuality (girls who are honor-murdered for refusing forced marriage, gay people lynched for simikar reasons, atheists and converts who get set on fire by a mob for their blasphemy or apostasy). There are artists and writers whose creations shock society and cause their own downfall - not even because their goal, is to be shocking, but because they are driven by an individualistic creative impulse that they cannot stifle. And there are people who flout dress-code norms and instead of worrying, say, “Why should I care what people think?”, And people who decide to live off-grid raising sheep rather than making money in a high-rise office like their parents, classmates, and all their social circle. And so on.

On the other end of the spectrum, there’s Mr Conventional who has never had a questioning thought and who accepts the religion / culture / politics / hates / and loves that were put in his head by his community. And there’s Ms. Fitting-in - who is secretly an atheist, or gay, or freedom-loving but who every day gets up and prays and dresses modestly and goes through with the wedding preparations and submits to all social expectations, because the price and risk of displaying her true self is greater than her courage.

We all fall somewhere on the spectrum - more individualistic (making up our own minds), versus more conventional/conformist (adopting and accepting the standards and expectations of our community).

VOY presented Seven’s journey from “doesnt give a damn what people think” (individualistic) to “socially needy and conformist to avoid ostracism”.

And also she moved from “had foreign ideas which she strongly defended despite opposition” to “assimilated to human/Starfleet ideas and gave up her own”.

In both dimensions she becomes less of an individual, more of a cog/conformist within Starfleet.

And that has its good points, certainly - but the show should not call it “becoming an individual”. It is socialization and assimilation.

It’s the equivalent of showing us a Viking barbarian who gets dropped in modern-day Toledo and goes from “You American people are weaklings and losers, and your society sucks” to using a knife and fork and saying “America is the best! My Viking ways were savage and bad! I wish all Vikings could change like I did.”. And the TV writers - and all us Americans - smile smugly because the Viking is telling us how awesome and right we are.

And we tell each other, “How wonderful that we freed him from the Viking collective where he could not be an individual but had to fight and raid and rape to fit in with the awful constrictive culture they taught him. Now he is free, he is free! We made him free!”. But that’s just our America-centric blindness to the fact that we’ve simply trained him to fit into our own collective - which we call “freedom and individuality”.

(Meanwhile the Vikings look at our alarm clocks and polite nonviolence and say “Arrr! Those people are confined by so many rules, they not even allowed to breathe, let alone fight, fuck, hunt, drink hard, beat slaves, run across open land, sail the wild free ocean, etc.”.)

I think Jason touched on this, but the use of the word conformity/conformist is somewhat problematic. First, to use the Viking comparison, not all social rules are domineering impositions. Some social standards fall more along the lines of water finding its own level, that is to say that certain behaviors are unsustainable, such as raiding coastal villages. The Viking age itself existed as an historically brief, highly impactful phenomenon driven by myriad factors, which largely ended because the Vikings themselves generally settled/colonized various areas and merged with local communities and cultures, who then sometimes became victims of the very hostility that got them there. This continuous cycle of violence and response stabilized not just because the Vikings were forced to conform mindlessly to societies demands, but because it had to, as the alternative was undesirable even to the Vikings who thrived off of their aggression. In other words, some social standards, such as not killing each other out of convenience, become common as much due to their effectiveness at achieving desirable living conditions as to the pressures put forth by the collective will.

Second, The key difference between individuality and conformity is the thought put into it. If seven begins to understand how politeness and social grace can be effective means of creating a harmonious society, then her “conformity” to such behavior is self driven and thus an expression of her individuality. To accept austere social demands without question is indeed conformism, but to work within the bounds of a community’s rulebook because you actually *agree* with those rules ceases to be conformity. So the question becomes, is seven blindly adhering to voyager’s and starfleet’s behavioral demands, or is she actively exploring facets of her own individuality within this framework? I personally see seven as being more of a participant in her own rebirth rather than a person being kowtowed by an oppressive society, and thus I would see her forays into all the various experiences she explores as an effort to expand her individuality rather than a loss of it.

Of course all this would play better if she questioned the ridiculousness of her outfit, but what are you gonna do.

@Tara your position in this discussion is deeply perplexing. Maybe I am missing something but you are suggesting that Seven getting away from her Borg "culture" in favor of human values (or at least 1990s understanding of liberal humanism through the lens of a fictional 24th century utopia) is a kind of "conformism" despite the fact that the Borg are canonically conformism on steroids multiplied by 1M?

I mean it's like if our hypothetical murdering raping Viking ended up in a new culture that liked to play rugby and you criticized them for introducing the Viking to "violence" for teaching him a violent sport like rugby :)

But more importantly you've I think made a mistake in what is really going on here. Seven is nothing like the Viking. Seven is not an example of Borg "culture" because the Borg have no culture. A culture requires individuals in a group; the Borg have no individuals, only a single hive mind. The hive mind isn't a culture any more than a lone man can consider himself a culture.

Up until the point Seven was disconnected from the hive, she didn't even exist as an individual. What we are observing from Seven is a newly created individual struggling to adapt to her environment. Seven is, to Peter G's point, in essence, a child - maybe one with extraordinary knowledge and intellect but a child nonetheless because up until a few weeks ago "she" didn't even exist.

So in that sense, Janeway really is akin to her mother and what you are calling "conformity" is no different than what any child must learn to adapt to her new environment.

Several separate threads:

1. Agree that Seven was not an individual when she was with the Borg, due to the shared hive mind.

2. Disagree that “the Borg have no culture.”. Their culture includes such things as pursuit of perfection, pursuit of the Omega particle (a godlike beauty to them apparently), desire to assimilate species that have attractive qualities, and to avoid assimilating cultures (like the Kazon) who would diminish them and have nothing that their culture values. Saying they “have no culture” is like saying a remote tribe “has no culture”. The Borg certainly have one - it’s why they act so different from how you act and why they value things different from what you value. You just refuse to call their behavior and values and actions a demonstration of their unique *culture* (though Im not sure what word you use instead).

3. Here is a main point of difference between you and me: When Seven was cut off from the hive mind , on Voyager, I would say she was the most *individualistic* person on board. Unlike every single other person, she had zero interest in conforming to the society around her. She was 100 percent un-assimilated to her new society.

Understand what Im saying? Among the Borg she was not an individual , but marooned on Voyager she immediately was - she did not fit in, did not want to fit in, and did not care about fitting in. She was unique and valued her uniqueness and was loathe to assimilate to human customs/values.

4. The arc of character development which was presented smugly as “Seven becomes an individual!” was actually
— “Seven learns to copy normative human social behavior (this is the opposite of individualism; it’s socialization to community norms. It is done by children who are raised in society , eg they learn to share toys and not pick their nose and obey parents etc) AND
- “Seven leaves her Borg values and culture and instead adopts is Starfleet/human values and culture” (this is also the opposite of individualism; it done by immigrants when they move from Foreign Land to Our Land and involves copying the beliefs and habits of people around you); AND
- “Seven develops human social needs” ie she eventually wants friendship and love and acceptance; (This is considered normal and thus “healthy” in humans, such that a loner or neurodivergent person or asexual person or eccentric rule-flouting artist is considered “unhealthy” and possibly crazy or in need of therapy. But the loner or rule-flouting artist is far more an *individual* than Mr Conventional who thinks, talks, dresses and values exactly the way his community tells him to think, talk etc, squelching the creative potential and uniqueness of his human mind.)

You may think it is wonderful that Seven learned to say please, adopt Starfleet values, and want romantic love. Fine.

But I am saying that none of these wonderful things should be called “developing one’s individuality.”. They should be called what they are: socialization and assimilation - aka joining the Human Hive.

The Human Hive is admittedly somewhat less mentally enslaving than the Borg Hive. But it is nonetheless a Hive.

The trajectory Seven takes after being severed from the Borg is as follows: she starts out extremely individualistic (thinks her own thoughts and does her own thing with no care for human social coercion or Starfleet values) and then gets gradually socialized and assimilated, starts caring what people think, seeks to be trained by the Doctor, and becomes closer and closer to being Just Like Everyone Else around her. I do not call this “becoming an individual.”

As you disagree, please give me examples that you consider evidence of Seven “learning to be an individual” - rather Seven learning to fit in socially and to adopt the values of the people around her.

Hey!! I just thought of the one - possibly the only - moment where Seven struck me as “becoming an individual”.

She was on a shuttle w Tuvok and suddenly commented, “The doctor instructed me to make small talk. I should now do so - because we have been silent for 20 minutes.”.

Tuvok answered gravely, “Did our silence bother you?”

Seven considered - and with a look of surprise and self-discovery answered “No.”

@ Tara "The Human Hive is admittedly somewhat less mentally enslaving than the Borg Hive. But it is nonetheless a Hive."

I've deduced that you're more of a Voyager fan than any other show, but I assume you've seen at least the headline episodes of TNG? From BoBW:

BORG: We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours.

PICARD: Impossible. My culture is based on freedom and self-determination.

BORG: Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You must comply.

Picard says it right there. Freedom and self-determination. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the claim that human culture equates to a "hive" that's somewhat "mentally enslaving." If you were talking about North Korea, perhaps, but Western Civilization? Human culture as portrayed in Berman era Trek?

That's a reeeeeeaaaaaaaal reach. Our culture is a hive because of certain conformity expectations, e.g., wear clothes in public?

Freedom and self-determination says, if you want to go live naked in the woods without any human interaction, nobody is going to stop you. There's a well documented story of a gentleman in Maine who did it for DECADES.

There's zero freedom and self-determination in the Borg Collective. Nearly all humans, even those currently living under the worst of the worst authoritarian regimes (i.e., North Korea) would regard assimilation as a fate worse than death.

Having caught up to this episode in my re-watch, I stand by all my criticism of it. There's nothing whatsoever except Kes' telepathy to suggest 8472 is hostile towards Voyager. To recap:

1. An 8472 punches Harry Kim hard enough to.... knock him down. Note he was wandering through a war zone and bears a not insignificant resemblance to 8472's mortal enemy. Still, 8472 doesn't immediately kill him.

2. That same 8472 takes a half-hearted shot at Voyager, which does not destroy the ship, when we've established (in the teaser) they can one-shot kill Borg Cubes. He does not pursue Voyager when she flees. As portrayed, it appears they "pulled their punch."

3. When Voyager hits the Northwest Passage, 8472 knows they're there, they attempt to communicate with Voyager via Kes, and when that fails they do.... absolutely nothing to Voyager. They do not attack or otherwise molest her. They do not pursue her when she leaves.

4. When the Borg planet is killed, after Janeway's asinine attempt to ally with them, 8472 does not attack or otherwise molest Voyager.

In Part II, they do come after Voyager, AFTER she allied with their mortal enemy. Even here, they continue to pull their punches. Ships that can one-shot kill Borg Cubes shoot at Voyager with enough power to... knock our heroes off their feet. We don't even get the exploding consoles that usually let us know Things Are Serious™.

This is sophomoric writing. I know what the writers WANTED to convey but they completely failed.

All I see, in the episode as aired, is Janeway lacking basic common sense. She drags the entire Federation into a war against a massively superior force to the benefit of the Federation's greatest enemy and existential threat.

Personally, I'd have had Kes tell them, "Godspeed" and continued on our way towards the Alpha Quadrant.

Now that I'm done shitting on it, there are a few highlights. As Jammer says, "If there's one thing that an imminent Borg encounter can do on a Star Trek episode, it's that it can create a believable sense of urgency."

The Doctor's explanation of the assimilation process (we saw it in First Contact but never learned how it worked) is a good moment, plausible technobabble done correctly.

The best moment of course was Chakotay's parable.

And, of course, we got Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine, one of the more compelling characters in the entire canon.

3.5-stars for the above moments and the sheer spectacle of this episode on 1990s broadcast television. 1-star for the actual story/script, which brings us to an average of.... 2.25-stars.

@Tim I think to be fair to the writers, we have to assume that the examples you use of 8472 "pulling its punches" are more examples of the story "cheating" to some extent rather than showing what you claim, namely that 8472 was deliberately holding back.

So when Voyager is initially shot at by 8472 near the wreckage of the Borg ship, it looks like Voyager survives because it takes a glancing indirect blow rather than a direct hit. Later when it is attacked while in tow by the Cube again I think that's the intention but visually it is much harder to justify (the cube almost immediately moves itself between Voyager and the bioship and then kamikazes itself but really Voyager should not have survived even the first hit.

My hypothesis that the writing "cheats" is then validated by the final battle in fluidic space where Voyager survives multiple direct hits despite there being 0 reason for 8472 to hold back. (The fact that Voyager was enhanced with Borg armor would make a splendid justification for Voyager's newfound durability except for the fact that *actual Borg cubes* were getting one shorted as we saw in the intro)

I will offer one final provisional defence for the writers on this cheating point. The one and only time we see cubes being one-shotted by 8472 bioships is in the intro where we can't actually see the bioships firing because the perspective is first person. This is significant because we know from the attack on the Borg planet that bioships can chain together to increase their weapons' power even to the point of busting a planet Death Star style. It is possible that the source of the attack one shotting those cubes in the intro was *a chain of bioships* which would explain why single bioships seemed so much less devastating later in the episodes.

All that said I don't think any of the above meaningfully detracts from the point you made. Even if in the initial encounter with Voyager the bioship wasn't holding back, it clearly didn't care enough about Voyager to give chase and we get the impression it is just taking pot shots rather than seriously going for the kill; in any event, the ship has good reason to be taking shots at Voyager which was: 1. In the middle of a warzone; 2. Possibly allied with the Borg; and 3. Had just invaded the same bioship's bridge! The attack on Harry could be justified for the same reason and I'll note that the reason getting swiped was even more than a flesh round was due to 8472's biology; it isn't clear the individual even meant to kill Harry or understood how it's cells would effect Harry (note 8472 is stated to be *alone* in its dimension, which means they likely have next to no experience with organisms like humans)

In addition, while I do think we can trust Kes's reading of the telepathic transmission to some extent, as others noted "the weak will perish" is ambiguous and possibly not a reliable assessment of 8472's intentions *as a race*. I feel similarly about "your galaxy will be purged". Purged of everyone or purged of the Borg?

In Hope and Fear we learn from Arcturis that Kes's assessment of 8472's intentions was not shared by everyone.

And in In the Flesh we also learn that they are hardly beyond negotiation. It is simply UnTrekkian to have a Starfleet Captain make such a brash kneejerk conclusion about an entire race based on a single encounter. Even in TOS where we had Kirk's more off the cuff style you had episodes like Arena and Devil in the Dark making this exact point, to say nothing of TNG where Picard was hesitant to kill even aggressive violent attackers without at least attempting understanding (Silicon Avatar, Galaxy's Child etc.)

Janeway's decision just flies in the face of the Trek ethos and just defies common sense given the Borg being established as the one truly implacable foe ever encountered as close to "pure evil" as one can get - and she just throws 8472 under the bus in a split second decision? All to help the Borg?! How convenient it just happens to get your crew home Katherine, how convenient.....

@ Jason R. "I'll note that the reason getting swiped was even more than a flesh round was due to 8472's biology; it isn't clear the individual even meant to kill Harry or understood how it's cells would effect Harry"

This part. I got bit by a small dog once. It was a defensive reaction from an animal with a sad abuse history. No big deal, except, the bite wound got infected. Did the dog intend for me to get an infection? Hardly.

"In addition, while I do think we can trust Kes's reading of the telepathic transmission to some extent"

My partner made the point that Kes is a bit of a prodigy and I should give her more credit than my Duolingo analogy a few posts up.

Fair enough, but the deeper we got into the two-parter, the more my partner had problems with Janeway's decision. She was still subscribed to Janeway's newsletter right up until the final scene of Part I, where they make contact with the Borg, and broke with Janeway completely after the Borg assault her and Tuvok in one of the first scenes in Part II.

Note that she hasn't seen "Prey," "In The Flesh," or "Hope and Fear" yet. I'm not sure how she'll interpret those episodes but I doubt they'll reflect favorably on Janeway's decision in this installment.

Something else, it could easily be argued that the whole premise of the Borg _only_ learning from assimilation is flawed. BoBW:

RIKER: Shield status?
DATA: Holding, sir.
SHELBY: The nutation modulation has them confused.
RIKER: They have the ability to analyze and adapt, Commander.

It's a bit of a stretch to imagine the Borg can't learn _anything_ without assimilation. When presented with a novel defense by the Enterprise-D, it took them about 30 seconds to figure it out. The Doctor figured out 8472's biology over the course of a few days, trying to treat Harry Kim, with the resources of one Federation sickbay. The Borg Collective, billions of minds and near infinite resources, they couldn't figure it out with months to attack the problem?

" How convenient it just happens to get your crew home Katherine, how convenient....."

I really hate it that much more because I've grown to like the Janeway character far more than I thought I would during my re-watch. At least up until this point, I see what the writers and actress were going for, and I think a not insignificant amount of pushback during the original run had sexist undertones to it....

But there's just no way to reconcile what happens in this episode in any positive light for the character. It's lamentable that this is Seven's origin story, because if it was just a random two-parter w/o long term consequences (e.g., Gambit or Time's Arrow) it'd be easier to dismiss.