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Yanks
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Macrocosm

I guess it's all relative.

It really didn't bother me because I didn't know all that stuff Yusef was speaking about.

With all the trek-no-magic we accept, I don't think this is all that bad or that big a deal.
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Chrome
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

Booming wrote:

"Well, they have a pretty strong link to American culture for around 70 years."

Actually, they have a link with American culture for over 170 years, which is why baseball is popular over there. American religion, on the other hand, never really caught on.

"I believe that they also had a concept of angels through Buddhism (Tennin)."

Less than a third of the population is Buddhist. Your argument was that writers use elements to capture the heart of religious countries, but it seems to be the case that even countries with a non-religious majority enjoy such symbolism. I think you're missing the point that you can enjoy such imagery because - hey, it's interesting! - even if you don't believe in a higher power. I don't believe that Zeus is capable of striking me down with thunderbolts, but it's fun to imagine if such a being existed and what stories may stem from it.
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Broley
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Brother

greetings jammer and all trekies,

i started finally 2e season today. we watched a few epiodes of original star trek because friends recommended and we saw enterprise at the end of 1e season. we watched 'the cage' because pike is in it. it was a bit boring but neccessary they said. its true that it helped because he is in this episode and we saw spock (i only saw him in two movies and my partner knows him from next generation. we also tried to watch four other suggestion episode from original star trek but we did not like, sorry, only one of them with the tolian web.

but we really like this episode 'brother.' very good story and this actor is better pike than the old one. burnham and spock children scenes were interesting. i think the entier story of spock's family is interesting. sarek is a good character with many secrets (like the episode in the 1e season 'lethe'). we are curious to see more of burnham and spock in childhood years.

i agree with you jammer, its not explained what is wrong with enterprise. the only bad organized thing in the episode. i feel very bad for stamets, we like this character much, me more than my partner.
good start, i want to watch this quicker than 1e season and finish it this week i wish, ha!
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Tempeh
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 4:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

There's a big problem with this episode. The station doesn't look like it did in previous flashback episodes. In those episodes the station was very dark and loud. Anyone else notice? I understand that in this episode the station is brand new, so maybe the writers were thinking it became more dark as time went on.
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Boooming
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 3:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

@Jason R.
Sure. 50 years ago being christian was pretty much the norm in many Western countries. The greek gods are used in a few of our oldest stories: Hercules, Odysee, Troj. Without Homer we probably wouldn't know that much about them.
What do you know about the Titans and how they looked? Right. Nothing.
Or Vishnu or the Gandharva. Yeah, nothing.
Is it really that likely that an atheist society, consisting of dozens of species and many more cultures in 300 years would see an anthropomorphic being with wings and think: That looks like one of those helpers of the abrahamic god. What was it called again... yes angel" Burnham wasn't even raised on earth.
It was called red angel because it is an American show for western audiences and it sounds mysterious. In doesn't make much sense in Discovery or Star Trek.

@Chrome
Well, they have a pretty strong link to American culture for around 70 years. I believe that they also had a concept of angels through Buddhism (Tennin).
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Chrome
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:50am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

I agree with Jason. Take also for example the Japanese who are notoriously agnostic and have no strong links to Christianity, yet they use religious symbols like Angels and Priests in just about every kind of media.
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Peter G.
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:44am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Macrocosm

Gotta agree with Yusef on this one. It's one thing to suspend disbelief about the Heisenberg compensators and all that. But I can't accept it when total nonsense gets inserted where the script says < TECH >. I doubt anyone would be defending a show that said something like "gravitation, you know, that force where magnets stick to each other." Macrocosm doesn't *quite* get that bad, but it's still pretty bad. No one should have to hand-waive away rubbish that I could have fixed in the script if given an hour.

I do hold "science fiction" to a certain standard. Otherwise it's space opera or Buck Rogers or something.
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Yusef
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:38am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Macrocosm

Yanks

It is very difficult to suspend my belief when the characters starts saying unintelligible technobabble and completely wrong terms, especially because this is suppose to be science-fiction.

I understand using this device to solve some type of problem on the plot (although it was becomig a crutch for the writers at this point), but on this episode the whole premise is based on erroneous science.
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Jason R.
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:36am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

Booming even stone cold atheists like me are capable of looking at something and thinking "angel". Many millenia after Greeks stopped worshipping the Olympian pantheon people today will comment that someone looks like a "Greek God" and it doesn't make them worshippers of Zeus.
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Randie
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:24am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: Spectre of the Gun

I’m pretty biased in favor of TOS, having been raised on this series and none of the following ones, so the fact that this is one of my favorite episodes probably doesn’t hold much weight compared to somebody with a broader perspective. But, alas, I’ve always loved this episode, even given all of its long and repetitive dialogue and minced plot.

The reason I enjoy TOS so much is its unapologetically theatrical execution. The sets are evidently fake, the performances are overdramatic, the costumes are ridiculous, and the dialogue is preachy - and I adore it. I think I loved Spectre of the Gun so much because it exemplifies all of that to an extreme. The half-constructed western town was so fascinating to me as a child, especially the buildings without walls and randomly designated edifices. There is something so unnerving about an empty stage before or after a performance, and that’s just what the charicature of Tombstone captures in SotG.

I’m a sucker for actors who take their roles completely seriously, and Star Trek TOS required that from its cast. The dedication (and overacting) of the actors help suspend disbelief and create a light-hearted atmosphere of “look, I know this is fake, but humor me”. The guest actors who play the Earps and Doc H are absolutely phenomenal and genuinely creep me out. Often my least favorite part of Trek is the guest characters (motives hard to believe, backstory ridiculous, etc) but the stone cold performances really gave our leads something to act with.

The dialogue is slow and redundant, but I’m the kind of person who enjoys a scene where the characters are just bantering back and forth, even if it is meaningless. My favorite part of TOS is the main characters and their ongoing dynamic. I appreciate Spectre of the Gun because it was one of the few episodes that actually included Chekov.

Okay.... Chekov. What a mess. I love the character, and I love the actor, but I hate the writing. While I’m appreciative that SotG gives the character an opportunity to do something, it vexes me that he was written so lamely and almost out of character. That is, if there was any character to write him out of. Why would he jeopardize the entire mission to be with a random girl who - when they first met - basically molested him...? And, also, if he’d really do that in this episode, why in The Way to Eden does Chekov’s old girlfriend say he is rigid, correct, and straight-laced??

The problem with chekov is it seems no one ever knows what to do with him. Does he HAVE any personality traits besides flirty, Russian, and occasionally psychopathic? Even though Chekov is my favorite character in the series (unpopular opinion, I know, but I’m a sucker for hard luck cases), I feel the only reason he has a somewhat consistent personality in the series is due to Koenig making the best of every line he’s given.

I think that speaks for the rest of the episode, and the series, too. In TOS the producers and the actors just had to make the best out of what they were given. SotG really demonstrates that in its writing, set, and costumes. I don’t know... for me, the most enjoyable part of the show is not just its fakeness, but the reality it wants you to accept.
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Yusef
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:20am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Before and After

Why this is rated so highly? Boring episode, so glad that Kes got away in season 4. Ridiculous and dumb premise, done so many times in Trek to the point that makes me yawn.

0.5 stars
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Chrome
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:17am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Big Goodbye

I guess we could think of it this way: it's a good setup for "11001001".
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William B
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:05am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Big Goodbye

Haha. Most of us probably all have soft spots for episodes we know aren't exactly the best.
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Peter G.
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:00am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Big Goodbye

< waiting while William digs the episode a deeper hole >
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SJU
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 10:41am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S4: Scientific Method

Loved it.
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William B
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 10:32am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Big Goodbye

(Of course, one could argue that a real Bogart fan would have made better episodes as homage!)

I should also say that because Picard is so enthusiastic, it should be a better detective/noir story than it is, so I take back that "part of the point" line. So okay it's not a good homage and it's anemic and all but I still find the effort kind of charming, and as I said I still really like Tierney here.
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William B
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 10:26am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Big Goodbye

I kind of like this one, possibly because I am a fan of detective noir films. Of course this is plastic and inauthentic, but that's part of the point. It's definitely slow and kind of pointless, but I like Tierney a lot even in a kind of empty role like this one, and I like the Data, Crusher bits (as Springy mentions) and Picard's enthusiasm. Really this episode feels like a trial run for better episodes down the line (particularly the Moriarty eps). Picard navigating an "exciting" (or so is the intent) adventure as proxy for navigating the boring but higher stakes language diplomacy thing is also about how fiction functions in our lives (see also that Picard and Crusher can only flirt in character), and to an extent this first holodeck malfunction is about becoming too involved in a story.
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William B
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 10:19am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Big Goodbye

I think it's the latter (that this is a deliberate homage to film noir in general). There was certainly no attempt to hide that this is based on The Maltese Falcon, with Sydney Greenstreet's character being renamed "Cyrus Redblock." Humphrey Bogart starred in both The Maltese Falcon and The Big Sleep, and We'll Always Have Paris, later in the season, references Casablanca, so there seems to be a Bogart fan on the staff. Lawrence Tierney, who plays Redblock, was a heavy in many old noirs as well (Tarantino would use him in Reservoir Dogs a few years later).

In any case, the titles of both of the Marlowe novels are euphemisms to death - - the big sleep, the long goodbye. The episode gives some poignancy to Hill's friend who asks whether he'll still exist when Picard turns off the program, and so I think what this episode is "about" is about death and stories - - how we are attracted to stories where people encounter death but have mastery over it (detectives). Whether those stories stay with us when we leave them. I'm not saying it's successful at that.
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Peter G.
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 9:25am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Big Goodbye

@ Springy,

Memory Alpha says that the episode's setting and characters were based on The Maltese Falcon. However the title appears to be a reference to two other detective films:

"The title of this episode would seem to be a composite of the Raymond Chandler books The Big Sleep and The Long Goodbye, featuring iconic detective Philip Marlowe."

So it's possible that the title was referencing other detective stories to throw us off the scent that they were lifting from Maltese Falcon; or else perhaps the mix of detectives and films is meant to show us that this is an homage to noir detective stories in general.
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Devviant
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 2:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Through the Looking Glass

There's no other commenter on this site other than that Elliott figure that gets me to the point of teeth gritting disgust so easily and so quickly.
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Todayshorse
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 1:55am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S2: Persistence of Vision

Strangely compelling viewing, interseped with some laugh out loud moments which makes for great star trek, especailly after reading the comments here.

Way better than the previous few episodes of dross. As someone here noted, I also got 'sub rosa' vibes plus bonus typical American 'this is how we think britsh people really are' squabbling over cucumber sandwiches and what not, dont you know :D.

Lord Sideburns😄😄
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Boooming
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 12:55am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

@ Bobbington Mc Bob
Totally agree. Religion was always the weakest aspect of DS9 (and BSG) but this being an US show and the US being by far the most religious country in the western hemisphere (not counting Italy; in all the other major European countries less than half believe that there is a god) it is probably unavoidable.
In TNG it was portrayed like humanity had left religion and everything that it entails behind but the religious revival in the US of the late 80s and 90s started to undermine this, I guess.
That is why it made no sense to call it "the red angel" in Discovery. That was only made for US audiences. For people in Star Trek saying that would be like us seeing some phenomenon and calling it the "the mighty Ra". Most people in Star Trek wouldn't really know what an angel is (a western/middle eastern concept of a servant of a monotheistic god) or how it looks like. It is so dumb...
In DS9 the religious stuff gets really stupid...
But I don't want to spoil it.
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Todayshorse
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 12:55am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S2: Parturition

Breakout character? What did that even mean? I'd wager Neelix is even more annoying than 1st season Wesley and La Forge during his creepy Leah Brahms crush.

At least Janeway had a nice hair style in this episode.
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Cesar Gonzalez
Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 12:28am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Lower Decks

Am I the only one who is wondering what the heck.happened?
Why did Sito "escape"? She had a plan.
Safe to say something went wrong, but what?
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DamnableReverend
Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 11:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Battle

I don't care too much that this episode is at times painfully slow, or that it's irritating that the audience is always so far ahead of most of the characters. Even the complacent utopian babble about conquering the scourge of the headache doesn't faze me too much. This was the first episode of TNG I ever saw, on eitehr its first or second airing. I was at my cousins' house, and was about seven- or eight-years old. I already knew a little bit about TOS and had seen a few episodes, and was really confused about who the people were on this show, since nobody had deigned to tell me there was a new Star Trek series, but my cousin was already a fan. I thought Picard on teh Stargazer was the most haunting thing I'd ever seen up to that point. The visions clouding his mind and Riker yelling at him to "DESTROY THE SPHERE!" while the alarm yammers on in the background have been indellibly etched into my brain for all time. As such, i'll always have a real soft spot and fondness for this story.

This episode continues the on-going Star Trek obsession with aping, in one way or another, the obsessive motif of Moby Dick. yes, it's TOS-like, but in a way a slightly sick love letter like The naked now could never hope to be. TOS and DS9 are still my favourite series to this day, but I have the strongest and most vivid memories of watching TnG as a kid.
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