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Springy
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:18am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Captain's Holiday

Eh.

An OK ep. Sorta boring.

The lighthearted moments were good. Watching Picard try to relax was funny, there were some humorous lines and nice moments.

Not a fan of Vosh. She's basically a dishonest person, no matter how you look at it, and I can't see the charm. It's the false charm, the fake bravado, of a grifter. I liked Picard much better with that lawyer . . . Phillipa.

The technobabble and time travelers: Not Good.

Onward.
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batfunk
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 5:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

I watched it. His new version of Endgame is much better. Janeway trying to save Galaxy from Borg Apocalypse is more relevant than destroying future to save egoistically a few friends.Borg Apocalypse reminds me a fine episode of Tng, where Riker tries to survive in an alternate reality.
If you add the promised reunions(Paris father and son, Tuvok and his family...), Voyager destruction and my bittersweet moments and ending, you obtain a fine episode, with great issues, action and believable human behaviors.
On the other end, his original final episode is underwhelming:no great issues and it's a rehash of a previous Barclay episode. Not good.
A finale episode and preferably a last season should resolve all issues satisfactorily.last season and Endgame does not:Paris/ father janeway/chakotay doc/seven Tuvok/family and on and on... Strangely, only Neelix got a great conclusion in a full episode!!!

Finally, my re-watch of Voyager didn't change my first opinion :it's a fun but inconsequential show, far behind Tng and DS9, with very few great episodes.
But better than Enterprise and Discovery (ugh)

See you in a few months to deliver my own finale episode of Enterprise, after it's first re-watch.... Lol
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MusicalTurtle
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 4:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: The Search, Part II

Whether it was intentional or not, the scene when Bashir/Sisko and Dax/O'Brien were reunited felt a bit off to me - it was the big grins and everybody seeming just strangely light-hearted, but I can't quite put my finger on exactly *why* or really justify it. If it was intentional, well done to them giving a subtle tip-off. If it wasn't ... heh, maybe a happy accident? After that everything seemed to be happening too quickly with our main characters almost a bit out of the loop, so I was wondering what the twist was right up until the reveal.
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Yanks
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 3:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

Very nice discussion all.

Steve Shives has a couple of interesting ideas here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqpjYFki2Pg
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Batfunk
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:08am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

I love your ending, grumpy_otter, specially the Tuvok part(I thought exactly the same scene).
But I think your version is not enough bittersweet. We learn with Endgame that Voyager lost a few officers, I think it's fair.My version would include the loss of the innocent Harry.
The loop wouldbe complete with another Caretaker sending the crew back. Janeway must destroy Voyager to permit the crew's return(I don't know how and why...), another heartbreaking scene. Maybe with Chakotay preventing Janeway to sink with her ship, (by declaring his love?) .
I imagine Harry's parents looking for him in the crowd at the dock.Then a sad Janeway arrives in front of them... No words.. Just her sad face. Heart breaking...
I think also that some officers, after so many years of action,as war veterans, will not adapt to civil life, specially Janeway. After a year of living with CHakotay holidays, unsatisfied with her new life, she broke and take the command of another ship.
A final meal scene, with the ancient bridge crew, before Janeway departure, with a vacant seat for Harry, a toast to the lost crew, emotional crossed looks and a large final shoot of the table, where life resumes with enjoyed talking and smiles.
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Booming
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:31am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Shadowplay

@MusicalTurtle
To be fair Bareil is good looking and Vedek's for the Bajorans are revered figures.
I think they really clicked in the episode "the circle" in the monastery. I think that episode shows that Kira because of the her life of fighting feels inner turmoil. Bareil is the cure for that. He is good and kind man but he is most of all calm, has inner peace and is in harmony with the world. Three things Kira, the war veteran, definitely wants.
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Springy
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 11:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Allegiance

Watching and commenting

--Picard gets xeroxed. Yuh-oh.

--He's being kept in a box and fed cherry jello discs.

--Xerox-Picard acting just ever so slightly off, takes them off course.

--"STOP, we mean you no harm!!!" Some really, really hokey dialogue in the box.

--Xerox Picard asks Beverly to dinner. Intimate dinner. In his quarters. Low lighting. Sexy clothes. Sexy talk. Romantic music. The old "would you care to dance" maneuver . . . a kiss, followed by . . . showing Beverly the door. Beverly looks mystified. Don't try to figure out, Bev.

--Xerox-Picard seeming less and less like the original, as he sings in Ten Forward. Riker is suspicious.

--Lots of boring, badly written, predictable dialogue in the box.

--The part on The Enterprise is definitely more interesting, as we learn a bit about how the crew sees their Captain.

--The "we're in a lab, being studied," solution very hokey and reminiscent of an old Twilight Zone.

Prisons: Self made, other-made.

Allegiance? The captors say they're studying leadership - leaders and followers, how it all works. I suppose the ep is meant to study that too? What allegiance costs, and demands of, both leaders and followers, what its limits are, how priorities are established.

I wonder what they were studying by asking Beverly to dinner?

Some nice moments, but below average overall.
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HC
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 8:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Phantasms

Just caught this one again on TV, it's fine. Stewart's direction does a lot to elevate a fairly mundane script, though I did enjoy Data's new developments, even if the resolution sees him doing a plot thing rather than evolving as a character. Points for outright weirdness, even if the Braga-isms get a bit much (Freud, interdimensional bugs), and I do like this looser later-season Picard. Shame the movies didn't lean into that side of him more.
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LisaM
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 5:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Course: Oblivion

Regardless of how people feel about this episode (it was just on TV today), I kind of wished the crew managed to get the time capsule off safely and that Voyager, upon arriving at the spot where they found only odd debris, did find that capsule. Seeing them find out that the duplicate ship and crew managed to leave their home world and experience adventures different from our crew and ship would have been interesting to me.
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MusicalTurtle
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Shadowplay

The Odo storyline actually made me cry the first time round! The rest of it was fluff but enjoyable - apart from Bareil. I never understood what Kira saw in him, until we got Mirror-verse Bareil - and then I felt cheated that Prime-verse Bareil was so wooden and uninteresting. Very strange.

I'm glad they didn't delve into the issue of sentience/life for holograms. It was sufficient that they were real and worth restarting, worth continuing their existence.
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Brian Lear
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 3:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Dear Doctor

Imagine there are two patients, both in need of a heart transplant to live. One of them has a lethal disease that will kill him in just a couple years. The other patient does not have the disease and will likely gain decades of quality life years with the new heart. There is only one heart available. Which patient should get it?

This episode initially asks us to judge the relative utility of saving a race that will eventually die out anyway, versus doing nothing. It then seamlessly transitions to asking us to consider the larger question of whether we should even be concerning ourselves with the first question in the first place. And I think that's where a lot of people fell off the train. The first question wasn't really answered. But the second question was. They decided not to answer the first question, because they couldn't. Not that time, not that place.

That non-answer is what really threw people off this episode. But I urge those of you in that category to reconsider. My enjoyment of this episode does not hinge on the decisions made. If it does for you, I suspect you are too close to the material, and not seeing the big picture. Take a few steps back and re-watch it. Try not caring whether they answer the question or not, and just enjoy watching them wrestle with it. It's the journey people, not the destination.
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Chrome
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 10:22am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: Is There In Truth No Beauty?

@Trish

Your comment inspired me to watch this and it’s very close indeed. I believe the music you’re referring to is called a leitmotif. It’s used whenever Dr. Miranda is on screen (especially when we see her power).
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Chrome
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 10:10am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Let He Who Is Without Sin...

It’s really just another problem with the episode. Here’s a chance to get into Risian culture and explain why people are freely giving away their bodies and why that might be “decadent” from a certain point of view. But it never gets there.
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Jeff
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 8:25am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Course: Oblivion

Watching 'Demon' and 'Oblivion' back to back shows this series at both it at it's best and worst. Great technical achievement with amazing effects and true dedication by the design crew, actors and musicians... and failure by the writers and producers to craft a reason for all of it to mean a damn.

Directed by the guy who played 'Potsie' from the tv show 'Happy Days'. I'd rather watch that for some legit substance.

Jammer is right. This is 1 star, just for the people showing up on the set.
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Booming
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:07am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Let He Who Is Without Sin...

@Mike
Yes and the Federation is the pimp.
Risans give pleasure, the Federation provides tech and everything to make that possible and profits by having a more happy population.
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Mike
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 10:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Let He Who Is Without Sin...

Is Risa like a prostitution planet or something? I don't get it.

Dax in a swimsuit was nice. I also think Leeta is smoking hot so I enjoyed her scenes. Other than that, I concur with the consensus: Gawd awful.
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Springy
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 10:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Sins of the Father

Watching and commenting:

--Kurn!! I like Kurn. Instead of "Engage," he says "Execute!" Perfect.

--Picard sure can slice a turkey! I'm going to invite him to my Thanksgiving this year. Please pass the potatoes, Jean Luc.

--Great scene between Worf and Kurn as Kurn makes his revelation. But I have to say, it's hard to believe Worf, at the age of five, wouldn't remember he had little brother. But I will accept it.

--Picard makes a wonderful gesture, going with Worf to the Great Hall.

--Duras. Such a slimy guy.

--"It is a good day to die." Such a useful quote. I like to pepper it into my conversation whenever possible. I need to go to the BMV this week. Maybe I'll have an opportunity there.

--Nice bonding and development of Picard and Worf's relationship.

--Lots of references to who's in charge, who's got the power. And lots of references to the past, what can be left behind, and what cannot - what is dead, and what is not, what is unchanging, what has a lasting impact, and what is lost.

--Worf makes a huge sacrifice for his brother.

Nicely done.
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(Off)Springy
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 9:27pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

A solid episode.

I liked the beginning, everyone's reaction when they see The Child, and Picard trying to explain his concern to Data is priceless. Spiner and Stewart are great.

Does the crew generally consult Picard before they procreate? I bet they don't, Data.

Picard and Data reminds me of Janeway and the Doctor - yes, the Captains acknowledge the sentience and indulgence and rights of their non-biological crewmen, but not really. Not completely. Not wholeheartedly.

The Riker business in Ten Forward was a great little lighthearted interlude. Wouldn't want Data to miss out on the "dealing with Lotharios" aspect of raising a daughter.

The ep hammers the importance of relationships, connections, when it comes to "being human/truly alive." At a micro-level, literal connections form in Lal's brain, at a macro level we watch the connections amongst the crew (we open with closed-up-in-his-lab Data finally letting his friends in on his little secret, as doors open and shut. Lal asks about everyone's coverings, and we get repeated references in the ep, to sharing our inner lives, to connecting to others). And we watch the connection form between Data and Lal.

In doing this, the ep also explores the definition of love. Data's attentive, concerned, protective actions toward Lal has Dr Crusher believing he loves Lal. Is love ultimately defined by, expressed by, actions?

There's something else we're hitting on here: What did Worf tell Q, when Q asked what he had to do, to prove he was human? DIE.

A lot of nice little moments, well done. A bit too low key for me to think of it as a classic, but definitely a good one.
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Trish
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 8:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: Is There In Truth No Beauty?

Amazing how much the music played close to the end of the episode while Kirk gives Miranda a rose sounds like the Brady Bunch theme.

"It's the story of a lovely lady, who is mind-linked with an uggo named Kollos …"
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Alexia
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 6:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Tapestry

I like it. Before I get bogged down in complaints, I’ll start with that. The overarching plot - a twisted version of “It’s a Wonderful Life”, with Q as a snarky and slightly sadistic Clarence - is a delight. Too bad the script used to maneuver our hero through his paces are so transparently manipulative.
This is an episode where, just behind the screen, I can the writers jerking every characters’ strings.

Jean-Luc as a womanizer in his youth? I have a hard time buying it. Wasn’t he a driven, ambitious cadet with a serious personality? But, okay: it wa along ago, and I’ll grant the possibility.

But: the plot point that Jean-Luc never went to bed with the smitten Marta when he was a reckless young womanizer, but then did go to bed with her when he was his “older and wiser” self (on the eve of their permanent separation, no less) seems out of place. The Wise Old Picard is shown taking a risk with Marta’s friendship, flying in the face of the rest of his characterization.

There’s also a distinct ick factor in their coupling. Picard feels himself to be 55 years old. He sees 55 year old Picard in the mirror. He’s been in a young man’s body for less than a day - and he’s using the opportunity to bed an unsuspecting 21-year-old - one that he hasn’t seen in 30 years. It’s grotesque, and not what Captain Picard would do. But the writers yank the strings, and their puppets dance.

To serve the further needs of the plot, the character of Marta is terribly underwritten. Because the writers needed a manufactured fight between Jean-Luc and Corey, Marta is kept out of every discussion about the Nausicans. She sits silent at every table, seeming having no opinion on whether Corey should play them, whether the friends should attempt revenge, and even whether she minds being raped, as the Nausican eventually suggests (her passivity in that scene leads Corey and Picard to come to blows, finalizing their schism). Her lack of opinions comes across as simply bizarre - and calls further attention to the machinations of the writers behind the scenes.

On first viewing, these clunky elements were bothersome but tolerable. On rewatching, they are nearly ruinous.

But no matter the episode’s flaws, it will always be a classic in my book. I will never get enough of Lieutenant Picard in a blue uniform, raging to Q that he’d rather die than live a less-than-remarkable life.
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MusicalTurtle
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 5:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Armageddon Game

Hated the way the ending just had to undermine Keiko. She was believable for me in this episode and I wish they'd left it at 'she really does know her husband'.

@Michael I like the revisions!

I did wonder if it was easily curable and less contagious because they were human, and the aliens' physiology was different. I don't think the writers had that in mind though, otherwise they should have mentioned it and not left it to look like a plot hole.

Also, I could be wrong but wasn't altering memory engrams still risky in the 24th C? It's been a while since watching any other Trek though so I may have forgotten or be confused with something else.
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Paul Hardwick
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 5:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Miri

I watched this episode today for the first time since I was a kid and I was genuinely impressed with the build up. Very eerie setting and the kids playing havoc with the new grups by throwing things at them at singing the "nyah nyah, na nyah nyah" was just brilliant. When the zombie like creature first enters at the start when Bones takes an uncharacteristic interest in the wheel of trike was an excellent action sequence with some great (for the day) makeup.

The premise is both intriguing and absurd. With a little more care with the writing, perhaps allowing some better character development and maybe playing off the whole Kirk, Miri and Jand love triangle with more aplomb may have led this episode becoming a true classic.

Unfortunately we have some jarring dialogue (Bones : I've never seen so much bacteria, enterprise, send down some virus scanners!) and kirks final speech is pretty lame. The ending left me agog with the Enterprise leaving orbit and leaving the kids there on the planet!

So a great start to the episode but it doesn't meet its promise of a true classic.
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MusicalTurtle
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 5:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Rivals

Enjoyable fluff, for me. I would love to know if Bashir's bizarre warm-up was directed or improvised. Rom made me laugh, and I loved Keiko in this. They're not very consistent writing for her throughout the series and it's nice to see her like this (I also thought she was very believable in the Harvesters episode).

This is one I'll happily rewatch - for me the best part of it is Bashir/O'Brien, but the rest is quite fun too.
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Peter G.
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 3:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Return of the Archons

@ Chrome,

"However, the episode isn't consistently anti-Christian as the solution to beating the machine is telling them how important soul and human spirit are (which is a message aligned with Christian values)."

Yeah, I would say that the message seems to be against what I would call 'fake Christianity', i.e. the sort of society that forces a bunch of conduct and for everyone to walk around pretending to be happy all the time. It's the Christian-shaped tyranny that I think is being criticized, which to be fair many Americans probably equate with Christianity as a whole anyhow. But I think Kirk and co. are effectively operating as "real Christians" here insofar as they see it as their obvious goal to save people who are in trouble and to help them start thinking for themselves.

I also agree that this is another "look for a better structure" type episode, and it's probably most like The Apple in that a happy-seeming people are told it's not good enough. The difference here is that the people aren't really happy, they're just forced into a mode of conduct that in reality leads to explosions. So basically the episode is saying this model doesn't work at all. In The Apple that type of society actually does work, but at the expense of keeping the people like children for all time. The Side of Paradise is actually a funny one and I'm not even sure where that one lands in Trek ethics. Basically it's a strange case of mutualistic parasitism where the spores get what they need and give the humans everything they need, albeit also at the expense of their ambitions. I feel like that one is closer to really asking "do people really need their ambitions, or are those just a means to get to the pleasure they want?"
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Bucktown
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 2:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Sleeping Dogs

"I cannot believe a race as obstinate, belligerent and primitive as the Klingons would ever have invented the wheel, never mind done anything useful with it. For them to be a warp-capable civilization is incredible. But anyway..."

Michael,

I forget where this came from precisely, but wasn't it established in canon in an earlier show that the Klingons stole all their advanced technology (including warp) from the Romulans? Of course the Romulans wouldn't have any kind of Prime Directive, and the Klingons becoming warp capable centuries before they naturally would explains a lot.
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