Comment Stream

Search and bookmark options Close
Search for:
Search by:
Clear bookmark | How bookmarks work
Note: Bookmarks are ignored for all search results

Total Found: 74,123 (Showing 1-25)

Next ►Page 1 of 2,965
Set Bookmark
Guiding Light
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 7:56am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Amazing start to a sitcom. Knows its Star Trek and dares poke fun at it while still being clearly Star Trek. It's great to have something genuinely fun in these trying times. Say what you will, but between Discovery, Picard and this we're living in a golden age of Star Trek.
Set Bookmark
Karl Zimmerman
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 7:53am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

The animation style that Lower Decks is done in is very popular now. It's thin-line animation, sometimes jokingly called "CalArts." Examples include Adventure Time, Stephen Universe, Gravity Falls, etc. You could go broader and say it's part of the same "family" of western animation used for The Simpsons, Family Guy, Bob's Burgers, etc.

Honestly thinking of a modern 2D animated series which doesn't use this style (other than those heavily influenced by anime, and series explicitly created to be retro like Archer) is difficult.
Set Bookmark
WTBA
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 7:33am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

In case others didn't see. Discovery S3 is premiering on OCTOBER 15th.
Set Bookmark
CaptainMercer
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 6:38am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Sure, it was made by adults for adults. Sure, but the drawings still look like kid drawings.. intentionally. I mena I love Ren and Stimpy and they look like kid drawings.. but if you have watched and Stimpy there is an extra edge to the art style that was most certianly unique, as shown by the closeups. This looks possiitively cheap. This is just my opinion, by Star Trek is, at its base a drama.. in fact the reason Star Trek comedy episodes work is that they subvert the fact that it is a drama at base.. it's a relief from the heaviness, often shot in the same style as the heavy episodes. That's why it's funny. That's why I objected to the gimmicky editing (the swoosh pans accompanied by sound effects, and the sound of beeping horns) in the original Orville trailer, because the actual show does not have that kind of editing. Star Trek doesn't either.. how it is shot and filmed is very much an important aspect of the show. In one half an hour, so much happened here that my eyes started to glaze over. I guess it's just not for me. Thinking about it, my favorite joke was the "Sulu" reference with regard to maneuvers
Set Bookmark
James
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 6:20am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I won't pass judgement just yet, it's too early, but a few impressions...

-It looks very nice. I like the design aesthetic much more than the other recent series.
-I hope the characters develop more distinct personalities. Yes, on paper, there's the rebellious one, the underling ensign who looks up to his superiors, the tech nerd who's more interested in science than romance. But they all talk the same way, and when a character's supposed to be say nervous or afraid, they don't talk like they are. I would say it's the actors fault, but somehow I think it's intentional and I don't think the creators care.
-I feel like I watched a highlights reel. There's no buildup to anything, just bam bam bam one thing after another. This applies to the theme music as well.
-Yes, everyone talks too fast, excess is the rule, and nothing is subtle. Again, intentional.

I think people generally want this kind of show. It's Rick and Morty Trek. It's not what I particularly want, but I have to accept that expecting Trek to go back to the TNG era is like expecting classical music to become the best selling music genre again. No big deal. If I don't continue watching, at least I'll save a bunch of time to spend on other things.
Set Bookmark
Tommy D.
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 3:41am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I do love the ship. I hope they release it in STO or at the very least I wouldn't mind a Hallmark Ornament.

Yes, I collect those :)
Set Bookmark
Sxottlan
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 3:11am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I thoroughly enjoyed “Second Contact,” more than the pilots of the last two series. Most of the humor landed for me. “Banana, hot” was wonderfully absurd and got the biggest laugh.

I already find myself caring about most of the characters. Mariner was kind of annoying, but there is also clearly the most developed back story of the show with this character that we’ll get to eventually.

The pacing was indeed an issue. So rapid fire. Not necessary. I don’t know why this has been a hallmark of CBS All Access Trek. However, it was also the pilot. Lots more info the convey. I hope that calms down.

I adore the ship. The attention to detail is fantastic.
Set Bookmark
SlackerInc
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 3:02am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

This is going to be a boring take, that leaves me looking like I don’t want to pick a side, but I thought it was...not bad, but not great. Like, say, 2.8 stars on Jammer’s 4 point scale.

I definitely laughed several times. But the joke density was a little low, and at least as many jokes missed as hit. I like the characters reasonably well and I was not bored.

But I want to say for anyone who assumes that, since this creator was a writer on Rick and Morty, that they have an idea of how good that show is. They definitely do not. Rick and Morty is pretty much four stars every time, although you would probably have to give some episodes 3.5 just to indicate which ones are your favorites.

I will probably not continue with the show, but not because I dislike it. There are just way too many good TV shows and movies out there, plus a lot of other aspects of life to live. If I were in a doctors waiting room and there was the typical assortment of TV shows on but also this, it’s likely this one would win out. But if I had the nearly unlimited choice of everything else on various streaming services, then it would not. Even if I had just CBSAA, I might be more likely to catch an episode of The Good Wife (I’m still in season five) or Young Sheldon (I have only watched four or five episodes of that and I’m starting to realize it’s actually a really good show).

So, TLDR: shrug emoji.
Set Bookmark
Randall Graves
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:56am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

"I know that is the traditional stick figures"
I don't think you do?

Unless you've been talking about some "non-traditional" form of "stick figures" all this time and just didn't bother to provide any other comparative examples of whatever that might look like.

"but your question is rhetorical."
It really wasn't rhetorical, I genuinely wonder how you can repeatedly make such a comparison when there is no logic in doing so?

"these are fifth or sixth grade human designs"
You keep saying that, but it's just manifestly, demonstrably not true?
I mean for a start, it's an art style that would have been chosen by a committee of adult working age artists from a range of probably many different concepts, then ok'ed by the equally adult show-runners, and the probably at least somewhat older than "fifth or sixth grade" people in charge at CBS?

It's like you've found what you think is a phrase that works, obvious factual innacuracy be damned, and are intent on repeating it in the hope of it becoming a popular soundbite among detractors.

I mean if you want to see a simple art style closer to "stick figures", take a look at Space Argument:

https://youtu.be/ZtNXanYemAM

Again, made by a team of adults, for adults, in an intentional style despite the fact that they could have chosen another.
Set Bookmark
Booming
Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 1:55am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I thought this was great. The colors, the acting, style and storytelling. If you enjoy suffering, you will love this.

And to the people defending this product I just want to say that the first part of this vid is for you and the second part is for "the hater rest".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYIMTgGUKk
Set Bookmark
OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 11:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I just love how this show is so amazingly great, that it's biggest defenders aren't even interested in talking about the show itself.

What's even funnier, is how these warriors always talk in superlatives and absolutes. Like, you either hate a show with all your guts, or it's the most wonderful greatest thing ever.

Not sure where all these guys come from. Are they payed shills? Bored kids who come to troll and raise a reaction? Genuine fans who misguidedly think that this kinds of exaggeration and aggression is needed to show their "allegiance"?

Dunno know. But whoever these guys are, they are making a terrible impression.

Thankfully, we've also had plenty of genuine positive comments by people who enjoyed the premier and just came here to talk about the show. Hope we'll see more of these in the future, and less war-mongering garbage.
Set Bookmark
Other Chris
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I turned it off halfway through. The ADD-induced style of comedy comes off as obnoxious. This wasn't made for me, and that's ok.
Set Bookmark
coidelor
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:14pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@ObviousStuntDouble

Agreed. I hope those comments do keep bleeding through, and I hope people have not been terminally cowed from making them. When the preconceived hatred started, I don’t know. The goalposts for what counts as “good” are moved as necessary to make sure that hatred of Amy new Star Trek is The One and Only Legitimate Reaction. 2+2=Alex Kurtzman sucks. Hang whatever Orwell metaphor on this hatred (which, alas. Is not limited to two minutes a day) you wish to.

In 2020, we are still debating When Star Trek Stopped Being Star Trek. The fact that the posters on this site who believe they are Our Betters cannot agree on an exact or even rough date shows there is room for disagreement as to what is good TV and good or “real” Star Trek.

The level of hatred for everything Star Trek filmed circa now...The attitude that “I say so, therefore it IS so...” it’s depressing. It’s a bummer. It sucks the air out of a room. There is no joy in it, and not much creativity (I used to love coming to this site for the creative commentary on actual episodes. Now, calling Alex Kurtzman “ghetto” or “rich boy” is considered Algonquin Hotel-esque, Moliereian wit). People are entitled to it, however informed or uniformed their opinions are, however spoken or unspoken their biases are. I respect, tolerate, and understand their arguments. They call people who disagree with them, brainwashed morons - based on nothing more than the fact the alleged morons have a different opinion (as opposed to trying to make an argument, which requires climbing down the steps of Mount I’m Right You’re Wrong, Moron, and engaging others’ arguments - an undignified task, I guess?) . This is uncalled for - especially with the degree of certitude with which it is proffered. It is not enough that these people have to be (and in their minds ARE) right, always. Everyone who disagrees with them must be name-called into oblivion and mocked to the Other Betters.

Having seen “Second Contact” (a claim half of the people who gave it no stars might not be able to make), I thought it was mostly a mess - like a record of greatest hits played at hyper speed. The only people who are likely to get all of the jokes are likely to find them uninspired. The mere utterance of the word “Bat’leth” is actually not funny. That having been said, I don’t think the show is or will be irredeemably bad. Maybe it will be, maybe not. I don’t have precognition, whether borne of confirmation bias or otherwise (or post-cognition, as in “somehow, I just knew it would be bad once I actually committed the slumming sin of ...watching it). Second Contact is one episode, which I evaluated by listening to and watching what was actually in front of me, with my ears and eyes instead of my mouth. This approach to criticism seems to have fallen out of favor, but I like its simplicity (simplemindedness?)

I’d like to know what the people who pre-hated the oven for this show actually find funny. Are they afraid to say, for fear they will be mocked for having a “sophomoric” or less-than-perfect sense of humor? Not only do they lecture on what is good Trek; now they lecture on what is and is not funny. Well, give me some examples from outside of Star Trek. Name a movie or TV show that whose humor was such that it made you laugh with it, not at it.

Someone once said, “vulgarity is less self-destructive than snobbery.” I believe some people on this site would actually do just that - self-destruct - rather than admit they were entertained by something vulgar, something that was trashy fun - Star Trek or anything else. Once you admit to having actually enjoyed something , to finding it honestly entertaining, vulgar or not, you admit that your superior judgment (I really like hearing the latest in arrogance (“arrogant presumption”’-posing-as-humility peroration: “Well, we are complaining because we see something we loved that stood for progressivism and for a positive future has been trashed” - The equivalent of a 24th-century courtroom speech by Colonel Brady, of Inherit the Wind) except delivered with hate)... is guided by the same (gasp!) thought process used by mere mortals.
Set Bookmark
CaptainMercer
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Randall Graves I know that is the traditional stick figures, but your question is rhetorical. these are fifth or sixth grade human designs
Set Bookmark
Randall Graves
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 9:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@CaptainMercer

Seen you repeatedly use the phrase "stick figures" for some reason - are you seriously suggesting that this:

https://i.dlpng.com/static/png/6008594-stick-figure-icons-png-dlpngcom-stick-figures-png-400_400_preview.png

is in any way comparable to the art style of Lower Decks?
Set Bookmark
CaptainMercer
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 9:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Tax_the_Churches
Let's not be disingenuous here. If I looked at the first Clone Wars movie and said that the animation made all the characters look like wood cuts would I be wrong? I say that despite what talent the animators had or did not have the characters in Lower decks are drawn to look like stick figures you'd see a fifth grader do. That was how they wanted them to look in the final product so me saying that does not diss their talent. In fact, it would not matter if it did. Most critics never make films, but they still call many films terrible just as a way of criticizing the work.. it's fair game .. they might even say a filmmkaer is a talentless hack when that filmmaker has at least MADE a film and the critic has not . To say I'm giving a disservice to the "hard work" that went into this is being disingenuous. It would be like me saying you are or doing disservice to all the hard work that went into the Orville because you did not like it and therefor did not watch all the episodes

As for the voice acting.. clearly editing was happening as people that would normally take a breath between two or three consecutive lines of dialogue would need to breathe and I would bet anything that those breaths were edited out in post, much the way a good editor like Jeremy Jahns can make his quick cut movie reviews where he does not SEEM to pause work. I find this style abhorrent for star trek. If you like it that is fine. I also felt that since set up and timing of jokes is often as important as the jokes themselves, the short run time did not offer the most comic potential that this episode has. Sure they cna keep it at 26 minutes, but instead of setting up and paying off the humor, they often rushed through it. It wound up not being funny to me. I guess maybe that is me. I laugh at Ed Mercer because the character seems like a human to me
Set Bookmark
Cody B
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 9:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Obvious Stunt Double

This conversation has been had many times. People are allowed to dislike a show. People are allowed to SAY they dislike a show. I don’t see anyone who says they liked it being attacked do you? Your line of thinking of calling people’s comments “a boiling septic tank” and “pre-conceives hatred” (I’m not seeing “hatred” at all. I’m seeing thought out points of view though) could be reversed to the opposite and one could talk of the people who always toe the Trek company line. Ready to praise whatever comes out of the conveyer belt no matter the non coherent plot or hastily slapped together shoddy comedy. If you like the show that’s great tell us why. If you don’t like the show please do the same.
Set Bookmark
Mal
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 9:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: The Void

for @Diamond Dave:

https://youtu.be/gR34PJOl3K8

Cooperation, makes it happen
Cooperation, working together
Dig it!
Cooperation, makes it happen
Cooperation, working together

I saw these crazy dudes
And they went out on the street
They were cleanin' out the empty lot
And makin' it neat
I said, "Man is this cool
What you tryin' to do?"
They said, "Makin' a garden
For me and for you."

They said:
Hey man, join us
Come on, let's go
Together we can make a pretty garden grow

Girl: I'll dig a hole

Guy: And I'll plant a seed

Together: And we can add the water
That all growin' things need

Cooperation, makes it happen
Cooperation, working together
Dig it!
Cooperation, makes it happen
Cooperation, working together

https://youtu.be/gR34PJOl3K8
Set Bookmark
Obvious Stunt Double
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 9:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Making a genuinely appreciative, positive comment on this board seems to be the equivalent of throwing a hand grenade into an unnecessarily boiling septic tank, so it's nice to see a few people's nicer opinions bleeding through, who obviously didn't go in with a pre-conceived hatred.
Set Bookmark
Karl Zimmerman
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 9:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I understand the criticism that the bridge crew in LDS seem like jerks. However, IIRC, in the TNG episode Lower Decks we see our favorite characters from the perspective of the ensigns, and they come across as intimidating and even a bit jerkish. I think that's the point - not that they're objectively jerkish, but that the lens we see them through is that of the ensigns. They are authority figures, not our peers, and thus can be treated the same way that the average Trek series treats admirals.
Set Bookmark
Karl Zimmerman
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 9:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Jokes I genuinely smirked at:

* Banana hot
* "Computer show us the warp core"
* Rutherford and his Trill date attempting to try and continue their date small talk/flirting in the midst of the "zombie virus" thing was in general hilarious.
* Boimler getting attacked by the spider cow thing was also pretty funny...I mean "It will spoil the milk?" Watched the scene a second time and it still makes me smile.
* "Everyone, protect this slime!"

A lot of other jokes fell flat for me - particularly the opening and closing. But the show had "heart" in a way that I feel Discovery and Picard have not.
Set Bookmark
Tax_The_Churches
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 8:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@CodyB

"The humor didn’t work."

Again - it did work, for me. Which is why I laughed, several times. For differing reasons, depending on the situation.

I laughed at the 'blink and you'll miss it" moment in the shuttlebay when the name of one of the shuttles, (all named after Trek filming locations!) was partially obscured so the word "Valley" was hidden, and the shuttle appeared to be simply named "Death" and I immediately thought of "The Gallileo Seven".

I laughed at the moment of horrible realisation in the first officers' tone of voice when asking if he'd eaten flesh - that's dark, morbid humour, and I liked it. You might not - I did.

I laughed at the Admirals' manner of signing off to Captain Newsome, because it was a personally relatable moment of current day method of speech juxtaposed with the style of Trek where you wouldn't normally hear it - sometimes, it's the incongruance of things that makes me laugh.

I laughed at "That's my heart, it hurts when you pump it!" and I laughed at the fact that they had that operation taking place without any explanation of how the guy ended up having open heart surgery in the middle of that Rage Virus situation just to really throw poor Ensign Tendi in at the deep end on her first day.

I laughed at "Banana, hot." I don't really see the necessity of launching into an explanation of why I did, but I most certainly did.

"It’s not well thought out jokes and I don’t think you can even argue they are."

I appear to have just done exactly that. People on this board seem to have an utter inability to process the notion that other people might have a differing sense, or even range of senses of humour than themselves.

Fuck, I'll say right here and now that Commander Shax has already said "Detonate The Warp Core" enough for my ears after one episode and I hope it doesn't become a catchphrase, but I'm not slating the entire episode because of that one minor thing.
Set Bookmark
Rahul
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 8:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Man, was that ever stupid. Certainly tried to cram an awful lot into half an hour with every character talking at warp speed. The pacing was on steroids. The whole thing is an insult to classic Trek. I didn’t laugh once even though this is supposed to be a comedy.

As for the characters — can not even one of them come across as a normal person who could conceivably actually belong on Star Fleet, serving in something like a military or diplomatic capacity on a star ship?

And who is this show intended for? The show gets a warning for violence, nudity and mature subject matter so it can’t be intended for kids.

But it’s not quite fair to compare Lower Decks with classic Trek as it is an altogether different product being just half an hour and animated. It can’t tell in-depth standalone stories and can’t have stellar acting performances. The acting was actually terrible. It is basically a gimmick to profit from the rich heritage of the Trekverse.

There are some classic Trek episodes that I believe have done a massive disservice to the franchise and that should not have been produced. I tend to rate those episodes zero or 0.5 stars and so that’s where “Second Contact” would rate if I applied the same criteria.

One its own, if I think about the story told, the characters, any interesting themes or premises touched upon and what STLD is trying to achieve as a product, I still find it extremely disappointing. I suppose there are some seeds being planted like what to do about the Mariner character, Boimler’s and Tendi’s development and getting promoted. But should the senior officers and captain really come across as such jerks?

It’s only one episode, but what is particularly disappointing is that STLD doesn’t seem to have the respect and appreciation of what came before it and instead has as its modus operandi to use the Trekverse as a basis for cheap humour. That, to me as someone who has a deep appreciation for classic Trek, is just awful. I can’t identify with this style of humour. It’s like when I watched the ORV pilot I felt that the show was not my cup of tea -- granted I hear it has evolved from the mainstay of locker-room humour into something more thoughtful and classically Trekkian. Will STLD be able do that? Being animated and half hour in length work against achieving that laudable objective, but perhaps if the pacing slows down and we get less gore, there might be a drop of merit to be found. But so far I see none.
Set Bookmark
Cody B
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 8:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Tax_the_churches

The humor didn’t work. The one time a joke almost landed was when all that chaos is going on during Rutherford’s date and they say “let’s get out of here” and spacewalk on the outside of the ship while everyone inside is killing each other. The humor is that “lul so random lul so funny. Me talky fast!” style which just isn’t funny. It’s not well thought out jokes and I don’t think you can even argue they are.
Set Bookmark
Tax_The_Churches
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 8:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@CaptainMercer

"Humor is all about tinibg and delivery. If this episode was an hour long and allowed scenes to vreathe, then maybe the hunor would have worked."

The humour did work, just not for you. And I suspect that was because you went into it not wanting it to work. That's just confirmation bias.
There was no reason why the show needed to be any longer than it actually was - in the time it had, it introduced all the characters and the ship, established their role within Starfleet and managed to tell two main plots, one planet based, the other ship based, and throw in a sub-plot as well that also got resolved. It seemed to me that it achieved exactly what it set out to do in the format it has.

"On love action you have lighting, and talented actirs that have to gold the sfreen. Here its stick figures."

Are you actually trying to explain that animation and live-action are different things, as if people would otherwise not have realised? What response are you expecting to that, other than "No shit, Sherlock?"
The voice actors on this show did a damn fine job with this episode, they have talent in spades. I mean, it is their job after all. They didn't get the gig through a lack of understanding of charcacter, pitch and intonation did they?
And this animation style is far from "stick figures" - it might not be your personal cup of tea, but don't do it a disservice by describing it as "cheap" when it is anything but. That's just plain dishonest. Expert colour, fluid motion, consistent character design throughout. It wasn't like some churned out anime serial where there's a noticable drop in the quality of character design and animation even from one scene to the next.

"they squandered a better plot for cheap and hyperactive animation."

I don't think you understand how budget, animation and writing work as seperate concepts, let alone in concert with each other. What process do you think they follow when developing a show of this kind? The writers work to what their budget is, the animators then work to within the limits of what they are budgeted for, over the lengthy period of time it takes to pull off such animation. It's not the other way around, they can't animate first and then write the plot of the episode later.
Have you even bothered to look into how much money it takes to create a show of this nature, between writing, storyboarding, animating, colouring, the 3D ship animations, the voice actors' wages? "Cheap" is the last word you could use to describe this.

You disservice the obvious hard work that has gone into this, and I recognise these things despite the fact that I have never worked in animation, voice-acting, or writing of any kind.

Hell, I laughed quite a few times at this, and I'm sure I'll grin just as much when I rewatch it looking for all the easter eggs, while still being aware that my opinion of the plot and humour could vary enormously on the next episode, and then pivot back to praising it by the third, depending on their subjective content, but I'll never shit all over the hard working people who have clearly worked their asses off on the visual side of things, even if they let the occasional goof through (of which I saw none) because the other 99.99% of it will still never look as if it's been knocked up in under a week as a Flash movie.
Next ►Page 1 of 2,965
▲Top of Page | Menu | Copyright © 1994-2020 Jamahl Epsicokhan. All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication or distribution of any content is prohibited. This site is an independent publication and is not affiliated with or authorized by any entity or company referenced herein. See site policies.