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Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 8:01am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Valiant

Not a perfect episode, but good enough. Star Trek is a somewhat authoritarian show in that the chain-of-command is often seen as absolute and as an end unto itself. Where is democracy in the Trek universe? Why do we never see the characters voting on anything?

This is a nice change-of-pace episode that critically examines the chain-of-command and its authoritarian tangents. The medals, the obsession with rank, the absolute was great to see a critical light cast on these story telling elements that traditionally Trek rarely challenges.
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Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 7:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: The Wire

@Cody B-

Because Andrew J. Robinson is one of the best actors in the franchise, and Garak is one of the best written characters in the whole franchise. I'm not whether people actually love him as a 'good guy', but if they do, that's not the writers' fault. They clearly portrayed as a scheming, manipulative individual who'll do anything, *anything*, to get the job done.
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William B
Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 6:48am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Distant Voices


"--I thought "Julian's" (I'm confused about this actor's name) performance was very uneven, some winceworthy parts and some good parts."

He went by Siddig El Fadil in s1-3, then changed his name to Alexander Siddig for s4-7. I think he was called Sid by cast members. So...Siddig is probably the simplest way to refer to him, for all seasons :)

"--Letheans almost always lethal. Subtly thy name is not "Distant Voices.""

I also thought the name was a reference to the river of forgetfulness surrounding Hades from Greek mythology (like Lethe's bramble from OMWF -- from Buffy from those not in the know). Of course lethal has the same root. Parts of Bashir are "forgotten" as they die off and he prematurely ages.

"--I wondered about Garak's holobook gift, too: The Cardassian mystery where everyone's guilty, you just have to figure out how each one is guilty. But Julian is human and he gives himself more of a human mystery story, the kind where the suspects drop off to one. At least, that's what I think is going on there. The writers surprisingly forgot to have Julian say, "Ah-hah, so you're the guilty one, Garak! You're actually the Lethean! I've figured it out just like in a the human mystery novel, just as we talked about in Scene One!" So I can't be sure. :)"

Maybe, it's also a signal that even though the mystery is solved at the end -- the Lethean did it, and it was "Garak" who represented him in story -- there is still a question. If everyone is guilty of something, and the question is to determine who is guilty of what, what is Bashir guilty of? We get some possibilities, but Bashir shoots them down -- he's "guilty" of not acing his medical exam, of not succeeding with Jadzia, of aging at all, etc., but those aren't it. Maybe something to ponder.

Garak is fun but even there, I tend to prefer actual-Garak over dreamscape-fake-alien Garak.
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Basso Stinks
Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 12:13am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

C'mon chaps! A collaborator is a different thing. The reference to WWII "comfort women" is so clear that nobody inserting brain could confuse 'em with collaborators. Basso was a collaborator. He was pleased of his "work" in helping cardies more than a oberkapo. Search for "comfort women" on Wikipedia: it's rape, nothing more, nothing less.

Btw, Meru's falling in love (or Stockholm syndrome) for Dukat is debatable, of course... But a collaborator is a different thing.
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Sean Hagins
Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 12:00am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S7: Drive

An enjoyable episode.

I have to say, I agree with the people who say they don't understand what Tom sees in B'lanna. She has an abrasive personality, she doesn't really share Tom's interests, and she's not very attractive at all (in my opinion) Still, it was good they got married.

I do feel bad for Harry. He always seems to get the short end of the stick

I don't get either why people dislike Neelix, Harry, and to a lesser extent, Chakotay. In my opinion, the person who was most annoying in this episode of Tuvok! Trying to do a weekly report when it was obvious everyone in the room was into the race-an unemotional Vulcan doesn't mean purposely being a killjoy!
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Emmett L. Brown
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 11:53pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

Great Scott!
I've not understood: was this a real time travel or a sort of "Q-style" vision-reflection-teaching-whatever in "Tapestry" (TNG)? How long our beloved and "forever young" Dukat has been in charge on Bajor and/or Terok Nor? 30? He said that under his administration crimes as in Gallitep ("Duet") were no more allowed... So, Dukat dared to lie to MEEEEEE????!!! And again... Was this a real time travel or not?

What a headache... I need to watch Kira's picture with her brothers, Dave and Linda McFly (of course), to understand the mess within this episode... :-D
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 11:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S3: Chosen Realm

I'm sorry, but did you just compare all white people to a death bringing scourge? Sounds kind of bigoted to me.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S3: Chosen Realm


1979, the year when Iran overthrew their western puppet government? When the Zionist entity was forced to give back the Sinai peninsula?

“Islamic terrorism” is a misnomer. If you abuse someone for centuries, they’re going to respond. The West has occupied and ethnically cleansed entire countries and that’s just fine by you but desperate people fight back and that’s an outrage?

Anyhow, this is a moot conversation. Whether you like it or not, hate speech is illegal in most of the world (and before you go on about hate speech against whites, there is no such thing, just as there is no such thing as bigotry against the flu, it is reasonable and logical to despise a death bringing scourge) and soon it will be in Yankland as well. You belong in jail and to be perfect frank so does the person hosting this site and the writers of this episode as well.

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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:44pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Distant Voices

After reading commentary:

--Surprised to read comments about this being an original idea. Person in a coma hallucinating? Characters representing parts of the main character? Nothing new there at all.

--I thought "Julian's" (I'm confused about this actor's name) performance was very uneven, some winceworthy parts and some good parts.

--I wondered about Garak's holobook gift, too: The Cardassian mystery where everyone's guilty, you just have to figure out how each one is guilty. But Julian is human and he gives himself more of a human mystery story, the kind where the suspects drop off to one. At least, that's what I think is going on there. The writers surprisingly forgot to have Julian say, "Ah-hah, so you're the guilty one, Garak! You're actually the Lethean! I've figured it out just like in a the human mystery novel, just as we talked about in Scene One!" So I can't be sure. :)

--I wouldn't put this ep in the same room with the true stinkers, but it's right outside the stinker-room door.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Distant Voices

Watching and commenting:

--Ok. Bashir has been zapped by an alien, Altovar, who was attempting to steal "bio-mimetic gel" from his lab. Red Alert!! Red Alert!! Consequences ahead.

--Julian is aging . . . and . . . there's a monster . . . on the station??

--Seems like he's hallucinating or some such thing. We get the unsurprising reveal that Julian's in a coma.

--The writers are having Julian spoon feed us the connections. "Kira is my aggression." "Sisko represents my professionalism and skill." Lots and lots and lots of anvil dropping.

--I hope I am never in a coma.

--Letheans almost always lethal. Subtly thy name is not "Distant Voices."

Garak was fun, as always. Otherwise unremarkable.
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Dave in MN
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 8:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

I can't wait!
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Nol Lon
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 7:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

One thing that has always appealed to me about the Japanese media industry is that a story is the way a story is mostly viewed as the brainchild of its author, not as a "franchise" owned by a media company. (Not to say it hasn't viewed authors as fungible, there just doesn't seem to be the quite the same cargo-cult delusion that stories and their authors are somehow *separately* fungible.)

I wish American media companies would be more willing to break with old franchises, rather than try to keep each new generation of artists trapped in the media landscape of the Baby Boomers and their parents created. The hold that era has on the public imagination does seem to be breaking down now, albeit slowly. I think xenophobia also plays a role in this as it seems to me the media-sphere views the decades before global communications as a sort of stronghold of pure Americana unsullied by foreign incursions (the Beatles et al notwithstanding.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 3:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: True Q

My favorite scene in this episode was when Q appears in the observation lounge to join the discussion about Amanda...

Troi: Amanda's a Q?

Crusher: How is that possible? Her biological parents were human!

Q: Well, not exactly. They had assumed human form in order for visit Earth, I suppose for amusement... but in vulgar human fashion, they proceeded to conceive a child. (Winks at Crusher, who then rolls her eyes) ... And then like mawkish humans they became attached to it. What is it about these squirming little infants that you find so appealing?

Crusher: I'm sure that's beyond your comprehension, Q.

Q: I desperately hope so.


LaForge: Are you saying that you created a core breach just to test this girl?

Q: Uh-huh.

Troi: What would have happened if she couldn't stop it?

Q: Then I would have known she wasn't a Q.

Great stuff. I couldn't stop chuckling for minutes.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 2:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

For me the enthusiasm lessened with Voyager. It was the first show I didn't watch till the end. Enterprise took what I didn't like about Voyager and kind of made it worse. In TNG and DS9 I cared about the characters. VOY and Enterprise I didn't.
In DS9 almost anybody had an arc. Sisko emotionally devastated widower to confident emissary. Kira battle hardened, traumatized unable to trust outsiders to compassionate fighter for the freedom of her former enemies. And so on. TNG was a little weaker on that front but most characters were engaging. Everybody hated that Risa-Worf episode in DS9 which I actually liked because it gave us the deepest insight into why Worf is such a strange fellow. I hated the episode were Sisko gassed a planet to get Eddington . Sisko should be in Jail or killed by marquis assassins. Sure there is the gender bender trannies are silly episode with Quark which is terrible but the let's gas planets to get a rebel leader still makes me cringe.
So DS9 and TNG gave me the whole emotional spectrum because I cared about these shows. The only hate I felt for VOY was for 7 of 9 probably even more than Kate Mulgrew because it was so obvious why they brought her on. Apart from that there were a few things I liked but it just didn't move me and it was even worse with Enterprise. Here they included the model/sex bomb from the beginning. And I cared even less. it was after 9/11 and every cultural product from the US was already seen trough that lens. Go jingo! In hindsight I'm not sure that there was actually that much triumphalism and american machismo.
Until the last episode I would say that DIS was a little more engaging than VOY but not necessarily in a good way. I didn't like the looks of the Klingons and the way they sounded. I also wasn't a fan of the general art style. Everything was so dark. I only cared about Saru and Rapp's character. Saru because he was the most trekkian character and Rapp grew on me in the whole time loop episode but maybe it is because he is gay(in real life). Could be.
And then came the last episode which I found very bad. Terrible almost. Apart from the fact that the Federation wanted to genocide their way out of a war but the rushed writing style really threw me off even though a few jokes worked for me and I liked the glimpses of Kronos we got.
Where does that leave me. TNG and DS9 were important parts of my life but life has to go on. I will always remember them fondly. Maybe DIS will get better. That would be a nice bonus or maybe not then that wouldn't diminish what TNG and DS9 meant for me. It gave me hope for a better world while sitting in a small rural town in northern Germany thinking that everybody would hate me if they actually knew me.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 1:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Let He Who Is Without Sin...

I didnt find this episode all that bad until Worfs insane soccor speech. Holy crap what the heck were they thinking??? Totally unneeded scene anyway. Well thankfully we can just ignore that detail going forward......

This episode is a real stinker but would have been harmless except for that awful worf speech.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 1:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion


"Where did Trek go wrong? Was it when Deep Space Nine altered what Trek was supposed to be about that it's practically unrecognizable from Gene Roddenberry's vision? Is it the 10-year bout of sustained mediocrity with Voyager and Enterprise? How did we get here? How do we fix it? (Personally, I think the Powers that Be need to study up on what made TOS and TNG what they were. Examine what made those two shows work beyond the superficiality of Klingons, Tribbles, and green animal women.)"

The only difference in DS9 from TNG and TOS was is wasn't stationed on a Star Ship. They still explored humanity, met new races and projected Gene's "vision".

Star Trek Voyager WAS TNG-lite aside from boring Picard speechs every episode. While I love Picard and a lot of his rants, it was a bit much at times. Also, you trumpet "Gene's vision" a lot.... TNG didn't take off until Gene got his hands out of the kitchen - you do know that right?

IMO what we got in Enterprise was fantastic, but I didn't learn to hate B&B like many did. I can understand some "fatigue", but it was more "B&B fatigue" than "Franchise fatigue" that I heard trumpeted around the boards back in the mid 2000's.

There is no fanbase ever that eats it's own like StarTrek's does. I first came to after I had purchased and watched Enterprise because I wanted to find out why it was cancelled. I was floored at the vitriol online concerning this series I had just watched and enjoyed.

I've repeatedly watched all the series and love them all for what they bring to the table. I even include Discovery in that list because for the most part, I enjoyed season 1 there too. (ranked the individual episodes very highly) Admittedly, there are more "personal hurdles" to get over with STD, but for the most part I enjoyed it. Visually, it dwarfs every other series before it and aside from the appearance of the Klingons I'm happy with all the other Star Trek races (aside from the male Orion slaves). I also enjoy all the actors minus SMG's inablity to show any realistic emotion.

JJ's movies were pretty damn good minus the ending of STiD and a few other quibbles. STB was for all intents and purposed a glorified TOS episode.

So let's "examine" what made TOS and TNG "work".

TOS was the first of it's kind and technically didn't "work". It didn't pull in the required ratings and got cancelled after 3 seasons. It wasn't until reruns that it really became a cult hit show.

TNG was also alone in the market and as a result garnered quite the fanbase. would the preachy Picard and company fare well in a market like DS9/VOY/ENT were in? Could they have sustained a crappy newtork like VOY and ENT were asked to do? Would you pay CBS All Access to watch any of these series? (having not seen any of them before) TNG and DS9 had it made in syndicaton. Could any of these shows survive for 7 years in today's marketplace?

I don't think it's possible for any SCI-FI show to last as long and be as beloved as our trek shows were in today's environment. I mean look at 'The Expanse' ... one of the seasons got 100% from the critics on rotten tomatoes and it got cancelled.

Look at your comment... "superficial Klingons" (STD). Now their appearance was all hosed up, but their actions were pretty much in keeping with the Klingons of any time period. But some refuse to see past appearances. Do I like the look?, Do I like the subtitles? ... no, but I can easily see the actions taken in Discovery as Klingon.

Whom should I quote here....

McCoy? - "I know engineers, they LOVE to change things" (each trek is different)

Picard? - "Live now; make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again" (We only get to see new threk the first time once, enjoy it)

Sisko? - " I'm not Picard." (DS9 is not TNG.....STD is different too)

Janeway? - "Three years ago I didn't even know your name. today, I can't imagine a day without you." (how I felt the first time I watched each series for the first time)

T'Pol? - "She was important." (what we all might say about Discovery after it gets time to find it's legs, just like all the spin-offs did)

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:44am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Visionary

After reading commentary;

--Yes, it was interesting that Sisko mentioned the "they like to sit back and watch" and "not make the first move" characteristic of the Romulans . . . when in fact, they were planning a hugely aggressive "first strike" the whole time. I suppose this fits with some of the "What makes you, you?" questions the ep brings up.

--Who's the Visionary here? Maybe it's the Romulans. After all, was closing the wormhole such a bad idea?

--Sure, tons of techno babble, obvious and unlikely "need it to move the plot forward" contrivance, obvious reset ahead, etc . . . but I can't enjoy Trek worrying myself too much about all that. For myself, it's not so much, "well, those criticisms can fall by the wayside if the ep is otherwise compelling" as it is "those criticisms should always fall by the wayside," and judge the ep from there, when it comes to Trek.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:56am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Visionary

Watching and commenting

-O'Brien hurt and needs to rest. But he's really hurt and hallucinating . . . or something.

--The Alpha Quadrant trying to come together to protect themselves from the Dominion. It's rough going.

--O'Brien goes forward in time and saves himself from a Klingon! I have a feeling my "don't think too hard about it" time paradox philosophy will have to come into play here.

--Something there is that doesn't love O'Brien.

--Cool graphic of the station exploding.

--Wow, every time O'Brien goes five hours in the future, life-threatening events are occurring!

--O'Brien willing to risk his life to save thousands, except they were already planning to evacuate the station . . . why nearly kill his husband and father self, just to save that big hunk of metal?

--Yowza! Cool trick!! O'Brien replaces O'Brien. O'Brien dies but doesn't die.

--Julian says "you're O'Brien, just with a few extra memories," which isn't quite right. He's O'Brien, with a few more, and a few less, memories.

I liked it overall. It's a pretty crazy premise, but was well handled.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:32am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Yes, Booming, no worries. Sorry for the confusion.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Thanks for clarifying Mertov. ;)
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:15am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

(Just for clarification purposes)
Booming, it has nothing to do with you. Jammer's talking about the spat Omicron and I got into yesterday.
And yes, it's Jammer's site/forum, his request should be honored.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 8:52am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Live long and prosper. :)
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 8:51am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Sorry Jammer, This is your forum. It was not my intention to cause you discomfort.
Life long and prosper!
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Jason R.
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 8:13am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Waltz

I was watching Return to Grace the other day and admired the nuances of Marc Alamo's performance. I loved how even as he did a seemingly noble thing in sacrificing his career for his daughter, everything really was all about him. His description of his fall from grace to Kira is so manipulative.

He even used that love for his daughter as a tool to draw Kira closer into his orbit. Although this is strictly my head canon, I highly doubt that Dukat being chosen for this mission was co-incidence. Dukat undoubtedly volunteered for the assignment. He needed to show Kira what he had sacrificed, to see her with his daughter and how noble he was. The entire situation was a setup - a delicious opportunity to feed his ego.

Indeed, I'm also convinced that his decision to permit Zial to stay with Kira was another subtle manipulation, a means to keep Kira joined with him, connected despite her revulsion at his advances.

Dukat has always been an immensely self-serving manipulator. His characterization never really changed, even when it was shown he was capable of affection, even love.

I don't see his behaviour in Waltz as cartoonish or detached from his prior characterizations. The Bajoran people rejected him, which for an egotist like Dukat was an unacceptable slight. Like an abusive husband who chooses to kill his family rather than let his wife leave him, Dukat turned homicidal when he realized the Bajorans would never affirm him as he sought (with Sisko as their placeholder). For someone like him, true rejection was an unforgiveable slight.

The scale of his fury may have been grander than a garden variety family annihilator, but that's just because Dukat had so much greater means in his position and with his abilities. Hate is hate.

To me Waltz isn't a break from Dukat's previous characterization, but the affirmation of it. I agree with Peter that in Waltz we see who Dukat was all along.
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Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 7:15am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Ship


Yeah, exactly. The Muniz stuff almost works, but he just has one too few appearances.
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