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Silly
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 7:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S1: Broken Bow

Bleh. Sure, early installments of new Trek shows are often clunky and flawed. But in Enterprise, it never gets better, all the flaws are set in stone right from the start.

Commenters above are right- Bakula’s Archer has no gravitas. It’s hard to get excited when watching a wet dirty sock. There is at least an in-story reason, he got the job by nepotism. He’s got such a Sam Becket “oh well shucks” vibe, it’s hard to get excited.

Personally, I don’t think Bakula is a very good actor at all.

The premise that Starfleet isn’t out exploring because the Vulcans have held them back for decades is ... how shall we put this ... insanely ridiculously ludicrously absurdly laughable.
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Steve Jobs
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 7:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

Imagine being a decorated officer with years of service and you get promoted over by an Ensign. Must be great for crew morale.
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Quincy
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:59pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

Almost forgot, happy Thanksgiving people.
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Quincy
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

I enjoyed this episode. I didn't think I was going to like it in the beginning, but all the cylinders slowly rolled into place as the episode went on. The Burn information explained why Vance has been looking cagey whenever Burnham brought up the Burn. Did Starfleet cause the Burn? Find out as we cross the midpoint of the season.

I groaned and laughed when I saw her mother standing there. The episode made perfect sense to have Burnham front and center for obvious reasons, much to the chagrin of disgruntled onlookers. But inserting her mother here? Not the way I would've introduced her into the story. I loved the Qowat Milat callback to Picard, however, I didn't see her mother fitting in there.

But it turned out to be the best part of the episode. Her mother savaged Burnham. Her words cut her to her quick. That priceless look on Burnham's face was like, "wtf are you doing, mama?!?" I could see the white meat after the slashes and Burnham's blood dripping from her mother's sharp tongue. And I'm not a Burnham hater by any means. That's my girl. But damn that was vicious. All that was missing was the Mortal Kombat voice saying, "BRUTALITY! Finish her!"

It didn't bother me that Tilly got the first officer position. I figured she would get it despite being an Ensign, which she'll probably be till the day she dies or at least until she's promoted off screen post series continuity. She is OFFICIALLY the Ensign Kim of Discovery now. I really dislike the character, but with all other DSC excesses she's also been reigned in somewhat. Thus her character has become a tad bit tolerable. Nhan would've made a better first officer. No one else in the cast fits that position or is well known enough to insert. I don't want them to introduce another character. And I really don't want them to insert that Lieutenant Willa that accompanied them in Die Trying. Perhaps, Nhan will complete her mission and rejoin the crew as the permanent first officer before the end of the season or maybe next season.

The new showrunner has done a good job of reigning in DSC's excess, but they still need to reign in the Burnham wank I have to admit. It's going way beyond the prior standard Kirk wank now. I lol'd with "headline, Michael Burnham is coming" line. (I can see the Burnham haters boiling in their own blood. That alone gives me true joy and made the comment worth the putridity.) However, the inner cringe was strong with this one with that callback to Burnham being the source of the man Spock became. If only I could summon Mjölnir to aid me in beating to death and dismemberment the person or persons responsible for inserting that nonsense into the end of last season and daring to remind us of it this season.

I shook my head at that comment about science being inseparable "from cultural and political context." Sure, the history of the absolutely crap stained relationship between science, politics, and culture is no secret. However, we'd better learn to separate it, at some point in our future, or else we're not going to be capable of solving the hard problems we need to survive this century. Because real answers to the necessary questions will always be at the beck and call of the current aholes in power, their cronies, and the useful masses. The universe doesn't care about your sociopolitical leanings and it absolutely will find brand new (and golden oldie) ways to delete you. Might be a pipedream, but no more so than any of the other hopeful outlooks Star Trek represents.

I don't know if it's true that there were a ton of reshoots, or not, but the theory does explain why Saru seems more passive about some of Burnham's improvisation in some scenes than his position as Captain warrants. And it would also explain the disjointed narrative of a couple of the other episodes.

Saru 'bout to get some Vulcanic cougar STRANGE! That's my boy right there. That's what I'm talking about. (Do Vulcan women go through Pon farr?)

On a side note, I've got my fingers crossed that we'll see the reintroduction of the phase cloak. If the Ni'Varans join the Federation there shouldn't be any impediment to it. And it should be perfected by now. And please let somebody raise the issue of dark matter replacement of dilithium and antimatter for warp drive. You can't replicate Discovery. It's too dangerous. Some idiot added that lore about the mycelial network being critical to the survival of the multiverse, so now we're stuck with it. Too many people get ahold of it and something's bound to go wrong. They should either solve the dilithium deficient warp drive problem with 1) a superconductor dilithium substitute, 2) wormhole technology, or 3) dark matter.

Solid 3 stars for me. I didn't like the last episode. I agree with Jammer's rating of it. However, we've had a couple of really solid episodes. Discovery's finding its path. If they finish the season strong, I can see the 4th season being the one that puts DSC on solid Star Trek footing to silence all the naysayers.
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Peter
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

@Sean Hagins
"Many religions claim to follow God, but instead follow the edicts that come from men. I am not here to point the finger at any religion, but any that does this is, of course incorrect-they are placing man's viewpoint over God's "

You like to quote the Bible a lot. I hate to tell you, but the Bible is very much man's authority. The prophets are not reliable testament on what Jesus said or did and material was misunderstood, removed and inserted to appease various figures, groups and authorities. We don't even know which material, although from what I've read the New Testament would be better described as 'cult of Paul' than the story and teachings of Jesus. This is pretty clear if you read the deliberately removed and destroyed gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalene.

But this happens to all religious teachings.
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Chris Lopes
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:26pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

As others have noted, Tilly as number one is just plain stupid. In fact, it almost qualifies as a jump the shark moment. That no one in actual line for the job seems to object makes it even dumber.

I also didn't buy the turn around on S19. The "you can trust us, because we trust you" argument sounds less than persuasive. It wasn't (to coin a phrase) logical.

So Michael comes back to Star Fleet, again. I really think they should have let her go off with Booker, where her rogue attitude would work best. At least they got rid of the whole "will they or won't they" thing.
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Silly
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Encounter at Farpoint

Tasha’s outburst in Q’s court is extreme, but oddly, when she jumps up, behind Picard, Picard says “Tasha, no!” Uh... he’s known her for a few days at most... house in the world would he know she was about to flip out?


An early episode oddity: Beverly buying a bolt of fabric. So, Bevs sews in her free time?
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Yanks
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

Jason R,

"Regarding Michael Burnham being the show's protagonist, yes that is true as long as the showrunners wish it to be. Even Kevin Spacey got the heaveho from House of Cards and he was a major celebrity and A-lister.

SMG is not exactly a superstar in the first place so I can't imagine it would be impossible to renegotiate her contract to sideline her if the showrunners felt it was for the good of the show. Obviously they don't but many here think they do."

Well, I don't see pedophilia in SMG's future or past so I'm not sure this is a valid comparison. I also heard that season 6 of House of Cards was always supposed to be all about Claire.

They won't do it because they don't think they've done anything wrong.

SlackerInc,

"There's also a huge middle ground between her being central to every plot, and sidelining her. Why couldn't she be on a roughly equal footing, in terms of screen time and centrality to the plot, with Saru and Tilly?"

...or Stamets, Culber, or any of the others.

This makes more sense to me. They could make big headway with her character by letting some other characters save the day sometimes. They sort of did this in season 2 with the incorporation of Spock and Pike.

Hell, if they could just stop the whispering I'd be happy.
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Silly
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 5:46pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Time's Arrow, Part II

Khan
First Contact
Undiscovered Country
Motion Picture*
Generations
Voyage Home
Search for Spock
Star Trek (2009)
Beyond
Final Frontier
Insurrection
Watching clothes dry
Nemesis
Into Darkness


* The Motion Picture is terribly flawed and ridiculously drawn out, with a reused script. But, more than any of the other movies, it goes to the most trouble to make you believe this is a real place, these events are really happening. And the refit Enterprise is jaw dropping gorgeous. Also, the Director’s Cut is a huge improvement. The theater release was literally unfinished.
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Silly
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 5:22pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Time's Arrow, Part II

It was singled out and split into two parts so they could have the season spanning cliffhanger. Those had forever finishing returns after BOBW.

On paper, it sounds compelling: Data’s had being found, some solid mystical Guinan backstory.

In practice, bleh. Not terrible at all, but frequently annoying. The first part, they barely seemed to be aware that sending Data down to the planet just might be how his head got sent back in time. Why didn’t they even discuss it? Even if it were a causal loop they couldn’t escape, they would have talked about it, like they did in Time Squared.

The Mark Twain bit was clunky as all hell. Abraham freaking Lincoln showing up on Kirk’s Enterprise worked vastly better.

And what’s with Picard’s fan boy thing to Twain? Is Picard really that up on Twain’s work? Why would he be? This is one of those painful tropes where the episode writers were enthralled with a historical figure, but none of the Enterprise crew would be. If they could have pulled it off with Shakespeare, that really might have been something.

And Picard says “I wish time would have allowed me to know you better.” Really?

It’s not bad, though, just far more lightweight than it thinks it is. The Guinan/Picard stuff was good, as was discussing Data’s mortality, though the latter was chucked right out the window in part 2.
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Dave in MN
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 4:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

Just because someone gets paid by Time Warner doesn't give them automatically trustworthy.

Over the last few years, every major news outlet has had to retract a story after an embarrassing maelstrom erupted. I'm not exaggerating

If the story causes controversy, often they try to rescue it by editing the story after publication without any notice of correction. If it weren't for internet archives, no one would know the difference. That's unethical.

Almost every national-level reporter advocate politically on Twitter. I'm supposed to trust that someone who Tweet-fights over politics?

Many give vast sums to activist groups and give the maximum amount allowed to political parties. Their reporting of an issue is funding their advocacy of the very same issue. Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Damning stories are run without one person willing to go on the record. Is it truly journalism to publish such a story?

Whataboutism is rampant too. Why can't someone re)ay information about on one individual without bringing up another unconnected individual they don't like?

There's not even a pretense of impartiality anymore as far as I'm concerned.

And where is the journalistic curiosity? I can't tell you the last time I saw a major news organization actually go undercover to break a major story (and no, I'm not counting Dateline NBC-style exposés of low-level consumer fraud).

There is no "Woodward and Bernstein" today.

I'm not going to assign some virtue halo to pretty people who read teleprompters (when they're not pushing their politics).

Likewise, I'm not going to impugn someone automatically because a story turned out wrong.

Often, people change their strategies after getting bad press. Business decisions can and are undone after a critical response. Sometimes a source has been lied to, or only sees part of the picture and has drawn assumptions.

For stories about TV show production issues, a little leeway is to be expected. The situation is fluid. In this case, the Trek showrunners are under a microscope. I'm not going up be upset because some Youtubers as well as Variety and EW have reported incorrectly about this show.

If you're talking about the mainstream media doxxing regular people and destroying their lives over relatively minor infractions, that's something else altogether. (I'm not even going to wade into the damage caused by reporting rumors to sway political opinion of the masses).

With great power comes great responsibility.
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Dave in MN
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

@ SSlackerinc


I searched the page for "all done this" to see the context of my quote and your post was the only result.

What are you referring to?
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Booming
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S2: Chapter 11: The Heiress

I think that is reading too much into this show. It is a star wars version of an italo western. gunslinger comes to a town, does not want to help but for some reason has to, then starts to sympathize with the villagers and when the bad guys are killed, leaves. Sure it is a nice change of perspective that he is a religious weirdo but so far it hasn't really changed anything. The main difference is that in Italo western the bad guys actually sometimes shot people during a fight.
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Dave in MN
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

I'm not going to "take the loss" over a fucking guess.

I don't see anyone else offering theories for the reshoots.
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Engineering
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

Dave In MN said:
"Way to disparage my character."

Don't be twee. Take the loss on this one. You brought it on yourself. You got called out. I am no fan of all the series but the last thing I want to read on Jammer's site that I've been happily frequenting for 8 years now is shit from those youtube hate-mongering jerks offered as evidence.
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SlackerInc
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

Yeah, seriously. Dave says we've all done this, but I don't recall seeing it before, and I certainly don't think I have done it.

And I flatly reject this conspiratorial mindset that you can't trust "mainstream reporters", only dodgy YouTubers. If it's true, the mainstream entertainment media will be very interested in dishing about it. So I would at this point call this rumor not only unconfirmed but highly dubious.

More importantly, it's not really a kosher rhetorical move to try to embed your rumor into the discussion as though it's settled fact ("we all know there were reshoots"). If you believe the rumor, just say "I believe this rumor". That's fine: you might be right! But don't play this disingenuous game where we supposedly all know it's obviously true, when it turns out to be very, very thinly sourced. Not cool, bro.
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Booming
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

Let's not forget that journalists normally have fairly high standards. Also let's not confuse actual journalists with the 24h infotainment industry.
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JPaul
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S2: Chapter 11: The Heiress

Many of the the Mandalorian episodes are very basic plots but this one struck me as having some really deep subtext that won't immediately be seen by most viewers.

The Mandalorian himself is basically an everyman character, a type of character that is supposed to be a stand-in for the audience itself at some level. In this episode, Mando's attitude is that he doesn't care about Bo-Katan's attempts to rebuild that Mandalorian homeworld, he is just interested in fulfilling his quest to return baby Yoda to its kind. This struck me very much as the typical casual Star Wars fan reaction to more recent Star Wars content such as the Clone Wars, Rebels, or the new movies. They don't want anything complicated, they just want to see some Storm Troopers and Tie Fighters get blown up.

It's not all that out of line with a video game player who is just following a quest because that's what they're supposed to do, not caring one bit about the plot of the story they're supposed to be following, just in it for the action. And as we've seen with Mando, he learns that not all Manalorians are religious extremists like himself (he didn't even know he was a religious extremist because it's all he's ever known) and now he's likely questioning what else he doesn't know, potentially mirroring the causal Star Wars fans asking themselves a similar question. I expect that to much of the audience of The Mandalorian, the idea that not all Mandalorians are such extremists comes as a surprise, but to viewers like myself who have seen the Clone Wars and Rebels, it's no surprise at all, in fact it was confusing to us initially because we had never seen Mandalorians have this type of attitude before.
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Mertov
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

Dave,
Can you pay attention and stop using my username to post your messages?
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Dave in MN
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:12pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

@ Mertov

Why do you da assume mainstream news reporters actuality have any standards?

Setting aside that, a source can be wrong ot a source can be right but then someone changes their mind.

Turning out to be incorrect doesn't automatically make the reporter a liar. What kind of logic is that?!
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Dave in MN
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:08pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

The studio tried to keep it hushed up, but the crew was called back. Frakes went back Cast members were in Toronto for months.
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Mertov
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

Booming, just a few clarifications:

"Guys remember you are arguing about reshoots for a show you both don't like that much." -- I like the show quite a lot.

"A show having major reshoots is nothing unusual." -- That is not the point, nobody is disputing the existence of reshoots. The claim was much more specific (and outrageous) than that.

That leaves us with youtube people. Who admittedly often lack any kind of journalistic standard. -- Not all youtubers are bad, but the ones mentioned here are specifically the conspiracy-theorists and proven liars who bank on clicks they can get from new trek series haters.
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SlackerInc
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 3:03pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

FWIW, Googling "star trek discovery reshoots" just brings up a few similar hits in which this is described as a "rumor", repeatedly referencing the same YouTuber (MidnightsEdge) referenced upthread.

So, no: we do not "know" there were extensive reshoots. It's just a rumor, seemingly spread by one person who, if we believe the comments from Mertov (I think it was?) has spread rumors in the past that turned out to be false.

Therefore, pending confirmation from a reliable source like Variety or THR, I remain skeptical.
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Dave in MN
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 2:54pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

I'm not Ask Jeeves or Quora and it gets tiresome having to explain how I arrived at my best guess, but whatever, I lead you down the path I took. I'd rather people understand my thought process than have them make conspiratorial assumptions about me.

I know 100% certainty the reshoots happened because the cast and crew all have Twitter accounts and you all can verify it for yourselves.

The evidence is there to find for anyone who has both doubt and a shred of intellectual curiosity.

@ Booming

Your logic is spot on. 👍
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Nick
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 2:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

Couple of notes:

- I liked the “courtroom” style A plot. It was an interesting way to do some world-building and also help to resolve Burnham’s uncertainty about whether she belongs in Starfleet.

- Tilly’s promotion to first officer was an absurd plot development. It would have been better if Saru better explained what it was about Tilly that made him want to promote her, it wasn’t clear to me at all.

- The Vulcan president made a comment about whether or not the Federation can be trusted which clearly seemed like foreshadowing to me. The Federation knows more than it’s letting on.

- Inserting Burnham’s mother was a bit ackward, but I’m willing to overlook it given that she was used pretty effectively in the A plot.
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