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Jamie Mann
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Rocks and Shoals

Another good episode in what was probably the strongest run of episodes across all of DS9.

In some ways, the B-plot is arguably stronger than the A-plot, with Kira lifelessly trudging through her daily routine under Cardassian rule. The scenes where she forces herself to get up and go to work are deeply poignant. And the self-martyrdom of the Vedek bordered on a cliche, but still packs an emotional punch.

(Though I have to ask: with the number of falls and deaths from the upper promenade walkway, why has the station never fitted any safety nets, or some form of future-tech solution, such as a movement sensor and a low-power tractor beam...)

By comparision, the A-plot isn't as great, not least because it relies on a heavily contrived setup, in having the DS9 crew land within a convenient walking distance of the already-stranded Jem Hadar.

But still it does have it's moments, especially when Keevan appears on screen. For my money, he's a much better "negotiator" than Weyoun, with his devious plots and more sarcastic nature. It's a shame we didn't get to see more of this character going forward (except for... well, you know... spoilers!)

Equally, it's a bit of a shame that the writers decided to go for a turkey-shoot ending. Especially since there were two possibilities which could have been explored:

1) The 84 cannisters of Ketracel sitting on the sunken Jem Hadar fighter. Even if it's sunk too deep for a human to swim down to, surely one of the genetically-enhanced Jem Hadar could have made it down there...
2) The Jem Hadar could have been sedated. It would have been nice if the writers had at least considered this possibility - after all, it wouldn't be too hard to make up some reason as to why they couldn't be sedated, tied into their genetically engineered nature.

Still, a pretty decent episode when all's said and done...
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Jason R.
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

"Apparently there were very few Romulan survivors (Nero called himself the last remnant of the Romulan Empire) and they're understandably bitter about how the events played out."

The Romulan Star Empire was supposed to be huge - a major Beta quadrant civilization. Not that you need to know anything about supernovas to find the ST 2009 movie stupid (god was it stupid - every scene, every scenarios, every frame) but yeah - stoooooopid. Like someone writing a story where a tornado wipes out the United States.
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Ryan
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

@John Harmon

“ I think I hate this show. It’s bad on its own merits, and I’m confident the only reason people are still watching is because it has the name Star Trek and it has Picard in it even if they don’t realize that’s why.”

With all due respect, if you hate the show and continue to watch and post about it, that’s your business, but kindly don’t tell me that I’m not intelligent enough to realize why I watch it.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:38pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

To add to my last post:
"It's not a given that a Romulan Senator would know in that chaos the details of what took place in every Federation meeting, I doubt that information is shared anyway." ----- which is that much more reason why Picard should have contacted them, which he didn't. A major screw-up.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:32pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

No, I don't believe it's terribly misplaced at all. He could have easily contacted them once or twice to give an update (again, that alone is more than enough for them to be justifiably bitter), provided that he presented themselves as a savior from all signs. He was their contact point and had a personal relationship with them. The Romulan Senator just had his life turned upside down and Romulus suffered in gigantic proportions. It's perfectly feasible for him to associate Picard with Federation/Starfleet's actions (he should, in fact). It's not a given that a Romulan Senator would know in that chaos the details of what took place in every Federation meeting, I doubt that information is shared anyway.
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Booming
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

@Mertov
"It's explained on screen that Picard did not even bother to contact the Romulans on Vashti once he left after he got the message that Mars was under attack. That fail alone is enough for those people to be bitter, let alone them associating the actions of the Federation that the Senator describes in his harangue with Picard."

Isn't that terribly misplaced. Ok Picard didn't call but he convinced the Federation to start the rescue (which is pretty stupid. Picard alone convinced them?) and then destroys his career in an attempt to restart the rescue. I could understand some person not knowing what Picard did but a Senator? Picard is the person who fought the most for the Romulans at great personal cost. The only thing Raffi and the Romulans can complain about is, even though that is pretty childish, that he did not call.
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Chrome
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

@Dave, Booming

Like Mertov, I enjoyed ST:2009. I'm not sure which dialogue Mertov is referring to, but my understanding from Spock's explanation is that the supernova threatened many worlds, even those in the Federation. The Federation acted to stop the supernova, and while they failed Romulus, Spock did manage to save the other systems. Apparently there were very few Romulan survivors (Nero called himself the last remnant of the Romulan Empire) and they're understandably bitter about how the events played out.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:05pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

I am actually surprised that Zani was not bitter with him. I would have...
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

It's explained on screen that Picard did not even bother to contact the Romulans on Vashti once he left after he got the message that Mars was under attack. That fail alone is enough for those people to be bitter, let alone them associating the actions of the Federation that the Senator describes in his harangue with Picard. He was their contact point after all. I really don't need more detail than that, I don't need multiple flashback scenes explaining every gradual moment of increased bitterness by the Romulans.
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Booming
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:59pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

@Mertov
With off-screen I meant the actual things Picard did wrong. We only get exposition after exposition about what he did wrong but the show never gives us a scene where he actually fails. And considering that the Senator was personally saved by Picard I find his attitude confusing. Does he not understand that Picard isn't the emperor of the Federation?

I actually saw ST2009 in the cinema. The only thing I remember is the friend I was with saying:" This was ok but not Star Trek." No joke. That's the first thing he said after the movie. I can barely remember a single thing from that movie. Was Nero using a 24th century garbage truck ship which was really big? And did Spock fly around in an egg with a red blob of super something very special liquid to unexplode the sun?

About the books. My disinterest is even more general. I'm just watching a show. I don't want to read the book or comic form of an FAQ to understand what is happening. The show must stand on it's own.
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Jamie Mann
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: A Time to Stand

Another good, if distinctly dark, episode.

The one negative point isn't really about this episode, per se, but rather the consequences which arise from it. Or more precisely, the lack thereof.

I'm not a great fan of using "future knowledge" (aka: spoilers!) when reviewing an episode, but in this case, I'm going to make a bit of an exception. Because for all that they go to such great lengths to stage a raid on the Ketracel factory, it has virtually no impact on the plot threads going forward, barring a one-off bar-fight a few episodes later, which itself is equally as inconsequential.

It would have been far more interesting if the writers had followed through the implications of the Founders potentially losing control of the Jem Hadar. Alas, it was not to be...
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Jamie Mann
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Call to Arms

Shock, horror. This is... a pretty good episode.

I mean, I'd quite happily take the cutting scissors to all the scenes featuring Rom and Leeta, in this and every other episode going. Even if the initial scene with where they're looking at the TOS-styled wedding dress got a few callback bonus points.

But for the most part, everything works well. The plots, the intrigues, the betrayals, the alliances, it all makes sense within this context.

Perhaps ironically, the one thing I wasn't particularly impressed with was the battle scenes. They're increasingly Star Wars like, in that battles are carried out at extremely short ranges. It's not a gun-fight, it's not even a knife-fight; it's the space-battle equivalent of mud-wrestling.

It's dramatic, but also more than a little ridiculous.

(And without getting into spoiler territory, this trend continues in the sixth season...)
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

As for the books (Daniel, thanks for that detailed info about McCormack's book, sounds fascinating), yes Booming and Dave are correct, they are not canon. The writers are making a genuine effort to stay close to canon and from what I understand (I have not read any Disco or Picard novels, just the comics) the Disco and Picard novels are doing a good job of it.

As for the older series, I would definitely recommend the DS Relaunch series, it's almost like reading about an 8th season, 9th season, and so on. Very good non-canon story-telling. I am told post-Voyager novels are also great (Beyer helms them, I believe), but I have not read any. Still trying to get current on DS9 relaunch series.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

You also don't need to watch it because the Romulan Senator explains in this episode why Romulans are bitter, on screen. In fact, he goes into too much detail in my opinion, making his harangue a bit too long for my taste. He could have cut a couple of sentences from that explanation and still it would have made sense why they are upset. There have been enough clues already in other parts of the first three episodes about that. I pretty much knew what the reason already.
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Dom
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:06pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

@Dougie, luckily for us we still live in a free country where giant corporations can't suppress freedom of speech. Nothing on this site is violating a CBS/Paramount copyright. People are allowed to express their opinions about a TV show on a website. If you disagree, that's your right. Shutting down the discourse isn't your or any company's right.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

No Dave, you don't need to watch the whole movie for that specific information. You can find that information by going to Nero on Memory Alpha I am sure. He says it early in the film.
I liked ST 2009 a lot.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:02pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

I only saw 2009 Star Trek once when it came out on video. It was a very overstuffed yet oddly forgettable movie. I guess I missed out on that exposition.

Should I watch that again?
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:51am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

Again, the Romulan senator explains it on screen (and so does Nero in ST 2009).

Now, if you want a whole episode dedicated to the details of it, no thanks. It's enough for me to know why they are bitter but not how it got there day by day. That would be like me asking a whole episode to be dedicated to the details of how scientifically is Data constructing LAL in "The Offspring." I don't need that. It's enough for me to know Data can create LAL (and fail), and a couple of technobabble sentences to tell me the general idea. It's certainly not a point of criticism, unless I want to nitpick "The Offspring."
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Late To The Party Girl
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:51am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

@Dougie:

Shut down the site? LOL - I doubt that is going to happen. The first episode of TOS aired 9/8/1966. The most recent comment in the chain on that episode? November 6, 2019. This site is a fantastic resource and discussion page. Hopefully it is not going anywhere.

You can't blame people for not liking/being critical of the new series. So far it is setting itself up to be a 10 hour movie based on 3 hours of substantive content/story telling, filled with irrelevant details featuring style over content and filmed in a style that makes it uncomfortable to view on a television. So, yeah, if an exec were to review all of the comments, it might make them think. Which would be a good thing.
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Jamie Mann
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:46am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: In the Cards

It's a fluff episode. It has a few funny moments. And (perhaps give or take the way it highlights the issues with the "post-money economy" model the Federation allegedly follows), that's pretty much all there is to it.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:46am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

I agree that the book sounds interesting, at least it tries to find a rational justification for the events of the show.

But

#1 Books aren't canon, they never have been with Star Trek. I'm with Booming on this one.

#2 The only canon information I have available doesn't explain what we're seeing on the show.

#3. 2 years of a supernova death sentence and I'm supposed to believe the people of Romulus just sat around waiting for a Federation ferry? It's the freaking 24th century, Ferengi and other privateer aliens would've had that planet empty within 12 months.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:45am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

And so did Nero in Star Trek 2009.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:42am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

Guys you can quote books and all but I'm watching a show. I will not read a book or comic so that a show makes sense. Either the show makes sense or it doesn't.

@ A A Roi
"It clearly points out, over and over again that Picard failed to right societies wrongs."
Off-screen. I'm fairly certain that at the end of the show the Federation will be a better place because of Picard.

---------------

Actually, the Romulan senator details it on-screen fairly well why they are bitter about the Federation and Picard.
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Jamie Mann
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:40am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Empok Nor

Another episode where the sum doesn't quite equal the parts.

The setup is fairly interesting and logical; DS9 needs replacement parts, which (for the usual technobabble reasons) can't be replicated or substituted for. So a trip to an abandoned Cardassian station (handily built with the same layout as per DS9) to salvage them seems logical.

Though that does raise an interesting question: it may have been mothballed by the Cardassians, but it's still technically owned by them - and heavily booby trapped, to boot. Sending a salvage team over to it during a cold-war scenario which is just a hair-trigger away from going nuclear seems somewhat... foolhardy.

But still, it's a nice little set up for a horror-themed episode, as the woefully underprepared Engineering crew find themselves facing off against a set of psychopathic zombie-warriors[*]. Which naturally, they deal with by charging around a darkened station with bright torches in small groups. Or to put it another way, easy pickings for psychopathic zombie-warriors lurking in the shadows...

In the end, the engineering red-shirts are all eliminated, so that the episode can focus on Garak, who's been exposed to the same psychotropic drug as the zombie-warriors. And naturally, he becomes obsessed with Miles and decides to play an odd little game with him.

Truth be told, Garak is always a fascinating character, and evil-Garak is even more so. But I do wish that O'Brien's solution had been a bit more... cunning. Outsmarting Garak by having him draw a /third/ phaser would have arguably been more apt and amusing.

Sadly, all the build up is somewhat wasted by the ending, which makes liberal use of the reset button. Garak gets to go back to his shop, and the deaths of the engineering team is hand waved away. And while there's a mildly amusing callback to this episode by Nog a few episodes later, that's pretty much it for the impact his actions have on the wider story.

And that's why the sum is less than the parts...

[*] Ok, ok, they're not zombies. But this episode channels Alien and Friday the 13th in equal parts, so I'm dubbing them Jason 1, 2 and 3! And I'm going to ignore all the hand-waving that the episode does around just /why/ there's a bunch of psychopathic zombie-warriors sat in deep freeze on the station...
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Booming
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 11:38am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Into the Fold

I must say I didn't like this at all.
The bad:
- The children are really bad. Both cannot act.
- Having the android walk around is not a good idea. When I see the suit moving I just see a guy in cheap costume.
- The story is completely predictable and very shallow.
- I immediately thought of this https://twitter.com/moviepass/status/941020241810911233?lang=de

The ST:P similarities:
Strangely enough I found STP and Orville a little similar.
- There is the cursing
- The contemporary language
- Something else I forgot but it was a pretty good point

The good-ish
- I laughed two times. The first time when the shuttle broke apart. That looked too ridiculous and the other time when the older kid had his family moment with his mother while cannibals attack and then she sent her 12-14 year old son out to fight the cannibals. Hahaha Great stuff!
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