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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 12:19am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Shannon

"Oh you mean like yourself and The Orville which you seem to bring up every other day? Please get off your high horse and engage us here in the Star Trek discussion as equals."

Why are you looking for a fight? I wasn't talking about people like you.

I was specifically talking about people who never participated in any actual Star-Trek related discussion, and whose sole "contribution" is mocking others (and sometimes to say "Discovery is great"... without even bothering to say *why* they think so).

I have absolutely nothing against the actual fans of the Discovery. So how about *you* get off your high horse and stop treating me as the enemy?

Thank you.
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Spoiler
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 9:58pm (UTC -6)
Re: BSG S3: Dirty Hands

Wow thanks for the spoiler alert Ellen, WTF?
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Springy
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 9:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Heart of Stone

Another thought:

--Nog wants to be the first Ferenghi in Starfleet; Odo tells cheering Changeling Lady he might be the first changelling to hurt another changeling. A & B plotlines definitely being paralleled.

--Also, since I sigh about him so often, credit where credit is due: Brooks did a good job in the scene where Sisko deliberately shakes up Nog, so the truth will come out.
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Springy
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 9:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Heart of Stone

Watching and commenting:

--In a roundabout, Odo being super sensitive because Kira didn't consult him when saying no to a dinner invite. This is immediately followed by Kira deciding to go after a Maqui ship without consulting Odo, but he seems happy just to have been informed before they warp away.

-- O'Brien, acting as Sisko's receptionist, lets Nog in to see the Commander. Nog wants to be the first Ferenghi in Star Fleet? Didn't we see Ferenghi at Star Fleet Academy? Maybe on TNG?

--Kira with a Foot of Stone.

--Nog being secretive about why he wants to join SF, though I'm guessing he doesn't want to follow dad's shameful footsteps.

--Can't Odo use his shape shifting ability to somehow squirm in there and break up that crystal?

--Louie Louie is a sea chanty? Pretty funny.

--But . . . how can Kira already be in love with Odo . . . Hmmmm

--Odo tells the truth about being in love with Kira, when deliberately put under stress from that Head-Changling Lady. Sisko purposely stresses out Nog so the truth comes out.

--Changeling Lady telling Odo his biology is his destiny; Quark basically telling Nog the same thing. Odo not buying-in. Nog not buying in.

--Traps and what we do to get out of them.

--Little guy playing Nog does a great job. And Nana V does a good job playing "not quite right Kira."

--Why not just have Odo find "Kira" dead?

Entertaining. I liked this one.
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Mertov
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 8:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

-- [Also, "dry ass-raping" is apt for this franchise."] --

No, it's not. Ask those who have been dry-ass raped for real.

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roxxin
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 7:26pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Lights of Zetar

I really liked the horror aspects of this episode, yes it has some plotholes and the solution is not so believable (pressure) but it was definitely not one of those episodes where you start checking how many minutes still left to the end. in general pacing was good, dialogues were fine, Scottys romance with the guest actress worked, yes this episode had not a real message to think about, but I dont expect that from every episode. Had shore leave in season 1 a message? Not really, but was rated 3 stars for being fun. I had fun with this episode, suspense was there for me, so I give it 2,5-3 stars.

Im right now asking myself how shore leave and some other episodes would have been rated if they had been aired in season 3, this season is not as bad as people say it is.
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Iceman
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 7:22pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S1: Balance of Terror

@grumpy_otter-

You gave up the episode before "Improbable Cause"? Ouch.
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PatrickD
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 5:34pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

The 4th season of Star Trek: Enterprise provided the template for what Trek is now for the last 14 years and frankly it has just decimated this once venerable franchise. While season 4 was really the only watchable season of the series, it's non-stop fan-service was just low hanging fruit. Want something like "The Measure of a Man" or "The Inner Light" in your Trek? Tough luck. We have Section 31 (again) and The Mirror Universe (again) to keep the average viewer, I guess, entertained. ("See Star Trek: Picard as he battles an alliance of The Borg and the Dominion and only a pact with Section 31 and the denizens of the Mirror Universe can save the day!") But, here's the thing: if Star Trek: Discovery was cancelled and the JJ Trek movies (along with any other Trek projects) were no longer made, the average viewer wouldn't care. In fact it wouldn't even be much of a blip in Entertainment Weekly. Remember when "All Good Things..." was a cultural event?

Where did Trek go wrong? Was it when Deep Space Nine altered what Trek was supposed to be about that it's practically unrecognizable from Gene Roddenberry's vision? Is it the 10-year bout of sustained mediocrity with Voyager and Enterprise? How did we get here? How do we fix it? (Personally, I think the Powers that Be need to study up on what made TOS and TNG what they were. Examine what made those two shows work beyond the superficiality of Klingons, Tribbles, and green animal women.)

[Also, "dry ass-raping" is apt for this franchise."]
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Jeffrey Jakucyk
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 4:49pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S5: Infinite Regress

Add me to the list of people who love the "Naomi Wildman, sub-unit of Ensign Samantha Wildman, state your intentions" dialogue.
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Iceman
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 3:05pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Heart of Stone

@Jack-

Was that their only motivation? I remember the female Founder saying that getting Odo back was more important to the war, but their motivations for the war were their paranoia and need to 'impose order' on the rest of the galaxy.
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Booming
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 10:11am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

@ MadManMUC

Can you tone down the language? We get it. You do not like the show and even a trailer makes you really emotional. No reason for so man fuck/rape comments. If there ever was a reason to write dry ass-raping...
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Omar
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 9:08am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: 11001001

Kind of odd that the halodeck only offers cacusian women to Riker.
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JerJer
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 8:15am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part II

Why does Data change to a red uniform?

Why is his uniform a different shade of red?
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MadManMUC
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 6:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Re: Section 31

'I think a smart writer(s) could make this a great series with this as the foundation.'

Uh, yeah, no thanks.

Bad enough the franchise is about to get another dry ass-raping with a Rick and Morty-style cartoon. We don't need the insult of a S31-centred series adding to the cartoon injury.
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MadManMUC
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 6:18am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Just caught the new S02 trailer, and I'm going to agree with some previous posters: this 'galaxy-ending threat' business is as tedious as it is not-Star Trek. Another whole season of artificially high stakes, transparent plot 'twists' one will see coming episodes away, poor plotting and writing, and fucking SMG.

Yay ... fuck me.

*****

Also, just watched 'The Brightest Star'.

• Admittedly, some lovely camera work;
• Ridiculously bad make-up — it looks exactly like the plastic/rubber/latex it actually is, without even bothering to try to apologise for the fact ... which looks jarringly even more obvious in contrast to the cinematography and colour grading;
• Wooden acting;
• More questionable Starfleet behaviour, with the slightly re-hashed 'is there anyone out there?' plot point having already been explored ... and better dealt with/resolved by more compentent showrunners, writers, and directors (cf: TNG S02E15 'Pen Pals').

In any case, pretty boring, but mostly harmless (read: pointless).

Final rating: GNDN, although one star for nice cinematography, especially in the establishing shots.
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Jack
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 1:31am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Life Support

"Yeah. I think this whole women-chewing-their-men's-food bit is supposed to be heartwarming, but it isn't."

It also is the reason I can't bring myself to recommend non-Star Trek fans to watch "The Visitor", an otherwise excellent episode but for that scene in the middle where Nog mentions this disgusting act and it still lifts even me right out of the narrative, and I've watched the episode probably 40 times.

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Jack
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 1:15am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Heart of Stone

"but the implication that this is the only reason Odo didn't stay with his people undermines what happened in “The Search”--Odo didn't want to be part of the Dominion because it's fucking evil and he recognised that."

I hated the ret-conning they did with this too.

We (spoiler?) learned later - or at least the writers try to gaslight us later - that everything the Founders have done was motivated by "getting Odo back home", but we get that smokeblow only AFTER the Founders made him a solid, and since they weren't the reason that Odo eventually got his goo-ve back, it's rather absurd to try and make us believe that the Founders were playing three dimensional chess like that. There is a ridiculous nonsnese throwaway line from the Founder that "we've forgiven you", but are we supposed to assume that the Founders orchestrated the events of "The Begotten"? to restore Odo?
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11001001
Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 12:22am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: The Dogs of War

There is an interesting homage to Star Trek III at the beginning of this episode.

EZRI: "I didn't know we were getting another Defiant-class ship."
SISKO: "That's what happens when you miss staff meetings."

From Star Trek III

SCOTTY: [on sabotaging the Excelsior] "Here Doctor: souvenirs from one surgeon to another. I took them out of her main transwarp computer drive."
BONES: "Nice of you to tell me in advance."
KIRK: "That's what you get for missing staff meetings, Doctor."

The homage is a nice touch, albeit very forced. Bones was unfamiliar with the plan because he was busy dealing with having Spock's katra* inside of him. There is no reason (that is known to the audience) why Ezri would have missed briefings on the new ship, leaving us with no basis for Sisko to say this to her (other than that the writers really wanted to insert a TOS reference).

*for those complaining about mystical mumbo jumbo on DS9: remember the katra?
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Togu Pardamean Oppusunggu
Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 6:52pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Rise

Loved this episode. Fun and original. Got to see Neelix and Tuvok in a new kind of situation. I thought the supporting characters and the setting were very interesting, kept me in suspense as to what would happen next.
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Yanks
Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 6:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

You're right Jason, it is over the top, but saving Earth countless times is really no different. .... only ship in the quadrant etc...

I guess in SCI-FI nowadays, bigger is better :-) Kind of like 'The Force Awakens'

As far as section 31 goes, to me, there has been no doubt that it would have to be prevalent in this series. They've got to bury the spore drive technology for one... I AM glad that our mirror Georgio is still on the show. I really enjoy Michelle Yeoh.

We'll see how they employ it. Ever and every time it's been mentioned in trek, the masses have screamed for more.... now we get it and folks don't give it a chance. They could do it well.

This is how I think a Section 31 series could work and be very interesting:

I remember what Sloan said to Bashir...

"SLOAN: I just wanted to say thank you.
BASHIR: For what? Allowing you to manipulate me so completely?
SLOAN: For being a decent human being. That's why we selected you in the first place, Doctor. We needed somebody who wanted to play the game, but who would only go so far. When the time came, you stood your ground. You did the right thing. You reached out to an enemy, you told her the truth, you tried to stop a murder. The Federation needs men like you, Doctor. Men of conscience, men of principle, men who can sleep at night. You're also the reason Section Thirty-one exists. Someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong."

I think a smart writer(s) could make this a great series with this as the foundation.

There's talk of a series centered on Yeoh, I would welcome this.

https://deadline.com/2018/11/michelle-yeoh-star-trek-spinoff-talks-cbs-crazy-rich-asians-1202498617/
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wolfstar
Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 5:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Section 31 is a retcon that was invented for a single DS9 episode (Inquisition), then followed up in a later not-quite-as-good episode (Inter Arma) and resolved in a terrible episode that showed that the concept and its ramifications were too big for the writers to address with any sophistication (Extreme Measures). Its usage in Enterprise S4 was rather fan-servicey but at least sensible and restrained - it wasn't necessary but it worked fairly well, and gave an underutilized character (Reed) some worthwhile material. The problem with the continuing use of the Section 31 concept (in Into Darkness and now Discovery), though, is that writers just use it as a cheap way to circumvent Trekkian values and make the Trek universe 'edgier' in a really shallow way - they're not interested in exploring the ramifications of Section 31's existence or the ethics of its actions, they just use it as a get-out clause that allows them to include non-Trekkian content and characters as a way to be 'cool' because they don't have the skill to write good stories that exist within the confines of the Trek value framework (which has a LOT of leeway, as has been repeatedly proven from TOS right through to ENT). Section 31 was conceived as a way of shining a light on the darker side of the Federation, but in the hands of hack writers, it's been reduced to something pseudo-edgy that can be namedropped to explain away non-Trekkian actions, characters and motivations. I could honestly live without Inquisition and Inter Arma for the blessing of no more tenuous Section 31 stories.
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Sean Hagins
Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 5:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S6: Muse

A very good episode. Different-and I wouldn't want the entire series to be like this, but it makes a nice change. I like how the episode ends without telling us the patron's reaction. Will he lay aside his pride and warmongering ways? Let us hope so, but we will never know.

I too liked Kelly Waymire-I always thought she was quite talented-and cute too. A shame about her early death, but I believe in the bible's promise of a resurrection, so soon she can live again.

Despite the lack of flashy things one associates with sci-fi, this episode is typical Star Trek to me. It is entertaining, and also shows us that we can put aside pride and violent tendencies if we decide to.

I don't have the problem with Harry Kim that many have here, so I didn't mind his last minute appearance-in fact worrying/wondering what happened to him for most of the episode adds spice to the show!
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Iceman
Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 3:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Past Tense, Part II

@OmicronTehtaDeltaPhi-

I concur.


@Springy-


Yes this episode was preachy-no denying it. However, I'm more than fine with it. Some situations just require it.
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Iceman
Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 3:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Past Tense, Part I

@Springy-

You're not wrong about the time travel logic. This is one of those episodes where you have to suspend your disbelief, big time. It makes no sense, even by Star Trek standards.
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Lara Spenzak
Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:06pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Angel One

@Peter G.

I think it would have been progressive and novel if Beata had the fling with Troi or Tasha instead of Riker. That would have been more natural to me. The society of Angel One established that women can be in power. We don't need men running everything for us. The sexual encounter with Riker makes Beata take a submissive position and veers away from what her society has achieved. The episode ends with the notion that women "need" men and that was disappointing.
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