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Chrome
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 3:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Through the Looking Glass

@Strejda

I'm with you and this can all be seen as big fun adventure episode, in the vein of TNG's "Starship Mine". The questions of whether our hero Sisko's actions have any moral ramifications are really only secondary to the driving force of the piece which is an action story with a heart (As other have pointed out, this is Star Trek does "A New Hope").

OTOH, the Mirror episodes up until this point have been good because they're an inversion of the prime universe. We've been asked to consider what our prime heroes would do if they're put in a situation where their values are now foreign and subversive. Many of the good moments like Kirk getting Mirror Spock to consider his freedom or Bashir and Kira pushing Mirror Miles to be more than a slave really spoke to what's great about the values of the Prime Universe. We're missing that in that in this episode. So while this story might be good on its own, perhaps it's a step down intellectually from previous MU stories.

And hey, Elliott's just a passionate guy. I don't totally agree with him on all things, but I try to see where he's coming from as he raises some interesting points.
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 3:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Crossover

@Peter G. I would say they've changed Paris quite bit form his original conception. At first, they were clearly writing as a bad boy maverick ladies man, until giving up on that and writing him as a cool nerd type. And I think part of the reason was precisely to play into McNeill's strenghts-watching early Voyager, you can see how he is not playing Paris with the sleaze he is intented to have.
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Patrick
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 3:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Time's Orphan

Worf: “I raised Alexander”

Really Worf?
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 2:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Through the Looking Glass

@Chrome
The way he talks about he genuinely seems morally offended though, as if this was obviously morally repugnant, not just that Sisko is a hypocrite for not following Starfleet priciples but straight up bad person period and I just do not see it. Admittedly, I haven't seen the ep in years, but from what I recall, besides the thing with Dax, all Sisko did was shoot bunch of mooks working for a fascist empire.

The way he just decides to help them because Jennifer does bother me, but regarding the argument he doesn't care at all about the moral justifications of him doing this, consider: Would the writers treat saving Jennifer as reason enough if this was a complicated political situation that wasn't caused by Starfleet officers in the first place like in High Ground? Or even if it was the The Alliance asking him to kill the terran rebels for them to save Jennifer? I get complaint that after previous Mirror Universe focused on the horror of it this treats it as a big dumb action adventure, but the moral offense of this level seems unreasonable to me.
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Booming
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 2:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Precious Cargo

Overlooked this one but now I finally saw it.
This is just bad. Lakshmi is so bad. A dozen times I thought: Oh, no." Marveling at how bad this was.
The other bad episodes are at least entertaining but this is just boring bad. The worst kind.
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 2:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: Terra Prime

@Yanks I don't like how people compare every fictional supervillain to Trump, but there is something about a racist business man with daddy issues with working class supporters that seems familiar.
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Jason R.
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Carbon Creek

I love how Archer and Trip refuse to take T'Pol's story seriously, like she just made it up as a joke. Cause that's T'Pol alright, always pulling their leg for a laugh.
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Booming
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Carbon Creek

Yeah, this is pretty terrible but I still laughed a lot.

T'Pol from the past has no control over her team. It is hilarious. I also laughed hard when T'pol old says something like: "They (Humans) live only 60, 70 years at best is it worth to save them to give them a few more years." Hahaha that's cold!

So many stupid conversations. Fantastic. And the scene when T'pol 1957 is naked behind a sheet I only thought what I always think in bad Enterprise episodes because they all have scenes like that: Oh, wowser! Titties!

It is also great to see that officers on the Enterprise have zero chemistry. Unbelievable.

i get it because of Spock we will have a Vulcan in (almost) every show but god are they not the most boring species ever?!

Off to the next terrible Enterprise episode!
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S3: Carpenter Street

@Jason R. I agree this ep is pretty awful, but I would recommend sticking with it at least a while longer. There are still few stinkers, including the next one (which you can straight up skip), but after one more the plot finally picks up andmany consider upcoming three-parter near the end of the season Enterprise's high point.

@Peter G. Demons/Terra Prime two-parter might be my personal favorite Enterprise episode. Not the best mind you, I recognise there are genuine problems, but the good is to me is so good and in a way extremely fitting as a Enterprise finale. Big reason could be that it might be the only bit of Enterprise that I think actually makes Star Trek canon better for existing as part of in-universe history. And admittedly that it's in a way subtextually apologizing for its first two seasons helps.
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Jason R.
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S3: Carpenter Street

@Peter G.

Ha I won't skip that far ahead. I think now I'll just start being more selective. I'll watch the next blue Weyoun episode because I like Jeffrey Combs, plus the big episodes resolving the Xindi arc and then go for a more "curated" run of Season 4.

All I can say at this point is it's no mystery why the show was cancelled.

Soooooo much time travel. Time travel this. Time travel that. I can't even keep track anymore of the time travel plots. Was Daniels from the 31st century? The 26th? Is the shadow man a Romulan? (Why is my head canon that he is?) What kind of "cold" war involves handing death stars to your proxies? Then again to be fair I guess the USSR tried to do it with Cuba. But America didn't just look the other way or hand one guy a pocket knife and a scrap of metal and say: "you take care of it we can't get involved"
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Chrome
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 12:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Through the Looking Glass

@Strejda

I think Elliott's point is that Sisko takes on the identity of a space pirate and lives out a nice fantasy life in the MU while forgetting about Starfleet principles. It kind of works because we can get behind him getting emotionally invested in being with his wife and wanting some sort of universe where she'd be alive and well. But - I think we're missing the side of Sisko that underneath thinks all this MU stuff is despicable. People give Michael Burnham flack for her moral compass, but at least in DISC it was clear that she thought the Emperor Georgiou and Mirror Lorca were *wrong* and she'd fight them on Starfleet principle if she had to.
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 12:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S2: Innocence

I like Tuvok, but the twist at the end is just way too artificial to me and really hurts the episode. I get that it's a metaphor but aging backwards is still just too nonsensical for a literal narrative and sci-fi setting like Star Trek (and please don't smugly tell me how it's hypocritical to be okay with transporters or warp travel but not this, it's not), especially for a twist. There is absolutely no reason for the alien lady to not just tell them what is going on.
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Peter G.
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 12:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S3: Carpenter Street

@ Jason R.,

If you're going to quit, at least check out S4's Terra Prime. I can't quite guarantee it's gold, but it would suck to miss out on Peter Weller.
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Jason R.
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 12:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S3: Carpenter Street

This episode is just so much pointless filler. As Jammer pointed out, it's uniquely and especially idiotic in light of prior episodes where the Xindi reptilians already had detailed scans of human physiology. So their little time travel plot was made explicitly redundant by a prior episode!

And they needed to "hide" the weapon in the past? Ummm why? Can't they just hide it under the rug? Since when did *time travel* become an efficient means of hiding things?

Which reminds me: if they have access to time travel, wouldn't that be far more effective a weapon than a virus? Just go back 100,000 years and bomb some homo erectus villages or whatever. It's like someone using a rocket launcher to blow open a door to get access to a safe that contains a knife so they can stab you with it.

And really, is all this bioweapon stuff necessary or reasonable? Just from a narrative standpoint, yes we get it: the Xindi want us extra extra dead. I mean sure they plan to blow up our world with a death star, but it couldn't hurt to unleash a viral plague on us too.

I am really beginning to lose it with this series. I may have to just start skimming these episodes.
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Peter G.
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 12:27pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Past Tense, Part II

Thanks, Stejda.
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 12:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Past Tense, Part II

@Peter G. I've recently disagreed with you strongly elsewhere, so I feel like I should say that your comment on Star Trek and diversity of values is spot on and well put together.
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 12:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Through the Looking Glass

“Sisko, feckless blob of pseudo-Starfleet garbage that he is, insists that he can't let her die “again,” and so agrees to help Smiley. I won't go on another enormous Sisko rant here. I don't need to. But THIS is the moment; from THIS point forward, Sisko has absolutely no moral authority to fall back on, not when he berates Eddington, not when he chastises Dukat, not when he makes his deleted confession—at this point, Benjamin Sisko has proven himself to be a man who will do whatever he wants whenever he the fuck he feels like it, regulations, ethics, and basic human decency be damned. It's over. He's not a hero; he's a Starfleet officer in title only. I'm done.”

I think is a very extreme take, given that you don't at all explain how Sisko's deciding to help them are at all unethical or against "basic human decency". Yes, it arguably violates Prime Directive, but so? Violating Prime Directive obviously isn't inherently wrong and even in universe it isn't aways treated as such, Picard for instance has repeatedly chose to ignore it. What later happens with Dax does bother me, but that's because the episode doesn't actually realize what it is, so I basicalyl look at it the way I do as that moment in First Contact where Riker has to screw that lady to escape.
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 10:28am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Fourth Season Recap

@Startrekwatcher Not that you have to like them, but I don't really see how Worf's sub-plots are pointless-they are about him adjusting to the life on the station. And Kassidy moving in is about development of her relationship with Sisko.
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Strejda
Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 3:54am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Life Line

@Tyson I like the episode, but do you really think this is in any way helpful? I get the feeling people here are just cynical nitpickers who refuse to give a show a fair shot, but this demand for blind loyalty and potraying any critical thinking as party pooping is absurd.

I don't know how many people here played their part in getting a show cancelled and an awful movie bomb almost 20 years ago, but why is it their fault not writer's fault for not making better products? And even it was all fine, you know what? They are not obligated to like it. I think a lot of people didn't give Star Trek Beyond a fair shot, but that doesn't mean they should like just because it's a movie that exists.
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Peter G.
Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 10:43pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Infinite Regress

@ alcoremor,

I guess you might say that Seven's character progression forward in the series was marked by...infinite regress.
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alcoremor
Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 9:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Infinite Regress

Wow, what richly humorous observations the last two commenters made!

As Jammer has observed, Seven’s character development has been one step forward, the producers and writers not remembering or caring about what that step was, and then a subsequent episode that may be a step backward.

For the writers to have established a linear progression of her development, they would first have to have someone surgically pry their fingers off the weekly reset button.

Season 5 in particular highlighted this problem: several episodes including this one were about “Seven is being called back by the collective somehow!” - it’s hard to write her as a living, breathing character when she is constantly at the mercy of the folks who ran the UPN promo department.

What did Seven really “learn” by the end of the show? Upon the conclusion of the last stand-alone episode she was in, “Natural Law,” the answer was nothing. (Whatever happened in Endgame to her and everyone else was so Jeri-rigged that it’s hard to remember any specific character beats, save for Harry Kim’s laugh-Out-loud proclamation that “It’s always been about the journey, not the destination!”)
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Patrick
Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Children of Time

I think the newer wiser Odo should have got in the Defiant with the original Odo and flown into the anomaly. They could keep doing this over and over again every 200 years, increasing the number of Odos exponentially until they have enough to create a Great Link that would rival the Dominion.
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Machias
Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 5:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S4: Concerning Flight

I really enjoyed this episode. I understand there were some plot holes along the way but honestly, it's a good Star Trek episode to escape into. If you have to, pretend it's a holonovel gone rogue. Turn the safety off. Occasionally we all have to escape.
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Moegreen
Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 3:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: A Simple Investigation

Apparently Odo sees no need in having the computer notify him when weapons go off in random quarters on the station. Ye olde 24th century 2nd amendment. 'Just another domestic'.
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MadBaggins
Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 3:43pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Timeless

Who fucking CARES if they made a mild continuity error with Seven getting drunk? Does that REALLY spoil a great episode like this? You fucking nerds don't deserve nice things.
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