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SlackerInc
Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:32am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: First Contact

I really liked this episode too. I should give Jammer all the credit for leading me to it. I have been watching Voyager with my wife and daughters for several years now, along with a little bit of TOS (we recently watched “the one with the whales”) but never TNG. Just the other day we watched the Voyager episode that had the imposter Boothby, and I commented that he was from TNG. That got my youngest daughter curious about this show, so I decided to find an episode for us to watch together.

But I have probably only seen a couple dozen TNG episodes myself, and the ones that came to mind were either too atypical (“Measure of a Man”, “Inner Light”), or too scary (Borg), or both. The same problem came up when I googled “best TNG episodes”.

So I decided to just scroll through the listings here and look for four-star episodes that sounded like they would be a good introduction to the show. There are probably others that would be better to illustrate how things actually work on the ship (and my daughter still wants to see the “real Boothby”), but I was very happy with how this turned out.

I found Riker having sex with the alien woman amusing and didn’t think much more of it than that. But reading the discussion here I can see that it is a legitimate perspective to see it as a kind of rape, coming from coercion. I would thread the needle and say that instead, Riker basically temped as a sex worker. If the woman had held a gun on him when he was walking down the street and taken him prisoner and told him he could not leave unless he had sex with her, that would be rape. But she was not really the agent in charge of his custody, and she was willing to offer him something of value at risk to her own status in exchange for the sex, so it was really a kind of barter.

Jason R. wrote:

————
If you were an astrophysicist and we were discussing, say, neutron stars, that would be one thing. That is such a discrete arcane discipline that most people wouldn’t dream of challenging a bona fide expert.

But unfortunately, sociology is a discipline that overlaps with a lot of everyday topics like politics, philosophy, anthropology, that everyday laypeople must be entitled to an opinion on and can't just agree to defer to "experts" on without effectively surrendering their inherent human right to participate in the public square.
————

Both my mother and wife are sociologists, and I agree with Jason about this (sometimes to their chagrin, LOL).

@spmsmith: Great point about the doctor.
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Silly
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 9:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Juggernaut

It’s weird, the “regret” scene of Torres at the very end confuses me a bit. It seems to suggest a connection to her anger issue, which would make sense to bookend the episode, but it doesn’t.

She wasn’t angry toward the core worker. She was understanding and tried to reason with him. She feels badly having to kill him because he’s a victim.


The only way I can see the ending connecting to Torres’s anger issue is that the core worker is operating on pure anger, and defeating him is symbolic of her defeating her own anger. But viewing her that would make her look like a monster. Would make no sense.
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Maya
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 9:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: In the Pale Moonlight

This is the very best episode in DS9 and no doubt one of the very best in the whole franchise. Right along Best of Both World for me.
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Austin
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 7:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: The Voyager Conspiracy

Pretty good in my opinion. What if Seven got hooked on InfoWars, or got sucked into a YouTube rabbit hole, and used all the facts to say coronavirus is a hoax! I mean she would have to be malfunctioning right?

Seriously though, to try and take the jumbled mess that was Voyagers first few seasons and make a semi-coherent conspiracy theory was actually kind of impressive. I don’t have an issue with Janeway and Chakotay investigating more, I think it’s less of them getting sucked in and more of an obligation to investigate. I see it all the time at the hospital. Someone comes into the ER with chest pain after eating 5-alarm chili, and you know it’s probably 99% heartburn, but you gotta check the heart out to make sure it’s not the other 1% heart attack. The fact that 2 sentences of dialogue diffused the situation shows they didn’t take it too seriously.

Good SF really helps you view the current situation, and I think now more than ever you can see how dangerous it is to take isolated facts, and twist them to your own agenda. I’d give it a 3/4
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Dirk
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 7:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Crossfire

I loved the introvert conversation between Worf and Odo. Funny but so true!

I thought the scene with Odo and Quark in Odo's quarters was poignant. Two guys on opposite sides of the law, but highly observant. Quark is a really well portrayed character - and I can appreciate that while also loathing the character.

Painful to watch...and not especially entertaining; but useful for many reasons.
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Dom
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 7:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

The Lower Decks trailer makes Into Darkness look like a masterpiece. I'm just done with Trek.
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Tommy D.
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Dave in MN

Since my response was in jest (maybe I need to work on my humor execution in Jammer land) to Samuel's post above mine, I'm not sure what you're responding to at all, especially in regards to lower decks, given I haven't made any post regarding the trailer.

As far as the lower decks trailer, I thought the ship looked cool. But I'm not into animated stuff all that much so if I do watch it will be at my own pace.
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Thierafhal
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: The Aenar

Gotta emphatically disagree that Jammer is biased against Enterprise. This episode was a dissapointment and he still gave it 2 stars; I think he was generous, considering. If this was reworked as a stand alone episode, i think it would have been an intriguing drama, but as part 3 of a triology, it felt aimless and unnecessary. All part 2 needed was a decisive ending and we'd have a good two-parter that took us to a similar place that part 3 didn't build much upon.
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Yanks
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 4:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I'm afraid you're right Booming. It really saddens me. I've enjoyed Discovery (season 2 to the most part) and most of the Short Treks.... but they are missing the jist of Trek IMO.
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Thierafhal
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 4:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: United

What botheres me about the loophole plot contrivance the most wasn't that it existed, but how easily Archer defeated Shran. Yes he didn't end up killing him, but he had Shran at his mercy and could have ended the fight with a kill at any time at that point. The episode makes a bit of a deal about the overwhelming likelyhood of Shran winning the fight because Andorians are proficient with this form of combat from a young age. The loophole thing is still silly, but the episode handles it rather poorly regardless.
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Thierafhal
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 4:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: United

@John Daniels: This was discussed in the episode. The wound appeared superficial, but the weapon was set to kill and even Talas being only grazed was enough to cause enough damage to kill her.
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Booming
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 3:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Yanks
There are fine meals, there is McDonalds and then there are Trekkie tastes. We have fairly specific demands: smart science fiction, hopeful, positive maybe even normative. A world were Humans live in some form of harmony.

NuTrek is McDonalds. It is not for Trekkies.
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Booming
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 3:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Galaxy's Child

As unrealistic as her career is. There is a difference between the power in a specific situation and what society perceives as a higher social position.
In other words a, unemployed person can sexually assault a CEO of a company.
Nuance...
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Kindred
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Conscience of the King

In my opinion, a lot of the story points were forced forward and I didn't enjoy it as much as other episodes.

Riley was 1. used as bait by Kirk and 2. he didn't even get protection.
McCoy files a verbal report sensitive to Riley in Riley's earshot.
Redshirt lets Lady Macbeth disarm him like nothing.

Lazy writing in multiple places basically. And Lady Macbeth's overacting was a shame.
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Andersonh1
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 1:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Latent Image

As a conspiracy episode that becomes a "nature of existence" episode, I really enjoyed the questions that it raised. It's good for the show to occasionally remind us that the Doctor is not in fact a real person, but a simulated person. The question is, has he become such an enormously complex simulation that he is now essentially like Data, an artificial lifeform that is self-aware and as close to being genuinely alive as he can be? Have the Voyager crew, by treating him just like all the living flesh and blood crew members, in fact given him a soul, as Janeway asks? Would they have been right to wipe his memory back when he was first activated, but is is wrong now, after he's grown so much?

It's little wonder the show returned to these questions again and again, particularly in the last season, and it's no wonder "Picard" has been exploring the implications of artificial life forms as advanced as we see on Star Trek. It's fascinating sci-fi material for storytelling.
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Eamon
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 11:16am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Ooof. Lower Decks.... was this someone’s kid’s idea of a joke that their producer relative was like “hey wait a minute??? $$$$$”

At this point, who is Star Trek for? Existing and old fans aren’t served by what Star Trek has become. All the cynical, nihilistic revisions wont make new audiences care.

Who are they producing this crap for?
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James G
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 10:48am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Galaxy's Child

I don't think that there's a suggestion that Brahms is of lesser authority than LaForge. I think it's the other way round. But he has her at a disadvantage in the sense that he knows her, more personally than is usual for someone whom she is entitled to regard as a stranger.
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Yanks
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 9:17am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Booming,

I also saw the trailer and while I'm always stoked for new Trek I'm not sure I have any desire to watch this.
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Booming
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 6:29am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Wow, I watched the trailer. Not that I'm really interested in anything Star Trek anymore but this... wow... It is like watching somebody having sex with a corpse and that corpse is Star Trek.

Nihilism, emotions and idiocy.
That is what Star Trek is now.
Another sacrifice on the altar of marketability.
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Dave in MN
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:12am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Paradise

*acting style

This is what I get for posting before Ive had coffee.
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Dave in MN
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:10am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Paradise

The voice (and song style) of the actress is indeed very annoying.

However, in her defense, I must point out that In America (at least in the Midwest and Northeast where I've lived), the "H" in herbs is silent.
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Dave in MN
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:01am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Tommy D

I'm not advocating banning this new show or making it so the cast and creators are unemployable for life. People are allowed to make mistakes once in a while. (I don't believe in cancel culture, it's censorship).

I'm just saying Lower Decks looks cheesy/cringey and derivative of every other sarcastic surreal modern cartoon. Other than the setting, I don't see much that reminds me of Star Trek: there's no aspiration or idealism or philosophy at play (that I can see).

The first character we're introduced to is ruthlessly mocked for showing ambition and imagination .... and of course, he's the one that has no bravery or courage. Everyone is shown as behaving unprofessionally. The other characters scream and shout like a bunch of unruly teenagers. "Jokes" are pounded into the ground. The animation .... yeah, it's just not very good (except for the still backgrounds of the ship, that's the only Trek thing they got right).

Feel free to watch this tone-deaf abomination, Tommy. It can air 20 seasons, for all I care.
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Tommy D.
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 4:20am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

#WhoCancelstheCancelers
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Sarjenka's Brother
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:12am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S4: The Omega Directive

Usually, I think Jammer and a lot of the gang are a little hard on the show.

This time, I find the roles reversed. Jammer liked the show a little more than I did.

I WANTED to like it more. All the pieces were there. I think maybe this is the kind of show that would actually work better in a novel. I find a tad on the boring side. (I did like 7 of 9's attempts at efficient crew organization).
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Sarjenka's Brother
Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 2:07am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S4: Living Witness

Never saw this until today. I'm amazed how many Voyagers I missed until I began this recent beginning-to-end viewing.

I'm with the majority this time. Not only is this one of Voyager's finest hours, it's one of the finest hours of any "Trek."

And it has more to say in 2020 than in the 20th century!
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