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Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 3:57am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: First Contact

I am oh so late to this party but I'm well underway in my marathon of TNG (complete), DS9 (on S3), Voyager (S1) and the 1st two TNG movies having just completed First Contact.

I absolutely loved it, especially after being a little let down by Generations' treatment of Kirk's demise and the 'cameos' of the core support cast. The writers seemed to have taken note and given each of the latter mentioned a decent piece of the pie.

I am surprised no one commended the following visuals/ideas that were well done:

1) The new Federation uniforms were a great standout and the lack of such a new spin on Generations was disappointing but made up for here. They looked sharp!

2) The Enterprise E's sleek modifications definitely made the viewer believe that this ain't no TV series but the Big Leagues. Even the warp effect got an upgrade.

3) Geordie's upgraded, new eyes were a magnificent idea and made me wonder why this was not thought of sooner, but lends itself to the idea of the Federation's technology naturally evolving.

4) Liked the evolution of Worf commanding the Defiant, though he relinquishes his captaincy and falls back into his role a bit too easily after being beamed back on board the Enterprise. Would have been nice to get some more insight into how he was selected and by whom.

5) This was mentioned before but Data's more controlled use of his emotion chip was much welcomed.

6) Glad to see the Borg a formidable force again after the Lore storyline/ involvement in TNG derailed that potency somewhat, leaving their demise to interpretation.

This outing gets a 3.5 from me.
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Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 3:17am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

The worst season of Star Trek ever.

Except the Data stuff which was good, all the rest was just atrocious. I won't go into details, it was described in the comments before me. The loose ends, the sloppy writing, the cliches.

I forced myself to watch it like a week after the release, could barely get through it and will not be tuninv in for season 2.

Orville is the only Star Trek left, Picard is just atrocious and i hate them for bastardazing a beloved character.
What a disapointment of a season that was...
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Peter G.
Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 3:07am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Andy's Friend,

"Ten days ago you were arguing that a mere software change in a machine does the trick, and that ‘learning’ for a machine is most likely synonymous with upgrading or updating the software. Now, you bring us Sardeshkar, who argues, as I have always maintained, the necessity of ‘synthetic biology’, those ‘analogue computers like nature does’, and imply that you agree with him. So you may perhaps understand my bewilderment."

I believe Quincy's argument is something to do with the assumption (by the actual episodes in question) that Data's hardware is already sophisticated enough to support sentience, but that it was lacking the requisite software to activate it. The positions seems to be based on the notion that while "ones and zeroes" cannot be sentience itself, the correct software is still necessary (but not sufficient) for the hardware to function properly. In this context Quincy defines software as the correct configuration or alignment of the correct type of hardware (which can be wetware or not), which need not be binary, or at least exclusively binary.

So while I can see why you were confused, I think the confusion originates from something that confused me too originally, which was that it sounded like Quincy was arguing that simply altering Data's programming ifso facto made him alive/sentient/conscious to the satisfaction of a telepath. Actually it appears to me now that the argument was that Data's brain was already sufficient but didn't have the right programming, so the change in programming got him the rest of the way. The "his hardware was already good enough" premise wasn't clear to me at the time, but I think that's what's causing the confusion.

Incidentally I'll note, specifically about those episodes (for instance the one with Ira Graves) for what it's worth, that the only change we register in data (about Data) is that Troi couse sense Data's thoughts. But it's entirely possible that her abilities are limited to similarly constituted humanoids and that her senses can't recognize other types of thinking and feeling patterns. So it's possible that Data *already was* sentient but not in a way she could sense, and after some transformation appeared on her radar, being sentient but just thinking in a way more familiar to her.
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Andy's Friend
Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 2:30am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2


I didn’t respond to your conversation with Jason R. because that is uninteresting to me: I never defended the primacy of wetware. But surely men are allowed to take strands of conversations to initiate other conversations or return to old ones, don’t you think?

But you must understand that if you subscribe to your own example, Sardeshkar, then we are actually in agreement, you and I.

There have long existed two different and opposed views on the future of artificial consciousness:
— i) It is all a matter of software. With sufficiently complex, sophisticated, adaptive, etc., etc. programming, we can endow artificial beings with consciousness. This faction traditionally has spoken of artificial ‘sentience’ as ‘strong Artificial Intelligence’;
— ii) No amount of software will ever suffice. It is a matter of hardware. For beings to possess consciousness, they must possess cognitive architecture that replicates (‘duplicates’, ‘simulates’, ‘emulates’, ‘recreates’, let’s for a moment not delve on semantics) actual, natural, biological cognitive architecture. This growing faction, which Sardeshkar and my previous examples represent, speaks of artificial sentience as ‘Artificial Consciousness’;

I have maintained position ii) here for the past six or seven years . The posts are all there and are quite lengthy at that.

Note therefore that I have never defended the primacy of wetware over general hardware. I do *not* adhere to biological chauvinism. Or, to use Pandey’s euphemism, ‘ontologically conservative hetero-phenomenology’.

Ten days ago, you wrote to Peter G.:

“I just gave numerous examples of TNG demonstrating that androids can spontaneously start broadcasting emotions to Counselor Troi with no change in physical hardware. How is this possible? Shouldn't they lack the wetware to broadcast emotions? Unless... no such wetware is required. And *a mere software change in a sapient machine does the trick.*

Data is a *learning computer*. For Data and his progeny *"learning" is most likely synonymous with upgrading or updating their software* (…).”
('Et In Arcadia Ego, Pt I', 21 Mar 2020, emphasis added.)

Granted, you were talking about Star Trek, which as we know can be vague and inconsistent. And here and there, you also talk about hardware. But per quotes as the one above, I thought that you firmly adhered to position i) above. My mistake, it seems.

For now you give us Sardeshkar, who is arguing for the opposite side in the debate. Sardeshkar insists that it is not the software that matters, ‘the ones and zeroes that we think are so great’. As he so well puts it and I quoted, we must understand how the wet and the dry are very deeply connected, and we must therefore 'learn to be amphibians'. This is why he advocates for us to abandon modern digital computers and binary code and return to analogue computers. Sentience, consciousness, awareness: it would seem that the artificial mind must evolve organically (for lack of a better word) thanks to artificial, cognitive architecture that emulates nature; he outright calls it ‘synthetic biology’.

Ten days ago you were arguing that a mere software change in a machine does the trick, and that ‘learning’ for a machine is most likely synonymous with upgrading or updating the software. Now, you bring us Sardeshkar, who argues, as I have always maintained, the necessity of ‘synthetic biology’, those ‘analogue computers like nature does’, and imply that you agree with him. So you may perhaps understand my bewilderment.

I hope you agree with the scientist you referred. For in that case, we would seem to be in agreement, too.
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Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 2:16am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Fortunate Son

That was an epic circle-jerk by dlpb and micheal...
Poor guys, they seem so scared of change.
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Picard Maneuver
Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 2:09am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Aquiel

All these scenes with Renée Jones and LeVar Burton and no Emmy for outstanding acting? "i'M sCareD GeoRdi" should have been the clincher. At least the dog should have been honored. It was the best part of the show.

LaForge is such a simp and ironically the opportunistic nice guy women need to be wary of, even though I realize that wasn't what they we going for. She gets him back, though, by dumping him the moment his advocacy no longer has any use in getting her out of murder charges. Not even a cushy job offering does it for her; she wants to get away from him that badly and with a "I'm doing my hair that day" tier excuse to boot.

P.S. Just use a fucking putty knife to scrape some DNA off the metal plate! Jesus Christ how hard can it possibly be? God awful CGI on that goo, too. Yikes.
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Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 1:50am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

@ Dave
I don't want to call it the genius of the Mandalorian because it really isn't all that genius, let's call it the smart gamble of the show is to tell small and simple stories. That is the real difference. For 10 years or more we have seen one doomsday scenario after another. Even STP used the incredibly overused "Beam creates gate to evil/doomsday" trope from almost every superhero movie. Society was in love with these stupid movies. The only superhero movie I really liked was "Logan" and that was coincidentally also a small story where the heroes were far from borderline/completely invincible. Bottom line. I think in the future we will see more small stories. And ,even though it is horribly manipulative, baby yoda is the cutest thing ever. I want to reach into the screen and hug and care for that little bugger.
The Orville, more by accident I believe, also tells smaller stories, which is one of the good things so far. I'm not sure when I will continue but there is definitely a good chance that I will like it somewhat because now that I know that STP was a thud like Discovery, the Orville shines a lot brighter. Still working my way through Disney+ though (7 day free trail) and I must repeat that I have no idea why anybody would need more than a few days of that subscription. Netflix has a gigantic library, Amazon Prime has a pretty big one and one can also rent stuff there but Disney+ has maybe half a dozen movies and the Mandalorian that interest me. Maybe it is aimed at families with young children. But starting your streaming service shortly before a pandemic that forces everybody to stay at home is almost incredible luck. I waiting for the conspiracy theories about secret Disney bio weapon labs in China.
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Dave in MN
Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 1:43am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

In current English, how many colloquialisms, metaphors and slang terms come from Shakespeare?

How about Ben Franklin?

Mark Twain?

I'm assuming English won't be the same in 400 years, but I imagine that some modern phrases will still be in usage.
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Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 12:49am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

"I'll definitely be tuning in for Season 2. "

Will be interesting to see how they bring Guinan into it.
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Dave in MN
Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 12:47am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

@ Booming

To me, The Mandalorian has the same feel to it that The Goonies and Indiana Jones have: it's pure adventure with a likeable cast. I can't imagine a kid under 13 that wouldn't find it appealing.

No spoilers of course, but having seen the whole thing, my opinion is that there's not much by way of intellectual depth to the show, the characters are perhaps too broadly sketched and the nostalgia-baiting is sometimes too obvious.

Still, The Mandalorian generally succeeds at what it attempts and not many shows nowadays can say that.

PS: I can't wait to see your review of the next Orville episode! I think you'll like it (he said hopefully).
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James White
Sat, Apr 4, 2020, 12:02am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Quincy, just stop. Honestly, you're making a fool of yourself
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 10:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

The use of contemporary slang ("pissing me off", "did you f**k any of them") is beyond tiresome.

It;s 2399. It would be like people in 2020 still using jargon from the era of Jamestown and Plymouth.
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 10:14pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Andy's Friend

Once again you've come to an overblown and erroneous conclusion. Your entire post had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Jason R. claimed that you needed a physical body to interact inside some vaguely specified environment and together that is perhaps the recipe for the emergence of intelligence. I questioned the assumptions inherent in those specifications and the vagueness thereof.

I understood Sarpeshkar just fine. Did you? No, I didn't change my mind. No, I didn't argue against it's principles. I've stated them and you simply failed to understand what I was talking about. And instead of clarifying with me, you substituted your vague notion of what I was talking about and argued against that. A straw man by any other name is still a straw man.

Sarpeshkar's talking about emulating the principles of biology and leveraging the massive parallelism and built in logic/calculations/computations available in the laws of physics and chemistry. I never once claimed that digital programming was either sufficient or necessary for intelligence. That's something you pulled out of your ass, as my prior comment about 0s and 1s to Jason R. indicates. He was the one who brought up digital, not me. The prototype device would probably be a hybrid device: digital for ease of programmability and analog for the raw power of computation. Call it a digalog computer.

I don't know what you think software is. Software is just information embedded in some form. There is nothing called "software" floating around disembodied in some more delicate corner of space-time. It's an arrangement of particles in some structure. Sarpeshkar is suggesting we arrange those particles in a different fashion according to different principles, not get rid of them altogether. If you somehow believe that "software" will magically be exorcised from a world of analog computers you're delusional. The software will simply have most of its logic embedded in the laws of physics or chemistry, rather than trying to express it as a sequence of logic gates.

When Sarpeshkar talks about building an analog device that electronically represents the functions of a kidney that's exactly what the hell I was talking to Jason R. about, simulating a body, rather than actually having a body. Sarpeshkar's not talking about actually building a god damned kidney. There's no wetware. You couldn't stick Sarpeshkar's analog device in your ass so you don't have to go to dialysis tomorrow. It's a programmable device (which yes includes software) capable of representing all of the functions in a kidney in terms of analog electrical signals. We could scale up Sarpeshkar's approach to represent an entire human body. There wouldn't be an actual human body walking around in any kind of real environment; there would be an analog representation of a body interacting with an analog representation of an environment inside a device or a stack of devices as Sarpeshkar described in his talk, which is EXACTLY what the hell I was talking about.

Sarpeshkar even refers to his prototype concept chip as "Digitally Programmable Analog Cytomorphic Supercomputers." How the hell could you have missed that? He actually talks about placing a bunch of chips on a PC board and building multiple stacks of these boards as large as the room he was talking in. He then says that if they did just that "in five to ten years we could possibly SIMULATE the entire human body." If he calls it simulating, why the hell wouldn't I call it simulating? There would be no wetware anywhere in sight, despite your claims, only the simulation (there's that word again) of wetware with analog electronic signals. You don't need wetware; you only need something just as robust as wetware. And we have all of physics to search for that.

All that crap attempting to draw a distinction between the EMH and Data is just nonsense. The EMH's software, whatever form it takes, is implemented on some type of computer. Someone pointed out above that none of the computers in question need even be digital. In Voyager's case that's the Bio-neural gel packs of which Voyager's computer system was composed of, OR, the magical mobile emitter, which we have no idea of what it's composed of. How you expect me to believe that either one of those things can't do what also magical positronic circuitry could do is ridiculous, especially in light of the source material (TNG, Voyager, etc) telling us otherwise.
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Tim M.
Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 8:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Agree 100% with Jammer's review.

This season had its flaws, but gets an overall thumbs-up from me.

I'll definitely be tuning in for Season 2.
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 8:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Emanations


>Can anyone hear Picard talking like this? Relating a possible scientific release of energy to confirming a religious belief? I like it, she's her own self/Captain.

In TNG 2x02 “Where Silence Has Lease” Data asks Picard "What is death", Picard replies with an almost religious answer, "Considering the marvelous complexity of the universe, its clockwork perfection, its balances of this against that, matter, energy, gravitation, time, dimension, I believe that our existence must be more than either of these philosophies. That what we are goes beyond Euclidean or other "practical" measuring systems, and that our existence is part of a reality beyond what we understand now as reality."


>The Klingons for one don't give a crap about the bodies after they die.

Not unless you count Discovery as canon (which I don't).


>Harry basically breaks the prime directive by showing/telling a society that all their beliefs are nonsense and they just rot in a cave. It would have been better to show the society wide repercussions of that and how ridiculous it was that people were choosing to die for their blind faith.


>Should Harry lie to them to avoid breaking the prime directive? Is lying to them about their religious beliefs moral?

Usually he should lie due to the prime directive but I think he had interfered enough already just by being there. So like in TNG 3x04 "Who Watches the Watchers" where they accidentally contaminate the culture of a primitive society, Picard chose to reveal who he was.
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 6:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Two Days and Two Nights

So I'm actually watching the episode right now. I don't know if anyone else noticed I read a lot of the comments on how people were upset with the story line. But what I noticed on the Risa gal. She had spots an if anyone else would know that means she was a Trill. The plot-story doesn't back it up. Says she was augmented to look that way - human. But if you follow on all the other shows... the spots down the face/neck an stomach would indicate her as a trill
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Jeffrey Jakucyk
Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 5:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Samaritan Snare

So I don't understand what the writers were thinking with that ruse at the end. The Enterprise crew tricks the Pakleds into believing Geordi is a weapons expert; that's fine, but what did Geordi actually give them? He said their existing weapons sucked, and he could maybe cobble something together with some slightly improved antimatter yield. A quick scene with Riker, Data, and Sonya Gomez suggests that the Pakleds have "weapons potential", whatever that means.

Anyway, after turning some knobs and pushing some buttons, Geordi tells the two Packleds "you have photon torpedos, you are strong!" The Enterprise then detects photon torpedos and they start their final showdown with the 24-second counter. Geordi rushes around the Pakled ship disabling their weapons before the Enterprise blows its hydrogen out the bussard collectors, making it look like the "crimson forcefield" neutralized the Pakled's new photon torpedos.

What. The. Actual. Hell.

On the Enterprise they acted like Geordi needed to get their "hidden" message and timing was of the essence. After he beams back, Riker asks "were you able to disable the photons?" Geordi responds, "just in time, that's why you're still here." What? We're supposed to believe he somehow actually made photon torpedos, or upgraded some existing weapons of theirs, armed them, and then had to disable them at the last minute? Then after all that, just left them there so the Pakleds can bumble around with them and maybe get them working after running into another Federation ship or who knows who else?

Geordi could so easily have just faked the whole thing. Since he (apparently) didn't leave that one room, how would the Pakleds know if he was able to make their torpedos stronger? Then just tell them "yup, they're totally ready, you can fire now," even though he totally disabled the crappy weapons they already had. It does not make sense. None of this makes sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!

I really liked the Picard/Wesley scenes. We went from rude grumpy season-1 Picard to nuanced backstoried human season-4 Picard in barely a half hour. Kudos for that.
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 4:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2


I think the commenters that asked why people continued watching something they disliked becomes more relevant now that the season is over when deciding how to approach next season.

I’ve been critical of the series all season but got invested halfway, so I needed to sit through just to see if I might get some satisfaction. Sorta like deciding whether to finish a new movie halfway thorough. Sometimes I will stop watching a new movie if I really don’t see any upside (I’m referring to non theater movies). (It’s rare for a movie to turn itself around in the last half in my experience.) PIC still had some upside halfway through the season.

Now, if I start watching Season 2, I run the risk of getting invested again in a substandard series. I think my strategy for next season is to look at Jammers stars ranking next to each episode, and if there’s a large preponderance of 3+ star reviews, to only then consider investing again. Because this is a serial, it’s an almost all or nothing affair, compared to episodic where I can pick and choose.

Too many shows on TV now to waste time and frustration. I’ve got a huge backlog to watch. Unfortunately can’t let the Trek brand draw me in either.
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 4:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Ashes to Ashes

So when Harry "got it on" with the Ballard did he say "I can't get a lock"?
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 3:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I agree that the "super-race" we got was "super-stupid". However, I'm not sure how much would be gained by making them interesting. It depends on what you wanted the show to be about.

If you wanted it to be about scifi, then absolutely the AI should have been a revelation and something for both the audience and the characters to learn from. However, this would essentially make Picard's relationship with Soji irrelevant. In this scenario, Picard and Soji and Oh and everyone would end up on an even playing field where they were all wrong via misinformation. Picard's belief that Soji can be a good person is no longer what mattered - instead the real issue is that everyone needs to learn not to make assumptions based on stories/myths. Just a different, still Trekkian take.

If you wanted the show to be about Picard and Soji as characters, then the actual AI are not very relevant. They're just plot devices to enforce (ludicrous) physical stakes which dovetail with the emotional and ideological ones. Soji needs to learn to overcome her fear due to her trauma and betrayals, learn to trust again, and, you know, not commit genocide (the ludicrous part). Picard needs to learn how to actually help her to see this by providing an example of trust and selflessness, rather than simply telling her what she must and mustn't do. I still think that's a reasonable Trekkian take which could have worked well if the stakes weren't so bonkers
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 3:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

"I would have preferred if the big reveal of this super advanced AI that is awaiting a call was more like Lorien from B5 ; a cerebral answer of someone who has evolved beyond even the most advanced beings; than a faceless action figure bent on destroying the universe through a summoning portal."

Oh, agree x1000. But then, B5 was actual sci-fi and not action/adventure like PIC. And I find that sadly, it validates what Kurtzmann is doing that all we need to want to tune in each week is that it's new and is called Star Trek. Because despite all the crap we sat through for 10 hours, most of us WILL watch the next season.
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Jamie Mann
Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 3:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: The Cloud

I'm not sure when, but at some point I came up with a simple way to score Voyager episodes.

It may well have been this episode.

Holodecks? Check.
Annoying historical setting and deliberately cliched characters within the Holodeck? Check.
Bonus implied use of holodeck characters for sexual activities? Bonus check!
Implausible technological issues? Check.
Blatant and deliberate misunderstanding of astrophysics? Check.
Cliched native-american pseudo-mysticism as an alternative to even a holographic counciller? Check.
And finally: Neelix? Check.

Overall, I make that 7 points deducted. And there's little or nothing to balance them out.

Were the writers really this hard up for ideas?

Why do we have a ship that's desperately low on resources, but still has enough power to fuel the Holodeck (as it's a "different" kind of power)?

Why are we subjected to the hologram of a French dive bar featuring characters which could only be more cliched if they were waving a French flag while wearing a beret and showing off the latest style in garlic-bulb necklaces?

Why does Voyager (and to be grudgingly fair, DS9 as well) insist on making nebulas dense clouds of gas? In the real world, a nebula might be a gigantic cloud of gas, but it's still lower density than the best vacuum that can be formed on Earth.

As such, they're literally invisible when viewed up close. And if they were any denser, Voyager would tear itself apart when trying to to pass through them at any appreciable fraction of the speed of light, regardless of how good it's particle shielding is. Because as portrayed in Voyager, a nebula features practically atmospheric pressure levels!

Then there's Chakotay's spirit animal mumbo jumbo. Frankly, the concept as shown in this episode owes more to new-age Californian mysticism, by way of Victorian spiritualism) than any actual Native American tradition.

And yeah. Neelix. The court jester, settling into his role as a secondary character who provides light relief. So much for a "breakout" character!

Equally, if Voyager has all this power spare for the holodeck, why not spin up a virtual councillor in much the same way as the good Doctor? People such as Freud and Leonardo Da Vinci are in Voyager's databanks, so why not have the system generate a 24th century therapist? If nothing else, it could have been a perfect way to pull in Deanna Troi as a recurring cameo, and given the series an opportunity to explore the dynamics of how two separate holographic characters could evolve over the course of the series.

Still, Voyager was rarely anything other than the king of missed opportunities...
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Jamie Mann
Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 2:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Phage

At last, it's time for a new alien species! What wonders will we behold?

Sadly, there's not much to celebrate.

The new aliens are a cross betwen Frankenstein and his monster: aliens suffering from an uncurable degenerative disease, which they have addressed by stealing body parts from other species with their advanced medical technology.

Sorry. What?

This species has medical technology which is superior to the Federations. In fact, taken in combination with their holographic and shielding technology, they're generally more technologically advanced than the Federation.

So how are they using this technology? They roam the galaxy, looking for sentient beings they can butcher.

Instead of, say, implementing cloning technology. As per the TNG episode Up The Long Ladder, Humanity had access to reliable cloning technology at least 300 years ago (i.e. pre-Federation), so why is this species not using their radically more advanced technology to produce cloned body parts?

Even if they can't use their own DNA due to the plague, they could trade for DNA from other species, and the aforementioned Mariposa colony managed to last nearly 300 years without any infusions of new DNA.

Alternatively, they could use non-sentient creatures. Or use their advanced technology to replace affected body parts with cybernetic alternatives. Or...

Basically, there's lots of options for this species to deal with their situation /without/ roaming the quadrant as grave robbers and murderers.

They're monsters, purely for the sake of being monsters. Cheers, writers!

Beyond this, the rest of the episode is pretty weak. Neelix sadly doesn't die, despite having his lungs ripped out. The sub-plot about Dereth's regrets rings very hollow, when you consider how he was responsible for Neelix's sudden organ loss - and just left him to die where he fell after said extraction.

(And we never really get an explanation as to why the Vidiians were sitting inside a camouflaged cave on an empty planet; the only potential explanation I can think of is that the writers were trying to go for some sort of "trapdoor spider" theme, possibly with the dilithium as bait.)

And when Neelix does get a new lung, it's one of Kes's, thanks to the Vidiian's uber-medical technology. Never mind the fact that with her ten-year lifespan, it'll probably fall apart before the end of the season.

But the icing on the cake is that Janeway releases the Vidiian's with little more than a finger-wag and a toothless warning. Despite the fact that they're self-confessed murderers and are guaranteed to kill again.

At this point, I'm starting to lose faith in Voyager's ability to produce a story of any real worth at all...
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Kevin B
Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 2:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Nor the Battle to the Strong

Didn't like this episode of star trek deep space nine. I think the show has much better episodes which are much more relatable then this one. I think the problem this episode suffers from is what much of the series suffers from nowadays when watching it...the war scenes particularly the battle scenes just don't look believable. This show was made before 9/11 happened and the world got used to violent wars and their effects which can now be seen with the click of a button. What star trek deep space nine presents us with as battle scenes almost look like costume theatre by comparison.

Having said all that from a character development point of view DS9 is still the best trek series out there and much better then discovery.
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Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 2:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Anyone agree or disagree with this...

I would have preferred if the big reveal of this super advanced AI that is awaiting a call was more like Lorien from B5 ; a cerebral answer of someone who has evolved beyond even the most advanced beings; than a faceless action figure bent on destroying the universe through a summoning portal.

I think it would have been much more satisfying for it to be misunderstood and actually some advanced lifeform that can teach something and is not an actual threat (that was made from myth and fear).

It ended up making the entire plot worthless to be something so faceless and just shut down so quickly like that.
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