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Gerontius
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 7:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Violations

I think there were the makings of a better episode there, but what we goy was somewhat confusing. The physical rape effort at the end didn't make sense - I imagine it was there to allow Troi to strenuously and effectively defend herself, which suppose was meant to give here dignity a boost.

What I'd have liked would have been for Troi's memories to give rise to a false belief that Riker had once raped her, and that she'd repressed that memory up till then. This would ultimately have been exposed as a false memory put there by Jev.

I disagree with the suggestion that Picard's little sermon was in any way patronising.
It's a mistake to read his talk of human society has having evolved beyond our violent past as being about physical evolution. He's talking about cultural evolution, and he's quite right to remind us that the changes that can bring are extremely fragile. At least as true in the 21st century as in the 24th. (And vice versa, undoubtedly.)
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Dave in MN
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 6:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

^

I'm not big on emoji, but this deserves a 🤣😂

I'm steeling myself for the first episode of Lower Ds., but I won't deny that a part of me is interested to see just how bad it gets.

Will it be worse than Cats The Movie? We shall see ....
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Trent
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 3:51pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Treksplainer: Dave, you just don't like modern, updated Trek. Kurtzman Trek is hardly unrecognizable.

DAVE: The issue isn't that Trek is unrecognizable, it's that Kurtzman Trek is recognizably total generic sh*t.

Treksplainer: You're stuck in the past! And the past wasn't so hot anyway!

Dave: Nah, Kurtzman-Trek is the kind of storytelling people used to watch Old Trek to avoid.

Treksplainer: Well I'm enjoying it. Maybe you should stop gatekeeping and dictating to fans what's good and what's not.

Dave: *bashes head on wall repeatedly* PICARD LITERALLY ENDS WITH THE FEDERATION'S GREATEST CAPTAIN STOPPING A ROMULAN ARMADA WITH A MAGICAL IMAGINATION IPHONE.

Treksplainer: Trek was always silly. Did you forget about Spock's Brain!

Dave: No. BUT I DON'T WANT AN ENTIRE SEASON OF IT.

Booming: *walks by* Guys, what's up?

Dave: F*CK OFF BOOMING!


.....is how all Trek debates will go under the Kurtzman Regime™.
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Dave in MN
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 3:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

A very good analogy, Marlboro.

It reminds me of when Smashing Pumpkins decided they were no longer a grunge band but am electronica outfit. Billy Corgan and Co. had the artistic license to do whatever they wished, of course, but the fandom evaporated when they heard the newer stuff. It wasn't the genre or style they were accustomed to and been conditioned to anticipate (hence the band going from selling 15 million albums to barely cracking a million).

There comes a point where something can become so unrecognizable as to no longer be what it purports to be.
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Marlboro
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 12:51pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

"Why do so many "real" Trek fans feel a need to be douches to those who are fans of the new stuff? "


Imagine you are a fan of classical music. Now imagine your favorite orchestra slowly phasing out the classics for "A Night of Nickelback" or "Biz Markie sings Puccini." Nobody likes seeing the things they love subsumed into something they dislike. If some people like Nickelback, that's fine. Just don't expect me to applaud when my local NPR station changes formats and starts playing bro rock.
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The Chronek
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 12:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I'll watch Lower Decks, but I'll wait on it. If I resubscribe to All Access for Discovery season 3, I'll binge it then. Or, if by some miracle, we get a definitive premiere date for Picard season 2, I'll wait until that premieres, then binge it all.

Gods. Why do so many "real" Trek fans feel a need to be douches to those who are fans of the new stuff? Get a life.
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Mark
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:25am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Let He Who Is Without Sin...

While I didn't hate this one with the passion that others did, it's certainly not great. Adding an episode that dark from Worf's past (oh, yeah, he killed a kid once, and we never mentioned it in eight seasons) is almost as bad as MacGyver's producers just randomly adding that he was a professional race driver once and it never got mentioned in the previous six seasons. But I liked Worf's innovative way of "attacking" Risa.

Semi humorously, Fullerton's version of fundamentalism kind of fell flat. In a society that apparently doesn't believe in hell, it's just not that scary.
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Peter G.
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 10:37am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

@ Booming,

Since there is no sign here of a psychosis I'm not sure that any of that applies. It is never stated that Timothy is having an actual delusion that he is an android, nor is any emotional content in the episode indicative of a psychotic break. He's just hiding behind roleplay and imitating his hero, you know, just like the title of the episode says. It's not called hero psychosis, it's called hero worship. So no, it's not dangerous to allow him to explore being calm and at peace while he gives himself time to come to terms with what's happened. It's also not bad to let him develop a bond with someone he trusts (Data) so that he doesn't have to live the trauma alone.

It's a very nice episode, and I agree it's typically underrated. This is one of the 'watch anytime' ones.
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Booming
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 10:10am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S7: Seventh Season Recap

fair and balanced.

Honestly it is a very bad argument. It is full of mistakes. The authors are clearly biased. It shows a lack of imagination.

This one really made me laugh because it is so obviously wrong.
"Firstly, it is already visible now that Western industrial (secondary) societies are turning into service (tertiary) economies and ultimately into financial (quaternary) economies."
When was this written? 1947? Hahaha.
Anybody with a vague understanding of economics knows that this is just nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-industrial_society#/media/File:Clark's_Sector_model.png

And that the text praises Star Trek Picard at the end and states that what we saw in TNG was just the shiny side of the coin really takes cake. Did CBS hire somebody for this?!
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Booming
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 9:35am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

Many even more highly qualified therapists will tell you that feeding a psychosis is not the same as exploring trauma under the watchful eye of a therapist.

Data is literally incapable of empathy and does not understand emotions because he doesn't have any. Sending a child in emotional turmoil to him is probably the worst decision a therapist could make. It is equivalent to sending the boy to a well-meaning psychopath.
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Yanks
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 9:28am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S7: Seventh Season Recap

I know I posted this in another thread that got derailed talking about Trek's future economy. But I guess we need it here too.

It really can't be summed up any better.

www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/economy.htm
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Hotel bastardos
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 9:15am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Sins of the Father

Another tremendous episode- demonstrating that Klingon politics are every bit as full of shit as all other kinds... Plus it's good to see Monsieur Picard steaming into those slags.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 7:25am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Glom

To be fair, due to the COVID-19 situation, many live TV shows are having trouble getting their new seasons produced.

That's why TPTB are concentrating on Lower Decks and that Nickelodeon Kid's Trek show (forget it's name): Animated is pretty much the only to go forward right now.
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wolfstar
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 7:06am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S7: Seventh Season Recap

Favorite DS9 episodes:

10. Past Tense
9. The Jem'Hadar
8. Call To Arms
7. Rocks And Shoals
6. Image In The Sand/Shadows And Symbols
5. The Siege Of AR-558/It's Only A Paper Moon
4. The Way Of The Warrior
3. The Visitor
2. Far Beyond The Stars
1. The Darkness And The Light

Least favorite DS9 episodes:

10. Children Of Time
9. Q-Less
8. The Emperor's New Cloak
7. Battle Lines
6. Dramatis Personae
5. Profit And Lace
4. Field Of Fire
3. Afterimage
2. A Simple Investigation
1. Extreme Measures
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John
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 6:58am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

Boomer - Many highly qualified therapists will get their clients to explore traumas, and some will tell you it's the only way to resolve them.
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wolfstar
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 6:38am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: All Good Things...

Favorite TNG episodes:

10. Skin Of Evil
9. Dark Page
8. Conspiracy
7. The Best Of Both Worlds
6. Yesterday's Enterprise
5. The Inner Light
4. Reunion
3. Q Who?
2. The Offspring
1. The Most Toys

Least favorite TNG episodes:

10. The Child
9. Masks
8. Emergence
7. Force Of Nature
6. The Naked Now
5. The Royale
4. Interface
3. Shades Of Gray
2. Loud As A Whisper
1. Hide And Q
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Booming
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 6:21am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

I agree with Jammer here. Never liked it.

Troy obviously found her degree in a cereal box. Not only does she think that it is good for the kid to follow his psychosis but also encourages other to support that mental state. She's gonna get sued, for sure.
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Jason R.
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 5:51am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

I also just can't stand the combination of that name and hairdo. It's just this cloying Lassie-ish Leave it to Beaver vibe. Wesley had alot of that too. You just wanna punch this kid.
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Jason R.
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 5:48am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

Count me among the supporters of this episode. I thought the relationship between Timothy and Data was totally plausible and still do. As a kid I thought Data was amazing and might have imitated him too if I could have. More than any other character, Data was the one I would have wanted to be like at Timothy's age. It's more than just him not having emotions and being this invulnerable being - there is just this serene calm that makes you just know that everything is going to be alright. This is the guy you want in your corner as a kid more than Riker, more than Worf or for that matter Thor or Ironman or whatever superhero. There really is something special to Spiner's performance.

That said one thing that really rubs me the wrong way with this is the way the senior staff are hemming and hawing over Timothy constantly. I can't quite put my finger on it but something about those scenes of Troi and the others worrying so much about this little kid's emotional upset is really grating and pretentious.
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Gerontius
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:14am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

I thought it was a pretty fair episode, a lot better than i remembered it. An interesting contrast to the previous one - I think placing the two together made sense in theory, though perhaps it was a shame they couldn't have found a way to interweave them. (Though I can't imagine the two boys getting on well together too readily.)

The school and the building bits were a bit lame, but I don't think that mattered much. What did work, and what was central to the episode, was the relationship with Data. There was a parallel with The Offspring, with Data tentatively building a link with a child in his care, and then losing it.

One character was excluded who could have greatly enriched the episode - - Data's cat, Spot.

I quite disagree with those who complained about the pacing as glacial. I loathe too much breakneck action, and much prefer taking enough time. But tastes differ.
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SlackerInc
Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:17am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Lower Decks

I knew Sito didn’t have plot armor, but it was still a kick in the gut for her not to survive.

Great episode. I have a couple friends who complain that the waiter character was poorly written, that a civilian worker on a ship would not act like that. It seemed fine to me, but I have no experience with the military.
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Nick
Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 11:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Jetrel

If anyone's interested, Garret Wang (Kim) and Robbie D. McNeil (Paris) give a very thorough criticism and analysis of this episode on their 'Delta Flyers' podcast. RDM is especially critical of the direction and story. Worth a listen for Voyager fans.
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Ari Paul
Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 11:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: When the Bough Breaks

Oh right..... right right, I forgot about the PEDOPHILE EPISODE. Those poor kids...only they will know what truly happened to them down there...

This one probably has Maurice Hurley all over it.
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Brian
Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 9:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Fallen Hero

Aside from that I thought I’d add that this was a very good episode... perhaps if Enterprise had been more focused, not necessarily totally serialized but focused the way DS9 was, around Volcan politics in episodes like this, it could have turned out better. It just seems laughable to me today that the Suits at Paramount thought they could squeeze out another episodic Star Trek series at this point... Voyager was shaky enough but to start a whole new series while continuing to insist it maintain an episodic nature so that viewers could see episodes out of order? Paramount killed the golden era of Trek with that requirement... yes it worked incredibly well (I think TNG may hold a record for most money made from a TV Drama) while it lasted with TNG but that was where there were fresh pastures...
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Brian
Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 8:27pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Fallen Hero

When watching this episode I was provided with a good way to articulate what I found wrong with T’Paul... and that is that she should have been played more like V’Lar. I always found T’Paul, unlike other main character Vulcans (Spock and Tuvock) to be played too robotically, more like an Android than a Vulcan. V’Lar does a good job of showing how Vulcans, despite being beings that dramatically emphasize logic, are still “people” (I would have said “still human” but of course that wouldn’t have worked).
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