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Atymiss
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 3:11am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

@Mike
Very good points.

Wasn't Riker distinctly 'on the large side' after the first few seasons of TNG? I don't remember Picard taking him to one side and telling him for the sake of his Starfleet career he needed to slim down.

The older Scotty was enormous, he was still the best engineer though!

Wouldn't some alien races be naturally different standard sizes to the perfect human? Bolians seems quite chubby. Should they not be allowed into Starfleet?
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Mike
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 2:44am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

There's no need to kill off or remove Georgiou. It's sometimes good to have a regular antagonistic/villainous character whose behavior is erratic (think Q, Baltar, Dukat, Weyoun, Bester) so having Saru lay down the law with her and tell her to behave or she's in the brig would add some dimensionality to her character, and conflict among the crew. It's not like she's genetically predisposed to act that way, and I think she's one of the better actors/actresses in the show.

On Tilly: Has it ever been suggested in any Trek episode that performance of Starfleet duties requires a body with low fat percentage? Or is this just speculation, like Trump's assertion that trans people in the military are a burden. Technology has already rendered many of the body's functions as obsolete in our time, so it's not hard to envisage the body as wholly obsolete in the future.
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Sen-Sors
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 2:37am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Actually no, the best thing they could do with Georgiou this season would be to make her the big bad. What reason does she have to actually care for this Micheal Burnham? Why wouldn't she want to rebuild what was taken from her? How exactly does she share Starfleet's values? Actually don't answer that. The point is Micheal has to kill her and make the face. It's perfect.
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Sen-Sors
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 2:26am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Earlier people were noting that STD-era Starfleet's notable values include planting bombs on planets, installing sockpuppet leaders on said planets, and animal torture. I submit that immediately funneling the former ruler of the Terran Empire into Starfleet black-ops, a position of great power and influence, is right up there in terms of clarifying values.

I think Michele Yeoh is a good actress and even now she is doing the best with the material given to her. The original Georgiu seemed like a promising character and a solid captain, but she, like Lorca, had to be sacrificed on the altar of Burnham. Now she's a cartoon villain who sticks out like a sore thumb; she's a murderous sociopath but the show seems to think she is also lovable and endearing, I think? Because she has fun with all the murdering she does? I dunno. It's bizarre.

At this point the best Mirror Georgiu can hope for is a pleasantly cliche death in battle while Micheal looks on making the Burnham-face. If they seriously go for reforming the Terran Empress into a model citizen because she's Micheal's new mommy that will make me feel sad, mad and overall bad.
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dave
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 2:01am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Re: Tilly Weight comments

In storyline, its inconceivable she would gain that much weight because that would mean being an unprofessional officer by not working out and blowing your meal plans out the window.

In real life, its unprofessional she would allow that to happen considering this is her current career to play a professional officer on a ship.

Outside of her job and her storyline, in the real world, its her body and she looks great. So I think that doesn't matter in that view. BUt like i said, in storyline or as her professional career, it seems quite amazing she would not take it more seriously.
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Frank A. Booze
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 12:28am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

I am glad to see that so many people also cannot stand Georgiou. For some reason I thought she wasn’t with Discovery when they went into the future. I pretty much did a Darth Vader “Nooooooooooo!” when I realized I was wrong. She is just so corny. It would have been like having Mirror Kira permanently on DS9.

Get her off the show immediately.
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Jaxon
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 12:14am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Brothers

Might have been wise to postpone this episode a little later in the season.

Here the Enterprise is fresh out of an extended stay on Earth, but the crisis is already "cutting short a liberty".
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Wyatt M.
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 11:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Genesis

Totally a guilty pleasure episode. Always loved it despite it's obvious setbacks.
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Peremensoe
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 10:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Trans and NB characters are expected this season.

I don't recall that Tilly was ever stated to be losing weight, let alone having a "weight loss arc" story. I thought she was trying for a "physical-endurance commendation" - apparently successfully, as she was then accepted for the command training program for which that was supposed to be an assist.

"The show's going for ultra diversity, all the main characters black, gay, latino or Asian, with Tilly the plump, body positive token character."

And that would be the most classically Trek thing possible. Right?
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Trent
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 9:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Janeway fan: "I wonder why they didn't include any trans or genderless crew members in that diversity. That was and is still a very much alive topic, in the US at least."

Trans and non-binary characters are being introduced this season, and I believe one is a Trill.
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Trent
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 9:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

Startrekwatcher said: "Fringe was another hot mess filled with fantasy and unbelievable psuedo-science, emotionally uninvolving romance between the two leads. It was a poor man’s inferior The X/Files."

Yeah, "Fringe" lifts whole chunks from "The X Files" (from plots to countless actors).

But it's interesting to look at the differences, and to compare them to Kurtzman's work in Trek.

Like Trek, "The X Files" is a modern version of "Twilight Zone" (and "Outer Limits"), and together with Trek was the biggest science fiction show of the 1990s. Like Trek, it was highly episodic, though it increasingly dabbled in longer arcs.

Kurtzman, of course, then makes "Fringe" and "Discovery", essentially modern versions of the two biggest 1990s SF shows, "The X Files" and Star Trek".

But where "The X Files" strives to be "realistic" and "naturalistic", "Fringe" is more jokey and ironic. Where "The X Files" strove be vague, frustrate and leave questions unanswered, "Fringe" goes to lengths explaining and spelling out phenomenon. When "The X-Files" heroes are anti-establishment, outsiders and underfunded, "Fringe's" heroes are endorsed by the government and are well funded. Where "Fringe's" heroes can affect and change the world for the better - the unknowable is understandable and that individual choices matter - "The X files'" heroes are ineffectual, constantly losing, impotent, and never granted a full picture, the universe forever unknowable. Where "Fringe" provides closure, "The X-files" would only explain something, whilst simultaneously adding something that further muddied the waters, which led to the show becoming bafflingly ridiculous, conspiracy piled upon conspiracy, though this was part of its philosophical strategy (Mulder fittingly lived in room 42 - "The Answer to the Universe and Everything" in Hitchhiker's Guide - on a street named after a philosopher who believed in a kind of ontological unknowability).

Kurtzman didn't seem to have as much to do with "Fringe" as he does on "Discovery" - it seems more of a JJ Abrams project - but it highlights how his approach to art differs from the things he rips off. It's a safer, glossier, funnier, less risky, more crowd pleasing thing. And parallel universes! He loves his elaborate alternate universes, which he's done in several films, "Discovery", and I'm sure he's responsible for in "Fringe".

There's also a narrative-opaqueness that characterizes his work. You can pick up most old "X-files" or "Trek" episodes and understand them. You enter a season mid-way in "Discovery" or "Fringe", and you're lost. It's a more convoluted thing, often reliant on elaborate mystery boxes (which he picked up from JJ Abrams' "Lost").
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janeway fan
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

I wonder why they didn't include any trans or genderless crew members in that diversity. That was and is still a very much alive topic, in the US at least. All the other types of diversity Trent mentioned are nothing new for Trek.
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Trent
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

Startrekwatcher said: "He plagiarized other people’s work. Just look at StarTrek. into Darkness. He says homage I say wholesale lifting of meyer’s film. "

Kurtzman's first sold script was taken to court by the writers of "The Clonus Horror", who filed a copyright infringement suit. A judge determined that there was indeed a copyright infringement case to be heard, and the studios settled out of court for a SEVEN-FIGURE SUM.

So the guy has been ripping-off other people from the start.
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Trent
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:31pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Tilly's supposed to be chubby. You're supposed to notice her being chubby.

The show's going for ultra diversity, all the main characters black, gay, latino or Asian, with Tilly the plump, body positive token character.

______________

In this episode, the Mirror Empress asked Linus (the big eyed alien) about his eyes, and then took him aside. What was this about? How did Linus help her?
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Cody B
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

@Booming

I guess there’s somewhat of an argument there with Scotty and Kirk but not really. Kirk was never fat. He gained a little weight as he got older but never looked like he wasn’t in reasonably good shape. Scotty almost never left the ship and again any weight gain was as he got older. Tilly on the other hand specifically went through an arc where she was supposed to be losing weight and getting fit yet over two years has ballooned. If we were talking 20 years like the TOS crew from show to the movies I wouldn’t bring it up. Also there’s the fact that a show in the 60s wasn’t treated as serious as shows today. Today a television show is considered “real acting” and even what’s shown and written is supposed to be a little more realistic.
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Cody B
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

@MTF-HA

Not one person was rude or “full of hate”. Not until you that is. Don’t know at all what you’re talking about bullying actresses? No one has done that or will. 🤚 May I please comment that a character on a television show went through a weight loss arc but physically gained weight? Do I have your permission?
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Trent
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Indiscretion

This episode watches as Sisko "rejects" Kassidy Yates, and then resolves to forge a relationship with her. Mirroring this is a similar tale in which Dukat "rejects" his daughter, and then resolves to forge a relationship with her.

The Sisko plot is cute, with Dax and Bashir playing matchmakers, but Avery Brooks performance is odd and downright bad in places. He also seems emotionally and socially immature and/or incompetent throughout; you'd expect a far-future guy, never mind a Federation commander, to be far more adept at social interactions.

The Kira/Dukat plot is dull, and has a number of unnecessarily goofy scenes, like one in which Dukat gets a space-cactus stuck in his butt, Kira howling with laughter. Far better are a number of menacing scenes in which Dukat expresses his belief that "Cardassian rule was good for the Bajorans" and "made them tougher and stronger" and that "Bajorans should thank Cardassians" etc etc. I've just watched a documentary in which a black BBC journalist interviews Richard Spencer, a white supermacist, and the similarity between Spencer's rhetoric and Dukat's was eerie ("The decedents of slaves should be thankful", "You're better off here than in Africa" etc), and also Kira's tight-lipped rage, which echoed the simmering anger of the black journalist in this documentary. DS9 really captured some moments of raw truth.

The episode ends with the revelation that "Dukat wishes to kill his daughter", which is beautifully dark and twisted. Kira talks Dukat out of this - the daughter's immediate acceptance of Dukat is unconvincing - which will lead to an interesting mini-arc in future episodes.
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Kevin Eanes
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S3: Impulse

I found it odd that the deranged Vulcans were able to cooperate with each other, working together to set traps and so forth. If T'Pol's paranoia towards Archer is any example, they should have turned against each other.

Another seeming inconsistency is that in Act One we see several big asteroids unpredictably crashing into each other, yet in the B plot Mayweather and Trip land on a big asteroid just like the crashing ones we already saw and spend hours physically on the asteroid mining it, without any apparent concerns that it might crash into another one, likely killing both of them.

Nevertheless, if one suspends one's disbelief, this is basically a zombie horror movie in Star Trek form, and on that level it works well enough in terms of atmosphere and dramatic tension.
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Skye Francis-maidstone
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:51pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Better than last weeks by default since it had less Captain Marvel in it. I think I gave that a 3 out of 10 so I'd have to nudge up to a 4. Nothing even approaching good though.

Liked:
- Saru (Although he seems a little naive as a leader)
- Detmer. Nice to have a crew remember who acts professionally.
- looks glorious in all its 4k beauty as ever
- semi-enjoying idea of 3100 and all new things
- almost no Burnham

Hated:
- Most of the crew. Did they have any Star Fleet training? I've worked in some crappy jobs in my youth where people were more professional that those idiots. Snark snark snark. It's tiresome. The Expanse crew are more professional and they're from a crappy Ice Hauler.
- Western in the Ice complete with bar room brawl.
- Burnham saving them complete with annoying grinning.

Meh:
- Tilly. Getting old fast now. Not her age either. Please just act normally now rather than flitting into comedy mode.
- Why is 3100 so bleh so far? They have a free reign to do whatever and this is it so far? Hoping for more imagination soon.
- Nhan, maybe she'll be ok? Not looking promising so far.
- Why can everyone identify an 800 or so year old thingy at a glance? Maybe it's as common as a wheel or something I guess.
- How was the ship suddenly fixed so fast? It was a complete wreck then it looked almost perfect. Maybe I missed something though. My eyes started to glaze.

It was a diverting enough 50ish minutes. I was a bit bored though which is rare for DIS since it's so fast paced.
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MTF-HA
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

There is nothing wrong about noticing an actress’s weight. There is something wrong with constantly harping about it, and mocking, bullying and teasing her online, and saying that the fictional universe she is in - a made-up Fantasia that (as so many here delight in pointing out) changes the rules as it goes along-imposes a maximum weight requirement.

See how “but I am just pointing it out” sounds when saying it to the actress’s face. Oh wait. Any circumstances under which you would see her require some minimum of social interaction and decorum. Never mind.

Find something else to criticize.

For so many people here, that should be easy.

It is a pleasant fall evening tonight, in some parts.

Some of the posters on this site is so full of hate. And I don’t just mean hate-watching hate.

Make The Federation HATE Again “!
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Booming
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

What are you saying? that overweight people cannot be in Starfleet?!
Scotty and Jim, have you heard?!

https://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/8400000/Scotty-scotty-8484427-720-530.jpg

https://bmj2k.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/turnabout.jpg
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Sen-Sors
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

Gergiou has always been an awful, ill-fitting character dating back to season 1. She was a tyrant ruling over a brutal empire, a real Queen Bitch of the Galaxy in every sense, but then she takes up a mid-level position in a Starfleet black-ops outfit because "it's so much fun"? Please.
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Trent
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

IMO this was one of “Discovery's” better episodes. The show usually bores me, but this gripped from the start, and reminded me of “Project Daedalus” and “New Eden” in season 2, two episodes not centered on Michael, and which worked well to flesh out the crew.

And so “Far From Home” opens with the Discovery crashing into a kind of corpuscular, fractured planet, whose little fragments are floating about. We get some bad CGI as the ship crashes (director's need to stop wasting money on such crash scenes; they never look right), and then a very heavy-handed, ill-placed and overly emotional speech as Saru informs the crew that they're in the future, alone, lost, but will nevertheless triumph because they're a family, and love each other, and will work together to do what's right and OMG FEDERATION VALUES!

When Discovery tries to do such scenes they're never earned, always cringy and always unconvincing. Stop saying these guys are a “family” who “work together”, and just show us them behaving this way.

In comparison, look at how Janeway handles learning that her ship is lost and disconnected from the Federation. Ensign Kim tells her they're suddenly on the other side of the galaxy, and she shows no emotion, gives no speeches, and doesn't even pause. Instead she immediately begins working the problem and barking orders. It will be an hour and a half later till Janeway gives her first pep talk...

JANEWAY: Did you ever consider allowing the Ocampa to care for themselves?
CARETAKER: They're children.
JANEWAY: Children have to grow up. We're explorers too. Most of the species we've encountered have overcome all kinds of adversity without a Caretaker. It's the challenge of surviving on their own that helps them to evolve. Maybe your children will do better than you think.

...and its point is made tangentially and indirectly. It's not on the nose. It doesn't beat you over the head.

But still, there's lots of good stuff in “Far From Home”. The episode spends the next ten minutes lingering on different officers and different departments. For the first time, Discovery feels like a ship populated by crewmen. Everyone's hustling and bustling and knee deep in their own tasks.

We then get a segment in which Stamets and Culber profess their love – a bit corny and heavy-handed (this show is way too emotional!) – followed by Saru and the Mirror Empress arguing in the briefing room. Saru, hoping to find spare parts, wants to make “first contact” with a nearby settlement, but the Empress wants to go guns blazing and take what they need. Saru makes another heavy-handed appeal to NOT ABANDONING THEIR IDEALS and FEDERATION VALUES! The Empress laughs at his naivety.

What's bizarre is this show's inability to stop insisting upon “the importance of Federation values!!” when the Federation is only 80 or 90 years old when these characters lived within it. And the last time they saw it, the Federation was murdering Klingons, burying WMDs, torturing tardigrades, and trying to kill them all with Section 31 ninjas. What “Federation values!!!” has the crew of the Discovery – a blackops ship once run by a psychopath - ever experienced?

But Saru gets his way, of course, because Saru is our captain. And as a captain he's outstanding, not just as a character, but as a narrative tool: he lends the episode a kind of structure and backbone. IMO he's a better person to centre an episode on, than Michael, who's always flailing about and wildly emoting. Saru's your rock. People revolve around him well.

And you need a rock, because this crew is a mess. Tilly has now been fully Flanderized, all stammering tics and fidgets and snarky dialogue. Such irony and snark is shared by Jett Reno (Tig Notaro), who's always cracking jokes and being sarcastic or rude ("I've already forgotten your name"). Stamets has always been this way, but now Culber is too (“Bring your ass over here so I can kick your ass!”), and of course so is Mirror Empress, who is always dementedly wisecracking and swearing. Everyone's so unprofessional, so “cool” and “postmodern”, and spews so much contemporary phrases, that you need a character like Saru to keep a lid on the crazy.

We next watch as Saru and Tilly hike to a nearby settlement. They share a nice quiet conversation, but then Saru gives another heavy-handed pep talk (“You're wonderful, Tilly!”), which makes Tilly cry. During these scenes, we get cool shots of the Discovery being “strangled” by “parasitic ice”, and great shots of alien settlements jutting from rock faces, and giant excavating machines on the horizon.

Saru and Tilly then enter a Old West Saloon (the swinging doors are a transporter device), where they haggle for spare parts, observe some cool far-future technology, and get into bar fights with some generic bad dudes. Saru gives another FEDERATION VALUES!!! speech, and gets his ass kicked for it. Luckily the Mirror Empress turns up to remind him that FEDERATION VALUES!!! don't apply to the real world. But they do rub off on others, it turns out, for a local guy inspired by Saru ends up sparing the life of a bad guy.

Then it's back to the Discovery we go. Here Jett Reno continues to act snarky (“I'm on so much drugs!”), while an injured Stamets bleeds to death in a Jefferies Tube as he tries to fix some kind of thingy. Why didn't they ask a non-injured engineer or crewman to crawl into the tube and fix the thingy? Probably because they're all high.

The Discovery then tries to take off. Before doing so, Saru gives yet another heavy-handed speech about TOGETHERNESS, FAMILY, and FEDERATION VALUES!

Unfortunately these warm values don't melt parasitic ice, which continues to strangle the ship and so keeps it pinned down. A hokey looking CGI sequence then takes place, the ice “growing” as the ship tries to break free. Luckily the Great Savior of the Universe, Michael Burnham, miraculously arrives just in the nick of time. She rescues everyone and saves the day. This scene rubbed most people the wrong way, but Michael grinning with happiness on the bridge viewscreen worked for me. Mommy's home! The family is together again!

With Michelle Paradise, Discovery now has a new show-runner. IMO the two episodes she's overseen thus far have flowed better than previous episodes, and have centered around pleasantly lower-stakes.

To get better, Discovery needs to keep doing what this episode has done. It needs to dial back the Michael, keep Saru making the command decisions, dilute Georgiou's cartoonishness by pairing her with Saru, and strive to flesh out its ensemble. To further improve, it needs to dial back the jokes and the snarkiness. These are professionals. They shouldn't be speaking this way.

Part of me believes Paradise has diagnosed the show's problems and is slowly tweaking it. But I thought the same thing when "New Eden" aired, and subsequent episodes proved otherwise. It will be interesting to see how the show plays now that Michael's been reunited with the Discovery. My fear is that, since she's been in this time longer than the rest of the crew, she'll be constantly offering info and details and steering their behavior.
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James G
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 6:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Well - I guess it probably was inspired by Die Hard, but it reminded me more of Under Siege. However where Seagal was an electrifying, imposing presence in that sort of role, Patrick Stewart isn't. The fight scenes were just boring.

I liked the basic idea though. The deadly beam passing slowly through the ship. Nice idea. But having it stop at the very last moment was something of a hackneyed old cliche.

I enjoyed the Data small talk gag. Another one to showcase Spiner's comic talents. I didn't really buy Geordie's visor being turned into a magic unconsciousness bomb. Ridiculous.

A pretty forgettable one, I'm afraid.
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Tomalak
Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 6:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

For those with short memories, Tilly looked like this just two seasons ago: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/db/b2/87/dbb2873441ae2843ea16e96ef2e03a48.jpg
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