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Top Hat
Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 6:36am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

I gueeess... that would be a bit imprecise for Data.

Agree that the contractions thing is silly. I'm not sure if it's protest so much as just a feature of the production process... picking out every misspoken contraction would be quite a feat. (I've listened to that one at the end of "Datalore" plenty of times and I'm still not sure I hear "I'm fine," versus a very quick "I am fine").
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:46am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: That Which Survives

Lt. Raddah: "What a bunch of *itches on this ship. If we survive, I'm getting a transfer."
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 8:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Barge of the Dead

The genius of Voyager is how they make the impossible believable.
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 8:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy

Just one more thing....

This episode may win the prize for the worst looking bad-guy aliens.
They looked comparable to some 1960's episodes of Doctor Who.
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Rattrap Maximize!
Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 8:31pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S3: Extinction

This was the worst hour of Star Trek I've ever sat through. No, I'm not exaggerating -- The worst. Zero stars. No, scratch that. -2 stars.

It was uncomfortable watching reasonably talented actors run around like neanderthals in an utterly unnecessary episode. Apparently, designing a virus which can turn an alien into one of your people by literally rewriting their DNA and booting up a copy of your species' brainwaves is so easy a caveman can do it.

"Pretty laughable really, when those same folks have accepted Warp drive, replicators, transporters and sub-space communications as gospel for 50 years."
- Yanks

I don't think this is a sensible comparison. Warp drive and transporters are a founding conceit, without which we wouldn't have Star Trek. I mean, we *might*, but we'd have to sub in cryostasis ships/generation ships and shuttlepods. But I'm getting away from my real point which is:

Warp drive and transporters, while obviously not real, are somewhere on the very fringes of speculative science. We may never have those technologies -- they may, in fact be entirely impossible. *However*, we don't know that yet, and there are actual, real physicists who are entertaining the thoughts. Replicators are just a variation on transporters.

Subspace -- okay. There's no such real hypothetical that I'm aware of. Maybe you could say it's just another name for extra dimensions/bubble universe theory, which is also somewhere on the fringe of speculative science.

Point is, I (and apparently millions of Trek fans) are willing to suspend disbelief when the science seems at least somewhat plausible.

Rewriting DNA, and suddenly undergoing extreme physiological changes (altered bone structure, extreme hair growth within seconds, altered respiratory system [sudden gills],) is simply not plausible. Not even the fringes of biology (to the extent that I'm familiar) has *any* speculative science to support the idea that a virus/pathogen could literally turn you into a different species, write new data (language, memories, personhood etc) to your brain, radically re-engineer your respiratory, circulatory, and/or nervous systems, do so within minutes, AND somehow leave enough of your previous body/identity intact so as to return FULLY back to normal with the simple injection of an antidote?

That's not how biology works. That's not even how biology *could* work. If you make sudden, massive edits to a person's DNA, they get cancer and die.

Things like warp drive and transporters are a plausible --even if just on a fringe level-- conceit that allows Star Trek to exist. The completely asinine 'Extinction', 'Threshold', and 'Genesis' ideas on biology are the stuff of saturday morning cartoons (I should know, see my username).

I like saturday morning cartoons. But Star Trek isn't --and shouldn't!-- be a saturday morning cartoon. Not the live-action, mainline canon series, anyway.

Star Trek should ask sensible, compelling questions. Or even fringe-sensible, but still compelling questions. This asked neither. This is dreck.
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 3:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Rightful Heir

I think that the Klingon stuff had run out of steam by this time-one cannot quite forgive the Birthright story earlier this season and this wasn't much better.
The episode was elevated by the usual star turn from Robert O'Reilly as mad eyes Gowron.

I( think the idea of bringing Kahless back as a clone may have seemed fresh in the nineties but it seems cliched now
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 2:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

@Top Hat

Data may mean “she can use contractions [freely]”. That would still be grammatically correct and convey that he struggles with them.

Out of universe, in interviews Spiner said he’d always hated the contraction bit for Data, so him slipping them in can be seen as a form of peaceful protest. It is pretty dumb, if you’ve taken even beginners’ programming you’d understand that the function for a computer using contractions is really simple.
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Top Hat
Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 2:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

One might suggest that Data gained the ability to use contractions after assimilating Lal's memories, but the rest of the series doesn't especially bear that out.
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Top Hat
Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 1:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

However, Data also says more plainly "She can use contractions. I cannot" in this very episode. Odd to be inconsistent within a single script.

For what it's worth, the series Bible states that Data "usually avoids contractions." That would be fine except that him not using contractions is a plot point several times ("Future Imperfect" is another example).
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 1:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy

I loved this episode! Actually, any of the Doctor centric episodes are a hit with me, and this one had so many hilarious moments in it. Clearly, Seven and the Doctor are two of the best characters in all Star Trek!
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:51am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

Actually this episode fixes the contradiction for us. The line in this episode is that Data hasn't "mastered" contractions yet, which means he can use them, but only on a limited basis unlike Lore and Lal who use them freely.
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 8:48am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

"But to engage in a moment of levity for a moment, not only does Data use contractions in the episode (“I’m” and “you’ve”), but he does so immediately after reminding everyone that he can’t. It’s almost like they did it on purpose to be playful or something."

Joe Menta, I'm inclined to agree with you. I think they did it as a running gag or Easter egg. The same thing happened in the first-season episode "Datalore." In that show, one of the explicit ways to tell the difference between Data and Lore was that Lore used contractions. It was a plot point in the final act. But at the end of the episode, there's Data on the bridge after Lore had been beamed away, and yes, Data uses a contraction. Amusing!

Of course you could always argue that the final scene takes place after a shift to an alternate universe where Data is able to use contractions as liberally as humans do. Haha.
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 8:32am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Parallels


"Did worf return to the correct Enterprise though? At the beginning of the episode it starts out with worf receiving a surprise party but at the end of the episode troi said she knows how he hates surprises and talked riker out of throwing one for worf.

If it was the same universe then shouldn't events unfolded the same?"

DidWorf?, I think it was established that Worf started enterting parallel universes before he even returned to the Enterprise, during his shuttle trip. Therefore, the first time we see him on the Enterprise, having his surprise party that Riker threw despite telling him, "I hate surprise parties!" as a prank, he is already on a "wrong" Enterprise in terms of this story. So at the end, the intimate party he was with Troi is the "correct" universe.

That being said, I'm a firm believer that every continuity error and "canon violation" in STAR TREK shows can be easily dismissed by assuming that the episode or film in question takes place in an alternate universe/timeline. This exact episode, "Parallels," defines this concept beautifully. It's an easy way to counter paltry arguments about STAR TREK continuity errors or altered character development (I.E., Captain Janeway's "bipolar" personality changes). And it's no more hard to believe than warp drive, transporters, or DNA "resequencing."
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 8:30am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

While I understand the reasons for the move to hulu, I don't like what it might do to the show.

I really hope we won't see any sharp turn for the worse in the show's storytelling in season 3. I know the Orville is Seth's pet project and that he has a specific vision for it, but I can't shake the feeling that something is going to go horribly wrong with this move to streaming.

Here's to hope that my gut feeling gets proven wrong.
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:13am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Fight or Flight


Hoshi whole-heartedly agrees with you :-)

As for your question:

"Fight and Flight" is not a beginning of some trend.

The vast majority of Enterprise episodes do not feature such disturbing imagery. However, like every Trek series before it, Enterprise gives us many different types of stories. So if you are sensitive to this kind of thing, there will probably be a few episodes that would trouble you.

Then again, this is nothing new to Enterprise. There are quite a few episodes of TNG that have a similar level of visual nightmare fuel. Picard's torture in "The Chain of Command". The body horror in "Genesis". If you managed to soldier through these difficult parts of TNG and VOY and DS9, you shouldn't have any problem with Enterprise.

By the way:

While ENT gets *darker* in season 3, it does not get any gorier. Think of the Dominion War Arc from DS9, which managed to get quite dark without going out-of-line with the visual imagery.
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 2:29am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Parallels

Did worf return to the correct Enterprise though? At the beginning of the episode it starts out with worf receiving a surprise party but at the end of the episode troi said she knows how he hates surprises and talked riker out of throwing one for worf.

If it was the same universe then shouldn't events unfolded the same?
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Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 1:16am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S4: Living Witness

Somehow I missed this episode in its original airing, and then somehow skipped it when I went through the series on-line. I’m venturing through all the Voyager episodes again, and this is truly one of the best episodes of the series. It’s got creativity in the story-telling, gives the actors some new ways to portray their characters, and confronts genuine problems in the study of history. Robert Picardo is outstanding, and it’s an impressive directorial debut for Tim Russ. It’s a well constructed episode all around.
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Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 9:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Blood Oath

I find this episode superb. The authors show great respect for the Klingon culture, contrary to what those idiots in Discovery have done to Klingons, beneath comptempt.
I also love how Jadzia behaves herself, she had no obligations.
Episodes like this persuade me that DS9 is the best Star Trek series
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Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 7:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

"The Nazi German example isn't a particularly helpful one because it's so extreme that almost no one credibly can use it in any contemporary analogy without engaging in hyperbole (I.e. Godwin's Law) thereby wrecking their credibility with anyone who could potentially be drawn into a different story's orbit (continuing the gravity analogy)"

Good point. Nazi Germany is a very black-and-white analogy, although I used it here because I think it's the allegory that DS9 is at least partially going for. However, I think anyone could easily substitute it with other moral and ethical dilemmas. The abuse of farmworkers, sweatshop workers, conflict minerals...the list goes on.

"I doubt very many people knew they were supporting the "bad guys" even out of fear. This is more revisionist retrospective analysis from the point of view of a story that hadn't been written at the time - at least not the final draft. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts many even most on the bad side didn't even know they were the bad guys."

Gotta disagree with you here. If people back then didn't realize that supporting their country as they herd kids into barracks and separating them from their parents isn't a war crime, I'm not quite sure what it would take to convince them. If people today can't see that it's completely appalling to rip families apart at the border as they come to seek a better life after we Americans fucked up their country so bad that they can't survive; if they can't see that waterboarding prisoners at Abu Ghraib isn't straight-up torture...I don't know what to tell you.

Here's a good article by the NY Times that does a better job articulating what I"m trying to say.
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Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 3:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: The Paradise Syndrome

@Brian S.

Wading through pages of bonfires, wasted pixels, repeated blather of the Nth by the same characters using different handles AND THEN I FIND YOUR GEM.

Thank you for the best funniest comment - in years.
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Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Looking for Par'mach in All the Wrong Places

Kira & O'Brien have zero chemistry, which makes the idea of them 'alone' in that house on Bajor torturous.
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William B
Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 9:54am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Human Error

Also, I think the situation is different than if the roles are reversed, not because of gender but because Seven is basically an emotional child and Chakotay is both emotionally mature (well, is supposed to be) and her superior officer. What Seven is doing is inappropriate and the episode treats it as such but the emotional power imbalance is such that we don't really have to worry that Chakotay is being all that injured. Even if it were the less mature and confident Kim instead of Chakotay in Seven's fantasy it would play creepier, IMO.
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Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 9:12am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Fight or Flight

Hi Chess,

I really like ENT although it's definitely a step (or two!) below reaching the heights TOS, TNG, DS9 reached. I like the idea of a prequel series and what it meant to achieve. I've gone through the series probably 4-5 times with the latter viewings mainly focusing on episodes I liked particularly.

As for how dark the show is, it gets grim/dark/pragmatic in Season 3 which is its best season and one of the best seasons of any Trek franchise. The 1st 2 seasons are hit and miss (mostly miss) but do have a handful of pretty good episodes, but nothing really jumps out to me as being dark. The crew is pretty green, naive in these seasons.

As for this "Fight or Flight" the scene with the dead bodies on hooks was, as I recall, fairly brief and although it is quite gruesome to think further about it, ENT maintains a standard of decency about blood/gore that typifies what Star Trek should be -- so this scene is a bit of an outlier but I didn't think it was unacceptable. I think a few episodes of DSC violated this blood/gore depiction "ethos" (if you will) as did TNG's "Conspiracy" which is better suited for "The X-FIles".
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Joe Menta
Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 7:05am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Offspring

Great episode, thoughtful and moving. But to engage in a moment of levity for a moment, not only does Data use contractions in the episode (“I’m” and “you’ve”), but he does so immediately after reminding everyone that he can’t. It’s almost like they did it on purpose to be playful or something.
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Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 1:55am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Cogenitor

Star Trek Enterprise Policy?

It's okay to make friends and exchange ideas with the people in charge of a society.

Just don't get involved with their permanently enslaved underclass.

Only make FIrst Contact with the people that matter.
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