Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
"Profit and Lace"
Air date: 5/11/1998
Written by Ira Steven Behr & Hans Beimler
Directed by Alexander Siddig
Review by Jamahl Epsicokhan
"Drink Sluggo Cola, and keep your teeth that lovely shade of green." — Ferengi sales pitch
Nutshell: Watch this episode, and then promptly pray to the porcelain god.
DS9 has been anywhere from simply middling to good to great this season, so I guess the series was about due for a loser. Still, I'm not so sure if it was due for a LOSER, which is what we got this week. "Profit and Lace" is a loser with a capital everything.
Considering I've gone the entire season without a strong negative reaction to any DS9 episode, it seems only fitting that the Annual Ferengi Outing™ would finally spark that strong negative reaction. True, we had "The Magnificent Ferengi" earlier this season, which was silly and contrived, but at least it had a some amiable zip and was somewhat entertaining—not to mention the fact that it was an episode that revolved around inoffensive cornball action instead of the grating, tired, clichéd Ferengi "profitics."
I tried, tried, tried not to prejudge this episode. After I saw the preview last week, I mentioned that I felt sick. But I still went into "Profit and Lace" with as open a mind as humanly possible. Unfortunately, I left the episode with an unmistakable desire to vomit.
This duller-than-dirt makeshift excuse for an episode is certainly the worst DS9 of the year, and ranks right alongside fifth season's abysmal "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." in the race for worst DS9 ever made. It's an all-too-obvious example of high concept ("Quark in drag!")—but why on earth anyone would want to see a high-concept premise fitting such a description is completely beyond my comprehension.
I've never bought into the idea that a man dressing in drag is inherently funny. In my not-so-humble opinion, it's not. Sure, I've seen it done time and time again—whether it was Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie, or Robin Williams in Mrs. Doubtfire, or Nathan Lane in The Birdcage—and often the situations or the actors pull it off to make it work, but that certainly wasn't the case here. This episode was intended to be funny because Quark was dressed as a woman. I suppose maybe the premise could've worked if there had been any decent material to accompany the general idea, but there simply wasn't anything fresh in the writing. Heck, there wasn't anything in this story that didn't deserve to be hauled straight off to the nearest landfill. The story plods along from scene to scene, devoid of any shred of inspiration or even decent taste. If you're the type of person who likes Ferengi-induced silliness and stock gender-bending jokes, you might, maybe enjoy parts of this episode. As for me—count me out. I'd be content to play tic-tac-toe for an hour rather than watch this again. Or stick sharp objects into the palms of my hands.
If you care about the plot (I certainly didn't), I'll summarize the "essentials." Grand Nagus Zek, at the request of his true love Ishka, makes it legal for Ferengi women to wear clothes, therefore allowing them to engage in Ferengi business. As a result of this controversial initiative, the Ferengi government promptly votes Zek out of office. Brunt (formerly "Brunt, FCA") is named the successor. Zek and Ishka come to DS9 to ask Quark for help in some clever plan to remove Brunt from office before it's too late. Brunt follows them to DS9 for no other reason than to gloat. (Yeah, there you go—a brand-new leader of an entire world travels all the way from his home planet to stand around and poke fun at Quark, Zek, and everyone else. Uh huh.) Quark, Rom, and Nog convince a single Ferengi financial commissioner named Nilva (Henry Gibson), who has some political pull, to come to the station so that he can be convinced that women do indeed hold an important role in the future of Ferengi society. He's supposed to meet the well-versed, financial expert Ishka, but because Ishka is recovering from a heart attack suffered during a heated argument with Quark, it's all up to Quark to go through with the meeting—dressed in drag, of course.
It's a minimalist plot that is built upon cliché after mind-numbing cliché. And once Quark has been transformed into a woman, oh-so-awful and unrestrained mayhem ensues.
The underlying "story events" are a series of rehashes of rehashes. Zek and Ishka come to the station. Check. Quark expresses his irritation. Check. Zek and Ishka play lovey-dovey. Check. Rom and Quark argue over Whom Mom Likes Best. Check. Ishka and Quark argue about Ferengi sexism. Check. Zek (whose role is growing so old that I don't care if Wallace Shawn—as much as I like the actor—ever returns again) yells and hollers with that goofy voice of his. Check. Rom whines "Mooooogie" again and again. Check. Brunt shows up to scheme against, threaten, and mock Quark. Check, check, check, and just throw the clipboard away, already.
It's like a nightmarish smattering of every Ferengi episode cliché imaginable. And save maybe two lines the entire episode, I didn't so much as crack a smile.
And this is coming from someone who actually somewhat enjoyed "The Magnificent Ferengi."
Just about every scene in "Profit and Lace" was utterly annoying and humorless. Eventually, I was just hoping for a surprise, like perhaps a big explosion caused by a Dominion bomb (maybe as an act of revenge upon all those pesky Ferengi, who had double-crossed and captured their Vorta back in "Magnificent Ferengi"). Lesson of the week: When a viewer starts waiting impatiently for all the story's main characters to get blowed up real good, that's probably a telling sign that the story isn't working. (My preferred version of one scene goes something like this: Quark: "How do I look?" KABOOM! Scene over. The rest of the episode is about finding out how Dominion sabotage has penetrated the station, and why the saboteurs opted to take out a bunch of Ferengi rather than the entire ops staff. How little they all know what the Dominion's hidden strategy is ... that they're really working for me.)
Even the jokes are especially stale this time around. Take, for example, the whole gag of Brunt. I mean Grand Nagus Brunt. Oh, excuse me—I mean Acting Grand Nagus Brunt. I'm not sure how I could forget the "acting" part, seeing as the joke was repeated at least a dozen times in the course of an hour. The dialog was typical and hopelessly shallow, and scene after scene was utterly uninteresting ... until, of course, the "payoff" sequence, which simply turned downright unwatchable instead.
The last scene between Nilva and Quark in Nilva's quarters is so awfully executed that I was embarrassed to even be watching it. It consists of a lot of running around tables and ducking behind drapes, accompanied by a lot of growling, yelling, and other unintelligible noises. Thank you, Mr. Siddig, but I'll pass. I prefer my farce with a trace of humor, not simply unrestrained, anarchic stupidity. Henry Gibson, often an amusing and low-key character actor, is so far out of line as Nilva that the results are jaw-droppingly horrific.
And, by the way, the constant lobe references/entendres haven't been funny for a very long time, assuming they ever were. It's time for a new joke, because watching this one is getting to a point of redundancy comparable to playing that knock-knock joke—"Knock knock." "Who's there?" "Banana." "Banana who?" "Knock Knock?" "Who's there?" "Banana." "Banana who?"—where you repeat the repeating part 50 times or until the other person decides to stop being your friend.
The plot, such as it is, is resolved under a contrivance so transparent and unfunny that I just threw my arms in the air in defeat. Can someone tell me how one official can make the difference of whether Zek is reinstated or not—especially seeing that at least 400 other Ferengi wanted nothing to do with Zek's initiative? Besides, if Nilva is supposed to be a believable microcosm of Ferengi negotiators, it's a wonder that all of Ferengi society hasn't been conned out of everything it owns. I know, I know; I'm not supposed to think about any of that—I should just "enjoy" the comedy—but what's the point of using the Ferengi society as a quasi-allegory of progress if it can't be taken remotely seriously—and if we can't care in the slightest what happens to them? For all I care, their whole planet could be laid to waste by the Dominion next week. I probably wouldn't bat an eye.
I think I have little choice but to go with the dreaded zero-star option. I'm trying for the life of me to think of a redeeming value somewhere in this episode that might be worth even half a star, but I honestly can't think of a single moment worth even lukewarm praise. I thought "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." was the lowest of the low, and would never be approached again. To my dismay, I was wrong. "Profit and Lace" has given it some company.
I feel sincerely sorry for everyone involved in making this episode that it turned out as the terrible travesty that it is. All are certainly talented people who have enjoyed great success on this series. But here, they tried, and they failed. Miserably. I have no desire to look upon the likes of this episode ever again.
Next week: Deep Space "Nell."
Previous episode: Valiant
Next episode: Time's Orphan
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157 comments on this post
Sat, Feb 16, 2008, 6:29pm (UTC -5)
Fri, May 2, 2008, 6:23pm (UTC -5)
But apart from that, you're right.
Wed, Jun 25, 2008, 8:31pm (UTC -5)
(Although, really, it was less than a laugh. It was more than a chuckle, decidedly more than a snicker, but not quite a full-fledged laugh.)
So I have now, for your readers, described the episode's comedic high point and explained in great detail just how it is the apex of this particular 45 minutes. No one who reads this page now need ever sully themselves by watching this episode in its entirety. No need to thank me.
Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 3:34pm (UTC -5)
Sat, Nov 29, 2008, 1:04pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Feb 9, 2009, 7:59am (UTC -5)
Profit and Lace is easily the worst of DS9!
Sun, Mar 15, 2009, 1:06am (UTC -5)
Another underachieving stinkbomb, a la "The Alternative Factor," is TNG's "Masks." "Spock's Brain" (and, yes, Voyager's "Threshold") were not quite the worst episodes made, because they were so ridiculous that they provided an Ed Wood "Plan 9 From Outer Space" kind of entertainment value. At least you got a laugh out of how bad these two were. "Masks," like "The Alternative Factor," (Voyager's "Twisted" falls into this category, too) was not only sub-abominable, it was terminally boring. These episodes were so boring that they denied me the satisfaction of filling myself with hatred over their sheer stupidity - which is why they are worse than "Threshold" and "Spock's Brain."
The three worst Enterprise episodes? I don't know if there is a general consensus here, but I offer "A Night in Sickbay," "Bound" and "Precious Cargo") (with "Sickbay" being the worst) for consideration.
Mon, Apr 13, 2009, 8:26pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Jul 8, 2009, 4:03pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 3:13am (UTC -5)
Thu, Nov 12, 2009, 8:15pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Nov 26, 2009, 2:40am (UTC -5)
Thu, Dec 3, 2009, 5:25pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Jul 1, 2010, 7:14pm (UTC -5)
It isn't surprising that a panel at USC's film school found this to be one of the most provocative and original writing DS9 ever did.
Thu, Jul 1, 2010, 10:54pm (UTC -5)
Obviously that panel does not take that into consideration when it is clearly to support minorites. I doubt many of them have seen Trek or even interested in watching the whole series.
As for "serial character drama," you will find yourself in a minority. Those that are comfortable with their gender don't necessarily forms of media which do, as much as mainstream media sources would make you think.
I'm being mean and harsh on you, but I am just saying supporting minorites in real life while establishing a great FICITONAL story does not always mix.
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 9:48pm (UTC -5)
"Profit and Lace", on the other hand, is so badly written, acted, directed, and even scored that I couldn't even laugh at how bad it was, all I could think was "How can they turn out masterpieces like 'Rocks and Shoals' and 'In the Pale Moonlight' and absoloute garbage like this in the same season?'
Worst of all, it was horribly sexist. It basically said "in order to prove that women are as intelligent as men are, we need a MAN to DRESS UP AS A WOMAN and show his intelligence". Most Ferengi episodes are sexist, but this one outdid all the others in that regard. I can't imagine any episode of Trek being worse than this.
I have to second Michael's comment, though. The shots of the station had never looked so beautiful before.
P.S. to Georgia: I am very comfortable with my gender and my bisexuality, thank you very much.
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 11:31am (UTC -5)
I love this episode and think everyone put in a top performance. I'm a DS9 addict (I watch it through every 6 months or so) and this will always be close to my favourite episode :)
Fri, Aug 20, 2010, 12:43am (UTC -5)
Tue, Jan 25, 2011, 11:40am (UTC -5)
A lot of the comedy just doesn't work, and a lot of it is overdone. Even if "acting grand nagus brunt" was funny, did they need to say it 7 or 8 times in the same episode? That's overkill, and it wasn't funny to begin with.
Quark in drag is just awful. What do you expect the actors to do?
Wed, Feb 16, 2011, 7:38am (UTC -5)
Tue, Mar 29, 2011, 2:38am (UTC -5)
Mon, Apr 25, 2011, 2:02am (UTC -5)
TOS - Spock's Brain (which, yes, does benefit slightly from becoming an unintentional comedy), And The Children Shall Lead, The Way To Eden
TNG - Really, the entire first season would be a good choice here. But, I'll go with Code of Honor (I'm not sure if that's the right title. It's the one where they go to the planet where everyone is black and Tasha fights some girl to the death with a ridiculous poisonous glove thing), The Naked Now (which, again, benefits from lots of unintentional comedy) and Sub Rosa.
DS9 - This one, Let He Who is Without Sin and The Emperor's New Cloak. I actually think New Cloak is the worst of the lot on DS9. I've never cared for the mirror universe, and when you throw Zek in the mix... Ugh, deep hurting.
Voyager - Everything in season two, with the obvious choice for the worst episode being Threshold and my close runner up being Twisted. That episode where Chakotay takes over people's brains from season one is also a real loser.
Enterprise - Well, A Night In Sick Bay definitely takes the cake there. But, again, that one kept me laughing for all the wrong reasons. Precious Cargo and Bound are also exceptionally terrible. But, I think Marauders (the one where they fight a bunch of Klingons on some mining colony, but not really) is also a good candidate for the worst of the lot.
That's my two cents, anyway.
Wed, Sep 7, 2011, 7:46pm (UTC -5)
It's also never good when an episode makes you think of plot holes that have gone unnoticed for six seasons. Are there no other Ferengi females on DS9? I assume not, since A) we've never seen any, and B) Quark never suggested bringing one of them in to play the part. So all the Ferengi bartenders are single guys, and depend entirely on the holosuites for their female companionship? Come on, I know they're on the frontier here, but even the Old West had mail-order brides, which would seem to fit right into Ferengi society.
Also, how does Brunt go from being the kind of minor functionary who gets sent to the frontier to hassle bartenders over regulations, to being elected (Acting) Grand Nagus? Did the show even try to explain that?
Tue, Oct 4, 2011, 8:49pm (UTC -5)
This episode wasn't nearly as horrid as everybody seems to want to claim. I found myself laughing throughout most of the episode.
Sat, Oct 22, 2011, 1:44pm (UTC -5)
As someone who is transgendered, I hated everything about this episode. A couple of times my stomach tightened up so much I really did wonder if I was going to be physically sick. From the unbearable opening scene, where Quark's sexual harassment made me wish for Aluura to put a knife in his eye, to the "lumbering" scene where Quark is being judged on his ability to pass, to the scene where "Lumba" is being chased around the room and trying to interpose physical objects to keep from being sexually assaulted -- it was all just plain awful.
The whole thing was done from the standpoint of a smirking male gaze, specifically directed at a heterosexual male audience and trying to play on their discomfort with freaks like me, so the idea that this was some sort of positive statement bringing an outsider perspective to the Trek audience is simply obscene.
If USC likes this episode, they can keep it.
Tue, Nov 22, 2011, 9:54am (UTC -5)
Fri, Dec 2, 2011, 12:01am (UTC -5)
Fri, Apr 27, 2012, 12:37pm (UTC -5)
These inane Ferengi episodes do nothing but a disservice to the characters of Quark, Rom, and especially Nog. Not to mention the actors who play them.
Sun, Apr 29, 2012, 10:09pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Oct 12, 2012, 1:50am (UTC -5)
Irony 2: (I just finished watching this for the 1st time - it was the only one I inadvertantly missed back in the 90s.) The last unseen episode I will ever watch of DS9, arguably the most character-driven and thought provoking Trek (and also my favourite), is this piece of insipid and offensive trash.
Tue, Jan 8, 2013, 6:23pm (UTC -5)
I said I wouldn't do it, but I'm going to skip this one. Not a fan of men-in-drag movies. I kind of like the Ferengi episodes but the drag is going to drag it down.
Thanks for warning me off.
Wed, Jan 30, 2013, 1:29am (UTC -5)
For one, this season has to be the highest death count in any Star Trek series. Not to mention, the previous episode, "Valiant," basically ended with a starship full of kids being blown up.
Ferengi episode aren't particularly outstanding or good, but in my opinion, zero stars is a bit harsh. I'd rate it as 2 stars at least. I mean, we did just witness Ferengi culture shift from a patriarchal society that treated women as slaves to one that's at least starting to acknowledge women as living beings.
Mon, May 27, 2013, 1:37am (UTC -5)
Wed, May 29, 2013, 4:37pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Jul 9, 2013, 2:42pm (UTC -5)
Sat, Aug 3, 2013, 4:08pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Aug 5, 2013, 1:06pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Aug 6, 2013, 4:00am (UTC -5)
Tue, Aug 6, 2013, 8:30am (UTC -5)
But about this episode ...
DS9 is my favorite Star Trek series because it is the most ambitious and layered. I'm not saying everyone should want those qualities in a Trek series, but I do and I did. So DS9 is at the top of my list.
That said, it's only SLIGHTLY at the top of the list ahead of TNG. TNG had three seasons that were really bad (1, 2 and 7) while DS9 *only* had two episodes of Ferengi drivel a year that were really bad. When I rewatch DS9, I won't watch any Ferengi episode other than "Little Green Men" or "The Magnificent Ferengi". There are a couple others that are passable ("Business as Usual"). But "Profit and Lace" and "Ferengi Love Songs" are just deplorable episodes and the Trek writers should be ashamed. As for a series-by-series list of the worst episodes:
TOS: 'And the Children Shall Lead' is just so boring and annoying. 'Spock's Brain' and 'The Way to Eden' are at least interesting in a couple spots and laughable in others. 'The Alternative Factor' is actually a good call for an entry in the really bad camp. It's often forgotten because it's in the middle of a lot of good episodes. 'The Apple' is pretty awful, too.
TNG: 'Sub Rosa' is amazingly bad, maybe the worst in all of Trek, IMHO. Honorable mentions to 'Code of Honor', 'Shades of Gray' and several Troi-centered episodes. Marina Sirtis is, hands down, the worst regular actor in Trek history.
DS9: 'Ferengi Love Songs' and 'Profit and Lace' are awful -- and 'Take Me Out to the Holosuite' was almost as bad. I'd rather watch 'Let He Who is Without Sin ... ", honestly.
VOY: 'Threshold' is ridiculous, but I've never understood why 'Spirit Folk' isn't considered worse. It gets my vote.
ENT: 'A Night in Sickbay', because it makes Archer -- whom the creators spent four seasons building up -- look like a petulant child.
I'd go with 'Sub Rosa' as the worst episode in the history of Trek with 'A Night in Sickbay' as a distant second.
Sat, Nov 2, 2013, 5:45pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Dec 19, 2013, 1:33am (UTC -5)
Compared to the absurdly annoying last episode this one became just bad, not fully atrocious as it could have felt otherwise. But what to say about an emperor deposition that is reverted because one guy agrees to support it?
My god, quality of the second half of 6th season has been falling abruptly.
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 10:34am (UTC -5)
As far as this episode being original, it's not even remotely orginal. It is stale, stale, stale. Dressing men in women's clothes for a gag is an old comedy standby. When Quark was being made to look female, I expected him to say "I'm not going to dress like a girl, and you can't make me, you can't make me, you can't make me," just like that episode of Gilligan's Island. It's a cheap gag that doesn't really address women's issues at all. Rolling your eyes at this episode is not a sign of being insecure with your own sexuality, quite the opposite. The people who yuk it up over a man in women's clothes tend to be ones who are uncomfortable with their sexuality.
Why did they need a woman at all? The Ferengi might have been willing to listen to an argument that allowing women to wear clothes and earn profit is good for business, but as they are so sexist, they would have been more likely to hear that message from Zek than from a female Ferengi. The idea that women don't have to be, in effect, barefoot and in the kitchen, isn't exactly a fresh idea. It might have been fresh in the 90's... and by that I mean the 1890's.
And what happened to Quark's ears? Did they have to cut down his ears to make his lobes look female? If so, that's a pretty radical surgery. Putting on false lobes to make a female look like a male is easy, removing tissue is a different matter.
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 2:28pm (UTC -5)
But, I almost always avoid Ferengi episodes. I find, that way, I enjoy the series more.
There are a few decent Ferengi episodes in there -- I mostly liked "The Magnificent Ferengi", "Little Green Men", "Business as Usual" and "Who Mourns for Morn?" (not a Ferengi episode except that it stars Quark). But, generally, the characterization of every Ferengi but Quark and (later in the series) Nog is just awful. The writers rely too much on aspects of Ferengi that aren't remotely funny.
Don't get me wrong. Quark can be a good character, especially when he's paired with Odo or when he's offering a unique perspective (like in "The Jem Hadar"). But an episode featuring a lot of Quark where another Ferengi gets a lot of lines almost always sucked.
But you could usually figure that one or two episodes a season would 1) feature Quark and the Ferengi and 2) really stink.
Fri, Feb 7, 2014, 6:49pm (UTC -5)
Anything that precedes or follows that is an absolute nightmare of sexism. From the sexual harassment victim who LIKES IT, then the idea that women's personalities are defined by their 'hormones" (since Quark changes 100% as soon as he's been "transformed"), not mentioning the ridiculous plothole of "traditional female ferengi clothing". Everything is pathetic and transphobic / gay-baiting drivel (OMG! That's so funny that Rom says he wanted a ring from a man! Because he's a man!!! Get it??)
Thu, Apr 3, 2014, 2:44am (UTC -5)
I liked how everyone hated Slug-O-Cola.
Fri, Apr 4, 2014, 12:35pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Apr 24, 2014, 6:03pm (UTC -5)
Once the cross dressing began it became unintentionally creepy, if Armin Shimerman chose to "tone down" his performance imagine what the original script looked like! I bet a lot of people regret this. Ultimately the episode failed because the comedy was not strong enough and the jokes were not funny, and not even due to the dubious lack of "political correctness" but they just were not executed well and had all been done better/earlier....
Thu, May 8, 2014, 7:02pm (UTC -5)
*silence, wind rustling leaves*
*stares blankly off into the distance*
*current status seems to indicate Vylora is broken*
Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 1:22am (UTC -5)
Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 11:36pm (UTC -5)
Sisko: "A Dominion invasion of Ferenginar?"
Rom: "Think of the repercussions for the Alpha Quadrant!"
Worf:"I can not think of any."
That made me laugh so hard. Oh, don't tease me DS9. That would be the best thing to happen to this show. Just lay waste to the entire planet, Death Star style.
Sun, Jul 27, 2014, 4:52am (UTC -5)
Someone call the people who made that doomsday machine Kirk ran into back in TOS, or Species 8472 (they blew up a Borg planet once) ;)
Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 1:22pm (UTC -5)
No discussion necessary.
Tue, Sep 16, 2014, 9:31am (UTC -5)
Skip ahead a few decades, and this was a whole new level of awful. I'm embarrassed for everyone even remotely associated with that episode.
Zero stars indeed.
Tue, Sep 16, 2014, 7:08pm (UTC -5)
Painfully unfunny jokes abound in this implausible P.O.S. episode. I've read that Armin Shimerman had huge problems with this script and refused to do some of what they had asked of him. I shudder to think how this could be any worse.
I hated how Quark became a tired female cliche once Bashir was done with him. Aren't we past these types of cinematic "farces"? This painting of women/transgendered people in a bad light is SO pigheaded. Why was Star Trek sending such boneheaded messages this late in the game?
Couple that with some of the lamest Ferengi dialogue ever, a saccharine soundtrack and some very lackluster acting performances and what do you get?
A very stinky turd.
Tue, Sep 16, 2014, 7:11pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Oct 1, 2014, 2:09pm (UTC -5)
As someone who has been into Trek since it started here in the UK back in 1969, Trek has had its ups and downs, for me "The Omega Glory" (TOS) was a pile of crap, Star Trek: Into Darkness was crap, but "Profit and Lace" was actually making a social point - that you all missed!!
Wed, Oct 1, 2014, 2:50pm (UTC -5)
"Profit and Lace" was actually making a social point - that you all missed!!
And what point was that?
I must also let you know that most people have a very wide berth when it comes to what is funny: I can laugh at 3 Stooges, Frasier, Woody Allen, Cheech and Chong, Oscar Levant, Sarah Silverman, Marx Brothers, Dave Chapelle etc etc . . . yet for some reason, I still don't find this amusing. Stale and trite, yes, but funny? Nope.
The thing about humor and what is personally funny is it's something that can't be quantified. Just because YOU find it hilarious doesn't mean anyone else has to, or that anyone else should (or would).
Wed, Oct 1, 2014, 3:23pm (UTC -5)
I ACTUALLY think it was clever idea. It's just that...
1) Quark may be a shade of grey on this show, but he's still one of the good guys and watching him sexually harass his employee was pretty awful.
2) The fact that Doctor Bashir performs sex change surgery so that they can trick a Ferengi corporate kingpin is just.... insane?
3) The stereotypical portrayal of women might have worked better in the 70s Trek alongside such masterpieces as "Turnabout Intruder".
4) But no, what REALLY torpedoes the hell out of the episode is that at the end, the employee Quark sexually harassed WANTS to screw around with him. So the lesson that Ian touts is actually tossed out the airlock, because the new sensitive Quark doesn't get a chance to fix his mistake, the old jerk Quark wins.
It did have a few cute moments. I personally loled at the scene where Rom was teaching him how to walk... but I like Rom/Leeta and their weird relationship... I know the majority of fans don't. And Worf's line about how a Dominion invasion of Ferenginar would have no repercussions for the Alpha Quadrant was one of Michael Dorn's finest one liners (shame it was in THIS episode). And the fight between Quark and his mother was decent character development for that relationship. But those few shining spots are not enough to recommend it.
Tue, Oct 14, 2014, 1:09am (UTC -5)
See, I like the *idea* of the Ferenginar arc. It's KIND OF well done, even though it only seems to involve six or seven individuals. The problem is that most of the Ferengi characters are annoying, and lots of their scenes are cartoonish and cliched.
The first couple of acts aren't unwatchable, but after Ishka has her stroke the episode takes a nosedive into concrete. This is some of the most unfunny, laborious TV I've ever seen.
Everything else has already been said, but I just want to echo everyone else.
This is a legit zero star episode. That it doesn't get REALLY bad until 20 minutes in is the only thing that keeps this episode from being the absolute worst DS9 has to offer (for the record, I give "Move Along Home" that distinction).
Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 8:39pm (UTC -5)
I admit, I couldn't bring myself to watch more than five minutes of it. If we're lucky, this episode in the DS9 cannon will spontaneously blink out of existence.
Tue, Nov 18, 2014, 2:19pm (UTC -5)
Huh, so does 7 years of Voyager count in all this?
I thought this episode should have been Negative 5 stars. The 6 minute rape scene near the end was atrocious.
Wed, Jan 7, 2015, 8:04am (UTC -5)
Wed, Jan 7, 2015, 11:50pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Mar 10, 2015, 1:52pm (UTC -5)
I think there was one funny part to the whole episode, and luckily it happens in the first 4 minutes. Rom says something like imagine the rammifications if Ferenganar falls to the Dominion and Worf says I cannot think of one. LOL, but otherwise yeah this is a terrible episode.
You have almost everything you'd never want all rolled into one!
Character assassination: What the hell is up with Quark at the start of this episode?? I know he's a small-time criminal but here he's way WAY out of line with that Dabo girl, even for him. It takes all the wonderful character building with Quark they've done over the course of 6 years and craps all over it.
Catchphrase Overkill: How many times did they say "ACTING Grand Nagus!" in this?? It wasn't funny the first time let alone the next 50.
Lumba "herself": Poor Armin Shimmerman, I hope they paid him OT throughout the taping of this one :(
Yet STILL it isn't as bad as TNG's Mrs. Troi and the mudbath planet. That is probably impossible to top. Er, bottom.
Wed, Mar 18, 2015, 12:48pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:54am (UTC -5)
Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 11:35am (UTC -5)
Do you find the character assassination of Worf in "Without Sin" more offensive than the sexism in "Lace"?
Personally having Worf commit an act of terrorism against the Federation is worse for me, but only by a hair.
Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:40pm (UTC -5)
I'll just leave these here.
Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 2:30pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Jun 17, 2015, 10:39am (UTC -5)
Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:57am (UTC -5)
....and yet I still find it less annoying than "Move Along Home".
Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 3:02am (UTC -5)
Sat, Aug 1, 2015, 8:48am (UTC -5)
Nancy and others covered the main problems with this. I think the redeeming points for this episode are:
1) Lumba kisses a man and there's no revulsion etc around it. The romance is also not something Quark-Lumba regrests or is homophobic about. (Although the rape-as-love trope continues in both storylines.)
2) Quark arguing the case for females to earn profit (though again, with very stupid logic that should have been self-evident on Day 2 of Ferenginar, but still)
3) Odo-Quark hug was kind of fun to watch, even though Quark is basically hyper-stereotyping 'female emotions' etc.
4) While the transgender scenes are FAR from what we could easily expect from Trek (Consider Dax as a transgender character for instance), it's still 'something' to have that on screen (and I felt the review's absolute hatred for watching this - while tolerating other similarly bad stories might have been fed by this :p)
I didn't like Worf's line or any of those Ferengi-hating lines that randomly show up as a normal thing, as if it's 'funny' to be dismissive and derogatory of an entire race. The best counter-scene to this is in one of the early episodes of one of the seasons when Quark tells Sisko that humans only hate on Ferengi's because they remind them of what humans used to care about, and yet Ferengis NEVER DID all the terrible things humans did, historically.
The amount of hatred directed at Ferengis is pretty nauseating. You won't see that kind of dismissive hatred directed at the tall, white, changelings now, would you? :p
Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 3:12pm (UTC -5)
& this episode deserves a star from all the haters who like "arc" & "serialised" shows because it plays into the Ferengis final evolution at the end of the series
Fri, Oct 9, 2015, 12:07am (UTC -5)
Like the (barely extant) plays of Menander, though, there is a massive blindspot, and that is the willingness to overlook sexual harrassment/assault. The opening scene with Quark was very painful to watch. I kept thinking, "have the writers learned nothing from their last outing all the way back in Season One?" And I hoped that by the end of the episode, we'd see that they had--only to watch them undermine it all by having the dabo girl want to perform Oomox for Quark.
There are plays in both Euripides and Shakespeare that appear to confirm the prejudices of their audiences while actually undermining them. Menander could get away with this in the fourth century BCE. Shakespeare could get away with this in the 16th century CE. But the writers of Deep Space 9 in the twentieth century should have known better. The problem is that instead of presenting something with traditional Ferengi chauvinistic values and undermining them, the episode appears to undermine the new Ferengi value of equality.
I think that the writers would counter that they were trying to say that an empathetic male is one who is also truly happier. Consent is not only required for sex to be non-criminal, it's also sexy. That's why Quark gets his "happy ending." And in a way, it also mirrors the last episode, "Valiant." In that episode, the only member of the regular Red Squad cadets who had the wisest attitude--a yearning for home--survived. Put militarism before your humanity, the writers are saying, and you've given up what makes you actually alive. It's not subtle, but the point is a good one.
As for the episode itself, Quark would have been out of character to refuse Oomox once offered freely--but there's no way his employee would have freely offered that after being harassed. The closing scene as written should have never made it onto the printed page, let alone the screen.
Sun, Dec 27, 2015, 4:37pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 10:23am (UTC -5)
Sat, Feb 6, 2016, 2:17pm (UTC -5)
And that's the main problem I have with this episode - it's just not funny. It's cliched, boorish, and exploitative. And all in an episode that's supposed to be championing women's rights. Horrifying. 1 star.
Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 9:34am (UTC -5)
Memory Alpha has stated that Siddig and the writers had a different idea of how to interpret the Quark-Ishka conflict, culminating in her heart attack -- Behr and Beimler wrote it as farce, and Siddig directed it as domestic melodrama, a demonstration of how we hurt the ones closest to us. This makes the scene particularly painful and bizarre -- it is played as if it were genuinely serious, and there is a sort of raw, unbearable anger in the performances, in the middle of a ridiculous episode. The episode's tone is all over the place, but this scene is one which particularly stands out. The jokes are really laboured throughout.
I am not entirely sure what is stopping me from giving this 0 stars...but I still feel like I want to reserve that. I'm not sure if any episode truly gets 0 from me, which maybe is a sign that I m simply not calibrating my scale well enough. Anyway, 0.5 stars, alas.
Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 10:11am (UTC -5)
Well, it did have this exchange - possibly the ONLY "good" thing about it....
SISKO: A Dominion invasion of Ferenginar?
ROM: Think of the terrible repercussions to the Alpha Quadrant.
WORF: I cannot think of any.
Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 6:57pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Feb 22, 2016, 11:21am (UTC -5)
As it stands, it seems like it's going to take a lot longer than a day for Ishka to ever recover from what happens between her and Quark, and you end up really hating Quark when Quark, for his part, pulls off a lot for the sake of female's rights.
Half good, half-headbanging terrible episode.
Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 1:51pm (UTC -5)
That being said Siddig should have known better than to allow his actors to do what they did here. It wasn't that the tone was uneven or the style incoherent - it's that the actors were bad. They were straight-up bad. The thing about high comedy or farce is that it's considered in the industry to be far harder to do than serious drama or light comedy. Many directors will admit they simply cannot do it competently. This was not something for a new director to be given. That is also on the exec producers. This script, as unredeemable as it was, could have been twisted around by a clever director in such a way as to say something through all the mess. I'll give a few examples of how scene direction could have taken gruesome scenes and made them interesting in some way:
1) Instead of Quark directly harassing Aluura the scene could have been shot in such a way that the male staff was sitting nearby watching, with Quark trying to impress them. Or add in a line about a liquidator auditing him and have the liquidator sitting nearby to ensure that Quark is sufficiently oppressive to his staff. Quark could then be seen to be harassing Aluura somewhat under duress, even though he does do it. It would still be bad of him, but more complicated than him merely being a slime. The final scene could then pay off by him realizing he never should have done it for any reason, and to hell with Ferengi custom.
2) Quark and Ishka yelling at each other was both terribly acted (the actors were yelling but believing little of it) and comically dead. It's hard for something to be funny when it's aurally abrasive and a repetition of what we've seen many times before. The lines are garbage, and Siddig seemed to be cornered in that it HAD to end with a heart attack, which couldn't occur without histrionics before it. Or could it? Why not add just one line earlier indicating Ishka's health isn't what it used to be, and then in this scene have them teasing each other much more amicably than this, with Ishka getting herself worked up (rather than having a screaming match with Quark) and having a more subtle heart attack. As we here on planet Earth know, heart attacks frequently don't come in the form of a person dropping dead on the spot. Much more reasonable would have been a realization that she had chest pain and weakness, and Quark perhaps making a joke about her being overly dramatic before realizing what was happening. She still would have been unable to complete her task but at least we would feel badly for her (which we don't in the episode, which is a travesty). The scene could have been a touching family one rather than high farce, and it actually would have been much funnier with them 'amicably' sparring rather than screaming. In fact, the most funny would be them realizing they've said these things many times before, as if it was a ritual they could both appreciate on some level, which could then play like a family script that they've come to sort of like in an annoying kind of way.
3) The scene with Quark and Nilva was abominable, and this one was completely Siddig's fault. Physical comedy was the wrong route here. But if it had to be physical comedy then at the very least it could have been something that would lead to the 'reveal' that Quark's surgery was 'complete'. For instance, if Nilva was trying to undress Lumba and for every piece of clothing or jewelry he takes off Lumba manages to put another one back on we could have a Marx Brothers type of chicanery. We could be led to think that "oh, if he sees Quark naked the jig will be up" only to then learn later that Quark was actually just being afraid in general rather than concerned about the plan being busted.
4) The final scene should have been directed in such a way that Aluura said the things she said out of fear. Same lines, different direction. When she insists she was looking forward to the oo-mox the idea should be that she thinks what Quark is saying is a trick to test her and that she'd better prove to him she's serious about complying. This would give us much more of a release of tension when we see him realize this and assure her for real that he'll never ask her to do that again. We might have even ended up feeling good about the theme this way.
As it is this is the worst episode of Trek ever, bar none. I like The Alternative Factor, am amused by Spock's Brain, don't hate Let He Who Is Without Sin as much as many people do, and Threshold...well, it's the *dumbest* Trek episode ever but it doesn't make my skin crawl and cause me to cringe with embarrassment repeatedly. Maybe just once or twice.
I sort of want to give Profit and Lace half a star just for the Hupyrian standoff. I actually laughed out loud at that.
Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:45am (UTC -5)
What gets me is that I think there *could* have been a good episode to come out of some of the ideas here. Polish but otherwise keep the opening bits - they're not stellar stuff, but they get the job done. But instead of the farcical "lets give quark a sex change!" thing - and people keep saying it's "quark in drag," but no, quark actually had a sex change. And because reasons, this made quark adopt a plethora of stereotypical "female" traits, including being both ditzy and vain. Which, in the middle of a plot that is nominally against sexism, just boggles the mind.
So, no. Scrap that aspect entirely, and instead, do a call-back to an episode the writers seem to have forgotten - track down what happened to Pel, from Rules of Acquisition. Quark, Rom, and Zek all should've remembered this character, ffs. When needing a replacement female Ferengi with business sense to stand in for Ishka, she should've come to mind long before "lets give quark a sex-change!"
And that could've made an much more interesting episode. You've got the Pel-Quark relationship, which I would've liked to see explored more back when she originally appeared - and a romantic interest seems a much better avenue for actually getting under Quark's skin and changing his views than his mother, who he's well-practiced at dismissing.
You could even adapt some of the "teaching quark to female" scenes to Pel. She had, likely for most of her life, been pretending to be male, but it would make sense if zek and quark wanted her to present herself in a more conventionally feminine manner, since her being female is as much the point as her having good business sense. And that, for me, would be a better scene - Pel, who actually is female, being coached by a room full of men on how to act more feminine, resisting and resenting the whole thing. Them urging her to project the stereotype that she so clearly doesn't represent, and her reluctantly going along because, after all, what's at stake is nothing short of a revolutionary shift in women's rights on ferenginar.
It's still wouldn't be for everybody - some people just really, *really* hate the Ferengi - but it could've been a good episode that said something without undermining itself at every turn, where quark actually had a chance of learning something without it being cliche and paper-thin. It could've been one of the better Ferengi-centric episodes, and instead, it was the utter rock-bottom.
Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 11:29am (UTC -5)
This is actually the biggest problem with the episode. Remove that and you have a misogynist pig from a misogynist society pretending to be a girl. So it makes sense that it'd be so stereotypical.
I'm not saying it saves the episode or anything... but if Bashir didn't just perform gender surgery on Quark for funsies and Quark was pretending to be a girl the whole thing takes on a higher level of farce and leaves the offensive land that it occupies now.
Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 2:11pm (UTC -5)
I've continued thinking about the idea of bringing back Pel, and the more I do, the more I start to lament what I think was a missed opportunity. There are so many possibilities there.
For one, when Pel was first introduced, we knew nothing of Quark's family - we wouldn't meet his Moogie or learn of her unconventional (for ferengi) clothes-wearing, profit-making ways. Hell, in-story, *Quark* didn't even know, at least about the profit part (though it seemed ambiguous to me whether she had always had a thing for wearing clothes, if not in the defiant all-the-time way she did by the time we were introduced to her.)
This extra information would add something for the Pel character - she, in effect, has a lot in common with Ishka. The main differences - the seeming lack of interest in family - is something she instead has in common with Quark. This creates so many opportunities for interesting interactions involving the three. And, of course, Dax would certainly have more to say on the subject as well, given a chance.
Rather than being the final nail in the ever-divisive, hit-or-miss Ferengi -centric episodes, it could've been the seed for a final mini-arc that allowed Quark the opportunity to actually change and grow a bit before the end of the series.
Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 9:43am (UTC -5)
As much as I hate [slur removed by Jammer] I'll tolerate a lot in sci fi I wouldn't in RL but this takes the cake for dogshit.
Voyager's threshold at least had an interesting first ten minutes.
Fuck anybody who likes this episode.
Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 11:09am (UTC -5)
May I ask what you could possibly hate about people you've never met? This feels like an awful lot of hate for a short post.
I mean, I feel angry after watching this episode too... but this feels a bit extreme!
And lots of good things happened in Threshold, at least until lizard sex....
Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 10:49pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 4:27am (UTC -5)
That dabo-chick Alura was damn hot! Those tits and that smile.... mmmyummy a line from "Alien Resurrection" comes to mind: "Severely Fuckable" :) I dont blame Quark for salivating over her, I would too. Ofc, I would find a more subtle approach to get her in my bed, but... some chicks like directness, and she proved in the end that she likes it.
Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 4:31am (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 9:25am (UTC -5)
I sometimes feel glimmers of what it must be like to run this site, and all the care Jammer has put into it. I don't know how exactly what his experience is of reading all the various kinds of comments people leave, but I know in his place when reading the comment section my finger would be twitching over the delete button at times.
Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 9:53am (UTC -5)
(Hopes the Discovery writers are reading.)
Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 11:31am (UTC -5)
That said, there's always the exception who acts like an asshole, but what ya gonna do.
Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 12:20pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 2:59am (UTC -5)
Sounds good to me, I love to fight! :) Just make Alura the prize for the winner, and I'm game hehe.
Fri, Mar 24, 2017, 11:35am (UTC -5)
Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 3:47am (UTC -5)
Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 7:15pm (UTC -5)
BUT the absolute worst thing about the episode which everyone seems to be glossing over but a few people is the rape scene. For God's sake, that ferengi was chasing quark around trying to FORCE HIMSELF ON HER (him? Anyway...). If a human woman was running away from a human man who was trying to do that, would this still be funny? Not to mention the bartender situation...
As for the "message" of the episode, the whole quark learning what it was like to be a woman and to treat woman right thing, I would like to point out that Boy Meets World did it better, and STILL managed not to be so disgustingly sexist AND managed to hold on to the seriousness of the sexual assault situation.
0 stars. Less than 0 stars.
Tue, Jul 18, 2017, 6:49am (UTC -5)
Way too harsh - 3 stars at least for Quark giving one of his employees a book called "Oomax for fun and profit"
Fri, Aug 18, 2017, 11:46pm (UTC -5)
Sat, Aug 19, 2017, 11:59am (UTC -5)
Anyone who rates this as zero stars doesn't have any sense of humor whatsoever.
Sat, Sep 16, 2017, 2:26pm (UTC -5)
If not, why are the earrings necessary here?
Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 1:08pm (UTC -5)
But this was a throwback to some of the more uncomfortable TOS and even early TNG episodes, with the cringe-worthy sexism. I realize it's all done in the name of Ferengi female liberation, but the episode does it so badly, the writing is so awful, and ultimately the whole thing comes off as wrongheaded I barely could stomach the 50 minutes of blech. This isn't just one of the worst Season 6 episodes, it's one of the worst DS9 episodes, and in the top ten bad Star Trek episodes.
If they wanted to show Ferengi society becoming more liberated, even in a humorous way (which, let's face it, the Ferengi episodes are), surely they could have found a better vehicle than this.
Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 2:06pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 3:51pm (UTC -5)
Sure, it's easy to pick from the worst of the lot and say seasons should be shorter, but for every "Profit and Lace", there's at least a handful of fluff episodes like "In The Cards" or "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" that can really make a fun hour out of a show that isn't progressing the story. I do generally like the way TV is heading like Jammer said, but I think we should appreciate the cost of this new production direction.
Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 5:13pm (UTC -5)
I don't know how a staff used to turn out 26 episodes in a year, honestly. If you are going to have more episodes you probably need (and have) more flexibility to do standalones. An arc that long (e.g., ENT season 3) can be awfully hard to sustain.
Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 7:01am (UTC -5)
There were a lot of terrible cringeworthy moments in this episode but what annoyed me is that it started with a pretence of women's rights, which would have been an interesting topic to explore, then turned it around by being incredibly insulting to women, transsexuals and with a bit of homophobia thrown into the mix as well.
I'm someone who is very against SJW nonsense shutting down free speech, I found this insulting to women.
My biggest issue with the entire episode is that it wanted to be a statement about women's rights but then turned it around by saying "Actually, only a man can do that job" and ended the episode by suggesting women are overly sensitive and emotional due to hormones!
The DS9 writers did a good job with Kiera, Dax and Winn being strong competent characters, how the hell did the same team decide this episode was OK?
Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 8:13pm (UTC -5)
I'd much rather have a full 24-26 episode season. I personally think churning out a consistently enjoyable season most weeks is doable. Plenty of examples--- from the first five seasons of X Files, Dallas, TNG, DS9, Hill street blues, Melrose place etc. Shows like TNG and X-Files demonstrated 26 standalones can be done and done well. And primetime dramas like Dallas or Hill Street Blues could sustain serialization entirely for the entire season.
The problem with serialization nowadays is the way it has morphed into the "mystery box" style popularized by LOST. It's a totally different model of serialized storytelling where there's a large mythology, everything is intertwined with the energy directed at the shocks and twists and gotcha moments. Too much focus on structure rather than storytelling. Just my .02
Sat, Sep 30, 2017, 8:46pm (UTC -5)
Instead of being a large sprawling TV series, it turns into a 13 hour long movies cut up, but with only enough story to justify maybe 4.
I like when a TV show has a mix of episodes that are one offs and continue the story. Shows like Buffy were great at balancing these aspects.
Thu, Nov 16, 2017, 4:59pm (UTC -5)
Quark in drag as a main premise is just awful. Is this supposed to actually be some kind of women's lib lesson using the Ferengi? I don't think so since the Ferengi are so hopelessly useless in Trek -- nobody can take them seriously for anything. DS9's worst episodes have been Ferengi ones and for me, this one takes the cake, so far.
Rom's at his idiotic worst here. Zek is also super annoying with his hehehe laugh. Technically, I can't find anything good here. Even the attempts at jokes didn't work for me since I was so quickly pissed off at seeing Zek and Moogie near the start of the episode.
Zero stars for "Profit and Lace". Definitely worse than "Ferengi Love Songs" for which I gave 0.5 stars. Just complete stupidity from start to finish. It makes the argument for shorter seasons (fewer episodes) so that the show doesn't feel the need to come up with fillers. That's one thing Discovery has going for it.
Also, since I'm a bit of a nerd, I keep track of my ratings in a separate spreadsheet -- thus far I've reviewed nearly 377 Trek episodes on this site and so far "Profit and Lace" is the 3rd I've rated at zero stars but it is clearly worse than "Spock's Brain" and "Acquisition". The rating difference comes when it gets translated to the 10-point scale!
Thu, Nov 16, 2017, 5:42pm (UTC -5)
For me, they're by far the best. They're vibrant and funny, in stark contrast to DS9 which is for the most part dull and monotonous.
Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 7:01am (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 1:03pm (UTC -5)
However, I think that most of this episode is bad in ways not TNG's fault.
Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 5:19am (UTC -5)
Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 10:54pm (UTC -5)
Are his old ones in a jar in the infirmary, next to his nuts?
Sat, Feb 2, 2019, 8:38pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Feb 6, 2019, 9:44pm (UTC -5)
--Wow. Quark really being horribly creepy with this dabo girl.
--The Negus. Females now have the right to wear clothes. Caused lots of chaos, and Brunt is the Negus. Not a promising start.
--So far, so obnoxious.
--Oh, no. Tootsie on DS9.
--Like Dustin Hoffman's Michael before him, Quark learns what it's like to take what he's been dishing out.
--This ending is extremely stupid.
Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 11:18am (UTC -5)
Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 11:28am (UTC -5)
Or we could just not watch any of those and move on to more substantive episodes.
Fri, Aug 9, 2019, 4:54pm (UTC -5)
Sat, Aug 31, 2019, 11:52am (UTC -5)
I always liked the ACTING Grand Nagus" running gag and Worf's comment that it might not be such a bad thing if the Dominion conquered the Ferengi.
I thought the idea of selling women's rights on the idea that they would be great for the economy, as opposed to it being the right thing to do was very clever.
Sat, Aug 31, 2019, 12:06pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 5:45am (UTC -5)
Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 1:59pm (UTC -5)
In contrast to many star trek fans i almost always enjoy the ferengi episodes. I love the idea of the ferengi and most everything they stand for. Why should the whole galaxy embrace the same values as the federation? Jist look at what star trek has lead us to believe with episodes like TNG Angel One and a hundred others (no right or wrong, just a different culture). But, when one of those societies hold values that demean women like the orion's or the ferengi, star trek steps in to correct any misconceptions we may have had. So remember, it is okay to have different cultures with different beliefs and values just so long as they treat their women right. Well, right as compared to the federation anyway.
Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 2:09pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 4:49pm (UTC -5)
You fail to see one important point, maybe the most important one.
This is a show created by us, not aliens.
The Ferengi aren't an alien society. They are a creation of Humans. They are created by the limits of our imagination to tell us something about ourselves.
I may be a nihilist. In a million years humanity will be gone and what constitutes my body now will have been many things, earth, food, energy and after a few billion years this organism earth will also end and every one you know and everyone you never met will be energy or some form of it so yeah what is the point of anything, still I'm not a big fan of moral relativism.
I'm actually a believer in strong principles. One of them is respect for people who are different but another is speaking my mind even if that may cause me harm.
And in some form or another a lot of Humans must share this or we would still treat women like slaves like the Ferengi do.
Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:56am (UTC -5)
Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 5:42am (UTC -5)
Gotta say, I can't help but laugh whenever someone "accuses" Star Trek of going the Social Justice route, or starts whining about strong women that are giving men orders. Seriously, did this guy live under a rock in the past 50 years, that he doesn't know what Trek is all about?
From a 24th century perspective, this "rough stuff" is just laughable. "Hey bro, what's a primitive guy like you doing on our shiny starship? Oh, and by the way, welcome to the 24th century" ;-)
Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 6:42am (UTC -5)
I didn't really read through all his texts but assumed that there were other bombshell revelations about how women controlled the USA in the 1980s. :D
Wed, Jan 22, 2020, 6:02pm (UTC -5)
The one line (apart from Worf's one) that got a laugh out of me was... probably unintentional. "Giving females the right to wear clothes allows them to have pockets." Women's clothing -- *with pockets???* Looks like the Ferengi are ahead of us hu-mans on one thing, at least.
Now I'm gonna forget I had to watch this and move swiftly onwards.
Wed, Jan 22, 2020, 7:55pm (UTC -5)
Yeah... kinda been dreading you getting to this one. DS9 hits some strong highs, but when it hits those lows... it plummets.
Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:34am (UTC -5)
There are potentially interesting (and fun!) ways to do a "Ferengi feminism" episode. This is all the worst ways rolled up into a big awful ball.
Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 8:04am (UTC -5)
Thu, Apr 9, 2020, 1:20pm (UTC -5)
She’s so nice
Only good part of the episode
Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 1:50pm (UTC -5)
I'll just say that I can see the possibilities when I consider that they could have kept so much of this episode's OVERALL plot intact if they just brought Pel back (and would have made for a most incredible circle back for Quark to deal with an Allura/Pel situation... I think Pel could have been hardened to living in a male-dominated culture long enough that she needed help reconnecting to her feminine side, which would give Quark something to work against in the episode (given his initial statements to Allura) and give Pel something to arc on from beginning to end.
Not that this was what we got, but if you HAVE to rewatch this ep, this may be a good thought experiment.
Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 11:08pm (UTC -5)
And most importantly, pointless.
Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 10:33am (UTC -5)
If you have to ask why that's an insult... you probably won't understand.
Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 9:58pm (UTC -5)
Just kidding! Terrible! Pass the barf bag!!! Yecchhh!!!
Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 10:43pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 2:48am (UTC -5)
I give it 5 stars for sheer prescience some 20+ years before its time about how western society was evolving. There are no cliches in parody, parody explodes all the cliches it engages with.
Boldly goes where ST has not gone before.
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 3:45am (UTC -5)
Saying to people that they should loosen up is pretty douchy, though and firing a shot at "gender rainbow politics" which this episode is not parodying, is really saying a lot about what goes on in you head. I get it, until very recently LGBT people could be discriminated without problems and now they are kind of accepted. That change is tough for some.
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 7:35am (UTC -5)
And, just so we're clear on this, I say that as someone who DESPISES this episode.
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 8:58am (UTC -5)
That would all be fine but he/she but probably he found it necessary to start with an insult of everybody that had a different opinion. "Loosen up" is the nice cousin of "Don't be a pussy". and then the dig at LGBT. I know that is very popular right now but still.
If he had just stated his love or admiration for the episode I would have thought "strange/different tastes" and moved on.
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 11:12am (UTC -5)
A man badly portaying a woman isn't funny (at least to me).
It is a waste of time.
PS- Sexual assault isn't funny either. The "chased by a lust crazed person" gag wasn't amusing when they did it on Three's Compamy 30 years before this was filmed.
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 12:04pm (UTC -5)
2) This argument is dumb
3) The Kids in the Hall wasn't trying to be funny by having guys in drag. They were guys in drag who were funny.
4) What the hell ever happened to Peter Scolari?
Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 9:47pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:53pm (UTC -5)
SFDebris covered it quite well. https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d547.php
Thu, May 6, 2021, 6:57am (UTC -5)
The episode was rank fumetry to be sure, but damn, the quality of the writing and positions expressed in the negative reviews was really just amazing.
Can't add much except to say that I never thought the word "vomit" was so funny until used to describe the efflux assembled by the writers of "Profit and Lace".
To add a few observations.
(1) The Lumba-Nilva (chase the skirt round the desk) scene was intended to redux Some Like it Hot. But didn't work and fell flat.
(2) Worf: "I can't think of any" is a good line and very enjoyable. He's just a head in the background when he says it and without Rom's turn to the right, Worf's head might have been mistaken for a coconut.
(3) The whole episode needed editing. There are actually IMO several short exchanges bottled up in the mess, which approach 'quality' . When Quark is looking at Nilva's ring and Odo says "interesting ring" a few lines follow that I adjudge to be worthwhile. After Odo says "not really", the brief magic ends and all is lost with the hug. Sensitivity, even vulnerability, can be charming. Simpering weakness is, alas, not.
A few sustained seconds of enjoyable dialogue... .025 stars.
Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 12:25pm (UTC -5)
Also, like someone mentioned , the Ferengi since episode one of DS9 were established as this patriarchy first society where women had no rights, why is it '' more '' offensive now when it was accepted into lore, it seems that for all vitriol this episode receives ,context has been thrown out the window ....
Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 1:27am (UTC -5)
You know Trump would do it.
Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 10:47pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 2:05pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Sep 26, 2022, 1:11pm (UTC -5)
But ZERO stars?!? Especially compared to episodes featuring some primitive, stone-age Klingon garbage or The Cisco's mind trips to some fakakta pseudo-spiritual MagicWorld!?!
Come on, man... At least this one provides a few very decent laughs.
Tue, Dec 6, 2022, 12:37am (UTC -5)
Interesting to see Quark having a "woke" moment at the end. Then reverting to his true self a minute later. Quark, ya bastid. But I won't cancel him yet.
Fri, May 5, 2023, 6:44pm (UTC -5)
Fri, May 5, 2023, 6:47pm (UTC -5)
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