“Valiant”

Okay, right off the bat: I consider this the worst piece of junk in the history of the franchise (and I sincerely hope it will keep that status, because I shudder to think how this waste of film material could ever be beaten in terms of sheer badness). If the Federation actually drills its cadets into doing such massively misguided, downright stupid things, congratulations - you've built yourselves a military education system that any totalitarian regime could be proud of. Some of the episode was halfway watchable (like, say, everything with the only thinking person on board, Jake Sisko), but in total, this (known among me and my fellow Star Trek aficionados as "the episode that must not be named"...call the ship the USS Voldemort if you like) made the wrong impression on me. I believe I am not supposed to yell "Yes! Go for it!" when I see a Starfleet ship destroyed, nor should I shout "You overlooked an escape pod!", but that is exactly the effect that the ship's destruction scene had on me. And the bone-headedness of the final scene with the transporter chief (I think it was) just left me speechless. Is it required to hand in your brain when you join Red Squad?

Utterly, utterly misguided and the series' lowpoint, this episode pushes all the wrong buttons with me (and as mentioned, I am not alone in this opinion). I am German, and seeing a group of people shout something in unison is linked with things in my mind that I do NOT want to be reminded of in the context of a Star Trek episode - especially not when the link is caused by the behaviour of the episode's supposed heroes.

Thanks, but no thanks. This episode is to me what "Profit and Lace" seems to be to everyone else - the worst of DS9 ever. And of Trek in general.

Loved that Dominion Warship, though...

Well, I kind of support the opinion published by Ospero. I don't think of this episode as the worst of Star Trek - but I certainly do not regard it as a good one.

Besides from the far too obvious "soldier on-brain off - Switch", everybody seems to have activated on the ship (USS Voldemort - hehe!), I find the story completely unbelievable. Ok, Red Squad is an elite unit at Starfleet Academy (the elite of the elite...) but why oh why oh why should starfleet send them on a mission on one of the rare Defiant-class starships in such dangerous times?

I would like to add that I also was repelled by the "Red Squad, Red Squad"-scene - Maybe this IS a subject, most europeans are more...sensitive to? (I am from Austria).

I have to agree with the above posts, not a good showing. In fact, I found it very painful to watch.

On the topic of them all standing shouting 'red squad', while it may give some of us Europeans (I'm British) a slight reminder of a dark past, it just seemed very American to me, and reminded me of chants of 'USA! USA!'

I also have to agree with the above posts. I would have given this episode 1/2 star and no more. Let's look at the absolute absurdities in it..

1. Even assuming a Captain were to give command of a starship to a cadet because all the true officers were killed, the Captain WOULD NOT give the cadet a field promotion to Captain. And he also wouldn't say "continue the mission". Instead, he'd say "get your butt back home!".

2. Is it really a believable that a bunch of cadets could successfully maintain and operate a starship for 8 months? That would be like turning over a Navy Destroyer to a bunch of 3rd-year midshipmen in the middle of a war and expecting them to survive. I was in the Navy -- trust me, it ain't gonna happen.

3. I found it hard to believe a bunch of cadets would come up with such a serious design flag in the Dominion battleship. Kind of makes the real Starfleet engineers and scientists look like a bunch of dolts.

4. Even given an egomaniac Academy Senior who aspired to messianic tendencies, does anyone really thing the rest of the crew would blindly follow? Are we to assume that the cadets are a bunch of lemmings?

5. There was a vulcan in the cadet group. I though vulcans were logical. Isn't fanaticism an emotional trait?

6. Isn't it convenient that the ONLY escape pod to make it away from the ship in one piece was the one with Jake/Nog & Company aboard. How convenient.

Sorry, I think I'll go back and watch "Let He Who Is Without Sin" again. At least it was more believable.

I didn't mind it, and mostly agree with Jammer. My only complaint is that as a commissioned officer, Nog should have had the authority to assume command. I wonder why he didn't.

I think the utter mindlessness of the crew was one of the points the story was making. I too found some of the behavior of the cadet crew "fascist" such as the captain's coming down hard on Jake for asking an innocent question, then spying on him as he talks to Nog. But these cadets are no different than others we've seen in the past... all young officers in Star Trek seem to be arrogant jerks, all the way back to TNG. These particular arrogant jerks just happened to get control of a starship.

I thought this was a good episode, even with Red Squad being fascisty. I figured that was the point of the story though. I mean, ever since Red Squad was introduced, it seems the only thing they ever do in Star Trek stories is screw up. First episode, it's Tom Paris as not Tom Paris, in Red Squad, who was responsible for someone's death because he was showing off.

I actually thought the entire story of this was heavily biased against Red Squad, right from the beginning, until it's actually a little absurd. Jake is immediately looked down on and deemed untrustworthy because "he doesn't wear THE UNIFORM," as if uniforms all by themselves make people able to be trusted. All it would take is one Jemhadar guy in a Starfleet uniform to completely undermine the ship, because they'd all do whatever he says.

The captain, who is busy turning into House with all his pill popping, spies on Jake until he finds justification for putting him in the brig, just for privately disagreeing with him. Every time Jake talks to anyone else in the crew they just give him a bunch of snark. And I don't think it's just this crew, isolated, that is the problem. The problem is Red Squad, and these "elite" kids who get all cocky and think they're better than everyone else, which just leads to disaster.

The real tragedy was that it almost seemed that the rest of the crew wanted to go back to Earth. They have Dorian crying, clearly homesick, just thinking of the moon. When the captain says their surveillance mission is complete and "we could all go home now," the crew looks happy. Then they get all stern when he tells them that they're all going to risk their lives because they're Red Squad and think they can do anything. Even though they're basically all kids, they can't question the captain's orders, because they're Red Squad. It's like being in Red Squad answers all of their questions for them already.

Anyway, that's why I think this is a good episode. This is one of the reviews or yours I found off though, I don't think they presented any balance in the story. The stuff with Section 31, that definitely seems more gray and justifiable to me, even if it's almost the same thing. Red Squad doesn't even get a fair treatment, and it probably doesn't deserve it.

I think this was a very good episode and I agree with Jammer's analysis.

Something interesting to think about, however, is "what if this concept had been TOS or TNG?" I think that the idea of a "ship of youngsters" could have gone very poorly with those two shows, which have demonstrated a desire to take such concepts too far as to be unbelievable. I think it's a testament to both DS9 and Ron Moore that this premise became such a successful episode.

And I think that that quality DS9 has (well, most of the time) of "keeping it real" as I like to say is what makes it the best Star Trek series.

Arrogance, mindless obedience, cults of personality, fascism: a show can portray characters succumbing to such things without endorsing either the characters or the values. That is the art of tragedy.

Europeans more sensitive to it? Bah.

Let's recall the last time we met Red Squad- in Paradise Lost we discovered that they sabotaged Earth's power grid- plunging the entire world into darkness- and their representative seemed proud of it. This episode echoes Admiral Layton's attempts to subvert Starfleet and the Federation to Fascist rule and he used Red Squad's fanaticism to do so. They weren't the "elite of the elite" in the way we think of it- they were chosen based upon their loyalty to the ideas of a few higher ups in Starfleet who wanted extra influence over these "rising stars."

If a military organization trains some of its people in this way it can only indicate that part of it doesn't know what the other part is doing as evidenced by Layton's attempted coup or later episodes dealing with Section 31.

I don't think it's a particularly good episode but neither do I find it completely unbelievable. Fanaticism is nothing new given what we've seen some Starfleet officers do and Jake's escape pod being the only one that survives doesn't strain credibility more than plenty of similar situations in other episodes (ie none of the major characters being seriously injured/killed when the Defiant was boarded/destroyed or the Station attacked by the Klingons.)

Reading all the comments, I came to the conclusion that this actually IS a great episode, and the main reason for this is that it spawns some decent controversy - which, all in all, is rather rare. I would rate it 3 1/2 stars. Regarding my own stance on the content: I think that Jhoh & Viper basically got it right (even though I think Mauddib succeeds in pointing out some weaknesses).

Although I've disagreed with some of Jammer's other reviews, I've never felt compelled to actually say anything about it until now. In my opinion, giving this episode even a single star would be overly generous.

The premise is absolutely absurd, on every level: a state-of-the-art warship which is desperately needed on the front lines is instead being used to train cadets. Then, starfleet gives this ship a mission instead and doesn't replace the cadets with a real crew capable of completing the mission. Then when the ship's captain dies, he gives a completely inexperienced cadet a field promotion to captain. Then instead of returning home (as they know starfleet would want them to to), the cadets attempt to complete the mission on their own. Then when they do complete it, they decide on their own, without starfleet, to go on another mission (which just happens to be a suicide mission).

Having actually attended a military academy I can tell you that although cadets do tend to be somewhat arrogant and prideful (not to mention a bit brainwashed), they are nowhere near so bone-headed as to think that they can actually do the job of real, commisioned officers or that they could reasonably take command of *anything*.

Equally absurd was the treatment of Jake by the crew of the Valiant. Do you really think that any reasonable person is going to chastise Jake for simply chatting with Dorian? It isn't as if he did anything to deliberately upset her and both the Captain and First Officer know it. I do not understand how Jammer can say that Watters was respectful, dimplomatic and reserved with Jake in this scene. It seemed more to me like he was being excessively rude, patronizing, unreasonable and arrogant.

The scene in which the cadets shout "Red Squad!", as others have pointed out, seems to paint the members of Red Squad as unthinking fanatics. Indeed, many cadets are overly patriotic, prideful and arrogant, but not anywhere near to this extent. This scene is extremely unrealistic and, as others have pointed out, disconcerting.

So, unless Starfleet Academy is somehow far worse than the military academies of today, I find it very hard to believe that a group of cadets could be so deluded as to think they can run a starship, so arrogant that they think they can take on a dominion battleship and so brainwashed that they ignore common sense and simply chant "Red Squad!" when faced with a reasonable argument. The only thing this episode got right was Jake and his reactions to this absolutely absurd situation.

I think the episode's "noble intention" was to demonstrate the ills of fascism, groupthink, and the hubris of youth. Laudable goals, to be sure.

Unfortunately, for all the reasons outlined above, the logical execution of the plot is preposterous beyond belief. I'll submit that this kind of faux pas, The Gaping Plot Hole, offends Trekkies like myself more than any other kind of dramatic production gaffe. I'll add that for the Valiant to have survived for eight months BEHIND ENEMY LINES, maintaining radio silence and not having re-supplied once, while we regularly see Galaxy-class ships captained by experienced officers getting 'blow'd up' after a few shots from a Jem'Hadar fighter, is beyond even the realm of suspension of disbelief.

That former Valiant CO Ramirez didn't order Watters to set a course for the nearest starbase right before he died is also as dumb as rocks. I was almost glad when the Valiant got the living ^%$^%# kicked out of it in the end.

There's also the little matter of those Vulcan cadets who just stand around and nod. I would have figured one of them would have said, "This is illogical," at least once.

At least the actor who played Watters had a sort of nice, easygoing, Nick Locarno-ish rogue charm about him. A natural leader, able to convince young people around him to do what he wanted, simply on the strength of his charisma alone.

So, do we give the episode a pass because it had noble and good intentions? I'm reminded that "No good deed goes unpunished."

I have to say no.

It was all fine up to the point where they took on the suicide fight. This ship is too important to throw away. And surprise surprise the one pod that survives happens to be jake and Nogs.

Initially I found myself wanting to type a long winded comment about why this episode was so terrible, but after reading all the comments I'll just summarize;

This episode SUCKED!!!!!!

I dunno if them having cadets out on the field is that unlikely. It's been mentioned in previous episodes that they're seriously undermanned. They even had an episode where Martok's ship was only able to receive a third of the reinforcements he had requested. Given that logic, it doesn't strain plausibility that they'd crew a ship with their 'best and brightest' with supervision of competent officers.

After all, Nog himself should still only be a cadet, but he was promoted because it was wartime (and obviously to keep him on the show). I think the funny thing is, though, is how much this episode reminds me of the new Star Trek film. I guess Waters wasn't quite Kirk...

I'm with Ravicai...this episode just did not work.

If Captain Ramirez really did promote this imbecile on his deathbed, his dead corpse should be court-martialed.

Yeah, this show was garbage, for all the reasons listed in previous comments.

One thing that afflicted the entire trek universe, from TOS through to Enterprise, was the problem with Starfleet.

Far too often they have used starfleet as the source of some evil-doer who creates whatever disaster the show is focusing on this week. While every single regular cast member is the epitome of a heroic starfleet officer, it's ridiculous that every other member of starfleet is corrupt, evil, stupid, arrogant, ambitious, paranoid, and inept.

YOu can get away with this a couple of times in the life of a series, but Star Trek has gone back to the well twice a season for every one of the 27-odd seasons that make up the franchise across all series.

It's far beyond the point of just being lazy writing, it's criminally lazy writing and makes about 20% of all stories completely predictable.

While I'm complaining, I'll add that Jake Sisko is a terrible character. Are we supposed to be sympathetic to him? He is always whining, making terrible decisions that put other's lives in peril while trying to make himself feel like an adult investigative journalist. Perhaps the writers are doing this deliberately but by this point in the DS9 series I despise him more than any of the 'bad' guys.

I haven't enjoyed a single episode when Jake is the primary character.

This may not be the writers' fault. Cirroc Lofton is as bad an actor as Jake is a character, so perhaps he's not bringing the writers' vision of jake to life. His emotional scenes are flat as a pancake and he has no physical presense at all.

I know Jammer likes both Jake and Cirroc so perhaps I'm digging my own grave, but the DS9 story would have been a lot better off if Jake had never existed.

I think a lot of these criticisms are unfounded.

"The premise is absolutely absurd, on every level: a state-of-the-art warship which is desperately needed on the front lines is instead being used to train cadets."

Front lines? They weren't at war at the time the mission started.

"Then, starfleet gives this ship a mission instead and doesn't replace the cadets with a real crew capable of completing the mission."

The ship was trapped behind enemy lines! And remember the scene when Watters made it clear Starfleet didn't know that cadets were the only crew left?

"Then when the ship's captain dies, he gives a completely inexperienced cadet a field promotion to captain."

He was the head cadet from the group who were actually supposed to be operating the ship for three months; I don't see that he had any better alternative as far as who to put in charge.

"Then instead of returning home (as they know starfleet would want them to to), the cadets attempt to complete the mission on their own."

Remember the part about how they were limited to low warp? I don't think it was as simple as setting a course for home; at low warp they would not have much of a chance of safely passing the oft-mentioned border patrols. But they *were* intercepting communications that showed the battleship was in the area...

1. During the "Red Squad, Red Squad" chanting scene, you'll notice that the Vulcan cadet in the back is NOT chanting. We can speculate what the Vulcan cadet was thinking: "These humans are talented, but emotional, which is exactly what I would have expected. I am concerned that their emotionalism might get us killed, but I've known that to be a risk ever since I joined Starfleet. I might question the humans' command decisions if I thought that I was prepared to lead this mission, but I am not. Therefore, the only logical course of action is to observe the situation while performing my duties as best I can."

2. Captain Watters had undeniable charisma, but that doesn't mean we should believe everything he says. (Why should we be as gullible as the cadets?) Watters claims that Captain Ramirez told him to "continue the mission." Were there any witnesses to this conversation? We know that Watters was much too proud to go slinking back to earth in a broken ship with a dead Captain and a failed mission. There was nothing he could do about the dead Captain, but he sure as hell wasn't going back to HQ without completing his first ever mission. He had ambitions of being an admiral someday, and admirals don't begin their careers by failing their first missions! I don't think Ramirez told Watters anything when he died--he was too busy dying!

J & Wilbur - I'm with you on this one.

I think, Ospero & Jacob, that your concern is exactly the point of the episode. Though they may have been laying it a bit too thickly during the "Red Squad" scene.

They were just a bunch of cadets, yet they managed to survive for 8 whole months behind enemy lines... limited to only warp 3!! I think that's why the crew got cocky. Also why they think Captain Watters is God's next door neighbor and are ready, willing, and able to follow him to hell and back.

Yet they're just cadets. I think their lack of experience is why they underestimated the battleship's strength. Of course it failed, real engineers wouldn't allow that kind of obvious weakness in a ship. But the cadets lack the experience to know that. They're just too full of their own confidence in their abilities.

This show is a little hard to take in at times. I'm not sure how the Valient can take 30 to 40 torpedo hits. That's a little unbelieavable.

I know it is a common convention in Star Trek that whenever they need to escape, the cast has "just enough" time to do whatever they need to do to avoid getting killed. It just seems that whenever the cast fires at an enemy ship though, it only takes 1 phaser... or 1 torpedo.

Voyager was more known for this, but even on TNG this was the case.

I think in this episode, it goes to extreme levels. I don't think the ship should have been able to take that much torpedo fire, and that ruins the believability of the climax.

The new red squadron actors were a little stiff as well. Just something fake about them, especially when compared to the regulars.

Otherwise, enjoyed the show.

It's an impressive battle sequence, but it's annoying how hard it is to destroy a starship when it's convenient. So in a previous episode a Klingon Bird of Prey destroys a Jem'Hadar fighter with a few disruptor shots, but the Valiant can take hit after hit from a huge Jem'Hadar battleship until it's finally destroyed. Yet Jem'Hadar can put up quite a fight against a Defiant-class ship. What's that supposed to tell us about the relative strength of Klingon and Federation ships?

Interesting how this episode is kind of a mirror image of Star Trek 2009. You have the overconfident rookie captain taking on a near-impossible mission after the more experienced commander is incapacitated.

I've never liked Red Squad. The existence of an "elite of the elite" organization WITHIN Starfleet bothers me more than Section 31. When Nog first mentioned it in "Homefront", I was convinced that his classmates were just teasing him and that Red Squad did not actually exist. Alas.

I also think Jake was painted as the only intelligent person aboard the ship right from the beginning and all the other characters were arrogant dolts. That made it easy to see where the story was heading.

During the battle scene with the new Jem'Hadar battleship, I couldn't help but imagine the Jem'Hadar inside going "Well, this not enough of a challenge for us, so let's let them do their thing before we destroy them."

It seems a lot of comments here take issue with Jammer's review, so I won't add too much of my own. I cannot see "both sides" given a fair shake here, frankly: it was pretty obvious that Dead Squad were the antagonists--when have they not been? In a way this was a story about being careful what you wish for, with Nog "in" Red Squad.

What this episode reminded me most of was Lord of the Flies, and so I was very disappointed that none of the cadets got a dressing-down from real Starfleet officers after their crazy actions. I'd love to have seen Sisko instruct Watters on what real command meant....

Loved the FX of the Valiant blowing up, though....

Clearly wasn't the best epsidoe, but I enjoyed it. As for how Watters got in charge & the mission, I agree with Wilbur, that's what I thought happened. And as for the mindless following of orders stuff, how can you say that's unbelievable? Just look at 8years under Bush or the currently sheeple that blindly follow and repeat the Faux news crap. If it's happening now, why is it unbeleive that it would happen then? And with young, somewhat brainwashed, military cadets out on their first real 'mission'?

I didn't mind the episode per se, but there were two elements that drive me nuts: Red Squad and Jake Sisko. The whole concept of Red Squad defies logic. An elite group of cadets? They're young, inexperienced, and in training. The term "elite cadet" seems like a contradiction. Also, their identities are supposed to be secret. What's the point of being the "noble elite" if nobody else knows about it? What happens when they become officers? Do they all go to Special Operations or does "red squad" appear on their resume?

My other problem is just not liking what they did with Jake Sisko. Basically he grew up to be an a**hole. He calls himself a reporter, but acts more like he works for the National Enquirer (that's a gossip magazine for you non-Americans). He tried to throw his best friend under the bus by lying to him about wanting an interview with the Grand Nagus. Here he had genuine concerns with the fanaticism of Red Squad. When it came time for him to make a speech that could potentially save all their lives, the only words that came out of his mouth were "my dad wouldn't do it so you shouldn't either." Really? You've made a name for yourself on this ship as a punk civilian and that's your argument? No wonder they charged with Watters right off the edge.

TAPS in space, except that TAPS was a fun movie. When Dorian started crying, I thought of the little kid in TAPS who jumps up screaming, drops his rifle, and gets shot by Ronny Cox's national guardsmen. Except she didn't get shot. She also didn't jump off the ship, I guess.

The anger sizzling from the comments boxes on this episode are emblematic of the general feelings I get watching this series, but in many ways, this one takes the cake for asinine cowboy theatre.

That Jammer can muster up the word "subtle" for a description of any facet of this episode is beyond me...others have said what needs to be said, but it should be noted that the outrage of this episode is contextually not so horrid--it is the natural outgrowth of what this series put forth. The same must be said of the crappy finale.

I didn't see anything even-handed here either. The message seemed to be that military people, especially elite academy types, are arrogant fascists who think the ends justify the means and are only too ready to stomp over anyone who gets in the way of their quest for glory; while media types like journalists are the voice of reason (even when it's Jake's whiny voice). I didn't think there was a single scene where we were supposed to believe in Red Squad's attitude or actions. The 'captain' was clearly the bad guy from the moment he came on screen.

I disagree with those comments that contend the episode was meant to be one-sided against Red Squad. I agree the execution was clumsy, and most Red Squad members were indeed presented as being too smug, arrogant, and rude to truly be likeable. But knowing that Ron Moore had himself intended to join the Navy (he was Navy ROTC), I suspect he actually intended to provide a somewhat sympathetic portrait of Red Squad as a young crew that is perhaps misguided, probably foolish, and clearly cocky, but still honorable and brave in their way. I don't think he quite pulled off the balancing act of allowing the viewers to, in Nog's words, "decide for themselves", but I figure that probably was the intent.

i think Nic was right earlier, these people are not normal starfleet (although what exactly is normal starfleet, and who doesn't violate prime directives).

these ppl were selected because they were amoral, loyal, and smart, not the most honest and broad minded. Admiral Leyton would not have selected them otherwise.

my disappointment stems from having never seen htat dominoin ship again. (did we?)

I understand what the writers were TRYING to do with this episode, but unfortunately it falls flat when they end up delivering their allegory with all the finesse of severe blunt trauma.

I'm not sure what is such a big deal here, it's Lord of the Flies in space. The only thing annoying is that in all Trek, youth always pay the price for having ideas that seem more clearheaded than most of what the adults come up with. We don't know what went wrong or what we are being told by the fact that the plan, although well-executed, doesn't work. Girls don't know metallurgy? They are too cocky? What does that have to do with factual information?
The silliness to me, is lack of the plan not working with no explaination and everyone dying within 10 seconds of each other and yes, the extended escape scene and even them staying alive in the escape pods.

Just a quick note on this comment - "I mean, ever since Red Squad was introduced, it seems the only thing they ever do in Star Trek stories is screw up. First episode, it's Tom Paris as not Tom Paris, in Red Squad, who was responsible for someone's death because he was showing off."

If you're referring to Wesley's friend in "The First Duty," I don't think he had anything to do with Red Squad, but some other elite group (I believe they were called "Nova Team").

Wow. I remember I had some issues with this back in the day when it first aired. But after watching it again all I can say is... this is the dumbest, most unbelievable ST episode of all time. I'm appalled.

I normally completely agree with Jammer's observations. Definitely not this time though. This is a strong contender for worst Star Trek ever.

I do like Jake Sisko though.

As a journalism major in college, I found myself wishing I was in Jake's shoes throughout this entire episode, itching to start writing my story about how Starfleet Academy is training its cadets to be a bunch of foolhardy nazi's willing to follow the commands of anyone who happens to have 4 buttons pinned onto their neck.

I felt much more anger and disgust toward this episode than I did dismay, as the actions portrayed by the child crew of this otherwise very nice warship reminds me very much of how kids and young adults today are treated when they are considered "special" or "elite". I fond myself putting together a very Hunter S. Thompson gonzo-esque newspaper story in my head during most of the action, just ready to rip these kids and Starfleet Academy a new one.

At first it seemed to me that it was a condemnation of Red Squad - and actually the episode was.

But I just watched "Saving Private Ryan" and saw how many soldiers were killed in the first wave, and how often kids were called upon to perform in extraordinary circumstances. I only wish the deaths had not been so complete, that there had been more survivors.

Nog was the one who had the most insight at the end.

What a character arc they gave to that little Ferengi.

While it's not one of my favorites, I don't think it's as bad an episode as many others seem to think. As someone else pointed out it may well be that Red Squad was picked for blind loyalty over prudence, then built up as the elite of Starfleet Academy, arrogance was bound to be the result.

When we last saw (or heard of) Red Squad, they pulled a false flag attack on Earth itself so that Admiral Leyton, could take control of Earth. Is it a really a huge stretch to see them acting this way when left to their own devices? Especially in a situation they were never meant to be on their own. Their coping mechanism was to further enmesh themselves into the Red-Squad-is-better-than-everyone-ism that had been trained into them.

And now... something probably no one reading this page will understand: "When Did Stephen Ratliff become a scriptwriter for DS9?"

A clarification on Red Squad vs. Nova Squad(from "The First Duty"): They're very different.

Nova Squad was not a secret club of elite cadets, it was a team comprised of 5 top pilots. It's like any other kind of team you'd find at a school or academy, and if you made the team it was because you were an ace pilot.

Red Squad was made up of "the best of the best" cadets, whatever that means. They were given preferential treatment and special treatment in just about every way possible at the Academy.

They were also a group of cadets that were manipulated by Admiral Leyton during his coup attempt in "Paradise Lost." In fact, the security chief of the Valiant, Cadet Shepherd (who pointed a phaser at Jake and put him in the brig) was the same punk who proudly told Captain Sisko about how Red Squad secretly sabotaged Earth's power grid - an act of treason.

My point is this. Nova Squad tried an extremely risky maneuver, lost one of its teammates, and then tried to cover up the truth. Wesley Crusher eventually came clean and everyone in Nova Squadron suffered severe, well deserved consequences. End of story. Red Squad participates in a coup attempt and...what? Gets rewarded by being posted to the Valiant???

This makes NO sense whatsoever. Once the conspiracy was uncovered Red Squad should have been disbanded. End of Story. Sure, they were green cadets and unwitting pawns, but they still participated in shocking and treasonous activities. They "were just following orders," so maybe I could accept that their individual records would not be affected, but Red Squadron itself should have ceased to exist after the events of "Paradise Lost."

One other very bothersome thing - Watters' pill popping. Sure, we've seen plenty of drinking on Star Trek, but we've never seen an alcoholic or any other kind of addict. Certainly not in Starfleet. Yet "Captain" Cadet Watters is apparently addicted to some form of speed in this episode. What's worse, is that it's never even addressed. He's tired and he's been taking too many pills and the crew is a little concerned and...nothing. That, I think, IS a bridge too far for Star Trek. Especially it being a cadet. Sheesh. Section 31 in "Inquisition" and the events of "In The Pale Moonlight" were controversial, but they well thought out and well executed stories.

"Valiant" is not a horrendous episode, but it's not good either. I would have preferred to see Jake talk Nog into taking command and Nog being forced to actually do it because a) he's a commissioned officer and should have AUTOMATICALLY been able to take command, and b) Watters is unfit for command due to serious errors in judgement and, oh yeah, drug addiction.

Hmm
When I was watching “Valiant”, all I could think of was that the writers were creating a Star Trek parody and a dig at the ST fanfiction.
Think about it – a starship piloted by young adults (17-22). Star Trek has fans in all age groups, what is so special about these? Well, younger kids fantasize about serving on Enterprise, but they see themselves as adults there, having finished the Academy and with years of service behind them. Adults don’t really have such fantasies, and they are familiar with how a military is structured and operates, and have had experience making hard decisions. Now, the young adults, watching Star Trek, or playing ST videogames think: “If only I knew how to operate this technology, I could totally do this!” With an obedient crew, a good ship, some gamma torpedoes, and a clear shot, they would go against a Dominion flagship in a heartbeat.
Think of the pre-battle sequence, we have (as I remember) the only montage in DS9, all the cadets ready their weapons, pressing buttons, wearing game faces. Then, captain gives a speech that every film High School football captain gives to their team: “This is important. Nothing will ever be as important as this”. (The speech that is false).
Well, the writers tell us, fantasizers, what would happen – we’d all get killed. Horribly. Pointless.
You see, Starfleet personnel are adults. Not SciFi nerds. Sisco WORKS in Starfleet; he knows what he is doing – just like any other professional. So, please don’t think that you are so great, you can just take command and be the most awesome captain ever (“The greatest story of the Dominion War”).

Now, I didn’t draw parallels to the latest Star Trek film before I read the comments above. But, apparently, writers of that film had different ideas on how the cadets-running-the-spaceship situation will turn out. And I loved that film too! Watched in twice. You know why? Because I am a young adult as well.

Star Trek is supposed to make you think. About life, the human condition, the viewer's sociopolitical views, etc.
So it's a pretty bad sign when the only thing I was thinking throughout most of this episode was "Man, I really hope that commander girl gets killed."

I'm getting pretty fed up with how battle damage works in Star Trek. I am sick of the searing sound effects whenever a bunch of sparks explode from the computer panels. I am sick of people dying simply because they were forced form their seat onto the floor. I am sick of ships taking any damage at all until the shields are completely gone. At least a couple of times an exploding panel has killed people before the shields were down. I know. They need people to die without a hull breach sucking everyone else out of the room, but it's just getting so unbelievable. And, as others have said, it makes me crazy that starships are so hard to destroy when the story needs them to be hard to destroy. Also, if torpedoes have homing mechanisms and phasers are always used with locking, why is there ever a miss? I understand that guidance and locking systems can go down, but several times in DS9 battles, the enemy ships miss when they haven't yet taken any damage.

The Jem Hadar ship was damned impressive, though. I think that it could have taken out the valiant with about 12-15 well-placed quantum torpedoes. I should go back to see how many times the Valiant was hit before it exploded.

Ladies and gentlemen, we're all posting comments to a review of an episode of "Star Trek". It's safe to say we're all nerds and that nerds should hold themselves to a more exacting standard of minituae recall.

In "The First Duty" Wesley Crusher was not a member of Red Squad or Nova Team or Nova Squad. It was Nova Squadron.

Sheesh.

Your post is a fine example of meticulous exactitude, Yakko. Well done.

PS. This episode sucked.

Reading some of the comments here, and the irony is overwhelming. I point at 'Valiant' as an example of what happens when hubris and arrogance overrides reason.

Also, A fresh out of the academy cadet gets a battlefield commission and goes head to head with a vast warship...

In reality, it's 'Valiant'

In goofy whiz-bang adventure, it's 'Abrams Trek'

While watching i was begging for an ending where Sisko beams onto the Valiant after a failed but not deadly attack on the warship and gives every "Bridge officer" a slapping for being arrogant Idiots.

In my opinion this episode would have been far better if it had been about Nog questioning whether they had the right to be able to command a ship like that as cadets with no real officers, and whether they are right to keep on the 'mission' regardless of whether the previous Captain said they should or not. Then i think some sort of resulting "mutiny" by Nog and a few other cadets to avert a suicide mission would have been good...(and some cadet slapping by Sisko at the very end of course)

But yeah, It just doesn't work in it's current form or me.

I'm in a middle ground between those of you who hated this and those of you who thought it was pretty/really good. ... I liked the idea of the episode, but the execution and plot points were flawed.

I can kind of get over the whole idea of taking cadets out for a training cruise in a Defiant-class ship. Kind of. But it would have been better if they had a different type of ship. I guess they got a Defiant-style ship for budget reasons.

I think it would have been better if they had been behind enemy lines for less time and in a more dire situation.

Finally, the guest actors left me rather flat. They weren't awful, but they didn't light up the screen either.

I've seen worse though -- like the entire third season of "Enterprise," for instance. This was flawed, not up to Season 6 standards and especially not up the story arc at the start of Season 6 or "In the Pale Moonlight," but hardly a candidate for my personal Hall of Shame for Trek episodes. Not even close. For me, it was a decent, nonmemorable DS9.

I agree with everyone's sentiments about how awful this episode is, so I'll leave them alone. But once you accept the premise, there was a part of the execution that bugged me too.

The episode seems to want to leave us thinking "did they go down in a blaze of glory or were they just stupid"? That is, at least based on the conversation at the end, where Nog says to put that in Jake's story too and let the audience make up their own mind.

But everyone's reaction here to Watters is universally negative because he *fails*. I think if they had destroyed the warship but taken heavy, heavy casualties, it would have left you with more interesting questions. Of course, the terribleness of the premise makes all that a bit moot.

One other thing, why do Starfleet cadets always look 15? Red Squad is described as "as young as 17". If that's the minimum, say 21 is the maximum. Those actors might actually be 17 to 21 or even older but they always cast with an overly "youthful" look. They should look a bit more like the BSG Viper pilots sitting around playing cards, and less like 15 year olds hanging out at the mall.

What I'm getting at here is I think the casting undermines the concept. I think talented, mature 17 to 21 year olds could rise to an occasion like this in theory, but the way they're presented makes it hard to swallow.

I have to agree with Benny26. I thought this episode would end with some kind of mutiny, where the level-headed cadets take over the ship from the delusional fanatics with a death wish. I was kind of surprised when the episode ended by basically killing everyone on the ship except Jake, Nog, and Dorian.

I noticed that all the human male Reds had pointy-shaped sideburns. I think this is typical Starfleet fashion in all the ST series, but it's still a telling detail that shows how heterogenous the organisation is. A bit like the closely trimmed soldiers and Marines of our time.

By the way, Cirroc Lofton (Jake) must be the worst actor of the show. He can't act his way out of a wet paper bag! Only Molly manages to make me cringe more, but at least she's a child.

A commissioned officer (Nog) being outranked by cadets, calling them Sir? Ridiculous and totally unbelievable. Suppose it wasn't Nog who was beamed aboard, but Worf, he had to listen to the cadets "outranking" him?

And a lot of the cadets looked like children, not like the young man and women that you would suspect.

One of the worst Trek episodes ever.

A lot of comments on here are claiming this to be one of the worst episodes in the history of Trek. Personally, I don't buy into that at all, and further I'd add that if so it ranks some way behind any episode involving Lwaxana Troi, Ferenginar or some implausible "Wesley Crusher saves the day" moment. The only crime this episode seems to commit (aside from some really dislikeable characters and the absurd Quark-Dax moment which made me cringe) is in its premise of having a crew of cadets on a Defiant-class behind enemy lines for eight months, which seems to have REALLY gotten on people's nerves. I would make the following points:
1) Cadet cruises happen in real life, as do battlefield commissions and promotions.
2) The Valiant was one of many, many Defiant-class ships in commission by that point. Allocating one of the older ones to Red Squad would not cripple a fleet full of Galaxy-class starships and the like.
3) The Valiant was on a circumnavigation of the entire Federation. It's fair to say it would have been pretty stocked up with supplies, and in any event had a skeleton crew so could eke out what resources it had via the replicators.
4) As for why it stayed behind enemy lines, it's limited to Warp 3.2 at the start of the episode. The Jem'Hadar would have blown it apart before it got close to DS9. Staying below the radar is what a lot of soldiers did in the Second World War until an opportunity to reach neutral territory presented itself.

Also, the most recent point about Nog being outranked: battlefield commissions take full effect unless subsequently rescinded. See the Maquis in Voyager for example. It may bring about absurd results at times, but it's not "totally unbelievable". No more than Kirk being promoted such in ST '09, at any rate.

I wouldn't say this is one of Trek's finest hours by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it's quite deserving of the vitriol directed towards it here. Especially considering the episode which came after it...

I would just add, though, that the "Red Squad" chanting scene made me cringe as much as the Quark-Dax one...

After reading the many negative comments, I think there is some misunderstanding regarding the plot. The crew of the Valiant was under strict orders to maintain radio silence, hence Starfleet Command didn't know about the Valiant being under command of cadets. Some posts mentioned that it is a plot hole for Starfleet to let cadets maintain commmand. That is simply not true. Starfleet simply didn't know.

Also, I believe that any TV episode that can spark so much controversy and discussion, cannot be a bad episode.

Desirewu:

Yes, you are correct that the cadet-control was not an oversight by the writers.

No, you are not correct that an episode which sparks "controversy" is inherently good (or at even "not bad")--see this franchise's "Threshold" for a nearby example.

This episode is bottom-of-the-barrel for Trek. Bad ideas, bad characters, bad acting, bad messages. Just bad.

I had to skip through parts of this it was so bad.

0/10

Boring, boring, amazingly boring. Only not more boring because of its atrociousness: the plot is about "best of the class" teenagers being arrogant. Oh wait, the plot is about teenagers having absurdly run a top-notch starship for 8 months, with no one knowing - and being arrogant.

Did I mention that putting the Red Squad in the arrogant position is just predictable as it can be? Oh yes, and what about screaming "Red Squad" in chorus when someone gives one very single (stupid, that's true, but whatever) contradictory speech?

I can't even believe I just wrote that. "Red Squad", "Red Squad", "Red Squad". It's not only one of the worst episodes in the whole Trek ever, but it is a new step in the recent strong moves of DS9 to dis-construct what all Trek medias have defined before as being the Federation and Starfleet.

In the end, it may be chocking that Jammer has used a "Pretty strong" to summarize his feelings about this one. But well, it turns out that it makes sense: for me, very strong this episode really is, only that I mean very strong punch in the inner of my head.

This episode was such a piece of garbage that I was compeled to write a review, especially when I've seen that you'd given it three stars!
This has nothing to do with humanity of Star Trek that has outgrown its petty need for proving something to others and the sheer arogance manifested by most of the crew. Maybe they were intented to be shown as noble people with a difficult task on their hands, but I the only impression I got was that they were a bunch of monkeys too drunk on their power and the importance of the Red Squad membership.
Also I find it interesting that Jake, who was not even a starfleet officer, was the only voice of reason onboard. When he said what his father would've done in their shoes only made me realize even more how stupid they were (not that I needed any help).
Once captain Ramirez had died, "captain" Waters should've taken the Valiant back home. I don't buy all the "we're helping milions of people by ultimately getting ourselves killed" crap for a second. So the only reason why that did it was to show how great they were because they happened to be given a ship they shouldn't have gotten in the first place.
And weren't there Vulcans onboard? If the rest was that dumb, one would say that they would've said something to that idiotic plan. You don't have to tell me that it's not a nice to want to see a Federation starship destroyed but it was the highlight of the show for me when I saw the Valiant crumbling into pieces.

Oh and one more thing, what the hell was wrong with that "first-officer-super-bitch"? It was like the writers had to make a character which would be made of everything what was wrong with the crew. It was more like a spoiled-I-gotta-have-everything girl that spends her time hanging around malls gossiping than a starfleet officer of the 24th century. I think that if Gene could see this episode, he'd turn in his grave.

Maybe my review is a little harsh, but in my opinion, this can't be Star Trek due to the qualities (or lack of) of the people who should be one of the best that humanity has to offer.

I don't understand why this episode has so many haters. Ok, the premise was far fetched and unrealistic, but DS9 has continually chosen to prioritize the exploration of humanistic response in extreme situations over plot logic or continuity. This episode does that in spades, asking the question how far can a charismatic, obsessed leader go and how far will his crew follow. It's DS9s adaptation of Moby Dick.

The implausibilities were difficult to swallow. A battlefield commission to ensign is one thing, a battlefield commission to captain, that doesn't happen. I found it hard to believe at best that the leader of the cadets was tasked with continuing the mission. Most likely there were no such orders and when the captain died, Watters inferred that he should continue the mission. The most logical thing to do would be to return to Federation space if possible, and failing that, simply survive. In any case, they aren't a real crew, the pips on their collars aren't valid.

It's perfectly plausible to have a crew of cadets, just not on a state of the art warship. Starfleet needed all the ships it could get for the war, but there were still other missions that needed to be done. Starfleet would likely have activated the mothball fleet, outdated ships that that had been decommissioned but could be brought back into service if needed. Activating these ships would free other ships for the front lines, and the ships doing "milk runs" could be crewed by cadets.

Were they brave or foolish? They were both. They let their sense of elitism override good sense. The "captain" seemed like a tin-plated dictator with delusions of godhood. Threatening Jake for simply speaking to one the crew about home is not the act of a leader, but of someone desperately in over his head. When you think you're that elite, it must be grating to have to wait to have your greatness acknowledged. And suddenly the opportunity to be in charge presents itself. Return home, and the ship gets taken away, I can see it being very tempting to use any excuse to stay out there.

The last time we saw Red Squad, they were engaged in treasonous acts. I imagine they were duped into it. We don't know how they were told, what manipulation was involved. Red Squad is the sort of thing you get when accountability, oversight and chain of command are thrown out the window. It's not something that happens at real academies, but it could exist if you didn't have oversight. When people outside of the academy can break the chain of command to give clandestine orders to a squad in the academy, it's open to abuse.

I think the ending might have been better if the ship had been rescued and they had to eat some crow, and take off the pips. It's a decent episode, I find the episode itself plausible, while I don't find the excuses the "captain" used to be plausible. That is, I find it perfectly plausible that the captain used implausible excuses.

It's almost comical how poorly behaved Red Squad is within the Trek franchise. That said, the SFX in this episode were better than usual, with some good CGI work. The acting by the young cast was also quite good.

I very often enjoy reading Jammer's analyses after watching an episode, since I find it helps me reflect better. It has happened that I changed my opinion after discovering that I missed some points. It has happened that I disagreed with parts of his analyses, or his overall conclusion.

But, damn it, never quite so badly!

I absolutely cannot see how Jammer could've possibly come to his appraisal, considering that he is usually rather critical, looking at the big picture, trying to understand characters and the way they are depicted on screen. Arguments which have been pointed out repeatedly in so many comments. Eludes me!

This is a very odd episode because it has some really interesting ideas and some good scenes along with some really faulty logic and poor characterization.

It's pretty hard to swallow that the Dominion wouldn't have found the Valiant in eight months and destroyed it. This episode might have worked better earlier in the season/war, but eight months? So much for the Jem Hadar being an effective killing force.

Beyond that, why is a Jem Hadar warship, apparently under construction, just hanging in space relatively close to the Federation border? Shouldn't the ship be in a more secure location?

This episode is a good use of Jake and Nog -- and I liked Watters for most of the episode. But his line that "We're Red Squad! We can do anything!" just went way over the line and kills the believability that he was up to getting the Valiant crew through eight months behind enemy lines.

The Cheese Factor was the biggest problem for me - the acting and dialog were simply atrocious, especially from the first officer but also from, well, pretty much everyone besides Moon Girl and Nog. And because I was primed for cheese, the "Red Squad Red Squad!" scene struck me as a cheesily scripted "Go team!" moment and not as the fascism which perhaps the writers intended.

My more important complaint is with the ep's essential dishonesty. I felt I was being led by the hand to side with Jake and agree that the young captain was clearly a nut because he was risking his crew on a dangerous mission with a slim chance of success. (Even Nog endorses this view in the end.). But that is sheer manipulation. Fact: week after week on DS9 (and every other action series, in every war movie, etc). , this exact trope is played heroically. The guys who are willing to give their lives to destroy an enemy -- who volunteer for a daring suicide raid -- are shown as Big Damn Heroes. Even if they fail, even if they die, we still esteem them for risking all and making the big sacrifice. And why? Because they are the main characters. Here, they are not. That's the only difference I see.

This would have been a much better show had it actually been even-handed. The Lord of the Flies elements could have been toned down, and the ending could have Jake and Nog still disagreeing about whether the captain's choice was right or wrong. Nog could have made a reasoned argument in his defense. He could have talked about all the adult-run ships that have thrown themselves against the Dominion and been decimated, how war involves risk and sometimes gambles fail and soldiers are trained to accept this. Jake could have disagreed. We could have pondered and made up our own minds. That would have been an honest story.

Ah yes, Nog. DS9's version of Wesley Crusher. Does anyone else get irked by how much the producers focus on this little fucker? I swear anytime there is anything happening of great importance, there's Nog in the back yuking it up with the senior officers. Like seriously, wasn't he still a "cadet" just a few episodes ago? Anyone ever remeber the episode "Lower Decks" from TNG? That episode showed just how tough it can be to make rank and to even get the chance to interact with the senior staff.

Then comes Nog who's on the bridge in almost any Defiant related episode, right there in thick of the action and getting all kinds of bullets on his resume. I call grade A bullshit on that. Nog needs to go back to the academy where he belongs and work his way up the ranks just like everyone else.

Not the worst episode but certainly not very good. The whole thing came off as a bit manipulative and certainly very very clumsy. I am never really one to nitpick myself but the holes in the plot and leaps of logic were just too much for me in this episode, and then throw in some poor scripting, lazy writing and stilted acting and it plays out almost like an abandoned pilot episode for a failed to launch "Young Star Trek: Valiant" spin-off series....

Saying an episode is good purely on the basis of its ability to spark controversy is like saying a random sandwich must be good because of its ability to contain cheese. Be careful eating that sandwich; it may contain bullshit.

I understand what this episode is trying to convey as far as blind patriotism, hive-mind mentality, and inexperience coupled with faulty arrogance. But a good message doesn't make a good episode. What we know of how Starfleet operates doesn't fit with the plot shown here. Not only that, but it is a completely illogical turn of events on many levels. Most of which has already been posted in previous comments.

Only good parts are a few lines of actually nicely written dialogue and the episodes technical payoff.

This episode doesn't simply falter; it trips and falls against the concrete...hard. It then wakes up in the hospital wishing it all a nightmare, while being handed a mysterious sandwich...

First major stumble of the season.

1 star.

This episode, well, I didn't like very much at all. It was hard to care for such a demented and condescending crew like the Valiant's. What I did like, for continuity sake, was that Red Squad and Nog's past aspiration of joining their elite ranks was given a climactic episode. I also liked how it showed that no group, however prestigious, is invincible, and they're human just like you (well, so to speak, Nog). I didn't very much enjoy this episode, but it's nice to see Jake be in the right.

I will say this in the defense of the Valiant's crew, though: no, Red Squad's behavior onboard the Valiant was not characteristic of Starfleet. But, given that they were prideful teenagers to begin with, who were then sent out on a months-long mission into isolation where they had to fend for themselves, it was clearly too stressful and too big an order for them, so that fault was on Starfleet for sending them out there in the first place.

Nog is an idiot. He comes off as gullible and condescending to jake. At the end of this ep I wanted him to tell jake he was sorry and jake was right. In the early seasons nog said he and rom were both idiots when it came to earning profit. Apparently he is an idiot when it comes to starfleet as well. And can I just point out that a few seasons ago JAKE WAS TEACHING NOG TO READ. So he went from learning how to read to doing complex operations on the bridge of a starship. I can't believe he has learned to do anything in a starship that doesn't include cleaning up the kitchen.

No. Starfleet does not train its cadets to be brainwashed fascists, as what happened in the episode. The entire point was that we were seeing this group of kids as young as seventeen under major pressure to keep the ship running and maintain a mission. They were really feeling that pressure and it was getting to them. The "captain" cadet was popping pills and the engineer cadet was homesick.

We've already seen Red Squad as this very elite group that's extremely loyal to each other. The label of "Red Squad" was a big deal. It's like someone's loyalty to a sports team. Or the school they went to. Only much stronger. They feel like they belong to something and have a massive amount of respect for each other. Red Squad has that loyalty, but much much stronger since they all believed that they were the best of the best and having that label of "Red Squad" meant they were somebody.

When you combine those two aspects together: being out in the battlefield for so long, feeling the pressure and the massive in-group loyalty, you can see why this sort of system existed.

Hey, was Nog an Ensign yet? If so, he should have relieved Captain Nemo and took the Valiant back to DS9.

I don't for a second believe the dying Captain told or even hinted to Watters to complete the mission. His order would have been "get out of here, go to..."

I don't for a second believe that even if the dying Captain only told Watters to take command, that the crew would have blindly just followed him on this stupid quest. Especially for 8 MONTHS!!

I don't for a second believe that a ship limited to wap 3.X with no cloak survives for 8 months.

I don't for a second believe Watter's little talk with Jake was meant as anything but a method to his madness. He needed Jake to shut up.

I don't believe for a second that a group of anyone would support going after this monstrosity of a battleship.

Nog, while in character here (not correct, but in character), was fine I thought up until he supported attacking the battleship. Not even Nog is that naive.

"NOG: He may have been a hero. He may even have been a great man. But in the end he was a bad captain."

I don't think he was any of the above Nog. I think you and the cadets were stupid and enabled Watters and I think you owe a big apology to Jake.

Watters might have been sincere, or he might have been nuts, but someone’s clearer head should have prevailed. Officers don't blindly follow orders, they are there to question as well. How many times has Sisko be respectfully questioned by his officers? All the time.

.5 stars because the XO was cute.

For the life of me, I've never understood why people hate this episode so much, though I respect everyone's perspective. I thought it was pretty good - DS9's done better but it was a strong story that had a lot to say. Most of the plot holes people keep pointing out were actually addressed in the episode. I suspect, as a few commentors have hinted, that American viewers would find the chanting and groupthink a little less frightening than European viewers. Maybe that's part of the issue, I dunno.

The sheer ridiculousness of this episode is personified by Farris, the ship's first officer. She's written and performed like an 8-year-old child instead of the elite Starfleet cadet she's supposed to be.

"What's going on, Mister Sisko, *in case you haven't noticed*, is that *we* are in the middle of a *war*," she says, delivering the line with the gravitas of an elementary-school know-it-all. "I don't remember anyone inviting *you* to the bridge," she tells Jake in another scene as if speaking to her annoying little brother. Ridiculous!

The people on that ship are mostly caricatures of young and eager cadets. A terrible episode, although certainly not the worst.

This must be the first episode of the series that has a near-unanimous bad reputation that I completely disagree with. I'm not going to try and argue since I think Jammer's review makes my case for me. I'll just leave a few points here that I think are interesting:

-Nog. A really good use of the character. We saw how much he wanted to join Red Squad back in S4, so it's nice to see him faced up with his old role models and... well, try to "make it" this time. I don't think Nog was completely blinded, but the drive towards being in a club he'd never been able to join is part of what makes his role in this one interesting.

-Jake. Making Jake Nog's foil probably strengthened Nog's resolve to go along with Red Squad's BS - he just doesn't seem to respect Jake anymore. But who would, in his situation? I have nothing against Jake, but it's very easy to see military cadets serving in wartime seeing someone their own age - the son of a current hero, no less - who isn't contributing as a hanger-on. Indeed, Watters almost out and out says it when he meets Jake.

-Watching the tides turn on the Valiant crew is actually pretty compelling. Unlike whoever conceived tripe like 'The Magnificent Ferengi', Moore doesn't put the idiot hat on the Dominion for the sake of an hour's entertainment. The achilles heel in the battleship is a really well done red herring, showing off how RS have become so damned overconfident that they think a day's analysis is equal to Starfleet Command's technical and tactical expertise. Did they even get the data back to Earth - the data on which the entire mission was based?

-Red Squad. For most prohibitively arrogant people, personal achievement is an end in itself; the big picture is only a game to be played and won. Was the helm the same slappable douche the Sisko grills in "Homefront"? If so, it's a nice bit of continuity. A scene with Nog might have been nice, though.

-I've said it before, but Jammer mentions it outright in this review: this series wastes way too many scenes to get all its actors in an episode at once. I appreciate the attempt at making the station feel more lived in than just the plot of the episode, but the teaser with Odo, Dax, and Quark just had no relevance at all.

Anyway, this one's a strong 3 stars for me. I'll take the heat for it, sure.

Star trek tackles the issue of child soldiers.

Was it a success? I'd say no. The plot was entirely predictable. The 'child' soldiers on the ship were overly smart brainwashed automatons who were obviously doomed. Imagine the fallout in the Federation if it was discovered children were being used as cannon fodder behind enemy lines?

Yes, I realize DS9 (and this season 6) did its best to show how depraved and fallen the Federation had become, sacrificing its once prized ideals to battle an even worse enemy. I get it...but that doesn't the exercise good entertainment. That the Valient serendipitously blows up at the end is as good a deus ex machina than any prophet 'worm hole' could conjure up. Blowing up the ship also neatly avoids any and all moralizing or deeper implications for what just occurred. Overall, weak Trek on all counts.

--- as a contrast, compare STOS episode, Miri - wherein nearly feral children commit horrible bloody murder, but face the consequences of their actions, while also maintaining their humanity. This DS9 episode has no such payoff. 2 stars.

'Red Squad'. They were either members of the Communist Party Youth or the GOP Mickey Mouse Club. Take your pick. Fanatics everywhere.

Nog was right in one thing, Watters was a bad Captain, he go everybody killed.

Hated this episode. I found it incredibly convenient that ALL of the commissioned officers died - I kept waiting for a scene where Watters admitted to killing them all, but I suppose that would have been too extreme even for the baloney in this episode.

Also the fact that the Vulcan cadets just agree with what's happening. What happened to logic? If it had been any other species then fine, but Vulcans? Like someone mentioned above, I almost cheered when the Valiant exploded.

Guess in a way, the directors succeeded in this episode, since they obviously evoked such strong feelings in the audience.
Also I have to echo an earlier poster that "The existence of an "elite of the elite" organization WITHIN Starfleet bothers me more than Section 31." Same for Nick Locarno's Nova Squadron or whatever it was called. Section 31 really played the shades of grey issue much better. They asked the audience to consider how much was "too far" in a war, in the same way Garak did in 'In the Pale Moonlight.' All this episode did was to make me ask why the "best and brightest" of Starfleet were a bunch of arrogant, bigheaded and megalomaniac a**es.

The lack of closure at the end also really irritated me. I have a feeling that a lot less people would have disliked this episode as much, if we'd been shown a scene of Sisko firmly dressing down Nog or that Red Squad girl, or even Nog apologising to Jake and admitting that he was right. Instead Nog keeps on getting promoted and pulls off stunts that apparently half the senior VOY crew can't... Never could swallow that. I also agree with a previous comment that Nog is DS9's Wesley Crusher. At the end of season 7, he ends up as a Lietenant. REALLY?

What made it hard for me to watch this episode twice was, the good guys got destroyed so thoroughly and completely, it was hard to see it again. On the other hand for the people who thought Sisko and a few others did not suffer any consequences for their action (In the Pale Moonlight) for one, this episode should help them realize that some people do suffer consequences for their actions on DS9.

MsV, I don't think I could call them the "good" guys. They're a bunch of self-deluded, megalomaniac Starfleet cadets who bit off more than they could chew. Personally I found it hard not to cheer when the ship blew up, since I thought they had it coming to them, and judging from the other comments here, I'm not the only one.

If they'd ever returned to Federation space, their reckless actions and desire for flyboy glory almost certainly would have gotten a lot of people killed and jeopardised the entire Dominion War for the Allies. What this episode's trying to convey, as I see it, is that there isn't really any "glory" in battle. It was pretty clear that these kids were doing it mostly for the glamour factor, and they'd let their identities as Red Squad members go to their heads, at a fatal price.

It's a shame this episode went so far off the deep end. There was a somewhat reasonable premise for for cadets ended up in charge of a starship behind enemy lines. It would have been a simple thing to make them arrogant without turning them into a parody. Tone down the fascism (especially with respect to how they treat Jake), make them a little more sympathetic/conflicted, give them a pressing reason to go after the battleship despite the terrible odds, have a couple other escape pods survive... Then it could have been a great episode, instead of this swill.

DS9 is at its best exploring the grey zones. This episode was too lopsided.

Vii, the only reason I said "good guys" is to differentiate between "Dominion)." You are so right they were a bunch of self-deluded, megalomaniac Starfleet cadets who bit off more than they could chew. It also struck me as being odd that Watters was offended with Jake at talking to Dorian about home. Jake had no way of knowing that this was a forbidden topic. I am sure this is where the flags came up. (in Jakes mind). Nog made me sick in this episode, when he saw "Red Squad" he put on his blinders and didn't take them off until everyone was being killed.

I always liked this episode a lot.

I didn't find it at all unrealistic that Ramirez gave his best and most experienced cadet the battlefield commission of Captain. The ranking officer on a ship was always considered the captain to his/her crew and he had to leave someone in charge.

As for Nog not taking over it could be either that he had also received a battlefield promotion to ensign (he had only been at SFA 2 years) and did not outrank Watters or that even if he technically did outrank him, his own inexperience, Watters having lead the Valiant for 8 months and the sort of cult of personality around him would have made that impractical.

There is no doubt Worf, Dax or even O'Brien would have immediately taken command in Nog's spot.

I thought Watters was a heroic cadet, who kept his crew together against impossible odds, but ultimately failed to recognize his own limitations and those of his crew and got them killed.

I also think having an understandably weak First Officer enabled his demise. An experienced one would have demanded that he get some sleep and stop popping pills and threatened to relieve him of duty if he did not. But, like Watters, she was thrown into a situation where she was in over her head.

I thought it was a bit unrealistic how harsh she was with Jake over his harmless conversation with Collins.

I understood why Watters wanted to separate him from Nog after the conversation in the engine room. Jake was going way out of line there and interfering. That said, having the 2 security officers take him to the brig at phaser point was absurd.

If they ever made it back to the Federation, Captain Sisko would have had Watters and his 2 goons cleaning out DS9's waste extraction system with toothbrushes for the next year for that. Confining him to quarters would be the realistic response.

I found this episode very well played. I think 'Red Squad' is supposed to be akin to naziism. Think about the big picture. All the cadets thinks Red Squad is superior to everyone else. They even have certain rules. 'Don't talk about emotional things...blah blah' They have a symbol, the Red Squad badge. And I really started feeling the nazi vibe when everyone started chanting 'RED SQUAD! RED SQUAD!' Everyone took orders from the cadet captain blindly. Even to their death. I like this episode's metaphors.

@Ashton Withers
Well I guess they were sort of like the Nazis, without the racism, anti-Semitism, concentration camps, gas chambers, desire for global domination etc, etc.

Come on, they weren't anything like Nazis. They were generally good, very courageous young people fighting for a noble cause under extremely difficult circumstances.

Their fatal flaws were that they became arrogant and overestimated their own abilities and that they allowed their undestandable admiration of Watters to cloud their judgement and lead them to follow him blindly.

This was such a weird episode - it seemed to have a lot of dramatic potential and nothing much happened. All the interesting stuff seemed to have already happened - had they been captured or something then there could have been something.

The plot also. What happened to that message to the Grand Nagus? Why that opening montage? What happened to the 8 month's mission results? It's all a waste? So what's the contribution of this 'dramatic' episode to the storyline? Absolutely nothing!

@John G.
I am talking about how a human will give up his/her individuality to feel superior. That was one part of Nazism. Certainly not all of it.
And they were discrimatory against Jake, simply because he didn't share the same views. They locked him up.

Not deserving of the hate it gets here, but still a pretty weak outing. Jake Sisko and a lot of shaky young actors can't hold an entire episode together, and the whole premise really strains credulity. Only Nog and Dorian (the moon girl) were of any interest.

The surprise isn't that these kids were destroyed, it's that they survived out there as long as they did. Red Squad seem to be a cadre of privileged "elite" cadets who think they're really special and can do anything. But the truth is, their entitlement and arrogance makes them a liability to themselves and the Federation. We saw that plainly here, and in Homefront and Paradise Lost as well. That's what this episode is about. Not fascism.

This one has bothered me forever. As a Captain in the Army..."Cadet, thanks for holding things together. I'm taking command of the unit and we're going to do X now." And pretty much every cadet in the history of cadets is going along with that when a real officer shows up, probably even when a real NCO shows up too.

I never liked red squad. Stupid spoiled brats; I cheered when they died.

Dumb as two bricks, this one. Although I suppose in showing the likely consequences of self-delusion, hubris, megalomania, and getting hopped up on stimulants takes you, it has a value. What DS9 usually gets right is nuance - something these last two episodes have badly lacked. Here, Watters was unarguably not a hero or a great man, but a charismatic fanatic who got his crew killed.

The guest performances weren't great across the board, and what was with the pre-credit scene? Did that come from another episode or something?

Some nice VFX at least. 1.5 stars.

Man,when that girl was telling Jake about the sun rising on the moon it was sure some great acting. Probably the best funny bad part from season 6.

This episode dares to ask: who is right -- the clear-eyed journalist who speaks truth to power, or the pill-popping teenage arrogant captain? The episode of course depicts Red Squad as authoritarian and unthinking and in over their heads, so it's not like it's some sort of error on the episode's part that RS comes across looking bad. But it's not much of an argument -- Watters et al. seem clearly wrong from the get-go, so about all we're left with is "inexperienced cadets can't really do everything," which turns out to be valuable in the wake of Star Trek 2009 but otherwise is too obvious to build a story around. We're talking about a group of people who call asking where somebody is from interference worthy of the captain's attention and discipline; a cadet who talks about her home for a minute before bursting into tears; a captain who couldn't get their ship to go above Warp 3.2 for months and then declares "We're Red Squad! We can do anything!"

It does occur to me that it's a pretty rough situation if there *were* any members of the crew who saw how screwed they were, and how obviously unhinged they were. It's not exactly easy to mutiny. If Collins or whoever recognized that they were pretty definitely going to die by going after the Jem'Hadar ship, or chafed at the level of implicit (at first) and later explicit censorship of thought or subject (no thinking about home! ever!) what exactly could she do? I suspect that the thoughtlessness of RS's attitude is probably an adaptation to the circumstances, since it really would be basically impossible to stop Watters if he has the majority of the crew on his side. And that's an interesting idea to explore, which I would tend to say is not. Collins is the crew member who has the *most* evidence of thought independent of Watters, and she declares him a Great Man at the end, so that's that.

What I will say is that for the crew to survive so long behind enemy lines does seem pretty remarkable, to the point where I guess we really are meant to see Red Squad as Really, Really Extraordinary. Maybe Watters' intense implicit censorship (his locking up Jake as quickly as he does really does suggest that he would have cracked down quickly if anyone spoke seriously against him) and charisma and the ship's elite crew did somehow keep the ship going. If this were believable, and we got a sense of how they did this besides gusto and enthusiasm, the episode's tragedy might come through okay. Still, you know, it's one hell of a bold claim that the Valiant could survive eight months behind enemy lines with no cloak and (at least for the last little while) a maximum speed of Warp 3.2, based on those class III probes which masked their signature (which is not used regularly because...), and I don't buy it.

The real open question then is why Nog falls for Red Squad so badly; some of it is certainly that he wanted to be a part of them back in "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost." But I dunno, he has since worked on DS9 and the actual Defiant with actual officers. Can he not tell the difference? That he finds Jake's lack of commitment to duty frustrating builds on some of their previous interactions, but he should surely recognize that Watters' pill problem is an issue or that Jake should be able to speak to whoever he wants (if not necessarily while they're on duty). Before the opening to s6, I could see Nog's gung-ho-ness leading him into this spot, but he's been on real missions, and been behind enemy lines before. He should know that after months away from being refit, Sisko would get the Defiant out of there with its information rather than try to do everything himself.

The acting and writing is totally unconvincing and the episode makes a full case that it doesn't need to. It is pretty bad. I think 1 star.

"...and the episode makes a full case that it doesn't need to" -- what I mean is, the episode presents an argument that blindly following orders and believing you can do anything despite lack of experience is wrong. Which, yeah. Got it.

Funny how Nova Squad gets punished for causing the deaths of some crew mates because of reckless behavior, but Red Squad gets posthumously rewarded with medals and a news article making them out to be "heroes". Broken aesop much?

Jammer got this one wrong. And I don't just mean I disagree with him about it being a watchable episode; I've actually always found it fun and novel as a Star Trek outing. I mean he got the intent of the episode wrong regarding Red Squad. They are wrong, were always wrong, and never for one instant had a viable point of view. *At first* we're not sure because we don't know what's been going on, but every single thing we learn about them ought to make us realize they are, just as Jake said, deluded dangerous children.

The Captain taking stims barely scratches the surface, although it does bespeak the fact that he needs to control everything and won't go to sleep. What becomes very alarming is when they tell Jake to avoid talking with the crew; that's when we ought to realize that something sinister is afoot. In time we learn that the ship is not being operated under Federation principles, as it is little more than a dictatorship with a very charismatic leader. The Captain's EXO is evidence of this, as she must enforce his law while he can play being the good guy. Once they put Jake in prison for saying his opinion we can pretty well realize this may as well be a Cardassian ship. We're shown just enough to make us realize that this ship has been a dictatorship all along, since we're told rather quickly that the crew is apparently forbidden to cry or express emotion of any kind (let alone dissent). It's unlikely that most of the cadets would have ever agreed to stay behind enemy lines for 8 months if they hadn't essentially been forced into it. Should we have any doubts that the Captain's choices for senior staff were probably those who would be most loyal to him? Note the lack of senior officers around willing to challenge his decisions.

I think the crux of what we're supposed to understand about this crew is spoken by Jake in the mess hall during the Hitler Youth meeting (which is what it is). When he tells them, correctly, that a decorated hero like his father would never do something this reckless, he was dead-on correct, period end of story. There is not anything controversial about it. The only thing that IS confusing is that the Captain is so damned confident and charming that we want to believe him, which puts him about in the same place as Dukat in terms of how much his charisma ought to inspire our trust.

When Collins, at the end, says that her Captain was a great man, we're supposed to be looking at a child evaluating her big-brother type mentor who just got her entire class killed for no reason and who lost the Federation a battleship during wartime. She is basically in shock, a total basket case, and still suffering from cognitive dissonance delusions about the rightness of what Red Squad was doing. That Nog (and the director) gave her statement any credence was probably a mistake on the part of the script, because it had none whatsoever.

Overall I see this entertaining tale as being about the dangers of introducing young people to a militant education. It can turn bright young stars into little dictators and make them think they're some kind of superior race like Khan and his people. Did anyone watching the episode note the similarity of the pride and sense of superiority Red Squad exhibits and compare this to the Jem'Hadar, who have also been taught that they're a superior race? I think it's no accident. The episode strikes me as being both about the dangers of training young people to be proud killers, as well as the horrors of war in general where the young generation inevitably is the one thrown into the fray and damaged irreparably because of it (see: Full Metal Jacket).

Agree Peter G.. Nice review.

The only good bug is a dead bug.

Wow! I've disagreed with Jammer before many times on episodes, but this has to take the cake.

William B and Peter G. have basically said everything that needs to be said here, but I'll still ramble on. :-P There is absolutely no ambiguity here at all. Red Squad was indeed a group of "delusional fanatics looking for martyrdom." Or, maybe better put, they were fanatics with delusions of godhood. About the only thing "Valiant" has going in it's favor (aside from the acting by Lofton, Eisenberg and McDonogh - Collins), which I will give it credit for, is that it shows the utter failings of AbramsTrek and it's desire to have cadets running the show with next to no problems.

I will say that I'm glad the original idea for the episode was scraped in favor of what we ended up getting. At first, it was planned for this to be a Jake and Kira story, not a Jake and Nog one. Jake would be the one to be taken in by Watters and his Red Squad crew while Kira served as the voice of reason. Having Nog be the one taken in makes little sense as it is (shouldn't he know better since he's, you know, an actual officer?!), but having Jake be taken in by these fools makes no sense at all. And can you imagine Watters and Farris (the XO with a stick shoved so fully up her ass that the tip must be behind her breasts) trying to pull that nonsense in the Ready Room on Kira? The moment these little pipsqueaks pulled phasers on her and tried to put her in the brig, you know what would happen? I'll tell you what would happen - they would all very quickly find those phasers wedged firmly up their urethrae as they sat crowded with the rest of Red Squad in that tiny brig while Kira single-handedly piloted the ship back to DS9 with Watters crying in a corner like the little bitch he was.

As an aside - exactly how did Red Squad manage to stay in the academy in the first place? Aren't these the same people who helped Admiral Leyton commit acts of treason against the Federation?! I suppose you could say that Leyton took the fall alone in order to protect everyone else involved, but it would have been nice to have some explanation. This is what makes Nog being taken in by Watters so easily so absurd. Nog knows they were involved in Leyton's attempted coup. What the hell is he doing working with these people?!

But what really blows my mind about "Valiant" is that we spend the entire episode seeing EXACTLY how Red Squad is off the reservation. The crew isn't allowed to talk about home, they aren't allowed to cry, they aren't allowed to dissent, Watters is a clear dictator who likes to have his second-in-command play bad-cop so he can be the good-cop (remind anybody of someone else, like - oh, I don't know - DUKAT?!), Watters spies on the crew, they tell Jake to watch events unfold and then get pissy when he does, Watters is a damn drug addict (who gets aggressive even someone dares to even fucking notice his habit), etc. But then we end the episode with the sole surviving member of Red Squad, Collins, saying that Watters was a great man and fully drinking the Kool Aid. Huh?! I suppose you could say she was suffering from some kind of PTSD, but we get no indication of that. We even have Nog continuing to give credence to Watters and his delusional idiocy by telling Jake to put the Red Squad view in his story. *facepalm*

Oh, and of course there's the opening scene in Quark's Bar which serves no other purpose than to shit on Quark again. I honestly thought we were done doing this - at least outside of Ferengi "comedy" episodes. They have been treating Quark with a fair amount of respect this season, even having him be instrumental in saving the Alpha Quadrant in "Sacrifice of Angels". Now, when Odo realizes that Quark is in love with Dax, what do we get? Quark's face rubbed in shit for no reason. Anybody remember episodes like "Crossfire" and "His Way", when Quark went out of his way to help Odo with his feelings for Kira. While, in order to repay those kindnesses, the writers have Odo just laugh in Quark's face about his romantic problems concerning Dax. *groan!*

And so ends another record-breaking stretch of above-average episodes. We haven't had an episode that wasn't above-average since Season Five's "Children of Time". That's 26 episodes! A full season's worth! Talk about impressive. It's a shame it had to end, especially with such a dud as "Valiant". And it only gets worse with the next episode, doesn't it?!

2/10

@Luke - You've convinced me to disagree with you. The mental image you paint of the Kira version IS better than this episode!

@Luke

I was under the impression that all the members of Red Squad may have gotten expelled for their actions in "Homefront" but Red Squad itself was populated with fresh new cadets (maybe it's because different actors were used?).

As for your broader review that there's no ambiguity in this episode, I would point to the fact that Watters and crew *did* successfully defeat a Cardassian battle cruiser and carry out a mission to collect data on a dangerous Dominion ship. In the end they were overconfident, but at least they had some reason to be.

I will note that the producers deliberately included the Red Squad member who spilled the beans to Sisko in Homefront in the Valiant crew, and that it was meant to show that this is the same Red Squad that pulled off the sabotage on Earth's power grid. The episode, of course, failed to incorporate this information and let us know that the main responsibility for Red Squad being so irresponsible might have been their tutelage under Admiral Leyton. However in terms of their all being dismissed for their actions, it should be noted that they were acting not only under a commanding officer's orders, but that of an admiral. And not just any admiral, but the head of Starfleet Security. They were entirely blameless in that regard, as they couldn't know they were committing acts of treason; or if they did know they had the cover of saying they couldn't disobey orders.

@Peter Giser

Thanks, that clears it up. It's funny that they wanted the actors there but made no effort to connect the characters to "Homefront".

This episode was essentially Taps in SPAAACE, with about every cadet playing the Tom Cruise role.

The episode has a real "Lord of the Flies" feel about it. I remember the end of that movie where the professional soldier is on the beach as a symbol of adult maturity and control, just as when you see the Defiant crew before they pick up the escape pod.

This is so unbelievable I can not believe it was rated so highly.

The young captain telling Jake not to participate was cringe worthy and downright nonsensical. Reporters talk to soldiers in war time as long as reporters in war time have existed. That's not like Jake acting like he can run engineering he's simply asking if somebody thinks of home. Seriously CNN and NatGeo would ask similar questions.

Secondly that captain remirez would seriously tell the cadets "to continue the mission" not "get your asses home asap". Is just unbelievable and stupid.

@Caedus,

I think you need to consider that the episode is told from multiple point of view, especially those of Jake and Nog. What you're seeing isn't a balanced account of reality. In my opinion the episode is about fascist mentality and how it can warp perception like the Hitler Youth did. Jake's perspective is therefore "Federation" while Nog's is that of those drinking the Kool Aid. I believe you should interpret the Captain's actions from that perspective, in which case, yes, what he told Jake was outrageous, and yet scarily believable.

Regarding Captain Ramirez, my guess would be that the story about receiving the order to continue the mission was a complete fabrication and that the Captain and his XO were lying to the crew about it. He was enough of a megalomaniac to say anything it took to take command and not give it up. The end of the story isn't some piece of misfortune but was rather the inevitable outcome for that ship.

I always skip this. I try to watch it, but it's impossible. I can't stand Nog. Jake is a pointless character too with a daft "reporter" job to keep him in the show. And then we are forced to believe these naive teens are running a star ship. It's cringe inducing. Unwatchable.

Bravestarr
Fri, Apr 4, 2014, 12:29pm (UTC -6)
Ah yes, Nog. DS9's version of Wesley Crusher. Does anyone else get irked by how much the producers focus on this little fucker?
----------------

HAHAHAHA! YES! ME!

Nog is by far the most annoying and useless and shoehorned character in DS9. He's just there to give the actor a job. I can't stand any scene he is in - and the writing for the character is piss poor!

DLPB: "Nog is by far the most annoying and useless and shoehorned character in DS9."

Rom and Leeta appreciate your endorsement. And Vic Fontaine.

"On the topic of them all standing shouting 'red squad' [...] it just seemed very American to me, and reminded me of chants of 'USA! USA!'"

You've hit the main reason why I thought this was a ship full of absolute dickheads.

As for stars, I actually though the half-star-rated "Demon" (I'm watching Voyager concurrently) was at least the equal of this over-rated episode...

@MsV: Nog made me sick in this episode, when he saw "Red Squad" he put on his blinders and didn't take them off until everyone was being killed.
---
Rewatched this again after two years to see if Nog was as annoying and unrepentant as I remembered. Yup, confirmed. Also that Dorian girl irritated me too in her last scene, where she's still in blatant denial about Red Squad and the megalomaniac captain. I still think we should have gotten a scene where Sisko heartily dresses down the two of them.

And if I were in Jake's shoes I would never have spoken to Nog again, seeing as his foolhardiness/need to be accepted in Red Squad/repeated denial very nearly got Jake killed. However near-death experiences do seem to be a common occurrence on DS9, so Jake's probably used to it by now.

Thoughts at large:

Why was everyone white? And either human or Vulcan?

Weird to think of the fallout from the best and the brightest of the Star Fleet class of 2417, or whatever, being killed. Who will they have to promote to Admiral in 30 years?

Since they have been behind enemy lines since the war started and maintaining radio silence, they actually have no idea what is going on in the universe. For all they know a peace treaty has been negotiated. Now I'm picturing the Gilligan's Island episode where they found the Japanese guy who thought he was still fighting World War II.

It also reminded me of the episode in an early season where Sisko and O'brien get trapped on a utopia planet where the crazy leader has rigged it so no one can escape and they all have to live as subsistence farmers.

The main point of the show is that judgment takes time to develop. But it's interesting that the same is not true of technical skills. Anyone with a couple of years of college can apparently operate a starship or be a doctor.

The one woman who lived -- her survivor's guilt/PTSD will be unbearable. I assume she will spend the rest of her life growing orchids and baking bread.

Why does electricity always seem to arc out of control panels to officers on the bridge? Does the electricity have a brain? Is it trying to kill them?

'Now I'm picturing the Gilligan's Island episode where they found the Japanese guy who thought he was still fighting World War II.'

----

Uhmm was that the Voyager episode where they found Amelia Earhart? 'The 37s' I think it was called.

I have to say this, I really did like this episode when it aired. Also, (now I was 21 when it aired), I thought the 2 girls (the chief and first officer) were INCREDIBLY attractive! I am shocked no one else did-seriously, I thought they were prettier than anyone on DS9 before or after. I guess that's a minority opinion

It's perfectly normal to send an ensign and his best friend to deliver a high-level diplomatic message from the leaders of the Federation to the Nagus. In the middle of a war. Without backup.

Also, Jake-o has grown up to be quite the A-hole. No wonder his dad seemed to have resigned himself to letting the prophets kill him in the last episode.

Uhmm was that the Voyager episode where they found Amelia Earhart? 'The 37s' I think it was called.
----------------------------------

No he is talking about Gilligan's Island like he said

So the Dominion had special Adult-Seeking Missiles that left only the teenagers alive on the Valiant? Even if the adults were manning all the stations and the kids were hanging about in their quarters, that's some precision. Also, if enough damage was done to kill all the adults, how were these kids able to make all the repairs? With no help? When DS9 falls apart any time Chief O'Brien isn't on the station?

Kind of an intriguing idea to come across a ship manned by teenagers, but the war-time plot makes it too unsupportable and unbelievable. Also, much of the Valiant crew's dialogue was waaaaay to mature and uncharacteristic of teenagers--even mature elite military teenagers. It seemed written for mini adults. Very stilted mini adults.

Also, I was looking forward to seeing Jake squelch around Ferenginar, so I'm kind of sad they never got there.

One thing I found amusing about this episode is the scene toward the end where Nog and the female survivor go to release Jake from his cell. Jake asks "What happened?" Nog's response "We failed". Gee Nog, don't you think Jake has figured out that much?

People who say this episode sucked need to stop drinking tap water- you guys have missed very key pieces of information in this episode.

1) Red Squad exists = fact.

As we saw in Paradise Lost, Red Squad is not only allowed to exist (I believe all "elite" groups within groups are destructive) but they are given more than extra drills and training, they are given covert missions.

It's a travesty that Starfleet Academy allows this because despite all the checks and balances you put in place, an elite group within a group fosters hubris and divided loyalty.

2) Red Squad got to be on the Valiant under close watch of senior officers = fact.

This is where a lot of you haters of the episode get it twisted.

I don't doubt that Watters was promoted to field captain by the last dying member of the senior staff but I think that was only done to inspire Watters to get the Valiant back to the nearest Starbase by putting the burden of his classmates on his shoulders.

But did Watters do that? No. He decided of his own volition to rally the troops and keep the Valiant flying on a recon mission.

It's highly likely that in the beginning his classmates would've broken down and begged for an immediate return but both the "faux-promotions" of their new "captain" coupled with the peer pressure of not failing Red Squad (ie- "maybe you're not Red Squad material after all") would've brought them quickly in line.

Watters has parallels to Stalin here. When Stalin took power, everybody knew Trotsky was next in line to succeed Lenin but Stalin had charisma and fear on his side and everybody fell in line.

3) could these youngsters run a ship after 8 months?

Yes, yes they could. Kids their age fought in both great wars and it forces you to grow up mighty quick. These kids were the best of the academy, 6 months would've turned all that theory into somewhat competent practical skills.

As can be seen by the warp issue, there's only so far they could go but they had the second most dangerous ship in Starfleet at their command (only second to the Defiant because the Valiant is the "vanilla version" and lacks the cloaking device).

This was a wonderful episode about the dangerous of elite groups within groups and about child soldiers.

3&1/2 stars - watch it again and watch it closely.

Maybe I am forgetting some details about this episode but weren't the cadets supposed to be in their 20s? Young but hardly child soldiers.

@Jason R.

I think so, I always read them as college juniors or seniors which would place them in the 20 ~ 21 range. And if Wesley Crusher exemplifies them, they're probably all child prodigies to begin with.

On further reflection, I think my previous comment was in error.

After all, they are trying to get off the ship as quickly as possible. So Nog doesn't have time to give Jake a detailed explanation about what happened.

"We failed" is concise and to the point.

2 stars. I don't care about an episode featuring a bunch of smarty pants "kids"

2 1/2 stars for me. I disagree wholeheartedly with all the extremely negative comments on this episode and agree with Jammer for the most part.
A lot of people seem to be taking Watters' story of what happened with Cpt. Ramirez at face value.
For all we know Ramirez just told Watters with his dying breath, "Get the ship home, take command..." and no one was really close enough to hear what he said clearly except Watters, who decided to live out his Captain fantasy instead of taking the ship home. That wouldn't be out of character for him based on what we see in this episode.
Call it speculation if you like, but we are never shown what really happened with Ramirez so to blame the writers for what could be a lie by Watters is silly.

It's hard to buy that Sisko would let Nog and Jake go to Ferenginar alone in a runabout when basically all of space is a warzone.

Decent episode here -- really well done with the battle scene and the Valiant getting destroyed. It managed to generate the right poignancy and pass judgment on young captain Watters. I was almost expecting the Defiant to magically show up for the rescue, but glad that didn't happen -- but they were deep in Dominion territory anyway.

The problem is the whole Red Squad thing -- seems every time some elite cadets are featured in a Trek episode, they manage to screw up big time. And I laughed when they all chanted "Red Squad, Red Squad..."

Capt. Watters displays poor judgment going after a big Dominion ship and he seems to make these command decisions rather too summarily -- just going on hope rather than really technically studying the problem. Jake plays an important role here saying what Ben Sisko would do, although one can see why the pompous Red Squad would ignore him. Putting him in the brig was excessive.

Nog looks at the Valiant crew with rose-colored glasses -- good conflict between Jake and Nog about the crew. Here it's serious unlike some of their prior childish conflicts. Also good to see in the end how Nog's attitude has changed after the experience -- he very easily realized he could be dead and that Watters was a bad captain.

I liked the role of the young officer who treats Jake -- shows how green she is missing home, crying. But the first officer girl was super-wooden and rigid -- quite annoying, but perhaps meant to be the super-military type in Red Squad.

And what was most of the teaser for? Showing Dax cleaning up Quark's drink replicator while he stares at her married ass?

A strong 2.5 stars for "Valiant" -- a bit contrived on how the Red Squad got control of the Valiant for 8 months and not contacting Star Fleet. I can't see anybody else in their right mind going after the Dominion ship, but the lesson is well-taken and executed, albeit quite costly.

0 out of any rating. Pretty stupid bad writing. Acting captain douche-bag should had give command to Nog as the only real officer on-board, starting from there everything went downhill. Besides, a Defiant-class attacking a gargantuan Dominion ship (that happened to be a super-secret, and without guarding fleet)??? Come on! No matter how stupidly delusional you are, there's no way a small boat, no matter how well armed it is, could take down a destroyer (in present times analogy).
In conclusion, I agree with all pointed out by others before me, one of the worst episodes in ST history, just above the holodeck/suit episodes (and of course, Threshold...)

Hello Everyone!

Let's see, where to begin? Ah, with the last message of the Dominion vessel: Attacked by Federation warship... *boom*. And 8 months strained credulity for me. Perhaps if they were hiding in an asteroid field or something. I realize there are less ships behind the lines in open space, but Nog/Jake crossed the line into Dominion territory in no time. I'd think the Valiant would've been spotted before this, perhaps by the Dominion raiding party that was going to attack the Starbase (which, thinking again, must have been pretty close to the border). Oh, and if some of the Dominion ships survived their attack on the station, wouldn't they have gone looking for their other ship, or find what destroyed it? (Hopefully they scuttled the runabout, it hadn't blown up yet, had it?)

Didn't they say in an earlier episode that two officers are required for any mission? Especially one to see the Nagus...

Heh, Watters gets a battlefield promotion, and then it's battlefield promotions for Everyone!

I really thought Nog was going to say something about their chain of command and where he should actually fit into it, until he was told he was going to be a Lt. Commander and Chief Engineer. Then his eyes lit up, he sucked in a little air, and said thank you sir, I'll be in engineering if you need me. Then at the end, he realizes he'd over-stepped himself, and by not being a voice of reason, aided in the destruction of the ship. Oh, and weren't his pips for Lt. Jg (one full and one dark) instead of Lt. Commander (two full and one dark)?

I really think Nog was sucked in by his need to be accepted, as if he wanted to prove himself, and when he was given a promotion and a great deal of responsibility, he attempted to be the best at it he could be. And that clouded his judgement. I am wondering why he wasn't in engineering during the attack though. LaForge or Torres would be down in the guts when the action was thick and heavy, not doing things from the bridge.

There was such a long pause when the Captain went down... like nobody knew what to do. The Commander should have been up immediately, but instead sat there with a big arrow pointing towards her head and a balloon reading "Not Ready". I'd actually thought Nog would wait a moment to see if they'd get over their shock, then take command and tell them to get the heck out of there. Instead they wasted precious seconds getting pummeled from the rear as they sailed along...

Lastly, I think, I'd recently seen a show where someone who was abducted and held for 18 months defended their abductor, because of something psychological.
Somehow, that struck me as I watched Dorian defend Watters. He wouldn't let them go home (or even talk about it), but had kept them safe and made them feel like a valuable part of the team, etc. Perhaps at this point, there is no way she can find any real faults in him, because of the mental conditioning...

Any accurate or inaccurate thoughts in the above post are purely coincidental and may be explained away by random chance... :)

RT

This episode is miserable. It wants to be DS9’s Lower Decks, but awful performances from everyone and a stupid premise kills it.

The asshole captain and the bitchy first officer were pretty much the SJWs of DS9, wanting to control everything and everyone so much that they give Jake and Collins a lecture because she expressed a human emotion and then they put Jake in a holding cell because of his opinion... they make Captain Edward Jellico from "Chain of Command" look tame... hell, I'll take the Borg kids from VOY over them any day.

Because they were written so horrible, I felt nothing for them after they were killed, they were not simply following orders, like Nog they actually believed the captain was right and since Collins was so brainwashed by him, she tries to make it seem that Watters was a great man, while Nog was right that he was a bad captain... but Watters was no hero... far from it. They could have written these Jr. officers as flawed and complex, giving them a better backstory and reasons as to why they acted like this... but instead they were just insufferable brain dead brats.

The episode seems like it wants to be a mix between "The First Duty" and "Lower Decks"... but it fails.

We're supposed to believe that the Valiant AND the Starbase were both this close to the border, and no one on the ship questioned why they weren't stopping there?

The only person I hate more than Jake is the First Officer. She comes off as intentionally precocious. I wouldn't be able to listen to her without telling her to shut up.

Hated the First Officer. Was glad when she got killed. They were all annoying prissy arrogant wankers. The Chief Petty Officer was a whiny crybaby.

Not an AWFUL episode, I found Red Squad really annoying and I very much wanted them to get what was coming to them. However seeing the ship destroyed was a bit harsh. It would have been more enjoyable and satisfying to have Captain Waters and his condescending XO get court marshaled.

Also, it was WAY too convenient that EVERY escape pod was destroyed EXCEPT Jake & Nog's. Like, really?

Sometimes Jammer really misses the mark. This is one of those times. Real piece of drivel, this episode. Thank God for the comments. And none of that "It's a good episode because it sparks controversy". That's easy to do, this eoisode with facist highschool kids running a ship is just poorly acted, bad piece of writing and not worthy of Star Trek.

I found the plot increasingly implausible. About halfway through I simply turn down the volume because it was so predictable.
On a positive note, this is the first episode where I really appreciated the character of Nog. I could see the similarity between him and Worf - both the only species to wear the uniform, and both taking an extremely serious approach to their duty, because they know that it's already hard to be taken seriously, and they have to push it to the limit where there's never a question of their dedication.

Sometimes I think people like to trash an episode because they get an ego boost from being contrarian, not because the episode deserves it. Like this episode, which is a tragedy that's perversely enjoyable, cast well, and executed well. I do agree there should have been at least ONE other escape pod that got away safely. I agree Ashley Brianne McDonogh was great. Finally, Courtney Peldon plays a much different character than her apparent personality on IMDB. I would think the military-fascistic role was an interesting change for her, even if you agree with III's assessment above, which was hilarious.

I've never seen an interview with Ron Moore about this particular episode, but having seen an interview with him about the TNG episode The First Duty, I'm inclined to suspect that he really thought The Valiant presented a real moral conundrum that viewers would find challenging, with much to be said for both sides, and maybe more to be said for the amok cadets' side.

He thought it would be wrong for Wesley Crusher to "rat" on his friends, apparently more wrong than for them to throw their dead friend under the bus after pressuring him to go along with a stupid stunt they knew was against the rules for a reason. He was on Locarno's side, mocking Picard's "speech about duty and honor." I think he probably approached The Valiant with the idea that the cadets were doing basically the right thing and it just didn't work out. In that sense, Jammer's reaction of "Reality is somewhere in between" probably comes closer to what was intended than most of the commenters' reactions.

But Jammer's view is not mine. I just wish Jake had been given better lines to argue the anti-stupidity position.

@Trish

Yeah, I get the idea too that we are supposed to sympathize with Red Squad on some level - perhaps something like wow, look how long these kids kept things together on their own during wartime. Of course it all crumbles before our eyes, but I think a part of us, vis-à-vis Nog and his Starfleet enthusiasm, wanted them to succeed.

And so, Starfleet tried to create its own Jem'hadars: an elite of brainless "victory-is-life-sort-of-ketracel-pills-addicted" jerks. Lol, "Captain" Watters... OMQ! OMQ!!!
Do you remember their first appearance in "Paradise lost"? That cadet with a moron-like smile, saying to Sisko "We sabotaged Earth's whatever network, it was a success! Fuck yeah!", not even asking to his brain what kind of crap he just did... "Hey Ben, mission accomplished ain't it? Gimme five! Hurr durr..."
Luckily for Starfleet, Federation, Galaxy and Gene's eternal peace, the REAL Jem'hadars fixed it, TERMINATING the "Red Squad" experience.
As wroten above by Ospero, "I believe I am not supposed to yell "Yes! Go for it!" when I see a Starfleet ship destroyed"... But is what I did. And especially when that stupid bitter brat (1st officer) jumped out from the chair. ]:-)

Not a perfect episode, but good enough. Star Trek is a somewhat authoritarian show in that the chain-of-command is often seen as absolute and as an end unto itself. Where is democracy in the Trek universe? Why do we never see the characters voting on anything?

This is a nice change-of-pace episode that critically examines the chain-of-command and its authoritarian tangents. The medals, the obsession with rank, the absolute commands...it was great to see a critical light cast on these story telling elements that traditionally Trek rarely challenges.

Well every series to date has focused on Starfleet which is a military organization, not a democracy. DS9 was the first series that had a few true civilians as regulars (Quark, Garek etc....) but even that show was largely focused on starfleet.

But funny you mention it, it occurred to me: do we know that the Federation *is* a democracy? Has there ever been a single reference to voting or elections? I am drawing blank.

I guess political campaigning and those machinations would spoil Rodenberry's perfect future.

In "Errand of Mercy":
KOR: Hardly. They were quite important to us, but they can be replaced. You of the Federation, you are much like us.
KIRK: We're nothing like you. We're a democratic body.

Weirdly enough, Kor again, in "Once More Unto the Breach":
KOR: Worf, you've been living among this democratic rabble for too long.

Now, what kind of democracy is not really clean, but it seems to be some sort of representative democracy (Jaresh-Inyo represented his planet before becoming UFP President). We are later told that Jaresh-Inyo is not longer president, but not if he resigned, died or was voted out.

That this was never so much as mentioned in all of Trek save one or two oblique references in TOS and DS9 tells you alot about how we feel about Democracy here in the west where Trek was born.

That no one in the history of Trek has ever alluded to elections, voting, or any aspect of civilian political life, despite allegedly existing in a democracy is quite telling.

Does Picard vote? I guess not.

I think Rodenberry and his successors considered politics, especially in a democracy, inherently dirty, unworthy of a utopian future. Yet no one could conceive of a palatable alternative so they just swept that whole concept under a rug. There is another good reason why Trek always focused so much on Starfleet, a military system. Democracy is messy, sometimes ugly and ever so human - the antithesis of the Trekkian vision of the future (at least according to Roddenberry I think)

If Starfleet is supposed to be the military arm, it has powers way above and beyond anything seen in any military we've seen so far on Earth. We've seen it administering, adjudicating, and in some cases governing. Why is Sisko, for example, involved in diplomacy at all? Beyond coordinating a military presence with the aim of defending Bajor, he shouldn't be involved at all.

But Star Trek has always painted a universe in which Starfleet controls practically everything, and that's why it's more fantasy than serious sci-fi. Almost any other series - Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, hell even Star Wars, demonstrate much better how things will be organized should we develop interstellar travel.

One gets the impression that Starfleet, which has been described as a "combined service," has somehow absorbed a lot of the bureaucracy of the Federation. Which is certainly odd. People focus on how militarized the Federation seems to be, but I'd also like to draw attention to the bureaucratic side of things. It seems like a triumph of the liberal-democratic ideal that efficiency, management, planning and bureaucracy will build a better, more equitable society (a la Max Weber).

Good point, Circus Man, and let's not forget all those ambassadors who show up and start barking orders at Captains and Commanders. If Federation ambassadors are chosen by the civilian government (like they are in democratic countries of our time) then they have an amazing amount of power over the military - certainly more than that of ambassadors of our time.

But yeah, Star Trek's are stories to date are exclusively revolving around Starfleet (not the Federation) so it's very hard to gauge what the mechanisms of the civilian government are. There's an episode of DS9, "Accession" which explains that the Federation does not admit worlds that practice certain levels of tyranny (like a caste system) so it follows that the Federation is pro-democracy.

@ Chrome,

To be fair, I think what we're seeing in those cases is civilians being put in command of missions being carried out by the military. I never got the sense in TOS and TNG that non-Starfleet people have direct authority over Starfleet officers.

@Peter G.

Yeah, it's certainly a bit confusing. For example, in "The Adversary" Ambassador Krajensky is giving intelligence reports and orders on behalf of "the Federation" and "Federation interests" so it's hard to imagine exactly how that command structure works in regards to Sisko. It's almost implied that Starfleet and the Federation are interchangeable, but that doesn't seem to be the case in every episode.

@ Chrome,

Maybe it would be easiest to think of it as the ambassadors (or whoever else) having a mission to do, and being assigned staff and resources to get it done. This can include aides, helpers, various staff, along with tools like transport, staplers, and everything else they need. And sometimes they need a starship and its crew, which gets assigned to their mission as part of the project. The ambassador would obviously be in charge of the mission, seeing as the starship is just there to assist them, but strictly speaking they do not command the ship and its crew, even though they are authorized to give commands to the Captain (and I assume, *only* to the Captain) as to how the ship must serve the mission. What probably gets confusing is that in Star Trek the ambassadors are always also riding on the starship while giving the Captain those orders, which makes it feel like they're in charge of the ship or something, when really they could have been anywhere at all giving those mission orders. But being a passenger on the ship is only incidental (as they do need to get where they're going), and is more than anything a contrivance of writing a TV script with unified sets and locations.

The line for me was drawn pretty clearly in Peak Performance, when Picard makes it crystal clear to Kolrami what the difference is between commanding the mission and commanding the ship.

@Peter G.

"Maybe it would be easiest to think of it as the ambassadors (or whoever else) having a mission to do, and being assigned staff and resources to get it done."

Right, but that still doesn't establish who authorized the mission. Did the Federation council tell Starfleet to handle the mission or is Starfleet acting on its own? The DS9 case I mentioned appears to indicate the former.

"The line for me was drawn pretty clearly in Peak Performance, when Picard makes it crystal clear to Kolrami what the difference is between commanding the mission and commanding the ship."

So you think all ambassadors are invested with the same level of command authority as Kolrami? That doesn't sound right as an ambassador's duties would vary from mission to mission and Kolrami in that case was just there to oversee a training exercise. Also, the Federation becomes much more militant post-Borg and Dominion, so the need for ambassadors with military-focused orders would increase.

@ Chrome,

"Right, but that still doesn't establish who authorized the mission. Did the Federation council tell Starfleet to handle the mission or is Starfleet acting on its own? The DS9 case I mentioned appears to indicate the former."

I expect that Starfleet's highest officers would be in regular conference with the Federation Council and President, and that they'd confer on such things, but overall I guess my impression is that missions such as we're describing are assigned by the Federation, and dispensed to Starfleet to carry out. But for all we know the Secretary of Starfleet is *on* the Federation council, so they may do more than just communicate with each other. But yeah, I always had the idea that the civilian government was in charge, and that whenever we see a Starfleet admiral passing down orders they're just a middleman.

"So you think all ambassadors are invested with the same level of command authority as Kolrami? That doesn't sound right as an ambassador's duties would vary from mission to mission and Kolrami in that case was just there to oversee a training exercise."

It probably depends on the importance of the mission, no? As you mention, it might seem strange to assign such authority to someone on a training exercise, unless Kolrami himself is confused as to exactly the extent of his authority (which he is shown to be). I think what's odd about the example in Peak Performance is that the entire assignment is a military one, in which case why isn't a Starfleet officer overseeing it? That's where we get into the exceptional Kolrami, who it seems is being given access to military intelligence and so forth due to the high esteem given to his tactical brilliance. I would imagine that normally such exercises would be conducted by an Admiral or something. But whoever's overseeing it would need complete authority, in order to adjudicate over the efficiency and in keeping the rules of the exercise. But of course such authority would have nothing to do with any situations that arise unrelated to the exercise, such as an actual attack, in which case Kolrami has no real authority at all. It would seem that his authority was far more limited than he tried to put out.

Interesting discussion. One thing I wanted to add is that starship captains would have to have a lot of autonomy in whatever system the Federation has, just because the Federation is so big and it would be impossible for them to consult Starfleet on every little thing, let alone expect an instant response. (In TOS "Balance of Terror", for instance, Kirk had to decide whether or not to go after the Romulan ship and risk starting a war, and he didn't hear back from Starfleet until after it was over and they basically said "we'll support whatever decision you make")

Thoughts?

@ NCC-1701-Z,

Agreed. TOS is the only series to deeply inspect the sheer awesome power Starship Captains have at their disposal, with the authority to go along with it. It's like having an Emperor with an army flying around in space. That's why the system is so contingent on Federation principles being so ingrained in the Captains, because only their own morality (and that of their crew) could restrain them from unleashing havoc. There is no direct measure in place to prevent mayhem if a Captain goes bad, as we see several times. I think this is part of why the show centered around how the entire planet needs to be cleaned up before we can wonder about why our leaders are always so corrupt. They are, because we are.

In a metaphoric sense, each of us is like a Captain, going around possibly having huge effects on the world and those around us, where the only safety measure in place is our own conscience, and the quality of our public life. In a decadent public environment the only stopgap is that the individual will rise above it, or that if they significantly break the law they'll be punished after the fact; but that won't stop them from causing harm first, and won't stop them at all if the nature of the harm isn't illegal.

In TNG it often seemed unthinkable that Starfleet officers could go bad, but in TOS it was not only thinkable but an ongoing problem for which the only solution is to keep striving to perfect ourselves.

Remember, Star Trek was partly inspired by the Horatio Hornblower stories, which dramatized era when ship captains often acted as explorers and ambassadors to parts of the world that were far away from Europe and little understood by Europeans.

You can see why things would be similar in the vastness of space. The problem is that in TOS & TNG, we are regularly shown near-instant communication, and the ability to get back to Earth in little time. Given that, it's hard to see why there wouldn't be constant communication with a civilian department overseeing them, with civilian specialists being sent to them as needed. It really only makes sense if you accept that the Federation has let Starfleet take over that function, with a small crew of civilian ambassadors to do the really high-level stuff.

Watching and commenting:

--Quark's in love with Jadzia? Since when? Some hints he thinks she's hot stuff, sure, but in love?

--Jake and Nog, in their vulnerable little runabout, being pursued by the Jem Hadar. Yikes.

--A Federation ship full of teenagers- Red Squad.

--Greatness gets thrust upon Nog.

--This Captain looks like he should be playing an arrogant frat boy in Revenge of the Nerds.

--"You know, the sun only comes up once a month on the moon." "I felt like I met God every morning." I guess she means once a month. Still pretty often, for meeting God.

--This young lady playing Dorian Collins doing a nice job.

--Good God. This is disturbing. Dr House - I mean Captain Watters - is big on the "ketracel white."

--I'm suddenly remembering Lord of the Flies.

--Not a bad story. Not a great story. Some nice character development for Nog.

Having read review and commentary:

Lots of disagreement, I see. Here's how it struck me:

--From the opening sequence, which features Jadzia doing a job that Nog should be doing, the theme is set: How people behave when they get "down in the muck," when they have to step out of their shoes into less comfortable shoes. When they have to step down or step up from their usual perch.

--Jadzia, a mature woman whose unusual replicator-fixing assignment carries no danger or particular consequence, does fine. She doesn't mind getting messy or doing a "lowly job." She's secure and confident in herself, and the assignment itself is not particularly stressful.

--Watters, on the other hand, is an inexperienced young man, stressed to the max. He doesn't have, can't have, the uber-experienced, 300+ year old Jadzia's calm, confidence, and lack of ego, stepping into an unfamiliar role. I think that's why it's Jadzia fixing a replicator in the opener -it's at the total other end of the"unfamiliar role" spectrum.

--Watters is in deep water, way over his head. Unlike Jadzia, he's an insecure young man with something to prove, and he's in an extreme situation. He's so unsure of himself that Jake having one conversation with Dorian scares him, so uncertain he has the ship bugged and Jake arrested for speaking his mind. He's so overwhelmed he's taking drugs to try to keep himself together.

--Watters is a totally overwhelmed person - the wrong person in the wrong role at the wrong time. A bad Captain, as Nog says.

--The ep isn't about military people being arrogant asses, it's about what happens to inexperienced people under mega-stress. It's about what happens when greatness is thrust upon people who aren't ready for it.

Really good comments, Springy. I like this episode a lot.

@springy-

I thought that this episode is about the toxicity of hubris. I suppose this lesson could be applied to the military, it's a more general life lesson. The reason I agree with @wolfstar and really dig this episode is because it drives this point home by obliterating Star Trek conventions. There's no real reason why Red Squad should fail here, narratively speaking-The Enterprise D's defeat of the Borg was probably more incredible, statistically-except for the fact that they're arrogant sods. I think it's a great episode.

Not much happened. Odd for a 43 minute episode to have so much filler. Okay, so the captain pops pills—this leads nowhere. Alright, the first officer thinks the captain is tired—and this is important later? No. And, it’s the big pep talk from the captain before the battle! Then they all die. It’s bad writing.

What bothered me about this episode is that technically speaking, Nog was the ranking officer on the ship since everyone else were cadets. The command was his, and he should have immediately turned the ship around and taken it home. At the end, Nog blames Captain Watters for being a bad Captain when Nog himself is actually responsible for the death of Red Squad via his inaction.

@ Adam,

An interesting idea, but since Waters was named Acting Captain by an actual Captain, that commission would be an official one and therefore Waters was an actual Captain in rank until such a time as a senior officer relieved him of that rank. Now, if all the officers had died, and Waters had assumed command simply by virtue of being the senior cadet, then any officer would indeed outrank him. But unless I'm mistaken I think his rank was made official.

Peter G. is more or less correct.

I was in the military a long time ago and an officer cannot just waltz in and say: I have the highest rank. Everybody has to follow my orders.

Nog wasn't commissioned to take over the Valiant.
In other words an officer with the rank captain doesn't have power over every lower officer everywhere. Even a four star admiral cannot give an order to the lowest solider if that soldier is in a unit that isn't under the command of that four star admiral.
Chain of command. ;)

I think the main problem with any "cadet" story, much like "The first duty", is it brings in not just a couple but a whole whole raft of fresh characters that we have no reason to care about, and who usually are precocious and unlikable. So the only interesting part of the story is how the people we actually care about will respond to them. As in this case we have two young characters, this just ends up feeling like a teen popularity movie with The Jocks of the Valiant and their Lord of The Flies schtick. The First Duty was bearable because it was played out in relief against the sobering influence of Picard, his disappointment in and the interesting dynamic of his father / son relationship with Wesley. With "Valiant" there is little to redeem it with Jake and Nog in the place of Picard and Wesley.

@Tanstaafl Okay, I get you weren't trying to write a review there, but I'm not sure what are you trying to say. Watters taking pills and the latter was showing how his heroic leader persona is an act and he's actually over his head. How is it a bad writing? The whole point is that Watters acts like and convinced his crew they are all great heroes for the sake of his ego. The point of the story is that it's young people pretending to be grown ups in the time of war.

I thought some elements of the story were really clunky and didn't work well. For instance, early in the story you see all the crew wearing phasers. I get that they are trapped behind enemy lines, but they are also trying to emulate Starfleet officers. It may be military tradition to carry sidearms in the world today, but Starfleet is an organization that has a storied reputation for scientific discovery and significant aspirational goals of achieving peaceful unity. Starfleet officers rarely walk around armed outside of security type roles or specific mission requirements. It also is shown right when the conflict between Jake and Waters is beginning so you say to yourself "Oh I see what the writers are doing, they are going to pull phasers on Jake or Nog or both at some point in this episode". Beyond that, if they are going to bother strapping phasers, wouldn't they take the time to strap tricorders as well? Weren't they experiencing pretty serious technical issues with this ship that caused them to be stranded behind enemy lines in the first place? Speaking of those issues, does it seem realistic that leadership would leave the engineer to manage the warp speed crisis for months with literally no sign of progress without providing additional support or micromanaging the problem or at least trying to look into what the hell is taking so long? And for all the Captain's talk of "rising to the occasion" his pick for chief engineer sure seems willing to defer to Nog at the first opportunity without any objections or questions about Nog's plan or attempt to preserve his own position or even to defend his own work. His "to hell with it I suck at this job anyway" attitude rings really hollow and works against the ambition that the writers are trying to imbue in these characters. All of these elements detract from the story itself, and the performance of the First Officer and to a lesser extent the operations officer seem stilted and serve to undermine the otherwise excellent performances by the Captain and Chief Petty Officer.
That said, the episode is most successful where it explores contrast. For instance, after Valiant goes boom there is a scene where the camera focuses on the Defiant bridge. You see an unnamed Lt at the helm and he exudes this aura of calm, professional competence that can only be achieved through experience. I really liked this scene because it effectively spells out the deficits with Valiant's crew whilst telegraphing the tragedy that these otherwise talented people were robbed of the opportunity to realize their aspirations through their missteps and inexperience (with the exception of the CPO who survives).
I think most of the criticisms mentioned on this forum have merit but have been overstated, and for all its flaws this is still a good episode, especially considering the level of controversy and dialogue that it produced here decades after being dropped on the air.

@springy

I thought your comments about Jadzia's experience versus Valiant's crew were spot on.

I also think they missed an important opportunity to connect with the events of paradise lost/homefront arc. As other people here have pointed out they even brought the character from Red Squad who ratted out their participation in Admiral Leyton's false flag plot, so it seems like the writers and casting team consciously planned to incorporate this into the story but failed to ultimately deliver it in the script. It would have been great to have Jake say to Nog "Hey, remember that time Red Squad was instrumental in bringing down the power grid on earth? They are fanatical to the point where they don't think and you shouldn't trust them..." I think this would have been effective and made sense especially since both Jake and Nog were present on Earth when that storyline unfolded.

This episode makes me cringe so hard. From the hammed up awful acting of actors playing Watters, Shepard and especially Peldon, to the directorial choices of Vejar such as showing the console screens PROJECTING on to the cadet's faces (wtf) - I felt bad for all involved.
Every once in a while when I do a series rewatch, I approach this one thinking "ok it can't be THAT bad". Mistake.
Then I promise myself I'll never watch it again.

Valiant

Star trek was big on picking females and black people to be captains. When it came time to cast the role of a confused, drug addicted captain who got his ship destroyed and most of his crew killed who did they bring in?

Christ you people, what the heck is wrong with you?

It's like more than half of you didn't even bother to pay attention at this episode's plot, thinking you're so smart for picking appart, while clearly ignoring basic war-time logic. Not to mention the constant bring of Fascism into the discussion, like this is some kind of commentary on "teh NaZis."

For any you jerkasses dumb enough to think these are child soldiers, then you must have never seen a 20 year old adult in your life.

So these are cadets that have ended up behind enemy lines. Have you forgotten these are still trained soldiers? Some of the best in fact? It's not rare to hear war stories of soldiers who seemingly deny the very existence of death and defeat during wartime, the younger one is, the more likely they are to think of themselves as indestructible in a subconcious level.

Not to mention that it's made quite obvious, as it is explicitly mentioned, that they have been maintaining radio silence since the very beggining, so Star Fleet has no idea they're even there.

I'm just imagining how you people think "Oh if I was there, I'd be shitting my pants like a pussy and I would grab the nearest escape pod." These are soldiers trained for war, caught in a situation, desperate to prove themselves. Christ, grow some balls.

A military tribunal investigation concluded that acting Captain Watters was posthumously charged with disobeying orders, manslaughter, and drug abuse in the destruction of the Valiant. The hearing was conducted on Deep Space 9 by Captain Sisko after his son submitted the factual account of this incident for publication for SFN. The Deep Space Commander was ordered to conduct the hearing after Star Fleet declined to clear Jake Sisko's news story and it was subsequently classified due to the Dominion War.

The Tribunal consisted of Captain Sisko, Commander Worf and commander Degorion of Star Fleet Intelligence who was sent by SFC to investigate the Valiant incident. The conclusion was although acting Captain Watters was correct in continuing with the intelligence gathering mission after the death of the original Captain and maintaining the communication blackout while deep in enemy territory, the failure to immediately return to Federation space ONCE the Dreadnought's intelligence was gathered should have been paramount instead of the youthful inexperienced attack which resulted in the deaths and loss of the Valiant. The abuse of chemical stimulants and lack of experience were major factors contributing to the failed mission.

Ah. Star Trek, the Teenage Years. Lord of the flies, sanitised and repackaged for the modern generation.

Though first, you need to buy into the highly contrived conceit that all the adults conveniently died in a way which left a bunch of hormone-addled “alpha” teenagers in charge of a (mostly) fully functional warship. And for an added bonus, while limping around the universe, they happen to stumble across another ship with two teenagers in, one of which knows how to fix the engines of said warship.

The icing on the cake is that this half-baked crew has been stumbling around for eight months in radio silence - and without any resupplies - for yet more contrived reasons, and is attempting to hunt down a Dominion super-battleship, despite the fact that they don’t have a cloaking device and have been stuck at warp 3 - or approx. 200 times slower than the Jem Hadar ships they’ve been trying to avoid.

I dunno. There’s only so much suspension of disbelief I can do, especially when the main plotline isn’t particularly engaging. It perhaps doesn’t help that the teen-crew is structured around the American frat-house trope, all the way down to ritual chants and closing ranks to outsiders. But as with other things the DS9 writers brought into the show (e.g. Vic Fontaine) that trope is pretty uniquely American in nature and just looks bizzare if not both pathetic and ridiculous from a European perspective.

(Though University sports societies in the UK can sometimes bear a passing resemblance; there was a night when a bunch of dress-wearing rugby players stood on tables at a nearby pub to bellow out politically incorrect songs inbetween chugging pints of beer, before linking arms between each other’s legs and staggering off in a bizarre human chain. But I digress…)

Sadly, things go pretty much as you’d expect. The highly arrogant teen-captain has been abusing space-amphetamines, which in turn leads him to abuse the ship’s internal monitoring systems and then to object to Jake’s presence as an potentially disruptive outsider. And when they do stumble across the super-battleship, he naturally decides to try and destroy it rather than returning to the Federation undetected.

But since this is DS9, the plan fails, the ship is destroyed and everyone onboard is killed - except, in an oddly convenient way, for a single escape pod which just so happens to hold Jake, Nog and a token survivor, whose final action is an attempt to defend the teen-captain as being a great man, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I can see what they were going for, but it all falls a bit flat for me.

I'm sorry, but I thought "Valiant" was a dumb episode. I think it would have worked if the cadets were junior officers commanding the surviving crew. But a Starfleet commissioned officer giving a cadet a battlefield commission, when the smartest move would have been to order the cadets back to the nearest Starfleet base? And what was up with Nog? He enthusiastically agreed with everything Watters did . . . yet, in the end, judge the latter as a "poor captain"?

This episode was dumb.

I see some recent comments so let me my own. The ending of the episode reminded of an issue of the 80s DC Star Trek: the original series (starring Kirk and company).

In that issue, the captain of a ship beams down to a planet and gets ambushed by Romulans snd the entire party is killed. The captain orders the ensign in charge to get the ship out.

But the ensign rebels saying “Kirk wouldn’t let this happen” . Basically the ensign used kirks example of breaking the rules to try and attack the romulan ships.

At the end of the day, like the cadet in ds9, the m attempt at heroics fails. But in the comic, Kirk comes in to save the day.

I had to look up the comic: issue #47 (1984 run) entitled “idol threats”

Can anyone figure out why the Federation hasn't told the Academy to dissolve Red Squadron for the rest of eternity? I mean, other than because kids want to see a show with kids in charge occasionally? And how are the kids who get into Red Squadron always the ones with absolutely no concept of what to do under stress?

Well, I thought the episode was quite good.

I should probably admit that I’m not a DS9 fan, but I just happened to catch it on Hero’s and Icons channel one night. In fact, I usually jokingly refer to the series as ‘Truck Stop 9’ or ‘Deep Drop 9’, as I generally find it rather boring. I’m more of a TNG and Voyager person, myself, for what it’s worth.

Anyway, I’m willing to bet the people who find this episode more disagreeable probably lean more to the liberal side of the spectrum in their mindset. If true, I’d like to point out that the story goes out of its way to condemn fascist style thinking, and all the worst about cult of personality and war. It’s also an exciting episode.

I liked the ‘red squad’ chanting. Like ‘USA, USA!’, it helps build comraderie and team spirit, especially in this case, when the crew realizes the odds against them. Or a bit like the very annoying, “we’re all in this together”, we keep hearing at the moment.

Good stuff, and not nearly as boring as this series usually is. Just my two cents...

Something I suspected, and I wish was suggested in the episode, is that this kid captain was not actually given a field promotion and told to continue, but that he was likely told by Captain Ramirez that he should act as captain JUST to take everyone home. My guess is kid was given orders to go home and he ignored them and didn't tell anyone, and kept on going. I think that fits the character, the fanaticism, the drug use.

I've followed Jammer's reviews for many years -- basically since the beginning -- (and I generally like them) -- I wonder if, re-reading these and doing your own post-season review(s), J, if you might notice a certain bias -- doesn't make much sense that this gets 3 stars in your ranking, whereas Magnificent Ferengi gets 2.5. Not exactly defending schmaltzy humor -- the DS9 campiness has its definite flaws -- but I think I'm seeing a "prefer poorly-done military morality plays over mediocre slapstick or rom-com humor" slant here, and (in my now mid-forties perspective) I very much do not share that view.

@sskoog

I know exactly what you are saying. Imo how good any show is lives and dies on your relationship with the characters and how well they are written. For me a lot of political/war episodes seem to “zoom out” and get too large scale, too much going on, too many moving pieces. While some of the comedy episodes that focus on just a few characters show more of who they are and I find heartwarming

I always thought that the Valiant's crew should have survived and got their own spin-off show, may be have them explore the Gamma Quadrant which was under utilized in DS9. It would have been better than Discovery.

Courtney Peldon was great!
Awesome ep!

"BABIES! THEY'RE JUST STUPID BABIES!" That's what I found myself yelling at my screen the entire episode; every time Karen barked some dogmatic insult to Jake, or Captain Ambitious made some nonsensical decision or put on a serious face.

If the intent was to feel rage at these characters, and no sympathy when they died... success?

And yes, I *know* what I was like at 18-22, in my first career job. I was eager, smart; had a lot of disruptive new ideas, and didn't yet know what corporate hierarchy would be like. So in a way that precociousness tracks. But at no point did I see myself as equivalent to experts with decades of experience. And with the risk of dying added.. are you kidding?
If the element of duty and bravery of the child-crew rings true for you, look at it as a warning flag of the dangers of extravert culture and groupthink (e.g. encouraging cults of personality and egomaniacs like this). Because to me it just feels like a cautionary about how wrong it is to recruit naïve kids for military service, rather than any commentary on starfleet ideals, soldiering, military experience, or bravery.

__
To give credit, @Springy re-framing Watters as insecure, did make me reconsider a little. I had taken his spying on Jake as a signal of how he *usually* runs his ship; not as a signal of his decline.
And @Kyle, in general, I often find myself marveling at how calm the regular ST cast are, when facing death. So I'm not putting down those aspects of military bravery. Quite simply, if theses kids were cautious and determined to survive, and things didn't work out, or if they were written as trapped behind enemy lines for reasons beyond mission goals, having them die would have felt like the tragedy it is. Instead it feels on par with arrogant kids getting drunk, and crashing their cars in a drunken race. Darwin award deaths. No nuance, just bold stupidity.

"And yes, I *know* what I was like at 18-22, in my first career job. I was eager, smart; had a lot of disruptive new ideas, and didn't yet know what corporate hierarchy would be like. So in a way that precociousness tracks. "

I can't imagine being this age and feeling this way. Just a totally alien way of thinking.

A standard episode on the follies of youth, amplified by it being a group of so called 'elite cadets' (in other words, a group with an unhealthy amount of pressure and expectations heaped onto them, both by others and themselves) who are suddenly thrust into a situation far beyond their capabilities, that turns into a related theme of blind loyalty and the consequences of following a leader off of a cliff.
Personally, I feel they should've stuck with the idea of the crew, as a group, trying to push themselves beyond their limits, and the consequences of doing so, rather than put all that on the acting captain and having him be the only one who was interested in the idea (as the de-briefing scene makes clear) but that aside, the episode was decent enough, one that, while mostly filler-y, could (don't know if it does, as this is my first time watching the series) potentially lead to some character development for Nog further down the line.

This was EASILY the WORST episode of DA9 hands down. Nothing else to say about this garbage episode.

You all are as whiny as the brats in Red Squad. This was a solid, good but not great, episode about hubris, groupthink, and youthful delusions of heroism, ala Harrison Bergeron.

I’d watch this episode any day over Profit and Lace or the one with Lwaxana in the mud bath, but you do you.

I was always struck by the idea of the cadet ship circumnavigating the Federation, thinking that would take an awful long time.

But according to the DS9 Technical Manual, Bajor is only 52 light years from Earth. Wow, if 52 light years is considered "deep space", then the Federation is drastically smaller than I ever thought.

This also rather contradicts actual statements from TOS.


Anyway, is 52 light years considered "deep" space even today?

"Anyway, is 52 light years considered "deep" space even today?"

A Google search shows that it's not really a technical term, so has no fixed meaning. It could mean anything ranging from being outside the Earth/moon system, to outside the solar system.

It might not sound very far, but 52 light years still takes 2 weeks to traverse at warp 9. So it really depends what is "an awful long time" to you.

Turns out there are whole websites dedicated to determining the extent of the Federation. The reality is the shows have been wildly inconsistent, particularly if you include TOS.

Still, even in the TNG era, when Julian says something like this about DS9:

"The farthest reaches of the galaxy. One of the most remote outposts available. This is where the adventure is. This is where heroes are made. Right here, in the wilderness."

Even with Julian being hyperbolic, that still suggests something a lot farther than 52 light years.

And it's been well established the Federation straddles the Alpha and Beta quadrants. If we assume a diameter of about 100 light years... well, that's like rounding error in terms of the size of the galaxy. I wouldn't say the Feds are "in" either.

Well, it won't keep me up at night. After all, neither the 1701 nor 1701-D could possibly really have all the adventures they have in 3 years or 7 years or whatever unless they have instantaneous transportation.

https://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/federation.htm

Haha, and I was just watching the TNG First Contact episode, and Deanna states Earth is over 2,000 light years from this planet they are visiting--- this planet that has had Federation reconnaissance for years.

To me, this fits with Q's comment that Starfleet was about to enter areas with threats they couldn't imagine when he threw the Enterprise 7,000 light years to encounter the Borg.

Ira Behr frequently name drops the director Sam Fuller, who is a sort of cult figure amongst war movie aficionados. He generally made lean, low budget war movies, all with a strong anti war bent, and clear moralizing.

A lot of DS9's "land battle" episodes borrow heavily from Fuller, to good effect.

"Valiant" is the first time, though, that Behr gives us Sam Fuller in a spaceship. And so we get a nicely minimalistic tale of kids trapped behind military lines and unwittingly succumbing to the kind of WW2-era jingoism and war-fever that Fuller liked to warn against. Fittingly Jake - the writer, the outsider (another common WW2, and Fuller trope) - is one of the few people to not get swept up in the yearning for blood, vengeance and glory.

Someone above mentioned "Lord of the Flies", and IMO that's another apt comparison; detached from the Federation - from civilization - the kids become primal, tribal, and swear fidelity to their charismatic alpha leader.

Some commenters deem this an offensive episode ("Starfleet would never behave like that!"), but I've never read it this way. I've always taken it not as a condemnation of Starfleet, but rather a warning of what happens when you're disconnected from Starfleet. I'd say it also has a slightly satirical tone, akin to Verhoeven's "Starship Troopers".

The special effects and "dog fights" continue to be spectacular in this show. DS9's model work aged better than most similar stuff of the period, and to me seem more exciting than similar fare seen in Disco.

This episode was awful and I'm glad they died, though I'd have rather seen the Defiant show up and haul them all back to the nearest star base for their court martial. Stupid spoiled brats.

One thing nobody has mentioned, is how the Valiant was able to maintain itself during a time of war without accessing a star base for 8+ months. No refuels. No refits. No repairs. Just battle after battle in a ship filled with cadets who have limited operational knowledge?

The excuse that they are "trapped behind enemy lines" doesn't make sense on multiple levels. First of all, space is huge. It would be a simple matter to turn around and go to the nearest star base, even if they had to make sneaky detours. If they could exist "behind enemy lines" for so long without being blown up then they could surely fly home more easily. And more importantly, a rogue Federation ship in enemy territory would eventually have a whole squadron sent after it.

I have to forgive all these things in order to just go with the jingoistic plot line, but I feel that good sci-fi also needs an effective setup in order to really drive the stakes home. There were no stakes here. We're just supposed to believe that a group of cadets was given one the most of advanced classes of starship for training purposes, and then not ordered home when the commissioned officers were about to be killed off.

Also... Nog is commissioned. He could have pulled rank on all those cadets. A captain can't commission another captain as occurred with Watters. He can only be made acting captain.

It just... doesn't make sense.

Even their original mission to circumnavigate the entire Federation. Why? Why would cadets be given jobs that are even one rank above their pay grade, let alone several, when they just don't have the experience? What about their 4th year classes at school? Did they just stop studying?

I feel that whomever wrote this episode was too caught up in high concept to realize that it doesn't add up.

This episode is so close to being good. Unfortunately it's Farris that completely ruins it from the start and makes it not believable imo. Seriously her instant attitude towards Jake made zero sense. Then again later after Jake barely even had what could be considered a conversation, Farris gets mad and reprimands Jake in a scene that just doesn't make any sense. If only those scenes were just a little different it would've made ALL the difference for me

I just watched this episode last night and I read the comments written here. I think Jammer got it mostly right. Many of the criticism of the episode written here don't make sense:

1) They would never make a cadet captain and put him in charge. What's the alternative? All the senior leadership died. As others have noted, a totally plausible explanation is that the dying captain put Watters in charge with orders to repair the ship and return home and Watters just made up his own orders because he's an immature cult leader.

2) You would never put a bunch of teenagers on a state of the art warship. Maybe not in peacetime, but this is a war the Federation is losing ... badly. Just look at the history of our world wars where countries are literally fighting over their existence. You end up with more and more teenagers in the trenches. It makes perfect sense Starfleet would want these elite cadets on a training voyage in order to get them into ships as quickly as possible so they can gain experience and move up in the ranks. Starfleet needs fresh bodies quickly so they can get blown up by the Jem'Hadar.

3) Jake's behavior - the moment Nog fixed the engines and they didn't immediately warp back to the nearest star base is when Jake's assessment of the ship being full of fanatics rang true. As the only one not charmed into Watters' cult, he is the voice of reason.

4) Nog's behavior - Nog has spent his life being told Ferengi are greedy trolls who only care about profit and have no sense of duty, honor or loyalty. He feels no one respects him or takes him seriously. Now not only does he get to work side by side with the cadets he idolized at Starfleet Academy, but they give him the respect he wants so badly AND real responsibility. It's his dream come true so it makes sense he too gets sucked into the Lord of the Flies in Space cult.

5) Being stuck behind enemy lines - what didn't make sense was Jake and Nog flying on their own into a warzone. It would have made more sense if either they had flown into a wormhole and been deposited into hostile space or if they had been passengers in a ship crewed by Starfleet which was attacked and they were the only ones who managed to get beamed out. The explanation of the Valiant being stuck makes sense, although their survival improbable. Watters and his crew are like Spanish explorers shipwrecked in the new world with no way to get back.

6) People seem to discount the role charismatic leaders can play in molding a society. Watters' crew, young kids who have endured 8 months of PTSD inducing terror, are now fanatically devoted to him and will follow him right off of the cliff. Just look at current events with Putin annihilating Ukraine. I'm not a expert on Russia-Ukraine relations but it feels a lot like the equivalent of the USA laying waste to Canada. You would think the people would rise up but Russians get propaganda 24/7 in all their state controlled media telling them the Russians are actually protecting Ukraine and all the destruction is caused by "Ukrainian nationalists." Never underestimate the power of cult figures over a group.

I watched this one again and it is -- for some reason -- one of my favorite episodes. What is impressive in this one is how the crew reacts after their plan to blow up the dreadnought fails -- they freeze and their inexperience becomes obvious to everyone (including themselves).

Shouldn't Nog technically outrank all of the cadets, regardless of their Red Squad "field commissions"?

Good theoretical question.

Wesley Crusher shows a precedent for field commissions and the circumstance of Watters' commission is far more justifiable as it's a literal battlefield commission.

Even if he were only made an ensign by his CO, he was also made captain of the ship and "captain" in that sense is not a rank, it's a position. A higher ranking individual on the ship can't just assume command.

Anyway, certainly nobody would follow Nog had he attempted that.

Well, paint me green and call me a cucumber!

We have a vessel stuck behind enemy lines, during a vicious war, manned by dutiful cadets who were thrown into deeply challenging and invidious circumstances that would have broken older and tougher men, but they apparently rose to the occasion with aplomb. So, but naturally, all can't possibly be what it seems. Naturally, there is something dark and sinister going on behind the scenes. Naturally. Because GODS FORBID these diligent, clean-cut cadets should actually emerge as the heroes in the story. In case the subtlety of the captain popping some weird pills and callously forbidding his vulnerable crewmen from indulging in wistful reminiscences about home was somehow lost on the viewer, the episode really makes sure to drive the point home by the X.O. being a female dog to our oh-so lovable and sensitive Jake. You put a metrosexual "reporter" who wants to talk about feeeeeeeeeelings on a warship in his place? Why, you MUST be an absolute bitch! 🙄🙄🙄

The Cisco would "never try to pull off something like this"? Really?! REALLY!? What is this: episode 2 of season 1?! Pull that B.S. on someone else, kid. We all know The Cisco did far more foolhardy and apparently hopeless missions. Many times. Give me a break.

Also interesting to see surveillance cameras in Engineering. Usually nobody has a clue what's going on anywhere because C.C.T.V. is apparently not a thing in the 24th century... - until now. Naturally.

Anyway, the ending was predictable. Predictably and tiresomely naff. We can't have anyone other than The Cisco pull death-defying feats of military brilliance. The kids therefore had to be vaporized. Naturally.

Even the escape pods didn't make it. Except Jake and Nogg's. Naturally.

Regarding the rating, a single star for the action sequences. You basically can't score a win unless you're of The Cisco and Friends.

P.S. Jake has turned into an insufferable bore. He really needs to repair away to a ranch on the Moon and spend his days writing manuals about crocheting.

Very surprised to see such vitriol directed towards this episode. I remembered it as being fairly middle of the road, and found it slightly better than I remembered when I rewatched last night. I can understand disliking it, but suggesting it's one of the worst episodes of the series, much less the franchise, is simply laughable.

A few of the complaints seem strange to me as well. What in this episode would make anyone think that if Nog tried to take command, Watters wouldn't simply have thrown him in the brig with the full support of the rest of the crew? Also, those complaining that the Valiant would surely have been found and destroyed by the Dominion after 8 months in enemy territory seem to be forgetting just how big and empty space really is.

@Gaius Maximus

I think a certain generation of ST fan has a deeply engrained loathing of teens who present as “jocks” like the brats in Red Squad.

I personally like this one - 3 stars.

I don’t get the criticism of this episode either. The main criticism comes off as “I hate the premise, and I dispute it, therefore the episode sucks.” Yet another specious line of argument - a twig off the tree of “Star Trek isn’t about X, character Y would never do that, th Federation isn’t really fascist….” It is fair to ask for some kind of internal consistency but to dispute the premise when you’re dealing with a show that has hundreds of writers over half of a century (who don’t have total recall) seems like weak sauce for criticism.

As critic Darren Franich has said, “continuity pedantry has become an operating filmmaking aesthetic AND a chief fanboy demand.” Franich calls this an “oddly prudish elitism” and he’s right: https://ew.com/article/2016/07/05/star-trek-nemesis-trashy-fun-vampire-movie/

As long as every continuity I is dotted and every in-universe portrayal of something is rigorously unmodulated, it doesn’t matter whether something is actually GOOD any more. And if these rules are violated, something is terrible.

To simply state this is to state how absurd it is.

I’d go further (and maybe Franich would too) and say that some fans” obsession with internal consistency and continuity has become near-pornographic. @Eric’s comment of March 26, 2022 is an excellent rejoinder to the “ but this person wouldn’t do that and he wouldn’t text that way and she would really do THIS” (these are fictional people, people) to some of the more picayune criticisms of the episode. Harlan Ellison said it well, too: “But my character would never do that” should be banned from writers’ vocabulary.

But I dunno. I shudder to think how many fans pumped their fists each time, in the immediately previous episode to this one, the phrase “ACTING Grand Nagus Brunt” was uttered. Hilarious

A few thoughts on this ep:

I never really got engaged into the story. It all seemed very unrealistic that cadets, even those of Red Squad, would still be in command of an important starship in the middle of nowhere for that long without even trying to make it home. Even at warp 3.2.

The music was absolutely dreadful. Boring and out of place. Some of the cues had nothing to do with the scene being shown. Maybe the worst soundtrack I've heard in the series so far.

As a commissioned officer with the rank of Ensign, doesn't Nog outrank even the most senior of the cadets on a field promotion?

And as some stated above, pretty convenient that everyone dies (even the ship) except Nog, Jake, and Dorian. I'd think that Nog (again, the only actual Starfleet Officer on the ship) would even face an inquiry as to why he let a perfectly serviceable warship carry out a futile mission anyway.

"As a commissioned officer with the rank of Ensign, doesn't Nog outrank even the most senior of the cadets on a field promotion?"

I think this issue has been raised by a number of people. Someone in the armed services can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine that if a ship's captain officially places someone else in command, that placement wouldn't be superseded even if a superior officer came along, such as a Lt or Cdr. Only someone with the authority to countermand the captain's order could rescind the appointment. And as acting captain, Watters would be fully authorized to assign his crew members ranks as needed. So even while a real ensign would outrank any cadet, he would not outrank the acting captain, and therefore would have to accept the command structure on that ship that the captain specifies. If an admiral or maybe another captain came along perhaps they could relieve Watters of his command, but it's possible that no one of a lower rank could reverse the captain's order that Watters is in command. That's my running assumption, anyhow. That would also explain why Nog would be so helpless to stop the suicide attack: chain of command requires he obey legitimate orders, even if they're dumb ones.

The whole "who is in command" question is rather tricky in that situation. So movies and shows often give the impression that a higher rank can command a lower rank but that is actually not true in most situations. Let's say you are captain and are shuttling off to a conference, then you put the first officer in command. Another captain or even admiral cannot just come along then and take over but if that captain or admiral is in the specific military structure the ship is in like the "second squadron of the Fifth fleet and the Admiral is the commander of the second squadron, then he could force the current person in charge to follow his/her orders or declare it his/her flagship. Technically the first officer/captain would still be in charge because admirals command flotillas or fleets not ships but in a situation where the current captain has for example disobeyed orders the admiral could take command directly.
What happens in this episode is not a regular transfer but a breakdown of command. Imagine you are with a battalion and the commanding officers are all dead or otherwise incapable of command, then ad-hoc structures are used to take the unit out of the dangerous situation in other words a disorderly retreat.
A good example is the so called "Task Force Faith" during the battle of the Chosin Reservoir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_Faith

if I remember correctly the episode presents it as if the captain gave the cadets the order to continue the mission. While I guess this is theoretically possible, the only logical order in that situation would be to retreat from the combat zone and get in contact with whatever military structure the Valiant is part of. Cadets or not commissioned officers, meaning that they should not command at all, only in absolute emergencies for short periods. Nog is a commissioned officer and technically would be within his right to take over BUT then we wouldn't get the valuable lesson that teenagers on drugs shouldn't command warships or something?!

https://www.armyresilience.army.mil/ard/images/pdf/Policy/600-20%20Army%20Command%20Policy.pdf

@ Booming,

"Imagine you are with a battalion and the commanding officers are all dead or otherwise incapable of command, then ad-hoc structures are used to take the unit out of the dangerous situation in other words a disorderly retreat."

They don't go into detail in the episode, but they do say they ended up behind enemy lines. I don't know what purpose this information serves for us except to suggest that they were caught in that position, and therefore trapped and separated from the rest of Starfleet. Now if we hold to this logic it begs the question of how they survived at all, and the answer seems to be the cloaking device. But if that's true then why couldn't they just leave with their cloaking device. It's tough to see this as anything other than something of a breakdown in logic in the episode's backstory. However I suppose we could conjure up a head canon explanation that would serve, for instance a Dominion tachyon sensor net along the perimeter of space to prevent, let's say, the Romulans just attacking their most important bases. Behind this net the Valiant could operate freely but if it crossed it the Dominion would know.

Maybe offering an explanation in that level of detail would be a waste of screen time, I don't know. Actually I think it would have been cool, since it would show us something new about the Dominion's strategies. At least it would explain why Watters can't go back to the Federation. If that were true, I suppose the best use of the ship's time would be to take out Dominion warships, or at least collect intelligence. In fairness to Watters, his mistake is perhaps not knowing well enough the Valiant's limitations and the likelihood of their success in attacking the prototype warship. If their chances were somehow better maybe the risky attack would be worth it. It's hard for us to gauge Nog's statement that Sisko would never do an attack this risky. I guess it would depend on what the potential benefit would be, no?

@Peter
"Maybe offering an explanation in that level of detail would be a waste of screen time, I don't know."
That's probably it. In the end it doesn't really matter that the situation doesn't make much sense for people who understand military command structures. It obviously is convincing enough for most fans. As you point out the cloak problem is basically ignored by the episode and for good reason. Sure, it could be hand waved away with an explanation but that could cause continuity problems down the line in later episodes.

The weak point of the episode is Red Squad which featured in another episode. This and the other episode kind of indicate that elitism in the military is bad but it always confines it to trainee officers and keeps it vague overall. Red Squad features prominently in two episodes and in both very negatively. Still, there is never a scene where somebody says that the Red Squad program was a bad idea or abandoned which is weird. Why portray them so negatively if you do not working up to something??

This episodes works ok on a dramatic level but it doesn't really say much beyond that. Neither about Nog nor about elitism. Nog wants to belong to the elite Red Squad, Nog wants to command. We already know that Nog is ambitious.

In the USA the military is the most widely admired institution which is obviously very bad for any democracy and there is also a special cult about certain elite units like Navy Seals or 101st airborne to name a few. Anybody who knows a little about history is aware that elite units are always the ones governments use to shot at civilians/quell unrest so the episode could make a point about that but it really never does or does it? The episode seems to be more about a unit trapped behind enemy lines, than the dangers of elite units.

There was another montage in the series finale.

https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-ds9/s6/valiant.php#comment-10314

Having to spend all this time with fascist teenagers a-la Lord of the Flies was really annoying. They were all pretty bratty and hard to bear.

Nog here was particularly disappointing - he is already a Starfleet officer, not a cadet. At that point in the story, he has military experience in life-and-death situations, and served with much higher-ranking and more seasoned officers. There is no reason for him to be so impressed with these kids after he served under O'Brien and Sisko, for once. And surely, I expected him not to chant "Red Squad Red Squad" in that pseudo-The-Wave scene.

On the other hand - I believe that Jake was shown off as too selfish here. In fact, as Jammer suggests, the discussion is balanced in this episode - but it should not be. The kid captain was acting irresponsibly, under the influence of (medical) drugs, and Nog was following him like an idiot. I believe that Jake's side - which was proven beyond all doubt to be right - is not the other extremity, but I agree that the writers tried to present it that way.

"Stupid kids" - The episode. As if the show didn't have enough self-adulating, projected, "daddy/writer-as-a-profession" episodes. Here we have another soother for frustrated, narcissist dads, who honestly think they've done nothing wrong in their parenting to have such bratty, falsely entitled, children. If they don't listen, they should die, apparently.

Red Squad previously performed a global power outage that not only likely murdered at least a couple of senior citizens (or said dads) who were hooked up to defibrillators, while terrorizing everyone else on the planet that didn't die horribly, due to lack of backup diesel generators in every red-light holosuite.

There's a word for that kind of act, when you perform specific acts to terrorize citizens: Hokum. Enough hokum to earn some hard-labor that these stupidly written stupid kids should've gotten when they were old enough to hold a shovel, or some such ideas from curmudgeons that deliriously hand bitcoin to strangers.

The only good thing about this episode is Courtney Peldon is hotAF to pubescent boys, which is the whole point of this episode, apparently, to show them to never get too attached to a pretty face attached to a horrible personality. Regrets all around. Unless you learn to be into that sort of thing. Nudge-nudge, hur-dur men.

What the hell is this episode? Drugs are bad, mmkay?

When this first aired I was 17 years old, debating joining the actual military, with three close friends attending actual service academies (one at West Point in his first year and two at the Air Force Academy in their second years)...

To a person we all HATED this episode. My buddy Mike (West Point) summed it up best, "When they started chanting 'Red Squad' I started chanting 'You're all gonna die.'"

TNG did the young cadet/officer hubris/bad judgment story better with "The First Duty" the backstory to "The Pegasus." Those were believable failures of young impressionable cadets/officers that one could easily imagine happening in the real world.

This is just unbelievable trash that's about 50,000 light years past suspension of disbelief. It reads like a bad piece of fan fiction that somehow made it into script format and got filmed.

Also, to the various folks hand-waving away Red Squad's continued existence after "Homefront" because "They were only following orders."

Uhh, yeah, about that....

You can't follow an unlawful order. Imagine the outcome if a bunch of Annapolis cadets went along with a false flag operation concocted by some Admiral unhappy with the foreign policy of the civilian government....

They'd all end up in Federal pound-me-in-the-*** prison. Not white collar resort prison. Pound-me-in-the-*** prison.

The only proper response from a Cadet receiving such blatantly unlawful orders would be to immediately pick up the phone and call the FBI/NCIS/their CO (or all of the above)

Starfleet is a bit more understanding than modern day society, so we can hand-wave away them not going to prison, but to imagine zero consequences AND Starfleet keeping the unit together with a posh assignment?

C'mon....

Best case, they all got cashiered out of the service. Worst case, Federation penal colony for a few years. Remember to request quarters on the East Wing; Ro Laren says the West Wing gets awfully hot in the afternoon. :-)

I agree with the negative comments on this episode, it is so dumb on every level. Nog is in awe of Red Squad, “they get the best training, the best food, the best of everything”. The best food, what does everybody else get, bread and water? This is the 24th century, surely only the best get into Starfleet in the first place. Why does every crew member blindly follow this maniac? In the final scene, the only survivor of the crew says that the captain was a great man, really, by what measure was he a great man? He led his crew on a suicide mission, getting the ship destroyed and most of the crew killed, just how was he great?