Star Trek: Picard

"Two of One"

2 stars

Air date: 4/7/2022
Written by Cindy Appel & Jane Maggs
Directed by Jonathan Frakes

Review by Jamahl Epsicokhan

It's at this point in the season that the "10-hour movie" structure of this series is really starting to take its toll. There are some things to recommend here — notably everybody's awesome red-carpet wardrobe — but they're mostly overshadowed by the sinking feeling that all of this is a waste of this production's time. Consider the fact you've got Patrick Stewart on board for 30 episodes of this series to continue the story of Picard. You've got all the resources of the CBS/Paramount machine at your disposal. You could tell a couple dozen cool stories centered on Picard and his crew, preferably some of them even in the 25th century. Instead we're spending, I'm guessing, an entire eight episodes in 2024, running around and chasing vague plot things in an overarching story that so far makes very little sense.

Economy of narrative has been replaced with the need to stretch every scene into an episode. Remember in First Contact how Picard and Lily went into a Dixon Hill novel in the holodeck because Picard needed a Borg component? That scene also allowed for everyone to get dressed up for a formal party. (It also, ironically, was directed by Jonathan Frakes.) The scene was, what, maybe a few minutes? Now we take that and stretch it into an entire episode and then some, because the movie is now eight to 10 hours long.

This would be fine if the narrative were firing on all cylinders and doing something interesting, but it's not. It's almost painfully generic. The "heist" nature of the plot here is almost immediately solved and shoved aside (*), thanks to Agnes' new superhero powers granted by her merging minds with the Borg Queen. Much of the rest of the episode is idle chit-chat among the characters, which is sometimes reasonable. But to add needless suspense or whatever, we tack on another hacky flash-forward device at the beginning of each act showing Picard gravely injured before flashing back to "34 minutes earlier," as if we need to set all this up with a ticking clock countdown to disaster.

* I'm noticing a pattern here where major plot things are set up in the previous episode (The magistrate has beamed aboard La Sirena and recaptured the crew! Rios is on a Homeland Security bus!), only to be almost immediately resolved in the next episode. This would seem to be a good thing because it's moving the plot forward, but the advancement of plot is mostly illusory.

Then there are the flashbacks within Picard's mind, which hearken back to his youth and his mother, and his father (face never seen) who apparently was abusive. These brief, vague flashes have been shown to us now in nearly every episode, but we're no closer to finding out what they mean (beyond the obvious speculation that Picard journeyed to space to escape a broken home) than we were after the first episode.

The one thing this series is trying to do right is circle back to some sort of character-based substance in these episodes. In that vein, we do get the nice scene between Picard and Renee where he tries to assuage her shattered confidence with a Picardian speech that works as a genuine sentiment.

Then there's Agnes and the episode's title. She and the Borg Queen were a team matched in hell. I can't tell you how surprised I am week after week that this catty, wisecracking, mischievous take on the manipulative Borg Queen actually works. I don't know how Annie Wersching and the writers stumbled upon this particularly weird and, yes, fun take on the character. Honestly, the Queen is playing the Q role here even better than Q: Getting in Agnes' ear and saying things that are manipulative in a way that claws at buried truths. (Honestly, this feels like it could be a legit sci-fi sitcom. Title: The Queen's Gambit. Oh, wait, never mind.) The central question here is to what degree is the Queen taking over Agnes' mind, versus Agnes giving it over willingly because she likes the power the Queen provides in return. Consistent with the Queen's canonical nature is the idea that she uses seduction to get what she wants.

This leads to a musical number where Agnes belts out "Shadows of the Night" at the party in what is the flightiest of fancies this side of Nana Visitor singing "Fever" in "His Way." It's completely ridiculous and implausible (apparently Agnes+ can also emit an EM pulse that knocks out the lights for good measure), but shows a goofy charm and go-for-broke-ness that's really hard for me to dislike.

Unfortunately, the plot is a mess. Kore, driven by some sudden coincidental suspicion, decides to do an internet search on her father, which ... I guess she's never thought to do before? Even though she's trapped in a house with nothing to do for years on end? She finds a bunch of articles calling him a discredited mad scientist and such, and then she discovers video logs that he has conveniently left unlocked. They reveal that she's actually a genetically engineered experiment being raised as his daughter — and not the first one; many previous attempts failed and died. This would explain her medical afflictions. (What's not explained is how he did all this and who else, if anyone, was a part of it.)

But how does this fit into the larger picture? I'm not enticed by these developments nearly as much as I'm nonplussed. It feels like the writers are just throwing plot at the wall and hoping something sticks. The "sit at the computer and discover awful things" trope felt really hackneyed. (Incidentally, the first time I remember this being done really well was in Clear and Present Danger (1994), which of course looks hopelessly dated now. That movie also featured a U.S. president who seemed so implausibly cartoonish at the time in his attempt to seize drug money with his "This is our money!" bit, but seems considerably less cartoonish now. I digress.)

Soong is so desperate to stop Renee from going on the Europa mission that he attempts to run her down with his car, and hits Picard instead. That's a pretty extreme solution to a problem that could've been solved in probably any number of smarter and subtler ways. I'm also less than thrilled that this hit-and-run leaves Picard in a coma unable to wake up (while having dreams of his troubled childhood). Laris Tallinn wants to use one of her thingamabobs to wake him up, while everyone else wants to let him work things out in his mind on his own. In an episode that meanders for so long, to drop all this craziness on us at the last minute just feels strange.

Q makes no appearance here, and I'm honestly at a loss what his game even is at this point. If he's so hellbent on stopping Renee from going on the Europa mission that he pits Soong against Picard, why did he even set these events in motion with Picard being put in the alternate timeline in the first place? What's the lesson and/or penance beyond a loose motivation for the story's premise? And if he's Renee's shrink, couldn't he manipulate this matter beyond what he's doing with Soong, who's incompetent? The ground rules are so hazy as to be incoherent.

I think that about covers it. I'll end this without a closing since the episode does the same.

"This is our money, we found it! Tell them! Or don't tell them, I don't care.":

  • Clearly, Agnes' song was lip-synced for the scene, but was that really Alison Pill's voice?
  • My wife pointed this out to me: Kore sits up in alarm when her father gets home from running down an old man in a parking lot and she asks, "What happened?!" as if he were covered in blood or something, when in fact the only indicator that anything is amiss is that his tie is undone and he looks slightly unhappy. LOL. Did she read her father's script?
  • Did Jeri Ryan even have any lines this week? I noticed her in the periphery of a lot of shots (see awesome wardrobe, referenced above), but she had no dialogue. Strange. Raffi does note that being free of her Borg implants allows her to mix it up a bit at the party, which is a potentially interesting idea for a character story, but is in here merely as a throwaway.
  • Raffi is suddenly the Voice of Reason when she has to warn Rios about the dangers of possible relationships (when he betrays a smittenness over Cute Doctor who treated him before the ICE adventure) that span centuries. Not about contaminating the timeline, mind you, but that such relationships would be built upon lies.
  • Speaking of Cute Doctor, she's called upon here when the crew has Picard's medical emergency from Soong's hit-and-run. When she defibrillates him, his synthetic body feeds back on her equipment. Rios has a lot of ‘splainin' to do.
  • Picard and Tallinn have some back-and-forth repartee that is fairly effective. Again, if these characters were in a storyline that could tell stories about each of them and not just go hither and thither with meandering plot points, we might have something worthwhile. At the moment, not so much.

Previous episode: Fly Me to the Moon
Next episode: Monsters

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217 comments on this post

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Jeffrey's Tube
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 2:22am (UTC -5)
Much better. A tighter focus keeps this episode well paced. And did you notice: it was only 38 minutes? They didn't pad the episode with extra stuff to hit the runtime. It's not a messy collection of subplots with our team split up and all over the place. This was just, overall, much better constructed and executed television than the last few episodes.

Some observations:

Was that a 52-star American flag at the gala? I couldn't tell, but didn't it look kind of "off" at a glance? I would have to go back and watch it again to properly tell, and I don't have time right now. I could be entirely wrong, here.

The Europa craft, especially the top part they zoomed in on, literally could not have looked anymore like a dildo. Take THAT, space. All thrusters go!

Jurati has a PhD in lounge singing now, too. Between that and the dress--listen, she's only lonely if she wants to be, okay? Maybe they should have kicked Brie Larson behind the drum kit rather than Allison Pill in Scott Pilgrim . . .

Seven continues to be entirely wasted. Did she even have a line this week?

Okay, and now the big one:

Listen up, everyone. That was Jean-Luc Picard on my screen tonight giving that pep talk speech to Renee. And that wasn't just any Picard speech. That was a 10/10 Picard speech. That was every bit as good as any other iconic bit of oratory he's ever done. God damn, is he powerful when things come together. Patrick Stewart may be old, he may talk slow, he may move with frailty and he may not have a passive commanding screen presence anymore, but there are moments when he REALLY still has it. And this was one.

I'm not someone who thinks he isn't playing Picard anymore, just because he isn't playing exactly the same Picard anymore. As if 22 years of divergent experiences would have no effect on the man he once was so that he's now a somewhat different man. That just doesn't wash. Of course he is. But if you can't see the "new" Picard is built on the "old" or "familiar" Picard, and this scene didn't convince you, nothing will.

We can spend all week debating what the Borg Queen is up to out in Los Angeles now, but we don't really have any information with which to speculate. Probably won't stop us, eh?
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MossRoss
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 3:00am (UTC -5)
This is better than the past three episodes, but I still rolled my eyes over and over for this one.

- I'm still not over Renee being such a young astronaut who doesn't know how to pilot the spacecraft but is about to go on an important mission to Europa.

- I'm still don't understand why Renee not being on this mission will turn the Earth into the what we saw in episode two.

- Jurati's singing isn't necessarily out of place in a Star Trek show (Voyager's Virtuoso is one of my favorites), but it still distracted me into thinking about the writer's room and how they were probably thinking they should take full advantage of their fancy party infiltration episode and shoehorn in some sort of theatrics.

And as pointed out, I'm not sure Seven of Nine had a single line this episode. She was clearly there and in the scenes, so I'm confused why they couldn't have her say anything even if this episode aims at eliminating bloat. Instead far too much attention is given to Raffi who is turning into one of my most despised characters in the franchise. She's such an unlikeable person and brings down everyone in nearly every scene she is in.

Finally, did anyone else notice Tallinn spoke some Romulan under her breath? The closed captions confirmed it.

Anyway, at least Picard's synth body was marginally relevant to one single plot point and not completely ignored as it has been. Things could get interesting with Jurati/Borg Queen storming the city, but my expectations is for the rest of the season to remain at best as mediocre/passable as this episode.
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Colin Lindsly
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 3:01am (UTC -5)
This story line is fracked.

We have a "mad scientist" cooking up children that are genetically screwed up and can't survive past childhood, save for one for whom he is willing to kill anyone to make sure she survives.

We have a Borg queen who is inhabiting the body of a murderess and is roaming the streets of Downtown Los Angeles for something probably not good.

We have a "god" who is meddling with the timeline, again for something probably not good, and is posing as a therapist to mind frack a reluctant astronaut and is enlisting the aid of a "mad scientist" to make sure that same astronaut doesn't go into space.

We have an elderly man who is reliving the trauma of his childhood, whatever that is, and this trauma has trapped in a "comatose" state.

We are six episodes in and this is what we have. Do these idiotic writers know how to plan and execute a story in ten episodes that isn't a fracking mess?

I know that alot of people are excited about the final season of Picard. I am not one of them. I don't want to see more of the characters I grew up with put through the meat grinder.
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 3:17am (UTC -5)
If my $15,000 defibrillator got destroyed, I'd have been a touch more pissed off. Especially if I ran a clinic that didn't get Medi-Cal or insurance reimbursements.
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AMA
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 4:12am (UTC -5)
I loved the scene between Jean-Luc and Renee Picard. I deeply empathize with Renee, and I truly appreciated being able to see Jean-Luc again be the hero I grew up loving, affecting change through understanding and kindness. Like some of my other favourite scenes in all of Trek (e.g., Picard's discussion with Guinan, in 'Measure of a Man;' with Worf, at the end of 'The Drumhead;' and with Captain Dathon, after their battle with the alien in 'Darmok'), the interaction between the two was quiet yet profound. That will likely be the highlight of the season for me.

Unfortunately, everything else in the episode paled in comparison. There were nice moments here and there, and Jurati and the Queen continue to be an intriguing, albeit foreseeable, story line, but there just was not much to this episode. In fact, there hasn't been much to the last four episodes. Yes, much of what has come has been rather digestible, but, as Jammer has suggested, the story is being needlessly strung out. This season, like the most recent from Discovery, would likely work best as a mini-series, with half the number of episodes.

On a final note, last season's opening credits foreshadowed the story to come, and this season's opening seems to be doing the same, which makes me think that one of the upcoming episodes will follow Renee on her mission (bold prediction, I know), and that Locutus may return - it might just be some tricks with light, but the face that appears before Picard at the end of the credits looks like him, with something encircling his right eye. This might be some wild conjecture, but the opening credits have foretold of things to come.
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 4:46am (UTC -5)
I liked this a lot.
But again, nothing feels accomplished in this episode. Yes, the plot is going ahead - we learn more about Soong/Kore, Jurati sings and now the queen in control, Picard saves Renee, but again we do not know what happens after... surely when a "security guard" is knocked over, there is a huge ruckus... Picard is in a coma... That conversation at the end about a mind-meld and a neuro-thingy ...
Very exciting, but just more questions...
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 4:57am (UTC -5)
I'm taking the long view on things, with respect to Jean-Luc Picard. I am of the mind that the creators viewed this not so much as "Star Trek" in the classic sense but more as a character study of a character we grew up with. One who was in a bit of internal turmoil.

The first season he had to let go of anger and resentment. As the opening credits suggested, he was a bit of a broken man. The second season seems to be about fear. Though we gratifyingly see him come back a little to the Picard we used to know, as a 4-star admiral and Chancellor of the Academy, there are still things that are problematic to his psyche.

I have even higher hopes for the third season--my guess is that as he's built back up (physically and emotionally) we'll get a fully actualized Picard, supported by his new crew and (squee!) his old comrades.
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 5:10am (UTC -5)
I think the writers were having a bit of difficulty figuring out where to slice and dice the overall story into episode chunks. This episode has a run time of under 38 minutes, which is even shorter than hour-long dramas on network (42 minutes today, TNG was 44 minutes).

In fact if you take the caper preview and Jurati capture segment of Ep 5 and combined it with this one, you get about 43-44 minutes, though if you did that you'd lose the dramatic reveal of Jurati's Borg Queen sidekick.
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Norvo
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 5:17am (UTC -5)
38 minutes, short 'n sweet...

Well, mostly sweet. I still don't get how someone as emotionally frail and, frankly, unstable as Renee Picard made it this far in the space program. She should have washed out years ago, not be ready to quit a day from launching on a crucial mission.

Also, at this point, ghostly apparitions are to NuTrek what malfunctioning holodecks were to the TNG era. Picard, Raffi and Jurati are all seeing things that aren't quite there. It feels like such an overused, tiresome plotdevice by now.

I'm not sure why it was necessary to take a damaged 25th century android to a 21st century medical clinic. Well, to advance Rios' romantic subplot, sure... But it feels ridiculous when you have Talinn, aka Gabrielle Seven there with her sonic screwdriver ready to play Doctor (Who). I fear most of the next episode will be her taking a trip inside Jean-Luc's mind. More mind games. More talking. More sitting around. Yay.

As for Jurati and the Borg queen... I hope the writers will change it up. Having her end up as the new queen feels a little too predictable. Maybe the queen will run into Kore and choose her as its permanent home? Soong genetically engineered her to be the most perfect specimen of humanity anyway, Borg nanoprobes can easily correct any minor glitches in her genetic code. She'd be perfect.

And, probably not a coincidence, in Greek mythology, Kore is the birth name of Persephone, queen of the underworld. Plus, getting abandoned by the queen and shunned by her friends will give the eternally neurotic Agnes something new to mope about in season 3. We all win.
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 5:32am (UTC -5)
@Norvo,

My theory is that while Renee Picard always had anxiety issues they were for the most part under control until Q came into frame.

The tag at the end of the episode where Q is monologuing about a seemingly balanced Renee reading a Dixon Hill novel, the date on his newspaper is January 21. I think he's had a few months as the base shrink to instill a lot more self-doubt into her by April.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 6:07am (UTC -5)
@Daniel

Gotta admit, that's a good explanation.
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 6:15am (UTC -5)
I thought the Eugenics wars helped start WWIII? So if we are to assume that if Q had not intervened, Khan Noonien Singh would have come about? From this episode, its sounds like this Dr Soong will not continue with his work. He wants a "safe" universe and stop doing his work...
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Booming
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 6:35am (UTC -5)
Guys, you are trying to find a smart explanation for something that is dumb. Sure maybe Q triggered something but why go through all that. Even though at some point he lost his powers, he certainly had them at first. Why not just snap his fingers, why become her therapist? And don't think about how he became a therapist at Nasa for the most important Astronaut on the planet without using his powers. Just don't think about it. Q in itself is a mystery box now. Why does he do what he does? Why has he lost his power? Is he unstable? The mystery box approach is the storytelling pendant to "the journey is the reward". If you enjoy constantly guessing what it might be even though you know (or don't) that the actual answer won't hold up, then this for you. Mystery box uses human curiosity. The problem is that at the end we find out that we were always on a journey to "meh" which leads to these show having very little rewatchability.

This is the old Trek fandom in a nutshell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XofDSBMB9f0
just give in. :)

I wish this show wouldn't take itself so serious and accept how silly it is. It would be so much more fun. Somebody give Picard an eyepatch!!
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Tim C
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 7:08am (UTC -5)
I'm actually surprised at the positive reaction to this one I'm seeing here! I thought it was a bunch of great concepts ruined by some of the poorest, clunkiest writing I've seen in Star Trek in a loooooooong time. The only scene that worked for me was Picard meeting Picard, which was actually really great. The rest of it... gawd. I'd point out specific examples, except the entire episode was specific examples.

The scene with whats-her-name discovering Soong's history was probably the worst, though. A character I don't know or care about discovering shady things about a character I don't know or care about, speaking every thought out loud like the writers don't trust us to get it from her reactions. Absolutely terrible.

We're past the halfway mark of the season now, and unless something drastic happens in these last four episodes, I'm calling it: season one was superior. Not as much "fun" as season two, but functioning much better as a character study of an aged Picard and with a much more interesting central mystery. YMMV.
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Karl Zimmerman
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 7:57am (UTC -5)
Another slight step up for me over last week, and probably the best episode since the opening two...though still not perfect.

This episode is tight, both in terms of runtime (only 38 minutes and change) and in terms of the real-word time it takes place (save for the last few minutes, almost everything takes place within 34 minutes of "show time." Despite this, most of the episode is set aside for character scenes. The interactions between Jean-Luc and Renee were a highlight, but I quite enjoyed the extended scene between Raffi and Rios as well, even if it was clearly telegraphing Rios staying in the 21st century. Some things were lost in the shuffle - Seven had no role in this episode other than to be an extra, with a single line of dialogue near the end, but after weeks of coming up with pointless shit to keep characters busy...I am fine with this (though I'm wondering why Jeri Ryan signed on for this season).

I do feel like the episode loses a bit of focus at the end when the gala is over, and they start shuffling back and forth between the clinic and the Soongs (with the final shot of Jurati). There were several logical spots to end the episode - but it just kept going. Kore's discovery that she's not a "daughter" per se, but some sort of failed experiment no doubt plays a role in the actual POD, since the second episode showcased a giant Adam Soong statue with his voice saying "a safe galaxy is a human galaxy." Maybe with Q's help he perfects his augment technology, and it's universally applied on Earth, paving the way for the Confederation?

Tallinn still isn't doing it for me. They dropped another few hints that she's actually a Romulan, but...she doesn't seem like a person to me still, just a plot conveyance. I mean, it's just too implausible that an alien with access to advanced technology would do nothing but snoop on Renee for 24 years straight. I guess we'll get some development of her next episode inside Picard's brain - where hopefully we get some conclusion to his childhood trauma arc (this time I swear I saw friggin demons, which suggests these are not things which happened literally to Jean Luc in childhood, just his shadowed remembrances.

As an episode, then, it was fine. But as part of a serialized arc, it was a bit frustrating. The episode didn't really resolve anything, and didn't answer any major questions. With Renee in quarantine now until launch I suppose that section of the narrative is done at least. But so many balls are in the air now between what assimilated Jurati will do, what's going in in Picard's head, what Soong is actually up to...and what the real POD is, since they seem to have ensured Renee will go through with the launch, yet the timeline doesn't appear to be "fixed."

Three stars?
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Sigh2000
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 8:16am (UTC -5)
Colonel Green from TOS' The Savage Curtain. Question: Didn't he have something to do with WW III? Not a nice guy.
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Top Hot
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 8:31am (UTC -5)
It’s funny that TOS’s inconsistent details with regard to WWIII and the Eugenics Wars have had such fallout a half century later.
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John Harmon
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 8:33am (UTC -5)
@sigh2000 yes Colonel Green was a tyrant. He's shown in Enterprise as well
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 9:53am (UTC -5)
People hundreds of years in the future will look at these historical cultural archives and chuckle about how we were so prescient about some things but laughably wrong about what will happen in the 23rd-25th century.
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Calth
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 10:44am (UTC -5)
Was that shuttle that Renee described the one from the title sequence of Enterprise?
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Galadriel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 10:52am (UTC -5)
“… how much worse could it possibly get?”

From the point of narrative flow, this was a further im­prove­ment after the dud two weeks ago. But I fear the story itself is not worth telling, or in other words, we have entered serious Discovery S2 territory.

Like the timelie itself, that gets replaced while people live in it, the story seems to change retroactively. Picard said in 1x01 “A great-great cousin Renée Picard was instrumental in early exploration of this solar system” (16:12). Later that same Renée Picard is called an “ancestor” by the Estonian Watcher (2x05, 4:12). Both cannot be true, right?

Who made the confederation timeline? If it was Q, why did he move people back to undo it? Or wasn’t that his plan back in 2x02, when he lectured Picard at the Châ­teau about the ter­ri­ble past? Has he switched sides since? It is hinted that the Con­federa­tion timeline came into being against Q’s wish (“Show them a world of their own making and they ask you what you've done”, 2x02, 2:55), but given that Renée was of some im­­por­­tan­ce in the Fe­dera­tion timeline, why is he op­pos­ing her histori­cal mission?

Picard said “All that's known about Renée is she discovered a micro­organism on Io that she believed was sentient and con­vinced the mis­sion com­man­der to bring it back to Earth” (2x05, 34:30). Now Europa≠Io, and there is a small chance that Renée taking part in the Europa mission would lead to the Con­federa­tion, while her wait­ing to join a later Io mission would re­open the Fe­­dera­­tion timeline.

Yet this seems un­rea­son­able. Why should NASA send two manned spacecrafts to the Jovian Moons within a short timespan? It would be easier to build a larger one, with separate teams that go for each moon of Jupiter separately. Really, the Jovian Moons are not far away from each other.

And even if our heroes are wrong and supporting Renée to join the Europa mission would in fact lead to the Confederation timeline, Q’s actions still make little sense if he really wants the Federation. Q seems to support Adam Soong, although Soong is pretty much tied to the Con­federa­tion and not remembered in the Fe­dera­tion.

So I don’t understand the story. I fear that at the end of the season I will have learned there never was one.

And then there is the pain. The pain of disappoint­ment. Rios loves the 21ˢᵗ century because, I guess, the food tastes “amazing” (what a tasteless colloquialism in itself, 2x06, 11:57) and the ladies are hotter. Com­pare that to STIV, where Gillian Taylor wanted to go to the future because it’s new, exciting, full of know­ledge to be gathered and things to be marveled at. But PIC celebrates to present over the future. I never thought Trek could fall to so uninspiring levels.

I also hated the “34, 26, 14 min earlier” gimmick, the demons de­vou­ring Picards mother, the re­feren­ces to Laris and the Elnor cameo. And the per­ma­nent im­pli­ca­tions that staying single is somehow evil. And I am not pleased by seeing Isa Briones play two cha­rac­ters with the same problem (not knowing what they are); it just seems repetitive.
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Sigh2000
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 11:12am (UTC -5)
@John Harmon

Thanks for the information. I know practically nothing about Enterprise. The Memory Alpha entry makes Green sound just awful.
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Chrome
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 11:55am (UTC -5)
A remarkably short entry with an oddly placed ticking clock a la “24”. I can’t say the brevity was a blessing, myself. It seems like the show could’ve benefitted from fleshing out the material for a few characters. For example, why not talk about Seven’s feelings about being fully human or give us some more info on Teresa (especially considering she’s her role fixing Picard's heart in this episode). The clock itself was meant to add drama to the episode but with danger lurking about every corner, is it really that surprising something bad would knock Picard unconscious?

What worked were two knockout performances by Stewart and Pill. Seriously, I think this is Stewart’s best performance in PIC so far and it excels some his silver screen performances. Picard’s speech here, an eloquent and gentle entry, briefly gives some insight into Picard’s fears as well as some advice about how the audience can handle their own. Renee’s troubles seem to be assuaged by her talk with Picard but again the episode is too brief to really know for certain.

Not to give her second billing, but Pill’s performance was also excellent this week. Was that really her singing? If so, it’s such a fun moment that it almost makes the entire episode worth the admission fee. I guess even when this show’s story has holes like swiss cheese the actors somehow make it worth it.

Soong makes a half-hearted attempt to kill Renee. Presumably – and it’s a travesty this isn’t somewhere in the dialogue – Q’s first attempt to derail time by therapy worked but he needed Soong to come in to stop Picard himself. At least, that explains Soong knowing about JL.

Raffi keeps seeing Elnor in random places and, at this rate, it’s probably more than just her memory playing tricks on her. I can’t think of anything offhand in the Romulan culture that would bring Elnor back, but with time travel we can assume anything’s possible.
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 12:28pm (UTC -5)
@Galadriel

I think the Q of it all is supposed to be a 4D type thing--in that Q is simultaneously the enemy and the ally, with themes of "All Good Things" in that it's both what Picard does and doesn't do that results in life on Earth not coming into being.

This time I think Q probably both screwed things up and tries to fix things. Picard self-destructing a ship within a subspace rift probably did something harmful to the Universe to ultimately cause Q to lose his powers, and in trying to eliminate Picard from history to avert it he also put the events in motion to cause the Borg ship to open the rift that caused Picard to self destruct, etc... Predestination paradox in which Q gets trapped because he loses his powers.

I think you're right, though about it not being so much that Renee Picard is prevented from going on the mission but that by enlisting Soong, he empowers the very madman that results in the Confederation timeline.

The thing about repairing a time-travel paradox story is that the goal in the end is to make it as if the disruptive events never happened in the first place. It's like tugging on something that looks like a knot but it's a slipknot, and the string snaps back straight.

With Rios, I don't think he's pining for the 21st century at all--he like most of Starfleet and probably the Federation have grown up on replicated food. His cigars were probably the synthehol equivalent of the real thing. In DS9 the whole Eddington saga firmly established what TNG suggested all along, that the replicator puts together a matrix of proteins, fats, and carbohydrates from a recipe. Not the same thing as a quantum-identical copy, which would be data-storage prohibitive.* Pretty girl aside, Rios hasn't had a very happy experience in Los Angeles. The whole tenor of everyone's experiences is that it's really bad in 2024. Picard pleads with Guinan to not give up on humanity, promising that it will get better.



*Post-scarcity society probably means that the Federation replicates a lot of their food. If you didn't *have* to work to earn an income, I'd imagine it would be a lot easier and ecologically better to synthesize major food staples instead of convincing people to volunteer for a farming force. I mean you can beam grapes onto hover trucks, but people still need to supervise the planting and operate the machinery.
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Jaxon
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 12:40pm (UTC -5)
When I realize that the entire TNG cast is going to be subjected to this next season...oof.
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 12:51pm (UTC -5)
The song choice for Jurati (Pat Benatar's "Shadows of the Night") was especially inspired, considering what's happening to her.


"We're running with the shadows of the night
So baby, take my hand, you'll be alright
Surrender all your dreams to me tonight
They'll come true in the end..."
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Jaxon
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 1:10pm (UTC -5)
In TNG's "Family" its clear that real food is still a commodity in the late 24th century.

We know that there are Federation planets that are farms in their entirety, since Worf grew up on one, Gault, with the Rozhenkos before they moved to Belarus later on.
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Mike Lindell
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 1:26pm (UTC -5)
Not as meandering as the last couple eps, but i'm really disapointed that the first two eps were the only really good ones so far. Since Terry Matalas was more involved with those two, I have hope for season 3. But this season is pretty middling right now.
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Galadriel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 2:56pm (UTC -5)
@ Daniel

Yes, the idea that Q doesn’t know what he’s doing may­be makes some sense. I got the idea that the attack on the Borg ship might have to do with his loss of power; perhaps, it damaged the Q con­ti­nu­um in some weird way. Now he might be out of options and might pre­fer any­thing, even the Con­federa­tion, over that timeline.

But he really should know better and not follow the dumb foot­prints of Nero or the Diviner, both of which had an easy way to pre­vent the disaster they were fleeing from, but both of them chose to em­bark on a stu­pid mission instead. And this would give him no mo­ti­va­tion to send Picard & Co back to the past (I as­sume he did).

Rios is an enigma to me. As you say correctly, with all his ex­pe­ri­en­ces he should not love 2024 L.A., but the epis­ode clear­ly says he does. And he is back to the clinic called “Las Mari­posas” (30:18), which I am sure in­di­cates that he is going to unleash a me­tric ton of but­ter­flies (whether by staying in the past or just im­preg­nat­ing the doc­tor I know not).

Had I seen this season five years ago, I’d have engaged in spe­cula­tion and expec­ted that the mystery will have solved satis­fying­ly by the end. Now, I am lacking the Faith of the Heart. Is that what Star Trek teaches its audience?
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 3:25pm (UTC -5)
Annoyances: wasnt anyone concerned about Jurati? Maybe thats the whole point - no-one cares about Jurati
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 4:44pm (UTC -5)
@Galadriel

Yeah, I think why Back to the Future and the Avengers Endgame/MCU works with respect to their timeline/multiverse capers is that the time travel rules are lined out at precisely the right time, which lets the audience in on the ride. Not realizing that the contemporary audience is burned out on mystery boxes means that they fall victim to knowing how the story ends before they start writing, thinking they're being clever.

As for Rios, I think they were trying to do two things with mixed results. They wanted him to experience some of the horrors of the Sanctuary District version of the 21st Century, along with the attendant social commentary. At the same time, they wanted him to connect with "us" in the 21st Century by having him be enamored of some of the things the ancients experienced (e.g., real food and cigars). The closest I can make a connection to existing Trek precedent is Tom Paris in Future's End I/II. If I'm not mistaken, Paris' expertise of the 20th Century became canonized after these episodes. The romance thing is de rigueur for Trek Time Travel(TM) stories by now, and also makes us wonder if it's going to be a Gillian Taylor thing or Edith Keeler.

Maybe Rios is drawn to Theresa because if he doesn't knock her up, he'll fade away from history?
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Ron Burgundy
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 4:46pm (UTC -5)
I've had foreplay that lasted longer than this episode. Of course, the brandy played a part. Hehehe, junior high was fun!!
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Chewable_Vitamin_C
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 4:59pm (UTC -5)
GABBO IS COMING.
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Sj82
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 5:06pm (UTC -5)
How dumb.

I’m shocked how far they are leaning into dumb.

What some above wrote as the highlight - Picard meeting Picard - was the poor actor subjected to cliched and overtired generalities. In the darkest of times, there is a light? Thanks gandalf

Jurati singing? Whiplash. Absolutely no sense of tone or tempo in the story’s pacing and control. Her striding through the street possessed by the Queen is ludicrous. So is the quippy Queen perched on Agnes arm - how demeaning to the once creepy and mysterious Borg.

I’m trying to be gentle in my criticism as I only wish for this show to be good - I want it to be good because I loved Star Trek.

But this is laughably horrible
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Chewable_Vitamin_C
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 5:16pm (UTC -5)
"Like all dreamers, I mistook disenchantment for truth."
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Ron Burgundy
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 5:49pm (UTC -5)
I'm confused. The Borg Queen likes sex. But her entire species are gray-faced, ugly drones with cables sticking out of their fun spaces.
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Unionise_Now
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 6:45pm (UTC -5)
@Sj82

https://64.media.tumblr.com/480471434e4682647420f1699c51aec8/d5f973e94496493b-66/s640x960/267a395f2487205e53427b2ca00b1971db735627.gif
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Mike M.
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 6:52pm (UTC -5)
How did Alison Pill grow up in Canada and get a Georgia twang in her singing voice? Not really complaining, just genuinely curious if it’s common for Canadians to share accents with The South.
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Daniel
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 7:10pm (UTC -5)
Country music has quite a bit of a following in Canada--they've even got their own artists and subgenres--not to say that that was Pill's influence or anything.

I didn't realize how amazing of a singer Alison Pill was. I just remembered she was in Scott Pilgrim's band. Poking around the YouTube, I found this:

Time After Time (The Book of Daniel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ4450POnFs
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Rahul
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 8:28pm (UTC -5)
Definitely the best PIC S2 episode since the season opener (which isn't saying much) as the story starts to tie up some loose ends, no frenetic jarring pacing, and the overall arc's story makes more progress. Still some odd moments of downtime and manufactured drama hold things back, but this is a decent outing for PIC S2.

Starting with Adam Soong -- he's now a tragic figure. Was compelling when Kore starts going through his computer files and wondering what she is -- just like Isa's character in PIC S1, I suppose. I have to question why Soong would try to run over Renee instead of resorting to any of a number of less obvious ways of killing her. But we needed to get to Picard's childhood memories which resurface again since his subconscious remains active while he lies in hospital.

I gotta say Orla Brady is one beautiful woman. I thought Raffi's character was pretty much back to normal after the chit-chat with Rios, which seemed like time-wasting -- but Rios seems to have these moments with every woman (Jurati, Dr. Teresa...). But then Raffi has to be forcedly obstinate about Tallinn going into Picard's subconscious when it seems like the only alternative. The writing for Raffi's character is all over the place.

The Borg Queen looks like she got the upper hand on Jurati, but I'm betting on Jurati having the last laugh. These 2 continue to be one of the highlights of the season. How to play Jurati to get those endorphins... Thought it was pretty stupid when Jurati turns into a lounge singer, but it had its purpose. And they had to go for the ending with Jurati/BQ walking barefoot all menacing on the streets of LA... (cliche). But Pill showed a pretty good range of acting and she's impressing me (not just with her dress).

One thing to watch out for with nu-Trek is manufactured tension -- shit like Jurati having to upload the data of the Picard etc. into the system just as Rios is getting scanned...as if she won't get it done on time. Just like as if she won't manage to get the transporters to work in time etc. Don't fall for that crap.

Picard imparts his wisdom to Renee, "fear is fear", "capable of great things", the fragility of someone who is a high achiever -- all good stuff. To me this is the kind of thing we should get more of from the PIC series -- quality little tidbits.

2.5 stars for "Two of One" -- the season arc definitely has some promising components going for it, and the good is starting to outweigh the mediocre/bad. I think we should get back to more analysis of Picard, though have to wonder what Q's next step is since Soong failed him. And what role will Kore play now? It is kind of weird seeing familiar actors in different roles but with more episodes it may pay off. PIC is about fan service primarily after all -- the overall story is secondary - just look at what PIC S3 is all about.
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Bryan
Thu, Apr 7, 2022, 11:08pm (UTC -5)
It's not the best indicator of the quality of a series when the shorter the run time, the better. To praise the show because it cut out a lot of the pointless filler is not to hit on its "tighter focus" because that would require it to have more essential material to focus upon to begin with. This episode is mostly just diversion and party chit-chat and not a whole lot happens that we don't already know; it's merely a bridge to more substantive things to come, presumably.

- "I couldn't kill our one chance to get home." This is the same logic behind it having to be the BQ they took with them to the past. It bugged me then and it still bugs me now. Also, if you're going to Save the Future, you might just have to take one for the team and languish in the past. Though, so far it looks like this group is having so much fun that staying a while longer wouldn't be such a bad thing.

- Picard asks Not-Laris out of the blue, "Who watches over you?" Not-Laris is understandingly nonplussed and needs a moment to diffuse the Awkward.

- Even Not-Laris is concerned that Renee isn't ready for the mission and she's been watching Renee for all her life...I believe that tells you all you need to know.

- I wasn't moved by the Picard speech. Feeling the fear and doing it anyway is tired Self Help 101. People who "loved" this scene have really lowered the bar of their expectations; not that I particularly blame them.

- How does Jurati does she have a built-in EM-pulse thing just from having the BQ's consciousness transferred over.....ughhh nevermind, the harder you think about the tech stuff in this series, the bigger your headache.

- And what about the band? When someone crashes your party and all the lights go out, it is standard practice accompany them when they start singing? Trope-wise this isn't unheard of, but it would have helped if they had cut to the band seeming disoriented for a moment before someone signals them to start playing anyway. Otherwise, it felt so surreal that I thought we were in a dream sequence.

- "Finally, the endorphins I needed!" Go figure that in Nu-Trek, even Borg Queens are powered by FEELINGS.

- Dear God, the writers must really think we're stupid if we need constant flashback reminders of what just happened in the previous episode.

- LOL @ Q enlisting a brilliant geneticist/inventor to stop Picard because who better to run Picard over with their car than a SOONG...?

- "Dad, it's me. Why are you talking like this?" Why, indeed. Blame the writers.

- I got the sense that Not-Soji was only just NOW googling her father and finding out about him being a Mad Scientist, which may not have been the intent but it still felt pretty silly.

Okay, new prediction: Picard and Q have their fateful confrontation only after Renee has a meltdown in space and fails the Europa mission. Q smugly but rightfully lambasts Picard for downplaying the importance of mental health by thinking he can reduce it to a matter of self-confidence that can be fixed with one of his trite little speeches, O 'Wisest of them all'!

The sheer fucking hubris!
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Frank A. Booze
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 12:38am (UTC -5)
If the Borg Queen is in control of Jurati, why not start assimilating people as quickly as possible? At the end of the episode it sounds like there are a bunch of voices in Jurati’s head. I take it she already has?
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Robert
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 4:09am (UTC -5)
This show is a mess, I don't even know what I'm watching anymore. I feel like I'm watching episodes of Lost. So many open-ended plot devices with likely no real intention to resolve them satisfactorily. They are clearly going to carry this over to next season. All this wasted air time on... what exactly? Running around a bunch, and not even meaningful running around.

The only good thing about this episode was Picard's conversation with Renee. That was a hat-tip to old Trek when they made time for actual dialogue. It took us 6 episodes to get to that moment.

The biggest tragedy is how wasted Seven of Nine is. She probably has the highest IQ and the most collective knowledge of anyone in the group, and she barely says a word.

I'm pretty much treating this show as non-Trek at this point. It has some Trek names like Picard, Seven of Nine, a Borg Queen, and Q. If those characters weren't in this season, would it even be recognizable as Trek?

I find myself liking Crios the most because at least he appears acclimatized to his own character. Everyone else continues to be so oddly misplaced.

What a mess. What an absolute mess.
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Eric Jensen
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 4:58am (UTC -5)
//I feel like I'm watching episodes of Lost. So many open-ended plot devices with likely no real intention to resolve them satisfactorily.//

Exactly. I think its because we have gotten used to the episodic nature of Star Trek it feels dragged out. Which in itself is not a problem, but I suppose we have some answers but it is not satisfactory - PIC is going off a tangent and we do not know what or how it leads to the "answer"
1. we know who the watcher is, but where is the pro-active measures to ensure time is on the correct path? The Watcher does not intervene directly and all we get is earlobe anxiety
2. are we really sure Renee should go on the mission - we don't know what is supposed to happen - what happens if she finds the microbes? What are the events that lead to a better future? The Bell Riots has to happen but we knew what happened and what should happen...
Brent Spiner has always played ancestors of Soong...
3. What does Kore have to do with any of this... What does Soong have anything to do with this? Picard met Soong during the gala and THAT MOMENT was tense...
Obviously there are many plot threads -A. Soong did not fulfil Q's objectives, but that has lead to a NEW path in the time-line, where Kore figured what Soong was up to. B. Borg queen getting control of Jurati - another contamination in the time-line. C. Rios meeting Theresa - will anything happen there?? Will they fall in love?? What... Any changes in the time-line?
If Q has no more control of his powers, then maybe that is the reason this is dragged out. Q cannot snap his fingers and it cannot go back to normal.
So yeah, as someone pointed out earlier, maybe Q is trying to FIX everything WITHOUT his powers...? But it does not feel like that way because Q is doing everything he can to stop Renee...
The Eugenics Wars/Augments play a huge role obviously, but what? We are getting snippets, bits and pieces, which again is not a problem in itself, but has it been 3 days? What happened to the number 15? We got the exposition and the development is wandering aimlessly, but there is no any satisfactory resolution.
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Artymiss
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 5:42am (UTC -5)
That was bloody awful.
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Booming
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 5:52am (UTC -5)
Another amusing little detail. The youngest astronaut ever was 25 when he went and his space flight lasted a little more than a day. The Apollo 11 astronauts on average were a little over 40. The average age of an astronaut today is 34. :)

Why make Renee Picard so young?
It's so baffling that they do these things.
The disinterest in actual space flight. They obviously have their interns to look up references to include in the show, why not have a few interns research the basics of space flight??

But when I look at this scene from the writers room, I'm not really surprised.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiR4XPQVA_8
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Artymiss
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 5:58am (UTC -5)
And it's only just occurred to Corey that there's something dodgy about dad and to log into the pc to see what's going on?! Amazing how she managed to find all those files so quickly and get into them so easily. I would've thought Soong would be a bit more security conscious...

Atrocious script.
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Chappity
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 6:52am (UTC -5)
About the best thing in this episode was Picard's speech to Rene. The rest seemed like filler.

As @Robert mentions, the show is basically trying everything, going every which way like "Lost."

It seems like most of the characters are just being taken for a ride, thrown this way and that. Plot contrivances and twists upon twists galore, just to keep the viewers hanging in there for some kind of resolution in the end.

I'm not sure they know what kind of story they're trying to tell any more.
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Booming
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 7:13am (UTC -5)
I enjoyed this quite a bit. Great Schlock! When Picard was hit by Adolf Soong's car I laughed for a minuted straight and quite a bit afterwards.

Next episode Inception.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA5YlOXJ_PQ
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MidshipmanNorris
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 8:24am (UTC -5)
It was an alright ep, I'd give it 2.5 stars...

But Pat Benatar? Gag me with a spoon... 2 stars. I do not understand anyone's obsession with Pat Benatar, bar none. Yuck.
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Galadriel
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 8:42am (UTC -5)
@ Chappity

I do not share your enthusiasm about the speech Picard gave to Renée. Yes, it was good, because *we* know that Picard knows what he is talk­ing about; he has seen and over­come fear more than once, an we have wit­nes­sed that. But Renée has no idea of any of that; for her, its just an old guy, pos­sib­ly a kind one, se­cret­ing a thick syrup of what must ap­pear plati­tudes to her. So why was she con­vinc­ed? Lazy writing, I guess.
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Colin Lindsly
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 9:09am (UTC -5)
They had an opportunity to make a reference to something related to the Eugenics War, namely, the DY ships. I would have thought that their display of past historic spacecraft would have included a reference to one of the DYs. Nada.

From what little I can read from the placards, it seems to be heavily Americentric. The placard mentions Alan Shepard, the 1968 mission of Apollo 8, the 1969 mission of Apollo 11, and the space shuttle orbiters. There is no mention of any other nation's contribution to manned space flight. For a mission that is supposedly multi-national like the Europa Mission, for their placards to be so heavily biased might be construed as offensive.

What I find lacking in Picard is imagination. They had a chance to portray a post-Hermosa Quake LA; instead, we got a cheap establishing shot with buildings replaced with CGI creations that stick out for their artificiality. They had to go to a game developer to get additional ship designs and to a model manufacturer to get existing ship designs. They had a chance to link the various facts about late 20th century and early 21st century Earth in their displays on manned space flight. Each chance they had, they blew it. That is the world-building and the visuals. About everything else, it shows the same level of incompetency.

Lower Decks has been nominated for a Hugo Award for one of its episodes, the one with the five ships (Borg, Federation, Klingon, Vulcan, Pakled) where we saw the lives of the lower deckers. I have seen this episode and it shows a far greater attention to all the things that matter then Picard has done so far.
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Karl Zimmerman
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 9:57am (UTC -5)
I feel like where Season 1 had aspirations of being "prestige television" - aspirations which largely failed due to terrible B plots (like the whole Elnor/Hugh/Seven adventure on the Artifact) and an underwhelming finale, this season is...embracing that it's middlebrow television. It doesn't have any delusions of grandeur, unlike Discovery, which is very self-important even when it's pabulum. I'm not taking the show seriously because I don't even think the writers are taking it super seriously.
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Jammer
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 12:15pm (UTC -5)
Review now posted.
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Skylar
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 12:16pm (UTC -5)
It's taken me a long time to figure out why I sometimes like the ten-hour movie concept for shows but sometimes hate it. The Picard series suffers from the weekly release format. It makes things like the Rios immigration plot feel like an eternity because it occupies so much time in the 40-50 minutes per week we get to see these characters advance the main plot.

After the season is finished, I'm going to binge watch this second series of episodes on a weekend a la Netflix and see if it is a more enjoyable experience.
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The Queen
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 12:47pm (UTC -5)
I was not impressed with this one. It didn't seem actively bad, but it didn't hook me in, which all the others so far have done despite any faults. It put all the unexplainables of Star Trek into one inedible stew: Q, the god who is dying; time travel, extremely high on the Impossibles List, but a great way to not have to worry about details; the Borg assimilation process; and finally, the VULCAN mind meld in yet another non-Vulcan avatar. Is it now just mental Reiki that can be learned by anyone?

I thought the Jurati lipsynch scene was painfully horrible. A song about courageously overcoming fear was delivered like a torch song she was embarrassed about. Up to now I thought Pill was a good actor, but maybe there wasn't much she could do with that terrible cover.

The highlight for me was the J-L vs. Renee scene, and for more than just the dialogue. J-L told her to look up (just as his mother always told him to do) at the ship, and she proved she loved it - just as he had loved the Enterprise. And "Fear is fear, it doesn't speak in riddles" was outstanding. I did think it was too much for him to identify HIMSELF as "the wisest of the wise" - he would never have done that. And yes, I thought she was persuaded too easily. Maybe another minute could have been spent on that. But “Even in the darkest circumstance, there is a light. Trust that light” seemed to be a subtle echo of “The Inner Light.” Finally, I admired the background view of the astronaut suit as she agreed. I expect a lot of this was thanks to Jonathan Frakes.

In other news - Kore is only now looking into her history? And it's all available so easily, even her father's diary? This is as bad as Disco season 2 where Spock went into hiding but left his diary unlocked. No. No. No. See Artymis's comment above.

And what is a doctor at a homeless clinic doing with her "hands in his chest"? Open heart massage? I doubt it, first because she wouldn't know how, second because of this: "Open chest cardiac massage offers no benefit over closed chest compressions in patients with traumatic cardiac arrest." (Title of a medical journal article from 2016) But mainly because she wouldn't know how, and it no doubt takes a team of professionals.

Finally, how did Soong know to be driving at the right place and time? I know, don't ask.

Ron Burgundy: "I'm confused. The Borg Queen likes sex. But her entire species are gray-faced, ugly drones with cables sticking out of their fun spaces." So you think only pretty people like sex? Huh. Are you pretty?

Chrome - Soong knows about Jean-Luc because Q told him.

Galadriel - A great-great-whatever cousin is not a direct ancestor, but if it were me I wouldn't feel stupid to call her an ancestor just for shorthand.

Norvo - "And, probably not a coincidence, in Greek mythology, Kore is the birth name of Persephone, queen of the underworld. " Thanks for this hint, I think it's important.

Daniel: Defibrillators are available online at $1500 - $2500. Still not a throwaway for a homeless clinic, of course. Also, your thoughts about what's going on make the most sense to me of anyone's. Please keep posting.

Anyone: Who is this "Seven" you're all talking about?
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mosley
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 12:47pm (UTC -5)
Mildly entertaining. I guess that's OK, but considering that we are witnessing the last hours of the Picard character on screen, it kind of feels like a waste of this precious time.

First wo this season felt like they were finally embracing the idea to tell a storyline in the post 90s trek universe, which 20 years later remains by far the most flushed out, nuanced and interesting backdrop that star trek could have access to yet weirdly refused to ever use it.

Why do I have to watch stories about a fictional universe within a fictional universe that I do not care about? This is clearly a year of hell / Q Alternative reality type thing with a giant reset button at the end, so it feels difficult to care about any of these proceedings.


I can only hope that if they use the entire TNG cast next season (finally. Such a genius idea. Nobody could have ever thought of that before, amiright?), the sheer weight of all these characters living in the established trek universe will draw them to finally,, once and for all, tell a story in that universe. Can we please just have a trek crew do trek things in the trek universe, *and* in the regular trek timeline? Is that really so hard? Enough with the sequels, the sequels who regret being a sequel and jump into a too far future (only to then claim that basically nothing has changed), a sequel to a sequel and what have you.


It's so stupid. Especially considering the 10 hour format and binge watching streaming world of today. Nothing would be more perfect for that type of storytelling than a fleshed out, nuanced universe with depth like the universe that you established over the course of over 500 episodes.

Did anything in the multi episode arc at the end of ds9 feel like this? No, it didn't. There's a reason for that. If only the producers would get it. They clearly don't.


Ah well. Still not as bad as discovery. But of course that's not saying much.

Too bad. I really liked the first episode.
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Jaxon
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 12:51pm (UTC -5)
Jammer said:

The "sit at the computer and discover awful things" trope felt hackneyed and played out. (Incidentally, the first time I remember this being done really well was in Clear and Present Danger (1994), which of course looks hopelessly dated now"


The scene where "Michael Kenmore" discovers what he really is in Stargate Atlantis was done very well, and flowed organically from plot.
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The Queen
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 1:04pm (UTC -5)
Just read Jammer's review, and I'm keeping this phrase for future use:

"The advancement of plot is mostly illusory." Heehee.

One point I forgot to make - in the last memory-flash that J-L has, I got the feeling that his mother may be having a psychotic break and has to be taken to a mental hospital, and that J-L is going to let them. Now that would be a great guilt trip for him to have. Even if he tried to stop them and couldn't, a child that age would feel like it was his fault.
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Mal
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 1:30pm (UTC -5)
Star Trek: Picard
season 2 episode 6

Two of One

“He’s had some transplants.”

- yes, Seven does have 1 line


2 stars (out of 4 - holy shit, I agree with @Jammer!)


Jonathan Frakes once again makes the best of a bad situation. The short run-time, snappy direction, and ample Tits & Ass (or more like milky thigh) make this mess eminently watchable. But as far as an episode of Star Trek is concerned, what trash.

There is a scene that actually starts quite nicely, with Raafi at the bar struggling not to order a drink. She orders a club soda instead. And Rios comes over to check up on her. Cause he’s one of the good guys (“good guys never say that”). He’ll soon be checking up on Agnes (cleavage alert!), and of course he is really there to make sure Renee is a-okay (aside from her legs, which are absolutely a-okay).

Then Rios has a few key lines: the cigar. Perfect, cause that’s certainly been a consistent character trait, and it mimics how Americans react when the finally travel abroad and have a real Cuban cigar (the authentic item not being sold legally in the US because of long-standing sanctions against the fucking commies). Then Rios moves on to the matches in the match box. Cute. He is certainly very charismatic. And his boyish glee is both endearing, and appropriate for someone crushing hard.

But then he talks about the 21st century traffic. Noise, honks. And the food tastes so intense. And suddenly I realize they are writing this entire time-travel arc like a Westerner visiting some third-world country. Sure it is loud and dirty. But the food! And the the hot chicas!!

And of course it suddenly makes sense that they are all at the ball of the season, all gussied up.

This isn’t Mal and Kaylee, crashing a mighty fine Shindig on Firefly. These are Westerners who expect to immediately be invited to all the society parties when they land up in a third-world country.

You might be an awkward introvert drinking at a bar alone back home (like Agnes), but in the third-world, you’re in a tight red dress (boobs alert!) and can just break into song in a middle of a ball.

You might be a semi-exiled Ranger (like Seven) back home, but here “without all the baggage” you’re just another blonde in a pretty dress. No need to even hear you speak.

And on and on.

That’s not to say that there aren’t a few good aspects to this episode.

The ongoing Borg/Agnes mind-fuck games continue to be surprisingly engaging.

And it was a pleasure to see hot chica doctor again, even if (1) it makes no sense for her to be in the episode - are you saying a 25th century biobed isn’t way better than a 21st century free ransacked clinic?!?! and (2) in what world does it make sense for her to scream “everybody out!” when these are the only people who know what Picard is?

Oh well. Maybe it really was, as @Daniel says, her getting super pissed that a defibrillator just broke.

Finally, let’s chat a second about the central moment in the episode. No I’m not talking about Picard giving Picard a pep talk. El Capitan has sent more than one young woman to her death (see “Lower Decks”), so we know he has that schtick down cold.

No, I’m talking about Dr. Soong, I presume. There is a moment where he is invited onto the Board thanks to his recent investment in the mission. And I’m thinking, is this Europa or Twitter?!?

If it weren’t for the Star Trek brand, no one would watch any of these actors do their things (well, except Rios and Seven, who are both actually talented). But alas it is. And so we watch, even though in a 38 minute episode, they still manage to wedge in an entire arc that drags and is ridiculous: Soong’s daughter googling him for the first time, and going through old videos on his desktop. Bo-ring!

God, I’m dreading that next week will just be a worse version of "Extreme Measures”, roaming around Sloan’s mind. But it is Star Trek. And so I will be watching.

In dread.
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Jason R.
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 1:45pm (UTC -5)
Entertaining comments! I am going to skip this episode. I am just so bored with this series. If the comments and Jammer's reviews indicate something is worth watching, I will do that.

Definitely will not be watching Season 3.
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Chrome
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 1:46pm (UTC -5)
@The Queen
"Chrome - Soong knows about Jean-Luc because Q told him."

Yes, I gathered that much. The point I was making is that Q interfered with the timeline once with Renee, and then after realizing Picard would come to correct that time corruption, he called for backup in the form of Soong.

It's a mess at this point though. Where's Emmett Brown's chalkboard when we really need it? :-)
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Jammer
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 1:56pm (UTC -5)
@Chrome, I'll tell you what. The Emmett Brown chalkboard scene was a masterstroke. Sure, it may have been pure exposition, but Marty needed it, so did the audience, and it was perfectly explained and wonderfully delivered. It's precisely what this season of Picard is NOT doing by NOT establishing any clear ground rules of what Q's "game" is and what the hell all its participants are in it for. Instead, it's an arbitrary mess of "meh, whatever."
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Peter G.
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 2:14pm (UTC -5)
Exposition in itself isn't a bad thing. Shakespeare and all the greats knew they needed exposition, and the art of it was to get the background details into the mix in an entertaining way. Instead of having some peasant just tell us about Denmark and Norway, we have guards in Hamlet searching for a ghost late at night, meeting a friend (Horatio) to shed light, and talking about conspiracies and shadows. That is highly engaging to the imagination, in addition to setting up the first scene in court.

What a lot of media these days miss out on is that exposition can be fun, so long as it does its job while being written correctly. The Star Wars sequels, for instance, seemed to take it for granted that exposition is useless and bogs down the action, hence three films that contain a series of 1-2-3 plot-driven action points that play more like a cheesy video game level than a film because they have no world to inhabit and no contextual backing for any story turn. I can think back to the days of old NES games like Double Dragon or Ghosts and Goblins. You scroll to the next screen and see a ninja trying to kill you - what is his problem?! Well no time to ask that, gotta deal with him and move on! For a side-scroller that is ok, I guess, but for a motion picture not so much. And likewise for a long-form motion picture, which is what serialized TV or streaming shows have become.

I am on board with calling foul when TV fails in its job, although contrary to some I don't think it's due to any ideology or intellectual notion. It's just having low standards and being bad at your craft, while being good at making money. Mix those together and you get dreck that people will watch (for a time). Netflix series are rife with this.
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P Car
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 2:19pm (UTC -5)
Quite the number of issues.

1) Teresa never asks how the hell Rios escaped from ICE and how the hell he got himself to a party with mega security and famous NASA astronauts.
2) Jazz band kicks in despite not knowing anything about this performance
3) Strange alien face appears in Picard’s memories or am I mistaken?
4) Why does Elbore keep turning up?
5) How did everyone witness this collision? And where did Renee disappear to? ‘Tell security guy, thanks for saving my life, I’m just off to quarantine.’ No mention of any concern or future contact from her.
6) Seven has one line. Nods approval.
7) Kore - what?
8) Jurati’s mysterious device has no effect on her
9) Teresa angry so she fall in love later.
10) Hurd is depressing and depressed

They need to put Seven in charge.
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P Car
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 2:59pm (UTC -5)
By the way, can anyone else think of a time travel story where someone who is meant to be hit by a car is saved by someone else from the future, who is related to that person, and then they dream about their mother? Next thing you know we’ll see Lea Thompson in an e… wait
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James_B
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 4:32pm (UTC -5)
Hello all, long time lurker first time poster. Just a quick commment to throw out a random thought on the direction of the story. Calling it now, Tallinn while she just met Picard in the 21st Century, after developing what obviously is becoming a connection, BECOMES Laris in the future. She (Laris) always portrayed an attraction and protection vibe ever since Season 1.
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Colin Lindsly
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 4:33pm (UTC -5)
In my early comment, I mentioned the manned space flight display not mentioning the contributions of countries other than America to space exploration. I was mistaken. It does mention the first manned space flight by Yuri Gagarin. And that's it. Just terrible.
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Keiren
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 5:04pm (UTC -5)
Random question I'd like to get off my chest... is there two Qs in this show? Like a good one and an alternate evil one or something?
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RedD
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 6:25pm (UTC -5)
No offense but I don't know how anyone is enjoying this series. It's an absolute mess. Good first episode, decent second but then it's gone drastically downhill. I always knew it would the longer they stayed in "our" time. Just a few more episodes to go and we STILL are going to be stuck in this crappy era. And I'm really tried of the contemporary issues they keep highlighting. Immigration, wealth inequality, climate change and recently, supposedly mental health woes. It's so in your face, no subtlety to their preaching. I thought the first season was poor but this is even wide worse. Discovery-level bad. What a great opportunity the writers had, all gone to waste.
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Colin Lindsly
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 7:06pm (UTC -5)
RedD,

I have heard your sentiments before, in an Angry Joe review of Star Trek: Picard Season 2. (The review is current up to episode 5.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v6atKSkobs
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Nick
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 7:12pm (UTC -5)
@RedD I couldn't agree more. I also liked the first two episodes but everything after has been garbage. Worse than Discovery. The only highlight has been the Borg Queen / Jurati sub plot, which is good mainly due to Annie Wersching's performance. As far as everything else, it's mystery box story telling taken to the next level, and by that I mean most of the time I have no idea what the hell is going on.

I'm totally fine with Trek exploring current political issues in a thoughtful way, but there's nothing thought provoking about this. The writers just had this checklist of topics they sprinkled throughout the series. Guinan's black, so let's make sure we insert one sentence about racism. Let's make sure we have one scene of pollution in the sky so we can talk about climate change. Let's have Rios get arrested by ICE so the characters can talk about immigration policy. There's no analysis of any of these issues, just a sentence or two stating that they exist as issues.

I think these writers are just bad, really bad. Jammer made some good points about the cheap "tricks" they do to try and keep our interest. Fake cliffhangers at the end of every episode, showing a clip of what's going to happen at the beginning of the episode. It's like the writers know their plot is weak and feel they need to do these things to keep our interest.
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SC
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 7:29pm (UTC -5)
Hate the modern way of showing you what's about to happen, before it happens. ffs, can't you trust us to sick around? Where have all the linear tales gone?

As for Picard, sigh, the show is watchable but it should have been so much more. It's only watchable once, mind. Once is enough.
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Colin Lindsly
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 8:43pm (UTC -5)
In the Angry Joe review, of which I am in agreement with him, they discussed how the issues were handled. In older Trek, there was an attempt to show both sides. In the end of an episode, the issue was tackled, usually to the Federation's side of the issue. In the better episodes, a viewer could find an escape in the story while also being educated or having their eyes opened to an issue. In newer Trek, we are told only one side. Every issue we have seen so far has been described as bad. There is no effort to make the show escapist entertainment. Members of the audience whose political views are in alignment with the franchise's views will agree that, yes, these things are bad.

And, quoting Robert Meyer Burnett, the older Trek characters were written as adults. There is a scene from Next Generation where Data addresses the disrespect that Worf has shown to him. It's beautifully written and acted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdiQhMPt1Zo&t=158s

There is one scene I see being mentioned often as the best thing of this mess of an episode. That is the conversation between the two Picards. It had, for me, the feeling and tone of older Trek. It had the maturity, the wisdom, the openness to learn new things and expand upon what was already known. Picard was the Picard I knew from TNG and it was refreshing.
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Jonas
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 9:15pm (UTC -5)
Imagine being a complete unknow at a party, and when the lights go out you decide to put on a show, singing a song you can't possible know if the band can play. Now imagine a band who got surprised by a power outage, see a complete stranger singing and cue in the song with perfect timing, with no rehersal. Absolute genius writing!
This scene is a great exemple of how writers treat the whole show. Flashy, inplausible and just for "fun". New trek is a disapointment...
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Colin Lindsly
Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 10:46pm (UTC -5)
My first thought when I saw that was, is this a dream? It fits perfectly with a dream. Or maybe it is a nightmare and we are on one of the rings of Dante's Inferno.
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Frank A. Booze
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 1:15am (UTC -5)
So, part of the next episode is going to be inside of Picard’s mind? How exciting! Like how Bashir and O’Brien have a journey inside of Sloan’s mind in the DS9 classic episode “Extreme Measures”. Oh wait, that wasn’t a classic episode. In fact, that was a poor episode.
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Alienatbar
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 2:10am (UTC -5)
The Picard speech lost me due to the high school acting on display from the young actress. The transition from despair to some hopeful banter on engines was horrible. The character was downing quite a few shots. She holds her alcohol well as I’m surprised she wasn’t slurring a bit more.
And then she goes for the speech. And then the speech maker gets struck by a car. Relapse coming??

The song was just wrong. Whether the queen was playing it playful due to being in Juratis mind I don’t know but again it made her lose all menace.

How are these writers employed? It may be difficult to write an episode or two in a season long arc but did they not see the rest of the episodes before production started. Most episodes are from different writers. Old Trek did this but it sat in with episodic tv. Can’t two or three writers do the whole thing then we might see some coherence. Writers out there, educate me.

As for Picard. The paddles aren’t going to work at this stage. You could go in and see what the issue is buuut I’m with Raffi, just leave him/it alone… leave it alone… beeeeeeeeeep

Raised by Wolves is pretty good.
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Colin Lindsly
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 3:30am (UTC -5)
Yeah, Raised by Wolves is brilliant. I was amazed at where they went in the last episode of season 2.
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Alienatbar
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 5:10am (UTC -5)
I’m completing S1 so happy if the themes continue. Trek is different sci fi but, good sci fi is good sci fi. A lot of people have noted the tired nature of time travel. We need to be prepared to accept consequence.
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Alienatbar
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 5:22am (UTC -5)
Just on the Picard speech. If the acting was reciprocated, in my opinion it wasn’t, then perhaps we would of had a good moment. Stewart and MacDowell in Generations discussing (bugger) time, was to me, great acting. The only thing that has come close this season has been the ep1 Picard/Laris almost kiss conversation. Perhaps why I had hope for a good season only to have it whisked away, on a bus bound for Mexico.
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Artymiss
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 5:45am (UTC -5)
So people still listen to Pat Benatar in the 24th century?! Or is this the Borg Queen using Jurati's body to sing? The Borg listen to Pat Benatar?!!

This episode gets worse the more I think about it. Clearly I need.to.stop.THINKING!!!
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Alienatbar
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 5:53am (UTC -5)
Maybe the BQ picked it up on AM radio? Best not to think about it Artymiss, you’ll get all fired up.
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Dreubarik
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 7:07am (UTC -5)
It is pretty telling that the only enjoyable things about this show are utterly absurd and break the suspension of disbelief (a Borg Queen obsessed with a human's sex life, a musical number in the middle of an episode) and the rest are boring garbage. In my opinion Picard is the worst show on television and Season 2 is reaffirming me in this belief.

I can't for the life of me understand why so many of you seem to like it or to rate it better than Discovery (a show I don't really like but that I see as a hundred times better than this). I mean it in an honest way: A big reason I enjoy this forum is because I'm trying to understand why, so thanks for trying to explain it. So far I still don't get it, but I'm still trying.
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KiminAsia
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 7:24am (UTC -5)
I have to agree with Jammer. This was a hot mess. Renee would have been washed out long ago, and the crew certainly would not have been downing shots a few days before launch. More Soong theatrics. Blah. And, respectfully,the Picard buck up speech to Renee was surprisingly turgid.
Thanks for the BSG nod on the hot red dress but where is this all going?
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Ron Burgundy
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 8:40am (UTC -5)
"So you think only pretty people like sex? Huh. Are you pretty." -- The Queen

I'm a mountain of delicious. I am the antidote to bald, graying, submissive man-drones. Furry, zesty, just the thing a Borg Queen needs. I'm all about assimilation, honey.
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Rahul
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 8:44am (UTC -5)
@Dreubarik

I don't know if "so many" people rate PIC higher than DSC. Both series aren't very good. For sure PIC's S2 so far has been awful and is on pace to be one of the worst seasons Trek has ever produced. DSC with all its flaws actually came up with its best season in S4 as far as I'm concerned. But I don't know if a fair comparison can be made of the 2 series until they're both done.

I think the difference between the 2 series is that PIC basically relies on having familiar and loved characters portraying familiar and loved characters, story, writing be damned. DSC doesn't have those familiar characters (and the ones they've come up with aren't widely loved IMHO) so the series has to rely on a good story first and fundamentally, which is how it should be. Now, I'm not saying DSC always has good stories but at least it is trying.

So as things are trending, I'd say when all's said and done, DSC would be the better series even with all its flaws. But neither of them would be good TV for me.
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Armus
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 8:51am (UTC -5)
It's hard not to roll my eyes at this show. This season had a good and strong start but I feel that nothing has happened in the last two episodes and this episode was less than 38 min. I started watching the episode already on guard because I knew it was a short one and I had a feeling that the plot development was going to be slow or non-existent. The last two episodes could have been combined into one episode. Are the writters of this show the same as the writters of Discovery? The season is almost over so how are they going to wrap up this whole season when they can't even wrap up a single plot point in one episode? Are they just going to dump everything at the end and call it good? Probably.
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Mal
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 9:09am (UTC -5)
@Colin Lindsly, thanks for the AngryJoe link.

AngryJoe makes a good point in his review - how can you have all this Picard/Laris shipping, without ever mentioning Beverly Crusher?

This is especially crazy since they brought Beverly back for the excellent Prodigy episode "Kobayashi"

https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-prodigy/s1/kobayashi.php

(3 1/2 stars from @Jammer! Check it out!)

The only way any of this makes any sense is if they somehow link Prodigy and Picard for season 3.

They could start season 3 of Picard where season 2 started - just before the explosion where the borg queen is taking over the Star Gazer.

At the end of season 1.0 of Prodigy, the crew are heading towards Federation space, while Vice-Admiral Janeway is heading out to meet them (she doesn't know it is them).

Here's the thing: the crew of the Prodigy have a super computer virus on their ship. Sounds like just the thing to kill off the borg who are taking over the Star Gazer.

Once events at the start of Season 3 of Picard are resolved, the crew of Picard (and the crew of Prodigy) can get back to doing normal Star Fleet things appropriate for the 25th century. Which is what AngryJoe seems to think season 3 will be about, normal Star Fleet.

I for one am looking forward to the Beverly/Laris interactions in season 3.

If Q can whip up all of Sherwood forest just to make Picard understand his feelings for Vash, then season 2 might be exactly the penance he needs to understand Romulan love songs.

No one thinks Sherwood forest in Q's recreation was anything like merry old England. Any more than 2024 in season 2 of Picard looks anything like our world today, or even DS9's "Past Tense."

Jolan Tru, my friends. Jolan Tru.
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TheRealTrent
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 11:34am (UTC -5)
Jammer said: "(Incidentally, the first time I remember this being done really well was in Clear and Present Danger (1994)s"

I've always thought those early Tom Clancy movies were the perfect template for what a modern "Picard" should be. Just replace Clancy's jingoism with some kind of Federation jingoism, and you've got a kind of low-key, thinking man's thriller, with guys well trained in politics, military tactics, philosophy and ethics trying to keep the peace. DS9 had a lot of little mini-arcs which did this extremely well.

You might say nu-Trek is to old-Trek what the new Tom Clancy movies/shows are to the old ones. There's a classiness and intellectual kick to "Hunt for Red October" and "Clear and Present Danger" that are similar to "Wrath of Khan" and "TNG", but that seem to now be out of fashion.

I thought Chabon's early ideas for "Picard" were another good direction for a potential show. He wanted a low key drama, set on earth. His Sherlock Holmes novella - The Final Solution - about an aging Holmes tending to his simple home, garden, and a rather mundane final case, while wrestling with his aging body, struck me as a good insight into what his vision of Picard would have been, freed from the shackles of Kurtzman. Whenever I've liked a chunk of "Picard" - be it season 1 or 2 - I've always noticed that when I check the credits, it's a script worked on by Chabon.
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Maq
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 1:54pm (UTC -5)
Let's wait and see if it gets any clearer next episode.
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Nick
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 2:41pm (UTC -5)
I'm surprised at how little has been accomplished since travelling to our time. They have basically done this:

1. Found the watcher
2. Determined the watcher was watching Renee Picard
3. Jean Luc had a 5 minute conversation with Renee (despite Data's attempt to foil him) which made Renee feel better and now she is (apparently) ready to do the Europa mission.

Those are the only 3 things of consequence that have happened in FOUR EPISODES. Does anyone else think this could have been compressed to a half an episode or less?
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Jaxon
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 2:58pm (UTC -5)
This whole season could have been a single two or three parter.

Voyager's Year Of Hell was originally supposed to be a season long arc.

In hindsight, whoever kiboshed that idea deserves an Emmy.
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Booming
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 3:03pm (UTC -5)
They also stopped the ice bus and released the Borg Queen on 2024. Wouldn't it be great if letting the immigrants run away was what caused change in the timeline. People would go cross-eyed. :D

Oh and let's not forget Raffi stealing a police car and then being beamed out in front of half a dozen cops. Don't these cop cars have cameras? They have the beaming out on two cop car cameras.

In the end they will have to go back in time to stop themselves from going back in time because of all the pointless changes in the timeline.

Now that I watch this more as amusing trash it is so much more fun. I always imagine that Brent Spiner had the scene were he ran over Patrick Stewart written into his contract. :)
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Jaxon
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 4:18pm (UTC -5)
"Amusing trash" is apt for this.

It's like Lost In Space (the 1960s one, not the vastly superior recent reimagining), but with some of the camp traded for cynicism.
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Ron Burgundy
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 4:43pm (UTC -5)
Picard is one-night stand material. Feed her a few drinks, ply her for favors, marvel at her cosmetic yum, and finish up quickly. And don't ever repeat her name.
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Shannon
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 4:50pm (UTC -5)
Wow, even shorter than last week. Once again the showrunners fail to take advantage of the streaming format to go into more depth with some of these characters and advance the plotlines further. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm over Raffi, both the character and bad actor who portrays her. As for Brent Spiner playing yet another "road to hell is paved with good intentions" Soong character feels old and dated... I'll keep watching but it's getting harder to stay engaged. Totally agree with Jammer's take on this one. 2 stars seems right.
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Chris Lopes
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 7:08pm (UTC -5)
"Maybe the BQ picked it up on AM radio?"

Thank the Maker she didn't tune into a 70's disco station.
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Lawn_Dart
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 7:18pm (UTC -5)
At what age did any of YOU first google your parents names, and how often do you keep doing it, just in case they've always seemed fine at home but you were worried that their years of protection and care might have been a disguise for the fact they might not be all there

Start at five years old, and then repeat every five years?

For fucks sake.
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grey cat
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 7:33pm (UTC -5)
Decent enough - 38 minutes is too short though.

I too felt 7 was a little wasted. I found myself saying to my partner that while I greatly respect Stewart as an actor and he seems fairly fit for an 80 year old - why couldn't they share the burden of carrying the show a little. Ok I realise it's actually called ST:Picard but why have a fine actress like Ryan standing around looking nice. What a waste? She could just as easily have been the one talking to Renee and getting hit by a car or whatever.

I'm not overly interested in what's going on in Picard's mine about his troubled childhood. That feels a bit superfluous with the larger stakes but I guess it may fit into the larger story later on I suppose.

I'm kind of tired of 2024 now too. I really would rather have seen more of the crew on the star gazer then go back to 2024 for an episode or two then back to whatever year it's meant to be in. I like my sci-fi to remain in the future or at least it's own present mostly (unless it's Quantum Leap etc obviously).

Minor ST in general rant though.. can we please stop with the prequels and going back in time (or forward to 3500 if you're gonna lack any imagination at all to do anything with it).

What is so wrong with setting a Star Trek series in the present. And I mean a long running one, not Picard which was obviously always meant to be a short run.

While i'm looking forward (a little nervously) to SNW I'm also kinda "meh" about yet another prequel. It gives them so little room to breathe because of canon and future events etc etc.

Anyway this was a fun and a diverting enough 38 minutes though. 2.5 stars from me. 2 stars makes it as bad as DSCs worst episodes which is clearly ridiculous.
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Graffin
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 8:03pm (UTC -5)
Why do so many of you seem to need YouTubers to tell you how to think?

Do you not realise that the only reason they are so harsh in their "reviews" of shows is because they know full well that if they were only ever positive about things, that would be far too boring to watch, and thus wouldn't get them the clicks they need for the ad revenue they want?

The negativity they put out is an entirely deliberate move, a package of pre-decided opinions then tailored to fit the content per-episode and spewed out into the echo-chamber of the same pre-decided opinions, designed to appeal to those unable to distinguish monetised propaganda from objective thought.

Their rhetoric is probably not even believed by half of them, but they are prepared to cynically exploit it by appealing to the lowest common denominator. They found a way to make money off of behaving like spoiled, ungrateful brats who'd rather spend half an hour a week putting needless toxicity out into the world and watching the money roll in than in getting off their asses and getting a real job, and you people clap for their clickbait like seals at feeding time.

How about you start watching shows by yourself instead of letting some ad-hungry neckbeard decide your opinion for you every week? Maybe then this comment section wouldn't be filled up with two thousand word dissertations every week that basically amount to nothing more than "Wah, Kurtzman..."

It's the very definition of Nudge Theory, used for unseemly purposes. One person starts doing it, another gets half-convinced by it and starts to do the same thing, and so another channel pops up, which reaches more people, who then set up their channels, and so on ad nauseum. Memetic transmission, in a way that reminds me of that quote from Rust Cohle in True Detective:

"Certain linguistic anthropologists think that religion is a language virus that rewrites the pathways in the brain, dulls critical thinking."

Replace "religion" in that quote with "tHIs eperS0d3 wuz [email protected] aNd NOT STAR tRek @ ALL" and it comes as no surprise to see the same people saying the same things every week, all of which end up somehow saying nothing at all, and yet somehow also invariably managing to convey the sentiment that it would have been FAR better if THEIR fan fiction had gotten filmed.
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Ovadus
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 8:31pm (UTC -5)
@Graffin
Bravo, thank you, it is so refreshing to hear a thoughtful, articulate voice that counters the bigmouths who have infested this blog with the same gasbaggy perorations week after week!

Your comments are brilliant and hilarious. People here are complaining about what they call mind rot by hollowing their own minds out
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Ron Burgundy
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 9:23pm (UTC -5)
Graffin, I am immune to YouTube's salacious harms. I am a rock, erected to the Old Gods. Before the mischief of men. And I know, without a glimmer of doubt, that Picard is a turd stained with the noxious charms of indecent, lesser souls. I find my wrath toward Picard both succulent and intimidating.
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Alienatbar
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 9:55pm (UTC -5)
If you want to hear more from Graffin just hit the subscribe button on the bottom of the screen. Brought to you by Cheesy Poofs. Who loves Cheesy Poofs. I love Cheesy Poofs.
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Nick
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 10:06pm (UTC -5)
Graffin, do you think these last couple of episodes have been good? I wouldn't consider myself a hater, I thought S1 of Picard was pretty decent overall and I really liked the first two episodes of this season (I'd rate both of them 4 stars).

But these last 4 episodes have been bad. There's just no way around it. The youtube reviews might go over the top trying to rake in views but it doesn't mean these episodes are good or that people are being unfair.
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Bryan
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 10:08pm (UTC -5)
"Now that I watch this more as amusing trash it is so much more fun."

Yeah, that's the spirit!
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Bryan
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 10:17pm (UTC -5)
"How about you start watching shows by yourself instead of letting some ad-hungry neckbeard decide your opinion for you every week?"

Well, no, because usually it takes them a while to collect their thoughts and put out the video. In the meanwhile, most of us here have already assessed the episodes within 24-48 hours without necessarily having to kowtow to outside opinion, often before that is even possible.
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Jonas
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 10:26pm (UTC -5)
@Graffim
I have seen a lot of "youtube critics" who praise other content as well... sh*ting on a show that i
s terrible is just common sense. If you don't like it and have a medium, be vocal about it. If you like it, same. Hence this comment session. I have read a lot of praise here before seeing episodes of Picard and that didn't change my mind. I still find this show stupid and badly written, no matter how many people here seem to like it. I have a lot of fond memories of TNG and hate to have them being soiled by people who couldn't write a mediocre episode of Greys Anatomy. That's all...
We have a lot of bad shows on TV. Picard just happened to be one of them.
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Curb
Sat, Apr 9, 2022, 11:00pm (UTC -5)
This site ceased to be anything but NECKBEARDS-R-US a long time ago.
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PM
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 12:44am (UTC -5)
@Curb, totally agree.

Here's what the "outside world" thinks of an episode like this (which i also agree with)

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-picard-review-season-2-episode-6-two-for-one/
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Bryan
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 12:53am (UTC -5)
Den of Geek is the outside world now..? I love how they're constantly biting their tongue, as if they're being paid not to say anything too negative even though they so want to: "The episode’s framing device of a countdown to the moment Picard is hit by a car is…a choice."
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Booming
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:12am (UTC -5)
This show must have fans and these people now get a little defensive. It is telling that they don't write long texts in which they explain the actual brilliance of the show, instead they attack the people who don't like it.

The best and probably most famous mystery box show was Lost and I watched it until the middle of season 3 because I noticed that there were just setups while being on a road to nowhere. I gave the the mystery approach another chance by watching the leftovers and had to force myself to watch it to the end because I felt fairly early on that this too would have no real conclusion. The conclusion was then so insulting that I soured on the concept forever. The lead actor was giving a speech at the end essentially breaking the forth wall by declaring that the central mysteries were dumb.

Why do people like this show. Maybe they do like the mystery box approach. Constantly guessing without wanting satisfying conclusions. Maybe some of the themes grabbed them emotionally. Maybe some get the feeling that saying climate change bad is so important.

And to add one thing to what somebody else wrote. Yes, in quite a few ways things did get better over the last few decades but what the show or the gated community writers sense is that there is something fundamentally wrong. Carbon emissions actually still go up every year (not counting the first corona year); every Human being has now microplastics in their bodies; Extinction of species through habitat degradation and climate change; many more equally depressing things which you and me can not really do anything about.

To me it seems that the writers try to catch a feeling that is connected to what political scientists call democratic backsliding. Meaning that after the third wave of democratization we now see the autocratic counterwave and it seems this one will hit a few of the older democracies like the USA and maybe today France where a right wing radical has a good chance of winning. Let's face it, the only real threat to these rich people living in their nice houses is a democratic implosion and global risks that even rich people cannot escape. But because these people are part of the system that created all these problems they have no solutions, cannot even provide a smart analysis. That's why they have people like Seven say maybe the most idiotic critique of climate change (These are her actual words):
- Fire poisons the sky
- Trees gone
- Water dry
- Soon no food
- No breathable air

I mean you have a huge franchise at your disposal to spread the word and this is your take on climate change? "fire poisons the sky". That's not what is causing climate change. So yeah, these elitist writers see these obvious problems (maybe google global risk society) but are incapable of understanding them because understanding it would question their entire existence. They constantly fly around in airplanes, they drive big cars, they work for a gigantic media conglomerate that finances itself by spreading corporate propaganda, fairly often of companies that cause climate change, they probably pay financial advisers to maximize their profits. They are part of the problem.
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StarMan
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 3:37am (UTC -5)
Wasn't this meant to be a follow up to All Good Things? "What did I say to you when last we parted ways? The trial never ends."

Yeah okay - thanks John. So ... umm, where the hell is it? There's 4 episodes left and all they've done is throw various turds at the wall; the only piece that's partially stuck is Mad Jurati and Saucy Queen.

If we think back to the beginning, Q saved Picard and co in the 'splosion and set a series of events in motion that resulted in him ... losing his powers unexpectedly, with him now plotting and scheming in the shadows like any ol' generic antagonist. What's going on? Surely something on a much larger scale is in play for Q to be neutered. Is it something to do with him not being well (???). I'm sick of most of my NuTrek conversations ending in a ?. Pull some of this shlock together already.

I think this serialized twaddle works if you enjoy the mystery box journey but are none too fussed about a decent / coherent resolution. Honestly, I'm going to be blown away if they remember to tie every thread up satisfactorily by episode 10.

I think it was a pity they got off to such a strong start; Matalas's contributions at the outset of the season were the highpoint. Hand over to Akiva Goldsman - a man of such talent that The Golden Raspberries go to Yellow Alert when he goes near a word processor.
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Dreubarik
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 4:52am (UTC -5)
@Booming Fully agree with all your points. Going into this season, though, I already assumed Picard would be dumb plot-driven nonsense. But the first episode suggested that it could at least be competent, dumb plot-driven nonsense. To compare it to something else, Stargate SG-1 is essentially dumb plot-driven nonsense (sure, there is SOME theme-driven episodes and interetsing character moments, but most of the time it is essentially plot and little else) and it is still very entertaining and well crafted. Yet what we have gotten here is just bafflingly disjointed, incoherent and boring.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of all the glaring plot holes I have counted so far. And mind you, these are NOT NITPICKS (I'm sure you can find a lot of those per episode, but you can nitpick any show) but fundamental incoherences at the core of the story:

- Why would the Borg Queen take the crew back to their desired point in time, rather an a period where she could easily assimilate life on Earth? If the Borg Queen can indeed see different timelines, she knows that the prime Federation timeline isn't exactly one she would desire to restore. Even more importantly: Why would the crew trust that she would take them to the desired point in time?

- Far worse than this: Once in 2024, how can Picard justify keeping the Borg Queen alive just so they could go back home? The enormity of the risk for the human race of having the Borg Queen alive in 2024 is incomparable to his desire to get back to his own time. It is deeply unprofessional and wrong for him to prioritize that over the human race. And then they proceed to leave the Borg Queen unguarded for most of the show. It is just impossible to believe these officers would act this way.

- The show informs us that changing the timeline is extremely risky. The crew then goes to actively change the timeline in a multiplicity of ways without the plot ever even bringing it up. A bus full of deported people is stopped on its tracks and its occupants are allowed to remain in the U.S., inevitably causing a major timeline-shifting event. 25th century technology is left lying around with no second thought.

- Q somehow needs to come up with an elaborate scheme to convince Renee Picard not to go on a space mission, but we have seen him using his powers before, after the story was already set in motion! Why wouldn't he have made it all happen simultaneously when he initially snapped his fingers? And if he indeed can't: How did he insert himself as a NASA psychologist or indeed anywhere? Without his powers, he's just a useless regular guy with no resources. And admitting he is a NASA psychologist: Why does he need Renee to pull out from the mission? He can just write a negative psych evaluation himself! Or why not kill her? It's just absurd.

- Why would Tallinn be watching one single person? As I remember it, Gary Seven didn't know the future, he was there to prevent big macro events that everybody knew, he didn't have the ability to predict a single individual who isn't in a leadership position would change the course of the human race with a fortuitous discovery. But admitting the premise: Why would she need anyone's help fulfilling her mission? Remember how when she was introduced she could mind-control everybody? Why not use THAT power?

This show just feels like the writers never once checked their own scripts for coherence, nor bothered to read the previous episodes. It's as if they forget about everything the story has previously set up. Even in its own terms as a dumb advanture show, it is just so deeply incoherent that it becomes impossible to enjoy it. If nothing matters, there can be no satisfying payoffs because nothing matters.
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Artymiss
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:04am (UTC -5)
What the bloody hell is a "neckbeard"?!
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Booming
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:20am (UTC -5)
@Artymiss
That is a derogatory term for men who don't take care of how they look, indicated by them not shaving their neck region. Kind of like base dweller. It essentially means loser.
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Colin Lindsly
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:41am (UTC -5)
For myself, I included the Angry Joe video for I believe that he articulates my feelings better than I can at times. I have a mental disability - autism - and it is hard at times for me to be articulate. Articulation is not only knowing what words to say; it, also, includes the ability to draw on the experiences of interacting with other people and learning how to respond and react in a way that is understandable to a sizable number of people. My experiences are quite limited, which means that I struggle with the communication.

By most definitions of what society considers a successful person, I am a loser. It is not a title I wear proudly; I accept it with resignation. So, for me, Angry Joe is not a loser. He is far more successful at life than I am. He has a job, a girlfriend, other friends, independence, and a purpose in life. I have none of these things.
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Booming
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:38am (UTC -5)
@Colin
"By most definitions of what society considers a successful person, I am a loser."
The value judgement of an immoral system is irrelevant. That may not mean much to you but it is true. Hopefully you will find a positive purpose even in this world. :)

I don't know you so I can only give the most generic, one might say NuTrekkian advice. Here it is. You have strength, concentrate on those and apart from that don't just act nice but "become nice". That is a difference quite a few men fail to grasp. It will take time, though. That will probably not bring you money but it could bring you happiness. (Sorry if that sounds completely nonsensical to you; I'm really good at giving people a more positive outlook but this forum is a very limited environment.)

Good luck!
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Jason R.
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 7:35am (UTC -5)
I think it is more than just a generic term for a basement dwelling loser. The archetype is the comic book guy from the Simpsons - a cynical, jaded, arrogant basement dwelling loser, particularly one who obsesses over scifi, comics and other geeky pursuits.
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Ron Burgundy
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 8:52am (UTC -5)
Colin Lindsly -- don't fret my friend. Yours is a unique soul with a unique and poignant perspective on things. Don't stain your life with worries about what anyone else might think. Enjoy it, every single day. Especially the little things (that are anything but).

And if anyone has a problem with that, you just tell them that 'ole Ron Burgundy has your back. I have so many disorders and manic issues I've lost count. But, through sheer will, I've constructed a beautiful, intoxicating personality with an epicenter that is the sexual equivalent of Mt. Vesuvius.

Strive like ole' Ron did. And grow a mustache if you can. It really does help.
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Henson
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 9:55am (UTC -5)
@Ron Burgundy

Wait, I'm having trouble piecing this lore together. So, you're a manic, disorderly rock erected by the Old Gods who broke free of its geological confines by will alone, creating a personality for yourself modeled after an historic volcano (the perfect role model for a rock, I suppose), found a way to grow facial hair, not to mention a face to put it on, and now you spend your days writing comments on a Star Trek blog?
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 10:36am (UTC -5)
@Colin Lindsly
"By most definitions of what society considers a successful person, I am a loser."

Screw society. Who cares what they think, anyway?

I've been reading your comments here, and you've made a great impression so far. You sound like a nice, thoughtful person to me. And if society at large can't see that, then this is their problem rather than yours.
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Booming
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 11:04am (UTC -5)
@Henson
Add to that that the Vesuvius only erupted once in the last 100 years...
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Alienatbar
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 11:06am (UTC -5)
Yup, nothing wrong with your articulation Col. Doing a fine job mate.
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Dan
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 11:08am (UTC -5)
Just want to say that shot when queen Agnes walked away in the end was magnificent 😍
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Alienatbar
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 11:14am (UTC -5)
By the way Col. The season 1 ending to Raised by Wolves was pretty cool so getting in to S2 now. Mr Ridley Scott knows how to do sci fi.
Didn’t Vesuvius manage to fuck well over 3000 people at once? You stay classy Napoli.
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Ron Burgundy
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 11:16am (UTC -5)
Henson, I met L. Ron Hubbard long ago. He was a fool. He too saw the Old Gods. But he rejected them. His volcano was dianetic. Mine is active and fulsome.

This Jammer scribe is but a similicrum of the Ron that exists elsewhere, elusively. I erupt when I must, when Kurtzman and his thetans deserve my wrath. But, I find great comfort in soothing the souls of this misguided site. Grow a mustache and find your path.
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Jaxon
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 12:36pm (UTC -5)
Dreubarik said:

"To compare it to something else, Stargate SG-1 is essentially dumb plot-driven nonsense (sure, there is SOME theme-driven episodes"

It took only five episodes before SG-1 resorted to what Jammer calls "fun with DNA" episodes, when they basically did TNG's Genesis, but with everyone becoming what Riker did. SG-1's very first post-pilot episode was a rehash of TNG's Code Of Honor, and was actually written by the same person.

But SG-1 was still much better than nuTrek.
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Dreubarik
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 4:14pm (UTC -5)
@Jaxon Yes, exactly. Stargate SG-1 marks the ceiling of what I believe NuTrek could realistically achieve. So far it isn't even coming close to its worst episodes.
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Ovadus
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:03pm (UTC -5)
@Graffin’s comments have hit a nerve. In no way did he or she state that Picard was great. He or she barely said anything about the show. Graffin’s point, or one of them (please correct me, Graffin, if I am off-base) is that in the clickbait industry, it pays to be negative for the sake of it. As Graffin already addressed, opinions are pre-decided. Beats having to go out into the real world and get a job that requires learning how to embrace critical thinking, where your “I am always right” attitude is called into question.

But sure, mock the messenger and the term
“Neckbeard.” Heaven forbid there be a dissenting opinion from the YouTube/Comic Book Guy chorus
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Ovadus
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:06pm (UTC -5)
And just because a non-neckbeard has a opinion that differs from yours, it doesn’t make you right or the neckbeard wrong or vice versa. I don’t call the people who criticize the show, stupid. Yet the people on this site who hate the show criticize dissenters all the time, then claim they are being by persecuted, when all they are being is rude
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Ron Burgundy
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:11pm (UTC -5)
Ovadus, the show is dogshit, is it not?
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Jason R.
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:23pm (UTC -5)
"Yet the people on this site who hate the show criticize dissenters all the time, then claim they are being by persecuted, when all they are being is rude"

Not saying it never happens but I can't recall too many personal attacks of that nature. What exactly are you referring to?
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Jaxon
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:47pm (UTC -5)
Yeah I really don't care who loves this show.

I find the attempted psychoanalysis of those of us that don't entertaining.
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Jonas
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:16pm (UTC -5)
I just found out they're bringing back the whole TNG crew for Picard season 3... If that doesn't reek of total desperation, i don't know what else does. Paramount execs must finally realised the dumpster fire this show is and now are trying the most obvious, most pathetic and most tired out trope to try boost interest in this show.
Great. Now they soil the legacy of all thise characters, not just Picard.
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Chris Lopes
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:49pm (UTC -5)
"I just found out they're bringing back the whole TNG crew for Picard season 3... "

Even Will Wheaton? Or is he still going to be the cheesey shill for the show on those "Ready Room" segments?
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Bryan
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 7:05pm (UTC -5)
They'll probably invite Wil Wheaton back. They'll shoot a few scenes with him which will ultimately get cut from the show to the utter dismay of nobody except Wil Wheaton. Then he'll just back to go back to being the cucked spokesman for Nu-Trek and hating himself for all eternity.
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grey cat
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 7:48pm (UTC -5)
I've been rewatching a bit of Stargate sg1 (later seasons) and Atlantis of late and the writing is vastly superior to PIC or DSC. Obviously all of the acting is superior to DSC and some of it even beats the fine actors in PIC.

It's so refreshingly entertaining and well.. sci-fi. They do even have policitical or philoscophical points to make in many episodes but they don't feel the need to berate you or preach either.

Personally I enjoyed s1 of pic and am enjoying s2 well enough. A lot more than jammer apprently anyway.

But thats the point isn't it? I share the site owners love of ds9 but can see what he finds so great about DSC. If i just wanted to read my own views on an episode i wouldn't be here.

Jammersreviews isn't like say YouTube's Critical Drinker where he has to amusingly rip things apart for clicks and subs. Jammer didn't even have the coffee thing until recently.

I think there's a fairly healthy debate of opinions on here. I mean theres the odd resident troll as always but everyone isn't immediately belittling anyone who enjoys an episode more than them.
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Entendu
Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 11:37pm (UTC -5)
I’m deeply saddened by what PIC has turned out to be. It was so exciting seeing Jean Luc coming back to the small screen, and this writing crew has taken a golden opportunity and dunked it in the odiferous diarrhea of incompetence.

I can’t offer any analysis that hasn’t already been covered at length above; just wallowing here with all of you. :(
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Sven
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 1:25am (UTC -5)
Season 2 began rather well, but by now I have a feeling that it has come apart. There's some character development, sure, but not for the main characters who (apart from Jurati maybe) seem to be there for the sake of being there. We've seen them driving around LA for a few episodes doing essentially nothing but getting themselves in and out of trouble and since last episode they're attending a pre-launch party to vaguely convince someone to take a trip into space. I for one don't get a real sense of urgency. Too much going on probably and too little of it seems important.
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Booming
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 1:50am (UTC -5)
@Ovadus

"Yet the people on this site who hate the show criticize dissenters all the time, then claim they are being by persecuted, when all they are being is rude"
Was there any instance where a fan was attacked here? I don't think so. Graffin's opinion is just plain wrong. First of all, believing that reviews have to be bad to be successful flies in the face of many review sites, even this one or are you calling Jammer's reviews negative clickbait? It also betrays a very cynical view of humanity and the people here. But the main reason why Graffin's opinion is wrong was already pointed out. Most here write about the episode long before the review videos come out.

By the way, nobody here is or claimed to be persecuted. There are Russian mass graves a 1000km from where I'm sitting, if you need an example of actual persecution.

Hey, there is an idea, instead of attacking people, because that is all you have done so far, write something about the episode.
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Artymiss
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:33am (UTC -5)
@Ovadus

The rude person doing the attacking around here seems to be...you.

Instead of that why not do what @Booming suggests and tell us what you enjoy about this episode?
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Yanks
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 6:37am (UTC -5)
I watched this Thursday night.

More of the same. I'm hoping that the myriad of what appears to be loose ends will be tied up when we figure out what the hell Q is up to.

I guess I'll take what I can get out of this.

Why have Seven in this if they refuse to use her?

At least Picard sounded like Picard when he was speaking to Renee.

Was Allison Pill the one singing "Shadows of the Night"?

While that red dress is revealing, I don't think it really fits her that well.

So Soong is going to contribute significantly to the Eugenics Wars?

Lots of questions, but that's to be expected with the 10 episode 4 episode content season. Just like last year. I'll be so happy when SNW starts and we get out of the season long story arc crap.

So the Cerritos is going to be stolen? ... haha

2 stars I guess.
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grey cat
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 6:54am (UTC -5)
there are many shows that do 8-13 episode story arcs extremely well.

I think it appears beyond the writing team's ability to do them well though.. If they stuck to self-contained single stories per episode (perhaps with a bit of character development as a mini arc across the whole season) that would have been more within their grasp.

that said:

@Entendu "I can’t offer any analysis that hasn’t already been covered at length above; just wallowing here with all of you. :("

I'm still quite enjoying PIC despite it's flaws along with quite a few above. Let's not all talk like we have the same opinion please.
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Dreubarik
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:20am (UTC -5)
@Yanks Do you believe them when they say SNW will be episodic? I don't. It's the same as when they said Picard will be "an introspective character study": they will pretend to do it for a few episodes and then go back to the same thing they always do.
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Rahul
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:58am (UTC -5)
There's definitely some validity to what "Graffin" said but I think some/(most?) of what was said is getting lost given the colorful way in which it was expressed it in the original comment and now the ensuing back-and-forth.

What I'd focus on is that it definitely seems to me that given how many opinions are out there with the various forms of social media in existence, it's hard for any one individual to get noticed or garner attention. There are all sorts of these types in the social media sphere who crave attention (and I think the same could be said just within this forum) and clicks.

So how to garner attention (and clicks / views etc.)? It's more difficult to come up with thoughtful, insightful analysis than it is to be provocative, and maybe even offensive. I'm speaking in general and not about any particular Youtube review of this episode or whatever. I think some social media savvy folks have probably done well for themselves catering to the lowest common denominator and trying to out-outrageous everybody else.
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 11:39am (UTC -5)
I agree that youtube reviews tend towards extremes, because being provocative gets more attention. But it should be pointed out that also applies to positive reviews as well, and there's no shortage of channels that shower praise over anything that has a lot of fans. And there's youtube channels showering praise on Picard if you want to watch that.

Reviews can also be influencing, sure... but most of the time whether someone likes a show or not just comes down to their own tastes.
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grey cat
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 11:50am (UTC -5)
@Dreubarik I'm expecting it to be 10 episodes of Pike saving humanity/earth/the galaxy/the universe from some ridiculous threat but of course I am hoping for a more ToS/TNG style show anyway...

I could happen. Maybe.
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Booming
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 12:05pm (UTC -5)
Season 2 will probably end on a cliffhanger where the Borg take over and then Picard has to assemble the TNG retiree crew to stop them ONE LAST TIME.

Emotionally it will be somewhat like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygzc9wONU0M
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grey cat
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 12:18pm (UTC -5)
I'm really hoping this season manages to tie most of these threads together somehow in a coherent fashion but it's a lot to do in 4 episodes.

If they're not careful it could end up like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5uaRmYivY
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Tim M.
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 12:53pm (UTC -5)
I liked this episode. It had my wanting to tune in next week to see what happens, so that's a success for me. The gem of this episode was the scene between JL and Renee Picard. That definitely felt like vintage TNG Picard speech material, which was welcome. I also liked the reference to "Enterprise" with the ship model overhead ("Spike," as Renee called it), as we saw it in the opening credits of ENT.

I also enjoyed seeing Raffi be a bit more reasonable, both in declining to drink any alcohol and in her advice to a smitten Rios (Smrios? ;)). Perhaps Raffi's irrational behavior in the prior episodes really was her character's poor reaction to stress and loss, even if overplayed a bit by Michelle Hurd. I'm also wondering if Rios might contemplate staying in the 21st century, sort of a reverse of Gillian Taylor in Star Trek IV. I doubt it, though, as he's a main character.

I'm also really liking the current take on the Borg Queen. The seduction and the psychological manipulation feel on-target for the character. It also fits in with Picard's line in First Contact that she wanted him to "give himself freely" to her, presumably as a result of the psychological assimilation more than the physical one.

I am starting to miss the 25th century period, though, and I agree with Jammer if we spend the rest of the season in 2024. Hopefully we get to spend ~2 episodes back in 2500. I suspect next week will be mostly centered around Talinn's exploration of Picard's psyche. One of the flashbacks of the trauma regarding his mother showed what might have been a Romulan fighting with his mother. Did anyone freezeframe that to tell for sure? I also seem to remember seeing a Romulan interacting with a boy (young Picard?) in one of the trailers...so something interesting may be afoot there.
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Yanks
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 12:56pm (UTC -5)
@Dreubarik
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:20am (UTC -5)
"@Yanks Do you believe them when they say SNW will be episodic? I don't. It's the same as when they said Picard will be "an introspective character study": they will pretend to do it for a few episodes and then go back to the same thing they always do."

One can hope.... it's coming from the actors too so...
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C. Obv.
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 1:49pm (UTC -5)
As long as Trek fans keep paying to watch this stuff Paramount won't have any incentive to produce a better product.
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Cristóbal
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:56pm (UTC -5)
Laughed out loud at Picard's "Guys, I think I'm in trouble" line.

Though I don't think it was *meant* to be funny.
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TheRealTrent
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 5:42pm (UTC -5)
From https://deadline.com/2022/04/star-trek-picard-patrick-stewart-interview-contenders-tv-1234999334/:

"The veteran actor said that, after decades of resistance, he now accepts that 'Jean-Luc Picard is Patrick Stewart, and I am him. There is no separation anymore. I used my life continually when we were shooting Season Two and Three of Picard , and I’m no longer afraid of doing that, which at one time in my career I would have been. But not anymore. I feel I have something to say, and I can only say it through the performances that I give.'"

"In terms of his approach to his role, Stewart said the first seeds of possibility were planted when executive producer Alex Kurtzman, the guiding figure of the current Star Trek television franchise, first suggested that Picard’s evolution might mirror Stewart’s own. "
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Jason R.
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 5:49pm (UTC -5)
"The veteran actor said that, after decades of resistance, he now accepts that 'Jean-Luc Picard is Patrick Stewart, and I am him. There is no separation anymore. I used my life continually when we were shooting Season Two and Three of Picard , and I’m no longer afraid of doing that, which at one time in my career I would have been. But not anymore. I feel I have something to say, and I can only say it through the performances that I give.'"

"In terms of his approach to his role, Stewart said the first seeds of possibility were planted when executive producer Alex Kurtzman, the guiding figure of the current Star Trek television franchise, first suggested that Picard’s evolution might mirror Stewart’s own. "

Lol. Well that's about what I expected. I always thought Stewart either couldn't or wouldn't play Picard anymore. This quote explains a lot.
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Li'Griv
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 5:51pm (UTC -5)
C. Obv. -- no one here cares. They've all gone insane. They want to piss away their money for shit product. They want to complain because it is their last refuge from reality.
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Bryan
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:29pm (UTC -5)
"Jean-Luc Picard is Patrick Stewart, and I am him. There is no separation anymore."

Jesus Christ.
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Curb
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:30pm (UTC -5)
Neckbeards.
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Tim M.
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:58pm (UTC -5)
Without fail, by the time I watch the episode over the weekend and come to the comment thread to post my impressions, the dang thing's gone down the proverbial sonic toilet.
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grey cat
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:07pm (UTC -5)
The comment thread has gone down the toilet?
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:28pm (UTC -5)
Hey, I thought the thread was going great! Just a little bit got a bit crazed, is all. It's just because people love Star Trek!
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Jaxon
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:38pm (UTC -5)
Looks like Stewart's ego now exceeds Shatner's...no small feat.
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EmpressHoshiSato
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:46pm (UTC -5)
@Dreubarik - Exactly what I mentioned too. There is no way that Starfleet would want to risk having the Borg Queen alive in the 21 st century. She literally poses a huge risk to Earth. Let alone unguarded. Preserving humanity's future is more important than getting back there. The movie First Contact made that abundantly clear.

@Ron Burgundy - Yes. Maybe one night stand material. But how did Renee witnessing a hit and run not draw attention to the 24th century visitors. How was there such poor security outside the NASA venue?! The hot chica doctor is multiple night stand material. Hoshi Sato, wifey. I still don't get how Picard has seemingly forgotten Beverly given the entirety of TNG. Or the Baku lady.

This episode's highlight was Picard speaking to Picard. And maybe the hot chica Doctor.
But the last 3 episodes feel like they could have been done in 1.

What a waste of episodes and still the story feels so unclear. Likely will be anticlimactic like season 1. Watcher probably becomes Laris, but don't care frankly. Guinan would have been better and played by the original actor.

The deviation in the timeline is unclear. And the Europa mission itself negates the point of First Contact. Also a mission to Mars would make more sense than Io.

Soong's daughter should have been a different actress. But anyhow she had zero reason to ask him what happened when he came home. Unless him having his tie undone was just unheard of. And if he's been so villified by the media and censured for his work, is it likely that NASA would just accept him to the Board on short notice?!?

Just a mess and feels like if there's only 10 episodes, what a waste of at least 3. If not 4. Could have told SO MUCH in that run time. You can see how TNG, Voyager did it. Seven is wasted here. Rios is wasted and could be better used. He shouldn't be smoking at all. BSG also covered a lot of story in a 40 minute span.

Great if the TNG cast are returning IF it's based on a story. Search for Data? Enterprise E? No more swearing! Time travel wise, The Voyage Home and First Contact did it right.
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Sen-Sors
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 9:00pm (UTC -5)
"...Alex Kurtzman, the guiding figure of the current Star Trek television franchise, first suggested that Picard’s evolution might mirror Stewart’s own."

This fucking guy.
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Ovadus
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 9:22pm (UTC -5)
@Artymiss

I will remember your advice the next time @Booming bullies someone and you tacitly or explicitly encourage it.

With respect, this is not a court, you are not a prosecutor, and no one here is on trial. I did not claim this particular episode was great or very good. I claimed the right to have an opinion without being thought a moron on account of having that opinion. I thought the teleplay had shards of wit, and that Picard’s speech to Renee was effective on some emotional level. A middle-of-the-road affair. Sufficient detail?

I will note that the selective invocation of “talk about the episode!” is frequently used by as a way of name-calling, deflecting, or avoiding. The tactic is used, it would appear, as the occasion demands. Want to call someone stupid in general? Avoid plot specifics, they are unnecessary. Want to call someone stupid for having made a comment about a specific point of an episode, call the person stupid by “talking about the episode.”

Some people, and I do not have any one person in mind, will make ad-hominem attacks having little or nothing to do with episodic specifics , and will then demand someone else “talk about the episode” in a degree of detail one could not summon if one had to criticize Shakespeare’s Lost Folio.

The demanding of “talk about the episode” reminds me of The Catcher in the Rye’s Mr. Vinson. Digression!

The difference between some individuals here and some others is not necessarily rudeness (most comments, if sufficiently flyspecked, can be found to be rude), but in their drawing of conclusions based on limited or no evidence.

I can quote certain individuals’ outright, Ad-hominem calling other people who post here “stupid,” or similar dismissive sobriquets. Some people, in so doing, claim moral superiority over their fellow posters. If these people did not engage in either of these lines of commentary, the commentary left for them to offer, I fear, could be transcribed on the back of a matchbox. These are the same people who claim they have never engaged in personal attacks or ask others to admit something is dogshit or what have you. This site, as I assume people know, has a search function allowing for search of past posts. The moderator has removed some of those past posts. The people whose posts were removed are the ones saying I am engaging in a “personal attack.” Go figure.

No one should be called “stupid” for liking (or disliking) a show. The oft-true “We can agree to disagree” cliche seems to exist only in a different space-time continuum here sometimes. The reasons why people tune in (or do not tune in) to watch Star Trek, today as always, are multi-faceted, sometimes nuanced, and cannot necessarily be reduced to a few sentences of plot description. As someone said above, whether someone likes something and how or why they like or don’t like it comes down to individual taste.

Graffin observed that some YouTubers have a monetary interest in pushing and promoting negativity and negative reviews. We all know studios have an interest in pushing a positive point of view for the sake of money - what is inaccurate or shocking about what Graffin said?

I think some people do not like the fact that one person’s taste cannot be proven to be objectively superior to another’s.

Thanks as always for the soapbox, @Jammer
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 9:44pm (UTC -5)
@Ovadus Here's what's inaccurate about what Graffin said: it's not really "negativity" where the monetary interest comes from, it's just basically having strong opinions in general. It goes both ways, as some youtubers will join hate trains to preach to the "haters" and others will be sycophants to a show in order to get on the side of the fans.

But also, I just don't think it's really fair to assume that most people here are getting their opinions from youtube. Most people are posting their genuine reactions. And you shouldn't generalize... a few people here have insulted each other, but most have been polite. Include many critics of Picard.
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Nick
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 9:47pm (UTC -5)
As much as I didn’t like these last 4 episodes, I did really like Picard’s motivational speech to Renee. At the end of the day, that’s why I watch the show. One last chance to see Patrick Stewart play the Picard character and hear him say stuff like that.

Maybe in the next episode he can give another motivational speech to the child inside his mind or whatever.
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Andy in VA
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 9:50pm (UTC -5)
Having read through the many many comments here... the majority of which are highly critical of ST:Picard, I find myself wondering if there's a demographic schism here... that those who dislike the show intensely (though still loyal enough to watch it) are perhaps of a younger generation than those of us who like its pacing just fine (and yes there are a few of us here who do).

I've no idea how many of those who dislike Picard do like ST:Discovery.

I will say this as a long-time fan who started out watching TOS reruns in the mid-1970s that I find Picard to be thoughtful, nuanced, and tightly scripted with each episode leaving me wanting for more and looking forward to the next installment.

At the same time, I'll say I've watched every episode of Discovery and watched as it decayed from the chaotic but riveting first season to a set of season-long story arcs that never seem to pay off in the end. I say this most strongly about season 3 (The Burn) and season 4 (The DMA), both of which poof out to "it was all some big misunderstanding."

Meanwhile its characters endlessly break down sobbing, disregarding and disobeying orders and command structure as they please, with absolutely no consequence. We've come a long long way from Michael Burnham as "the mutineer." Now it's all OK because someone was upset. Bygones!

Picard's characters are different. They're all older, or at least more "seasoned" as Deanna Troi might say. They've been through some grown up sh*t, each and every one of them.

To me -- and perhaps others of my age and generation -- that makes them more real: be it Picard's agedness, Raffi's battle with substance abuse, Seven endlessly running away and Agnes' inner loneliness. Even Rios has had to reckon with his experience on the Ibn-Majid. They're all a little bit scarred, a bit worse for wear.

These are grown-up problems, faced bravely. This gives the characters depth, and gravitas.

No, they don't solve every problem in 43 minutes or less. But neither does Discovery's crew, and they waste gobs of time crying and hugging it out.

Everybody's entitled to their opinions, to their likes and dislikes, but from my perspective, Picard is far more enjoyable than Discovery.

We've all certainly seen far worse productions in the Star Trek universe.
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Alienatbar
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 9:52pm (UTC -5)
Ovadus, Graffin observed that yes, but began with the generalisation that so many of us need YouTubers to have an opinion. To generalise to that extent is a stretch. I personally have never had Facebook and only went on to check the YouTube reviews after it was mentioned here. My opinions are my own.
I don’t have any historical context to bullying on here, if that is your concern, but you’re right, that shouldn’t occur and hopefully it is dealt with.
I thought this thread was going fine but then there was a release of endorphins and neck minute we’re on the streets of LA seeking mischief.

In regards to Kore, interested to see if the mythological slant will be taken after it was noted in the thread. Jurati being tossed could be on the cards.
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 9:54pm (UTC -5)
@Andy in VA
Yeah, there probably is a demographic schism. I am a bit older, and among many things, it's the writing in both Picard and Discovery that I tend to find to be a turn-off. But most of my complaints would apply equally to Picard and Discovert. I really prefer the writing style, pacing, tone, music and presentation of the older shows. Generally it kind of seems to me that fans of the old shows *tend* to not like the new ones, but of course there would be a lot of variance.
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Frank A. Booze
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:05pm (UTC -5)
@Flipsider

I agree that fans of the old shows tend to not like the new ones. But this got me thinking, who actually likes the new shows? Older fans don’t, and I can’t imagine either show is appealing to general audiences. So are these new shows only being renewed for additional seasons based on the viewership from old fans, who ultimately despise both Discovery and Picard? If so, we need to stop watching them.

I gave up on Discovery two episodes into this season, and don’t plan on watching it despite people saying it is the best Discovery season. I cannot accept the shittiest Star Trek character ever written as being captain of a starship.
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:17pm (UTC -5)
@Frank A. Booze
It's hard to say, but I suspect that the majority of fans are a younger crowd who just like modern science fiction shows, or perhaps fans of the mystery box kinda stuff. It certainly feels like it's not made for a classic Star Trek audience. Of course that's a generalization, as there seems to at least be *some* older fans who like it.

Anyway, we have no control over it. We can not watch, sure, but we can't really control what other people do. Best not to worry about it, we'll always have the old Star Treks. Sadly I think it's unlikely for a show like the older Star Treks to be made in these times, it just doesn't fit the current cultural zeitgiest. But everything is cyclical, so I just hope for better shows in the future, someday.
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:20pm (UTC -5)
Oh... to evidence my point, look at this website. It's clearly very biased towards people who dislike Discovery and Picard, right? And yet, those shows DO have their fans. I suspect the reason why is because the majority of Picard / Disco fans are just not Star Trek fans, so they wouldn't come to a Star Trek website to talk about it.
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Tim M.
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:34pm (UTC -5)
We all remember how much people pooped on VOY and ENT when they were airing, right? History repeating itself.
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Frank A. Booze
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:42pm (UTC -5)
I very much agree with you. We will always have the old shows to watch. And that is very comforting.

I heard Strange New Worlds is supposed to be more episodic, so that might be okay. But throw in 2 camera cuts per second, background music playing constantly, spinning camera shots, an indestructible window on the blast door of the Enterprise, and I might be turned off pretty fast. I did like Anson Mount quite a bit as Pike though. And the actor who played Spock was also good. So I’m willing to give it a fair shot.

A Section 31 show starring Mirror Georgiou is a non starter with me.
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:50pm (UTC -5)
Yeah, sadly you're probably right. But they COULD choose to shoot it like the old shows if they wanted to, right? A less flashy camera, just shooting the actors acting, more stoic Starfleet that actually has values they believe in and that *we're* supposed to believe in, less cynicism and more idealism, more tactful use of music with some star trek like motifs, strong characters that are better at keeping their emotions in check...

They COULD actually do that if they felt like it. Wouldn't that be nice?
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Jaxon
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 11:14pm (UTC -5)
Tim M said:

"We all remember how much people pooped on VOY and ENT when they were airing, right? History repeating itself. "

Those shows were on a network whose suits meddled endlessly with them, forcing them to do this gimmick or that. The "next week" promos were particularly ridiculous, often making an episode look nothing like what it actually was.

The nuTrek shows don;t have that burden...they're poor quality because they;re poor quality.
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NachoPicard
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 11:29pm (UTC -5)
the dialogue, oh man. At one point the Borg Queen literally says "this was my plan all along..."

What hack would ever write that?! You don't outright say that!

I don't know what this show is but it isn't Star Trek
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Flipsider
Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 11:29pm (UTC -5)
Well, it's all relative. When Voyager first came out, to me it was the worst Star Trek so far. Now in retrospect it actually seems pretty decent and watchable, as it still has that Trek sensibility which to me is missing from the modern shows. I still think Voyager is not nearly as good as TOS, TNG, or DS9, because the cast just isn't as strong and they fail to make good use of the show's gimmick. But I can actually watch and enjoy it, unlike the new Star Treks.
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Booming
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 2:02am (UTC -5)
@Ovatus
"I will remember your advice the next time @Booming bullies someone and you tacitly or explicitly encourage it."
Thanks for the shoutout, honey. Love!
Oh and by the way, all your posts are attacks on other people, either explicitly (me and artymiss) or in vague and general terms.

@Flipsider
Sadly, CBS doesn't give out viewer numbers but according to the IMDB ratings the older people are the better they rate the show.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8806524/ratings

(Ignore the below 18 rating because the sample size is too small). As you can the ratings are the lowest for 18 to 29. Equally interesting, the number of female to male ratio and the better ratings from females compared to males. If you compare that to shows like Game of Thrones, Westworld, Orange is the new black or Stranger Things then then you can see that there are no significant gender differences when it comes to ratings (apart from Orange) and the ratio is far less extreme.

Another interesting aspect is the general age, while Orange is the new black had the youngest audience and the most feminine. Picard has the oldest and least feminine. Maybe that explains why they put so much emphasis on feelings and hairstyles (which is the most interesting thing about the show). Star Trek Discovery has similar problems (Burnhams hair is one of the few positive things about; even though she loses out to Drummer from the Expanse when it comes to eye shadow).

Also fascinating is that for the other shows ratings go down the older the viewership while it goes up for Picard.

And lastly, the number of reviews is revealing. Both Picard and Discovery have in comparison very few reviews. Discovery has 116k, Picard has 60k. The next show review-wise would be Orange is the new black with 294k reviews. Game of thrones has almost 2m reviews.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/ratings
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0475784/ratings
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4574334/ratings
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372162/ratings
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/ratings
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Yanks
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 5:36am (UTC -5)
Discovery has tanked during season 4.
Nice video here speaking about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMn6xcwb5d4
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Booming
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:32am (UTC -5)
@Yanks
"Nice video here speaking about this."
I think the analysis leaves quite a bit to be desired. Comparing the drop off percentages of ratings average per season of all trek shows is not a good idea.
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grey cat
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:48am (UTC -5)
@Flipsider I was never a massive VOY fan when it came out either. It's sort of grownon me a little but i've never loved it. Same with ENT.

But after watching DSC both shows look much better. PIC I don't find much of a step down. In fact I find PIC to be more broadly enjoyable and certainly better acted than ENT and VOY. It doesn't have much rewatch value though.

@Booming was that a joke that went over my head? What relevance is the number of GoT reviews compared to DSC/PIC? GoT is well.. GoT - no real need to elaborate.
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Booming
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:26am (UTC -5)
@grey cat
The relevance is viewer engagement. GoT is a fairly recent and very successful show. It has around the same number of episodes who has an average ratings per episode of around 32.000. ST Picard on the other hand has an average of 4.200. An even better comparison would be '"the Witcher" because it started around the same time. It has an average of around 19.000 ratings. Also interesting is the drop off from premiere to season end.

Picard S1 premiere: 6.817; Season end: 3.832 ; s2 premiere: 2.774
GoT S1 premiere: 46.142; Season end: 37.931; s2 premiere: 29.623
Witcher S1 premiere: 23.681; season end: 19.421; s2 premiere: 12.264

So not only has Picard far lower numbers than recent, successful shows but it also lost a far higher percentage of viewers from season to season. In other words, it started weaker and lost more ground. If you keep in mind that all three shows cost around the same during their early seasons, it is no surprise that Picard is ending after three seasons.

Even Discovery had better numbers than Picard, keeping in mind that Discovery was a lot cheaper (30%) than Picard during it's early seasons.
s1 premiere: 7.462; season end: 4.020 ; s2 premiere: 4.622
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C. Obv.
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 8:33am (UTC -5)
"We all remember how much people pooped on VOY and ENT when they were airing, right? History repeating itself."


You know why it's repeating itself? It's because VOY, ENT, and early TNG sucked, too. Fans had every right to complain then, just as they do now.

There are some key differences though

1) those shows did improve during their runs.
2) Due to their episodic nature it's easier to skip the bad episodes of the old shows which tricks the viewer into thinking they were better than they really are.
3) Even the weakest seasons of the old shows managed to have some gems that made the hit to miss ratio more bearable. This gave the viewer some hope at least.


We've had 4 seasons of Discovery and 2 of Picard. Does anyone think things are getting better? Sure, some problematic things get fixed, but they are replaced with new issues that are just as bad.
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grey cat
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 9:18am (UTC -5)
@Booming Ok I understand your point now. Interesting.

@C. Obv.

DSC actually started kinda ok imo but then steadily got worse. By then end of season 3 was beyond dire. Literally unwatchable.

PIC is more frustrating because it has a great cast and flashes of brilliance.. but then goes off on weird tangents and has strange pacing issues etc. Jury is out on whether it's improving because maybe, just maybe, the last 4 episodes will tie it all together beautifully. I mean I am a Star Trek fan so I love to be an optimist.
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Luiz Castanheira
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 10:26am (UTC -5)
https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-picard/s2/two-of-one.php#comment-93543

Where these audience numbers come from?
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Booming
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 10:28am (UTC -5)
@Luiz
IMDb
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MidshipmanNorris
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 1:14pm (UTC -5)
I will always remember the moment Dr. Jurati started singing Pat Benatar as the moment I officially turned in my Trekker Card.

Get off my Viewscreen with this crap.
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Flipsider
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 1:40pm (UTC -5)
@Booming
Ah, that's very interesting, thank you. I wouldn't have thought that older audience members rated Picard more highly. If you look on other message boards or reddit, certainly seems like a lot of the fanbase appear young. I guess that must be a skewed sample or my own imagination, though!
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Jason R.
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 2:02pm (UTC -5)
I think that the older audience's liking of the show can be explained by the fact that the central character, JLP, is a popular character that they grew up with. So the baseline audience, right off the bat, skews older.

Now there are obviously elements that may appeal to younger audiences or have less appeal to older audiences. But either way, the baseline appeal is with a certain generation.
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Flipsider
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 2:24pm (UTC -5)
That certainly makes sense. It just feels a bit surprising as I feel like many of the characters are themselves in name only, and don't really feel like the characters I grew up with.

A lot of people will say things like "they changed, it's been a long time, it makes sense that Picard is like this." But to me, personally, it doesn't make sense... there's ways in which characters can change and grow that feels authentic, that retains the core essence of the character, and I feel like that is not the case with Picard.

Like for example, even with the speech that Picard gave Renee, which a lot of people are holding up as the best part of the episode... to me, personally, that didn't feel like a Picard speech. That felt like an imitation of a Picard speech. To me it sounded like empty platitudes rather than genuine advice, and honestly it didn't feel credible that Renee would be moved by it. "Fear is fear." "there's a light inside you." It sounded nice, but what is the real advice there? I'm not quite sure I get it, and I think Renee should have pushed back more, and the conversation should have had more time and thought put into it. It shouldn't have felt so "easy."
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Jaxon
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 2:35pm (UTC -5)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who found the Speech trite and underwhelming.
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Booming
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 2:50pm (UTC -5)
I found it underwhelming because people here described it like this great thing. It was an ok moment but it seemed out of character for Picard and strange that, after being mentally picked apart by Q for some time, one short speech would turn her around. As flipsider said, it was maybe the right thing to calm her down but not much more. It's soap opera logic. One dramatic speech solves all the problems.
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dave
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:14pm (UTC -5)
It would have been nice if they had this stick in the Confederation timeline and have them work it through there. This 2024 adventure where they are trying to remind us about climate change and how the US enforces immigration policy is not doing very well.

And the whole mystery has so many logic holes it is really hard to get into it with any investment other than "yeah, I have to watch this cause it's Trek".

What a mixed bag we have with this series. I wonder how this all passes the smell test when a veteran like Stewart looks this over. One would think he would ask to pare down this plot to something more cohesive and reflective of what the fans want.

They tried to make something appeal to young modern people; which may sound nice on the surface. But they are not getting excited about Trek without having the deep history to understand why it's like this; so they are left with the legacy fans. ANd they are mostly lukewarm to outright disliking this to only watching it to be completionists.

I think, ultimately, they have no idea who they want as viewers and are delivering a product that isn't appealing to any group in a way that will drive viewership.
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Jason R.
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:14pm (UTC -5)
Picard in TNG didn't just make trite appeals to emotion and sentimentality - they were grounded in ethics and logic. You could take any old speech from any random episode from TNG (and many of them featured this kind of rhetoric from Picard) and you'd find the same thing. This goes right back to episodes like Encounter at Farpoint and Hide and Q.

There's absolutely nothing like that in anything Picard has said in this show. Zero logic. Zero ethics. Absolutely zero intellectual content. Patrick Stewart is delivering the lines but it sounds nothing like Picard. People change as they age, but come on.
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Jason R.
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:32pm (UTC -5)
Just to illustrate my point. From Stardust City Rag, Picard's speech to Seven:

"But... murder is not justice. There is no solace in revenge. You have had your humanity restored to you. Don't squander it now"

From Encounter at Farpoint:

"Captain Jean-Luc Picard : We humans know our past, even when we're ashamed of it. I recognize this court system as the one that agreed with that line from Shakespeare: "Kill all the lawyers."

I just pulled those two at random, but it should be noted that the pickings are really slim in Picard while I could have picked almost any episode from TNG and found something comparable. The EAF quote was probably his first speech and actually it is thematically not unlike the Stardust City quote, incidentally.

My point is you don't have to go to Measure of a Man or the Drumhead to find comparable quotes where Picard expresses an ethical viewpoint with reference to history or literature. His appeals are intellectual. He doesn't just spout out cliches.

The Picard quote is about as eloquent as the show gets and what have you got? Basically a recitation of cliches based on a purely emotional pitch. It amounts to: revenge is bad! Don't do it!

If I'm wrong I challenge someone to grab a better quote from Picard that is more than just some emotional outburst.

I mean even his argument with Q in the first episode is just "damn you Q stop fucking with me!". Q is as eloquent as ever whereas Picard seems to have lost about 50 IQ points in the last 30 years since TNG.
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Jason R.
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:36pm (UTC -5)
Here's another quote from Season 1 Justice:

"There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions."

I could do this all day. And this is from 1 star episodes.
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dave
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:37pm (UTC -5)
Hate to say this, but if we can take out the "security blanket comfort" of seeing our old characters we have fond memories if; DISC Season 4 is quite a cut about PIC Season 2.

They got more Trek in Season 4 than whatever we are getting now with the great mystery unfolding on Picard.
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Flipsider
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:42pm (UTC -5)
@Jason R. "Picard in TNG didn't just make trite appeals to emotion and sentimentality - they were grounded in ethics and logic."

That's a good way to put it. In TNG, I feel like they did a great job of crafting a well rounded character who managed to be intellectually deep and inspiring. In Picard, I don't really know what Picard's ethics are. In general, I feel like the characters are written in terms of simplistic emotions, and not really as complex characters with personalities or ideas or ethics.

For those that liked that speech, I think I understand... it's a scene that feels more like how you'd wish a "Picard" show would be. It reminds me of the Data scene from Picard season 1; sometimes the show has these little traces of what we used to love from TNG. I guess we keep hoping to see the writers lean into that more and embrace it, but sadly they seem content to mostly fill up the episodes with car chases and melodrama. And that just doesn't leave very much time to explore meaningful character writing, so what we get tends to feel trite.
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Top-Rob
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:46pm (UTC -5)
I don't want anyone to take offense but this series is one plothole after another. I just cannot suspend my disbelief this far when the stories just don't make any sense. So much has been said already so I just wanted to point out one thing that I thought was major and I've not yet seen anyone talk about =>
Why does Agnes not try to repair Picard? They would rather have an 'ancient' docter look at him? Seriously? Picard is an android and you have a brilliant cyberneticist on call that... you know... HELPED BUILT PICARD'S ANDROID BODY?
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Top Hat
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 4:51pm (UTC -5)
I'd like to submit that the IMDb ratings don't measure much, except maybe one episode of the same show to another. The voters are people who take the time rate episodes on IMDb. This is something I've never done, and I bet the majority of you haven't done so either. The reviews are maybe interesting but they don't prove anything about the general audience.
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Sen-Sors
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 5:04pm (UTC -5)
Picard's speech at the end of season 1 was the same, a naked emotional appeal you'd find in any Disney joint. "Soji, we wuv you, please don't blow us up."
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Booming
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:14pm (UTC -5)
@Tophat
the imdb stats are an interesting data point. It's the biggest review page on the internet with around half a billion visitors per month. In a purely scientific way the numbers obviously have some downsides. Still it can give some interesting hints about the actual viewership of any given show.
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Dom
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:39pm (UTC -5)
@Jason R & Flipsider, you both make great points about Picard. The Picard show seems to alternate between belittling Picard and making him into a paragon of grandfatherly kindness. Picard in TNG was a statesman and an intellectual. He strove to do what was right, but that sense of rightness came from principles and thoughtful arguments about what was in humanity's long-term interest. He wasn't naive and he wasn't just sentimental.

In one of my favorite TNG episodes, "The Wounded," Picard stops Starfleet Captain Ben Maxwell from attacking Cardassian ships. Maxwell claimed that the Cardassians were illegally transporting weapons, which the Cardassians deny. When Gul Macet thanks Picard for stopping Maxwell, Picard makes clear that he wasn't fooled by the Cardassian denials. He stopped Maxwell because Picard cared more about preserving the peace and was willing to take a risk for peace. Picard made an ethical decision rooted in a clear-eyed understanding of the facts. I think modern Trek would doing a similar scene would reinterpret that scene and have Picard claim he stopped Maxwell because that's what good guys do.
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Top Hat
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:05pm (UTC -5)
Look at the sheer numbers in front of you. 24 people under 18 have rated Star Trek Picard total, vs. 14 990 people over 45. All this tells you is that old people are more likely to rate things on IMDb, which does not come as a shock to me.
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Frank A. Booze
Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 10:57pm (UTC -5)
@Dom

In addition to how you said that scene in “The Wounded” would play out if it were NuTrek, there would also be a different camera cut/angle for every word in Picard’s speech. Furthermore, there would be loud dramatic music telling the viewers they need to take the scene seriously, because apparently it’s impossible in the year 2022 for actors to convey the emotion of a scene without music.

Ughh…NuTrek is a giant, stinking pile of horse shit. I think I am going to rewatch “The Wounded” now to get rid of that horse shit smell.
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Booming
Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 2:52am (UTC -5)
@Tophat
That there are so few people below 18 ratings is due to the fact that you have to be at least 14 to even make an account, and you need to authenticate yourself. Furthermore, Picard is rated TV-MA meaning that people under 17 are excluded. So in effect from the people below 18, only 17 year olds can give a rating. That's obviously very few.

Orange is the new black has 49.612 ratings in the young category (18 to 29) and 29.482 in the old category (45+). For the Witcher it's 66.668 in the young category and 34.995 in the 45+ category. While Discovery has a fairly old viewership (5.864 to 26.047) as well, it is still significantly younger than Picards. ST:Picard has an age problem and I'm not just talking about Patrick Stewart. :)
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Booming
Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 2:55am (UTC -5)
@Top Hat
Sorry, I wrote your name wrong. My bad!
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Ron Burgundy
Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 7:18am (UTC -5)
Maxwell and O'Brien were tawdry muses, wooing so many booty-licious lifeforms. Their songs called to me. They still do. Irish explorers, bewitching entire civilizations. Drunken, reckless pride. Until, that is, Keiko arrived. Miles became a eunuch, Ben a madman. Damn her and every sprouted salad she force-fed the galaxy.
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Frank A. Booze
Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 2:09pm (UTC -5)
@Ron Burgundy

Is Chief Engineer Logan from the TNG season 1 episode “The Arsenal of Freedom” kind of “a big deal”? Or does he just THINK that he is “kind of a big deal”? I feel as though you would be the most qualified person to answer this question.
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Li'Griv
Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:28pm (UTC -5)
Mr. Booze - ahh what a great name. We should share an eight-ball sometime.

To answer your question - oh no, he was far too Hot to Trot. An insolent Englishman. He was a "big deal" just as Alexander Haig was. A power-hungry simp that exploited confusion and chaos to suckle at the teet of authority. Argyle is greatly missed, as are his socks. I am thankful the crew of the Bradbury "spaced" him. Mission reports are so easy to doctor.
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Yanks
Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 6:16pm (UTC -5)
@C. Obv.

"We've had 4 seasons of Discovery and 2 of Picard. Does anyone think things are getting better?"

Season 4 ratings for Discovery are in the tank and it's my belief that Picard season 2 is doing the same thing. Hence why they threw out the big TNG reunion for season 3 before season 2 was over.
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DexterMorgan
Wed, May 18, 2022, 1:53pm (UTC -5)
Hey Jammer, how much is CBS paying you to give this drek two stars? Good god. This episode was MINUS FIVE STARS!!
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Done
Fri, May 20, 2022, 6:19am (UTC -5)
The redletter media review of this season is bang on point. This just isn't the same jean luc. The writing is bad BAD. And in the name of what? Money? Certainly not longevity.
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Austin
Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 11:05pm (UTC -5)
I would give this episode maybe 1 star. That’s being generous. It’s just like Tropesville and the good parts are so ham fisted they fall flat. There is absolutely no cohesiveness to this mess and it pains me to see the character Picard have to put up with the ineptness of the series Picard.

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