Star Trek: Picard
Air date: 2/23/2023
Written by Christopher Monfette & Sean Tretta
Directed by Doug Aarniokoski
Review by Jamahl Epsicokhan
Jack Crusher asks Picard, "Is there anyone you know who is still the person you knew?" It's a question central to this season — and perhaps this series — that I think is especially useful to consider as we catch up with characters whom we haven't seen in over 20 years. I've heard complaints that Picard and Seven are unrecognizable compared to who they were 20 years ago. I don't necessarily even agree with that, but to a certain degree, isn't that the point?
The question is asked about halfway through "Disengage," which is an efficient, straightforward, tried-and-true Standoff Situation. In this scenario we have the heroes and villains in close proximity, and the villains provide a deadline that, if not met, means the unleashing of firepower that promises annihilation. It's certainly not the newest or freshest idea on the block, but as a way of establishing the core conflict with the key players, it does so with an adequate amount of interest and tension.
Opening with a flashback to "two weeks ago," we see Beverly's son Jack (Ed Speleers) on a mission to deliver medical supplies in a war zone. When some Fenris Rangers stop his ship for inspection, he tries to bribe them with weapons. They accept, but then call for the "marked woman" to inform her that they have "found him." Fast-forwarding to now, Picard and Riker find themselves in dire straits, trapped on Crusher's ship with no way out and the enemy vessel closing in. The only hope for escape comes from the Titan, if Seven can first guilt Shaw into entering the nebula to mount a rescue, at great risk to his crew. Throughout the episode, Shaw actually makes a number of valid points about not putting his crew in jeopardy to save the lives of two officers who have gone rogue to save a man whose true motives remain unknown, but Shaw is portrayed as such an insufferably feckless asshat that it's really hard not to hate him (which, admittedly, is the point).
Once Shaw comes to his senses and our people are back aboard the Titan along with the Crushers, the question becomes what to do with Jack. The villain captain, a woman named Vadic (Amanda Plummer, daughter of Christopher Plummer, who also once played a flamboyant Trek villain), wants Jack turned over to her for unknown reasons. Her ship, the Shrike, is armed to the teeth with every weapon imaginable ("and then some") and flies the flag of no government. Vadic is a colorful and intriguingly promising villain that seems equal parts intelligent and unhinged, and she has a nice little speech explaining the name of her ship, and how the bird it's named for attacks its prey with systematic scalpel-like precision that reduces the prey to a helplessly weakened state.
Jack's true motives also remain unclear, although Starfleet's files on him uncover a half-dozen aliases and illegal — although not morally corrupt — activity. The question of whether or not to protect him is mostly academic. Of course we're not going to turn him over, despite Shaw's insistence that it's the prudent move. But it remains an open question (not answered here) why Vadic wants him. Despite the rather obviousness of the plot's trajectory, the story is able to keep the tension sustained and Jack's motivations unknown while the drama plays out on the bridge of the Titan, which I just love the design of, despite the implausible darkness (which does admittedly make all those wonderful LCARS displays just pop).
The big moment comes when Crusher wakes up and arrives on the bridge and gives Picard a look from across the room. With this look, Picard knows what Riker earlier had suspected and pressed Picard to consider — that Jack is actually his son. And with that, Picard springs into action and gives the order to Engage. Hopefully this will ultimately pay off, because for all the parallels this is surely intended to conjure of Kirk, Carol, and David Marcus, it seems there would have to be a much bigger reason for why Beverly would keep such a secret from Picard.
The parallel plot with Raffi trying to figure out her next move after the attack on the Starfleet recruitment facility (resulting in at least 117 confirmed dead, although the scale of the disaster seems like it must surely be far more) doesn't fare quite as well, thanks largely to an early scene that does itself zero favors by trapping the character in Hopelessly Contrived Exposition Central. The dialogue is at its worst when it's having Raffi explain recent events and how they make her feel with such clunkiness that you can almost sense the writers are just trying to get it out of the way with the least effort possible so they can move on to the next scene. It's completely unnatural and unnecessary. Do better along these lines, please.
Despite being warned by her secret-identity handler not to go back and ask more questions lest she gets herself killed, Raffi hits the streets to do some more undercover prodding, which takes her to the back alleys of an alien city which may or may not be the one from last week but certainly looks the same, where she has a meeting with the estranged father of her son who may have a contact who has more information. He gives Raffi a rather contrived and unfair ultimatum: Give up all this obsessive underworld/undercover nonsense to have a chance at having a possible relationship with her son and granddaughter, or take the information that he has. You'd think he'd be a little more understanding given that she works for Starfleet Intelligence and there was just this massively brazen attack on a Starfleet facility (not to mention how her previously dismissed conspiracies about the synthetic uprising at Utopia Planitia not being what it seemed later turning out to be right), but whatever.
This leads us to a scene where Raffi tries to con a Ferengi gangster named Sneed (effectively played by Aaron Stanford as a criminal lowlife who definitely has a Ferengi sensibility to him) into explaining who actually ordered the attack, since the alleged mastermind, a Romulan dissident named Lurak t'Luco, was merely a fall guy whom Raffi claims to work for. Sneed cons Raffi into doing drugs to prove she's not an undercover agent — erasing years of sobriety to pile on more angst to a character who doesn't at all need it — and then reveals just how in over her head she is when he shows that he has t'Luco's head as a trophy.
But then Worf gets the Worfiest of entrances, storming the scene in the nick of time to save Raffi (it turns out he's actually her mysterious handler), slicing and dicing through the guards with his mek'leth. It's a great and fun entrance. Worf's awesome entrance aside, this entire plot feels completely divorced in tone and practicality from everything else, and I'm hoping now with his appearance we can just get everyone working together in one place (or at least one combined plot) so we can be out of this half-assed underworld, which feels too contrived to fit in with everything else.
Despite these issues, I'm still thoroughly enjoying this. Hopefully they can keep it up.
Previous episode: The Next Generation
Next episode: Seventeen Seconds
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183 comments on this post
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:52am (UTC -5)
That episode was last week.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:56am (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:10am (UTC -5)
Because that is SOOO Beverly's TNG character..
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:14am (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:24am (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:30am (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:48am (UTC -5)
Getting a little tired of it, I hope they wrap that part of it up and do something new.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 6:25am (UTC -5)
I've already lost interest. No desire to analyze this in great detail, so shall limit myself to some general nitpicking / criticisms:
- Far too much time on the half-baked Blade Runner planet.
- "I dunno - but they look pissed." - Sidney LaForge. Such language while at your post - what would your father think? Also, the "father taught me one thing" line was gratuitous.
- If ever there were a character I'd be happy to know less about, it's Raffi. This might be the first time I've suggested this, but I could do with *less* character development. Have her serve the plot and no more - get Worf to where he needs to be and discard. I don't care one iota about anything to do with her checkered past and failings as a parent.
- Ferengi don't have 5 O'clock shadow or use human colloquialisms. I also see the original iteration of Section 31 are now on par with the rest of NuTrek so far as being a secretive organization every low life mid-tier criminal apparently knows about.
- Jack Crusher is irritating in an Outrageous Okona sort of way. I *hate* The Outrageous Okona.
- Vedik / Vadik / whatever her name is - what the actual fuck? Is this some ill-conceived tribute to the theatrical performance of Christopher Plummer in The Undiscovered Country? Again - what the actual fuck? Beyond cartoonish.
- The quip level isn't as egregious as SNW, but it's still there. The same awkward "reading from a clever script" dialogue never strikes me as natural.
- You are required to give me the power level of the force field? Did no one have any more inventive ideas to spring Jack than this sheer dumbassery?
- The Crusher / Picard reunion was nice enough.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
I've gotta ask - what alternate universe did the early reviewers who fawned over this season obtain the episodes from? Two episodes in and all I see is the same ol' NuTrek thru and thru that I'd happily left behind. I was significantly more invested at this juncture in S2.
A particularly cold-hearted 1.5 out of 5.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 7:15am (UTC -5)
There's a fair amount here in the plus column. Shaw's characterization deepens over the course of the episode, revealing someone with nuance and hints of past trauma. Worf's entry was a crowning moment of badass. I liked the Ferengi redesign (glad to see the lower face is free, allowing for more face acting) and the character left an impression of some level of menace, not just a buffoon (which already puts it above basically any live-action Ferengi depictions not on DS9).
I'm resigned to the whole Picard has a son thing - though I am still hoping for some sort of strange twist to come. I thought it was a bit of a strange choice to have Bev out of commission until the final 10 mins, but I guess they wanted to floor us with that nonverbal scene the episode ended with. I warmed to Ed Speeler's take on Jack Crusher over the course of this episode - they made him seem at least somewhat intriguing as a character - but I was really wishing the mid-episode drop regarding his many aliases meant he was just some rando con man who happened to be pretending to be Beverly's son.
Vadic is incredibly campy - I cannot take her seriously - but Trek has often been campy in the past, so this is one thing I'll let slide. I do think it's a good choice to have her someone who is enjoying herself, rather than just another stoic badass. Makes her scenes far more dynamic.
The negative column is basically everything with Raffi. Honestly I feel like Michelle Hurd's acting gets worse and worse with every season of Picard. She really only seems to have one mode, which is reading her lines in an overwrought fashion. Her middle scene with her ex-husband (who somehow just happened to live on the planet she was on) in particular was cringe inducing. I actually liked her final scene with the Ferengi, though that wasn't on her.
More generally, I'm getting nervous regarding the quality of the show's writing overall at this point. I understand that Matalas wasn't really showrunner last time around, but we have the writer's credits for much of the first season out already and it's the same people who wrote season 2 - people who he brought over from 12 Monkeys for the most part. The overall narrative seems to be more cohesive, but I'm already seeing signs of sloppy, plot-focused writing - characters getting "hunches" which prove to be correct, amazing coincidences which happen because they need to, etc.
The advance reviewers seemed to suggest a major jump in quality in episodes 3-4. Let's hope that's what they were giving rave reviews to.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:05am (UTC -5)
Complaining about dialogue is a minor quibble, fine, I'm guilty. Do modern audiences though REALLY need cute/witty lines like that to trigger all the feels, and to be engaged with the plot?? It's little moments like that in NuTrek that unfortunately rip me right out of the element and make me think "they're trying too hard here." Marvel's success (and the Wrath of Khan for that matter!) just stains everything at this point, imo.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:21am (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:28am (UTC -5)
All of this being said, there is something that almost redeems it for me: The TNG crew are starting to feel like themselves. Riker has been in character from he very beginning, and in this episode I even started to be convinced that Patrick Stewart was Picard, which hasn't happened to me in a very long time. The episode surprised me by acknowledging that we all know Jack is Picard's son, rather than assuming viewers are idiots and stretching the mystery a full hour or two. How Picard comes to terms with it also executed in a way that feels appropiate for the character in that situation. Another pleasant surprise.
Perhaps this is what the rave reviews are ultimately about: If the legacy characters feel genuine and are given a good sendoff, it is possible most of us will ultimately go along with it and forget the mediocrity of the whole thing. Pure emotional manipulation, but it might be better than nothing.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:43am (UTC -5)
* The Ferengi (Liked the redesign.)
* Worf’s grand entrance!
* The whole confrontation with the Bounty Hunter.
* The “surprise” reveal. (Who didn’t see that coming? It was certainly no surprise to Riker!)
* “She threw a ship at us!”
* Cinematography was still too dark in places.
* The escape from the brig. (Really??)
* Some of the dialogue was a little “too cute”.
Still … A good time!
Three Stars from me!
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:12am (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:41am (UTC -5)
Methinks the early reviewers were mostly enthusiastic about getting to be the cool insiders with early access.
I didn't hate it. It was an enjoyable watch, competent enough, but also just kind of a mechanical exercise in having stuff happen. I know we're only two episodes in but I would characterize the season so far as "fine." I'm enjoying myself, but it's not high art.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:46am (UTC -5)
The advance reviews and gossip I've heard have all said this is Beverly's moment, and this episode was at least a bit too long without her getting to actually speak beyond Dramatic Trailer Tag. I'm reminded of the leadup to the Judge's song from Trial by Jury, you know?
"She'll tell us how! She'll tell us how!"
"I'll tell you how!"
She'll tell us how! She'll tell us how!"
"Let me speak!"
"Let her speak! Let her speak!"
"Let me speak, let me speak, let me SPEAK!"
"yes, yes, let her speak. Let. Her. Speak. SHE'LL TELL US HOOOOWWWWW! SHE'LL TELL US HOW!"
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:53am (UTC -5)
I recently watched all of DS9 for the first time ( the only Trek series I never saw when it was new) and found myself incredibly engaged with many of those episodes, and thoroughly impressed with performances by the main ensemble and in particular character actors Marc Alaimo & Andrew Robinson.
So those eps were new to ME, and I found them more exciting/interesting then the newer Trek coming at us now.
I’ll continue to watch, but my hopes for this franchise is waning. A lot of film/tv is dark & downbeat these days—I suppose it reflects the times we live in. We need something to shake us out out of these doldrums!
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 11:40am (UTC -5)
Behold Beverly's "character development".
* If instead of a sexual relationship, Bev pulled some kind of Seska on Chakotay thing, so much the worse.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 11:45am (UTC -5)
Never mind...that's a rhetorical question whose answer will surely be stupid. I almost expect the Ferengi gangster's wife to be the admiral that told Picard to "shut the fuck up".
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 12:09pm (UTC -5)
After all: who *didn't* see the Jack Crusher reveal coming? I'm hard pressed to see how the writers will explain this one without turning Beverly into a horrible mother for abandoning her child in his formative years and never even telling the father of his existence.
As for the mention of the name Mariposa... Sure, that's the name of Rios' organization. But it's also the name of that colony full of clones in the TNG episode Up The Long Ladder. Could be a coincidence...
Also, it seems likely that the Vadic woman is not going to be the big bad. They wouldn't use most of her main villain lines from the trailer in the second episode, right? And the less said about her accent the better... I like a bit of fan service, but by next week I expect to see Amanda Plummer swiveling around in her chair cackling Shakespeare lines in the original Klingon.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 12:12pm (UTC -5)
This felt too cinematic. Too dark. The bridge is dark and gloomy. I get that we get conflict. I get that drama is necessary. But the darkness of the bridge annoys me. Health and safety? I know it is "red alert" but I just feel annoyed.
Story-wise, yeah. It is fine. We get that we have a Picard jr.
The ONLY things I really liked was Worf's entrance. Picard looking at Crusher silently and that was all we needed to know
Though it is better than the 1st two seasons
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 12:27pm (UTC -5)
Beverly" "Trust no one!"
Riker: "I know how we can hitch a ride"
Picard:"Hi Seven...what's your captain like?"
Seven: "He's an asshole."
Riker and Picard in unison: "SOLD! Let's go!
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:13pm (UTC -5)
But there’s so much established lore, the creators are faced with a dilemma:
1. If you stick with established lore, you’re stuck with the issue of newcomers not understanding who these characters are & why anything in this universe works the way it does.
2. Or you explain everything, which is boring for longtime fans & replaces genuine storytelling with exposition.
3. Or you ignore established lore/canon and piss off the generations of fans you’ve built up for decades.
You’ve got some leeway with new characters in shows like Discovery (although they were hamstrung by making it a prequel) but when you’re going back to a previous cast that had years of tv & movies establishing their backstory, you are relying on longtime fans to be your MAIN audience—not newcomers. I feel it’s “fan disservice” to ignore the hard work previous creators put into bringing this franchise to life and sustaining it for years.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:21pm (UTC -5)
So I would offer a choice 4....No More Star Trek.
Create your own universe instead of leeching onto an existing one, especially if your answer is [3.] in your list and you don't want to be burdened with canon.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:30pm (UTC -5)
2. Or you explain everything, which is boring for longtime fans & replaces genuine storytelling with exposition."
Complete rubbish. Good writers can easily accommodate existing lore in a way that doesn't violate what came before or alienate newcomers.
That said nuTrek's writers are lazy and incompetent so for them it is admittedly hard.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:31pm (UTC -5)
Just to cherry pick one example: did you ever think they simply fucked up and didn't realize Jack's watch wasn't "just a watch" (he makes a point of looking at it, at the start of the episode). Guy's been doing this for a while. Probably has tricks for just this situation.
And continuing on from that, "you have to tell me the power level" was laughable, but not unrealistic. A seemingly absurd law being put in place because something happened to one person once is absolutely realistic, even if it feels silly.
They, too, in-universe would probably roll their eyes at it. But Jack, instead, exploits it -- quite likely just to get the guy closer and doesn't even care about the power level.
Anyway, yeah, Raffi's b-plot brings the show to a halt. At least until she starts talking to Sneed and completely fucks up that entire op. If I had to guess, she's going to get some hard lessons from Worf and come out the other end of this a much more competent, likable character.
Vadic is FUN, and she's definitely HAVING fun... but she better have a couple more layers of depth or that whole shtick will grow old super fast.
That said, good times. If we maintain this momentum for a couple more episodes I think we'll be good. And I'll have more faith they can stick this landing.
But so far, so good.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:38pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:42pm (UTC -5)
That being said this season seems like it’s on a pretty decent trajectory. I would say that previous seasons felt too much like PatStew and not enough like Picard.
That’s not true this time.
Raffi continues to be somewhat problematic but the underworld of the galaxy is kind of an interesting place. Would like to see it explored more.
Worf! Let’s hope his story isn’t confined to Raffi.
Crusher and Picard said it all without saying anything. Powerful moment in trek. One of the most powerful.
Based on reviews it seems the next 2 episodes will really be amazing and we will see where the series goes from there.
I like the element of rogues out in the galaxy disobeying the sclerotic orders of the federation. We all know the Federation is a fairly corrupt beaurocratic place and some rogue energy would be a good injection into the galaxy.
Looking forward to the rest of the season.
3 stars. Not amazing but not bad and setting up for hopefully a fun rest of the season. However, even the best serialozed storytelling seems to be weaker than the episodic form we started to get with Lower Decks and SNW.
Hopefully the Paramount people realize this and play to Treks strengths going forward.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:52pm (UTC -5)
Yes, that's just what Gene imagined it to be...
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:58pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:02pm (UTC -5)
The latter's philandering would make him not live up to 2023's scrutiny, but that's not where he lived. Judging past deeds in current norm courts is cheating.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:12pm (UTC -5)
The stand-off(s) between the Shrike and the two Starfleet ships were tense and kept me on edge. Particularly thrilling was when Vadic threw the Eleos at the Titan. In the face of such a powerful enemy, it’s surprising Picard and Riker would be sticking their neck out so much for Jack, but I suppose it was out of obligation their former comrade.
Raffi being in random clubs is getting repetitive. It’s hard to care about her character interactions when the setting is the same old sleezy hangout and desperate pleas involving drugs. I hope we can see more of the intelligent Raffi we saw in season 2. That said, Sneed was interesting (This is a Warcraft reference, right?) and Worf’s entrance was about as badass you could expect from the character.
Jack’s reveal at the end was a bit of a surprise though the timeline checks out. It makes you wonder how (Jack happened) and why Beverly hid the fact from Picard. It was also surprising that Shaw’s attitude changed immediately after the reveal. It’s as if Shaw understood that despite Jack’s penchant for troublemaking, Picard and the Federation owed the boy some level of protection.
I think I’ve talked myself into a 2.5. Not as good as last week, but still, plenty to chew on.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 3:21pm (UTC -5)
NuTrek's greatest failing is timidity. Instead of using the Star Trek setting to do something interesting, they always go for the save bet. It has no real identity, it never tells a meaningful story.
I still remember how they tackled climate change:"Fire poisons the sky, trees gone, water dry." That's an actual quote from season 2. That's not how climate change works but it certainly is the most corporate friendly version. People, let's just hope that we can get rid of those damned forest fires before they poison the sky and make the water dry. Stop it forests!
Or poverty. They never really address those issues. That is the main problem with all of these shows, they seem so disinterested in all the problems. They are handled like props. Oh and the most insulting part. A microbe from a space mission solves climate change and, I guess, anything else. Phew, calm down people we do not have to change anything, the microbe will.
And this season, like season 2... Carries Fisher said it best: It's about family, that's what so powerful about it."
PS: I just want to mention that Robot Picard is in no way related to Jack Crusher. Think about it. You have a child, you had absolutely no part in the upbringing of that child and then they copied your brain patterns into a robot. Is that new entity then the father? Are you? Let's not forget robot Picard has just a copy of Human Picard's mind at a certain point. The actual Human Picard died. How is robot Picard even still admiral?
PPS: Is there something wrong in the Picard gene pool? The women are all clinically depressed, the men (apart from Picard) are all pricks and now we find out that Human Picard's son is a hardened criminal.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 4:43pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 5:11pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 5:16pm (UTC -5)
I'm not looking for reasons to hate this. Yes there are jerky moments but, Lower Decks aside, these two episodes represent the best Star Trek for 20 years.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 5:17pm (UTC -5)
This is deja vu from last season. You had a tolerable but still painful first episode that everyone is somehow praising like it's the next Citizen Kane. Then things go completely off the rails in the second episode.
People aren't circle jerking to it like last season, but they're not lambasting it either, so no hope for humanity gained there.
I can't say I was disappointed , but that's because I wasn't expecting anything after last season. I wasn't even expecting to watch this, if not for the fact that there's nothing else on in sci fi, but The Last of Us. This episode was so bad in terms of script, dialogue, execution, and timing that it might as well have been misery porn with the level of discomfort it produced. And if I want to indulge in misery porn, I'll binge watch The Handmaid's Tale or any one of Oprah's passion projects.
It was so painful to watch this. This was the agonizer if the agonizer had it's own series. I hate to say it, but it's like geriatric Trek's senescence is affecting the execution of the actual screenplay. All the events occurring on scene are strangely delayed. The only thing missing from the scene where they're transported off the ship is Jack Crusher slapping his forehead as he yells, "the transporter inhibitors!"
The lethargy was palpable. Anytime characters just stand there gawking while somebody casually and lazily throws a spacecraft at them instead of shouting "evasive maneuvers" IMMEDIATELY you know somebody's slipped something more powerful than chamomile into Picard's earl grey. This is exactly what we saw with Jurati Borg Queen's Starfleet booty invasion. Everyone just stood there somehow NOT knowing that you IMMEDIATELY open fire on a Borg.
Even if you're completely outmatched with no chance of victory THIS is the proper reaction under those circumstances:
Or THIS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpunt6Ffl3c
Or THIS: https://youtu.be/lYC8umxPK2s?t=66
Imagine if Data had been as lackadaisical as STP about his data entry in TNG's "Cause and Effect": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsvIT67TrHE
Put some god damned URGENCY in your emergency!
It seems that time is indeed the fire in which we burn.
What's worse they magnified to stupidity of that scene with the next scene where they pretend it was some sort of massive technological advancement for a ship to leisurely throw another ship at you. We saw the Enterprise attempt something similar in Cause and Effect. That adds up to an ordinary incremental improvement in the state of the art, NOT some monumental technological advancement that leaves your jaw on the floor.
What I wouldn't give for a genesis device to drop on this entire series at this point.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 6:29pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 6:36pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 7:12pm (UTC -5)
This week’s hash of criticisms include: the show isn’t meaningful, the characters Are Not The People We Once Knew, some of the crew members do not act professsionally, too many quips/colloquialisms…. All these complaints made within hours of watching, of course.
I don’t agree at all that Star Trek, to be a success, has to be “meaningful.” Plenty of movies were “meaningful” and weee flat-out awful. Most movies directed by Stanley Kramer, for example. Don’t be fooled: If the show were more “meaningful,” the people who complained about a surfeit of meaninglessness will be the first to squawk that the dialogue is too heavy-handed, that boredom has crept in.
(diversion: why are the show’s fiercest detractors always saying “X current show is so much better!” - first, The Orville, then The Mandalorian, then The Expanse, now Andor, I guess. Whatever is needed to score a cheap debating point, as if these shows suffered from NONE of the flaws of Star Trek television. When these shows are offered up as exemplars, the grading is being done on a curve. These shows’ creators never asipired to offering more than mere entertainment, so no one accuses the shows of not being meaningful.
The haters put so many arbitrary preconditional requirements on what constitutes good Star Trek, that by defintion, they will never be satisfied.
The episode was a solid, enjoyable 49 minutes, nothing more, nothing less. Picard first thought to negotiate with Vadic. Seven’s impulsivity remains. Shaw was made more human. Frakes and Stewart are excellent together.
Part of the impossible-to-please-dom comes from blond veneration of Gene Roddenberry, a man who has been dead for over three decades. The more one reads about Roddenberry and pores over his words and actions, the smaller he becomes. Every wonderful thing we all *know* he believes in is offset by what he actually rewrote, what he said in his memos, etc. - the obsessions with genitals and with insisting on how bigotry evaporated (no explanation as to how) 300 years from now. His disastrous rewrites of the Motion picture, his god-head-controlling backwards planet obsessions. Roddenberry did say that he wanted Star Trek to be a “Wagon Train to the Stars,” and that he modeled Kirk after Horatio Hornblower. He wanted the show to have a naval tone and be like a western in space. He did not *really* want the show to be deadly solemn like an Eisenstein movie-he was a tv producer. He is being exalted solely that attacks on each new iteration of Trek, beginning in the ‘80s, sound more “legitimate.” (“This violates Roddenberry’s original intent, so it must be awful!”). The man violated his own original intent when it suited him. But, “Gene wouldn’t have approved” remains permanently lodged near the top of the impossible-to-satisfy preconditions. Anyone ever read the original teleplay by Harlan Ellison for Ciry on the Edge of Forever? Brilliant, he won a writers guild award. But the teleplay had colloquialisms and drug use and characters not behaving like paragons. It worked because it was an entertaining story, well-told, and because it was a beautiful romance. If it was great because it was “the essence of Star Trek,” someone forgot to tell Ellison what that phrase meant.
Sad that some of the people who might be inclined to respond to any of this are the people who talk about crucifixion and euthanasia and agonizers and Genesis devices and mean such quips - sorry, deep i insights-as serious criticism. These are the people who complain about how lazy Star Trek writing has become. In the real world that might be called irony.
Episode 2- a “B,” and a solid three stars.
There can’t be so much as a microbe, boys, or the show’s off
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 7:30pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 7:30pm (UTC -5)
There is no good reason that nuTrek is set in the Star Trek universe other than a shameless desire to start with a guaranteed baseline audience, and memberberries.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:02pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:14pm (UTC -5)
So *The Orville* created its own universe? Well, that’s a new one.
This was very entertaining indeed. It contained the best entrance Worf has ever had and the most emotional moment Picard and Beverly have ever shared.
I watched every episode of TNG and DS9 as they happened. I’m living this.
Roll on next week!
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:15pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:23pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 8:38pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 9:12pm (UTC -5)
But this episode immediately starts paying off the threads introduced in episode 1. The writing has an intent, purpose and authority that we've never before seen in "Picard". It feels more propulsive, and it has a certain clarity about it. You don't feel as though new showrunner Terry Matalas is cynically jerking you around. Instead, everything fits snugly and moves with confidence.
In this episode, I thought virtually everything on the SS Eleos and the USS Titan was excellent. Matalas' version of Picard feels more intelligent and tactical than the Picard we saw in season 1 and 2 (witness, for example, how he anticipates the need for transportation blockers, and how he uses the blockers to determine the villain's true target).
And the new villain, Vadic, is excellent from the get-go. She's a big, scenery-chewing pantomime villain in the vein of Khan and General Chang. Of course we've seen countless Trek stories try to re-produce a villain evocative of Nicholas Meyers' operatic villains, but they never ever work. And yet Matalas seems to get it right immediately. His Vadic is so delightfully mad.
I thought Picard and Riker's conflicts with Captain Shaw were mostly good. Their friction worked for me. I'm not sure I buy Shaw's immediate change of heart toward the end of this episode, but it nevertheless made him immediately sympathetic as a character.
I thought Seven was mostly excellent. She felt like the Seven from Voyager. As for Jack Crusher, this episode opens with a very weak scene with him, which had me ready to hate him and the awful writing he'd undoubtedly be saddled with. And yet by the episode's end I was buying him entirely as Picard's son, and I like the way Matalas highlights both father and son's nobility and sense of ethics; Jack is ready to give himself up for his mother, and Picard and Riker are similarly adamant that it's against Federation values to give even a criminal up without a trial.
(Does anyone understand how Jack gets out of the brig?)
Terry Matalas promised "classic shipboard action" with this season, and I thought this episode delivered on that promise (presumably the next episode will as well). We get a nice cat-and-mouse showdown, and the ships are all photographed well, and look much better than in the previous episode; Crusher's SS Eleos in particular looks great now that we understand how small she is (in relation to the Titan). And the villain's ship, the Shrike, somehow turns old visual cliches into something menacing.
In terms of flaws, I thought Raffi's first scene was somewhat weak (a long monologue with a viewscreen), and I thought her dialogue scene with her husband was far too "contemporary", the husband's phrases, accent, and manner of speaking all poorly selected. Raffi, meanwhile, is still a big of melodramatic cliches. Still, this episode IMO features the best Raffi we've ever seen. Her history with drug addiction, and her past, seems to have real weight.
I thought the flashback sequence with the smugglers which opens the episode was similarly poor, mostly due to the style of line-reading allowed by the director. Trek is not a space opera in the vein of "Star Wars". You can't be having snarky smugglers and mercenaries as you would in a Marvel or Disney show. IMO these guys should all be talking like, I don't know, 17th century gentlemen.
But these complaints are very minor. Prior to this episode, I've only ever liked 2 episodes of "Picard" (bits of "Nepenthe" and "Penance"), and IMO "Disengage" is stronger than both.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:20pm (UTC -5)
- Outstanding acting in the ending scene where Beverly and Jean-Luc just look at each other.
- Todd Stashwick as Capt. Shaw is fantastic.
- Finally a Ferengi is treated as no joke at all, even if he did go full Godfather mode.
- Ed Speleer did a great job imitating Jean-Luc subtly.
- Shaw: “We are essentially cornered. In space. Which has no corners.”
- Why does Raffi whisper when she’s alone in her quarters?
- Sidney Laforge says the Shrike “looks pissed,” IMO a dumb thing to say.
- Vadic guesses "it's morning in Sol System." Oh, writers . . . . . .
Now, about Vadic, the psychotic bounty hunter. There's got to be more there. Her ship is GIGANTIC and super-super-super-overpowered for a bounty hunter. And by the way, who's going to pay her?
I don't dislike the Raffi scenes or the Raffi character as much as a lot of people here. I do hope they give her more to do than suffer. But that's for later. For now, I'm enjoying this a lot, and I don't think that makes me stupid. It's only TV, folks.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:29pm (UTC -5)
Her ship, to me, must be Romulan in origin. It has style cues similar to the Narada, plasma torpedoes, and antimatter missiles (among other things). I’m willing to bet Vadic is backed by a certain Romulan/human hybrid who really, really hates Jean-Luc Picard.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:39pm (UTC -5)
As for the overall plot, it's more mystey-box stuff -- like how his this Jack Crusher Picard's son ("Bloodlines" was running through my mind somehow) and what has Bev Crusher been up to for some 20 years? Is it supposed to be fulfilling somehow to get answers to these contrived questions?
PIC has a real problem with its antagonists -- What is with this Captain Vadic's schtick?
As for Shaw and 7 -- I found it hard to believe she was still giving orders at the start of the episode. Shouldn't she have been put in the brig already? She eventually is relieved for insubordination, but that apparently means nothing as she gets involved looking for Jack Crusher.
I am puzzled by how Shaw is ready to let Jack Crusher transport to the alien ship, but Picard realizes Jack is his son after seeing Bev Crusher and he gives orders to override every one of Shaw's orders and the crew/Shaw immediately comply and decide to run for it. Are the Titan's crew of 500 no longer worth more than Jack? I don't get it...
It's also disappointing if the antagonists are basically bounty hunters and criminals. I do hope there is more to the threat than just that. Or maybe it is really just that and this whole season is just a fan-service romp with little actual substance.
Again, the Raffi scenes were entirely forgettable. I do think Hurd is overacting, trying to portray her messed-up life. And Star Fleet is too obviously covering something up -- just annoying watching the interaction with the Star Fleet computer telling Raffi to drop the investigation.
One other cringe moment was when Laforge says about the alien ship "it looks pissed" -- good grief what terrible, thoughtless writing.
2 stars for "Part Two Disengage" -- just really low quality "entertainment" here, not a lot of attention to detail it seems to me. It's about cheap thrills and cartoon characters. The overall premise / arc isn't very inspiring and I think we're heading along the same disappointing trend as PIC S2 (which was the worst live-action season of Trek ever for me). Perhaps the one bit of intelligence is the part (Jack Crusher's line) about people not who they once were 20 years on and how Riker was hinting at Picard's link to Jack.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 11:52pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 12:00am (UTC -5)
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 9:12pm (UTC -6)
"(Does anyone understand how Jack gets out of the brig?)"
There was no explanation of what he did to the field. He used a device hidden on his wrist. He attached it to a panel on the wall of his cell and briefly shut down the forcefield when he twisted a dial on the device on his wrist. The field instantly came back up after his device detached from the wall as he ran away. Other than that I got nothing.
Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 7:12pm (UTC -6)
"Yay, the mouth breathers and haters are fired up! This week’s hash of criticisms include: the show isn’t meaningful, the characters Are Not The People We Once Knew, some of the crew members do not act professsionally, too many quips/colloquialisms…. All these complaints made within hours of watching, of course."
Shots fired! Unfortunately for you, I've never said any of this. I've often argued against this. Why don't you quote the people you're talking about so there's no confusion? Or is sowing confusion your forte?
"Sad that some of the people who might be inclined to respond to any of this are the people who talk about crucifixion and euthanasia and agonizers and Genesis devices and mean such quips -"
Lmao! This one paragraph seems exclusively aimed at me. Had you not included this paragraph despite your claim I wouldn't have been inclined to respond to anything else you've said, since, I never said any of the other things in the rest of your post. Odd. Was this a pivot? Or did you mix me up with some hallucination in your brain?
"sorry, deep i insights-as serious criticism. "
Was this supposed to be another language besides English or did you have a stroke mid sentence?
"These are the people who complain about how lazy Star Trek writing has become. In the real world that might be called irony."
The real irony is I never said any such thing, but your lazy eye keeps seeing comments under my name that simply aren't there. I've been a fan of Nu Trek except for last season of Picard and now two episodes this season. Did you confuse me for someone else? Transient Ischemic Attack? Weather induced brain freeze? Long Covid? Get your vision corrected or seek help for whatever else is wrong with your discernment.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 12:52am (UTC -5)
WHAT THE F EVER.
I want write a rant, but I don't watch Trek for soap.
What the hell ever. Just watching for good TNG or 7 scenes.
Are they hiring? It's amazing how unskilled modern trek is. At least the casting department knew who to hire?
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 12:58am (UTC -5)
Sometimes the stars align and we get a great show.
I guess some of your post was aimed at me. Let's not turn this into a flame war. You like something, others don't. Star Trek Picard was always a hard sell for me because I get very little out of member berries. Having an 82 year old Patrick Stewart and his octogenarian crew play action hero(ine) for one last time was never going to work for me. Worf slicing up people with his baby bathlet. Another family conflict for Picard. Geordies daughter. The Titan and Seven. I get that this works for others but I just feel manipulated by a multi billion dollar corporation. Seeing Gates Mcfadden with all that plastic surgery... will there ever come a time when Hollywood people will let 70 year old women look like 70 year olds. Filler, Collagen, chemical peels, Botox. It really never ends! I just want to stick my head into the oven when I see that.
My point is, only because I don't like this for specific reasons explained by facets of my personality should not diminish your enjoyment. Like it, don't like it. Who cares? There are more important things in the world to get agitated about. I'm sitting 1500km from a front where 2000 people die every day. So forgive me for not getting to excited about corporate cultural product 913754-xt
And finally, Raffi's story is playing on M'talas Prime... A showrunner having the B-story on a planet named after himself. The sheer fucking hubris!
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 1:08am (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 2:21am (UTC -5)
Other than that (major) nit pick about established canon, I was enjoying the first two episodes up to this point. Especially Worf.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 2:51am (UTC -5)
Well, that computer was Worf..
Still a lot of contrived out of nowhere nonsense in Picard. Out of character too. Logic is out of the window too. CGI of the ships is lacking detail/scale/mass.
Lights are still stuck in Night Shift Mode in each and every scene.
Still, it managed to be somewhat entertaining. Although it offers very little food for thought except how it ignores its own history etc ofcourse ;)
TNG was never about shooting cowboys in space.
And the unique Super Powerrr spaceship no one met or heard of before... with that oumzz sound effect... rehashed stuff... the villain... ouch. One dimensional stuff. I thought they made it very clear they would be pulverized if even starting their engines? So what is that ending about? ;)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:04am (UTC -5)
The best thing about this was Vadic.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:05am (UTC -5)
@Caloceptri I'll address the only bit of that text that I believe raises an actual point: Should we be demanding Star Trek to address intelligent abstract themes, or should good entertainment be enough? Well, allegorical intellectual storytelling has been core to the franchise since the first episode of The Original Series, and it is definitely a cornerstone of The Next Generation. And it isn't just about Gene Roddenberry and a specific vision: Michael Piller famously enforced the "each episode must be ABOUT something "rule.
Should we just let this go, and be content as long as the characters are good, the plot is competent and the universe building is smart? (which, by the way, hasn't been the case for NuTrek so far). I'd argue that it would be very sad if trekkies set the standard that way, because allegorical storytelling is precisely what made Star Trek unique. No other show out there has engaged our intellect in this particular manner, and losing this forever is a very sad proposition. I'd feel very different if many other shows out there were filling this void, or you'd get the occasional dumb action Trek within a see of smarter stuff (as used to be the case).
And for the record, if the tradeoff is more boredom, bring it on. #MakeStarTrekBoringAgain
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:11am (UTC -5)
That Ferengi gangster was perfect, menacing, smart, and yet a bit likable even - pity Worf decided to finish him off.
Vadic just chewed the scenery, she's so over the top, but for some reason, I totally bought it and I'm on board with her. Love her and her silly evil ship. Already more memorable than Soran, Ru'afo, and English Khan combined.
When she flung Bev's ship at the Titan, I gasped, and I was happy to see that the authors understand how shields work.
A few tender moments. Picard seeing Beverly again and non-verbally communicating gave me chills.
Picard and Riker figuring out who he is instead of going "whaaaaat???"
The sets are beautifully made, loved the transporter room and sickbay with its little nod to Voyager's.
Thoroughly enjoyed the episode and thought it got even stronger towards the second half.
- Wish we could acknowledge that Seven, sorry, Annika, is the smartest person in the room and we'd use that. The way she stood up to Shaw in the conference room felt right for her, but the dialogue was ultimately too short.
- Sidney comes across as a little know-it-all, but perhaps that's entirely intended. She's a pure nerd and feels like a self-insert of a star trek fan somehow.
- Raffi should be a bit more professional and emotionally stable. Probably had to go through countless counseling sessions to get back into Starfleet and even end up at SI.
- I reckon that the issue with the light is that Shaw prefers it that way, to keep everyone on edge and understand the dangers of space as in not getting too comfortable. Still, I'd hate to work there on a daily basis.
- Wish they'd show the opening sequence at the beginning.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:42am (UTC -5)
Reckoning from the canon material, Beverly was 40 in S1 TNG,, 55 in Nemesis and 77 in S3 PIC's 2401.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:56am (UTC -5)
"Seeing a lot of comments around about how the Jack = Picard's son reveal was too predictable. This seems to be a widespread misunderstanding of something that felt obvious to me - it was apparent that Jack was Picard's son from the beginning, but that the "reveal" was simply Picard bringing himself to acknowledge this."
I completely agree and am honestly surprised this is going over a lot of people's heads here. This "reveal" is only a reveal to Picard. Riker is the audience stand in. He knows it's obvious, just as we all did from Jack Crusher's first scene. This is called good character work for Picard plus a bonus of not treating the audience like 5 year olds, already light years ahead of anything in season 1 & 2.
Now as to HOW he's Picard's son and why Beverly wanted to keep him a secret, I'm more than willing to go with the show to give us some worthy explanations. I don't get the knee jerk criticism already. Chill out people - we don't really know anything yet!
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:14am (UTC -5)
Just how many hours are we now expected to spend with a show to say whether it's any good?
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:16am (UTC -5)
I thought this was a thoroughly entertaining episode. Picard was as close to being the Picard of old as we've seen all series. Not in the 'Picard as an intellectual' sense, but certainly 'Picard as a great tactician and strategist'. Seven was also great, maintaining a cool professionalism along with providing reasonable counterpoints to Shaw's obstinate views.
On that note, Shaw is shaping up to be a very interesting character. He's not there to be an obstacle for the sake of it - he's clearly got a troubled past (almost certainly involving trauma related to engagements with the Borg and the Dominion as a younger officer). I really like that he came around in the end. Ceding authority to Picard like that wouldn't have been easy.
As for the Vadic and the threat, my theory is still that she's a descendant of an Ent-C officer (possibly even Captain Garrett herself), which would explain why the Starfleet Recruitment building was the first target. I'm also on board with the theory that she (or possibly Sela) are working in tandem with the parasites from 'Conspiracy', hence why Crusher vaporised the bodies of her assailants without compunction. It would also explain why she told Picard not to trust anyone. In addition, it might pave the way for the likes of Lore and Moriarty to return. As synthetic lifeforms, they would be immune.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:17am (UTC -5)
Jack looks in his mid 30s (the actor playing him is 34) so for it to work out date wise Beverly would need to have had him at some point during the run of TNG, kept it secret and sent him off the ship. Why would she do this?! Mind you there is that point when she's replaced by Pulanski... (Crusher off having Jack I suppose!)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:21am (UTC -5)
Jack isn't going to be that old, I assure you.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:29am (UTC -5)
Well that's one hell of a criminal record he's gathered for someone in his what early 20s! (if conceived around Nemesis time) Must be why he's aged so quickly! Seriously why not just cast a younger actor.
I'm overthinking it I know.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:32am (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 5:26am (UTC -5)
Maybe this will finally be the first really good NuTrek season. But when I see several people bringing out the old "Can you not just have fun" argument I wonder if they themselves are not as sure about the quality of this show as they pretend. Happened during the last seasons as well.
A few comments:
- Some people justified the lack of light with submarines. That is actually a myth. People on submarines are not walking around in darkness. For obvious reasons. At night they dim the control room to use the periscope but that should not be an issue on a space ship.
- Making the most famous Klingon in the Federation an undercover agent/handler is amusingly stupid. :D
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 7:13am (UTC -5)
Shaw was right in the first place, but hey, in for a penny, in for a pound.
The scene where Beverly comes on to the bridge may be the best acting of her entire career. She delivered more with that look, without words, than in seven seasons of TNG.
My favorite part of the episode was Riker. "Doesn't he remind you of someone?"
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 7:15am (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 7:56am (UTC -5)
Anyway, they haven't made any big secret out of it. These people do not agree with Roddenberry Trek and they have said so in one interview after another. That is why Star Trek is dead. It died when he did.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 8:03am (UTC -5)
The bridge of all surface ships have large windows for obvious reasons and on more modern ships even the radar rooms are now well lit because modern computer screens do not need a dark room. Same reason why air traffic controllers are not sitting in dark rooms. I just wanted to point out that it is a stylistic choice by the show and that there is no logical reason for it besides that.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 9:06am (UTC -5)
From what I can gather:
If you think it's good:
1 - 5 minutes into the season premiere.
If you don't think it's good:
After the season finale.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 10:08am (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 10:15am (UTC -5)
Captain Shaw obviously has his demons but he should have trusted his judgment. He knew if he did not stand his ground, Picard and Riker would go through with whatever they were planning, and he was right. Shaw seemed very abrasive in episode one and I like him a whole lot in episode 2. It's implausible that Seven could convince him to go against his better judgment. (I find it a little implausible that he would have an ex-borg as XO, especially since she should be in the brig!) What if he got everyone but himself killed? He's going to write 500 families and explain he let a retired admiral take over his ship?? This isn't character growth, it's character inversion.
I don't buy the story, and that's the big problem. A character like Shaw would have put the three of them in the brig and hauled ass back to federation space. Not because he's a wimp, but out of duty and responsibility. Duty and responsibility are some of the best things I've taken from Star Trek.
I did not enjoy the episode and I thought the campy, mustache-twirling villain Honey Bunny was risible. Doesn't anybody watch these things before they go out? (Okay I know they don't because Discovery exists.) Every time I hear Plumber's voice, I picture her standing on a table in the diner at the end of Pulp Fiction. Bad image for a villain.
I think Raffi is an awful character, and I never understood why she was in the show. I never got the impression that she had an actual friendship with "JL." You know what would make me like Raffi? Seeing her at an 12 step meeting. It's really a shame that they have paired up one of the most dishonorable characters in the history of Star Trek with Worf.
I also take issue with Picard being told he doesn't know Doctor Crusher that well and that people change. He was *mentally linked* to Doctor Crusher for many days (TNG "Attached"). I certainly got the impression that Jack was trying to sell guns to both sides of a planetary conflict, which sounds nothing at all like Beverly. People change but I don't believe she would abandon her values.
I thought Generations was a very proper send off for the TNG crew, and subsequent films were lackluster at best and easily forgotten. I know I'm in the minority, but I've watched Generations 100+ times, and every time it's been better than any of Picard.
As a science fiction writer myself I had to wonder, as someone else did, are they hiring? Because they really need somebody who can say: hey everybody's going to hate this or hey, that's been done to death already. I do not love science fiction for the soap. Very soapy episode!
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. "Worf slicing up people with his baby bathlet. Another family conflict for Picard. Geordies daughter. The Titan and Seven. I get that this works for others but I just feel manipulated by a multi billion dollar corporation."
At this point in the series, I'm going to consider this some well financed fanfiction, and I guess I'm okay with that. Aside from Plumber, I haven't seen anything that made me want to turn off my tablet and go to bed.
Final thoughts: Beverly Crusher is a 25th century doctor. It's totally plausible that she either saved some of Picard's semen from a night we don't know about, or more likely, that Picard simply gave it to her. As for the mystery of why she hid him from his father? I don't know, but I think the message I'm getting is that boys need fathers. Statistically speaking, that's a fact.
I was always a big fan of Jonathan Frakes, and this elevates him to legend status. The man is on fire as an actor, at 70 years old! Can we get a Riker series next, please?
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 10:33am (UTC -5)
I'd just like this to stand as vindication of my claim that Riker was one of the most underrated and essential elements making TNG work. Although Stewart and Spiner get all the accolades, Frakes was far more prominent than Spiner on a day-to-day basis and more integral to connect us with the story. Just his reaction shots were excellent, even while Stewart had the limelight.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 11:01am (UTC -5)
Sorry, but statistically speaking this is false. :)
"I'm getting is that boys need fathers. Statistically speaking, that's a fact."
Riker is very important for men as a character. The tall, handsome man who is laid back, popular and competent. He is also a leader and gets all the women. There is a reason why characters like James Bond or Kirk are still around. It's male wish fulfillment.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 11:06am (UTC -5)
There were some very nice moments (the first line spoken by Worf was perfect Worf, 'JL' finally - for one second in three seasons - turning into the Jean-Luc Picard we all remember when he bellows 'Admiral's orders!', the Titan cutting through the tractor beam was for once an excellent use of NuTrek's otherwise excessive CGI, and Shaw's sudden shift), but the NuTrek irritations are all still there and then some - a gorily decapitated Ferengi and Romulan, 'bullshit', drugs, a tedious and hackneyed villain chewing scenery, no real advancement to the actual plot, who Jack Crusher really is or isn't (I can't say I care much either way who he is).
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 11:29am (UTC -5)
I could reference thousands of studies. I didn't mention anything about gay people and I have many gay friends.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 11:52am (UTC -5)
"I have many gay friends."
Seems like everybody has these days. :)
I'm a social scientist. Right now I'm working with confidential population data. In other words, I'm aware.
What you mean is children of single parents. The reasons for why they fare worse has nothing to do with fathers or mothers. Children of single parent families in general fare worse. Causes for that are numerous (Breakup trauma, violence, financial situation and so on). Being a single mother is the biggest poverty risk, even greater than an immigration background.
The NPR article just calls it "fatherless kids" is because that is far more common (around 80%). Here the current numbers for the USA and many more interesting data points. https://singlemotherguide.com/single-mother-statistics/
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 11:53am (UTC -5)
Dirk said: "As a science fiction writer myself I had to wonder, as someone else did, are they hiring? Because they really need somebody who can say..."
I doubt we'll get any serious science fiction in this season. IMO this is a TNG version of "Wrath of Khan". It's an attempt to make a "TNG movie" - an action blockbuster - that fixes some of the problems in films like "Nemesis".
I think we'd all prefer a serious, modern version of TNG, which pushes the science/politics/utopianism of TNG even further, but no writer capable of delivering this is likely to get near the franchise nowadays. IMO the best we can expect from Terry Matalas is a resurrection of the nautical tropes that made some TOS and TNG episodes so fun.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 12:30pm (UTC -5)
“Mind you there’s that point when she is replaced by Pulaski…”
There’s also the point where Gates McFadden was pregnant in real life during most of the 4th season (and they didn’t do the best in hiding it in some eps lol). Maybe they’re retconning that the character was actually pregnant and hiding it too??
I think some things are valid to criticize at this point (acting, lighting, effects, pacing, etc.). I don’t think criticizing the story is quite valid yet because we don’t actually know what it is and whether it’s a worthy idea or not. All we have now are characters and vibe. Once we know the how of Jack Crusher and why Vadic is really after him, I’d reckon it’s fair game. Maybe we’ll know soon enough?
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 12:44pm (UTC -5)
"Riker is very important for men as a character. The tall, handsome man who is laid back, popular and competent. He is also a leader and gets all the women. There is a reason why characters like James Bond or Kirk are still around. It's male wish fulfillment."
I feel like this is a double standard. Have a good leading female lead, and they'll say it's to appeal to the male viewers. But have a good looking male lead, and they'll say it's to appeal to the male viewers. I guess women just don't like anything?
That being said, what makes Riker special isn't his habits regarding women, and in fact I seriously suspect that this is a turnoff for many male TREK viewers. Don't confuse the Bond franchise (in which Bond's female conquests are a running joke, not an appeal to vanity) with the TNG/DS9 era of viewers who consisted of engineers and nerds. Those types don't get off on watching top dog type men get lots of women. What makes Riker appealing, rather, is his vulnerability, that he cares so much about things, and that he gives a warmth and human charm to every scene he's in.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 12:56pm (UTC -5)
"I feel like this is a double standard. Have a good leading female lead,"
I guess you meant good looking. :)
"I guess women just don't like anything?"
To be honest Riker would be my first pick... then Worf. uh, there is a new fantasy. We have to do something about the beard(s), though...
"Those types don't get off on watching top dog type men get lots of women."
I'm not so sure. What nerdy man doesn't at least sometimes dream of being like the cool Riker and then there is Picard the borderline celibate, guarded man. It's the inverse of the Spock Kirk dynamic.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 1:07pm (UTC -5)
This is just me but as a teen watching TOS and TNG I never cared much about Riker or Kirk. Spock was the one I admired and wanted to be most like, followed by Picard.
It's not that I wouldn't have given my left arm to have women throwing themselves at me (literally) but the portrayal of Riker and Kirk's womanizing (or alienizing?) was way too stylized and stilted to be in any way relatable for a teenaged boy.
My two cents anyway.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 1:08pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 1:39pm (UTC -5)
My conclusion is that it seems far-fetched at best to presume that Riker was on TNG to appeal to teenage male fantasies, and against all evidence I've seen that he in fact did that. The types most appealing to the sci-fi/fantasy fans seems to be the intellectual/logic characters and the outsiders. Not much of a surprise there, and we could conclude from this that nerds liked the characters who they identified with or could see as role models, not the characters who on paper look like they could fill some wish fulfillment fantasy.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 2:04pm (UTC -5)
"I don't know, but I think the message I'm getting is that boys need fathers. Statistically speaking, that's a fact."
Absolutely. And I think the work that people like Tony Dungy are doing is so important these days. Credible researchers / sociologists know this as well. Even Obama once spoke about the importance of fathers to young boys. If PIC S3 is bold enough to have this as an underlying theme, I'll stand up and applaud. I hope you are at least partially right, though then the rest of the season may have a some in common with "Bloodlines".
Re. Riker -- I don't know that he was underrated or some such. I've always held the character and actor in high regard and as being extremely well crafted by the writers / producers (especially when TNG had a few main characters and actors that weren't well realized). Riker benefited from being a contrast to Picard, and I think we're getting some of that so far in PIC S3. So as much as I can't recommend PIC S3 thus far, it's not because of the portrayal of Riker and Picard.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 2:42pm (UTC -5)
It's not that nerds don't dream of getting women, but characters like Kirk and Riker aren't relatable, and seeing hot chicks isn't actually what makes a sci-fi TV series successful or what draws a big sci-fi audience.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 2:57pm (UTC -5)
"Peter to be fair the show runners may have mistakenly believed that this was what their audience wanted."
Even so, Booming's position is that Riker *is* very important because he fulfills a male wish-fulfillment fantasy. Not simply that he was intended that way, but that *in fact* he performs this role which, apparently, is why I think Riker is a great character and Frakes was underappreciated in TNG.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:00pm (UTC -5)
The "first officers don't let captains go on away teams" thing was a TNG notion. It let Riker do what Kirk used to.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:13pm (UTC -5)
When you beam a person on board, you surely have his DNA, so everyone would know in an instance if this was really Picard's and Beverly's Son.
And I am pretty sure that in 30 years from now and surely in the 25th century it will be possible for every man and every woman to prevent the conception of a child, I don't believe anyone would have a surprise son. (Kirk did know ...)
And what a strange idea to name the son of your current lover after your former lover/husband ...
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:20pm (UTC -5)
I just don't see it.
This is what was going through my head when I watched this episode.
Captain Shaw is a frellin idiot. Seven has to convince him to go rescue a couple of legends (good on her), he pops in (very, very nice there) gets them out and 7 recommends to him, because they are outgunned and not in federation space they should leave immediately. HE decides to stay, they get their asses handed to them and then he sends 7 to her room?
Who writes this shit? Come on... 7 should have let him have it.
We meet Vadic and my fears from watching the trailers were confirmed. Amanda Plummer is horrible. She looks like ass and is already stinking the joint up. I could have picked 10 other women to play that part (you know it HAD to be a woman)... how the hell did they choose her? ... because her father died? They could have stuck with the '12 Monkey' theme and booked Emily Hampshire - that girl has an acting range and we know she can play a great nut-job.
Was there anyone on the star trek planet that didn't KNOW this was Picard and Beverly's son? Absolutely no surprise there. The scene at the end when Picard finally owns up to being his father was a good one though.
"I'll give you one hour".... why on Earth would she do that? She could have dismantled that ship in 5 minutes and beamed her prize away. Oh, we need time for some poorly written drama...
Why oh why is EVERYTHING so damn dark? This is a Star Fleet ship... for god's sake TURN THE LIGHTS ON!
Worf gets a great entrance, sure - that was pretty cool... I thought it might have been Elnor... but why does he behead the 12-Monkies Ferengi? I guess no one will need him for any of this investigating stuff...
Raffi doesn't ensure whats his name is alive before she goes in and decides to use him as part of her cover? Yikes!
Picard needs to clear his damn throat.
Positives... the kid that is playing Jack Crusher is very talented. Riker steals every scene he's in. Seven is awesome. That scene where the ship warps in and disables the tractor beam was awesome, but one wonders how they got accurate enough sensor data from inside the nebula.
I'm already frustrated and we are only 2 episodes in.
Booming, interesting thought on Picard not really being his father.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 3:25pm (UTC -5)
"Riker was basically a Kirk as first officer backup plan in case the experiment of a cerebral, Shakespearean captain didn't go over as planned."
I'm not sure. Riker, originally conceived for ST: Phase II as William Decker (to replace Spock as 1st officer) was supposed to be quite different from Kirk, as we see from Decker's portrayal in ST: TMP. They used the Decker character bible for Riker in TNG, and I have to surmise they likewise intended him to be more technically minded than Kirk, and less adventurous. Since some early TNG scripts were either TOS copies or recycled Phase II stories, there probably wasn't that much room to suddenly re-work the character all of a sudden when they started actually filming TNG. My conclusion is that a lot of what we attribute to Riker probably came from Frakes' own take on the character, and after not too long they would begin writing for him rather than for the character bible version. I'll also point out that as of Encounter at Farpoint, Riker had been branded as a 'problem officer' for reasons we're not exactly told, and so on that front as well he wasn't going be to like the legendary Kirk who was best at everything.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:22pm (UTC -5)
One takeaway for me is that I’ll be sticking with my decision to bail on the show itself after S2’s premiere. It’s simply not what I imagined Picard or Trek could or would be, and I’m confident it never will be.
I’m all for living in the moment and just having a good time. However, the reality, for me, at least, is that being in the moment of watching PIC as well as DISCO brings me no joy. It’s like watching a friend or a loved one of whom you know they are capable of so much more. And, at the end of the day, it comes down to the two things that will always make or break any story, and that’s the writing and the characters. And they’re just not where they need to be IMHO.
Right now, I’m actually watching no Trek at all. I’m not rewatching any of the old shows or movies, nor am I watching any of the shows currently putting out new episodes. That’ll change for sure, at least as far as the old shows are concerned. As for new ones, I think we’ll need to be beyond the Kurtzman era before I have a hope of actually enjoying Trek again.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:28pm (UTC -5)
I always thought Riker needed a series of his own set on board the Titan. I liked the Lower Decks episodes with Boimler at the helm. I actually wanted more of those episodes.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:54pm (UTC -5)
i) Disregarding the previous two seasons and judging it in a vacuum. Whether you put the rest of the series to the side or raise the bar and demand better – that’s the choice of the individual viewer; there's no right or wrong way to view this season.
ii) Member-berry threshold; some people can only resist so much before finally caving and gobbling up the nostalgia bait.
iii) The need for Trek. We’re all at different points on the fandom spectrum. I was a fan since the 90’s and until recently persisted in watching, in spite of the overwhelming evidence that had piled up since 2017 that this was no longer something I enjoyed. I called it quits after SNW and am quite comfortable remaining divorced from the rest of the franchise. Even if Picard’s remaining episodes knock it out of the park, I’m not interested in giving anything else a chance. I wasn’t interested in giving Picard another chance either but was pulled back in by some of the show’s harsher critics that had early access. Anyway, my point is - if you’re still invested in the franchise and a fan of TNG, you might be quicker to latch on to hope of a turnaround at the first glimmer of something not-terrible.
iv) The early access reviewers (many of whom were detractors of the prev. two seasons) trumpeting how good this season is may have influenced some biases.
v) Some people just like it for what it is. The cigar - in this case - is just a cigar.
Whatever the case is for each individual, I am witnessing a double standard perpetuated by those defending the show. We only have a couple of episodes to judge; given the format, it's unfair to form such harsh criticism. Yet apparently, there are enough episodes to form a positive opinion. I'm not judging the rest of the season - only the episodes I've seen so far. What I have seen has not impressed - simple as that. The format of the series - namely serialized mystery box / it's a novel and each episode are individual chapters - is a poor defence. Each chapter of this 10-episode novel still has a duty to entertain and engage the viewer. If individual entries can't stand on their own, might I suggest Paramount just drop the whole season in one hit Netflix-style?
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 4:55pm (UTC -5)
The Roddenberry era Trek purposefully avoided contemporary slang, so it's likely that another 50 years from now, it will be less dated than nuTrek is.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 5:34pm (UTC -5)
This season is really looking to be more like a 10 hour film, rather than arc structured like the prior seasons. (I could honestly even see this whole season taking place in that nebula a la Wrath of Khan.) To make an analogy, would you really judge a mystery novel based on reading the first 20%? Or do you want to see how it unfolds before making any judgments?
I am liking what we have so far. It has me intrigued rather than turned off like the prior 2 seasons. It has good momentum, pacing (apart from Raffi frantically talking to Siri Worf), and has even subtly corrected some of the Stewartization of Picard.
My only extremely minor quibble was the scene with Raffi's ex husband. He just somehow happened to be on the same pirate planet? It really strains credulity. Couldn't they have just had her call him on a viewscreen? Also, what's with his weird ultimatum? Can't she be a present mom/grandma and try to help Starfleet at the same time? Are moms not able to work in CIA with this logic?
Nevertheless, if the season can continue the good structure, characters, and give us some worthy story payoffs, I think we'll have a winner. Only time will tell!
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 6:42pm (UTC -5)
If the previous novels in the series were terrible, why would you buy the next one? Why must the Trek fandom repeatedly say "thank you sir, may I have another?"
Is this some variation of battered woman syndrome? Are we collectively like those trailer park women who won't press charges cause we looooooooove him?
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 7:28pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 7:32pm (UTC -5)
"If the previous novels in the series were terrible, why would you buy the next one? Why must the Trek fandom repeatedly say 'thank you sir, may I have another?'"
Seeing as this new season has a new "author" so to speak, with a good track record to boot, I'm more than willing to give this one the benefit of the doubt (thus far).
Maybe it's better to look at the overall ST franchise as an anthology of different torchbearers throughout its period with varying interests - Gene Coon, Nicholas Meyer, Leonard Nimoy, Michael Piller, Ron Moore, Ira Steven Behr, Brannon Braga, etc. We now have Terry Matalas's vision, which shouldn't necessarily be conflated with JJ Abrams or Akiva Goldsman (who did not meet expectations, to be kind). I am certainly able to keep these Picard seasons compartmentalized, just as season 3 of TOS, season 1 of TNG & DS9, season 2 of VOY, do not need to bring down the excellence of their respective other seasons. (Methinks Akiva Goldsman really traumatized people here, which is certainly understandable lol.)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 7:32pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 8:07pm (UTC -5)
>these two episodes represent the best 'trek for 20 years.
Have to disagree with you there, series 4 of Enterprise had some great episodes, far superior to what NuTrek has offered so far.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 8:18pm (UTC -5)
While yes, Season 4 of Enterprise is technically within the last 20 years, only barely.
While admittedly being on average more consistent, I'm not really taken by that season of Trek. I found it rather rote and a memberberries retread of TOS, rather than a jumping off point. I honestly think season 1 of Strange New Worlds did a better job with a similar intent and vibe.
I may be in the minority, but I much prefer season 1 & 2 of Enterprise for its novelty and attempt at doing something new (as long as you strip away a full 1/2 of those seasons' garbage episodes). Stripped down to 13 episode seasons, there's some solid stuff there.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 8:39pm (UTC -5)
Now that it seems all of this was just to reveal Worf as her Star Fleet Intelligence handler. I'd personally have rather they just skipped the big reveal and had Worf doing this investigation himself from the start (possibly with another Non-Raffi member of Star Fleet).
The Ferengi was great. Really nice job by the actor and I'm glad they didn't change the lobes too much at least.
All of the Titan/Crusher stuff was great and felt like a bit of a mashup of TOS/TNG which was probably the intention.
I'm not sure 100% made sense that Admiral Picard could suddenly take command given that he'd retired but I didn't really care since it was the best Star Trek has been in a long time. I'll give it a pass on nit-picks.
Though it's always interesting to read the nit-pickers and intellectual giants (in their own mind in some cases) comment on this stuff. It's what keeps me coming back.
hmm I'd like to go 3.5 stars but too much Raffi drags it down to a 3 for me.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 8:44pm (UTC -5)
Season 4 was the most desperate memberberry season of Trek until Lower Deck oozed onto the scene.
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 10:47pm (UTC -5)
What if they made WORF part of Section 31. I have a feeling Section 31 might ruin the legacy of our favorite Klingon. Thoughts? Starfleet intelligence and a secret handler? Sounds pretty section 31 to me tbh.
Thoughts on Worf in Section 31 or when they inevitably bring it into Picard?
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 12:07am (UTC -5)
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 12:10am (UTC -5)
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 2:01am (UTC -5)
It's very basic errors like that that make you realise the writers* don't even seem to know the basic rules of the universe (no pun intended) they've the rare privilege of writing for.
*Yes, I know Matalas has received the benefit of the doubt so far as showrunner, but he isn't the writers of this particular episode.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 2:39am (UTC -5)
Not to go too off topic here, but I agree with you in regards to the Xindi season. It seemed like Trek’s answer to Battlestar Galactica in attempting to match the same dark tones in a post 9/11 world, but it never reached further than your standard, derivative sci-fi action schlock. It’s actually my lowest rated ENT season.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 2:44am (UTC -5)
It’s standard practice for showrunners of television series to do hefty rewrites of episodes they are not credited on. (It’s their show, after all.) Regardless, anything on screen has passed the approval of the showrunner, so it’s fair game to credit (or criticize) Matalas for any and all episodes.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 2:47am (UTC -5)
Oh yes, by leaps and bounds.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 3:32am (UTC -5)
Thanks. That's what I thought. In that case, why are people insisting that Matalas is bringing back the old TNG order when he doesn't even know/doesn't care about very basic things like the correct size of the world/galaxy/universe he's responsible for?
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 3:34am (UTC -5)
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 3:45am (UTC -5)
Good catch. I can't recall it if they have.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 4:06am (UTC -5)
For a Picard episode 2, that's already above average, but with the campiness of the villain, it's absolutely possible that this turns into the same unbelievable caricature as the last 2 seasons. We shall see.
Couple points :
- Riker still my clear favorite. Frakes is playing this with such ease as if he'd stopped shooting nemesis two weeks ago. Hats off to that.
- I hate Raffi. No other way to say it. She's just horrible. Worst actress in any trek, ever. By far. And then some.
Good lord, she is SO bad. Can we please get a heroic death of that character already. So that this ever same "this is all so tragic" ONE facial expression she has is finally appropriate for one single time.
The only way I think I can endure her any longer is if they decided to write Worf as having none of her BS. Now that would be something I could get onboard with.
In the meantime, it will be up to me to yell "stfu!" at the screen. I literally had to do it. And how they keep combining the worst actress with the worst plot writing is just mind boggling. Now here's a master plan : enter some criminal warlords center of power, take some drugs and then... Improvise your way out of there. Genius.
- picard son "plot twist" : meh.
- Crusher Picard stare contest : worked surprisingly well.
- Picard finally taking command of something instead of passively having himself being yelled at : aaaah, finally. Can we still please just have a little bit of that. It's all we ever wanted.
How just imagine he'd work his way out of this with some complex diplomacy 😄😄😄 I would faint from happyness 😄😄😄
If course not gonna happen with that kurzman level mustache twirling villain we got. Ah well. Give me some more cheeky Riker moments and I will endure the BS just for that.
So, overall : still not as bad as S1 and S2. If that's an archievements. But if we talk retro scifi fun, as someone who's always been 10x more into trek than into star wars : Andor this ain't. Now *that's* an inspired take based on classic material.
Can we please kidnap that guy and have *him* imagine a continuation of the trekverse? His material strikes me as more ST than SW anyway, so maybe he wouldn't try to escape immediately.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 7:39am (UTC -5)
I agree. It's obviously got other things that date it. But speech (mostly) isn't one of them.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 7:55am (UTC -5)
Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 8:18pm (UTC -6)
"I may be in the minority, but I much prefer season 1 & 2 of Enterprise for its novelty and attempt at doing something new (as long as you strip away a full 1/2 of those seasons' garbage episodes). Stripped down to 13 episode seasons, there's some solid stuff there."
You are not alone. I love all of Enterprise. Seasons 1 & 2 get WAY too much flack.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 8:49am (UTC -5)
>This forum contains some of the harshest critics of Trek anywhere on the internet. Sometimes people forget to just enjoy stories and live in the moment.
Are you new here? Lol :)
I agree, but I also can clearly point out why this is.
Star Trek, as a series, has always possessed as its greatest strength, the fact that it points up the idea of solving problems through critical thinking in the first place. The Corbomite Maneuver has this sort of philosophy written all over it, and it was the first episode produced after the show was approved for its initial run (although not the first episode aired, by a long shot).
Consequently, Trek Fans tend towards being extremely harsh critics. It just goes with the territory.
I will echo what others here are saying, fairly good couple of eps to start here, but the material with Raffi is brought down by the actress' entirely wooden performance. Was cool to see a modern take on Ferengi makeup, and the Sneed character was well-played too, but Michelle Hurd simply doesn't have the emotive range to carry the ideas.
The Space Slum is getting tiresome too. I know the rule is "shoot the money" but for the life of me I am still wondering why they spent money on this mess of a set design. It looks terrible, and every second the show is still in it makes me wish that I wasn't looking at it. Does anyone in Star Trek ever go to the middle of a large alien city? Why is it always Earth locations or cheaply designed alien planet sets?
This is why I liked DS9. It had the balls to make things look truly alien on what is in fact a Cardassian-Designed station. This looks like they made some soundstage cleanup crew's lives a real living hell for about a week.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 10:20am (UTC -5)
1.) In Star Trek II, Khan was not an appropriate enemy because Star Trek was all about making peace and coming to mutual solutions
2.) In Star Trek III, Starfleet was portrayed an an un-Star Trek-like way as too bureaucratic and unable to fulfull a mission of exploration. The author of that proposed that the fourth movie should be about reforming Starfleet (which sounds like it would have been a terrible idea for a movie)
3.) TNG was not real Star Trek because the crew had too many meetings and Picard surrendered too much in season 1.
Yup - Star Trek fans have a long history of debating the product =)
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 10:49am (UTC -5)
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 2:47pm (UTC -5)
It took them a few hours to get from Earth to the nebula, but later they say that "help is days away"?
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 3:07pm (UTC -5)
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 3:56pm (UTC -5)
I agree with those who have difficulties mit Raffi and her plot. But I liked the charactarisation of the ferengi. I dissliked the of choped heads. I should not be neccesary for Star Trek. Warfs battle scene in itself was good.
Main plot, well, to many stubborn men not wanting to talk. Riker smiling around and a comander Hansen carrying out an inner battle.
Generally it seem as if all women having beeing around for a while have more or less psycholigical issues (menopause problem not yet solved).
The men are just proud and stupid unless they are charming and smiling (Riker).
I look forward to next episode even though I asumme that will also wnd with another cliffhanger.
Sat, Feb 25, 2023, 10:00pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Feb 26, 2023, 6:21pm (UTC -5)
Different people, different rules.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 4:20am (UTC -5)
After seeing how stubborn Shaw is about not listening to Picard, it's funny easily he caves to Picard's (..what did he called it?) 'inactive' admiral status, especially when Picard lays out all his cards to demonstrate that yes, he would indeed sacrifice the entire ship and crew for his son, which is pretty damn anthithetical to Starfleet principles-- hell, to Picard's principles. But without skipping a beat, Shaw's like "Alright, let's do this! But if we all die, this one is on you!" If it was that easy for reckless stupidity and obvious conflict-of-interests to reign unquestioned maybe Picard should have immediately commandeered the ship as soon as he got onboard for "classified reasons" and 1) spared us all the bullshit, and 2) relieved Shaw of the feeble pretense of being an annoying obstacle to everything that Picard wants to do.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 5:05am (UTC -5)
"If you want to read books that tackle profound philosophical questions, then the best — and perhaps only — place to turn these days is sci-fi. Science fiction is the last great literature of ideas."
Does Star Trek: Picard do this? Have any of the newer Trek series done this? If the answer isn't a resounding "no" then I'd like to know what ideas, which profound philosophical questions, you've gleaned from these shows.
Because when I watch them, I see things happening in outer space, I see starships moving around and characters doing things, I see villains and heroes, I see drama and action and conversations. But I don't see new ideas or philosophical questions being raised - and since that's what sci-fi has always been about for me, I don't see science fiction.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 7:14am (UTC -5)
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 10:04am (UTC -5)
>I don't see new ideas or philosophical questions being raised - and since that's what sci-fi has always been about for me...
I am the same, my favourite sci-fi episodes are those which have great philosophical value. Episodes such as Deathwish, Living Witness, Tuvix, In The Pale Moonlight, Tapestry, Mirror Mirror, The Enemy Within, and Children of Time. The show Sliders was pretty good for new ideas (For the first 2 or 3 series at least).
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 10:31am (UTC -5)
These latest ships are way too blocky and overdesigned for my taste.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 11:20am (UTC -5)
I mean congratulations to those who can turn off their brains enough to enjoy this stuff, but if I have to do that, I am NOT enjoying it. Somethings I can, if they establish themselves as goofy dumb fun out of the gate, and are very much aware of that, then I can enjoy it for being what it is. Heck, I think I still end up analyzing those works vis a vis their effectiveness at being what they are and what they say about the world, so even then my brain isn't totally shut off.
But new Star Trek? It THINKS it's smart, and clever, and intelligent and RELEVANT. But it so fucking isn't. It's a know nothing KNOW IT ALL show. It's far dumber than it thinks it is, consistently. So no, I am absolutely unable to shut my brain off and not critisize it because it darn well invites me to by trying to make people think, but then fuckin' up it's ideas.
Oh, but at least there's callbacks and references front and center. Yawn.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 11:42am (UTC -5)
"I gotta say, I really do miss the days when I felt at times Star Trek was smarter, more intelligent than me."
Great post Nolan.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 2:30pm (UTC -5)
'But new Star Trek? It THINKS it's smart, and clever, and intelligent and RELEVANT. But it so fucking isn't. It's a know nothing KNOW IT ALL show. It's far dumber than it thinks it is, consistently.'
Completely agree. There's an off-putting arrogance to NuTrek. It and its cheerleaders persistently demand unearned kudos and fealty. Classic Trek was intelligent, modest and self-effacing. NuTrek is a brash, tedious idiot that's been told it's the greatest genius ever just to shut it up. Narcissistic NuTrek thoroughly believes its own hype and insists that you say you believe it, too, or you're (gasp) a 'hater'.
I wish NuTrek would put half the effort it expends on admiring itself in the mirror into creating even half-decent stories.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 4:46pm (UTC -5)
What am I watching?
Not even the lamest, most dunderheaded episode of Enterprise would have inadvertently written its main characters as this stupid, unless their odd behavior or forgetfulness was a plot point. Janeway or Archer or Trip being an asshole and having kneejerk reactions to situations is one thing, something that plenty of fans including myself criticized. But to watch a tense action scene shot in real time where Picard and Riker activate transport inhibitors, explaining their function to the person they're protecting as they do so, then 2 minutes later wonder why they can't be beamed up and have to have the guest character explain it back to them? This is off the charts. It's absolutely incredible to watch an episode where someone *throws a starship at another starship* (in a scene played entirely seriously rather than as goofy Orville- or Lower Decks-style comedy) and yet that ISN'T the stupidest scene in the episode.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 4:48pm (UTC -5)
I'd love to check out a "worst episode" bracket that y'all vote on, to see how the Nu vs old stacks up. Maybe Jammer can host that one day, haha! Star Trek episode March Madness! How do episodes/seasons of Picard, Discovery, etc. stack up against the objectively bad content from the OG shows? It's all subjective, but I wonder. Would I really watch Spock's Brain again over SZN 1 and 2 of Picard? Probably, lol? Is that nostalgia, or is it something else at play there?
Is it the honesty? Wasn't Spock's Brain a notoriously bad episode, even coming from the producers/actors' mouths? I can't imagine Stewart or anyone involved saying "we missed the mark on this" today.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 5:39pm (UTC -5)
MSM and most viewers would no doubt hate it :)
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 5:49pm (UTC -5)
NuTrek has no specter of cancellation over it, budget concerns are a non-issue, and the showrunners have carte blanche.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 6:02pm (UTC -5)
"Is it the honesty? Wasn't Spock's Brain a notoriously bad episode, even coming from the producers/actors' mouths? I can't imagine Stewart or anyone involved saying "we missed the mark on this" today."
Read "The 50 Year Mission" which is a book of after the fact reflective interviews detailing the oral history of Trek from the creation of TOS all the way to the then about to be released Star trek: Beyond. There is a distinct difference between how the creators discussed the earlier eras with frankness and hindsight versus how J.J. Trek was discussed, sounding like a promo, puff-piece that was all about rationals, excuses and defences from all sides about how the first two new films were percieved. Those last few chapters of that book were a slog to get through because it was just all shallow ego. The more this era of Trek drags on, the more I think Admiral Clancy's "Sheer F¥€%ing hubris" line was the writers unknowingly projecting their inadequaces onto their audience.
There is certainly a feel every new season of the writer's saying, "we can do no wrong," while simultaniously trying to rewrite history by disregarding and downplaying their comments from the last unsuccessful season's press junket run. Like when Picard Season 1 launched and how the line was veheminantly that "this is NOT going to be a TNG reunion show" the the cast announcement for S3 hit and the new line was "We were always building to this, we just had to establish the shiw firat." Friggin' WHAT? And they wonder why we don't trust them or their "talents" they've been bullshitting from Day One. They don't have a good chunk of the audience's trust anymore, and for that reason alone should they have been let go.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 11:03pm (UTC -5)
Thank you for the belly laugh this reference gave me. :D
"Because that is SOOO Beverly's TNG character.."
Yep. There really better be a very good explanation for this "twist" because it's completely out of character for both of them.
Out of character for both to have a casual hookup after their history together. Out of character for both to neglect something as basic as birth control. Out of character for any of the TNG crew to ghost their closest friends when working through a trauma. Beverly didn't just cut off Picard but also the rest? Not one person from the 1,000+ crew of the Enterprise-D remains in contact with her? Including her medical staff?
@ The Queen "A lot of people still don't seem to understand, or want to accept, that this series is basically a book in ten chapters every season."
Well, I prefer episodic entertainment with continuity (e.g., The Orville and Strange New Worlds) but my issue here isn't serialization but is instead how Discovery and Picard (so far) use it. Lots of fluff, wasted screen time, silly twists that seem to exist to drive social media engagement, and nearly every episode ends with a faux-cliffhanger quickly wrapped up in the opening scene of the following episode.
It's almost as though they don't trust the audience to come back.
At least when Discovery did it they had the excuse of a new show, not sure people will accept it, etc., but why does Picard do it? You've got Sir Patrick Stewart and now the entire TNG cast. You don't trust the audience to come back without a cliffhanger? :(
@ Peter G. "Those types don't get off on watching top dog type men get lots of women. What makes Riker appealing, rather, is his vulnerability, that he cares so much about things, and that he gives a warmth and human charm to every scene he's in."
@ Jason R. "This is just me but as a teen watching TOS and TNG I never cared much about Riker or Kirk. Spock was the one I admired and wanted to be most like, followed by Picard."
I related to Riker as both a teenager and a young adult. Two scenes of his that have stuck with me throughout the years:
1. The Ten Forward scene in Best of Both Worlds with Troi, where he's trying to figure out why he is so hesitant to move on and accept his own command.
2. The scene in his quarters in Chain of Command, where him and Jellico drop ranks.
I remained at a non-profit I loved for eight years, making a third the wage I could get in the private sector, and every time someone gave me grief about it I recalled that scene from Best of Both Worlds.
The second scene, well, over the course of my adult life I've worked for more than one Captain Jellico. To quote Riker, "You are arrogant and closed-minded. You need to control everything and everyone. You don't provide an atmosphere of trust, and you don't inspire these people to go out of their way for you. You've get everybody wound up so tight there's no joy in anything."
@ Peter G. "My conclusion is that it seems far-fetched at best to presume that Riker was on TNG to appeal to teenage male fantasies"
Troi in her original costume was there for this. It's one of the few parts of TNG that I don't feel has aged well.
I viewed Riker as a womanizer, certainly not like Kirk. Today he'd be called sex positive but I don't believe that was a mainstream term during TNG's TV run.
My thoughts about Picard so far: About meeting expectations but those expectations were not high to begin with. I'm not as unhappy with seasons 1 and 2 as some, but they definitely left a lot on the table, and I'd expected better.
Still, I'll be happy here if they write a good ending for the TNG cast. Nemesis left it on the cutting room floor. If we get something half as good as Star Trek VI I'll be happy, if it equals or exceeds that, I'll be ecstatic.
Concur with Jammer's 3-star review of the first two episodes to date, for me, mostly because the Riker and Picard interactions are so damned good.
Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 11:11pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:31am (UTC -5)
Here the clip
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 8:22am (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 9:09am (UTC -5)
What I am saying here is that just because an actress is hot doesn't mean her presence makes men more likely to watch.
I realize saying this is flying in the face of all conventional wisdom but I stand by it. At least in reference to the sci-fi genre.
I have just never seen an iota of evidence to support it and it flies in the face of my own experience. It's like that stupid canard about how men think about sex 1,800,000 times a second or whatever.
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 9:14am (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 9:19am (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 9:46am (UTC -5)
'Dax too was interesting as a character, even though they used the model turned actor Terry Farrell for that role. Somewhat disappointing.'
No idea why you were disappointed. Terry Farrell was great as Jadzia - intelligent, though, funny, twinkle in the eye, mischievous, good fun. I genuinely cannot imagine anyone else in that role and when they did push Farrell out she was replaced by (in my opinion) an objectively much weaker actress. But then I've always been someone who could never fathom the Farrell-is-wooden narrative that some like to push. I though she was absolutely brilliant.
(Also: well done on derailing yet another thread; at least you managed to keep it to Trek this time. Haha!)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 10:02am (UTC -5)
Terry is a comitent actress, but if you want to see where she really stands what "Relioned". She was COMPLETELY upstaged by Susanna Thompson.
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 11:16am (UTC -5)
Haters without lives saying a bolt out of place isn't "real Trek"? Check!
Shills without lives saying the above haters aren't "real fans"? Check!
Banal political asides that draw out the forum's "I can paste more cites than you" faction? Check!
And do I still love every one of you? Check, of course!
As for Picard? Way too early to fist-pound in either direction, but the meta-narrative is spicy! It is shocking that nearly the entire bloc of Youtube rage-tube enthusiasts have: 1) have seen all of Picard Season 3; and 2) decided to give it a chance after all but crucifying previous seasons. Are #1 and #2 related? We can't be sure until Season 3 is over, but listening to their analysis isn't helpful. They spend more time congratulating themselves on "seeing Season 3 already" than they do actually talking about the show itself. Perhaps Paramount has wisely made the influencers members of a club that doesn't include their viewers?
Let's play what-if, realizing the usual limits of such. What if Picard S3 produces the same popular response as S1 and S2? Paramount will have learned one lesson from near-experimental control: giving rage-tubers early access mutes their criticism ENTIRELY. Will the rage-tuber fanbase conclude that their opinion leaders were basically bought off? These rage-tuber audiences are fickle, but it doesn't appear there are any opposing voices remaining that would benefit from a later "I told you from day one!" exclamation. Certainly, some are remaining silent.
In any event, I'm here for it!
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 11:31am (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 11:36am (UTC -5)
She was outstanding.
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 11:38am (UTC -5)
'Terry is a comitent actress, but if you want to see where she really stands what "Relioned". She was COMPLETELY upstaged by Susanna Thompson.'
I actually agree with this. Off the top of my head, 'Meridian' is another episode in which Farrell clearly falters too. There are probably a couple of others. But I see these as anomalies, rather than representative of Farrell as a supposedly inveterately wooden actress.
Nana Visitor and Avery Brooks were also (for me) notorious scenery-chewers now and again but I never felt these outlying odditiea detracted from the overall very high quality of their performances.
Digression over. Back to NuTrek.
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 11:40am (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 12:14pm (UTC -5)
Hello y'all, it's good to be back. I am really surprised by the prevailingly negative comments here as I thouroughly enjoyed the first two episodes thus far, and this is coming from someone who was very vocal about the absolute garbage that came before this to the point where I downright refused to watch a minute of season two. My disillusionment with modern Trek had me ready to let this season pass as well, but after hearing a lot of positive reviews from people who had early access to season three and who had been very critical of the earlier seasons and DISCO, I decided to give this one a shot and so far I am very glad I did.
Is it perfect? Of course not. As many of you have noted, some of the dialogue feels very out of place (most notably LaForge's comment about the Vadic's ship) and I could really dispense with all the Raffi drama, but by God, for the first time in years, decades even, I feel like I am watching actual Star Trek. For the first time since this thing started, I actually feel like I am, yet again, watching Jean-Luc Picard instead of Patrick Stewart playing himself. The chemistry he has with Riker is great and the way Frakes is playing him is in a league of its own.
Worf's entrance was really out of this world. I had to replay it multiple times and I am about do to it again after I write this review. The exchange between Picard and Beverly was just beautiful and for the first time this show actually managed to get a message across without beating you over the head with it.
I'm still on the fence about captain Shaw, but if he gets more substance as the show progresses, and the final scenes of episode two certainly point in that direction, he could turn out to be a good fit for our company here.
At this point, after the garbage we've been seeing since Discovery's premiere in 2017, I really don't need Star Trek to be a literary masterpiece. I just want it to feel like Star Trek again and not butcher any of its legacy and characters. And so far, that's exactly what I'm getting from this, and according to the people (whom I've grown to trust) who've seen the entire season, it's only getting better. So here's to a, hopefully, satisfying send-off to our beloved friends which can help us forget that the first two seasons ever saw the light of day!
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 4:21pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:10pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:12pm (UTC -5)
When I transplant Diana Mulder's Pulaski into Seasons 3-7 in place of Gates McFadden's Crusher in some alternate reality I am quite certain she'd be a close third on the totem poll of beloved characters ahead of Riker and Worf.
It would have been like taking a World Series Winning team and just tossing in 40 hone run 300 hitter in place of dead weight. It would have made a great series even better.
But dummy fans got all butt hurt about some mean things she said about Data in one episode and preferred their Crusher oatmeal on white toast. The rest is history
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:25pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 6:43pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 7:07am (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 10:20am (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 10:25am (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 12:18pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 12:53pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 1:40pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 5:29pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 11:31pm (UTC -5)
Pulaski was trash. She was a gender swapped, broke man's bootleg Bones. And none of her schtick worked with Data the way Bones did with Spock.
The hatred she receives from the fandom is fully justified and is NOT because of some gender based double standard as some have suggested elsewhere. It was because Spock gave as good as he got with Bones. Their banter was hilarious. Meanwhile Pulaski literally just picks on Data for no reason and he just stands there completely oblivious to the subtext.
Good actress. Loved her on LA Law where she was the wicked witch of the west. In TNG her character was hot garbage.
Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 12:51am (UTC -5)
As soon as he was gone, they brought her back, and rightfully so.
Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 2:53pm (UTC -5)
This episode did have a lot of pros in my view. For starters, Admiral Picard actually felt like Jean Luc Picard of old. Finally! Riker also felt like good old Riker and as if no time had passed at all between the last TNG film.
The moment between Beverly and Jean Luc was brilliant. The acting with silence and touching music, I must say that I felt finally THAT was Star Trek. Subtlety and grace rather than the "nu Trek" pew pew lense flare.
The ship's Captain still doesn't seem quite right in the way he behaves. Whilst I was happy that he at least came around at the end of the episode, the way he behaves is just unacceptable for a Starfleet Captain and a 25th century human with "evolved sensibilities". I quite liked Geordi's daughters remark about the science between how something happened. BUT the line about the enemy ship and the language was appalling and yet again takes you out of it. Starfleet does not use such profanities and it's extremely un Star Trek like.
The lighting is still way too dark and I agree with others that I do not understand why the Starfleet vessel cannot be lit up like virtually all other ships of the era. Being on Red Alert is one thing (e.g. the Voyager bridge lights went into "Dark mode" during such occasions), and certain rooms like the Observation Deck or Ten Forward equivalent is one thing, but the complete pitch black decor throughout the entire ship and lack of light anywhere constantly seems more like a Klingon vessel than a Federation Starship. Especially if this is supposedly an exploratory vessel. I'm half expecting officers needing to use torches just to see what they are doing. Or that they'd never be able to tell if "Main power was offline" since there would be no difference in the ambience in terms of light.
Good point by someone above how the Ship got here pretty quickly all the way from Earth, and yet help is "days away". And I do not get as to why the Captain didn't follow Seven's advice to immediately turn back to Federation space once they rescued those in distress. Then the guy complains afterward that they are trapped. What a buffoon. I liked her line about Hero who saved Heroes. But the difficulty for Shaw should have focused from the very start about risking the lives of the entire ship and connected to some past incident explicitly rather than his bizarre and appalling abrasive attitude from episode one. Seven herself - like the last episode - also doesn't come across as Seven either and her use of language at times yet again isn't very 24/25th century like.
I guess Picard did tap that then and was with Beverly for some time. The gentleman being Picard's son seems a good idea to me. Though I'd prefer him to have a more Jean Luc British accent than what he has (unrefined). The way he escaped should have been more explained however. Otherwise, it makes security force fields seem trivial if they are that easily bypassed. Even one line about it being some modified medical device that he had been allowed to keep on medical grounds (having been searched before) and registered as normal that he then used to "resuscitate" the electronics of the Brig to buy that two seconds to walk out. Or something.
Not sure if this is the Conspiracy alien route, or some Romulan/Reman plot or whether they are just going to build things up and then let us down. Hope this is vastly different to other Picard seasons and more like TNG/TNG movies. I must say I wish they would bring Data back to life permanently. They could have even used Q last time to do that. Take them within seconds of Data destroying the Scimitar and beam him out in time.
I agree that the Blade Runner planet is really not a great location. Doesn't look very good and I sincerely hope it is outside of Federation space. Since it doesn't match a Federation planet's values at all. Raffi just seems unrelated to the plot. Though if you take this Season 3 as completely separate and enjoy it by itself (without the other two seasons), it sort of makes for an interesting spy angle. IF it relates to a wider plot. But it really needs to pull that off in some type of 24/POI/Batman Begins type storytelling and I do not think sadly the writers have thus far demonstrated that type of talent. I do concur with above that the old Star Trek writers or real talent may not be allowed near the franchises for studio/committee reasons rather than common sense.
I thought the Ferengi was all right, but Raffi's story to him was stupid. WORF's entrance was great. That was good to see. I think him being her handler was expected. However, I would have thought by this point in time Worf would either be the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire, Emperor of the Klingon Empire, Head of Starfleet Intelligence or sipping Prune Juice whilst vacationing on Risa taking a break from his successful career as a private Security Consultant.
Not sure how Deanna will fit into all this. (Does she need some time away from Riker because he spent a bit too much time with the "Goddess of Empathy"?) Or the other characters from the initial trailer like Geordi and Lore.
I will say that Jean Luc finally felt like Jean Luc again. But it makes me wonder if the writers have also had to thread together a path from the nonsense of Seasons 1 and 2 to get here and whether that is another limitation. E.g. silly things like the new body, Laris instead of Beverly, etc. Perhaps a cleaner break at the start of Episode 1 would have been better. Just have him actually be single, and actually involved in inspecting the Enterprise E after a refit. I am not sure as to why on Earth the Beverly we knew from the TNG movies would suddenly disappear completely from her closest family/friends. I was under the impression she became Head of Starfleet Medical. Even if she had sought a life of doing missions of mercy around the galaxy, is it really likely she'd have broken off contact with the entire TNG crew - and by that I mean not just the Bridge crew, but even her former Medical staff, colleagues etc??
Also, maybe it is just me, but don't most of the Starfleet personnel on the ship (except at the Helm), seem a bit.. old? Like there doesn't appear to be anyone that young aboard. They all seem a bit old and (with all due respect), fat. Compare that to the crews who staffed the (old and new) Enterprises, or Excelsior or Voyager.
I completely agree with that comment about "new Star Trek". It has basically forgotten what Star Trek was. Gene's vision about an optimistic humanity. And things need to actually fit the flow of the shows/movies which they are not. I.e. who the characters were at the end of the TNG movies. Lines from First Contact about humanity becoming better and having an evolved sensibility. Even the old lines from films like "The Voyage Home" which state that humans stopped using such profanities.
Thank you. I could not stop laughing and agreeing with the comment about that lunatic lady Admiral who told Picard to "stfu". The way this "nu Trek" is going, perhaps that is the way people talk to each other on the Bridge as well. Or imagine a conversation after hailing a ship!
"The Garret is hailing us Captain."
"Excellent. Put it on screen."
"Admiral Dalia! To what does the Defiant owe this plea.."
"Shut the f**k up Captain! The sheer hubris of responding to a f**king SOS call! Who the f**k do you think you are! You just dutied your way out of a career!"
I hope from what I am hearing above about the reviewers saying this Picard Season 3 gets really good, that that is indeed the case.
I also agree with someone's comment above that the CGI in this show doesn't look that great when it comes to the Starships - take the "battle" at the end when they soar away. Surely they have the budget or technology to replicate what we saw in First Contact/Nemesis style quality when it comes to the effects of the ships? I wasn't sure also how they didn't show the Titan - which had shields up - having its shield (usually represented by a bluish colour) hit by the large object and buckling to cause damage rather than the 2009 style "explosions" just for the sake of it.
Here's hoping there is a plan for this show. For a change!
* Also I completely concur with two comments above about ANDOR. Now THAT is Star Wars. Like Rogue One it respects George Lucas' saga and tells a cohesive, gripping and wonderful story with superb acting, writing, cinematography and music.
Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 8:22pm (UTC -5)
Picard actually feels like Picard, and not a tired, sad, old man overwhelmed by the world.
The plot isn’t anything special, but it moves along at a brisk pace and makes logical sense, two things season 2 utterly failed at.
I’m also enjoying Shaw as an antagonist, more so than Vadic at any rate, and the loathsome Ferengi was a nice touch.
I even has to restrain myself from watching the next episode, something which has never, ever happened with NuTrek.
Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 4:11pm (UTC -5)
The apocalyptic theme (recruitment center being destroyed), the doomday villain, the giant guillotine warship, the mysterious intrigues of organizations within organizations... it's like NuTrek can't come up with anything different. It's always the same tropes.
Sat, Mar 4, 2023, 10:24pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Mar 5, 2023, 9:39pm (UTC -5)
I am however annoyed to see some other folks (looking at you, Jax) with nothing better to do, throwing their masturbatory complaints out there in hopes that someone will respond. Yea, everything sucks and we should clone Gene and go back to the glory days and Make Trek Great Again. Guess what, we heard you the 10,032nd time you said the same stuff. Shut up already. Get a life.
Sun, Mar 5, 2023, 9:43pm (UTC -5)
Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 10:32pm (UTC -5)
Well why the hell didnt you do that earlier instead of letting Jelico Junior order you around?
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 10:25am (UTC -5)
I waited five episodes in and saw mostly good/improved reviews for Picard S3, so I decided to give it a shot.
The pacing and story development are world's better thus far. Notably, the plot of saving Jack Crusher is so far much stronger than the "higher" stakes storyline of terrorists with world-ended tech they stole and only the horribly self-involved Raffi character can save the world! Writers take note. I'm curious how they will bring these together, and I'm hoping it's not something really dumb.
Elnor, Rios, and Jurati are gone. Don't know or care where they went. Addition by subtraction. Wish I could say the same for Raffi, but 3 out of 4 ain't bad.
I like Shaw. He's a prick, but a believable one that clearly has his own story and personality that we don't know the details of yet.
Yes, there are plot holes and dumb lines, and even characters that are just plain grating. The dialog is weak in places. But objectively comparing this episode to a random episode of TNG or DS9? Same as it ever was. This doesn't beat out the best Trek of yesteryear. But it's passable, and that is a lot more than anything from Disco can say, and that's all I ever really wanted.
I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going. I think the analysis some have given that they are basically making a long 8-part action movie with TNG characters is a fair assessment, but I'll take it if it means that they finally get a proper sendoff. I'd prefer a bit more philosophy, but I'm two episodes in and it might yet be coming. I'd love a Worf spinoff. If Raffi is the price I'd have to pay, so be it.
Further quibbles: Enough with the dim lighting. It's a "goddamn" miracle that no bridge officer has seriously injured themselves from tripping over a floor they can't see.
Mon, Mar 27, 2023, 6:07pm (UTC -5)
Also, what's with the "there are 500 guns pointing at us and we are dead the moment that we take off," and then they take off and by gosh it's all OK?
Largely retrieved by Worf's entrance, though. OK it was Clint Barton but I don't care. Just fabulous. Also, continued high points for the Picard/Riker rapport. I must admit that when I first saw TNG, way back when, I did not think that Riker would become such an interesting character. He seemed, you know, so bland. But he has greatly improved with age.
Mon, Mar 27, 2023, 8:39pm (UTC -5)
That, or maybe Johnathan Frakes as himself just happens to be a more interesting character than Riker?
Wed, Apr 26, 2023, 9:48am (UTC -5)
Last week's episode was okay, but I was disappointed by this one (perhaps merely because the reviews were positive).
Vadic is written and acted like a classic cliched cardboard villain. Boooooooring. Even Seska on voyager was more interesting to watch. She may become more interesting later, but it's a pretty bad start. And why does she give them an hour to decide rather than a minute? Pretty convenient.
Like many of you, I saw the "reveal" about Jack Crusher coming miles ahead even though it makes zero (0) sense given the characters involved. Jean-Luc would never have unprotected sex with Beverly unless he WANTED children (and yes, accidents happen but you'd think contraception would be even more effective in the 24th century than it is now), and Beverly would never hide her pregnancy from him. She practically FORCED him to become Wesley's surrogate father! It's okay for characters to have evolved after 20 years, but not "de-evolved" (wink wink).
And yeah, the writers seem to have felt the need to make a Shaw a total dick so that we take Picard's side, because otherwise he makes some pretty valid points.
I know some TNG writers complained at the time about the difficulties writing within Gene's constraints of a better future with "perfect" characters, and those constraints were perhaps a bit harsh. But they also ensured a consistent universe and forced the writers to come up with original stories and characters within that framework instead of relying on decades-old worn-out tropes like they do on NuTrek.
I would have found this episode much more interesting and original if 1) Jack Crusher WASN'T Picard's son and/or 2) They DID surrender him to Vadic to protect the crew, and then had to face their feelings of guilt at doing so.
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