Jammer's Review

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

"In the Hands of the Prophets"

***1/2

Air date: 6/21/1993
Written by Robert Hewitt Wolfe
Directed by David Livingston

Review by Jamahl Epsicokhan

And so the first season comes to a close, showing exactly the direction DS9 intends to take where the major issues are concerned: Bajor and its politics and philosophies. "In the Hands of the Prophets" explores what happens when Federation secular teachings and Bajoran religion collide.

Bajoran Vedek Winn (Louise Fletcher) publicly denounces the classroom teachings of Keiko O'Brien's school. The result is a sudden rift between the Bajoran and Federation peoples, undermining everything Sisko hopes to accomplish. As with the best philosophy-oriented shows, this season-ender brings a great deal of probing substance to its plotting. Scenes like the one where Sisko fairly explains the meanings and intentions of Winn and her followers to his son are what really makes these events and attitudes believable. This is not simple by any stretch of the imagination, and by not reducing any of the characters to single dimensions, the script does a superb job of handling its premise.

Sisko attempts to seek help from another Bajoran religious establishment, introducing the character of Vedek Bareil (Philip Anglim), who cannot immediately offer help. ("It seems the Prophets also teach you politics," Sisko remarks very correctly.) Meanwhile, a subplot involving the mysterious death of one of O'Brien's engineering staff opens up hints of a conspiracy, which ties in beautifully with the main story. The bombing of Keiko's school complicates matters, and is enough to convince Bareil to come to the station to offer his religious perspectives on the matter.

There's a lot of plot here, and pretty much all of it works when it comes together, tying Winn in cahoots with O'Brien's Bajoran engineering assistant Neela (Robin Christopher) and revealing their intentions to assassinate Bareil—Winn's opposing candidate. The episode sports standout performances from everybody, but especially from Avery Brooks who plays Sisko with a commendable passion for his mission. The ending displays the understanding that the Bajorans and Federation have come to in the past six months, but it's easy to see there's much more to come in terms of political intrigue next season.

Previous episode: Duet
Next episode: The Homecoming

Season Index

37 comments on this review

Joe Ford - Fri, Sep 21, 2007 - 6:19pm (USA Central)
Oh how I miss Deep Space Nine

Whilst I feel the first season was hit and miss when it came to episode quality the sheer size and scope of this universe and the potential for storytelling was phenomenal. From the opening moments of Emissary suddenly Star Trek was up close and personal and it was clear that this was a series that was a quantum leap away from Star Trek TNG.

Whilst Sisko, Dax and Bashir took a little while to mature and grown on me the alien characters were instantly fascinating. I can remember watching Emissary aged twelve and I felt as if I had been absorbed into a new world of political conspiracies, alien shapshifters, scarred worlds and aching sadness. It was eye opening.

So how does series one fare? Emissary is a big bold opener with lots of great ideas that would be built upon in late seasons, it is easily my favourite opening episode of any Trek series.

Past Prologue continues the trend, political wranglings and tortured Kira making for especially good viewing with Garak as added fun.

A Man Alone is the first dud but it still contains some gems of scenes, I feel a sense of uneasiness here of a show trying new things and uncertain how to get it right.

Babel is ridiculously entertaining for such a barmy premise. I really enjoy the Quark/Odo banter here and the two of them working together at the climax works a treat.

Captive Pursuit confirms it was a big triumph bringing over Colm Meaning from TNG and giving him more screen time. He emotes everybody else off the screen and provides this action episode with real heart.

DS9 works less well when it is trying to be TNG, a trick they soon learnt to forget (of which Voyager should have taken note!) and Q-Less is an exmaple of an episode with some comedy nuggets but little else to reccomend. Q's mockery of Bashir and Quark though is brilliant.

Dax is DS9's first courtroom drama and I find it far more interesting than any of the others they attempted. Farrell gives a lovely, sensitive performance and the writing is crisp and the Bajoran arbiter a delight. Another success.

I really enjoyed The Passenger on my first viewing but now enjoy it less and less. Siddig's performance as the villain is frankly an embarrassment (and it is rare to say that in DS9) and although the episode contains some nice dark moments I think this is a feeble attempt at horror compared to late efforts (Darkness and the Light)

Move Along Home is essentially a harmless episode with some nice visuals but it cheats at the end like the Voyager reset and for once Quark is actually quite annoying.

The Nagus was the first of many wonderful Ferengi episodes. I have been visiting Jammer's website for years and years and I think the only real disagreement I have with his DS9 reviews is the Ferengi episodes. The strike me as good old fashioned British humour, well scripted and performed. I just love the extended Ferengi family and they inadvertently end bringing that sense of warmness and family to DS9 that was absent on both TNG and Voyager despite many relations showing up.

Vortex allows the ever wonderful Rene Auberjonois to shine. Odo's story was probably the most interesting of all the regulars and his path to discover his people starts here. His little confession to the locket is lovely.

Battle Lines is one of my favourites this year, a really meaty episode with some striking performances. Kira's character growth brings me to tears in places and the cruel fate of Kai Opaka proves this is a series that plays by its own rules.

Bashir and O'Brien is one of the great Star Trek pairings so why is The Storyteller such a chore to watch? Their chemistry is not quite there yet and the story itself is a bit predictable.

Progress is one of the wonderful 'little' stories DS9 excels at every now and again. Whilst there is a larger story playing out the focus here is the intimate relationship between Mullibok and Kira. The 'great ugly tree' always gets a laugh from me and the finale is astonishingly understated and emotional.

From the sublime to the ridiculous, If Wishes Were Horses is a silly idea that is treated immaturely. The actors play the comedy well but this feels like a waste of an hour.

The Forsaken is very enjoyable. Three plots, farce, tragedy and SF and all work well. Mrs Troi has never been a favourite of mine (although she did send up some TNG characters wonderfully on the odd occasion) but her relationship with Odo is surprisingly sweet and watchable.

Dramatis Personae is my least favourite episode this year. It just feels WRONG. Kira is a ridiculous bully, Sisko the plotter, O'Brien the agressor...its a TNG episode that refuses to work on DS9. Lousy episode.

Duet was and is possibly the finest DS9 (and Trek) episode ever filmed. Proving the old adage that all you need is two good actors and a great script and you can produce magic, this proves the dramatic weight of focussing on the Bajoran/Cardassian war better than any other episode. It keeps you guessing throughout and ends on a dramatic high. Amazing.

In the Hands of the Prophets is the climax the series needed with some powerful dialogue and useful wrapping up of themes running through the episode. There is a lovely feeling of moving on to new pastures that is essential to keep interest in the show. Its also an intruiging mystery with a beautifully shot action climax.

Season One of Deep Space Nine, flawed but fascinating and full of possibilities...
Dab Brill - Tue, Oct 23, 2007 - 1:19pm (USA Central)
I watched the first season of DS9 a year and a half ago. I loved Emmisary and some of the other eps in this season, but In the Hands of the Prophets was the episode that made me a diehard fan. After that, I was totally hooked.
Graham Pilato - Mon, Oct 29, 2007 - 4:24pm (USA Central)
I agree with Joe Ford, Jammer, about the Ferengi episodes... not all, but several, I think are much more underrated than they should be. There is (or... was... it's nearly 15 years on now from this season...) a big fan following for those characters, but the greatness of the DS9 Ferengi world-building and world-deepening comes from the first season, and that was the main reason I fell for DS9 in its first year back in 1993. It was a much bigger and better developed world, a hundred times deeper than anything that was established in Star Trek up to this point, with the possible exception of the Klingons on TNG. Four DS9 Ferengi episodes in particular, I think, are just horribly underrated: The Nagus, Rules of Acquisition, Family Business, and Body Parts. A great Ferengi episode per season in the first four years of the show. Each of these episodes deepens things tremendously and, while maybe not a huge collection of big laughs, they're utterly true to the established characters and well played out. I cared more about Rom and Quark through the first five years of the show than just about any other character besides Odo and Kira.

It's the aliens who get well developed in sci-fi.

That was a key difference, of course, in DS9, that so many non-Federation, weird and unscrupulous people were about, with totally different cultures of their own that persisted for longer than one or two episodes of sterile, clinical investigation on the bland Enterprise or Voyager.

Of course, In the Hands of the Prophets then pulled all the political tension together so nicely, that a brilliant second season would succeed this hesitant, uncertain first. I think
Jayson - Wed, Feb 13, 2008 - 6:28pm (USA Central)
Well, I’ve never really gone though the series or any of the seasons episode and reviewed them but Joe Ford has inspired me so here are my mini reviews.

Emissary - Out of every Star Trek series to date this episode is the best introduction of the world and the people who live in it. Ironically enough for me this episode has only gotten better over the years because of how it evolved over the course of seven years. Who knows, maybe the prophets had something do with it. I suppose for me the interesting thing to watch is the first time we meet Nog as a thief and considering where he ends up its a lot of fun to watch.

Past Prologue - There isn’t much to say about this episode except that it does mark the first appearance of Andrew J. Robinson AKA our favorite plain and simple tailor. Though I have to admit Garak is a much better character in the episode “Cardasians”. Btw, is it just me or does Garak seem to be hitting on Dr. Bashir from the get go, I leave it to others to think what you will of that.

A Man Alone - Like “Past Prologue” there isn’t a lot here but I did like the idea of creating a clone of your self only to murder it with the intention of framing someone, color me naïve but it struck me as pretty clever. Now, my main quibble with this episode is we don’t get a final scene when Ibundan’s clone (presumably) fully matures. I always thought there should have been scene between Odo and the clone where the clone doesn’t know who Odo.

Babel - Now I thought this was a really fun and original episode & I have to say this is the first episode that Kira as a character really worked for me. Also, there is great scene when Quark has to transport Odo off the station and just as Quark is transporting Odo he quickly reveals how only ever “watched” a transporter being used. Now given Quark is Quark I imagine he knew how to use a transporter but he just getting at Odo, just one of great jabs to come.

Captive Pursuit - This was the first of many great O’Brien episodes. I’m hard pressed to think of any other Starfleet officers that break all the rules and make it feel more convincing than contrived. Though I do wish we had met Tosk again later in the series maybe on the run from the Jem’Hadar but alas we never did.

Q-Less - Much to my surprise this was a bit of let down considering how entertaining Q can be but given all his appearances on VOY maybe Q was really a TNG thing that just didn’t translate well beyond the Enterprise D. But that’s not say Q doesn’t get in a few good ones like when Sisko hits him in a boxing match “Picard never hit me” “I’m not Picard” or when makes Bashir very tired and as he staggers away “Go sleep with your self for a change”

Dax - I can’t really say why but this wasn’t a particularly interesting episode and I’ll just leave it at that.

The Passenger - Ok, I’ll say it right off the bat, this episode is only ever going to be remember for Alexander Siddig’s almost comical over the top portrayal as a villain. Lets all be grateful he never attempted that again.
Move Along Home - I thought this was pretty fun and over all cool episode. The first thing I thought of when its revealed that the crew are actually and laterally “pawns” in this game were human beings used as a chess pieces which always makes me laugh. Also, this episode ends with a great line “Its only a game” which I suppose is good advice any time you start taking something too seriously.

The Nagus - Ah, the first of many really good Ferengi episodes and who better to play the head of The Ferengi alliance than Wallace Shaw, just about every line from him is comic gold. But beyond that this episode I think finally makes the Ferengi very real and the representation of something humanity in the 24th century has evolved out of.

Vortex - If there is only one reason this episode doesn’t work for me is because I don’t think the clues of Odo, his people and origins are nearly as tantalizing but to be fair I don’t really think the writers knew where they were going with that story line. In hind sight I wish Odo’s changeling key had made another appearance.

Battle Lines - I have to say this is another good episode for Kira (they keep getting better) because this is where she finally starts facing those demons and begins to evolve into the character we would all come to know and love. Now, again like other forgotten story threads I wish Kai Opaka would have brought back other than in visions or just a passing mention.

The Storyteller - I have to agree with Joe Ford in that this episode is hard to watch because Bashir and Obrien haven’t become friends yet and their friendship is a hi-light of DS9. That being said I liked the idea of belief being a very literal and powerful weapon against something hostile.

Progress - Now, here is the first really big Kira centric episode of the season and I think it works well but not nearly as well as “Duet”. Kira in this episode seems to be thinking things over rather facing them head on.

If Wishes Were Horses - Of all the fun light-weight episodes this season this one is only second to “Dramatis Persona” I think I like this episode mainly because the idea of powerful non-corporeal aliens who are just exploring is an appealing and rare notion in Star Trek. I think there was a missed opportunity in this episode in that we never got see Sisko playing baseball with Buck Bokai. On one final note the funniest part of the episode is when we see Odo’s fantasy is to have Quark locked up. Maybe not all the surprising a revelation but Odo’s little laugh at his own imagination coming to life cracks me up every time.

The Forsaken - I can’t really say much about this one so I won’t, moving along…

Dramatis Personae - I freely admit out of the first season this is my favorite light-weight episode. This episode has a lot of fun using all the characters in new ways just for one episode though not nearly as good as “Our man Bashir” or even remotely close to “Far Beyond The Stars” but still very entertaining. I particularly like Sisko’s alternate personality who if you slapped an eye patch on him, gave him a parrot then put him on pirate ship he would have been perfectly at home. One other thing, I did like that the alien influence was never fully explained but not that it probably would have had a creditable explanation anyway. Btw the thing that Sisko the pirate builds can still be seen in his office through out the series.

Duet - Ok, now this was the first and best Kira episodes of the series but ironically I can’t say specifically why its so good. The closest I can come to an explanation are most of the scenes between Kira and Marritza / Gul Darheel. Beyond that I think episode is so full of passion its impossible to nail down what actually works and what doesn’t. Simply put it’s a stellar episode that is almost as good as “Far Beyond The Stars”

In the Hands of the Prophets - This episode is what I really think separates DS9 from the rest of Star Trek in its ability to handle religion with out feeling preachy or over bearing. To me what The Bajoran’s believe seems very credible and real to me which is a credit to the writers. I think by the end of this episode its not really summing up the relationship between The Federation or Bajor but rather it comes down to the understanding of two people, Kira and Sisko. These are two characters who started out on virtually different sides but now are coming together. Besides Obrien and Bashir Kira and Sisko is one of the best and most important relationships in the series.


Dan - Wed, Jul 23, 2008 - 8:33am (USA Central)
Revisited the early seasons on both Cable TV and with my Christmas Present Box Set.
I can safetly say that the first season of DS9 has aged very well. Especially when you look you compare it to TNG's first season.
Like TNG this got better and better as time went on. Even my Dad who has been a Trek fan since the 60's conceeds that this is the best Trek series of the lot.
Nic - Mon, Sep 28, 2009 - 8:43pm (USA Central)
I wouldn't call DS9's freshman season "surprisingly good." It was definitely better than TNG's first season, but not as good as Voyager's. The pilot is very good at introducing the characters but nothing much of relevance happens and a lot of time is spent on Sisko explaining mundane things like baseball to the wormhole aliens.
I also disliked "Vortex", not just because Odo lets a murderer go free (which contradicts his sens of "justice" in the rest of the series) but especially because it promised to reveal information about his species but copped out at the last minute. I also thought Opaka staying behind in "Battle Lines" made no sense, other than the writers needed a character to die so we would 'find out' about the nanoprobes. However, this can be forgiven as it gave us the fantastic character of Kai Winn.
I'll admit "Duet" is still one of my favourite episodes, but the one I think you most underrated is "Dramatis Personae." This is the kind of fun you usually can't have with the characters until the third season, and it was nice to see this crop up so early in the series.
And THANK GOD Jake and Nog's annoying antics, which reminded me of Wesley Crusher, slowly faded away after this season.
Dave F - Sun, Apr 17, 2011 - 7:41pm (USA Central)
So I have been re-watching DS9 since the beginning, because when it first aired there was quite a few episodes that I missed. Growing up I enjoyed TNG and Voyager a lot more - and I still do. The great thing about Star Trek is that there is such a variety and so many fans we can all like different things. While I love DS9, I enjoyed TNG or Voyager more.

The first season: I enjoyed it quite a bit. There was some wild swings in quality and a few dogs ("Babel" and "The Storyteller") but every first season is going to have get the kinks out of the show. While it is not fair to judge TNG's 6th season versus DS9's 1st season, since they aired during the same year I must say TNG's 6th season was far superior. It's not fair because TNG was running at warp drive by that point and this show was just starting. DS9's first season was much more structured than TNG's 1st season, as the writers knew what to avoid. Most of the stories were well thought out and allowed the characters to grow in a universe that was different than TNG, but still within the Federation.

The characters were given life and proper backstories and were definitely not copies of TNG or TOS. The actors were all quite enjoyable too. I have to admit that I didn't enjoy Bashir that much, and while he was never my favorite character I do like the journey his character took as he matured throughout the show. It was awful that Garak only appeared once this season! I for one thought that Garak should have been promoted to a regular character.

Would I recommend this season? Yes. Is it excellent? No. As a Star Trek fan I enjoyed it, but it was not my favorite season of Star Trek by far, but it set up the premise for some excellent episodes that were to come both in this season and in the future.

1) Emissary: *** -> An excellent premiere that set everything up quite nicely. The storyline was engaging and the introduction to DS9 and the wormhole was handled quite well. I did *not* like the way Sisko treated Picard (I understood the intentions by the writers) as it left a bad taste in my mouth as I was loyal to Picard. All of the characters received enough screen time for me to enjoy the new show.

2) Past Prologue: *** -> I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. The storyline moved swiftly and confidently and having this episode about Kira was a smart move. The character is brought to life by Nana Visitor in a terrific way. The Duras sisters was a great touch for Trek fans, in that why this is a different show - it's still Star Trek.

3) A Man Alone: ** 1/2 -> I enjoyed it more than other people. I thought it was a clever ending in that he killed a clone of himself to frame Odo. I love Odo, but I thought the way the Bajorans turned on him so fast (especially since he tried to be fair during the Occupation) was a little forced. An average hour, but enjoyable nonetheless.

4) Babel: * 1/2 -> Why do all Trek series have to do a "disease episode" in the first season? This was awful. The entire "babeling" got old fast and even the somewhat exciting "action" ending couldn't get past the 35 minutes it took dragging to get there.

5) Captive Pursuit: *** -> A great O'Brien episode. It gives the Gamma Quadrant a face: a scary face in that it's an unexplored dangerous place that we know nothing about. The Alpha and Beta Quadrants was pretty explored during the course of TNG's run so it was refreshing to see some real unchartered territory that does not know what the Federation is. I liked the contrast to TNG in how O'Brien "changed" the rules. I thought it was fair given the circumstances.

6) Q-Less: ** -> Medicore. I think it was a good thing Q never reappeared as this episode showed he did not fit with the DS9 crew at all. Seeing Vash was nice, but the story never really amounted to much. The line about the TNG crew figuring this stuff out was quite amusing....but it was interesting that the DS9 writers incorporated it.

7) Dax: *** 1/2 -> The first excellent episode of DS9. Jadzia was my favorite character of DS9 and this established just why and how she is so wise (and fun to watch on screen).

8) The Passenger: ** -> The first few acts were quite enjoyable and held my attention. However, it completely derailed in the last act. I enjoyed the action/science fiction premise but the ending was....bizarre. I hate to say this but Siddig's performance was absolutely horrendous and completely ruined the ending.

9) Move Along Home: ** -> The Gamma Qudadrant Ferengi? Average, but still it was nice to see the Gamma Quadrant explored. However, the whole "game" element got tiring fast especially as the aliens just repeated the same lines over and over.

10) The Nagus: *** -> The first Ferengi episode was quite good. However, howcome Rom was not reprimanded at the end? It was this gaping plot hole and made security look terrible on DS9. I'm sorry. He attempted murder, and something should have been done.

11) Vortex: *** 1/2 -> Giving clues to Odo's existence was the correct idea. It gave us some answers to keep our attention but enough to bring up new questions. A great hour that held my attention with some great special effects.

12) Battle Lines: *** -> An enjoyable episode that was not terrific but watchable. It was a good premise, and by having Kai Opaka stay on the planet to bring peace I thought was interesting, because of the possibilities that it brought up for Bajor as while a great character was not going to cause any trouble for Sisko.

13) The Storyteller: * -> This episode was horrendous! I was not a fan of the Jake/Nog B-stories of the early seasons, but when that is a highlight you've got issues. The A-story, while at least gave us a glimpse of the excellent friendship of Bashir and O'Brien. The plotline of a mythical energy being fed off by emotions was laughable. Thankfully it was never revisited.

14) Progress: *** -> A nice hour that had to occur. It showed Kira maturing and realizing Bajor needs to make some changes if it wants a brighter future. That meant sacrifices, and I thought while this episode dragged a bit it was a still enjoyable story. The B-story was basically a repeat of the previous week.

15) If Wishes Were Horses: * 1/2 -> Everyone think good thoughts and this episode might improve! It was bizarre that nobody seemed to care about their "impending doom" because of the anomaly so any jeopardy was non-existent as it seemed everyone just thought it was a regular day at the office.

16) The Forsaken: *** -> An enjoyable hour, that showcases that I must be the only person who loves Lwaxana! I think she's a hoot! I actually loved the Odo/Lwaxana pair because the acting and characterization was quite amusing to watch. The ending was quite touching.

17) Dramatis Personae: ** -> Another spatial anomaly to let the characters-not-be-themselves and it left me with a mediocre feeling. The storyline took forever to get going, but once it did it least became somewhat interesting as the premise of an ancient power struggle was interesting. Excitement was lacking here though.

18) Duet: **** -> A DS9 masterpiece but I think we all know that. Terrific story. Terrific acting. For a show that had no action it was a completely engrossing. Absolutely excellent.

19) In the Hands of the Prophets: *** 1/2 -> DS9 ends its first season on a high note. Action and political intrigue blended nicely into a very believable hour. Louise Fletcher is a wonderful addition to the cast. The storyline I thought exploited the premise of Bajor confronting the future in a profound and realistic way, that was not forced at all. The crew came off really well in this episode, and I thought it was a great ending to make people come back for the second season.
grumpy_otter - Fri, Jun 28, 2013 - 9:06pm (USA Central)
I liked this, but not quite as much as Jammer. I was very excited by the beginning and thought this would be a science/religion conflict exploration.

Instead it became politically correct and pointed out that the religious crazies are the only ones to fear while the moderately religious are just fine, when any level of religious thinking is a contradiction of reason.

Sisko's conversation with Jake was the typical type of appeasement that has been given to the irrationality of religion for far too long.

I did enjoy it all right--just not as much as I thought I would. Keiko rocked in her refusal to compromise--I wish the episode had been more about that simple conflict rather than having to bring in a murder.

And after all these years, Nurse Ratched can still make me shudder. She is scary--perhaps most so when she is pretending to be nice.
T'Paul - Mon, Jul 1, 2013 - 9:24am (USA Central)
The religion/science debate is pretty run of the mill in my opinion, but for me what really stands out here is the foreshadowing of Winn's character and personality, which as we know become key later in the series...

It's interesting to see how she's consistent from the very beginning, how she says "I'd love to look into the prophets' eyes" (or words to that effect)
azcats - Wed, Sep 11, 2013 - 3:01pm (USA Central)
I dont know if DS9 did a good job with Vedek Winn or not? because, i absolutedly hated her. i am not sure because it was done on purpose or because it was done poorly? i mean, dukat was a villain and i liked him. but maybe, Winn is a villain in her own. but man...she drove me nuts.

this is an example of one of the few times that the A and B plots intertwine. and they do a great job. the mystery and detective work was fascinating.

heck, the science vs religion was just a way to move the plot along, and it too was great.

and iloved the conversation between sisko and jake.

Snitch - Mon, Oct 14, 2013 - 8:57pm (USA Central)
These kinds of problems with the religious Taliban is still prevalent even in the USA. With Winn they further detail Winn as a perfect villainous character that I always enjoyed.

3 1/2 stars
Kotas - Tue, Oct 22, 2013 - 2:15pm (USA Central)

Not a bad episode considering it is focused on the Bajoran storyline.

5/10
Dusty - Thu, Feb 13, 2014 - 1:47am (USA Central)
I didn't find the Bajoran stuff in DS9 very absorbing--until 'Duet', and this episode. Vedek Winn immediately looks like one of the most dangerous antagonists on the show, because she's a wolf in sheep's clothing. She hides behind religion, knowing Sisko can't deal with her as she deserves without compromising Federation and Bajoran relations. Her fanaticism and disregard for Sisko's role were evident as well. I also respected Keiko's character for the first time (her painful acting aside). This was the kind of religious and political intrigue that previous ST shows wouldn't have touched, and it put DS9 a cut above everything else. An oustanding finale to a rocky but promising first season.
Dave in NC - Fri, May 30, 2014 - 3:07am (USA Central)
A multiple female character episode. I guess on Star Trek it goes unnoticed, but serious dramas with such strong female performances? It's not as common as some people think.

Anyways, a few notes:

1) When Winn talks about being admonished by Kai Opaka for wanting to see the prophets for herself, Kai Opaka told her she should sit in darkness and pray for atonement. I flashed ahead to the final season.

I think it was interesting that Winn ended up sending both Ranjen and Dukat to their own darknesses, yet in the end she only got to see the Pah Wraiths. I like the suggestion that Opaka had already glimpsed the future in a vision of the Prophets.

2) I liked Keiko taking a stand on not teaching the Bajoran religion in her class. I agree. Schools should teach facts, not uninformed mumbo-jumbo. However . . .

3) Since day one Keiko has been portrayed as a passive-aggressive antagonist to Miles, so I did get a perverse pleasure out of seeing both Vedek Winn and the ever-sassy Kira put her in her place. (I lol'd when Kira called her "Mrs. O'Brien" in a sing-songy tone.)

4) while it was very entertaining, the murder plot really was unnecessary. I would have been just fine with the episode continuing to go in a philosophical direction (An arbitration by a unbiased 3rd party perhaps?) There are so many ideas about superstition vs science that could have been explored.

Then again, this was a season finale. There are certain expectations and social commentary isn't one of them.

I'd give this 3 stars, not the best plot: but superior characterizations and strong performances abound.


Dave in NC - Fri, May 30, 2014 - 3:12am (USA Central)
Really, this is a must view in terms of the plotlines that develop over the rest of the show.

Not the best episode, but truly essential viewing.
Robert - Fri, May 30, 2014 - 8:56am (USA Central)
I actually see the murder plot as a darker social commentary. Without too much to a IRL political discussion most IRL politics is informed by votes and not by beliefs. As a liberal it's my opinion that most conservatives don't give a damn about gay marriage and abortion but if you whip religious types into a fever pitch it'll get people to the polls. It's my opinion that if Roe was ever overturned a lot of Republicans would be crying into their pillows because their "get religious types to the polls free" card would be spent.

As I said though, I don't want to paint this as an IRL political discussion or even to place judgement on non politicians. I'm sure many conservatives think liberals are only pretending to care for minorities/poor people to get votes for instance, it flows both ways.

To hop back to my original analogy though... looking at Vedek Winn through a lens of 7 seasons of knowledge... she never cared a bit about what Keiko was teaching in the school. Her rant about the wormhole aliens/prophets wasn't that of a true believer... it was to drum up support from true believers (like Neela). Winn is even said to come from a conservative sect. So she picks a pet issue to whip religious types into a fervor about and then uses them to advance her political agenda. It's a BRILLIANT condemnation on conservative politics and how non believers wield true believers to do their bidding.

It touches on the evolution in schools bit, it goes back to Galileo, it's the beginning of Winn's arc, it touches on the fact that dismissing your opponent's views outright makes you a fanatic for the other side as it softens Sisko's thinking of the aliens as prophets (To those aliens, the future is no more difficult to see than the past. Why shouldn't they be considered Prophets?), it touches on religious hypocrisy (VENDOR: Seek the Prophets. ODO: Seek them yourself.).

You could hear echoes of bombing abortion clinics in it...

"SISKO: The Prophets had nothing to do with what happened here today. This was the work of a disturbed and violent mind who listened to your voice, not the Prophets."

It's easily in my top 10 episodes of DS9. And it caps the season REALLY nicely for a finale.

"KIRA: Commander, I heard what you said to Vedek Winn at the school. I just wanted you to know you were right what you said about the Bajorans, at least about me. I don't think you're the devil.
SISKO: Maybe we have made some progress after all."

I've always wondered why this episode doesn't make more favorite lists. It's brilliant. And coming after Duet and before the Circle Trilogy... some people say DS9 took off in it's 3rd year (with the Defiant) and some say it took off in it's 4th year (with the Klingon war) but these 5 episodes are where it went from pleasing fluff to must see TV.
Robert - Fri, May 30, 2014 - 10:10am (USA Central)
Oh, and not to mention... it does all of that and never feels very preachy. Especially given Sisko's room for all philosophies speech and the fact that by the end of the series he is a truer believe than Winn. Emissary may be the anchor point for the series bible, but this episode grounds/informs literally everything that comes after.
Paul - Fri, May 30, 2014 - 1:49pm (USA Central)
@Robert: I agree that this episode is underrated, but I think I know why it is ...

DS9 was still sort of finding its way in the first season. The only two characters who were sort of synched up at this point were Kira and O'Brien. All the others change a great deal over the next season.

Also, while this was a good episode, it wasn't what most people had come to expect from Star Trek at the time. That can be said for a lot of DS9, but the good stuff in that category in the early days was still sort of hard to figure out.

Frankly, I think DS9 found its footing in season two with the Maquis two-parter, and the series was strong -- aside from most Ferengi episodes -- for the next several seasons, peaking at the end of season five and in the first six episodes of season six. The seventh season was uneven at the beginning, but ended fairly well.

What's interesting is that episodes like this one echoed throughout the series run, but a lot of the first season and second season material -- random encounters with people from the Gamma Quadrant, more of the day-to-day life on the station, Keiko's school -- were sort of wiped away.
Dave in NC - Fri, May 30, 2014 - 11:15pm (USA Central)
After reading the comments above, I'm rewatching the episode.

Some stray observations as I watch:

Opening scene: Keiko is mean to Miles, as usual. I would have taken that Jumjum stick and dropped it on the floor and walked away.

Classroom scene: At first I thought "How coincidental" Winn walks in right right as Keiko is teaching about the wormhole, but then I realized spying has never been something Winn had a problem with.

Kira and Keiko meet with Sisko: I've got to take Keiko's side. Teaching scientifically verifiable facts isn't a philosophy. Sorry, Kira.

Sisko at the temple with Winn: Can she really tell if people don't believe in the prophets by touching their ears?

Anyways, I get the feeling that Winn genuinely believes it is disrespectful not to teach about the prophets, but yes, she is taking advantage of the situation by fanning the "orthodox" flames.

Miles and Keiko can't buy a jum-ja stick: Reminds me of Mississippi making it legal to refuse service to gay people. Obviously, it doesn't change anyone's minds.

Winn with the crowd in front of the school: Winn does her Machiavellian thing by setting her up in front of the crowd, making it look as if she is the "reasonable" one and Keiko is the zealot, but I don't buy that for a second. Not teaching scientific fact because it doesn't agree with a spiritual belief is ridiculous.

If I were Keiko, I would have said "I'll pencil the Prophets in right between the Divine Treasury and Stovokor."

Sisko and Jake talk: Sisko tries to justify the Bajoran spiritual beliefs, but I'm sorry, there's no reason to take a rationally explainable thing and insert spirituality into it.

I was always of the opinion that the Prophets were highly evolved future Bajorans who decided to live outside of time, hence them saying "We are of Bajor".

Sisko at Bareil's garden: Wherever they filmed this, it is a BEAUTIFUL place.

Bareil explaining the fracturing in the Vedek Assembly reminded me of the Catholic bishops voting for a new Pope. And while Bareil gives off that "holy vibe", he shows his flaws when she let's slip his ambition to be Kai.

Sisko and Kira talk at ops: Kira's not being fair to Sisko when he asks her for some support. She IS his first officer, and it is totally inappropriate for her to support a "sick-out" amongst the station crew. Her philosophy comment was way off base.

The crew discusses Aquino's murder: A short scene, but it wasn't really necessary. The next scene with Miles and the Bajoran assistant covers the same information with effortless humanity and character development. By the way, Miles should have said yes. ;)

The Odo scenes with Miles: needless exposition, the killer was on pad A not pad C, blah blah.

School gets bombed: More on this in the final summary.

Sisko confronts Winn: he outright blames her when he has no actual evidence her nonsense caused the bombing. I would be very suspicious of her too, but calling her out on it? I wouldn't have done that. Image to some extent is reality, after all.

I definitely wouldn't have gotten into a passionate argument with her in front of a crowd of onlookers. That's not the appropriate way to put the Federation's best foot forward.

Winn meets with the Bajoran spy: talk about being fake- it is Winn's first time showing her true colors. The ends justify the means indeed.

Bariel meets the Kai: the seeds are sown for their dislike for each other in this, their first exchange. A well-acted scene. I definitely wish I could hear more of Bariel's speech supporting scientific research.

The attempted assassination scene is very well-done: the slow motion and the orchestral score are very effective, although the "Nooo!" yelled by Sisko was pretty cheesy.

Final thoughts:

I'm not sure if the parallel to conservatism is 100% accurate, simply because, unlike any religion on Earth, the Bajorans actually have some evidence their Gods exist. They have orbs, wormholes, and verifiable visions from the Prophets; we do not.

I do believe that Kai Winn believes in the Prophets existence, even if their motives are a complete mystery to her. I think she believes that if she gains enough importance, they will actually speak with her. After all, they chat with a human running a space station and he doesn't believe at all. She does this because of her CHARACTER, not because the script demanded an allegory.

So while I definitely think this episode was making some sly commentary that is obviously directed at fanatics, at it's core it was a character driven episode, not a moral-of-the-week.

I've revised my rating upwards to 3.5 stars. Rewatchability and world-building make this a true must-view.











Robert - Mon, Jun 2, 2014 - 8:58am (USA Central)
I'm not telling you she doesn't believe in the prophets, and I like your observation that she might be growing in power BECAUSE she wants to speak to them.

"I once asked Kai Opaka why a disbeliever was destined to seek the Prophets, and she told me one should never look into the eyes of one's own gods. I disagreed. I told her I would do anything to look into their eyes."

That actually does seem to inform her character for the entire series. Her character's descent into well, what she eventually become beings in S6 Rapture.

"WINN: Prophet, hear me. I am the Kai of Bajor. I offer myself to you as your humble servant,
KIRA: I await their vessel.
WINN: Speak to me. Tell me what I should do.
KIRA: ::silence::"

She's the Kai, and a prophet is standing in front of her and STILL won't talk to her. It's gotta seem pretty unfair from her perspective.

I don't mean she's not a believer of the prophets, but I saw it differently than you.

"KIRA: It was all to get him here, wasn't it? The school, the protests, the bombing. You knew that would get him out of the monastery. You did it all to kill him, to stop him from becoming Kai. "

I just got the feeling Kira hit the nail on the head. Winn never cared about the school. That's something Neela would care about. Winn just cared about power. I could be wrong of course, there's no way to read Winn's mind.

"I'm not sure if the parallel to conservatism is 100% accurate, simply because, unlike any religion on Earth, the Bajorans actually have some evidence their Gods exist. They have orbs, wormholes, and verifiable visions from the Prophets; we do not."

Sure, but since Winn has never spoken to the prophets (which you find out later in the series), the analogy still stands. Let's assume the Roman Catholic God exists, barring anyone who has actually spoken to him, who the hell are any of us to assume how he'd feel about gay people (to use an example)? I actually am somewhat religious, but I find it quite audacious that anyone tries to condemn someone based on a line in a multiply translated bible or based on their own knowledge of what "God wants". That's where I think the parallel works.

Sure, the prophets are real and they talk to Sisko... but the Bajorans fight over prophecy interpretations all the time. Kira and Bareil do. The prophecy in Destiny comes true (albeit differently than ANYONE interpreted). I guess I just think that what Winn wants is power and respect from her gods. Getting Keiko to stop teaching what some small sect considers blasphemy is just a way to wield fanatics like Neela... just like gay marriage is a way for politicians who probably aren't that upset about it to wield evangelicals. Again, I could be wrong though (about Winn and some politicians, I'm sure some are true believers).

Last thing before this gets ridiculously longer. "Miles and Keiko can't buy a jum-ja stick: Reminds me of Mississippi making it legal to refuse service to gay people."

I CONSTANTLY see echoes of current issues that didn't exist back then in DS9. It's one of the things that has caused the show to age so well for me.
Yanks - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 8:04am (USA Central)
"JAKE: How could anyone be so stupid?
SISKO: It's easy to look back seven centuries and judge what was right and wrong.
JAKE: But the same thing is happening now with all this stuff about the Celestial Temple in the wormhole. It's dumb.
SISKO: No, it's not. You've got to realize something, Jake. For over fifty years, the one thing that allowed the Bajorans to survive the Cardassian occupation was their faith. The Prophets were their only source of hope and courage.
JAKE: But there were no Prophets. They were just some aliens that you found in the wormhole.
SISKO: To those aliens, the future is no more difficult to see than the past. Why shouldn't they be considered Prophets?
JAKE: Are you serious?
SISKO: My point is, it's a matter of interpretation. It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong. If you start to think that way, you'll be acting just like Vedek Winn, Only from the other side. We can't afford to think that way, Jake. We'd lose everything we've worked for here"

Militant atheists and zealots could learn a lesson here.

I think this episode should be shown in schools (high school and college) and be the basis for outstanding discussion with the students.

4 out of 4 stars for me. Right below "Duet" in my DS9 S1 rankings.
Yanks - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 8:07am (USA Central)
Sorry, by post was cut short. Here's the whole thing.

What a great S1 closer. This episode completely set the tone for the next 6 years of DS9 and did it very well.

I've read all the great comments above (great discussion) and have a couple things to say.

I never for one second thought that KIA winn was a true believer, never. My justification for this is - can you for a second see KIA Opaka resorting to the immoral/illegal acts that Winn did to gain and retain the KIA position? I think the answer to that is a resounding no. Opaka was a true religious leader in the best sense of the word and Winn was a wannabe that had no moral compass and only wanted power.

This episode DOES depict extremes. Religious extremists existed here long before 911. I love how this episode depicts politicians for what they are. They will fire up whatever group they need to achieve their goals (or win elections). Even Vedic Berial understands that in order for him to make change, he needs to win the KIA election and he knows that if he comes off as extreme he has no chance to win. So he plays the game. I'm sure the same goes on electing the Pope and I know it goes on in politics. They are all forced to play the game, regardless of intentions. And, as we see in politics here, Sisko and Berial took advantage of a "crisis" to play their angle too. (even though Winn set it up) So politics is politics, regardless of whether you're a "true believer" or not.

We have had the "Evolution vs Intelligent Design" war here for 50 years. This episode brings to light that dilemma in trek (for the first time I believe).

Aside from his delivery, I love Sisko's speech to the crowd. Just because the Federation doesn't create policy and educate based on religious beliefs, doesn't make them "the devil".

Keiko... what a b@##$#@$@#. Obrien should have definitely said YES!! :-) I do agree with her stance on teaching the facts and commend her for not wavering. I do think she could have brought out that the Bajoran beliefs would be taught in another class. (maybe she did, I can't remember)

I personally thought the best part and most important part of the entire episode was Sisko's exchange with Jake:

"JAKE: How could anyone be so stupid?
SISKO: It's easy to look back seven centuries and judge what was right and wrong.
JAKE: But the same thing is happening now with all this stuff about the Celestial Temple in the wormhole. It's dumb.
SISKO: No, it's not. You've got to realize something, Jake. For over fifty years, the one thing that allowed the Bajorans to survive the Cardassian occupation was their faith. The Prophets were their only source of hope and courage.
JAKE: But there were no Prophets. They were just some aliens that you found in the wormhole.
SISKO: To those aliens, the future is no more difficult to see than the past. Why shouldn't they be considered Prophets?
JAKE: Are you serious?
SISKO: My point is, it's a matter of interpretation. It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong. If you start to think that way, you'll be acting just like Vedek Winn, Only from the other side. We can't afford to think that way, Jake. We'd lose everything we've worked for here"

Militant atheists and zealots could learn a lesson here.

I think this episode should be shown in schools (high school and college) and be the basis for outstanding discussion with the students.

4 out of 4 stars for me. Right below "Duet" in my DS9 S1 rankings.
Robert - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 10:46am (USA Central)
"Keiko... what a b@##$#@$@#. Obrien should have definitely said YES!! :-) I do agree with her stance on teaching the facts and commend her for not wavering. I do think she could have brought out that the Bajoran beliefs would be taught in another class. (maybe she did, I can't remember)"

I think the issue is that she will not teach Bajoran beliefs as truth.

I learned about many religions in my social studies classes growing up, but I was never taught that any of it was true. I'm SURE Keiko would have no issues editing the curriculum to explain that Bajorans believe the wormhole aliens are prophets, but I doubt that would satisfy the people who were annoyed by her class.
Yanks - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 11:24am (USA Central)
@ Robert - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 10:46am (USA Central)

I think the issue is that she will not teach Bajoran beliefs as truth.

I learned about many religions in my social studies classes growing up, but I was never taught that any of it was true. I'm SURE Keiko would have no issues editing the curriculum to explain that Bajorans believe the wormhole aliens are prophets, but I doubt that would satisfy the people who were annoyed by her class.
=========================================

Exactly. More specifically "scientific truths". I had to go back to the transcript.

Winn was adamant that the prophets be included and Keiko was opposed:

WINN: I feel your anger toward me, and I forgive you for it. Mrs O'Brien, if I've misjudged you, I am terribly sorry. Have I? Is there a place in your school for the Prophets?
KEIKO: No.

It appears that Social Studies is a thing of the past.

Keiko does have the right idea here:

"KEIKO: I'm a teacher. My responsibility is to expose my students to knowledge, not hide it from them. The answer is no."

But not to teach that folks have religious affiliations/beliefs and the role it plays in society is wrong IMO.

Like I said, it's the classic "Evolution v ID" battle. Neither side wants to budge.
Robert - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 11:33am (USA Central)
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I didn't read any of that into this.

"KEIKO: Yes, on Bajor the entities are worshipped as prophets."

Keiko is MORE than willing to mention Bajoran spiritual beliefs in her classroom, but Winn wants her to put weight behind it. Keiko is not willing to say it's true, but only that it's what Bajor believes.

"KEIKO: Our studies of the wormhole have shown that it was formed by unique particles we call verterons that are apparently self-sustaining in nature. This begins to explain how a ship at impulse can safely pass through
WINN: Ships are safely guided through the passage by the hands of the Prophets.
KEIKO: In a manner of speaking.
WINN: Not apparently in your manner of speaking."

Again, Winn doesn't want her to expose the children TO the Bajoran religion, she wants her to teach the Bajoran religion as truth.

"KEIKO: Perhaps we should discuss this after class.
WINN: Do you believe the Celestial Temple of the Prophets exists within the passage?
KEIKO: I respect that the Bajoran people believe that it does."

I hear no unwillingness to discuss Bajoran spiritual beliefs here, she's just not willing to teach them as truth. Growing up I was exposed to religious beliefs in social studies classes but I was taught that those beliefs were true in my Sunday school. I see nothing in this text to assume Keiko would not be willing to have the same arrangement.

"WINN: But that's not what you teach.
KEIKO: No, I don't teach Bajoran spiritual beliefs. That's your job. Mine is to open the children's minds to history, to literature, to mathematics, to science."

She does mention it's her job to open the children's minds to history. I assume that when they get to Bajoran history, Bajoran religion will be covered, just as I learned about the Shinto religion when my social studies teacher covered Japan.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that every time Keiko tried to reach out to Winn halfway

"KEIKO: Yes, on Bajor the entities are worshipped as prophets."

"KEIKO: I respect that the Bajoran people believe that it does."

That wasn't good enough. Keiko KNEW that Winn needed her to say that the ships pass through safely guided by the prophets hands (which we learn is true in season 6 :P) in order to be satisfied. Exposing the kids to Bajoran beliefs is NOT what Winn was looking for here.
Yanks - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 12:07pm (USA Central)
@ Robert.

I quote transcripts that prove my point and you say we have to agree to disagree?

You quote the exchange that occurred after Winn entered the classroom. Knowing how Keiko responded to Winn in the promenade can you honestly say that Keiko would have called the worm-hole aliens "prophets" in her class had KIA Winn not been there? No, you can't. Keiko was only responding to Winn's prodding after she was put on the spot in front of her students.

You can believe she would have covered that in history class, but that's pure speculation. Nothing in this episode would indicate she would. Much to the contrary. What part of "No" don't you get?

I had social studies too, but remember, this is the 24th century Federation. Religion is frowned upon, made a spectacle of and shunned by Star Fleet and the Federation. (as we've seen many times in trek)

Keiko had the opportunity to "reach out" in the promenade, and she emphatically said no. Twice.
Elliott - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 12:11pm (USA Central)
@Robert and Yanks:

I actually agree with both of you. Yanks is right about the Federation's attitude about religion and Robert is right that this episode paints Keiko out to be tolerant and even accommodating of Bajoran bullshit. Keiko's response to Winn should have been, "Why don't you get the hell out of my classroom before I call security?"
Andy's Friend - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 12:35pm (USA Central)
@Yanks:

The exchange you quote does NOT prove your point:

WINN: [...] Is there a place in your school for the Prophets?
KEIKO: No.

...merely means just that: Keiko is saying "No" to the Prophets as Prophets, not as wormhole aliens. This becomes totally evident in context. And as this is a series with some continuity, and we happen to know Keiko as a serious woman of science, there is nothing to support your claim that:

"You can believe she would have covered that in history class, but that's pure speculation. Nothing in this episode would indicate she would. Much to the contrary. What part of "No" don't you get?"

I'm saying Robert got the part of "No" that you didn't. No to Prophets, Yes to wormhole aliens worshipped by Bajorans.
Yanks - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 1:00pm (USA Central)
@ Andy's Friend

That's speculation and semantics on your part.

I just watched the episode last night. She only acknowledged Bajoran religious beliefs when confronted and when asked directly, she emphatically said no.

If she had any intention on including them in her school, don't you think the prudent answer, infront of everyone, in defense of her school would have been "Yes, in our social sciences (or something) class?

She teaches that there are wormhole aliens and that the wornhole it was artificially constructed and it was formed by unique particles called verterons that are apparently self-sustaining in nature. She believes it's her job to open the children's minds to history, to literature, to mathematics, to science... That's what she was teaching before Winn showed up. Now if it makes you feel better, you can include religion in history or literature. But there is nothing in this episode that would indicate she would. As you said, she’s a woman of science.
Yanks - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 1:07pm (USA Central)
@ Elliott

I'll disagree. She was only tolerant when it was expedient. When she had a chance to prove it, she didn't.

But as to Winn's classroom interruption, that's exactly what I thought when I watched this episode.

KIA Winn enters classroom without permission.

Keiko: "Excuse me? May I help you?"

Winn: "Hello child..."

Keiko: "Carry your holy ass out of my classroom!"

LOL
Robert - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 1:27pm (USA Central)
"You quote the exchange that occurred after Winn entered the classroom. Knowing how Keiko responded to Winn in the promenade can you honestly say that Keiko would have called the worm-hole aliens "prophets" in her class had KIA Winn not been there? No, you can't. Keiko was only responding to Winn's prodding after she was put on the spot in front of her students."

Honestly, yes. That's how I read the scene. I agree with Andy's Friend... when when says "Is there a place in your school for the Prophets?" she's asking the same as a Catholic person would be asking a teacher "Isn't there a place in your school for God?" And that question does NOT MEAN in a Social Studies sense. She's asking a MUCH MORE loaded question than you are giving it credit for.
Robert - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 1:31pm (USA Central)
"As you said, she’s a woman of science."

Perhaps so, but it was a science lesson. Asking if there's room for the Prophets in a science lesson is like asking if there's room for God in a big bang lesson. The answer is that we can talk about God in Social Studies, but NOT in the way you'd like us to :)

Winn's question was loaded. I can demonstrate

"WINN: Let me be the one to make the first concession. I will no longer request that you teach anything about the Celestial Temple. Just don't teach anything about the wormhole at all.
KEIKO: Ignore it?
WINN: Find other ways, other things to teach the children.
KEIKO: And when we get to theories of evolution or creation of the universe, what then?
WINN: We'll face those issues when we come to them.
KEIKO: I'm a teacher. My responsibility is to expose my students to knowledge, not hide it from them. The answer is no. "

This is proof positive that Winn's request was that Keiko teach about the prophets DURING the wormhole science lesson AND call them prophets. She was not asking for a secular viewpoint lesson on Bajoran religion in social studies class.

You may say I'm reading too much into Winn's dialogue, but I think you're reading things that are not there into Keiko's.
Andy's Friend - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 1:58pm (USA Central)
@Yanks: Yes, you're right that that would have been the prudent answer. But as we also know, Keiko has a temper. This is a classic example of giving a somewhat confrontational answer, rather than a diplomatic one, when facing someone whom we simply can't stand. Happens all the time.

I'm sure that the ever diplomatic Picard would have remained calm and collected and would have answered as you suggested. Keiko, also being true to character, answered as she did. It seems to me that you are basing your evaluation of Keiko as a teacher on that single answer to Winn. But that is mererely a perfectly reasonable expression of personal antipathy. Who can blame her? ;)

Like Elliott and you yourself just wrote, I would also have been somewhat harder on Winn than Keiko was. But that doesn't mean that I would neglect my duties as a teacher regarding the wormhole aliens. I'm betting that neither Elliott nor you would, either. And I'm betting that neither would Keiko.
Andy's Friend - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 2:26pm (USA Central)
@Robert:

You're quite right in your lasts comments. Of course Winn would like to see some sort of Bajoran Catechism be taught on DS9 ― your "Sunday school" example. And Keiko makes it clear ― as you quoted earlier ― that that is not her responsibility. There is of course a huge difference between saying "These wormhole aliens are worshipped by the Bajorans thus and thus," and saying "These are The Prophets, and the Celestial Temple is their heavenly abode. Their will be done." I'm pretty sure that Keiko wouldn't mind teaching the former. But Winn obviously wants her to teach the latter. And as Yanks points out, the answer to that is "No." It really is as simple as that.
Yanks - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 4:43pm (USA Central)
@ Robert and Andy's Friend.

Love the discussion here. Thanks for commenting.

I'll try one more time :-)

Keiko isn't a teacher by trade. She's a bored scientist (botanist if I remember correctly). Sisko and O'brien basically gave her something to do. They threw a scientist in the classroom; teaching kids of all ages to boot.

Robert is convinced that she would teach religion in her school. I'm deducing, from what we know and have seen she would not.

Twice she had the opportunity to demonstrate that she would teach such a curriculum.

The 1st when KIA Winn burst into her classroom.

"WINN: Excuse me. By entities, do you not mean the Prophets?
KEIKO: Yes, on Bajor the entities are worshipped as prophets. Our studies of the wormhole have shown that it was formed by unique particles we call verterons that are apparently self-sustaining in nature. This begins to explain how a ship at impulse can safely pass through

(note: "our studies")

WINN: Ships are safely guided through the passage by the hands of the Prophets.
KEIKO: In a manner of speaking.
WINN: Not apparently in your manner of speaking.
KEIKO: Perhaps we should discuss this after class.
WINN: Do you believe the Celestial Temple of the Prophets exists within the passage?
KEIKO: I respect that the Bajoran people believe that it does.
WINN: But that's not what you teach.
KEIKO: No, I don't teach Bajoran spiritual beliefs. That's your job. Mine is to open the children's minds to history, to literature, to mathematics, to science."

(note: "I don't teach Bajoran spiritual beliefs")

Pretty clear there. Also a clear opportunity to say when and where they would cover that subject in her school. She clearly states that's not her job. If this was a subject matter covered in another class, this was the perfect time to tell her (and her Bajoran students). She did not.

The second is when she is addressed by KIA Winn in the promenade.

Without quoting the whole thing...

Winn: Is there a place in your school for the Prophets?
Keiko: No

WINN: Let me be the one to make the first concession. I will no longer request that you teach anything about the Celestial Temple. Just don't teach anything about the wormhole at all.
KEIKO: Ignore it?
WINN: Find other ways, other things to teach the children.
KEIKO: And when we get to theories of evolution or creation of the universe, what then?

More opportunities to tell Winn that that subject matter is taught in this or that class.

Nothing.

I don't see how anyone can deduce that somehow a scientist, thrown into teaching job, that clearly indicates that teaching religion "is your job" would ever teach that the prophets even exist in her school. Now that I'm not saying that she would teach the kids that they aren't prophets, but she wouldn't cover the religious aspect.

In no way am I condoning that snake Winn's actions either. Someone earlier mentioned hate WRT to Winn and her character. That was my take from the start. It's actually very well written (and expertly played by Louise Fletcher) We are supposed to hate her. I can't count the times I wanted to see her schwacked. :-)
UnkownSample - Tue, Jun 24, 2014 - 11:34pm (USA Central)
I don't understand the bajorans. Someone tell me what the bajorans mean when they say these "prophets" are gods? It's been stated on the show that they believe they are Gods. But It has been acknowledged that these entities in the wormhole can be killed with weapons and Kira has acknowledged this a couple times when the aliens were in danger. Also there was an episode where Kira was talking about the prophets and Worf says he prefers Klingon beliefs. Kira then says "I suppose your gods aren't as cryptic as ours." Worf proceeds to tell her that the Klingons killed their Gods a millennia ago. Kira says she doesn't understand Klingons. So it's not like on earth today where the major religions believe there is a single
god who created the universe. It's as though each planet has their own Gods or what they consider Gods. It's not like Kira believes the prophets created the Klingons. So I don't understand why bajorans worship these aliens when they know they can be killed and they didn't even know about linear time. Sisko had to explain that to them. The same linear time in which the bajorans live. This is one of my main problems with Sisko and DS9. I love the show but Picard would never have risked his sons life to let aliens play out a battle on the station. He really does buy into bajorans beliefs when he knows these are aliens. Just like any other alien in Star Trek who presented themselves as Gods to a primitive planet. Kirk and Picard have met a few of those races. Keiko should have pointed out to Winn that the prophets could be killed with some Torpedos or Chroniton particles.
Robert - Wed, Jun 25, 2014 - 9:04am (USA Central)
@Yanks

I think we're having 2 different conversations in some ways.

"Robert is convinced that she would teach religion in her school. I'm deducing, from what we know and have seen she would not."

"I don't see how anyone can deduce that somehow a scientist, thrown into teaching job, that clearly indicates that teaching religion "is your job" would ever teach that the prophets even exist in her school. "

I'm not saying she would teach religion or that the prophets exist. I'm saying she would likely teach ABOUT religion. Since Bajor seems nearly a theocracy, they are orbiting Bajor and have a ton of Bajorans one assumes Bajoran history is on the menu at some point.

I don't believe Keiko would ever say the prophets exist. I don't believe Keiko would ever teach Bajoran religion. I think she eventually would get around to have a secular discussion about Bajoran religion.

I think Jake might have to write a report on the orbs some day, or some prophecy's that have had a great impact on the culture. All from an anthropological standpoint.

What I'm postulating is that Keiko did not offer this solution up to Vedek Winn because Winn WOULD NOT have accepted it.

I think this exchange says it perfectly...

"WINN: Let me be the one to make the first concession. I will no longer request that you teach anything about the Celestial Temple. Just don't teach anything about the wormhole at all.
KEIKO: Ignore it?
WINN: Find other ways, other things to teach the children.
KEIKO: And when we get to theories of evolution or creation of the universe, what then? "

This is NOT, "could you please expose these children to the Bajoran faith in a secular way?"

This is "I would request that YOU NOT MENTION THE WORMHOLE unless you plan to teach it MY WAY". Keiko does not offer a compromise because Winn would never accept one. Also, as I said, I assume that Keiko would already be teaching Bajoran history, so there's nothing for her to offer.

TLDR Version - Keiko doesn't offer (in my opinion) to do a social studies class on Bajoran faith because she's probably already doing it and it's not what Winn wants anyway.

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