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Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

I acquiesce to your far greater sampling of today's youth. I didn't mean to start an argument. I just thought that maybe things weren't quite that bad. And I do think it's not a good sign that younger people don't or won't have the patience to wait a week to see something. Even something as unimportant as a television show.

I hate to think what will happen in the future. I must know everything about this thing in 10 seconds or less!! I'm afraid we are headed for a future of people that know little about anything. (Shudder)

Oh well. Maybe Discovery will save us. It they can build it, that is.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Mertov

I found your posts fascinating. Very informative.

But I do want to say, that I don't think that is always the case. I know quite a few under 30's who watch shows weekly. Including DIS, and GOT and others. It's true that younger people don't necessarily want to wait a week to see an episode, and so will wait for the entire season. But it's equally true that many of them don't want to have to wait months to see what happened either.

My own daughters watch The Walking Dead every week, among other various shows, though they certainly don't have to. They could binge watch it later if they wanted to.

So while I believe what you have said about your students, I don't think it's the norm or at least not the majority. Maybe it's because your students are students and have other priorities besides watching a weekly television show. All I'm saying is that maybe your dataset is skewed a bit.

Maybe everyone I know is in the minority. I don't know.

But I do know one thing. Most serious Star Trek fans no matter their age have been watching DIS every week. Ok I don't know that. LOL. But I bet it's true.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

I find it fascinating how much I, and all of the other posters here, care about this show, just because it's called Star Trek. The characters, plot, science, etc. I think we care more about it than the people who made it. Of course they are having to create a show out of whole cloth, and we get to dissect it afterward, so we should forgive them a bit if they make some mistakes. But then again, it is Star Trek, and they should realize what they are dealing with, so we shouldn't forgive them either. LOL. It's a tough call. So far, I think they did a little bit worse than they should have, or could have.

I'm just posting this because it's off for 2 months and have nothing else to say. :D

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

Lots of people asked him to leave, or hinted at it. I even hinted at it myself I guess. But Omicron don't stop commenting on the Orville at least. Stop commenting on the DIS threads mabye, since you haven't seen those, but not the Orville.

But I have to say, I'm reallys sick of talking about one person's contributions, and not the show itself, so everyone grow up. Including myself. I'm sick of it.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

I can't believe that we have been reduced to a discussion of whether someone should leave or not. How petty, and stupid.

That's as ridulous as a Voyager plot.

Of course you should stay OTDP. Who cares what others's think? F%#k them.

No one should ever be asked to leave, and I don't think you were asked to leave except by people who are ignorant to what you actually contributed, and certainly not by Jammer, who is the only one who matters in the end. Though I still think you should watch DIS!!!

It's not the best star trek show, that goes to TNG in my opinion, but it's not the worst either, which I think is VOY,

So yeah, screw those people, and keep posting stuff.

Do it just to show them that they are all bitches, if for no other reason. :D

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

'So what options do I have left?'

I honestly don't think you should leave at all. Especially on the Orville thread. And as far as any of the DIS threads, you have one really good option. Watch the episodes, and tell us what you think. It's very simple. That was the main gripe with everyone, is that you hadn't seen them. So watch them! Very simple.

I didn't want to jump in on this, but I also hate to see an intelligent articulate poster leave. I think you have been rightly criticized, and I did some of that myself, but just watch the show!!

I honestly don't know why you haven't, and keep insisting on commenting anyway. I'm so confused.

And how did this become a discussion of left/right wing politics? I'm confused again.

How about people discuss the show they want to on the appropriate thread, and make sure they have actually watched the show, and stick to discussing the show?

I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about that. I'm confused too much lately, and I don't like it.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

My ratings on the episodes so far.

Vulcan Hello - 2.0
Battle at the Binary Stars - 2.0
Context is for Kings - 2.5
Butcher's Knife... - 2.0
Choose Your Pain - 2.5
Lethe - 2.0
Magic to Make... - 1.5
Si Vis Pacem... - 2.5
Into the Forest I Go - 3

So an average of 2.22, which is not that good, but not terrible. Hopefully they will keep up the quality they set with 'Into the Forest' when it returns.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

I smell a bridge burning.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

Everyone arguing about the cloak that uses gravity keeps assuming that the only way to create gravity is by using mass, and that it would have to be a huge mass, akin to a black hole. But in Star Trek they create gravity all the time without having large masses, using artificial gravity generators and so on. So the Klingons don't necessarily have to fly around with their ship covered in black holes. They just need a powerful artificial gravity generator.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Trent

'Hunter said: "During the pullout shot of the Discovery at the end, you can kind of make out a piece of debris at the back that looks like a wrecked D7."'

Just a troll. I went through it frame by frame after what Hunter said, and it's not true. No wreckage of anything other than chunks of metal with no inisignia or anything.

@karatasiospa

'btw the idea that klingon cloaking is the result of a gravitational field that bends light is ridiculous, The only gravitational field that can do that is the one from a black hole. So klingon ships were sarrounded by a black hole?!!!! that's not only ridiculous but also brutally anti-scientific.'

I put that down in my episode notes (yes, like I said I take notes), but I discounted it as some 'futuristic' thing that we don't understand, so I didn't mention it. Who knows what they can do then? Any gravitational field bends light. To bend it enough around a ship it may need to be as strong as a black hole, but I wouldn't think it needs to be that strong necessarily. But it would certainly have to be strong enough to distort space time around the ship. And who says they can't do that? They can warp around the universe, so who knows?

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

Don't go. Not like I think you will, but stick around. You are one of the more interesting posters, even though you are faking it on this particular thread. May I ask why you are so against even watching DIS? Having to pay for it is stupid of course, but since you are such a major ST fan I don't see why you wouldn't pay for it. If you can't afford to watch it for some reason, that's ok, sometimes all of us have to prioritize, but then why comment on it? You are an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a spatial anomaly.

And I still don't understand what Stamets said. 'There's a clearing in the forest. That's how they go.'?

I get the 'Into the forest I go' stuff, but what does the clearing mean? Or 'that's how they go.'? I've been wracking my brain to think of something, but I can't.

Sidenote: Is it 'rack my brain' or 'wrack my brain'? No need to directly comment on this part. :D

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

They better mention her now after all this!!

At least we gave people a primer on the MU. :D

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@MadManMUC

'If I remember the episodes correctly, it was outright stated that they (MU-Archer & Co) not only ended up in the PU, but also went forward in time to the PU-23rd century. They then brought the Defiant _back_ to both the MU and the MU-22nd century, so they covered their continuity arses there.'

No, that's not right. The MU ENT never went to the future or into the PU.

Here's how it all went down. :D

First the Tholians, in the MU, captured the Defiant from the future PU timeline, and brought it back into the past to their MU timeline. Ok?

Then the MU Enterprise went to find the Defiant (which came from the future), in their MU timeline. They got it and started taking over the MU with it and Hoshi became Empress.

Then 100 years later Kirk went to the MU. Now if Discovery goes there, it will be between the two, so 90 years after ENT and 10 years before Kirk.

The Defiant is what is causing all the confusion. Just remember that it was brought to the MU from the future.

I can't believe me wanting to hear someone mention Empress Sato caused so much trouble. lol.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

To simplify...

The MU and PU timelines coincide. The Defiant was only there because it was brought to the MU from the future in the ENT episode from the 'Tholian Web' episode. Remember, the Defiant had nothing to do with Kirk going there in 'Mirror, Mirror'.

Hope that clarifies it a bit. Still sort of confusing I guess.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@MadManMuc

How would mentioning Sato be a violation of canon and continuity? The mirror ENT episode happened 90 years or so before DIS. In that show they said the Defiant was from the future, which is why it was so awesome and beat the crap out of everyone. The fact that the Defiant was there, was due to the Tholians creating some sort of spatial/temporal rift that brought it there from the future PU timeline. The ENT MU was set in the past, 90 years before DIS.

I was wrong when I said the timelines were off by 100 years in my earlier post. I was getting mixed up about what actually happened. :D

Kirk went there 100 years after that happened in the MU timeline. Just as DS9 went to the MU another 100 or so years after that. So if DIS goes it will be 10 years before Kirk went in TOS and 90 years after the ENT episode. Just like the PU timeline.

Whew! That wasn't confusing or anything.

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

I hope that when they get to the mirror universe, that they mention Empress Sato. I know name dropping is sort of lame, but I'd like to hear that. :D

Though the timelines of the MU and the prime universe don't alway's match up. For instance, on ENT the MU was off by over 100 years from the PU.

I don't think that Lorca is going to end up being from the MU, because that would mean he would be off the show basically after that episode, and they would have to get a new captain. Otherwise, it does sort of fit. I'm sticking with the section 31 theory.

FYI, I uploaded some pics of the klingon torture scene to show the klingons involved. I see L'Rell and a couple others, but not Voq.

https://imgur.com/a/Z5awY

^ hopefully it worked :)

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Troy

'I paused it. Just before Lorca says “Let’s go home” he punches in coordinates for the next jump. His screen says
OVERRIDE—LORCA,G
SPORE-JUMP 133–UNKNOWN
Either he input the wrong coordinates by mistake or it was deliberate.'

You beat me too it. I need to type faster I guess. :D

Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Thomas

'I swear, if they go down the "infinite parallel universes to explore" route... I despair. Please, PLEASE don't go down that path Discovery.'

It's 99% certain that they are going to the mirror universe in the next episode, which could be good or bad, we'll see. But I agree, I hope they don't just jump from one AU to another every episode or two. That would ruin the show for me. There is plenty to do in the prime universe, and lots of history to show us there. I don't care what happened in universe #814 or universe #38.

@Galadriel

'There is another thing which I noticed only on second viewing: Immediately before the last, ill-fated jump, Lorca types coordinates into a touchpad, and for half a second you can read the line “Override-Lorca“ on the screen (ca. 43:40). Immediately afterwards, he says “Let’s go home”.'

I noticed that too. More specifically, on the keypad he does this...Hits the 'encrypted' key, then the 'navigation' key, then enters coordinates, then hits 'manual override'. and the display shows all the previous jumps with 'override -Lorca G.' at the bottom. The last jump after that says 'spore-jump 133:--unknown'

What does all that mean? Idk. lol. Does that mean he just entered some random coordinates and went to some random unknown place? Does it mean he purposely went to those coordinates, but the computer doesn't recognize them? Did he go to the mirror universe on purpose or not? Hmmm...

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

'...The funny thing is, the main problem with Discovery is that it isn't groundbreaking *enough*.

The truth is that DSC isn't trying to be "original" or "boldly going" at all. It just tries to be trendy: From the weak logic of the plots to the dark tone to the insubordinate crew to the horribly generic design of the Discovery's bridge..

Oh, and you know what's the funniest thing here is? That the Orville, which is basically a Trek clone, feels a million times fresher and braver and more original than Discovery.'

From these comments it seems as if you had actually seen DIS! (I refuse to call it DSC, btw. I don't know why, so don't ask)

Anyway onto what I thought of the episode.

The Klingons show up at Pahvo because they were called there. And the first thing they are going to do it destroy it and it's antenna. Why? Do they just destroy planets for fun? They had no clue that Starfleet was attempting to use it to detect cloaked ships. And whatever happened to the Pahvans? They called them there to broker peace between the Federation and the Klingons, but they aren't even in the episode. They don't do anything. What was the point of the last episode at all?

The admiral recalls Discovery. Why? Isn't there still a war going on? He's going to take their superweapon out of service, and let a planet be destroyed, so Discovery can work on figuring out how to detect cloaked ships at some starbase? 'The logic is clear' the admiral says. Wut? It isn't to me.

The plan is to transport people over to set up these sensors on the Klingon ship when they decloak. Why not just beam the sensors over if they knew where they were supposed to go? And why not just beam a dozen armed photon torpedoes over whenever a Klingon ship decloaks instead? But that is a failing of all Star Trek shows, not just DIS. Always beaming the wrong things around. :D

Stamets says that even if they do all the spore jumps to collect data, it will still take a long time to compute something that complex, yet Saru and the computer do it in literally five minutes later in the show.

Lorca is pretty adamant that Mike not go along. Why not? He lets her go eventually, but why not let her go in the first place? I don't understand.

Where's the CMO?!?! Why is Culber the only doc they ever show, and why is he doing all the important stuff, while the CMO does what...sits around drinking coffee or something?

How did the Klingon ship not detect two people (even with fake Klingon signatures) beaming aboard, or that the cell was broken into, or the weapons fire? Their sensors finally detect 'sabotage', whatever that means, long after Mike is already on the bridge.

My new Voq/Ash theory. I interpret all the Tyler torture stuff as them (since it shows L'Rell and another Klingon, who I assume is Voq), doing whatever medical stuff they needed to do to put Voq into Tyler's body somehow and brainwash him or whatever, and the sex stuff, as L'Rell having sex with Voq in Tyler's body. If you see what I mean.

And what does Stamets mean when he says 'There's a clearing in the forest. That's how they go.'? The title of the episode references it even. But what's that all about?

I agree though. Best episode so far.

3 stars