Star Wars
Ahsoka
I am not currently reviewing Ahsoka, but you can discuss it below. If I review the show, it will likely be after the fact in a roundup of the season as a whole rather than for individual episodes. Or not at all. It really depends on when I get a chance to watch the show and what I think of it and whether I can work it into my schedule.
Feel free to discuss any or all episodes below. At this time, I do not intend to create individual pages for every episode.
Like this site? Support it by buying Jammer a coffee.
167 comments on this post
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 6:53am (UTC -5)
will you be reviewing 'Ahsoka'?
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 7:43am (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 8:34am (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:19am (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 10:27am (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 1:34pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 2:03pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 2:53pm (UTC -5)
Personally I don't feel as compelled to check out "Ahsoka" as I did for MAND, BBF, OBI and "Andor".
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 3:37pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 4:36pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 6:41pm (UTC -5)
Which, if you are a fan of that series, is a very good thing! 👍
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 7:31pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 10:01pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 11:49pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 8:03am (UTC -5)
Everything is as 2 dimensional as the cartoon Filoni helped create. Which is not to say Rebels didn't have it's moments, just not enough to warrant a basic rehash in live action form.
And how many not even remotely fatal light sabres to the gut have we seen in recent series?
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 9:29am (UTC -5)
Time was when someone impaled you through the gut with a sword you died. Pity because I really disliked that character and her stupid hair.
Agree with others that so far things are underwhelming. It is disappointing that you apparently need to have seen this Rebels TV show to know what the heck is going on.
I of course recognize Thrawn's name as he was the memorable villain of Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy - the only Star Wars novels I read that were worth a damn. But somehow I suspect that having read those books isn't going to be of much help to me.
Right off the bat this whole "lost Grand Admiral" concept perplexes me. "Lost" how? Did someone send him to the phantom zone? If he is in exile, why doesn't he just come back? And why would there be a map showing his location? Who made it and why? Is this like the map to Luke from Force Awakens?
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 9:51am (UTC -5)
I haven't seen Rebels or the Mandalorian, but I did watch The Clone Wars and remember Ahsoka from there. A cursory reading of the Wikipedia entry on Empire explains that Ezra heroically sacrificed himself to take General Thrawn into hyperspace and presumed dead.
So far the costumes and set designs are outstanding. If they can step up the storytelling, this could be a lot of fun.
"how many not even remotely fatal light sabres[sic] to the gut have we seen in recent series?"
Maybe that's why Darth Vader goes for the head when finally slays Obi-Wan. Speaking of which, Hayden Christensen is supposed to reprise Anakin in this series. He will be a happy-go-lucky light side character (and a ghost) by now though.
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 10:58am (UTC -5)
Stuff acting everything looks fake
Yet another map plot
Compare this to her episode of Mandalorian, which a had a tight story, evocative atmosphere, and fantastic action.
One and a half stars
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 12:25pm (UTC -5)
Ray Stevenson shows some promise as a bad guy who still misses the Order because they’re all dead, but unfortunately we know there won’t be any more of him after this show.
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 12:38pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 1:20pm (UTC -5)
I did some homework before watching because I hadn't see all of 'The Clone Wars' or any of 'Rebels'.
So I have and idea what is going on.
This is a series of the valkyries for sure.
Getting a light saber in the gut and surviving was a joke. I was expecting some kind of force healing or some other such nonsense. I guess a routine trip to a nearby hospital can fix about anything. (slaps forehead)
I love Dawson, but this was pretty s-l-o-w. I fell asleep 1/2 way through part two. It really drag.
Andor started the same way, so I'm in for a penny and a pound.
Fingers crossed that this get much better.
2.5 stars?
Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 4:26pm (UTC -5)
Sigh, so many shows, so little time. I can only marvel at Jammers ability to write good reviews as fast as he sometimes does when I on some weeks I have trouble to find the time to just fit viewing them into my schedule.
So far Ahsoka seems indeed to be a show "made by fans for fans" with no time being spent to properly introduce characters or explaining things to people who have not watched Rebels. Wether that is a good idea remains to be seen.
@Jason R. if you don't want to watch Rebels in its entirety consider to search youtube for just the scenes of Thrawn in Rebels. Or don't and tell us how the show works (or doesn't) for someone without that knowledge.
Sat, Aug 26, 2023, 9:27am (UTC -5)
Sat, Aug 26, 2023, 2:51pm (UTC -5)
He directed Episode 4 after all, not just the prequels, nobody directed it for him, and you can't fix things like that in editing. You can improve them, but if the base material shot is bad, you can't edit that into a classic film.
Rant over.
I also liked the two new (dark?) Jedi a lot. Ray Stevenson and even the girl are some of the better performances so far.
Sat, Aug 26, 2023, 2:54pm (UTC -5)
Sat, Aug 26, 2023, 3:52pm (UTC -5)
They can and they did. And there’s plenty of prequel evidence that Lucas is terrible at writing and directing dialogue.
Sat, Aug 26, 2023, 3:56pm (UTC -5)
The "Marcia saved SW/SW was saved in editing" meme is objectively a lie.
Educate yourself.
https://youtu.be/olqVGz6mOVE?si=gWqw3-a-ea3FOW26
And even if the above was all wrong (it isn't), you simply can't conjure an acclaimed, classic film out of bad footage. Just ain't gonna happen.
Hope the Lucas slander at least stops when he dies.
Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 7:36am (UTC -5)
Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 7:37am (UTC -5)
Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 10:04am (UTC -5)
The riff between Ahsoka & Sabine is new—there was no indication of that in the animated series, nor was Sabine the apprentice of Ahsoka. So even fans of the Rebels series are in the dark about this one.
Storywise, I found the pacing fine, but from the standpoint of filming/editing it desperately needed tightening up. And the bubbly, optimistic persona of young Ahsoka from The Clone Wars series is nowhere in sight. They started to tone down the “adult” version Ahsoka when she showed up in the Rebels series, but she was in so few episodes, it didn’t really matter. Dawson’s real life personality is a much better match for the character than this stoic version — and if they want the audience to connect to the character the way the fanboys/ girls did with the animated version, they need to start letting her personality shine through.
Ray Stevenson’s character ( and his sidekick) are new, not carryovers, so it’s anyone’s guess what their fate will be, however we know that since Ray is no longer with us, whatever plans Lucasfilm might have had are scrapped. Which is unfortunate, since they are both turning in engaging performances.
How much of the remaining Rebels cast actually shows up either in person or flashback remains to be seen. The purple alien Zeb had a cameo in the last season of The Mandalorian. Freddie Prinze, Jr voiced the Jedi Kanan Jarrus & Hera’s astromech Chopper, had a C3P0-sequel sidekick named AP-5 that together, brought some levity to the series, but with only 8 episodes and the quest to find Admiral Thrawn & crew mate Ezra, it’s unclear what they’ll have time for.
Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 11:45am (UTC -5)
I watched the first two episodes, and Ahsoka is...fine. My expectations were low, due to the potential to not know who anyone is or their history together (see above) but also the fact that Andor set the standard too high for space swashbuckling fun. Not all SW content has to mimic Prestige TV (TM).
One of my main complaints is that, like the sequels, a lot of the environments feel cold, sterile, and clinical, rather than lived in (a nice exception is Sabine's house, complete with a cat straight out of a Miyazaki film).
Another complaint is that Ahsoka as a character so stoic and unemotional she comes off as dull. I've heard a lot from SW:CW/SW:R fans that she wasn't always like this, and many years have passed and she's dealt with a lot since then, but an actor walks a fine line between aloof and boring.
It doesn't help that all the prosthetics and makeup give her a stiff appearance, like it's hard to move in all that. Compare this to a prosthetic vet like Doug Jones, who can still be fluid no matter what crazy suits you put him in.
Most attempts at humor come off as stilted, another un(?)intentional homage to the prequels, which like Jammer I enjoyed more than most despite their flaws.
All that said, this remains a fun universe to spend time in, so I'm going to stick with this newest live-action SW show, which is all we get until they figure out what kind of film to make after the horrendous Rise of Skywalker.
I'll just conclude that Ray Stevenson (RIP) has by far the most charisma of any character, despite not having much to do. He's followed by his Padawan, played by Ivanna Sakhno. She has the perfect look of a Jedi apprentice gone bad: a bit wired, a bit exhausted, and a touch unhinged.
Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:38pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 5:30pm (UTC -5)
Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 7:22pm (UTC -5)
Sir, I must inform you that you have forsaken Star Trek: The Feature Films.
Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 8:08pm (UTC -5)
Nah, you got it right the first time. Any second-season renewal would likely be in 2025 WITHOUT the writers/actor's strike. With the strikes still underway, a 2026 renewal (if any) looks more likely.
Just my $0.02.
Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 9:47pm (UTC -5)
Though I like lasers, the whole series is on a holding pattern.
We're a long way from the awesome dialogue in episode 3 of Andor:
Luthen Rael : These days will end, Cassian Andor. The way they laugh. The way they push through a crowd. The sound of that voice telling you to stop, to go, to move. Telling you to die. Rings in the ear, doesn't it?
Cassian Andor : Why don't you let me count that money?
Luthen Rael : But they'll think about us soon enough.
Cassian Andor : We should get moving.
Luthen Rael : Soon enough, they'll have something else to listen to.
Cassian Andor : You don't want to get caught with it!
Luthen Rael : Oh, they'd hang me, would they? Take me up Rix Road and hang me in the square. Wouldn't be the first time, would it? Isn't that where they hung your father?
Cassian Andor : [Draws and cocks weapon and points it] Who are you! What is this?
Luthen Rael : [Cassian walks toward Luthen with his gun aimed] I said I know you. I know all about you. And yes, I want the box, and I'll leave with that if it's all I can get. I came looking for something more and I think I found it. I'd like you to come with me.
Cassian Andor : [Cassian walks closer and points his gun in front of Luthen's head] How do you know about me?
Luthen Rael : I was hoping for a more relaxed conversation but you're right, we don't have time. Contrary to what you told me, I doubt that you'll be sticking around. I know you killed two Corpos at Morlana-One, and I know they're coming for you. Seems like such a waste to let them have you. A waste of talent.
Cassian Andor : [Cassian pushes gun between Luthen's eyes and whispers] Who are you?
Luthen Rael : That's the wrong question. The right question is how much time do we have to get out of here.
Cassian Andor : Why would I go anywhere with you?
Luthen Rael : Don't you want to fight these bastards for real?
Cassian Andor : They're so proud of themselves, so fat and satisfied.
Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 1:42am (UTC -5)
Andor was my favorite show of last year overall (other than Severance, though arguably that was the prior year) and probably the best thing Star Wars has ever done. Not fair to compare everything else to it, but what can ya do.
Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 2:02am (UTC -5)
Is it not the same studio?
Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 7:50am (UTC -5)
This ep really highlights the problem with this "streaming show" format.
This is clearly just another long movie stretched out. The dogfight went on far longer than it needed to and far longer than it would have in a movie version of this story.
Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 12:35pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:41am (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 8:25am (UTC -5)
The sequels and some of these shows just make the new republic so useless that it diminishes the struggles of the rebellion and its heros.
And the prequels just make the old republic and the Jedi flawed and plain dumb.
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 8:29am (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 8:35am (UTC -5)
The prequels are written by the same guy as the originals though. Even Lawrence Kasdan has said that "Raiders was my much more my script, Empire was George's" (source is "Skywalking by Dale Pollock" IIRC).
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 11:30am (UTC -5)
Same guy .. yes but not really. When you are a billionaire you are not the same hungry person who is trying to make it work
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 11:40am (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 11:54am (UTC -5)
Kind of lost his edge. The story was ok.. but HIW the story was told was pretty clunky.. with overuse of fake backgrounds and wooden dialogue, the prequels felt more like million dollar stage shows
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 12:11pm (UTC -5)
So, he writes and directs 3 well received films (basically 5, if you've read about the production of Empire and Jedi- Lucas was storyboarding the completed scripts before directors were even hired), then relaxes into a producer role until 1999.
I don't see where the edge loss would come in.
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 1:42pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 7:21pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:45am (UTC -5)
Why? Fans of the show can't have their own thing? Must every thing be for all viewers?
Personally, I'm having a fuckin' blast. :P
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 7:35am (UTC -5)
"You might not see it, but it happened. Look at the documentaries for the prequels."
Exactly. None of us took pleasure in it, quite the opposite of course, but it happened.
Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Ahsoka is, not unexpectedly, very average. Episode 3 doesn't do much to change that. Only 5 eps left and we have no compelling characters to speak of, a half assed plot crawling along at a snail's place and dialogue directly lifted from ANH.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 8:05am (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 8:22am (UTC -5)
Exactly. None of us took pleasure in it, quite the opposite of course, but it happened.]
I think I have presented a compelling argument to the contrary.
Why would a guy with 3 very well received films under his belt (THX, Graffiti, Star Wars), and who then continued to be involved in various well liked projects (including the later 2 SW films that he was the ultimate author of) through *at least* 1989, suddenly in just a few years (production of Phantom Menace began in 1994) just turn into a hack worthy of the level of ridicule the prequels have received? It doesn't make any sense.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 9:42am (UTC -5)
Having 15 minutes to bet on a podracecthatcis upcoming instead if moving the story forward proves the edge was gone. Ot rolling in the grass
You are treating every filmmaker the same for some reason I cannot fathom
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 10:02am (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 10:08am (UTC -5)
Compare prequels where he directs like:
"We'll have them get hit so they can go to Tatppine and meet Anakin. We are at a shop with... ehhhh... used spaceship parts. Anaconda will say "weee" and "woo-hoo ". Hopefully it will work"
Compared to original trilogy George
After Mark Hamil asks if he was going to tell us who Darth Vader , lord of the sith, is. "Mmm... no. He's dressed in black. The back ground is white the music will tell us he's evil and important. People will get it"
Big difference in approaches
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 10:09am (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 10:22am (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 10:43am (UTC -5)
And I get it—streamers need the audience to tune in weekly. But I was a big fan of Star Wars: Rebels, and despite its shortcomings, you got a complete story with a beginning middle & end each week. And the longer stories were told in multi-episode arcs.
Again, there are plenty of serialized shows I like (The Last of Us, Jack Ryan, GOT, Better Call Saul), but both Star Wars & Star Trek really struggle with this kind of storytelling.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 10:56am (UTC -5)
The gawd-awful Jabba’s palace musical number spliced into Jedi alone should indicate some sort of clear descent into madness.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 10:59am (UTC -5)
Not to mention that by the time Empire Strikes Back came around, Lucas was not only the Vince Gilligan of the series, he was also basically (literally?) his own studio head and was funding the movie out of his own pocket. Remember that many directors turned down Empire and Jedi because they knew Lucas would be the "real" backseat director.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 11:00am (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 11:06am (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 11:36am (UTC -5)
As for this show, I hope they find Ezra and Thrawn soon. I did enjoy some of the training and particularly the ship battles of this week's episode, but the plot is moving slow and really feels like a bunch of build up so far.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 11:41am (UTC -5)
I have read that Lucas had shopped around for others to direct those movies but none of his buddies wanted to be known as "the person who ruined Star Wars" so Lucas was stuck directing them himself. So, Lucas knew his own limitations, but he also was under a lot of pressure to expand the SW franchise. We got what we got. The prequels are all serviceable movies, imo.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 12:02pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 12:17pm (UTC -5)
ANH has some jank, whereas TPM is a pretty accomplished production throughout. If anything Attack of the Clones is the weak point. I think he got demoralized from the reception to TPM.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 12:44pm (UTC -5)
None of his buddies wanted to be known as "the person who ruined Star Wars"
J J Abrams "Hold my beer!"
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 1:10pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 1:33pm (UTC -5)
If you want a cogent argument delineating the OT from the prequels, it can be summed up in four words:
jar jar fucking binks.
When one of the core characters of a story achieves the equivalent of having lemon juice squirted in your eye, it’s hard to call it an accomplished production.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 1:55pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 2:40pm (UTC -5)
As for the prequel scripts, AGAIN, George is the same guy who wrote the original film. And the main people who contributed to the script besides him went on to write and direct Howard the Duck, so if anything that's a point in favor of the PT scripts (by the way, Carrie Fisher did passes on the TPM script).
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 2:41pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 2:56pm (UTC -5)
Much better than 15 minutes in TPM talking about how the bet dynamics for the podrace keep changing. . (personally I always thought that they way they should have done it was have the podrace beginning as Qui-Gon enters the city, and have him sense the Force with the kid, and bet everything on him.. this would be much more efficient than spending 15 minutes on ... NOTHING)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 3:00pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 3:04pm (UTC -5)
I guess Filoni lost his edge too
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 3:18pm (UTC -5)
I think it’s possible that Hayden wasn’t a good enough actor to carry the role, but it’s also important to bear in mind that the over-reliance on CGI effects would have made any actor’s job much more difficult. Emoting or reacting in front a green screen just isn’t the same as interacting with things that are actually in the room. So it’s hard to say how big a negative factor casting played in those movies.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 3:25pm (UTC -5)
Prequel bashers would just be crying about how the race lacks "emotional context" or something if they did it your way.
That's the big thing about P
prequel bashing- it is utterly divorced from logic or reason and is an ever shifting, amorphous blob of meaningless nitpicking that, if aimed at any film at all, could be used to make (lame and bad) points about how bad X classic film is.
And as for Vader's intro vs people in the PT, im seeing an issue. In fact, the best character introduction of the series is Episode 3, where it is also wordless. Obi Wan and Anakin flying in sync into the battle, showing their bond.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 3:26pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 3:40pm (UTC -5)
"As for the prequel scripts, AGAIN, George is the same guy who wrote the original film."
You have to do some research about how ANH's script finally came to be what it became. If George had used the script he originally wrote (a) it would have been terrible, and (b) he would have been sued into oblivion. His famous buddies (like Coppola) fixed his script in many rewrite iterations, and of course Marcia fixed it too. The biggest loss for the prequels was the lack of Marcia; in other words, no one present to tell him when something in the script was stupid.
@ Idh2023,
"I think it’s possible that Hayden wasn’t a good enough actor to carry the role, but it’s also important to bear in mind that the over-reliance on CGI effects would have made any actor’s job much more difficult."
Compare Hayden in AotC and Robert Downey Jr in the Marvel films. Both have tons of green screen. You can see the difference between a raw talent who needs to be in the right hands to succeed, like Hayden, and a refined pro like Downey, who will be great no matter what, and in fact will fix bad scripts and be good regardless, like he did in Iron Man. I'm not talking smack about Hayden, but he couldn't handle this gig. The blame goes to whoever invited him to do it. He did have some good moments, so there's a glimmer of his potential. But...well, just tell me how many people you know who fell in love with is character after Ep II?? That's his job, to make that happen.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:02pm (UTC -5)
See the YT video i linked above. It debunks the Marcia myth.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:04pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:42pm (UTC -5)
I’m not attempting a defense of Hayden’s acting chops, I’d feel uncomfortable arguing that position even from a devil’s advocate standpoint, my main point is that I think the poor kid was set up to fail by having the story serve the effects rather than having the effects serve the story. A better comparison than Robert Downey jr would be to contrast the unseasoned mark hamill to the somewhat raw Hayden. Even in scenes where hamill shows his rough edges, the fact that he’s generally interacting with real scenery, such as a swampy garbage compactor full of junk, lends an intrinsically genuine element to his work because he was, well, actually in the room. It’s possible Hayden could have been assisted by more tactile engagement with the stuff around him which might have helped cover some of his acting deficiencies. Personally, I find the CGI usage to be the main, tho certainly not the only, drawback in the prequel trilogy.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:45pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:47pm (UTC -5)
(It's a short so It's under a minute)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:51pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 4:55pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 5:13pm (UTC -5)
Take as contrast the scene in revenge of the sith where general grevious unveils his multiple lightsabers to obi-wan. Ewan mcgregor is supposed to be standing maybe ten feet away from an intimidating display of lethal danger, and yet, at that high drama moment, his reaction is virtually nonexistent. No step back, no noticeable tensing up, he just remained still. This wasn’t mcgregor’s fault, it was the result of him staring at a greenscreen and being told what to react to, or seeing a rough approximation of what to react to in the form of a stand in. The final product is a flat, unsubtle moment lacking the nuance of human emotion. The effects of that era just weren’t up to snuff to play such a central role in the movies. I’ll take puppets.
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 5:39pm (UTC -5)
But projecting backgrounds on a green screen, like the prequels did, can take me put of a movie because it rarely feels like Qui Gon and Obi Wan are actually in that location.
For comparison, when Eowyn exits the Golden Hall in The Two Towers film and she walked outside and she is actually standing outside that castle on a mountain and her hair is blowing in the wind... wow! She believes she is there because
. Well... she actually is. And the audience believes it too.
If they geenscreened that shot it might have worked but not as effectively
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 7:56pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 9:12pm (UTC -5)
Yeah, who are these people who waste time talking about these ridiculous 'science fiction' stories? We're all going to die someday anyway.
Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 1:41am (UTC -5)
Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 1:55am (UTC -5)
Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 4:58am (UTC -5)
Agree. Jammer reviewing this series will be about as pointless as trying to convince a prequel trilogy lover that they're more shit than good.
Or vice versa of course.
Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 11:44am (UTC -5)
I mean, in episode 2, while in the hospital room, a bomb is about to go off from the droid's head, and Ahsoka is like "I don't we think we have a minute" as if she's about to sleep. Like.. really? Same thing with the "battle" in episode 3.. they don't really act like they are in any danger.. they bring nothing to the proceedings as far as acting goes.
Rosario looks soooooo friggin bored playing this role, like she could literally fall asleep at any moment, with her arms folded of course
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 1:55am (UTC -5)
You can watch a recap to get up to speed on the characters as I have, but it still doesn't help invest you in the characters.
Setting the scene, introducing the characters, providing the viewer with reasons to care - these are the things that apparently Star Wars is now above. In the right hands, we could have had a solid intro that would engage Rebels and non-Rebels fans alike.
This is objectively bad.
I wouldn't be so quick to assume the poor reception is from disenfranchised fans who haven't watched Rebels. On the contrary, I think it's actually the Rebels fans by-and-large who are throwing their critical faculties out the window.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 1:33pm (UTC -5)
Ewan's reaction was perfect/worked/was unproblematic. This is what I mean, it's like these critiques come from some alternate reality.
When Grevious revealed his sabers, Obi Wan gave a cocky/exasperated smirk that worked perfectly.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 1:46pm (UTC -5)
I mean, LotR was chock full of greenscreen and it often looked great. Frodo's hair whipping around on Mt. Doom is still affecting even with the visible matte line/whatever in his hair.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 2:23pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 2:28pm (UTC -5)
filmmaking is creating the illusion that it's all of a piece, even though it's not
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 2:56pm (UTC -5)
If you can stomach Avengers Endgame's visuals, for example, that was a much more "total CG greenscreen do it in post" film than the PT.
Now would George have gone full Endgame if the tech was there? Maybe. But that's a different argument.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 3:07pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 3:08pm (UTC -5)
It's just a different approach to SFX
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 3:10pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 3:14pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 3:18pm (UTC -5)
Also, this might just be me, I prefer SW to be gritty , used.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 3:24pm (UTC -5)
Overall though, mixing up the techniques a bit is often more successful.
It's not a hard and fast rule.. for example, transformers are generally just going to be CGI.
BUT when creating environments or set pieces, I find that using a multimedia of techniques works best
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 3:42pm (UTC -5)
Ewan stood in everything from sets to real life locations to cgi backdrops to miniature backdrops.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 4:03pm (UTC -5)
Sure
Not really sure what you are trying to say at this point.
All I can tell yoi is that the prequels feel a bit on the fake side. A bit too clean..
That's in spite of the fact that there are moments that look ok. The pit where the terminate shoves Anakin's shoulder and the actor moves shish shoulder appropriately before it ties him to the pole .. doesn't really make me believe the termite is really there.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 4:17pm (UTC -5)
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 6:03pm (UTC -5)
I don’t think you quite grasp what I’m referring to. Simple facial expressions are only part of what makes an emotion believable, there are various other communicative aspects to how people express themselves, another language of sorts tied to body language and highly subtle reactions that are extremely difficult to convey against the relative vacuum of a greenscreen. Even the most talented actors have difficulty working to something that’s not really there or in an approximation of what the actual idea is supposed to be. If you need people to articulate to you that human interaction is a complicated, deeply nuanced endeavor I’m not sure how it’d be possible for anyone to explain to you why they couldn’t immerse themselves in the prequel trilogy. It boils down to the idea that details matter, and even almost imperceptible details missing can be and will be noticed by an audience. CGI can be used very effectively to “clean up” a scene, some of the OT updates is evidence of that, but actual characters or entire set pieces being animated results in a sterile, flat feel that it’s pretty evident many people perceive.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 7:07pm (UTC -5)
I was talking about how even practical effects in the prequels somehow look like the cgi effects.
They shoot them often as background plates.
Them they shoot the characters separately in front of a greenscreem
Then after cleaning up all the elements in post they place both practical and cgi just shots behind the actors. It all kind of looks cgi at that point. Cg was used to give everything a clean even look.
Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 7:32pm (UTC -5)
Mon, Sep 4, 2023, 4:00am (UTC -5)
Ok, but Ewan Mcgregors hair never looked better.
Mon, Sep 4, 2023, 6:16pm (UTC -5)
"With episode 3 of Ahsoka we're well over an hour and a half into this series... yet it's not nearly as compelling as the first five minutes of "the Jedi " episode of the Mandalorian episode where she was featured."
I couldn't agree more.
"I guess Filoni lost his edge too"
I'm hoping the slow burn works here like it did in Andor.
Mon, Sep 4, 2023, 9:22pm (UTC -5)
I'm hoping
Mon, Sep 4, 2023, 9:48pm (UTC -5)
Even pairing Ezra and Sabine romantically might be something... the whole brother/ sister thing is just as boring as everything else
Tue, Sep 5, 2023, 3:54am (UTC -5)
Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 8:41am (UTC -5)
Still silly, and leaves you with loads of continuity questions, but better.
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 6:41am (UTC -5)
Not so sure about Anniken's CGI deaged face though.
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 7:32am (UTC -5)
Was Sabine holding a wooden pistol prop to destroy the map?
Everything that would matter to the story emotionally is not even in this series, from Ezra to the mysterious dimension.
And instead we have pretty flat dialogue.
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 11:07am (UTC -5)
1. We have yet to be introduced to Thrawn, nor do we know WHY he is considered such a threat. Currently he is in another Galaxy even far, farther away, with no Imperial fleet or resources. When we last saw him in Rebels, Ezra & the space whales had him on his heels, so I’d expect to meet a half-crazed madman living on a derelict starcruiser lookin’ like Jeremiah Johnson.
2. Ahsoka gets transported into “The World Between Worlds”, a concept & place which didn’t make a whole lot of sense when it cropped up in “Rebels” and will prolly make even less sense to those who never watched the series.
3. The non-Rebels audience STILL doesn’t know why Ezra is so important to either Ahsoka or Sabine (no flashbacks to establish their relationships) and to be honest, since Rosario Dawson has been relegated to walking around with her arms folded delivering her dialogue in a stoic manner, I will say it again: the show really should’ve been called Star Wars: Sabine”.
4. With all the deepfakes we have seen in the last few years (some of the best by amateurs on YouTube) there was no reason to see such a poor job of de-aging Hayden Christensen except for lack of time or care.
5. Ray Stevenson, even with his limited screen time, is the only character, for me, that stands out and gives us a nuanced enough of a performance to come off more than just a “Villain-of-the-Week.”
6. ICYMI: For whatever reason, Disney/LFL is going to be having theatrical screenings of Episode 5 in major cities worldwide on Sept 12 ahead of the ep dropping on Disney+. They are calling it a MidSeason Fan Celebration event.
Unless the running time is at least an hour, seems a lot of effort for a half-hour-ish tv ep.
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 11:18am (UTC -5)
Agreed on all points.
Any emotional connections is from off screen material and the actors are not good enough to sell the idea that ANYTHING drives them
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 1:00pm (UTC -5)
Your point about the emotional connection is 100% spot on.
Apart from the hardcore fans, I don’t see this series becoming a hit with general audiences like “ The Mandalorian” or even receiving the critical acclaim of “Andor”.
The show has potential, but like many projects of the streaming-era, it’s being squandered by trying to stretch a thin story to seemingly fulfill a quota of episodes.
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 2:03pm (UTC -5)
I agree. Episode 3 was just a couple of scenes to get us to the next chapter. It's like they were begging the sfx guys ti make a few more shots to that space chase to get it up to a 30 minute episode.
I care more about what drives the characters. That us the heart of the best Star Wars stories.
Luke defied his teachers and decided to save his father rather than kill him because he's his FATHER and we can all relate to that.
While Ezra is a friend.. the actors seem so detached here and I don't feel what the writing seems to want me to feel
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 6:23pm (UTC -5)
Unless Morgan Elsbeth knows Thrawn is standing by with a new Alien Horde Army waiting for the hyperspace ring to transport them back to the Home Galaxy, I’m not sure what the high stakes are. They just aren’t there.
I’m looking forward to the inevitable fan-edit of this series that whittles it down to a watchable 2 hours ;)
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 7:06pm (UTC -5)
Thu, Sep 7, 2023, 9:47pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 3:02pm (UTC -5)
I suspect Ezra will be angry at Sabine for making the sacrifice she did to save him. Then again, Ezra could go a long way to help Sabine with her Jedi training.
Some great lightsabers fights this week, but the titular character still seems too weak. How will Ahsoka be able to step into the spotlight again from here?
Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 11:03pm (UTC -5)
Thumbs up to pretty much everything you guys said.
Sat, Sep 9, 2023, 5:53pm (UTC -5)
I have hopes that next week will kick it into high gear as I was big fan of Rebels and they had some great stories. But The World Between Worlds stuff is confusing, and I’m afraid it’s going to be used as shortcut to get us where we need to be storywise. And as much as fans love Thrawn from the Timothy Zahn novels, he never really posed much of a threat to the Rebels main characters in the animated series. They always got away while he seethed, “Next time they won’t be so lucky…” Unless they actually kill off a main character, it’s just going to be a repeat of the Rebels finale, only this time Ezra stays. Filoni has pulled off great eps before ( the final duel between Maul & Kenobi), I just hope he’s got something radical planned out here too.
Tue, Sep 12, 2023, 12:40pm (UTC -5)
-- Cassian Andor, nicely summarizing why I hate this show
Tue, Sep 12, 2023, 10:43pm (UTC -5)
This ep was all kinds of confusing, even for stalwart fans of Rebels like myself. First, there's waaay too much unexplained magic in the World Between Worlds. Then we get Ahsoka's mind-meld with the space whales, who may or may not take them to Sabine in their MOUTH? Holy Kenobi, that was a bridge too far for me.
Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 1:52am (UTC -5)
Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 8:48am (UTC -5)
Agreed.
That episode jumped the whale.
Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 8:59pm (UTC -5)
As mentioned above, it would have been great to see Ezra and Thrawn. Perhaps Filoni was worried they'd hog too much time from Ahsoka? Thrawn might just be a McGuffin like Luke was in TFA.
Anyway, I'm interested to know what Ashoka learned from Anakin here. Was her problem not choosing a side? Or that she just didn't care enough to win? The subject is brought up this episode but isn't really answered.
Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 9:53am (UTC -5)
Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 6:05pm (UTC -5)
Fri, Sep 15, 2023, 2:59am (UTC -5)
In addition to what's been said:
- Mary Winstead just isn't working for me. In a series of mostly average acting, she is standing out as duller than dishwater.
- Ray Stevenson is not in this episode.
- The scenes on the planet are painfully slow.
- Ahsoka learns to choose life in the scenes with Anakin, involving numerous, unnecessary light saber duels. When had she given up on life again? I mean, I get that she was stern and bland, but I didn't think she had given up.
- Some of the stuff about Jedi turning into warriors rather than peacekeepers was ok and Christensen did fine (certainly better than his work from 20 years ago).
- Surviving underwater for, what days? is crazier than Leia Mary Poppins-ing her way in from space in TLJ.
- They're not just ripping off old Star Wars they're also harvesting LOTR for material now.
- I know, I know, Star Wars is basically for kids but the Space Whales jumping between galaxies was too much for me. Why didn't they talk to the purrgil x number of years ago when Ezra first disappeared? For that matter, where's Luke, Leia... Ok I know the answer to this, but it just really stands out as stupid and disrespectful.
Anyway, I had some hopes for this episode but spent more time scoffing than I wanted to. Hopefully they can finish it off without a cliffhanger.
Fri, Sep 15, 2023, 6:17pm (UTC -5)
Ahsoka is a show about absolutely nothing. There are no themes, no world-building (what political factions exist in the galaxy as the threat of Thrawn looms? We know nothing), no character arcs and no interactions that stand on their own (rather than relying on what happened in the cartoons). Dialogues describe what is happening on screen, with no subtext. It is the death of storytelling. There is only plot: We go from point A to point B, with every step of that boring journey meticulously shown to us.
As a reader of Timothy Zahn's novels, I will also add that the writers severely misunderstand what makes Thrawn's character interesting. Thrawn isn't a MacGuffin threat to unveil in the second act; Thrawn is a riff on Sherlock Holmes and the deductive (inductive) process. Yes, he keeps some carts close to his chest to have some fun reveal at the end, but the whole point of the character is that we follow his reasoning from the very beginning and understand the fully logical way in which he develops his plans. He's not a magical world-ending Thanos villain, he's a thinker that is able to optimize mundane, military resources to one-up the heroes. If you are going to film a show with Thrawn as the main antagonist, we the audience need to be clued into his schemes from the very beginning, and almost feel sympathy towards him. Yet his inflexible belief in knowledge and his intellectual infallibility is also his undoing, as a single datapoint that he is unaware of (in the books, the fact that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker) makes his reasoning faulty. This is a key flaw that Zahn himself seems to have forgotten in later renditions of Thrawn, and not for the better.
To summarize this long rant: I feel about David Filoni the same way I feel about Terry Matalas. So many people see them as franchise saviors, when I just hope they will stay as far away from this material as possible.
Sat, Sep 16, 2023, 1:29am (UTC -5)
All valid points and I agree that Ahsoka having to learn about choosing between life or death seemed arbitrary. We know from the end of The Clone Wars series that she became disenchanted with the Jedi after falsely being accused of murder & actually left the Order. By the time Star Wars Rebels came around, she had grown up and was assisting in the Rebellion under the name Fulcrum. So what I really want to know ( and what could’ve been explored in the World Between Worlds scenes) was what was she doing when Luke &Co. we’re taking on Vader & Palpatine in episodes IV, V, & VI!
@Dreubarik
Both Matalas & Filoni have shown themselves to be competent storytellers in the past, so I wonder how much of the problem with these shows stems from some combination of streaming-era budget/time limitations, coupled with the switch from anthology-based to serial-based storytelling, to just running out of ideas or some X factor or edict coming from the studio. There’s always been bad television, but there seems to be MORE of it in these well-trodden franchises for fear of alienating their fan base and being criticized for trying something new, or blasted for retreading the same old tropes & characters.
Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 8:07am (UTC -5)
I agree although as a fan of the Zahn novels I think Thrawn (depicted correctly) could be a great villain. The trouble is there is no real reason the heroes should see him as some kind of galaxy level threat unless he has a fleet of star destroyers or something with him. But after all these years do they even know he is alive? Heck maybe he retired and doesn't want to come back.
But that said I did enjoy the latest episode. Anakin's "test" of Ahsoka make next to no sense to me but was entertaining nonetheless. And the space whale sequence both surprised me and delighted me on a visual level. Also I am a sucker for extra galactic voyages into the truly unknown and while I am guessing they will be dropping the ball in this, I have at least some hope that we will get to see something amazing wherever it is they end up, something to that hopefully transcends the Star Wars aesthetic. If they just end up on some planet with green skinned aliens I will be sorely disappointed because another galaxy should be anything but mundane. This is where the show should dip its toe into something really cosmic, strange and even terrifying.
Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 10:00pm (UTC -5)
I wholeheartedly agree & am keeping my fingers crossed for a truly alien galaxy, where either Thrawn is either completely outfitted in new superior alien tech or a wild decaying starcruiser held together by bailing wire, & his own madness.
Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 8:59am (UTC -5)
This show is.. blech
Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 9:09pm (UTC -5)
Are they changing this to it being outright magic because…..that’s just latest in a long line of sucky ideas that ever sucked.
Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 9:42pm (UTC -5)
Wtf
Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 6:00am (UTC -5)
Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 10:01am (UTC -5)
We finally get to see both Thrawn & Ezra in this ep. I would've loved to have gotten where we are in the story now by episode 3. Ray Stevenson & Lars Mikkelson provide most of the energy on-screen at this point, and it's a welcome change to the slooow page turning we've gotten from this script so far.
Since they have carried over a few actors who voiced their characters in the animated series, I feel they missed an opportunity to bring back Taylor Gray who voiced Ezra. He has aged the right amount, and has the sort of edgy, scruffy look they went for with the new actor. Taylor is an on-camera actor, so the transition should have been an easy one.
I enjoyed the look of Thrawn's dilapidated star cruiser, and the junked out armor on his Troopers. His crew appear to be loading bodies or something from the catacombs, and with Nightsisters on board, I'm concerned we're moving into some kind of "Walking Dead" scenario.With only 2 eps left, I don't see them wrapping this up as a stand alone miniseries as I hoped. Ray Stevenson's ex-Jedi obviously has an ulterior motive neither Morgan or Thrawn is aware of, but how that will play out (now that, sadly, this wonderful actor has died) remains to be seen.
Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 1:48pm (UTC -5)
Wtf”
All three are variables he hadn’t accounted for, they are also inconsequential. Rather than order their deaths and potentially risk unnecessary losses, he sent them out to fight amongst themselves whilst he focuses on what he needs to do to get back.
Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 2:15pm (UTC -5)
The "Mando" stuff is very cheap and gimmicky nothing like Episodes 1 to 6 of the Star Wars saga. It comes across even more as bad once you see Andor and what a Star Wars show COULD and SHOULD be like. I.e. like the movies - space opera epics. The "Mandoverse" (sigh) all leads to the atrocious Disney sequels. They truly are mediocre at best and it is truly sad that some people appear to worship these low quality shows like sunshine comes out their backside.
As for Ahsoka, it is typical Filoni nonsense. His stuff in "TCW" and "Rebels" was childish writing often openly contradicting the movies (e.g. chips ruining the clones, cartoonish villains with no nuance, Grievous always running away and hardly being any threat at all, immediately no clones after ROTS, Inquisitors, Maul). Ahsoka herself can be a great character, though she shouldn't be the Padawan of Anakin Skywalker since she is very obviously NOT in the movies. Her being alive by this point in time after ROTJ is even worse. And of course ALL OF THIS LEADS TO THE DISNEY SEQUELS! It's like knowing you have a stop to step off the luxury train at Station 6. After that, the lunatics take over the locomotive and entertainment. The only stop after that is off the edge of a cliff into an abyss of despair with no hope of return called Station 7 TFA. All this Mandoverse stuff is the cheap gimmicky entertainment of Filoni and his jesters. If you choose to board, you have (pardon the pun) "No way out". If you choose the quick and easy path, you will become an agent of evil. Or you have "One way out" and have some standards at Happy Ending Station 6.
The Ahsoka show should have been Live action Clone Wars with her as the Padawan of a Jedi other than Anakin. And managed by someone competent (NOT FIloni). There are so many brilliant Star Wars comics from the George Lucas era of superb stories revolving around the Clone Wars over 3 years. You could have even had episodes with Anakin and Obi Wan in there if you wanted (Battle of Jabiim etc). Have Expanded Universe writers like James Luceno or Andor's Tony Gilroy as the creative lead.
This show seems to basically be another season of "Rebels" in live action making it virtually impossible to pick up for anyone who hasn't seen that show (as well as countless TCW episodes). It is typical Filoni style storytelling and NOT how the Star Wars movies worked. It's typical jangle the keys, mystery boxes, flashy action with quite cheap looking CGI, flashbacks (which are more interesting than whatever the story is meant to be showing again that a show should just be made about the prequel era or prior), no clear direction and seemingly no good writing.
It's not like the actors are bad. The lady playing Sabine can certainly act in other franchises and looks hot. Dawson can also act in other movies, but appears monotone here. Mary Elisabeth Winstead can certainly act in all her other work and very well. Yet the director here has scenes of characters talking slowly and staring at each other. There doesn't appear to be any setup, so anyone who hasn't seen Rebels, how on Earth would you know what is going on or who anyone at all is? If the situation is so serious, then in addition, wouldn't the Jedi (i.e. LUKE SKYWALKER) be involved!!
This show doesn't have good storytelling. It's just following the Mandoverse modus operandi of jangle some keys to set up other shows without telling any story, or certainly not a story that makes sense or worth telling - and by worth meaning worthy of being Star Wars. Star Wars is clearly missing George Lucas. At the very least there were talented EU writers (Luceno, Zahn to name just two) who were great writers. Tony Gilroy and his team also have great writers. All of those greats respected George, respected the franchise and have serious writing talent. Filoni is just a hack. The only thing that could make his shows any worse would be JJ directing them.
Lightsaber stabs apparently don't kill now. Damn. Qui Gon Jinn anyone? Did Filoni not see what a lightsaber did to the Blast door in the opening scenes of TPM? You're telling me a lightsaber going through a torso wouldn't be fatal? Seriously?
Even if you can forget that ALL of this crap is going to lead to the Disney sequels, the characters from all sides all seem to behave in the most illogical way possible. The premise itself makes no sense. An ancient map leading to a present day character. Assassin droids who announce their self destruct sequence and also hang about after they complete their mission to retrieve an item. If JJ was involved in this, he would have had an even bigger Starkiller base showing at the end of Episode 5 when Ahsoka is pulled out of the water, just randomly appearing and destroying a planet of randoms. They gave us big belly Stormtroopers in TFA, now they give us big belly Thrawn. Only a few episodes left and it already looks like it's just going to end so that you have no clear story in this series and have to watch a Mandoverse movie. A movie that will probably make no sense whatsoever to anyone who hasn't seen a coterie of various shows - animated and live action written by a coterie of various hacks. It's all so cartoonish.
Whatever cargo is being loaded onto Thrawn's ship, they just decided to do so now, not earlier all this time? The music also felt really cheap and out of place. Anakin (great sword fighting from Hayden, credit where credit is due for that) interacting with Ahsoka to give the lesson of "live or die" made little sense. Fair play to the young Ahsoka actor who at least showed some emotions/passion unlike any of the main characters in the show (which is bizarre given they literally have got a good cast here UNLIKE the Disney sequels).
I cannot believe Star Wars has been reduced to the Disney sequels and these nonsensical shows. Imagine a world where Star Wars was Episodes 1 to 6, Rogue One, Andor, George's intended Episodes 7 to 9 (which would have stuck with the family saga, Darth Talon, the Whills, reunifying the galaxy with a single 9 episode storyline) with a happily ever after, a live action Clone Wars political thriller by the Andor team, live movies of James Luceno's Labyrinth of Evil, Darth Plageuis & Rise of Darth Vader, the Underworld show George planned, live action KOTOR movies and an animated/CGI version of the Zahn's Thrawn trilogy. Preserving the prestige as a timeless brand and making far more money than these hopeless Disney sequels/Filoni ever did or ever will (which the original Star Wars movie did when adjusting for inflation).
No Rey. No Filoniverse. Basically... no crap. But no, instead we have the Filoniverse*. And it seems Star Wars dies... with thunderous applause by a small amount of people.
After Andor Season 2, it looks like Star Wars will go back to having nothing new of quality worth turning up for. The original 6 episode saga will still be timeless. I respect Rogue One and Andor for honouring Lucas' galaxy. As for the rest, what a truly sad ending for perhaps the best franchise of all time.
*And more Rey movies.... Goodness gracious, WTF doesn't even cut it. Utterly laughable. Disney and the critics are completely out of touch with reality. And still don't get the saga was a family space opera.
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 6:40am (UTC -5)
My observation is rhetorical. There is always a way to rationalize anything. My point is overall the show us pedantic storytelling, lacking punch and excitement. This is Star Wars.. instead of staging an interesting rescue or escape, the writer just let's her go and we have to excuse it in order to get through it
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 7:45am (UTC -5)
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 8:09am (UTC -5)
It also stands out that the Empire's spirit remains intact (we notice a bit of pride the soldiers carry in tradition and ceremony despite their armor and entire ship torn to rubble) which contrasts with the New Republic which is overfocused on bureaucracy.
I'm not much of a fan of Ezra's casting so far, but maybe he'll look more the part with a clean shave. At least Sabine's quest to find Ezra was cute and sparked memories of their adventures in Rebels.
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 8:11am (UTC -5)
It is entirely consistent with Thrawn’s modus operandi.
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 8:20am (UTC -5)
Please note that the majority of people tuning in, Thrawn isn't even a character yet. Most people tuning in have nit watched the after school animations that led to this.
Anyhow, I found his introduction underwhelming.
Luthen feels like a smarter and more cunning Chara
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 9:03am (UTC -5)
"We've always known what Star Wars looks like. With the Andor show... we know what it means."
Exactly. Whereas with the Disney sequels/Filoniverse/Mandoverse, they neither look like Star Wars nor have any of its soul/meaning. In fact, they don't even look like Star Wars in many cases and the viewer will more often than not wonder what is the meaning of any of it.
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:15am (UTC -5)
Yes.. even the lightsaber fights, which was the hallmark of excitement, now seem tedious and boring, I groan as I watch then in the new shows
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 12:07pm (UTC -5)
Exactly. That's what I was saying with my initial comment above (which is as long as a Review I guess!).
Andor is quality and what Star Wars should and can be like. Star Wars Episodes 1 to 6 of the Saga (which are ultimately the only definitive story the original creator/author intended other than his three films which we never got), the lightsaber battles mean something. There is actually a story.
These other shows (Filoniverse/Disneyverse) are just utterly utterly mediocre. Senseless and aimless.
If Tony Gilroy and his team and the likes of James Luceno or Jonathan Nolan were the Heads of the Writing room, Star Wars would be in a much much better place. The franchise is missing the creative vision of George Lucas who started it and enough people who respect (and care about) what he created.
The Disney sequels effectively have to be expunged, obliterated, totally destroyed from the canon. Shows should focus on events before the "happily ever after" of ROTJ (whether that is years, or thousands of years before) and be helmed by people who have writing talent and who give a damn about what they're doing with respect to the franchise they are being given custodianship of to handle with their story. Jangling the keys here and there isn't telling a story let alone destroying pre-established canon in the saga.
I would love to see an Andor style thriller set just before TPM (or even thousands of years before), or during the Clone Wars helmed by the Andor/Rogue One team. I'll always love "Star Wars", but Star Wars doesn't seem to exist anymore and has been replaced by whatever the hell this Filoniverse/Disneyverse is.
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 12:19pm (UTC -5)
I really loved reading both of your long posts. I agreed which is why I didn't say anything.
I'll take Andor Season 2 as my swan song, bookend to star wars. The other things they seem to be cooking up don't excite me the way the franchise used to.
Andor has "therefore" storytelling.. not "and then" plotting, and that means most of the story elements seem inevitable as opposed to random.. inevitable because different characters.. more like their different worldviews..all clash. And instead of feeling at all contrived, every turn I the story seemed earned.
Love how Nemik, the true believer, didn't sleep the night before thr Alsahni heist. Cassian, who was just in it for his take, slept well. But in the prison, the night before the escape, he was awake all night. Finally a case to fight for.. and he depending on those around him
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 3:10pm (UTC -5)
Thanks. Just wrote what I thought. It's heartening to see there are other people of good taste and standards out there!
For sure, I'm looking forward to Andor Season 2. I wish we were getting 3 seasons of it overall (I understand the logic of not being able to go on for many years given the actors playing younger versions of themselves than the anthology movie), but I'm grateful that we have 2 and that the production team are great writers who have an overall outline (in this case leading right into Rogue One) and who clearly seem to put a lot of effort into the final product. Fully agreed on the other shows which just don't feel like Star Wars.
That's a great analogy on "therefore" versus "and then". It's a case of quality versus "and then" over and over again where there isn't any plot, nor logic, nor feeling to what's happening.
Yes, the realism of Andor was awesome. The Aldhani heist was 100% thriller with brilliant dialogue, suspense, payoff and motivations coupled with tense moments and truly beautiful cinematography. It's movie level quality. Nemik's speeches were also really powerful. Similarly, even the Empire at the ISB provides their own rationale which makes sense. And of course Luthen's "What do I sacrifice? .... EVERYTHING!" speech was really well done. The prison escape great action and Cassian's subsequent remembering of his father and mother, really gave the feels along with him then listening to Nemik's words in the final episode.
I'd also say another aspect of the show was the music. The soundtrack/the composer really managed to create feeling. Characters had a purpose, motivations and logically fit into the story and universe.
Likewise, I will take Andor Season 2 as a fitting tribute and part of Star Wars. I can only hope that one day, such a team takes over and gives us such real Star Wars again. May the Force be with us all.
Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 3:39pm (UTC -5)
Thank you for that compliment. I don't have a lot to say save that I agree with all points I consider it a long movie and it's one of my favorite of speculative fiction in a long time, star wars or not. It's so dramatically sounded, and layered enough to give me something to think.
Oh the music? I listen to the score whole driving. It underscores the scenes perfectly
The diagetic music is fantastic as well.. like the fact that it really sounds like a community marching band and a real funeral. Normally I'd be skeptical, but using the theme of the show in the March is brilliant.
Also Bittel's score is just perfect in other places, like when the prisoners are climbing to escape.
It's a show that I will always hold close to me
Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 1:23pm (UTC -5)
100% agreed. Andor is like a high quality epic long movie. A spy thriller in Star Wars.
The music is sublime for sure. The Past/Present, Mirror, Morning After (with Luthen laughing at what they pulled off), Manifesto, Vault and absolutely the Eulogy really fits the scene. The way the music just fits the rousing speech being given. Cassian remembering his father. The main theme music of the show is really well utilised to convey the right sense of emotion at the time just like the movies. From the funeral, to climbing to freedom in the prison and "red alert" music of the Airbase.
Fully agreed on it being a great show. Bittel's score makes it all the more legendary.
Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 4:01pm (UTC -5)
I think there will be quite a few people who may find it boring now.. one day will try it with a different mindset and appreciate it later
Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 4:10pm (UTC -5)
I love listening to score while driving or writing. In addition to the prices you mentioned, I like Luthen of Coruscabt, where Luthen makes his transformation in episode 4.
It's a great score because it underscores the scenes
Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 4:53pm (UTC -5)
This might be my exit ramp for Star Wars. Like some of the above posters, I'm going to enjoy the next season of Andor when it comes out, but everything else in Disney's era has left me unsatisfied, save The Last Jedi, parts of Rogue One, and I'd reasonably argue s01-02 of Mando (right until CGI Luke shows up).
I won't watch two full series of animated children's television just to have a firm grasp on what's happening in a live action IP universe.
I won't pretend the swordfight choreography, once a highmark of this franchise (even when ridiculous), has been turned into something rote.
I won't keep watching stories that regurgitate the same time period over and over and over, increasingly stretching credibility by treading on ideas and characters and story we already know while bending itself into pretzels trying to connect dots on previous films/shows (how many times are we going to question where Luke is, or Leia, or even Han?). Which mainly leads me to...
I (and we) shouldn't have to suffer through more risk-adverse brand management masquerading as storytelling. Besides Andor, the last true "swing" Lucasfilm/Disney took with this franchise was The Last Jedi, a flawed, thrilling film that managed to reset everything, actually "say" something, and set up the third film to be whatever it wanted to be... Which was absolutely necessary, as JJ's choices in TFA are a mix of rehash, handwaves, open questions, and genuinely terrible worldbuilding. When a vocal minority of SW fans went rabid, Disney panicked, brought JJ back, and pretty much ruined their IP for years to come with ROS ("Somehow Palpatine..." Indeed).
It's heartbreaking. Growing up, Star Trek made me think (with a few tearjerker moments), but Star Wars made me FEEL, and imagine, and dream of being a Jedi someday. Now all I see is another portfolio of content that feeds the Disney+ beast, with no true visionary at the helm (Filoni, as someone said above, might be a superfan, but he's no Lucas, and his live action stuff is absolutely flat). Star Trek, sadly, is suffering a similar fate over at Paramount+.
If they won't start new IPs, these creative corporate behemoths should at least give us original stories within the IP, and/or hand the keys over to genuinely-talented writers who will take risks with their stories. If they can't even manage that... I, someone who writes scripts for a living, might end up throwing in the towel and devoting all my "media" time to reading, where originality is alive and well, and doesn't require a monthly subscription to mediocrity.
Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 8:26pm (UTC -5)
That's a good phrase, I'm going to steal that.
Submit a comment
◄ Section Index