Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

“Charades”

3 stars.

Air date: 7/13/2023
Written by Kathryn Lyn & Henry Alonso Myers
Directed by Jordan Canning

Review Text

While traveling through the Vulcan system, Spock and Chapel — with much tension already present between them because of their simmering and suppressed feelings about each other — take a shuttle to study the Kerkhovian moon, home of the mysterious and rarely encountered energy beings called the Kerkhovians. The promise of valuable scientific discovery may be at hand, but instead, an encounter with a rupture in space-time causes the shuttle to crash. The Kerkhovians intervene and repair the shuttle and heal Spock and Chapel, returning them to their state before the crash — except they make one crucial error and "repair" the half-human, half-Vulcan Spock by making him completely human.

"Charades" is an entertaining sci-fi high-concept comedy/soap opera with enough substance to provide some character insights amid the low-key but sometimes obvious humor. It strikes the right balance in not taking itself too seriously while still taking the characters' plights just seriously enough. Admittedly, the expanded run time of 60 minutes might be stretching some of the material a little thin.

The premise allows for a fun (albeit not uproarious) montage where we see Spock — now subject to the full intensity of human emotions without the Vulcan ability to control them — experiencing situations in a completely new way: He understands and laughs uncontrollably at jokes, can't get enough delicious bacon, is enraged by Sam Kirk's casual sloppiness, and feels confused embarrassment over the feelings La'an unexpectedly stirs in his loins. (Just imagine what might happen around Christine.) Ethan Peck gets to have some fun here, and the results are amusing and he is always credible. The jokes aren't hilarious, but they're worth some smiles.

The personal stakes are elevated by the fact that Spock is scheduled for a crucial engagement dinner with T'Pring (Gia Sandhu) and her parents, at which delicate Vulcan ceremonial procedures are to take place under the critical eye of T'Pring's mother, T'Pril (Elora Patniak), and her considerably less critical pushover of a father, Sevet (Michael Benyaer). Now being human, and with the medical DNA reversal procedure not likely to be available before the dinner happens, Spock finds himself in the worst possible condition to perform delicate Vulcan rituals.

As they say, hijinks ensue. Fortunately, the hijinks are restrained, making this a mild comedy of manners. Spock's mother Amanda (Mia Kirshner) is also on hand, and when she discovers the truth about Spock's sudden transformation into a human, she agrees to teach him how to fake his way through. Surprisingly, Amanda's human insights into Vulcan society are a key strength to the story being told here. We realize how difficult navigating Vulcan society has been for her, and through this realization, Spock gains a new understanding and appreciation for his mother and what she has done for him. (At the end of the episode, Spock's expression of gratitude to his mother and his regret that he has not expressed such sentiments before, is a highlight of the story.)

Ultimately, we go through the whole charade of the dinner ceremony (which eventually has Pike suggesting an actual game of charades as a stalling technique), which would have been hard enough with T'Pril's harsh judgments hanging over every single moment. I mean, this woman is a piece of work, insulting Spock and Amanda for their human failings at every possible moment and making no bones about her disapproval of this planned marriage. I mean, T'Pril lays into Spock, big time. The story wisely has T'Pring just as on-edge and out of patience with her mother's judgments as everyone else. But everyone has to just sit and endure it, in order to gain the required seal of approval. (Pike's reaction shots throughout are priceless; Anson Mount does a great job comically conveying his exasperation or relief without words.)

In the end, when Spock unveils his transformation to speak to the resilience of his human side and that of his mother, it's a nice moment — and also telling that it has so little to do with T'Pring. I also appreciated that T'Pring's problem with all of this was not that Spock undertook this charade, but that he didn't think to trust her with the truth. As a result of this newfound uncertainty, she and Spock decide to take a break and step back from the engagement. (Whether or not this is supposed to be the end for Spock and T'Pring until "Amok Time," I don't know and I guess we'll find out eventually, but it opens the door to what happens at the end of the episode.)

In a parallel plot, Chapel desperately looks for the cure to restore Spock to his former self before the DNA changes set in permanently, but she doesn't have the means to do it without the help of the Kerkhovians, so she takes a shuttle with Ortegas and Uhura back into the anomaly to contact them. This provides the sci-fi and VFX portion of the story, as we travel into the Kerkhovians' interdimensional realm and make contact. This also provides us the love triangle and soap opera angle, as making contact with the Kerkhovians requires Chapel to admit that she has feelings for Spock that might go beyond mere friendship — and, indeed, right before the shuttle crash, Spock had diverted the shields to save Chapel at the possible cost of his own life. The irony for Christine is that restoring Spock might make it less likely that he would return her feelings — but not restoring Spock would deny the essence of who he is and the reason she holds the feelings she does.

"Charades" is a Chapel story almost as much as a Spock story. In addition to her crucial role in contacting the Kerkhovians and finding the cure, the story also details her earlier hopeless attempts to satisfy the terse and inflexible Vulcan administrator who is selecting candidates for a two-month research fellowship Chapel has applied for. The interview doesn't go well; the administrator is much more interested in black-and-white academic prerequisites than lived experiences. One wonders why an interview was even required since Chapel's credentials were all that mattered. In a way, this mirrors Spock's experience with T'Pril, who is more interested in whether Spock checks the required boxes than how he has lived as a Starfleet officer.

At the end, after Spock's true Vulcan self has been restored, and the Vulcan dinner has been successfully navigated, and T'Pring and Spock take a break from their engagement, the episode reaches its big moment where Spock and Christine kiss. It works on its rom-com level, and it's a risk that could prove intriguingly messy, like Spock and Uhura in the Kelvin films. Whether this tracks adequately with TOS canon is an open question (Chapel's crush on Spock in TOS was implied only a handful of times), but I can't say it's a question that hugely matters to me since this can easily be hand-waved a number of ways. "Charades" carves out what it wants to do and achieves it successfully.

Previous episode: Among the Lotus Eaters
Next episode: Lost in Translation

Like this site? Support it by buying Jammer a coffee.

◄ Season Index

Comment Section

234 comments on this post

    Haven't watched the episode yet, just came to check if Leif had complained here about the lack of strange or new worlds yet. Nothing so far... now *that* is a strange new world!

    @Norvo Lol I don't know if that is a compliment or an insult? I hope I don't annoy you but I was about to say: NOOO WHY this could've been the first REAL STAR TREK EPISODE of the season other than the courtroom Una one..are you or anyone else not disappointed this didnfpcus more on exploring the interdimensional aliens and the biology and psychology and their "realm"? That should've been the main plot and the spock "feelings" stuff should've been the subplot!! So many QUESTIONS thus episode should've explored..what were those fluctuating crystal like formations in the tunnel? Were these aliens like humans? Do they have sex? Or fart? What's it like to fart or have sex in interdimensional.space??Are they able to exist in subspace like the Prophets from DS9 that exist in space but not time so not interdimensional like these aliens? Why are they called by colors but all look a faint Grey blue to us? What do they eat in they eat? WBY didn't we EXPLORE them more??!

    "This is irregular. A complaint outside the response period." - those aliens are Germans. 😄

    Great episode. Just the right amount of whackiness to not make it too ludicrous. And it wasn't just comedy, at its core this episode had a human heart - no pun intended - with Spock connecting to his mother's burden.

    One thing that I realized, once again, is that I don't really know what Una's job on the Enterprise really is. She's barely doing anything. You'd expect her to accompany the away team at the end of the episode (or did they steal the shuttle, now that they know how to steal the Enterprise). For an XO she's barely noticeable. This isn't a complaint about this episode, it's a thread that runs throughout the series.

    To end on a positive note: can those costume designers finally get an award please? The outfits on this show are always so stunning.

    More questions about the aliens: Why was blue called blue and yellow called yellow? Are the aliens made purely of energy or some kind of matter still? If so what kind of matter?? How do they communicate with each other or reproduce, if they do? Do they eat or consume anything? Can they exist in normall spaces? How did they evolve exactly from corporeal form? Could they be related to or even be the same species from the Enterprise Season 2 episode The Crossing??! So many QUESTIONS QUESTIONS!! And I needed ANSWERS ANSWERS!! Why did the episode focus on the humany wumany Spock feelings crap..it was funny and entertaining especially the charades bit was hilarious but that should've been the subplot or make this a two part episode..

    Loved it. Fun, goofy and a lot of heart. The casting is perfect - not a weak link to be found.

    4/4

    I really liked this for the most - the comic timing, pacing, and acting was quite strong. It's probably the strongest script this season. However, I once again have serious issues with the depiction of Vulcans on this show. They're routinely petty, pedantic, pretentious, patronizing, rude, vindictive, judgemental, and antagonistic. The writing shows real disdain for Vulcan culture and philosophy, which is continually cast in an unflattering light next to human emotionalism. It's completely off base - Vulcans are aloof and dedicated to reason/rationality over emotionalism, sure, but this doesn't (and shouldn't) come at the expense of their compassion, altruism, humility, and courtesy. Vulcans are, in many ways, the embodiment of Roddenberry's ideals and their characterisation spits on both.

    Very much enjoyed this episode. Jess Bush as Chapel continues to be both charming and believable, and the episode offers some substance on identity, acculturation, and prejudice. This series, I may dare say, might also be the genuinely funniest in the entire franchise.

    With that said, the bend toward lighthearted comedy might detract/hamper deeper ruminations on any potential messages. Compare, for example, this, another Spock hijinks episode, with writers' treatment of B'Elanna Torres in 'Faces,' 'Barge of the Dead,' and 'Lineage.' There just seems to be a hesitancy on the part of the writers, at times, to tackle topics or matters with greater earnestness.

    Still, lots to enjoy, and I'm here for 'Spapel.' And favourite little moment: the crew teaching Spock how to speak like a Vulcan. Terrific stuff.

    Another fun episode wrapped around an emotional core. While Chapel is central to the episode, the value comes from Spock and his mother. I’m pleasantly surprised they didn’t overdo the whacky humor on this episode.

    So I guess Spock is on a break right now? He still moved on pretty quickly, though.

    It's pretty clear they're keeping the broad strokes from TOS while feeling very free to color outside the lines whenever they want to. Maybe they secretly enjoying trolling the subset of fans who will erupt in rage and make youtube videos ranting about it.

    @UESPA_Sputnik Even though Una is nominally the third member of the show's power trio they really do love to sideline her. She's always being held captive, getting hurt, being left on the ship, etc.

    Fascinating.

    For 80% of its running time, this episode was a fun but insubstantial trifle. Then it actually hit some emotional resonance with Spock's appreciation for his mother.

    Not sure how I felt about the very end though. As far as continuity goes, why aren't they treating this show as a different timeline, as with the whole "Kelvin" deal in the newer movies? That would certainly make the final kiss (implied to be leading into a horizontal tango) easier to swallow.

    I enjoyed the detail of how T'Pring's father loves Pike's cooking, but is cowed by his wife into rejecting it.

    Three stars.

    @B-boy: I get what you are saying about Vulcan culture and the depiction of it here. But doesn't this all go back to "Amok Time"? According to Wikipedia, this was the only depiction of the planet Vulcan on TOS, and I didn't see a lot of "compassion, altruism, humility, and courtesy" or "the embodiment of Roddenberry's ideals" in T'Pring's manipulation or the whole fight-to-the-death-with-your-best-friend bit of business. It was all so brutal and revolting, McCoy had to fake Kirk's death just to get them out of that mess in one piece.

    So I think if you really want Vulcan culture to be what you describe, you should regret that episode more than anything. And in fact, I'd say they have been dialling it back from there ever since.

    In less deft hands, this script could have easily just been a farce - like the odious Profit and Lace from Deep Space Nine - or a meh snoozer like You Are Cordially Invited.

    Fortunately, this episode is actually trying to do a great deal more than simply being a lighthearted Trek comedy involving a "body swap" of sorts and a wedding. It largely dispenses with the fish-out-of-water comedy aspects in its third act, pivoting to real emotional turmoil for Spock, Chapel, T'Pring, and Amanda. It touches on deep and universal aspects of relationships, both familial and romantic. It succeeds, astonishingly, at both being one of the better Trek comedies and being a decent character study.

    I have a hard time thinking of anything wrong with this episode. The choice to have the noncorporeal aliens talk like customer service representatives was...a choice...but it helped add levity to an episode where first contact was not the driving force. I thought the charades scene itself was a bit painful to watch, but that's more because of my own personal bias against "cringe comedy" - the scene was effective at getting me to feel vicarious embarrassment, so it worked.

    I'm a bit hesitant at the idea that Spock and Chapel will now begin an open affair, if only because it means Spock is going to dump her at some point (or maybe she dumps him for Korby first), but I'm strapped in for the ride.

    Four stars.

    Am I crazy, or did the episode end with Spock and Chapel about to do the wet sloppy?

    Great episode. Funny, emotional, and nice character development. Ethan Peck is a baller.

    Ortegas was better. Not as gratingly annoying.

    Ethan’s acting was perfection. Found exactly the right balance.

    Una continues to be a little invisible. Hard to give everyone time in an ensemble show.

    Chapel is superb.

    Pike, tbh wasn’t impressed by him this episode. He was awkward and formulaic. He’s starting to be one note.

    La’an is a rockstar even in snippets.

    Overall was an ok episode. At the halfway point of s2 I think the first season was more intriguing. This season is good but not incredible.

    Uhura is doing decently

    Spock is now a polygamist.

    Just gone through the last trek episode.For those saying this show takes place in a new timeline, i will say no. it still is a rough prequel to tos.

    The issue now is that, have they taken it too far, where chapel now looks much worse than her tos self.

    Spock did not break things off permanently with tpring, so what now? i already see the running jokes here on trek bss and twitter that this is like ross and rachel, been on a break. I think we will have Peck memes as the new ross geller.

    However Chapel right now is the official the Side-Chick. Almost like a mistress. she and spock are in an open affair while he is still engaged. Also for Spock, this is the worst romance arc he has had. he is juggling two women at the same time? Even Kirk, won't have gone this far and Kirk is suppose to be a ladies man.

    For all this show talk of progress and writing women to be strong and not just be eye candy for guys to rescue, it turns out that they made chapel have an affair with a man, who did not permanently break it off from tpring. Also it shows Chapel self esteem is low and will only get lower till she becomes her TOS self. this is worse than when she tired to give spock a love portion in the animation.

    This story line of spock/chapel/tpring is the worst we have gotten in nu trek and that is why when it comes to prequel I dont advise they dwell too much on a canon story.

    SNW would have been awesome had spock, chapel and tpring all been new characters but played by the same actors.

    Dammit @James Smith, you beat me to it! Fun With DNA™, indeed. (Jammer's always been good at defining these tropes. I still chuckle thinking about the Voyager Action Insert™)

    That bit of plot silliness aside, there was quite a lot to enjoy about this one. Aside from succeeding at the most basic requirement of a comedy - making me laugh, which it did - it also very surprisingly managed to unearth a lot of great character moments for Spock, Chapel and Amanda.

    One of the things I always appreciated about poor unloved ENT was its willingness to make Vulcans unlikeable phonies, masking their superiority complex behind supposed "logic", and this episode was an excellent example of how that can be used to great dramatic effect. My favourite episodes of ENT were the ones that showed for a species committed to a single ideal, there is actually a great deal of variety between individuals and a lot of room for differing opinions. ("Fallen Hero", "Shadows of P'Jem", the Syrannite arc) T'Pring's mother is a great character in that tradition.

    Even the callback to the ENT concept of "Vulcans think humans stink" was great. They've dealt with it by medicating it away! I loved it.

    The comedy was too broad in some aspects - I could've done with La'an spelling out for us that he's basically a teenager, for instance - but on the whole, a well-done effort and a cut above "Spock Amok", an episode I also liked.

    An engaging hour of television that actually succeeds to move the characters forward. If this had been TNG, Voyager, Enterprise or even DS9 the status quo would have been restored the second Spock's miracle DNA cure was administered.

    Speaking of Voyager: the episode where Tuvok forgets how to be Vulcan is called Riddles... and this one is called Charades. Coincidence? Maybe. I guess that's one reason to have Pike suggest that particular party game...

    I would argue that once again turning the Spock/T'Pring storyline into a comedy of errors/farce isn't doing their relationship or Vulcan culture any favors. But getting to see Ethan Peck stretch his acting muscles is so much fun, I can forgive it.

    Una and Captain Pike were once again largely inconsequential to the main story, which is so unlike (Nu)Trek but I'm glad we get to see the rest of the cast shine. They're an ensemble and they make it work.

    Even Dr. M'Benga who once again takes to heart the 168th Rule of Acquisition: Whisper your way to success.

    I liked the episode. However, something is bothering me.
    Maybe I got this all wrong, but aren't Vulcans, at their core, MORE emotional than humans? It's their training with sophisticated emotional and cognitive techniques which allows them to supress their strong emotions and stay logical.

    Wouldn't Human Spock be even colder than original Spock?

    @ Govert:

    Not sure I follow your, erm, logic there. But that might also be a flaw in the writing of the episode. The Kerkhovians 'fixed' Spock by removing the Vulcan from his genetic make up. So, he's a 100 percent human now, fine.

    But that shouldn't have deleted the memories of his Vulcan upbringing and training to suppress his emotions. He still knows who he is, who he is engaged to... In other words: he shouldn't have forgotten how to be Vulcan at all.

    But I guess the shock of having no emotional blocks in place is what made him so volatile and insecure. He was feeling... and he liked it.

    @Norvo

    But isn't the point that the emotional blocks should have remained in place, since they aren't genetic but rather a part of his upbringing?

    govert is right. Logically, becoming human should make Spock less emotional.

    @Token

    In the end genetics is what the Trek writers say it is... At a certain point, you just point at Genesis or Treshold, shrug and walk away. But if I had to have a crack at giving an in-universe explanation:

    Anyone can learn how to suppress their emotions, but the Vulcan's telepathic nature might be a key element to why their race was so succesful at it. Without access to his telepathy, Spock was left on his own and that's an emotionally traumatizing event in any situation.

    I think the right approach would have been to have Spock be less emotional at first. Then hit him with the realization that T'Pring wouldn't accept him as a human, leading to panic and self doubt. But the writers seem to have had a specific metaphor in mind here.

    Folks, including @ThatERguy for the criticism, need to remember that the filming for this season was right after Anson Mount's kid was born. That is why he's barely in the first 3 episodes, and why even in the others he's not brought his best performance.

    Give him a break. I think he's earned enough good will with his stellar performance in the role in season 1 and s2 of Disco.

    I feel a bit conflicted about this episode.

    On the one hand, I enjoyed the episode and thought it was funny and touching. The story was interesting.

    On the other hand, I am uneasy with the continuing portrayal of Spock as an almost special needs adolescent wrestling with his emotions with that constantly being played for laughs. Again, to reiterate, I generally enjoyed the episode, but I just don't want to see too much more of it. I do understand that when he unleashed his emotions in Season 1, he had difficulty containing them again, and I do understand that he has turned human in this episode. I get all that. But I hope that they don't keep banging on this drum, especially for easy laughs.

    I enjoyed the scene where he began sticking up for his mother after the ritual dinner and some of the scenes between him and Chapel. I did, however, feel that the scene with Chapel, Singh, and Uhura talking to Blue and Yellow were a bit too young adult/"CW" in both dialogue and occasionally, mannerisms.

    I have been enjoying "SNW" in general, but I do have some of my red lights flashing. Their portrayal of Spock wrestling with emotions is one. I also would prefer that they don't have too many episodes with Kirk, as I want this cast to shine on their own without having to live in Kirk's shadow both in the series and canonically.

    @Sevana

    Wouldn't conservative Vulcans still consider humans to be less sophisticated and burdened by their unregulated emotions? A halfbreed like Spock would be considered the subject of pity and derision.

    "Spock Acts Out Of Character For 48 Minutes"

    This was abysmal. Long, talky, drawn-out, Saturday Morning Cartoon plot with a lot of maudlin therapy-speak.

    I've been a booster for SNW Season 2 so far, I've liked what I've been seeing. This is on the level of The Animated Series' more dry fare. It doesn't stack up.

    The plot beats can be seen coming a mile away, and the montage sequence where Spock is learning about human feelings goes on Waaay too long. I don't want to see Spock acting like a lunatic and screaming into a pillow, thanks.

    A fun episode. I feel like we've seen a lot of "Spock must decide his human side is an asset rather than hindrance to him" stories from Star Trek, whether that's in canon material or the expanded fiction. In some ways this episode was a reverse of that: a human Spock must decide his Vulcan side is an asset. I liked the flip.

    T'Pring continues to be an excellent character excellently cast, in my opinion. The nuance the actress brings to the role impresses me every time she appears. Also, whoever it was who mentioned her dress above: yes, that is some extremely impressive costuming.

    We know of course that Spock does not end up with either T'Pring or Chapel. Still I find this little love triangle storyline compelling. It is being well performed by all involved.

    . . .

    I know by now that some people will never warm to a Star Trek series where Pike treats a first contact with an alien race so casually with the words he chooses to use rather than solemnly and formally like Picard would. Or where Chapel, Uhura, and Ortegas, when they go to visit the extradimensional aliens, speak in a manner like (to paraphrase) "ummm, hi, could you like, maybe help us out here please?" rather than making a reasoned appeal like Picard, or yelling at the godlike beings to fix their mistake like Kirk. I personally am not bothered. These are people for whom these scenarios are commonplace so they are not always terribly impressed on any given day with making a first contact or being in a different dimension of space. We can make the argument that they always should be and they should never approach such a situation in that way. That the show should always portray them acting with the awe and responsibility such a situation demands. That's fair. Me, I just feel that would have been pretty dour and broken the tone of this episode. I've watched enough Star Trek that I'm okay with watching a crew behave like this once in a while, especially in a "comedy" episode where the stakes are low.

    I'm also fine with things like Ortegas saying "hold onto your butts" as she takes the shuttle in. Sure, it isn't very "future human," and it is very "now" language in terms of sensibilities. I do understand people who lament this. I wouldn't write it myself, but it doesn't ruin things for me.

    . . .

    Strange New Worlds seems to want to be the "fun" Star Trek series more often than not. I'm okay with that. It is. It's doing it successfully as far as I'm concerned. And it doesn't stop the show from veering into serious drama when it wants to.

    . . .

    It is well established at this point that a lot of Vulcans are dicks. When you think about it, it is only logical they would be. Guess what? A lot of humans are dicks too. Vulcan training and culture would take someone who is naturally a bit of a dick and elevate those tendencies.

    One of the things I like most about this episode was how obvious it was that T'Pring's father is a disappointment and embarrassment to her mother. He hardly even controlled his emotions with his enthusiasm for Pike's food. He's a bit of a buffoon by Vulcan standards. And her mother is the way she is to in reaction to that, to counterbalance it. Such a display told us everything we need to know about the family dynamics at play and everything we need to know about why T'Pring's mother is the way she is and why this ceremony being perfect was so critically important to Spock and T'Pring's future and how T'Pring is perfectly cognizant of all this and exasperated by it but of course could never outright vocalize it. And THAT'S good writing, as far as I'm concerned.

    . . .

    Chapel does a lot of really advanced science for someone who's only a nurse, huh?

    . . .

    I think Una's overall lack of presence in the show is starting to become a problem. It is standing out. The scene where La'an and Spock had a talk alone, and he became attracted to her, could just as easily have been given to Una and as I was watching it I was wondering why it wasn't her having it with him. I guess the reason is the writers love La'an as much as the audience does.

    . . .

    Uhura got some stuff to do.

    Maybe with only ten episodes a season they cannot do a "true ensemble" show the way they would want to. Some of the characters are "main" characters who need to be serviced as they are the ones considered the main draw for the show or the ones the writers are most interested in. So we have two "Spock" episodes in these first five, for example. And the other characters will get one here and there as room allows.

    Season 2 was filmed before season 1 had even premiered. I hope that with the success of the show episode counts might go up to twelve or even thirteen episodes a season from here out like Discovery (talk about a show that being serialized doesn't need that many episodes a season yet has them, when SNW as an episodic show could really use them but doesn't have them . . . such a shame.).

    @mal01

    Don’t get me wrong I really do love Pike and think he’s a great captain and perfectly cast. I also am very happy he doesn’t have the Michael Burnham treatment where everything revolves around him.

    I think in this episode his performance wasn’t his best but that’s probably the writing. And it doesn’t need to be his best bc he’s not the focus. I’m in no way giving up on the show. I thought the first 3 episodes were 4,4,3.5

    It’s impossible to hit it out of the park every week.

    I’m also not one of these people that thinks the show needs to be held hostage to going to “strange new worlds” every week. The moniker is a convenient cute name for the series but let’s not get carried away.

    I want the writers to tell the stories they want to tell!

    Overall I think the episode was decent. Pecks acting was incredible. I see why the cannon nazis might be upset at this episode but I want to see where this all goes. Hopefully for 5 more seasons! At least for 3 more!

    “Only a nurse.”

    Those are some fighting words! I know many ER nurses I work with every night who might bristle at that! Finally nurses get some respect instead of being glorified maids and waitresses! More nurse elevation!

    I’m not sure that everyone here and in the fandom realizes or has come to terms with the fact that the vast majority of this cast in coming seasons will have to start dropping like flies.

    Spockel will be no more.
    La’an? Gone
    Ortegas? Gone
    Pelia? Gone.
    MBenga? Gone.
    Una? Probably banished.

    Maybe they will send them to the future Lmfao and cast them on disco era Starfleet Academy. That would be an upgrade for the 32nd century for sure.

    @Norvo so I noticed you suspiciously haven't responded to my response to you.would you agree with my poonts about the aliens or you don't care lol Just wondering..agsin hope I don't annoy you or anyone..such a shame to waste the first true aliens of the season I think..

    @ThatERGuy

    Oh, you know what I mean with the nurse comment. Of course I respect nurses. Chapel's devising experimental biochemical treatments. Nurses don't get to do that in the 21st century.

    I would also assume most of the cast/crew will move on to other assignments/opportunities at the end of Pike's last five year mission. Just like Pike himself. No need for dramatic deaths. There may be some, but it's by no means a fait accompli.

    aahnnnn.... so Spock becoming human makes him ignorant about Vulcan rituals, and the Enterprise crew has to teach him how to act like a vulcan...?

    And we are like... supposed to care about this whole marriage affair that we know can't change because of TOS Pon Farr episode...?

    And this super connection and chemistry between Spock and Chapel is based on what, exactly...? (I mean, TOS suggested something about them, but since they didn't made entire arcs about it, the lack of more substance was ok, but if SNW wants to really work this, shouldn't they've built something more?)


    I don't know. Maybe I just didn't get the point of what I just watched.
    But for now I'm rating this one: MOST ILLOGICAL

    @JeffriesTube

    I have a sneaking suspicion they might Hemmerize everyone 🫣

    @Leif

    Oh, I don't mind it either way. But when you consistently post a variation of the same comment week after week, people take notice.

    @Norvo: "Wouldn't conservative Vulcans still consider humans to be less sophisticated and burdened by their unregulated emotions? A halfbreed like Spock would be considered the subject of pity and derision."

    Yes, I would think so. I don't believe I said anything that would contradict that, did I? But yes, that has been canonically how Spock was treated.

    @ThatERGuy

    Pike has been one-note since mid S1. He's a walking self-help book, ready with the inclusive or inspirational quip at just the right moment. While his entire crew acts like unprofessional, emotionally expressive children, Pike manages to do everything except function as a leader.

    I'm starting to get the sneaky feeling that SNW is intended to be YA fiction. The over-reliance on humor, the remedial treatment of Spock, and ugh, the godforsaken high-school level romance? I'm sorry, but when fans start talking "shipping" and developing silly words that combine two names, the standard of adult, intelligent story-telling is in tatters.

    Looks like most of the old guard Trekkies who gave SNW S1 a chance have long fled the Alamo. I only recognize a few names here from Picard S3, and maybe one or two from SNW S1.

    I suppose I can be the resident hater, if you will have me. I mean someone has to tease Jeffrey's Tube, right? :)

    @Leif

    I interpret you questions as being posed to the collective group (perhaps I am wrong?). As a member of that group, I have a question for you: Had the eoisode covered all of your questions about how the aliens masticate, expectorate, flatulate, and fornicate, how long do you suppose the episode’s run time would have been? If, say, nine hours’ worth of television were required to literalize your questions, would you believe that expenditure to have been worth it, regardless of whether you thought the rest of the story to be terrible?

    Also, I have a question that I hope will serve as an anti-move-the-goalposts-measure. With respect, can you identify an episode of Star Trek-any episode from any show would suffice-that met or meets your criteria for sufficient depiction of a strange and/or new world?

    What about people who agree with Nicholas Meyer’s comment, “Art thrives on restrictions” (meaning, as he has stated, leaving certain things to the imagination can sometimes can result in better art)- are they always, completely, and ineluctably, wrong?
    Stanley Ku Rick refused to give visual form to the aliens in “2001” because he felt trying to visualize them would be impossible. Was his belief objectively wrong?
    Thanks for any time you put into sharing your thoughts - seriously.

    Classic Trek Comedy of Errors. Spock's MIL is such a piece of work.
    "Don't test me Kirk! I will break you!"
    I think the director was channeling that "woman screaming at the cat" meme. 😆

    So far (early days) this comment section would be a good one to show someone who wants to see what intelligent, thoughtful discussion can look like. Nice job, everyone!

    @Leif does have a singular focus, but it's still about something far broader and more fundamental to the show's identity as expressed in its title than is the other flavor of monomania we've seen in the comments lately. I almost admire him having his (reasonably defensible) hobbyhorse.

    You guys are right, the costuming on that dress was perfection. Who deserves credit, anyone know the name?

    @Vader: "i already see the running jokes here on trek bss and twitter that this is like ross and rachel, been on a break."

    100% on Ross's side in that, and to this day it actively makes me angry, the (apparently commonly held) notion that a woman can tell a guy she wants a "break" or to "pull back", and she's supposed to be able to keep him in reserve, on the practice squad or whatever, while she mulls her options. (Or maybe only if she's super hot?) To hell with that!!

    @Norvo: "Anyone can learn how to suppress their emotions, but the Vulcan's telepathic nature might be a key element to why their race was so succesful at it. Without access to his telepathy, Spock was left on his own and that's an emotionally traumatizing event in any situation."

    Nice, I like this.

    @SevanaOfNine: "I am uneasy with the continuing portrayal of Spock as an almost special needs adolescent wrestling with his emotions with that constantly being played for laughs. Again, to reiterate, I generally enjoyed the episode, but I just don't want to see too much more of it. I do understand that when he unleashed his emotions in Season 1, he had difficulty containing them again, and I do understand that he has turned human in this episode. I get all that. But I hope that they don't keep banging on this drum, especially for easy laughs."

    Point taken. I hadn't thought about it that way, but you raise a valid concern. Part of what was so appealing about Spock was his competence and determined diligence. He can definitely play a key role in a comedic scene, but that was always best effected with a raise of an eyebrow followed by a very dry but devastating crack aimed at McCoy.

    Fair point also about veering into YA/CW territory when all the single ladies were hanging out. And about the danger of letting Kirk overshadow Pike.

    @Jeffreys Tube: "Chapel does a lot of really advanced science for someone who's only a nurse, huh?"

    Yeah, this is the seams showing of trying to update the sensibilities of a Sixties show. They are stuck having to call her "Nurse Chapel" but in 21st century showrunning terms she is Doctor (Professor?) Chapel, Eminent Scientist.

    https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-snw/s2/charades.php#comment-108721

    That's what discussion is for.

    You're too high on yourself and lore.

    Bernadette Croft is a genius at wardrobe design, T'Pring's dress (that she debated with her mother for 3 hours lol) is amazing. Same with the set designers and graphic artists. This show is a visual masterpiece.
    Just like Prodigy. I hope Netflix or someone picks up Prodigy. (yeah, I tried to find some way to segue that in there)

    *gown And I'm the type of person who hardly notices that stuff (except for Game of Thrones, House of Dragon and other fantasy shows where the outfits are elaborate).

    "Yeah, this is the seams showing of trying to update the sensibilities of a Sixties show. They are stuck having to call her "Nurse Chapel" but in 21st century showrunning terms she is Doctor (Professor?) Chapel, Eminent Scientist."

    I can accept that. It helps.

    Let's say nurse is her title or position on the Enterprise, not necessarily her qualifications.

    Ethan Peck, Jess Bush and Gia Sandhu were great in this. It was like a classic Greek comedy of errors.

    Continuing last weeks trend of solid but not outstanding. I am more than fine with that. Let this series take its time instead of throwing too much at the wall. The aliens of the week gimmick was shallow and clearly just a quick way to force examining spock ‘s human side. Also not to get deep into this but the person who was going on and on in the previous episode’s thread about Uhura- the actress who plays this new Uhura is prettier than Nichelle Nichols. Full stop. And I have no problem so far with what they’ve done with the Uhura character. I don’t see how anyone could begin to have an argument for bringing back her wearing that tiny skirt that was laughable even for the 1960’s so all in all I just do not see what that posters big problem with her is.

    This episode does a good job of developing the Chapel character. She’s no longer defined by her relationship with Spock, even though that’s a big part of the episode. The problem is this is the second episode that treats Spock as a source of comedy, which threatens to turn the character into a joke. I also thought Ethan Peck overdid it with his performance, though not nearly as annoying as Brent Spiner was in Generations. As for the ending, the Spock/Chapel shippers should be thrilled. But for Spock to hook up with Chapel right after breaking up with T’Pring reflects poorly on the character. Also, Chapel doesn’t seem to mind that another person got hurt. Still, it’ll be interesting to see what the writers do with this pairing. Peck and Bush have great chemistry.

    @B-Boy

    I'm sorry, but this must be the first Vulcan-centric episode of Trek you've ever seen you're surprised that Vulcans are being any of the adjectives you described lol

    "Petty, pedantic, pretentious, patronizing, rude, vindictive, judgemental, and antagonistic" describes pretty much your average Vulcan. I mean just rewatch DS9's 'Take Me Out To the Holosuit' and tell me Cpt. Solok isnt everything you describe right there, extremely thinly veiled under Vulcan ideologies.

    I loved this ep. Maybe my favorite. I love the cast and I love Jess Bush. It was a great blend of comedy and character exploration. I thought the actress who played Amanda was great, and as others have mentioned, T’Pring is a layered, interesting character here.

    I’ve watched every ep of Star Trek ever produced, and rewatched most of them during the Pandemic. I love them all for that they are, but SNW just feels like the episodic Trek I grew up with (TNG, etc). Sometimes there are goofy aliens of the week, but the cast here is just so great. I really enjoy the one-off adventures and the fact that there isn’t some galaxy ending threat every season, like Discovery, or even Picard S3.

    Some of my favorite TNG eps were the random ones that were life aboard a starship. I’m glad that SNW is recapturing some of that. The characterization of TOS folks isn’t bothering me - television sensibilities were different in the sixties and slavish devotion to the canon here would be counterproductive I think. I for one found the end of this where Spock realized it was hard for a human to love a Vulcan was amazing and informed his feelings for Chapel. I find the pairing really interesting and well done, an exploration of something they could only ever hint at in TOS. The fact that we know how it has to turn out doesn’t make it less fun for me to watch, and I think the actors are nailing it.

    I continue to be grateful that SNW got made and enjoy it every week. With the writers and now actors strike, it may be some time before we see S3.

    And while I think this is my first time actually commenting, I’ve lurked here for 20 years or so, enjoying all the reviews (both ST and BSG among others) and commentary.

    @Jeffrey's Tube -
    I did research work with UCLA's School of Nursing, with many nurses who were PhDs--all incredible scientists and doctors.

    Wow. That is some of the best acting I have ever seen. Totally human Spock keeping a freeze face while being humiliated by his fiancee's mother, barely able to hold it together - but HOLDING it together because he had to. Pike's eyes bugging out when Amanda tells Spock she's going to teach him to lie. The interplay among T'pring, her father, and her mother, all note-perfect. I would say Ethan Peck owned this episode, but all the other actors in the ritual scenes did superb jobs too. They took a good script and made it perfection. Good direction there.

    Peck was able to go fluidly from comedy as a human teenager to a truly touching conversation with his mother to confusion about his feelings between T'pring and Chapel. The actress playing T'pring also brought her best game - for the first time, I actually liked her. Everybody gave their absolute best.

    There were a few quibbles, so I wouldn't call it a perfect episode - they sure got to and from that anomaly fast - but overall this gets my vote as the best of the season so far.

    Two stars. I like the humorous concept of Spock without his ears but the whole take on the character is distractingly non canonical. Can we just call this a reboot series (along with Disco) rather than continuing to pretend that it fits into the original Roddenberry Star Trek franchise timeline? Nothing about it fits.

    The “previously on Star Trek” prologue has Spock talking about his feelings more in five minutes than in the entire Nimoy catalogue of performances. This is a completely different take on the character. Nimoy portrayed him as pretending from childhood not to have emotions; his emotional breakout in This Side of Paradise felt more authentic than this impulse control nonsense. So did his zoom Farr struggles, which had a serious edge to the humor. This reset button plot feels more like the cheap gimmickry of Data acting out through his emotion chip than a true Spock story.

    It seems Chapel knows all about Spock’s fiancée. That doesn’t fit at all with Chapel’s shocked discovery of his engagement in Amok Time. Then again, the whole Spock-Chapel dynamic on this show doesn’t fit her pining for Spock unrequitedly on TOS. I really wish the Trek franchise could come up with fresh ideas and casts rather than redoing what was already perfect. This episode is well played and fitfully amusing but it’s torturous to watch under the pretense that it’s in the same universe and timeline as TOS. I also don’t like this version of Amanda; it just doesn’t work for some reason.

    @Govert, @Token

    "Maybe I got this all wrong, but aren't Vulcans, at their core, MORE emotional than humans? It's their training with sophisticated emotional and cognitive techniques which allows them to supress their strong emotions and stay logical."

    I think an earlier Season 2 episode (perhaps the premiere) did a retcon with M'Benga saying something about how Vulcans have learned to train their Vulcan synapses to help suppress their emotions. So it's as much a benefit of Vulcan biology as it is the mental training and discipline. I'm not fully sure how much I like this retcon.

    Or is it actually a retcon? After all, an argument rooted in actual science could be made that developing mental discipline is in fact training your physical body, the brain, to operate differently, just as one might do to take creatine and protein (or steroids) to help weightlift better and build muscle.

    We need our own Dr. McCoy on this forum. Does anybody know a guy?

    ---
    @Jeffrey's Tube

    "Chapel does a lot of really advanced science for someone who's only a nurse, huh?"

    Do you mean a nurse by Star Trek standards or a nurse by our standards? I'll always remember little quips throughout the many Star Trek episodes that suggest how far along studies and education have come over the centuries. Like, there was that one TNG episode where there was this kid that looks like he was in 5th grade groaning to his dad, "But I don't wanna go back to school and learn calculus!"

    ---
    @Sevana of Nine

    I agree with your view on Spock's adolescent behavior, and I felt uneasy about that, too. Surely he has his own memories of how other people have handled conflicts as guidance for how he should act, right? Still pretty funny, though. :-)

    My only complaint is being teased about a bunch of Vulcans playing charades and then not actually seeing it…

    I'm kind of shocked at the overall warm reception to this episode here, I thought it was pathetic. The sitcom plotting just made me gag.

    And if you've been following this website, you know that I try to be fair.

    "What does this mean?"
    "I don't know... shut up"

    Absolutely loved that ending!! Overall, this was a huge step up from last week's rather confusing and uneven story. It was well-balanced between the humorous (watching Spock's face as his future MIL rips him a new one was priceless) and the deeply emotional. Jess Bush is really winning me over with her portrayal as Nurse Chapel, as her acting on this episode was her best yet. And it helps that she was given a great script that allowed both Chapel and Spock to explore these feelings that are clearly there. Bush and Peck have great on-screen chemistry and I'm glad to see that the showrunners aren't afraid to explore that... I also loved that the aliens were quite mysterious, not just humanoids with their faces painted. And Spock protecting Chapel by diverting the shields at the last moment, nice touch!

    3.5 stars for me! Nice to see the show back on track at the midpoint. But I'm still going to say it again, let's get OUT THERE and do some exploring!

    Welcome, @Dan! I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Cool that you came out of lurkdom after all this time.

    @Tricolaco, it's true--that would have been cool to see them actually "go through with the charade(s)".

    So Vulcans feel more intense emotion. Only trained logic restrains it. So why would Spock be overwhelmed by 1/2 more of paltry human emotion? Are they suggesting Vulcan physiology also has greater defenses against emotions? Wouldn't the lifelong Vulcan training be able to compensate? Is the suggestion the training is useless? But wouldn't the human emotion be lesser? This episode undoes a lot of what I thought I knew about Vulcans, and violates its own logic in the act. It is unfortunate to see Vulcans, one of the most studied aliens in Star Trek, so misunderstood.

    On its own "Charades" is decent and it's the first episode in SNW S2 where the positives outweigh the negatives. But in the context of SNW as a whole, I get the sense these writers/producers lack ideas and keep rehashing what's been done before. This is a slightly weaker version of "Spock Amok".

    But one thing I think is that the SNW cast/crew has good chemistry among themselves and I'm much more appreciative now of Jess Bush's acting than I was before -- so she's a much better character now. But I'd really like to see Spock be more like the TOS Spock instead of far too frequently being off-kilter.

    The first thing that struck me is how such an energy anomaly could be so close to the Vulcan system and yet the Enterprise has to go study it. Would not Pike & co. know because of presumed warnings from the Vulcans about the dangers of the anomaly? Surely the Vulcans would have studied it. This just seemed like a haphazard way of engineering a way to make Spock human initially. (And I wasn't thrilled about this episode's premise.) But then these aliens have to make Chapel confront her feelings for Spock. So this whole part about the aliens has its holes and is highly arbitrary with the rules these aliens have...

    Thought the pacing dragged a bit and this type of show should fit in an hour with commercials. The overall script could be tightened up.

    Tere's a meaningful part about Spock recognizing his mother's sacrifice for him and he obviously doesn't appreciate T'Pring's mom insulting humans. Nice to reiterate how difficult it's been for Spock's mom to live among Vulcans, do everything for Spock etc. And Spock, as a human, is more willing/able to acknowledge this.

    It makes sense given what takes place in "Amok Time" that Spock and T'Pring should spend some time apart -- T'Pring will hook up with Stonn. So this episode ends with T'Pring pissed that Spock did not tell her what was wrong with him. Neat and tidy.

    2.5 stars for "Charades" -- a fairly enjoyable romcom, nothing overly ambitious here. I think this is the type of episode SNW does reasonably well. But in the grand scheme of things, that's like at least 3 Spock/T'Pring episodes / subplots in 15 SNW episodes. This series lacks ideas, originality, and is definitely playing it safe.

    I also enjoyed this episode fairly, but now if they’re going to do a further Spock centric episode it has to change. After last season having Spock Amok be in spot 5 for the season, now having this similar episode here at the halfway point again makes it feel a little one note. Let’s try and give Spock a more cerebral and serious story in his next character piece on SNW. I’d give this one 3/4 because I enjoyed the more touching character moments, but just wanted to get that out of the way.

    The “it must be incredibly embarrassing for you to learn this ritual was performed by a human” bit, in particular stood out. I got the most comedy by far this episode out of T’Pring’s father interacting with Pike, and Mount’s low and purposefully not convincing “yeah” punchline was hilarious. The Chapel element of this story was most needed for her character and Bush gave a very moving performance.

    I do agree however with the criticisms of them needing to give Spock something new to do.

    they are building up to have a Amok Time episode. T’Pring is obviously already hurt and I expect she will blow her top when the affair is all the way out there. I don’t think they will be able to work in Spock going through Pon Farr because that would be too much of a coincidence but I’m expecting to otherwise see a Amok Time reimagining this season or major tease for next season

    Strongest episode of season two as yet, and deserves to be ranked among the very best SNW episodes...all of which have taken place in the first season as we have been suffering a bit of a dry spell with the lackluster offerings this season. I wonder if some of the people who gave near-perfect scores to the last four episodes will consider walking back their praise a bit when those ones are juxtaposed to such an episode that, at last, shows us how it's done.

    What works is that the details of the science-fictiony plot dovetails so well with the emotional beats to tell convincing story that satisfies both the nerd-brain and the feels as a cohesive whole, and so everything that happens is both believable and feels earned. Ethan Peck has an opportunity to flex his acting chops and successfully delivers a nuanced performance that is at once authentically Spock and yet not-Spock. A lesser actor would not have been able to sell Spock's emotional adolescence so well, and it likely would have come across as just plain silly, mugging for cheap laughs. The episode also serves as an effective pay-off to Spock's ongoing romantic arc that finally releases the sexual tension between him and Chapel, as well as delivers some catharsis regarding his mismatched engagement with T'pal, finally putting to rest the tense and awkward energies surrounding that.

    It's not without flaws, however minor. The Hard-headed Alien of the Week trope rears its ugly head again, and has been deployed a little more artfully and believably in the past. Here, they may have well have been talking to a defunct computer and it would have played out the same. These tedious exchanges also seem to serve no purpose but a purely functional play for time to draw things out so Spock needs to wait as long as possible for the inevitable, as is necessary for the A-plot to fully unfold that he be stuck as a human.

    Also, the AI-like aliens can perhaps be forgiven for behaving like hyper-intelligent idiots on account for being well, alien, but there is no excuse for the crew to behave so unprofessional and inept during a first contact situation (complete with the usual cringey high-school dialogue), especially considering that the Enterprise is Starfleet's flagship would be the first choice to send to all possible first contact situations. God help these people if they ever have to a perform more serious first contact situation where the missteps aren't played for laughs...

    Even Pike seemed diminished from his usual charismatic and quick-witted self and always seems to fall one step behind the beat. Perhaps he neglected to have his morning coffee. I see some are excusing the drop in his performance, attributing it to his newfound fatherhood...but since when does the appraisal of an actor's performance need to be measured against their real life circumstances like this is a viable excuse? When the camera is on them, the best actors bring their A-game rain or shine, and it seems like there has been more shine than rain in Mount's life as late in any case. Given his well-established stature and reputation relative to some of the other actors, his credibility isn't in any serious jeopardy and it is still a serviceable job, even if you forget for the moment that he is supposedly the lead of this ensemble cast and once set the example to be followed. Shatner, Stewart and most other actors who played the great captains certainly never let you forget it.


    Chapel: "We can't do it, but we know who can, because they've done it before."

    M'Benga: "..the transporters?"

    Fantastic episode. Lighthearted, yet also tinged with the foreknowledge of T’Pring’s eventual betrayal.

    But it’s incredible how SNW is slowly setting T’Pring up as a tragic figure. Tragic… and justified in her rage?

    So is it betrayal? This series is amazing in how it feels ENTIRELY like it’s TOS, but crossed with today’s sensibilities. Enough so that T’Pring shifts from villain to a tragedy waiting to happen.

    This was fun, and Peck is delightful, but I think it was a mistake making Human!Spock revert to being a teenager. Yeah, you can argue he's emotionally stunted and make a case for that logically. But on-screen it grew tiresome quick. Nowhere near enough to derail the overall episode, but it did take me out of it a bit -- they took his Vulcan half, but he's still a grown-ass adult.

    "A Vulcan should have a more resilient bladder."

    One of the best quotes in the pantheon of the Star Trek franchise. Up there with “Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.” and “With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.”

    I don't think this was as entertaining as Spock Amock but I do think they've really done a good job modernizing Spock's "Am I human or Vulcan?" However, I also feel like they've made T'Pring a bit too much of a victim of what a crappy boyfriend Spock is. She's really made a huge effort to be accepting and meet Spock halfway (and then again) with Starfleet. The fact that Spock is clearly just not that into her and kind of leaving her hanging repeatedly is awful. Just dump the girl, Spock, as you'll both be happier. You're stringing her along in the classical sense.

    As for continuity, Spock and Chapel and T'Pring seem to be the case of where, "At some point, Spock breaks it off with both women and then renews the engagement later." Which is entirely possible in seven years. A past love affair would also explain why Spock and she had the pining.

    This take on Spock is how he's supposed to be, canonically, at this stage of his life. Little references here and there have indicated it over the decades (as well as Nimoy's performance in The Cage) and it has been explored a bit in the wider fiction as well. It is different from Nimoy's portrayal in TOS but that is an older, more assured Spock. Peck played a more Nimoy-like Spock in A Quality of Mercy and I thought he did a superb job at that. I completely believe Peck is "playing toward" Nimoy's Spock as in that's who he will become while also playing Spock as not being that person yet, and I personally have really enjoyed watching his performance. I also think the show is writing the character well.

    Sevek was the best character in this show, and I would love a Short Trek with Sevek and Pike secretly hanging out away from T'pril.

    It will be interesting to see how the show gets back to canon with Uhura not knowing who T'pril was.

    I'm all for Chapel and Spock, but sadly I have to hope that Chapel leaves Spock for Corby. Don't know that I could handle Spock hurting Chapel by breaking up with her.

    I'm surprised by the warm reception this episode has received compared to the rest of the season. For all of its pomp and circumstance (and a 60 minute run time), the stakes are very low. T'Pring is obviously a bad match for Spock. He loses nothing of value by giving her up. In exchange he gets Chapel and a deeper relationship with his mother. They should have brought back Sarek, with the promise of a renewed relationship with his dad if Spock goes through with the marriage. It was all too easy in this episode.

    I'm also fed up with the story-telling device of the whacky montage that the editors of this show are enamored with. There was a nasty tonal clash in this episode where Amanda is telling Spock that she has to hide her torment in Vulcan society, while light, whimsical music played in the background. Gross.

    @MidshipmanNorris
    "I'm kind of shocked at the overall warm reception to this episode here, I thought it was pathetic. The sitcom plotting just made me gag."

    I concur, wholeheartedly.

    If SNW were a Lucasfilm property, I would say that this was par for the course in the destruction of a franchise. But they're trying to mess with TOS, and I'm not getting into it. Enjoyed most the first season, but this season feels more like highly-financed cosplay.

    I thought it was weird that Spock's mother looked about the same age as Nimoy in TOS. I finally had to turn it off when I saw the enormously spacious shuttle interior, which reminded me that I was looking at a Hollywood set, and not something set in space.

    Nitpick/blooper notice: Did anyone else see the Enterprise doors close on Pike just as he wanted to walk through? Reminded me of the end of that 1997 sci-fi horror movie, Event Horizon, where the ship may be trapping the survivors on board... 😆

    https://youtu.be/6w2cHyh9stA

    'What does this mean?' indeed. That last scene isn't really a surprise, but let's see where they go with it. Good luck reconciling it with anything we saw in TOS.

    This was obviously meant as a fun, lightweight episode and I took it as such, but it nevertheless covered some interesting themes (such as the ostracism of Amanda Grayson on Vulcan and human-Vulcan tensions). The Vulcans are portrayed as relentlessly, illogically petty throughout the episode however, primarily for comedy purposes; I would have liked to have seen a discussion of the (lack of) logic of (within) their bigotry instead.

    (I incidentally watched 'You are Cordially Invited' last night, so I perhaps appreciated the role of T'Pril more than I would have otherwise.)

    Spock is once again presented as a fish out of water clown (which is increasingly becoming a trope on this series) - and more specifically a stroppy teenager. This is quite hit and miss, with Spock coming across as rather creepy at times. (Pike was merely a sidekick or foil throughout, also in a very hit and miss way.)

    That said, there are moments of real heart as well, such as when it was revealed that Spock diverted the shields to provide greater protection to 'Chapel' - who, as a full human, is of course, less physically robust than our resident half-Vulcan Vulcan. I liked that small attention to detail, even though I am sure it was played for its romantic undertones rather than for accordance with canon. More could have been made of the ambiguity of that action - because it *is* a logical thing to do in that situation, but could also reflect Spock's unspoken feelings. The fact that the writers and producers didn't want that ambiguity, instead preferring a young adult romance take on Spock and 'Chapel', is rather disappointing, but entirely predictable.

    Visually the episode seemed much more TOS than usual in terms of costuming and decor (much like last episode), and the special effects in the anomaly were beautifully done.

    I noticed that Kathryn 'wej Duj' Lyn is credited as the main writer on this episode, which may explain its more Trek-like bent and fewer manic excesses. (Kudos to the writers and producers for actually giving Ortegas some relatively normal lines for two episodes in a row now, despite the 'Hold onto your butts' swipe from Jurassic Park.)

    Overall I was able to enjoy this episode for its silliness (much like 'Spock Amok'). Its key premise ('What if Spock was fully human?') is quintessentially Trekkian, and recalls several other episodes. It was nice to see an anomaly as well. The dialogue (apart from the nearly-swearing at the start) was mainly fine, and most characters were used reasonably well. I have admitted to liking 'Chapel' as a character and there was nothing in this episode to dissuade me of that (although I found the interview sequences to be a slip back to the standard NuTrek self-aggrandising lack of professionalism).

    Not outstanding but absolutely not bad either.

    TL;DR: I continue to be caught off-guard with how Anson Mount portrays his relatable, personable Starfleet Captain. If I'm in a room joking with Janeway, I'd be thinking, "I'm laughing with the Captain." If I'm in a room joking with Pike, I'd be thinking, "I'm laughing with Chris."

    --
    With almost every past iteration I've seen, they always come off serious and almost "above everyone else" even when they're trying to be personable, relaxed, or friendly (I don't necessarily mean that they come off as superior as a person, but I can't think of another, more accurate phrase). When I watch the captains of Star Trek, I still always felt like there's a distance between them and their subordinates, and in turn, I would feel a distance between them and me.

    Anson's take on Pike somehow closes that distance. Like when Sevek asks for some more of Pike's food, Pike snaps his fingers and points at him, immediately on the task of feeding Sevek. Actions like that help me view him as a buddy that's on my level. Is it because Anson knows how to combine his charm with how to convey being so damn likeable? Or is it due to how he's been written with all those scenes scattered throughout the series where he cooks and chats casually with his crew? Surely a combination of both, but which (or what else) takes most of the weight?

    I also wonder if such a leader could exist in the military. Would this hypothetical leader still command the same respect, loyalty, and obedience Pike has in SNW?

    @UESPA-Sputnik
    ‘ I don't really know what Una's job on the Enterprise really is. She's barely doing anything. You'd expect her to accompany the away team at the end of the episode (or did they steal the shuttle, now that they know how to steal the Enterprise). For an XO she's barely noticeable. This isn't a complaint about this episode, it's a thread that runs throughout the series.’

    @John
    ‘Even though Una is nominally the third member of the show's power trio they really do love to sideline her. She's always being held captive, getting hurt, being left on the ship, etc.’

    @ThatERGuy
    ‘Una continues to be a little invisible. ‘

    @Jeffrey’s Tube
    ‘I think Una's overall lack of presence in the show is starting to become a problem. It is standing out. The scene where La'an and Spock had a talk alone, and he became attracted to her, could just as easily have been given to Una and as I was watching it I was wondering why it wasn't her having it with him. I guess the reason is the writers love La'an as much as the audience does.’

    I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s noticed the more or less total sidelining of Una, who is one of my favourite characters, played wonderfully by Romijn – whenever she actually gets the chance, that is. She was even turned into a largely silent court exhibit in her own focus episode.

    I think @Jeffrey’s Tube is entirely correct in suggesting that the La’an/Spock scene would have been more logical (no pun intended) if it were Una/Spock, both in terms of rank and roles. I doubt the scene would have come across as creepily if it had been Una. I do really wonder if it was originally written for Una rather La’an.

    I agree that the fading away of Una is definitely becoming a serious problem and I do sincerely hope that the writers and producers bring her in from the cold in the next few episodes. I would hate to see Romijn leave this show, and I think Una is a fascinating character. ‘Ghosts of Illyria’ was an intriguing episode and unfortunately she’s been less and less prominent since then, which makes no sense at all. Have the writers and producers taken a dislike to Romijn, the way McFadden was treated in TNG?

    The big difference between this Spock and TOS Spock is that TOS Spock had firmly chosen his Vulcan side, whereas this Spock is more conflicted.

    Honestly, with most TOS episodes, if Spock was full blooded Vulcan it wouldn't have made any difference whereas this Spock emphasizes his mixed nature and the conflict it creates. I guess you can chop it up to him being younger or whatever. Ethan Peck has done an amazing job with the role though.

    I wonder if there will be an evolution into a more Vulcan Spock throughout the show or they will stick with this portrayal because it's more nuanced and creates more opportunities for drama and conflict.

    Man, this season suuccccckkkkksssss 🤦‍♂️ this episode in particular was incredibly boring, cheap, uninteresting, super cringy, and dumb. Goddamn these writers have no fucking clue what Star Trek is or how to write a decent sci-fi story. So stupid.
    Eps 1,2, and 4 were mediocre - definitely watchable but subpar to some great eps in S1, but eps 3 and 5 this season were just atrociously stupid 🤦‍♂️

    It’s hard to showcase everyone in this great show because it suffers from too few episodes. Lately that has left Una shortchanged.

    Now with the actors joining the writers on strike I’m giving up on my hope that they could give some of Disco’s budget to SNW for extended seasons.

    Fully support the writers and actors against the studios, and also now realize it’s gonna be a long while after this season before we get more.

    How many seasons will SNW try for? I’m betting 5 at the max with current financial and studio realities.

    Also, RIP Manny Coto. Season 5 of Enterprise would have been likely the best season of any trek ever. It will be an everlasting tragedy that we never got a season 5. I wonder if he ever wrote down a secret document of what he wanted for the season besides the snippets we know already. Shran joining. T’pol half Romulan, Romulan war, founding of the federation. 😞

    Can the writers of this show please resist the urge to turn Spock into an adolescent boy? The idea was criticized in Star Trek III, and it's like ever since the writers have a grudge against the audience. "No, you WILL like Teenage Spock. He's horny and loud and he eats all the time, just like you!" I'm growing increasingly tired of the distracting, go-nowhere plots that feel like unused Sitcom scripts someone dusted off and added a Star Trek flair to. The episodes are overly long, and they seem to always be grasping for a good place to stop, because the confused writers let their characters ramble on incessantly (did we really need a 25+ minute monologue about the federation in the Illyrian trial episode?).

    I feel increasingly insane as I look at reactions to this EP in the wider community. T'pring is boring because we all know how it ends, and there's never the potential for any drama in their relationship. Same with Chapel/Spock. How are the two going to break up and go back to her having a crush on him and just leaving him alone? This isn't pedantic to ask, since the show has literally used clips from the Original Series in this show to suggest its continuity.

    Why does the show think it's ok to depict anomalous space clouds? Answer: because TOS did it, and because continuity, you have to accept it. I mean, you like TOS, or you wouldn't be watching this, so you must be OK with giant clouds of gas telling characters stuff and screwing with them. But I'm not. The aliens this week are so hilariously lazy it loops back to self parody. Are these the Q from Galaxy Quest? Seriously, "Blue" and "Yellow"? The aliens literally only exist to provide a setup for the sitcom hijinks to ensue. Ortegas could have called them the Plot Device Aliens and I wouldn't have batted an eye. That's all they are! They have no interesting ideas, no reflection of anything, they're just there to split Spock. The one explanation the writers cough up is laughable and stupid. "They had to match, one had weird instructions" - that's not how DNA works. That's not how any of this works.

    Maybe I'm just out of touch. I feel increasingly like the old man yelling at kids to get off my lawn and to take their Disco Trek with them.

    @EMP

    I’m usually as complimentary as I feel the episode deserves, and often feel on the wrong end of people here who are vociferously critical of NuTrek; however in this case, I fully agree with you! This episode was astonishingly stupid.

    Pathetic, is the word I thought of. It’s such a tired dead horse of a Sitcom Plot.

    @EMP
    'Maybe I'm just out of touch. I feel increasingly like the old man yelling at kids to get off my lawn and to take their Disco Trek with them.'

    Amen to that. This is one of the best comments I've ever read on here (a high bar).

    After being accused of being a 'hate watcher' of NuTrek - which some people apparently seem to believe is the worst possible sin any viewer can commit these days - I've been trying this season to focus on and accentuate the positives in SNW.

    It hasn't been easy.

    I'd been thinking prior to this about how any of the Spock/T'Pring/Chapel stuff can ever be reconciled with TOS. I'd settled on the idea that at some point T'Pring at least partially mindwipes Spock and Chapel (a la Spock himself mindwiping Kirk at the end "Requiem for Methusalah") so that Spock really wouldn't know T'Pring since childhood and Chapel wouldn't know Spock well (in the biblical sense or otherwise) before joining the Kirk-era crew. This would even add a little more motivation retroactively to T'Pring in "Amok Time." Now, with both families and Uhura, M'Benga, etc. involved in this farce, it is just impossible. WTF are we left with now, aside from indeed consigning this whole series to Kelvin or some other alternate timeline?

    @Bok R’Mor

    I wouldn’t call myself a hate watcher, I want the shows to get better and bottom line if they were absolute garbage I wouldn’t be watching, however tho I think coming on here after every episode and leaving scathing reviews ends up being a drain on everyone. I’m not accusing you of this at all I’m just discussing hate watch comments overall. (Also I don’t have major problems with SNW. Discovery and Picard are the two I overall don’t think much of)

    I think I need to go back and get a refresher on the TOS episode Amok Time. I only remember at high level what happens there.

    But I absolutely love T'Pring! In addition to being ambitious and striving for excellence as most Vulcans are, she's also gentle with her logic. She can still be kind. The fact that she is so vastly different from her arrogant and judgmental mother makes those qualities she demonstrates even more valued. I love T'Pring for Spock even though I know they're doomed, and while Chapel is a perfectly acceptable woman, I currently find T'Pring more interesting.

    As a very generalized statement, I can easily accept someone telling me why they have an interest in Chapel. But why does Spock? I have yet to see enough interaction on screen where it could possibly make logical sense to even a half-Vulcan to doom an engagement to a relatively exceptional Vulcan woman so early on.

    Presumably because Nurse Chapel is so smokin' hot, she dazzles Spock's human side to the extent that it even bypasses his Vulcan logic.

    I’ve noticed that Starfleet captains have a preoccupation with food:
    Pike always dabbling in the kitchen
    Sisko loved cooking up his family recipes in DS9
    Kirk whipping up breakfast in Generations
    Picard and his fine wine/family vineyard.

    I guess you gotta have hobbies in deep space & cooking is easier than carpentry! 👨‍🍳 🖖

    @Cody B
    'I want the shows to get better and bottom line if they were absolute garbage I wouldn’t be watching, however tho I think coming on here after every episode and leaving scathing reviews ends up being a drain on everyone.'

    I think everyone who is still watching SNW (and I know some long-time regulars from this forum aren't) wants it to be the best show it can be, otherwise they wouldn't bother with it. I stopped watching DSC in the second season, I think, because a) it was a boring and silly waste of time; and b) I was getting tired of the constant refrain of 'if you don't like it, don't you dare watch it, you're ruining it for the rest of us'. It was a relief to drop the entire thing and I don't regret doing so.

    With regards SNW (as opposed to DSC) I feel the debate here's more differences of opinion about what works, what doesn't work, and what needs to work better, evenly distributed. Since SNW tries the big approaches but often fails in its execution, there's usually a lot to discuss, week in and week out.

    The actual number of true 'hate watchers' on this forum is negligible. I don't think people 'hate' SNW. We do see justified criticism and nitpicking (alongside a *lot* of praise*), and it was ever thus with Trek. The dynamic is more that the 'love watchers' of NuTrek can't seem to enjoy NuTrek unless everyone is as effusively enthusiastic about it as they are. So you have 'love watchers' and they call anyone else who doesn't agree with them 100% a 'hate watcher'. Opinions, eh? Ten a penny and you don't have to take them on board.

    *I'm getting 'drained' repeating myself here but here's what SNW has done particularly well in my view: casting and performances, particularly Mount, Romijn, Chong, Bush and Olusanmokun; its visual aesthetic is spot-on, and increasingly more TOS-like; the standalone episode format; the chemistry between the cast; the attempts at respectful references to previous Trek without turning it into a parade of memberberries; the attempts at genuine sci-fi; and the attempts at characterisation and 'heart'.

    Ultimately, I quite liked the episode. It had good humor, an interesting premise and by the end it was about something. It is clear by now that the Spock we see here is very immature in comparison with Nimoy’s Spock. He’s learning the ropes. They should tread carefully with this nurse Chappel thing, though, since in TOS there was no mention of any past relationship between her and Spock.
    In any case I really like Mia Kirshner as Amanda, Pike once again is a supporting character (SNW is much more of an ensemble piece in the vein of TNG, compared to the leading-man sensibility of TOS). I also really liked how they play around with the idea of makeup. How the actor’s actual prosthetics suddenly become a plot element before returning to be diegetic.
    What I was less enamored of was the whole B-plot with the Kerhcovians (sp?). The episode sets it out as the big mystery the Enterprise is sent to investigate but then after the shuttle accident (why did they send a lone shuttle again…?) the episode completely drops it off. Now it just become silly, as the aliens are now non-corporeal and go by color names (why?), Chappel, Ortega and Uhura go inside the Kerchovian dimension to plead with them to return Spock to its original form (the episode doesn’t make clear if the shuttle trip was ultimately authorized by Pike or not, we don’t even know if he was aware of it). Anyway, what saves the scene is Jess Bush’s heartfelt performance as she pleads her case. I guess the rest is just window dressing and not that important.
    Also interesting to note that in SNW Spock is really one of the guys, hanging out with the crew etc., while in TOS he’s mostly estranged from the “simple folks”, there are even a few episodes that use mine that dynamic for stories. I would be interested to see the process of how Spock became this elevated figure in the hierarchy of the ship.
    And I’ll end with something that’s starting to bother me. Why do most Vulcans speak like robots on this show? There is even a scene when Spock is being told by his crew mates that he sounds like a robot. This is most evident this week with T’pring character. She sounds like a robot from a 1960’s movie. And speaking of the 60’s, I don’t remember Nimoy’s Spock speaking like that. In TOS he talks in a very measured way and there is always some inflection in his voice. He’s not spouting dialogue like a machine. Weird.

    For the people who like to criticize, continue by all means. It’s helpful but make it constructive and perhaps include the things you liked about it too. That way you will be less likely to come off as one dimensional hate watchers.

    That being said, we are at the point in the series where patterns are beginning to emerge and fair analysis of those is justified. Just let’s not be dicks🫶

    @Lynos

    'It had good humor'

    I thought the actress playing T'Pring was very funny in both this episode and 'Spock Amok' - much more entertaining than Peck, actually. Someone else pointed out how good an actress she is but generally she's been quite under-rated here.

    'Why do most Vulcans speak like robots on this show? There is even a scene when Spock is being told by his crew mates that he sounds like a robot. This is most evident this week with T’pring character.'

    It's deliberate - done for comic effect. It sometimes works (see above), but as with most comedy on NuTrek it's one note and over-used to the point of a very diminishing return.

    @ThatERguy
    People are free to express their opinions any way they like, as long as it falls within the commenting rules. Policing the forum and granting people the right to come across one way or another or express this observation or that observation or be called a 'hate watcher' can also be interpreted as being 'dickish'. And you wouldn't want that, would you?

    Just so we're all on the same page, and then back to this week's episode:

    'The golden rule: Keep things respectable and civil. Honest, good-faith debate is encouraged, but please avoid personal or ad hominem attacks or accusations, or blatant rudeness or profanity directed at other contributors. As a rule of thumb, you should be discussing the topic at hand, not making things personal with the other contributors. Ignore trolling behavior rather than engaging with it and making things worse. Do your best to rise above the fray.'

    https://www.jammersreviews.com/info/terms.php#comment-rules

    I actually really liked this one. It was fun, but also had really great emotional notes of love, friendship, respect, etc.

    Also, Vulcan space Karen? I'm in.

    Forgot to mention:

    @Lynos
    'In any case I really like Mia Kirshner as Amanda'

    I second this. The scenes in which she discussed the challenges of living as a human on Vulcan were intriguing and deftly done, and I would have liked to have seen that explored for a little longer.

    Fleshing out background characters like Amanda Grayson is something that SNW should do more of: in such cases it's a great storytelling opportunity that contributes to Trek and doesn't necessitate tampering with continuity to make its points.

    @ Token
    "I'm surprised by the warm reception this episode has received compared to the rest of the season. For all of its pomp and circumstance (and a 60 minute run time), the stakes are very low. T'Pring is obviously a bad match for Spock. He loses nothing of value by giving her up. In exchange he gets Chapel and a deeper relationship with his mother. They should have brought back Sarek, with the promise of a renewed relationship with his dad if Spock goes through with the marriage. It was all too easy in this episode."

    The way I see it, the episode is not really about Spock's relationship with T'pring. We all know how this ended. I think the writers are just using the relationship to examine Spock's struggle with his dual heritage as this point in his life. I don't think every episode needs a life-or-death kind of stakes. What's interesting to watch here is how Spock, and to a lesser extent the people around him, deal with this challenge he is facing. The final scene very clearly shows us what the episode is about. Spock has not only learned something about himself, but also deepened his relationship with his mother. T'pring, the ceremony and the goofy aliens are all cogs in the plot to effect this change.

    @ Cynic
    "I'd been thinking prior to this about how any of the Spock/T'Pring/Chapel stuff can ever be reconciled with TOS. I'd settled on the idea that at some point T'Pring at least partially mindwipes Spock and Chapel (a la Spock himself mindwiping Kirk at the end "Requiem for Methusalah") so that Spock really wouldn't know T'Pring since childhood and Chapel wouldn't know Spock well (in the biblical sense or otherwise) before joining the Kirk-era crew. This would even add a little more motivation retroactively to T'Pring in "Amok Time." Now, with both families and Uhura, M'Benga, etc. involved in this farce, it is just impossible. WTF are we left with now, aside from indeed consigning this whole series to Kelvin or some other alternate timeline?"

    I hope they don't pull a Discovery on Spock's memory or something. I really do. On the other hand, I have learned to not think about these things too much. Would I have preferred that the custodians of Trek let go of the their pre-occupation with prequels and sequels and venture into new territory? Sure I do. It's just easier, and safer for them, to use pre-established characters. That's why they do it. So at that point you just have to go with these inconsistencies or you wouldn't be able to enjoy the shows. I see the Star Trek universe as a playground for imaginitve exploration of the future. Canon is important but not crucial. Even within TOS, the early episodes aren't consistent with later episodes in all kinds of ways. It's best to simply view each series as its own thing, I think, and take what works for you on the story and thematic level and let go of what doesn't. Or else we will all go into Amok Time.

    In terms of plot this is two stars, but for sheer execution its 4/4. This could have been a farce, but it's so well balanced with no much nuance and believability of the characters it all ties together fantastically. By and large it must also be the one of the funniest Trek episodes I've ever seen.

    I don’t understand the hate-watching. This was an exemplary episode, anchored by exceptional acting from Peck and Bush. What is the show you all want, if not this one?

    @Jon from Rhode Island (and everyone else)

    Exemplary of what, exactly? Could you elaborate more? I'm asking sincerely, because I've being reading the comments and this ep still feels dumb and pointless to me.

    It was *fun*. It was well written. It was well acted. I enjoyed the love story. It looked beautiful. It was a good episode. Not sure what else to say? Sorry you didn’t like it.

    Basically it seems that, taken on its own terms, it's a good episode. But if you think the comedic tone is too foreign to Star Trek (even though every series has had its share of those), or if the premise is wrongheaded to begin with, it's a bad one.

    @Jon from Rhode Island

    As a Star Trek fan since 1998, I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. It provided an entertaining and humorous experience, while also delving into the complex dynamics of Spock's relationship with his mother and their connection to Vulcan. It was a refreshing exploration that added depth to the characters.

    While it's true that there have been a few lackluster episodes in Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard Seasons 1 and 2, overall, I've found the recent Star Trek shows to be satisfactory. The production quality, storytelling, and character development have largely met my expectations.

    When it comes to the criticism of "nuTrek," it's important to recognize that those who vehemently dislike the newer Star Trek iterations represent only a tiny minority of the fanbase. It's crucial not to generalize their sentiments to the broader audience. I've noticed that a majority of these critics tend to congregate in Jammer's comment section, which may contribute to a skewed perception of overall fandom sentiment.

    Personally, I choose to ignore the more toxic comments, but I do appreciate those who offer valid criticism with well-supported arguments. Constructive feedback is valuable, as it allows for meaningful discussions about the show's strengths and weaknesses, rather than dismissive comments that merely state "it sucked."

    Enjoyed it mildly but the T’Pring / Chapel storyline bothers me. We know how this ends eventually and with that in mind, it is very difficult to root for either relationship.

    The farcical “hide my humanity” plot fits the tone of the show but was a bit forced.

    I can’t shake the feeling that this was a Frasier episode in disguise. With Spock and T’Pring as Niles and Mel, and Chapel as Daphne.

    "When it comes to the criticism of "nuTrek," it's important to recognize that those who vehemently dislike the newer Star Trek iterations represent only a tiny minority of the fanbase. It's crucial not to generalize their sentiments to the broader audience. I've noticed that a majority of these critics tend to congregate in Jammer's comment section, which may contribute to a skewed perception of overall fandom sentiment."

    More likely, because most of the other forums for Star Trek discussion censor or outright ban criticism or negative appraisals of any sort, Jammer's comment section provides an uncommon window into the unvarnished truth, offering a truly representational slice of the fanbase with a more authentic diversity of opinions which includes the full spectrum between love and hate.

    “Man, this season suuccccckkkkksssss 🤦‍♂️ this episode in particular was incredibly boring, cheap, uninteresting, super cringy, and dumb. Goddamn these writers have no fucking clue what Star Trek is or how to write a decent sci-fi story. So stupid.
    Eps 1,2, and 4 were mediocre - definitely watchable but subpar to some great eps in S1, but eps 3 and 5 this season were just atrociously stupid 🤦‍♂️“

    This couldn’t be further from objective truth.

    It was a wow episode again. So much fun acting. I laughed but als felt quite emotional. Rhe love story between Spock and Chappel is fantastic. Both give a unconditional love.

    Una sidlined, yes unfortunately. But also Laan and M'Benga was put in the background slightly. Still they used the whole enseble to do this. The sceen where the ladies tried to teach Spok to be Vulcan was so spot on and had so many perfect timings. Pikes mimics in the othe scenes was teriffic.

    Mia Kirshner convinced as Amanda Grayson. Here interaktion with Spock was very moving.

    Weak points, T'Pring and her Mother but that is perhaps how Vulcan are.

    Even if T'Pring's father and mother was not very human, I dis spot an universal constant the the husband wife relation.

    Still to me the a very touching part was when Ortegas, Uhura joined Chappel in her attempt to find the aliens. They also managed to tune the Ortega charater to the better.

    Ethan Pech bein able to parody his own character was awesome.
    But It was very much a Jess Bush episode. She delivered.

    I do not like the gradings with number but this was to me a clear top rater.

    @Bryan

    That's a fair point. But isn't there something to be said for just sitting back and enjoying the fact that we have so much Star Trek to stream? In the end, aren't we all Star Trek "fans"? I nitpick too at times, but in the end, I love the show. And here is something else to ponder. We all became fans thanks to an obscure show at the bottom of the ratings for three years back in the late 60s, and by all counts their third season was ABYSMAL! Yet we didn't care, because it was the concept of seeing ourselves 300 years from now exploring the galaxy as a unified human race, in partnership with other races, that drew us to it.

    Wow.

    This was painful. At this point, I should just be watching misery porn with this amount of pure unadulterated torture.

    I should go and watch the Color Purple and Beloved back to back. It just might be less painful to watch. Better yet I could binge watch every season of The Handmaid's Tale. I might end up with PTSD but at least I'd enjoy the experience.

    Only thing keeping this from becoming Picard S02 is the fact that it's not the same storyline for the whole season. Otherwise, Jesus Christ.

    @Quincy

    "Wow.

    This was painful. At this point, I should just be watching misery porn with this amount of pure unadulterated torture.

    I should go and watch the Color Purple and Beloved back to back. It just might be less painful to watch. Better yet I could binge watch every season of The Handmaid's Tale. I might end up with PTSD but at least I'd enjoy the experience.

    Only thing keeping this from becoming Picard S02 is the fact that it's not the same storyline for the whole season. Otherwise, Jesus Christ."

    I was just about to make a post about how the "hate-watchers" posts here are often so irritating because they are full of hyperbole, do not make a good faith effort at criticism, and fail to offer what they would like to see from the show instead. I scroll to the end and find your post will be right above mine.

    Thank you for illustrating my point.

    @Shannon

    "But isn't there something to be said for just sitting back and enjoying the fact that we have so much Star Trek to stream?"

    That's quite separate from appreciating that we have a free and open venue to discuss all that Star Trek, which we wouldn't be doing if it were sufficient to just passively sit back and enjoy it.

    "In the end, aren't we all Star Trek "fans"?"

    That's actually my point since I feel that we are all ultimately fans regardless of whether the reception is favourable or not, and thus deserve to have our say as much as any other and not be written off as impossible-to-please curmudgeons or mere outliers. Even the most hateful of "hate-watchers" is coming from a place of fanship and love, if not for the particular series or episode being criticized, than for the broader franchise as a whole and are simply making a tacit comparison between the new and treasured Trek of the past. And so no one here is truly anti-Trekkian because if they were, they wouldn't bother giving their two cents since they wouldn't care enough to do that.

    "We all became fans thanks to an obscure show at the bottom of the ratings for three years back in the late 60s, and by all counts their third season was ABYSMAL!"

    I wouldn't say that we ALL did, except in the more indirect sense that TNG and everything after for which we are fans couldn't have existed in the forms that they did if not for TOS. I only seen a handful of TOS episodes and only as spontaneous watches. My own sense is that I could take it or leave it. Maybe I would have appreciated it more if I had grown up in that era. Perhaps a lot of us would've appreciated Nu-Trek more if we were more of product of the modern era than the decades that came before.

    @Bryan

    I appreciate the points you are making, and I have no problem with constructive criticism.

    As a child, I watched TOS reruns for about a year before TNG started, so I too am more a product of TNG when it comes to my love of Star Trek. And let's not forget that TNG's first season certainly had its stinkers (Code of Honor, Angel One, Justice, When the Bough Breaks, Skin of Evil), but I kept watching and wanting more Star Trek.

    But you have to admit, some of the comments on here go way beyond criticism. For instance: "Man, this season suuccccckkkkksssss 🤦‍♂️ this episode in particular was incredibly boring, cheap, uninteresting, super cringy, and dumb. Goddamn these writers have no fucking clue what Star Trek is or how to write a decent sci-fi story. So stupid."

    Quincy has every right to make their critical comments. If we start to regard only that speech which is more than the equivalent of a grunt as “important,” viewpoint suppression will follow.

    I will note this though: I enjoy being able to engage with someone else’s comment, to argue back and forth. This is impossible when the comment has already posited that something is irretrievably bad and unworthy of further conversation - without saying why. How do you engage with that commenter? They are broadcasting that debate is worthless and pointless - and that it is unworthy of their time to explain why something is, say “torture porn.” The ipse dixit becomes the established fact - as if someone were saying, “The sky is blue.” How does one dissent from or engage with that remark?

    Roger Ebert once wrote an article about how Rush Limbaugh did not have any more right than Howard Stern to be on the radio. Limbaugh, to Ebert, was always looking for ways to silence debate, not to move it. Ebert elaborated by going on about Limbaugh’s use of the word “feminazi.” “Once you have called someone a feminazi,” Ebert said, “ What left is there to say about that person?” Once you have called something misery porn and have accused it of giving you PTSD, what else is there to say about it, for someone who disagrees with you to engage you with?

    The same logic applies, by the way, to people who engage in he same hyperbolic talk that praises the show, rather than condemning it.

    @F: "Exemplary of what, exactly? Could you elaborate more? I'm asking sincerely, because I've being reading the comments and this ep still feels dumb and pointless to me."

    I mean, I gave it three stars so "exemplary" is a little strong for my taste. I see the flaws, as well as the fact that it doesn't have a ton of substance for must of its running time. But I had fun with it, before it actually went serious near the end in what I found to be an effective way. If you didn't vibe with the frothy fun, you're not going to get into it because it certainly doesn't explore any interesting sci-fi concepts or anything like that. It's mainly a romp, with a bit of substance in the last act. ::shrug::

    @Bryan: "I wouldn't say that we ALL did"

    Yeah, it's a good way to feel old to realize that most Trek fans these days actually started with TNG (if not something even newer, ack!) I was not alive when TOS was originally airing, but when I came home from school and watched TOS reruns on my beanbag, there was not yet anything else but that original cast, whether on TV or in movie theaters. And when TNG came out when I was a teenager, I was actually not that impressed and still have not seen the vast majority of that series although I've seen most of DS9 & Voyager and all of Enterprise (and liked them all more than TNG).

    @Caloceptri Thanks for your question and your feedback. Let me now try to answer you. BY the way Masticate , Expectorate, Flatulate, & Fornicate sounds like a great name for a Trek cover band does it not?? Or a band in general right? Or at least a song..a Vulcan EDM track perhaps??..I think you were using those fancy words ending in -ate to be clever and emphasize your point and it worked..if that was your intent? And your name Caloceptrinis cool..don't think I've ever heard it before..Kay I ask where it's from?

    To answer your question of which episodes fulfill my criteria, ALL Or most or many of my favorite Trek episodes fulfill my criteria to some degree for either a strange new world and/or alien life form and/or anomalies/phenomena..Remember it can be a new world OR anew alien OR. A new anomaly..ideally two or three of them in the same episode but I'll settle for one. The best examples for me are Thirty Days the water world in voyager which was MORE ORIGINAL than just a planet covered in water like a solid surface like the movie Waterworld because it was just the body of water separate from the land and buildings within it and unique alien life forms living in it..something we had not tseen before in Trek or other sci fi that I know of..but even that episode could've explored a but more of the biology of the creatures and ecology and physiology of the Moneans and shown more aliens under the water and been a two parter less of the Paris Daddybstuff for my taste but it was very close to mostly satisfactory and thus is always in my list of top favorite Voyager epiodes..One Small step whcih explored the graviton ellipse which was like its own world/new anomaly is also a favorite as is Distant Origin for exploring the Voth culture and Elogium for the magnetic cosmozoans and Bliss for the unique bioplasmic life forms and MY FAVORITE the best alien in Star Trek for me Species 8472 and fluidic space in Scorpion !!thiugh part 2 didn't explore their space Nearly enough for my taste and they should've explored their space and OTHER LIFE forms that live in fluid space in In the Flesh or other 8472 episodes that we sadly never got.!!!. Also Demon for the unique Demon class planet and the Omega Directive for the omega molecules and The Void season 7 for Phantome's species who were sadly never named and the subspace rift and those subspace antimatter lifeforms from Equinox too are among my favorite aliens!!. These didn't fully satisfy me but they mostly come very close and thus are my favorite and the best episodes of Trek from Voyager imo. In TNG The Loss is an underrated sci fi masterpiece for exploring thise unique badass 2d life forms and the wonders of a cosmic string!!..I wish it had explored more of them. It's always in my top 5 TNG episodes, which for the record are The Loss, The Chase, Timescape, Schisms especially also for those unqiue aliens and their alternate clickrety clack universe and maybe Where No One Has Gone Before but thst one was only half satisfying but COULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST!..also Sarjenka's planet from Pen Pals and the Devidians unique planet from Times Arrow..what do younthink of those examples? More to come!..

    @Caloceptri cotminued...also from TNG The Chikdren of Tama from Darmok and that silvery black creature who was attacking Picard and the Tamarian..the semi sentient spatio-temproal vortex from Time Squared the Bynars and their cybernetic computer controlled planet in 11000011000 or whatever..the thought subspace bubble universe of Crushers own making in Remember Me, the antintime anomaly in All Good Things, Tin Man of course also top 5 episode and those aliens in Jdentity Crisis..in Enterprise Vox Sola is AMAZING fornthe life form and its planet from the first season and Unexpected not for the Trip pregnant stuff. Jt for the unique alien environment of the alien ship and those aliens and their psychology physiology which we learn a fair bit about. Also the Xindi stuff since there were 5 and episodes that explored the various species like Hatchery explored insectoids and the Council and Countdown explored the aquatics and avaians and Anomaly and Harbinger and Azati Prime explored the sphere network and the unique sphere builder life forms..obsessed with them and that concept and the Suliban and their helix station inside a gas giant concept from Broken Bow...and now for DS9 ..sigh..there's only like 3 episodes sadly lol..Playing God was the BEST episode of ds9 for thst cool mini universe within a universe!! Why the frak wasn't that a two part episode!! Also Dramatis Personae and Equilibrium for exploring the trill homeworld..a strange new world at that point and the culture of the guardians!! That was a rare ds9 standout..also Q less just for that manta ray life form at the end, the Storyteller for that cloud life form, Vortex for that mini quasi Changeling life form, Second Sight for that unique projecting telepath love interest life form, and the jem hadar/the search two parter obviously for the jemhadar /vorta/founders..that night be ir for DS9 sadly..bit thise at least satisfy somewhat...what do you think of those

    Gotta give @Leif credit, he was basically told to put up or shut up and he put up!

    @Caloceptri oh one Voyager episode I forget about a lot but shouldn't because it is one of of favorites and very original is Waking moments for the ORIGINAL concept of a collective unconscious and the unique new world of that alien cave and the "neuroendocrine field"..that should've been a two.parter..it was several years before Inception so you could say Inception was derivative of Voyager! Jammer said that one is derivative of TNG Night Terrors but nkt at all..that episode didn't have anything anything so with dreams or alies wholive I sreasm.it was about ppl not sleeping..and the alien communicated with telepatby..Troy wasn't sleeping..anyway also Macrocosm ,Riddles, and dragons teeth from Voyager
    .and Cogenjtor from.Enterprise and TOS of course Devil in the Dark for the Horta and their unique environment, The Immunity Syndrome, The Cage for the Talosians and their planet, Galileo Seven for thst unquue asteroid and the life form but should've focused more on that, athe Man Trap for that seductively salty life form, Obsession for the antimatter energy life form, aThe Tholian Web for the Tholians duh!! The Lights of Zetar, the immunity syndrome, operation annihilate, the episode with the medusans..

    @Slackerinc lol thanks for your support and the feedback. Yea that's just what I've always liked best and expected from Trek and so get bummed when it doesn't deliver that. But don't mean to annoy or tire anyone.

    @Norvo ok cool just checking

    Heh, be careful what you wish for...

    @Shannon

    Well it is still a criticism of sorts. I don't think it should be required that people flesh out their claims into a proper argument with clear examples and such because then it would only be fair to ask those who offer little else but unqualified praise to do the same. And that isn't an easy thing to do, at least not for everyone.

    Perhaps some comments are not worthy of a response, and probably those who leave such comments don't expect one. But the disagreement here never pertained to whether or not everyone is worthy of the same degree and quality of engagement.

    I was not particularly won over by S1. Given the praise it garnered, I was concerned my overall cynicism towards Trek had bled into the experience. The cringeworthy Picard S3 did little to reignite my enthusiasm for the franchise.

    Well, this is the episode that finally snuffed out any lingering doubts about SNW.

    It's the most I've enjoyed new TV Trek in nearly 25 years, and the first 5 / 5 I've given anything from NuTrek's stables.

    @StarMan I'm curious since you didn't like SNW Season 1 was your favorite episode from season1 spock amok since it had very similar hijinks fun premise and spirit as this episode? And why you didn't like S1, I'm curious?

    @Leif Just to be clear I didn't NOT like S1 - just wasn't nearly as rapturous as others. I can't say off the top of my head what my favorite was. It was not Spock Amok, though. Perhaps the early submarine-style episode?

    In retrospect, I believe my blanket negative bias towards Kurtzman Trek had me on edge from the outset. I was less inclined to watch with a clean slate / open mind and more inclined to watch with the show in my crosshairs. I was looking for trouble and as such, don't think I gave it a fair go.

    To put it simply I let go of all the BS and opted to watch SNW for SNW. I never would have guessed I'd end up enjoying it as much as I have.

    @Shannon
    'But isn't there something to be said for just sitting back and enjoying the fact that we have so much Star Trek to stream?’

    One thing that I do love about the streaming era is that I have the entirety of TOS, the TOS films, TNG, the TNG films, DS9, VOY and even ENT at the touch of a button.

    NuTrek mostly feels like a colossal missed opportunity: I can’t even recall the JJ films. DSC was a huge failure and PIC was for me a huge disappointment. PROD is fine (Hologram Janeway is excellent) but no one seems to be interested in it. LDS is of course great fun and thoroughly enjoyable, but it’s a comedy cartoon (!). So SNW definitely seems to be the best of NuTrek so far, and – aside from quirky outlier LDS – the one that is trying hardest to live up to what most of us would hope for from a Trek series.

    @Shannon
    ‘In the end, aren't we all Star Trek "fans"?’

    I would definitely say so. But I doubt everyone in the ‘fanbase’ would extend that courtesy to others, alas. I’ve recently been re-reading the comments on the earliest DSC episodes to try and recall my own initial response to that series and I came across a lot of interesting perspectives. One comment in particular stood out, by @Jimmy (see below):
    ‘If Strange New Worlds lasts for more than a season, this episode may be the point where the “momentum fandom” was created. The term isn’t ideal, but refers to a fan who evaluates a show not on its content, but on their social feeling of belonging to a group that likes the show. It functions similar to air induction in combustion engines, where the social energy of the fandom fuels its evaluation, creating a death spiral of any definition of quality. These are fans who LOVE LOVE LOVE everything and think this and that is SUPER DUPER.’

    (Source: https://www.jammersreviews.com/comments/?id=96705)

    So we have a new type of ‘fan’ who is less interested in parsing the actual content of the episode and more invested in viscerally defending a show from anyone who would traduce it, because publicly loving a show 100 per cent is an important part of their identity. Any criticism of the show is thereby interpreted as a personal attack on them, and mere disagreement is framed as ‘hate’. So we end up with ‘hate watchers’ versus ‘love watchers’. I would argue that’s part of a thorough polarisation we’re seeing more generally in societies, particularly in the US. The DSC fan was the most obvious example of that - and where are the hardcore DSC fans now? Onto another franchise now, I suspect.

    Let’s go back to Berman-era Trek. I don’t recall any such intractable and absolute division into ‘hate watchers’ or ‘love watchers’ at the time of TNG. There was certainly camps within the fanbase with those who preferred TOS and those who preferred TNG, and a good-natured rivalry. By the time of DS9 the internal fan debate that I personally recall was more about whether one preferred Babylon 5 or DS9. I was and remain a huge fan of VOY, and I am fully aware that many others fans don’t like it. But I never demanded that they like it as much as I did/do, and I never recall anyone being excoriated as a ‘hate watcher’ for drawing attention to VOY’s many deficiencies – and I as a VOY fan was just as happy to criticise VOY as well. Perhaps I am being nostalgic, but I genuinely cannot recall it at the time. (Debates within the fanbase about early ENT and ‘Nemesis’ concerned the declining quality of the franchise, its future direction and the tiredness of it, so aren’t directly relevant here.)

    So in my experience there has been a major shift in what fans expect of one another, which I date to around the time that the JJ films started, with a growing trend of heavily invested ‘love watchers’ expressing unbridled and very personal exasperation with what they perceive to be negativity ('You Trek nerds got what you wanted and you still aren't satisfied. God, shut up and DEAL WITH IT.') This coincided, quite simply, with the era of social media apps, which normalises a more antagonistic, snarky, confrontational, shorter style and the division of *everything* into ‘for’ and ‘against’. It becomes a matter of picking which side you cheer for, and how best to shut your ‘enemy’ up or put 'them' down. That is not conducive to constructive criticism, interesting debate or a healthy fan culture. As @Bryan points out, it is best to have a wide and authentic variety of opinions, which we luckily have here, and that we are all exposed to different viewpoints. That would not even have been controversial a decade or so ago.

    In that vein I’m pleased to see @Caloceptri’s defence of @Quincy’s post here not because I agree with @Quincy’s post (I don’t), but because I have often disagreed with @Caloceptri – and it’s nice to see that we can also agree on broader issues of defending others’ right to express their views, and perhaps many other points too. I also enjoy reading differing opinions on SNW and NuTrek, ranging from adoration to excoriation.

    The "hate crowd" has become nastier in the last few years, with them going on about Hollywood having a woke agenda and that Star Trek has fallen prey to this. They are celebrating that Hollywood is paralyzed by the strikes occurring now.

    For myself, I want a good episode of Star Trek, one that I will watch from beginning to end without having to resort to the FF button to get to the end and see the resolution. I did this once this season, with the episode "Among the Lotus Eaters". I did not like that episode.

    "They are celebrating that Hollywood is paralyzed by the strikes occurring now."
    What??? Several unions banding together to fight corporate greed is pretty left wing. Not everything is about woke or not. Lots of things actually.

    Although I fully agree that comments merelly trashing an episode doesn't offer much opportunity for engagement, I'd like to point out that, sometimes, this isn't due to "laziness" or "bad forum manners": sometimes, we trash an episode just because it is the case that the episode is, in fact, irretrievably bad.

    I like my comments to show why things that people didn't like very much or didn't notice could actually be interesting or cool. Or to suggest adjustments to make episodes better. This episode would be the opposite: If I were to explain why I think this is one of the shitiest things I ever seen in Trek, It would basically be saying why you guys shouldn't like what you did, which isn't a cool thing to do. This is probably why some of us may be being so laconic in our criticisms: we can't help but to show our disliking, but we don't wanna be raining to much on your parade haha

    the love triangle of this show is not fitting for star trek.

    Will Spock really sleep with Chapel five minutes after he takes a break from Tpring? that is not Spock.

    All of a sudden I have a new appreciation of the love triangle from Star Trek 2009. That was more realistic and mature and better suited for star trek characters.

    In that triangle.

    Kirk meets, Uhura, he likes her and chases her for 3 years, just when you think uhura may like Kirk back, it turns out that she and spock have been in a long term relationship and she never had an interest with kirk and Kirk sees that, respects that and back offs from her, respecting that she is already taken. end of the story.

    That love triangle is more suited for star trek.

    Now we have Riverdale meets 90210 Star Trek in SNW, where Spock is a teenage fuck boy, has a girlfriend, takes a break from her and sleeps with another girl 10 minutes after. Also the girl (Chapel) does not mind or ask what his status are with Tpring, she just goes along.

    This is Spock we are talking about? I dont see Kirk bedding two women in the space of 3 days like this but Spock is.

    This show is destroying Spock's character. Peck's Spock lacks the elegance and classiness of Nimoy and Quinto's Spock even in romances.

    As for Chapel. girl you were never destined to be a good female character.

    In TOS
    Your only trait is you had a one sided love for Spock

    In SNW
    You are now his side piece, the other woman, his other girl. Since he never broke it off with tpring.

    so spock and chapel are in a full blown affair, while he is on a break to Tpring.

    This is CW Star Trek.

    @Bok R'Mor

    All valid points. I normally don't read such lengthy posts, but yours was a good one and kept me engaged... I agree that we as a society have fallen into this us against them mentality, for or against, almost a World War I style trench war with neither side gaining any ground, only firing haymakers at one another. I like to find balance in all things, which means you can certainly "take a side", but also engage in thoughtful, civil debate. If ultra conservative President Ronald Reagan and ultra liberal Speaker Tip O'Neill were able to compromise back in the 80s, why can't we do the same today? This win at all costs mentality, even if it means canceling and outright destroying your perceived "political enemies", is counterproductive and downright dangerous.

    Anyway, back to Trek. In the end, I'm just looking for what Sir Patrick Stewart said during an interview about Generations, just "tell a good story". If you didn't enjoy the story, fine, totally your right. But to post a profanity-laced tirade and say the writers "have no fucking clue what Star Trek is" is a level of vitriol that's uncalled for. If you don't like the story, or the series for that matter, just say why in a constructive, civil manner and move on. It's this need to demean and spew venom that I just don't get, almost as though there is an underlying rage driving all of it. Maybe it's that creature that fed on violent thoughts from Day of the Dove! ;-)

    I think saying "the writers have no fucking clue what Star Trek is" is pretty accurate on this case... @Gorn Girl made a pretty good exposition on why the love triangle —which was the whole episode's goal— doesn't work. Now, I would go even further than "the love triangle not fitting for star trek", I think this love triangle isn't good even for a show about love. Aside from forcing Spock (and Chapel) to be out of character, the triangle itself isn't compelling, it has no dilemma. It's just meaningless forced writing.

    And you see, the episode starts with "Spock became all human". Now, this should be an opportunity to a really philosophical episode, to make us think about what it is to be a human, what it is to be vulcan, and what it is to be both — but they've burnt it to make some generic complication to a "meeting her parents" comedy and establish a ridiculous love triangle.

    C'mom guys, let's have some perspective here: a crew of people is in space, THE FINAL FRONTIER, exploring the unknown in a spaceship, and you think "love triangle" (and not even a well done one...) is the story to tell with such setting????

    So yes, we tend to be really forgiving with Trek, but I think it is pretty fair to say this guys have really no fucking clue what Star Trek is — we are all free to like it, and to have fun with it, all right, but let's no fool ourselves that this is being good Trek.

    It’s actually refreshing on here to get multiple perspectives. If you go over to the Star Trek subreddit and say anything even REMOTELY critical they ban you for life immediately. Reddit is a cesspool love fest where any even minor dissent is not tolerated.

    That’s why I keep coming back here.

    Has anyone else had that censorship experience on Reddit?

    I am sorry, I do not really understand. This is not real star trek?
    So, who defines? TOSs was a great mixture of episodes an appraches. Some worked well others not really so.

    I really recognise the charm of Kirk in Pike. But his smile is more, as well as this hairstyle. Now, what is missing?

    Three white men who are supported by a well used engineer and som helm and ops men. And a charming exotic lady in a mini as well as some female Yeomens.

    The world does not look like this anymore. Star trek TOS was a sort of mirror universe of the current society at that time. And I think they did it better than SNW.

    But. to all those who miss the strange new worlds... I agree, I think it would have been better if they had managed to renew it. But that i probably quite difficult.

    @ Maq

    "Three white men who are supported by a well used engineer and som helm and ops men. And a charming exotic lady in a mini as well as some female Yeomens.

    The world does not look like this anymore. Star trek TOS was a sort of mirror universe of the current society at that time. And I think they did it better than SNW."

    Actually, the original Star Trek is known for NOT portraying society as it currently was in the 60's, since the bridge crew was heavilly diversified, just to emphasize how far we've gona as society in the 23rd century, where race and sex no longer inhibit people from fullfiling their potential.

    The new Trek shows ARE portraying the world as it is today, it's simply that our world had caught up with Roddenbery's vision, to a degree, which is a reassuring sign. Regrettebly, the current Trek writers don't go beyond that and show little imagination when portraying this future utopian society. If I was in the writers's room I would ask: "Ok, so the original vision was about the world becoming one, where everyone is equal. Not only is Earth now one peaceful nation, but is also part of a society of peaceful planets. So now, how else can we imagine the future society of Star Trek?"

    I would like to see more episodes like that, tbh. I would like to see currebt Trek imagine the world of Star Trek beyond Roddenbery's original vision from the perspectivve of the 2020's. It's an exciting opportunity that most currebt Trek shows have not realized in earnest.

    @Bok R'Mor: "PROD is fine (Hologram Janeway is excellent) but no one seems to be interested in it."

    I don't think I even know what it is?? I'm intrigued by "Hologram Janeway" though!

    @Colin LIndsly: "The 'hate crowd' has become nastier in the last few years, with them going on about Hollywood having a woke agenda and that Star Trek has fallen prey to this."

    I would say this is fair to an extent, but the nastiness has gotten worse in the other direction too. The people who embrace trans activism get EXTREMELY ticked off by opinions which differfrom theirs and accuse those who have less "enlightened" politics as theirs of being Nazis, claim that this so-called "hate speech" does actual "harm" or makes them "unsafe", etc., instead of just saying "I totally disagree with you and I personally welcome this trend in the entertainment business, which has been a long time coming". Of course, this is because they think they are righteous, on the side of the angels.

    @Booming: "Several unions banding together to fight corporate greed is pretty left wing."

    It's far too simplistic to say "unions vs. corporate greed", so being on the side of the unions is progressive. We're not talking about coal miners here. What we ARE talking about is two groups of well-compensated white collar types battling over resources and policies. I don't believe it's at all clear which side is in the right, and in fact it looks to me like both sides are in the wrong in various ways.

    @F: "[S]ometimes, we trash an episode just because it is the case that the episode is, in fact, irretrievably bad."

    Indeed. I said early and often that the SNW episode where they acted out a children's fairy tale was execrable, possibly the worst episode of any TV show I have seen in my entire life. But I also don't say that week after week, about every single episode. When people do that, I think it's worth raising an eyebrow at them.

    @Gorn girl: "This is CW Star Trek."

    Some storylines/scenes definitely are. Like when they were talking to the cloud aliens inside the rift or whatever it was. I still enjoyed the episode overall though.

    @ThatERguy: "If you go over to the Star Trek subreddit and say anything even REMOTELY critical they ban you for life immediately. Reddit is a cesspool love fest where any even minor dissent is not tolerated."

    Uff da, that doesn't sound good. I will have to check that out, cautiously experiment to see if it's as bad as you say. I use Reddit to talk about other TV shows (most recently, SILO), but it somehow never even occurred to me to go to the Star Trek sub, I suppose because I already posted on Jammer before I ever even joined Reddit.

    @ThatERguy: "If you go over to the Star Trek subreddit and say anything even REMOTELY critical they ban you for life immediately. Reddit is a cesspool love fest where any even minor dissent is not tolerated."

    I've never posted anything on Reddit, but I'm aware it. I think we can all agree that it is patently ridiculous to ban all criticism. If there is cause to do so, such as comments that are overtly racist or homophobic, then I can understand that, but banning comments about not liking an episode is absurd.

    Well, the writers gave themselves a "get out of canon" card (in this case, TOS canon) when they openly admitted in an early episode that SNW is in a new timeline. They can take the Chapel - Spock romance any direction they want.

    I consider TOS to be its own timeline. There are things it shares with other timelines, like Khan's rise to power, but it is its own thing.

    @SlackerInc
    'I don't think I even know what it is?? I'm intrigued by "Hologram Janeway" though!'

    I wasn't sure of the standard abbreviation, but PROD is Star Trek: Prodigy, an animated children's series featuring a non-Starfleet crew who chance upon a derelict Starfleet ship who are then guided by a hologram programme based on Janeway ('Hologram Janeway').

    Being a VOY stalwart (no boos at the back there!) I'm personally quite the fan of Hologram Janeway, but I could take or leave the rest of the show (which isn't aimed at adults). I've watched the first half of S1 but my viewing has stalled, so I really should find time to get back to it.

    Jammer has a review section on it:
    https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-prodigy/

    @Colin LIndsly

    "Well, the writers gave themselves a "get out of canon" card (in this case, TOS canon) when they openly admitted in an early episode that SNW is in a new timeline. "

    Which episode was that?

    "Well, the writers gave themselves a "get out of canon" card (in this case, TOS canon) when they openly admitted in an early episode that SNW is in a new timeline. They can take the Chapel - Spock romance any direction they want."

    That did not happen.

    @SlackerInc
    " The people who embrace trans activism get EXTREMELY ticked off by opinions which differfrom theirs and accuse those who have less "enlightened" politics as theirs of being Nazis, claim that this so-called "hate speech" does actual "harm" or makes them "unsafe", etc., instead of just saying "I totally disagree with you and I personally welcome this trend in the entertainment business, which has been a long time coming"
    Ok, so people get angry about this because there is a veritable threat to trans people, while there is no threat to the people fighting against that minority. Russia three days ago has banned all gender transitions, essentially making being trans illegal and right wing voices in the USA are starting to shift from no care for minors (which is already bad) to banning all gender affirming care, as those trans activists have told you all along. It's about legislating trans people out of existence. While you claim to be "both sides" which I still find wrong, you most of the time write negative things about the people fighting for the rights of a persecuted minority, while I do not remember you ever saying anything negative about tens of millions who support the hundreds of anti trans laws in the USA or the hateful rhetoric and discriminatory policy goals of several presidential candidates.
    Russia
    https://apnews.com/article/russia-lgbtq-rights-crackdown-gender-transitioning-b2ec309dc33f2dc3c2d43bd0e2e90670
    USA
    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article277322158.html

    The whole Bud light thing is a good example what this is all really about. That person was just in a clip for this company, it was not about children or sports and the product is obviously aimed at adults. There was also no political message whatsoever. So yeah, people where shooting at beer bottles with machine guns because they just saw a trans person. Seeing a trans person was all it took to make millions of people boycott a company. I really wonder what it will take for you "both sides" people to say that one side is actually wrong.

    " I don't believe it's at all clear which side is in the right, and in fact it looks to me like both sides are in the wrong in various ways."
    Ok, I'll bite. Give us your both sides. In what way are the global media conglomerates Disney, Netflix and Paramount Global in the right? In what way are the writing and acting unions?

    @Colin LIndsly “Well, the writers […] openly admitted in an early episode that SNW is in a new timeline.”
    @Jeffrey's Tube “That did not happen.”

    I think the claim of a separate timeline is not without foundation. Remember the dialogue from TOS “Space Seed”:
    SPOCK: The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.
    MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars.
    SPOCK: Of course. Your attempt to improve the race through selective breeding.

    The wording implies that Spock and McCoy agree about the following three points: The last World Was was fought in the 1990s, it was the Eugenics War, and Khan played an important rôle in it. All three points, however, have been rendered moot by later shows:

    *) VOY had a time-travel episode “Future’s End”, where the Voyager crew visited the 1990 and found no war, but rather a pros­perous pla­net with boom­ing com­puter chip industry (due to the effect of an­other time travel). None of the crew is sur­prised about that. Also, “11:59” is set in 1999 and makes no men­­tion of a recent war.

    *) “First Contact” the movie shows the first official visit of Vulcans to Earth in 2063, ap­proxi­mate­ly a decade after the end the World War III. It seems un­like­ly that an age of war could have star­ted in the 1990s and lasted up to the 2050s. Therefore the two conflicts are probably separate. Moreover, TOS “The Savage Curtain” men­tions Colonel Green, “who led a geno­cidal war early in the 21st cen­tury on Earth”, and SNW “Strange New Worlds” has Pike’s enig­matic line “We called it the Second Civil War, then the Eu­ge­nics War, and finally just World War III” which I think refers to three dis­tinct pha­ses of the con­flict: First one inside the USA, then esca­lat­ing via the Aug­ments, and finally open war of ever­y­one against ever­yone.

    * Finally, SNW “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” has a time travel to the 2020s when we meet Khan as a child, so no chance to have a Eu­ge­nics War with him in the 1990s. Moreover, the Ro­mu­lan villainess tries to kill Khan in order to pre­vent hu­ma­ni­ty’s pro­gress and rants “But, yeah, so many people have tried to in­flu­en­ce these events (=the Eugenics Wars?), you know, to delay them or stop them. I mean, whole tem­po­ral wars have been fought over them. And it's al­most as if time itself is push­ing back, and events re­in­sert them­sel­ves. And all this was sup­pos­ed to hap­pen back in 1992, and I've been trap­ped here for 30 years try­ing to get my shot at him.”

    I read the Romulan Rant™ as follows: When the agent took over her as­sign­ment, Romulan history books claimed that Khan was politi­cally and mili­tari­ly active in 1992. There­fore, she was sent to ≈1990 in order to assas­si­nate him. Yet, some TCW faction tam­pered with history so that Khan’s life­time, and thus also the Eu­ge­nics War, was shifted back for about three decades.

    Then, we would have two different timelines: One with the Eugenics Wars in the 1990s an the other in the 2020s. TOS would be situated in the former and SNW in the latter. Some fans have indeed made arguments of that kind, notably the Nit­picking Nerd at Youtube.

    However, I do not consider that a viable interpretations because it poses more ques­tions that it ans­wers. For, if true, this inter­pre­ta­tion en­tails that VOY, and by ex­ten­sion TNG and DS9, take place in the second time­line where the Eu­ge­nics Wars hap­pen­ed in the 2020s, and the status of ENT is diffi­cult to as­cer­tain; the only Star Trek show certainly at home in the 1990s timeline is TOS. Thus, the in­tend­ed effect of free­ing the cur­rent authors from con­tinu­i­ty con­straints are great­ly di­lut­ed, as they can get rid only of TOS con­tinu­i­ty (which Rod­den­berry him­self did much ea­si­er by simp­ly claim­ing that TOS was oc­ca­sio­nal­ly in­ac­cu­ra­te in its de­pic­ti­ons), not TNG, DS9 or VOY.

    Moreover, should we come up with different timelines for every incon­sis­ten­cy? TNG “The Neutral Zone” has vessels capable of super­­lumi­nal flight avail­able in ≈1995, similar to TOS “Space Seed”, which both invalidate Coch­rane’s place in history. Should we place those in a different timeline than “First Con­­tact” the movie or TOS “Meta­mor­pho­sis” (or ENT “Re­gene­ra­tion”)? That way mad­ness lies.

    So, in short: I agree with Jeffrey’s Tube that the multiple timeline expla­na­ti­on is rubbish. But I do also agree with Colin LIndsly that the writers toyed with the idea of sel­ling such rub­bish, or per­haps even attempted to probe fan reac­­tions to this out­lan­dish idea.

    @Bok R'Mor
    "I don't recall seeing any of that in the latest episode of SNW."
    It's in there, trust me.

    The thing with those both sides people like SlackerInc just drives me crazy. I mean, I get it. There is a persecuted minority and lots of people who hate them. This minority being persecuted does not impact his life but being called out for stating mildly hostile or uninformed talking points does impact him. That is why these people always say negative things about trans activists or BLM but never about politicians and activists trying to destroy or limit the rights of these minorities.

    If he wouldn't bring it up, I wouldn't react to it. Same about the current strike situation. You might think that it is better for this forum to look the other way when people vilify this or that but I disagree. I'm just a very emotional person.

    This was fun. Lotus Eaters was the high concept strange planet Trek trope, and this was the fun out-of-character sitcom Trek trope. Both are essential elements of the whole Trek narrative spectrum, and both IMO were solidly executed. When his pointy ears were revealed to be smoothed over, it just put a big smile on my face.

    I might've said this after "Spock Amok", but Ethan Peck really has won me over as a credible Spock. I also don't mind that *many* Vulcans are smug superior racist pricks, but not *all*. They're a diverse bunch, like humans! T'Pring's dad, while reminding me a little too much of the King of Hearts from Disney's Alice in Wonderland, seems like a swell dude!

    I also enjoyed the intentional repetition in the montage mapping changes in Spock. It showed the ensemble cast simply chilling together. Unlike DIS, SNW has been doing a better job depicting its characters as more than just people manning consoles and reporting shield percentages. They feel like real, fairly dorky people, like the TNG ensemble.

    @Booming
    "Ok, I'll bite. Give us your both sides. In what way are the global media conglomerates Disney, Netflix and Paramount Global in the right? In what way are the writing and acting unions?"

    Thanks for posing this important question.

    My artist side sees the danger immediately, and I accept as valid the arguments adduced by SAG and SWG with respect to the potential misuse of AI. In my field it was present years before AI was even a thought. Contract language has to be developed equitably and with transparency. Perpetuity is a real problem and not all so-called white-collar creative people are so fairly compensated. This is by no means a new problem. Voyager did that image-stealing con-game episode "Live Fast and Prosper" back in 2000. And then we have the ctrl+c ctrl+v problem with the EMH, presto-- a new slave population. It's that easy.

    @UESPA_Sputnik

    Yeah... the bureaucratic alien thing was great. Very Douglas Adams-y, but in a tone that fits ST.

    Agree on wardrobe, and actually was thinking the same thing while watching. The episodes, good or bad, all have had top notch threads. Garak would definitely approve.

    @Colin LIndsly: "[The writers] openly admitted in an early episode that SNW is in a new timeline."

    What episode and scene was this?

    @Bok R'Mor: Ah, I see why I ignored it, if it's a kids' show.

    @Booming: So your self-imposed moratorium on talking to me has expired?

    Sigh2000: "My artist side sees the danger immediately, and I accept as valid the arguments adduced by SAG and SWG with respect to the potential misuse of AI."

    We're not talking about an AI writing scripts from scratch. Realistically, what it would be is an AI generating story ideas and then mocking up outlines and maybe storyboards for a couple writers to make into a final product, instead of using five writers. Which, then, sure: you can say "the AI put 60 percent of the writers out of work", but how is that different from typesetters, or the "math rooms" my US government civil engineer grandfather sent his math to as he worked on big reservoir/dam projects. They had all these people (many women) sitting at desks with slide rules to do what a few years later would just be punched into a scientific calculator. Multiplying human effort via technology is the way we have always advanced, and the only way we will progress to a Federation/Starfleet level civilization.

    More specifically in the case of TV shows, it would allow more of a show's budget to be spent on locations and VFX, while the final form of scripts would be handed in by the very best writers in the business. The end product for the consumer (i.e., us, the viewers) would be improved. I don't see the need to stand in the way of that just to maintain a maximum employment regime for upper-middle-class writers.

    @SlackerInc
    "More specifically in the case of TV shows, it would allow more of a show's budget to be spent on locations and VFX, while the final form of scripts would be handed in by the very best writers in the business."

    Thanks (oh and I should have said SAG and WGA earlier on). You've presented some interesting thoughts about the future role of AI in the industry (its efficiencies let us say). I agree that progress often leaves people behind. As with many advances, there are good and bad outcomes.

    I remain sympathetic to those who feel that their own intellectual property and livelihoods are compromised.

    I can be sympathetic to them as well, without necessarily believing that they should get their way in the contract negotiations.

    @Bryan

    "Presumably because Nurse Chapel is so smokin' hot, she dazzles Spock's human side to the extent that it even bypasses his Vulcan logic."

    No one is crying about the white catsuit, are they? I know I'm not.

    @SlackerInc

    "T'Pring is hotter."

    I wouldn't throw either of them out of bed for eating crackers, but I'm in the Bryan camp. T'Pring needs to eat a burger ... lol Jess' eyes and the underlying Auzie do it for me.

    Am I allowed to enjoy this episode right up to when Spock removes his ears? Spock (and everyone) bent over backward to basically kiss T'Pril's ass and then Spock just says "@#$@$ that"? T'Pring agrees with Spock's logic for not telling her his problem, but she still "feels" the need for some apart time? I thought this was approaching a 4-star episode until the end.

    Pike is turning into a joke. Just imagine how Kirk would have sold the charade ruse... Of course, Pike can't act like an alpha male... we can't have that.

    Why wasn't Una involved with the solution here? Sidelined again.

    Nurse Chappel was more of the lead medical officer here in this episode than M/Benga was.

    How did the shuttle enter that thingy without hurting anyone?

    The visuals were frellin amazing. Man, what a tool that wall is.

    But the ending killed it for me. With these writers I've always expected Chappel and Spock to hook up, I just don't like how it was done here.

    2.5 stars from me.

    Oh... as for the strike...

    Strike for mo $$$$$ ... sure, go for it.

    But they had better nail down the AI thing. AI can put every writer out of a job in minutes...

    @Maq
    "I am sorry, I do not really understand. This is not real star trek?
    So, who defines? TOSs was a great mixture of episodes an appraches. Some worked well others not really so."

    Sure, we can use "the Trek setting" to tell all kinds of stories.
    But there is a group of stories ONLY TREK CAN TELL, stories that utilize "the Trek setting"'s elements to their full, or at least stories that Trek can tell better or with an interesting take — and I think those are the ones we should be pursuing, those are the "real trek".

    I think "A Quality of Mercy" to be an excellent example of such.
    "Charades"? Meh, hardly good tv at all, let alone good Trek...

    Now, I'm not claiming this to be the Ultimate Definitive Answer to What Star Trek Is, but I think THERE IS an objective answer to that, so if mine isn't good enough, ok, but let's strive for one that is.

    I may criticize the wokeness of nuTrek from time to time, but there is a strange casting decision they made that actually deserves criticism from the left. Mia Kirshner and Ethan Peck are only eleven years apart in age, and it's all the worse when you consider that Vulcans (and presumably, half-Vulcans) are supposed to age more slowly than humans. I thought that kind of arched eyebrow mother-son casting went out with "The Graduate".

    @Yanks
    "AI can put every writer out of a job in minutes..."

    If the writing is merely driving the plot from point A to B, like most shows today, probably... But if it is to be something with, lets say, more soul, I'm not so sure...

    My point about the sheer hotness of Nurse Chapel influencing Spock's possibly ill-advised choices wasn't meant to trigger a referendum on the relative attractiveness of this or that character/actress when compared to each other. It was only to suggest that Spock, being half-human, would naturally be susceptible to the temptations of other women, especially if she happen to be really hot and they have the time and the opportunity to get to know each other since they work in close quarters. Basically, Spock would not be completely impervious to the triggers that lead to affairs even if logic dictated otherwise. He may have gotten away with it this time, but it was quite a struggle to get to the point where it would be kinda-sorta okayish, just as it happens with many humans.

    @ThatERGuy "Has anyone else had that censorship experience on Reddit?"

    I got a 7-day ban from the StarTrek reddit for "not being constructive", though I'm sure those offering pithy "loved it!" were not given similar notice. It's a joke.

    @F

    "If the writing is merely driving the plot from point A to B, like most shows today, probably... But if it is to be something with, lets say, more soul, I'm not so sure..."

    Just give it time.

    What to see where AI is today? Great video here.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brQLpTnDwyg&t=522s

    @Yanks

    Hey, nice channel, I'm already watching other videos from him. Now, I'm not gonna deny AI risks, and the worst part is that it don't even need to be "self aware" to do the evils that are being theorized: it can do it just "dumbly", "mechanically". But be aware of the type of source you're getting your information from. News, youtube channels, podcasts... they are not here to inform you with the boring highly technical discussion, which is central to actually understand this, they are in the ENTERTAINMENT business. There is (or not hehe...) a huge gap between the AI we have, the AI we can have, and the all-powerful-possible AI that they are talking about.

    Now, coming back to Trek, wouldn't it be really cool to see your video idea's being brought on a Trek episode? Like they interacting with such an "horror scenario AI" on some alien planet? That is what a modern Sci-Fi show be talking about, but instead we are getting warm "Teenager Trek" about Spock crying, a capitancy based on cooking dinner, reusing Klingons and Romulans on everything... Just sad.

    @ SlackerInc

    "I may criticize the wokeness of nuTrek from time to time, but there is a strange casting decision they made that actually deserves criticism from the left. Mia Kirshner and Ethan Peck are only eleven years apart in age, and it's all the worse when you consider that Vulcans (and presumably, half-Vulcans) are supposed to age more slowly than humans. I thought that kind of arched eyebrow mother-son casting went out with "The Graduate"."

    Mia Kirshner is roughly the correct age for Amanda. Ethan Peck is actually not the correct age for Spock.

    Spock should be 29 in 2259 (and look a little younger probably, being Vulcan). Ethan Peck is 37. Amanda is probably supposed to be around 52 years old in 2259. Mia Kirschner is 48 years old.

    Peck being too old for Spock at this point in his (Spock's) life is something I've noted but personally does not distract me. Partly because the age adds to the "Vulcan" angular features of his face and partly because he does such a good job inhabiting the youthful headspace of the character; and partly, I suppose, because with modern Hollywood anti-aging treatments and makeup, he looks much younger than Nimoy did despite them being roughly the same age when they started playing the role (and hey, not smoking also probably helps). You can see Peck's age when you look at the backs of his hands (age = bonier hands), but otherwise, not so much.

    . . .

    Paul Wesley is playing Kirk and he's age 40. Kirk should be 26 years old in 2059. That one's a bit more distracting, in my opinion. Still it isn't the age difference that I find makes his Kirk fall short of the portrayal I would like to see.

    . . .

    If anyone doesn't know (I don't know how much Discovery you've seen), Mia Kirschner played Amanda in Seasons 1 & 2 of Discovery, too. James Frain played Sarek. Spock and Sarek did not meaningfully interact in Discovery because Spock and Sarek are famously estranged at this point in their histories and will be until Journey to Babel. Presumably that is why only Amanda appeared in this episode as well.

    I don't know why the show is okay with bending the Spock-T'Pring relationship and the Spock-Chapel relationship but seemingly not okay with bending the Spock-Sarek relationship to allow them to interact, too. It wouldn't seem to be that much more of a significant bend than those two relationships.

    But maybe it is. T'Pring belonged to a single episode. Chapel was an irrelevant character in TOS. Sarek is a legend, and Spock's relationship with him is arguably defining to each of them. Still, I think I would argue that if the show thinks it has a good enough Spock-Sarek story, it should do it, and that this continuity point isn't so important as to override that. They don't have to have strictly not spoken like Spock says in Journey to Babel in order to not be reconciled in their relationship during this time period. In my opinion.

    @F

    A message episode about AI replacing people on a "planet of the week" that's sort of meta about the writers' strike has a lot of potential. Maybe the writers will be inspired by what they went through when they return.

    I have to confess that I don’t know what a story that “only Star Trek can tell” is. Does this mean no other show with the “Roddenberry ethos” (TM) can exist, that there is room for only property called Star Trek that meets the foundational elements du jour? I hope not.

    So many people have claimed that whatever *they* are watching “is NOT Star Trek” (chin pointed upward) that you could feed their definitions of what Star Trek is to ChatGPT, then ask it “what is Star Trek,” and have it come up literally arguing with itself, or concluding “nothing is Star Trek.”

    As critic Darren Mooney points out on them0vieblog.com, Voyager is an example of a series whose stories could be told in almost any or the at-the-time existing shows (take season 4 ‘s Nemesis. Couldn’t that have been a Riker-focused tale on TNG? Couldn’t Ensign Ro have worked as the central character in VOY’s “Remember”? Couldn’t Data have been in on “The Voyager Conspiracy”? “Star Trek” is not whatever a given fan happens to dislike at the moment - how could it be when characters and situations are so…fungible? Must an episode of Voyager, to count as “Star Trek Voyager,“ be one that can *only* be told on Voyager? Is “Remember” out because its premise is arguably adaptable to several of the other shows?

    Are we going to limit “Star Trek” solely to morality tales, with only the first iterations of those stories counting? “Where No Man Has Gone Before “ was (to me; it’s all subjective in the first place) a good illustration of the maxim, “Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Does that definitionally cast out Bread and Circuses and Patterns of Force and Who Mourns for Apollo, arguably variations on the theme, because they aired after WNMHGB? Also, what if a viewer recognizes a story as a morality tale but finds the story to be terrible? Does that story get in as “ Star Trek” while a story that has no readily apparent morality to the viewer get the boot, no matter how good it is? I find not much of what Roddenberry (who has been dead for over more than 30 years, and who first told us Starfleet crew members have verbal disagreements all the time, and who later told us, “Actually, they don’t,” whoops) described in writing that Star Trek “is,” to be present in DS9’s “In the Cards.” So that means it isn’t Star Trek? (Or, it is something else? - if so, what??). As Picard said, “By whose calculations?”

    The argument that “Star Trek” is only an episode that is “inherent to Star Trek as a show” is ultimately tautological in any event.

    I don't know. This episode doesn't look particularly convincing or interesting, like Peck's human performance tbh. Almost unwatchable, but we do care about the characters and this is enough to go through it, I suppose.

    RE: SpoChapel

    What the SNW writers were hoping I'd do: "OH MY GOD" (freaks out)

    What I did: "Oh my God." (facepalms)

    It just seems like they're trying to get a rise out of people, with this development. I mean, I get it; it was right there, and how could they not go with that as a plot development, but still... It seems overtly sensational on the face of it, clickbait fodder. Plus, how about Leila Kaloumi? Is she just vanished from the face of the universe?

    And ANYWAY!!

    If the whole idea of the Vulcan Mating Ritual is that at a certain point, Spock undergoes Pohn Fahr and HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO MATE OR DIE, then this is all moot, whether T'Prell approves, whether he's snogging Chapel, whether T'Pring wants to get married to him or not...that's kind of the point of her scheming in Amok Time, in the first place, is she needed a way out, and Kirk conveniently presented himself. She knew if Spock killed his best friend, he would reject her, and even if he didn't, he'd be off in space doing stuff...and Ston would still be there.

    This is all a lot of flash bang whizz pow fireworks, and really not much else.

    @starman

    I got a permanent ban from Star Trek subreddit for criticizing discovery. And for making a comment that it’s crazy to called Captain Pike ableist because he doesn’t want to be paralyzed. Permaban. 🫠

    @Caloceptri hope you can maybe check out my response to you whenever you can and maybe give feedback.

    @jammer

    My understanding of the revelation about the shields was that Spock had protected Chapel by diverting the shields, not the other way around.

    Hope you enjoyed your vacation, Jammer!

    A minor correction to note for your review: it was Spock who diverted the shields to save Chapel, rather than the other way around.

    I'm also shocked you didn't bring up the Fun With DNA™ aspect of it all, since I remember well how much you hated it back in the VOY days, heh. But then again, I suppose most of those legacy examples of the trope were in service of groanworthy plots with no character development to recommend them. If nothing else, SNW rarely takes its eye off that particular ball.

    @Jammer

    "and, indeed, right before the shuttle crash, she had diverted the shields to save Spock at the possible cost of her own life."

    It was the other way around. Chapel learns that Spock had diverted the shields to protect her, which is why he was injured and had to be healed by the aliens.

    Point taken, @JeffreysTube. I still think there's something very awkward, and implicitly insulting, about casting a woman to play a "mom" role, and having her show up on set to find out her "son" is only eleven years younger than she is (even if she doesn't realize this is even weirder due to his playing a species that is supposed to age more slowly). I can't think of any case where a male actor was cast to play the dad of a daughter played by an actor only a decade younger than he.

    @Jammer, good review. Lines up almost perfectly with my impression of the episode.

    @Caloceptri
    "The argument that “Star Trek” is only an episode that is “inherent to Star Trek as a show” is ultimately tautological in any event."

    Yeah, but although it may seem like it, that's not what I've said...

    Trek has a "setting", and by that I mean the set of elements constituting what we call trek's universe. So, what are those elements? Conveniently for us, they are pretty much laid out in the intro: people on spaceships, on a mission to explore strange new worlds to seek out new lifeforms to boldly go etc etc.

    There is more to them, sure, and we can debate which things exactly constitute those elements, which are more central and which not, but the point is: a set of them DO EXIST.

    Now, we can use this setting to tell all kinds of stories —and we can tell them badly or really well, that's not the point—, in the same way we could tell a story about, let's say, hot dudes illegal street racing in a Harry Potter's setting. Could we do it? Probably. I don't know how, but could it even be a well written and executed story? Possibly. All right. But would that be a good use of HP's setting? I don't think so.

    Likewise on Trek. You have people in a spaceship exploring the unknown. You can talk about what strange things they will encounter, tough decisions they will face, can talk about life on such isolation, how to manage a crew in such stressful conditions, can use the strange new worlds been visited to highlight what makes us, us... these are examples of types of stories "only trek can tell". Again, you could tell them well or badly, but tell them.

    What about "Spock became human for a day and had to fake being vulcan to complete a "meeting her parents" ritual but in the end the relationship blew anyway, and now he kissed the other girl while being on a break with the other"? Even if you enjoyed the episode (i.e. you think they told this story well), tell me sincerely: Is that what one should expect in a setting about being in the final frontier boldly going where no one has gone before?

    The Kerkhovian entities were the rules-obsessed Sheliak Corporate from TNG's "The Ensigns of Command" mixed with the non-corporeal Calamarain from "Deja Q", with a generous dash of present-day AI customer service.

    @SlackerInc
    "So your self-imposed moratorium on talking to me has expired?"
    Honey, normally I don't talk to people who have been banned from a discussion forum for antisemitism and the believe that black people have 15 IQ points less because of their inferior genes but I actually kind of forgot that I was ignoring you. I'm still puzzled why you showed me those posts.
    I'll try to remember the ignoring. Well, to be honest, I might still comment on some of your more "regular topics".

    @F

    Imo the answer to the ultimate “what IS Star Trek?” question is simply:

    To explore what it means to be human through science fiction.

    And on that level I think Strange New Worlds is overall doing just fine. This is why I personally don’t like the Abrams films, they basically neglect this entirely. Sure Charades was a sitcom episode wrapped in a Trek package, but it still felt very Trek to me. I can get behind the idea that I’d like to see them do something really interesting an unique to the setting the show takes place in, something that no Trek has done yet, for sure. But this episode was inoffensive at worst, and just a simple fun hour of TV behind it. Even if I didn’t like it, I’d just move on to the next episode.

    I believe next week is the Uhura episode, and I have high hopes for it.

    Why is it that vulcans are now portrayed as jerks? Wasn't the point of 1 of the enterprise arcs was that they stop being jetks at this point?

    @F

    "Now, we can use this setting to tell all kinds of stories —and we can tell them badly or really well, that's not the point—, in the same way we could tell a story about, let's say, hot dudes illegal street racing in a Harry Potter's setting. Could we do it? Probably. I don't know how, but could it even be a well written and executed story? Possibly. All right. But would that be a good use of HP's setting? I don't think so.

    Likewise on Trek. You have people in a spaceship exploring the unknown. You can talk about what strange things they will encounter, tough decisions they will face, can talk about life on such isolation, how to manage a crew in such stressful conditions, can use the strange new worlds been visited to highlight what makes us, us... these are examples of types of stories "only trek can tell". Again, you could tell them well or badly, but tell them.

    What about "Spock became human for a day and had to fake being vulcan to complete a "meeting her parents" ritual but in the end the relationship blew anyway, and now he kissed the other girl while being on a break with the other"? Even if you enjoyed the episode (i.e. you think they told this story well), tell me sincerely: Is that what one should expect in a setting about being in the final frontier boldly going where no one has gone before?"

    That's fair. I don't know that I agree, but it's fair.

    I'm reminded of that Voyager episode where Janeway tells the story of her ancestor who came to a town building the Millennium Gate (11:59). Nothing happens except the ancestor falls in love with the owner of a bookshop. Was that a good execution of that kind of story? Maybe, although I don't think so. Should an episode of Star Trek have been used to tell that story? No. It's a zero star episode for me, and your reasoning is exactly why. (Jammer on the other hand gave it three stars? Wow.)

    On the OTHER other hand, one of my favorite episodes of DS9 involves the crew playing baseball on the holosuite. Hmmm.

    Okay, the DS9 episode had many "Star Trek" elements to it as does this episode Charades. 11:59 has practically zero. Maybe my threshold for what it is meaningful to use the setting/premise for is just different from yours, but that still validates that there IS a threshold to consider.

    . . .

    Charades is a "quiet moments" episode meant to reveal character. I would argue Star Trek is greatly diminished without such episodes. If DS9 was all Sacrifice of Angels, would we care? Probably not. It is, after all, probably the main issue with Discovery stopping people from connecting with that show on a deeper level.

    Man, I have all kinds of errors this week, don't I? Should've stayed on vacation.

    It was a very TOS-feeling plot, with strange godlike aliens turning Spock into a full human. It sounds like something you'd see in a TOS season.

    The whole of it was just okay. So far, nothing this season has been exemplary. Pike's snap and point near the end of the episode was the only time I chuckled. I prefer Trek when it's humor is derived from character compatibility (or lack thereof) and not when it's trying to have situational comedy or joke setups and payoffs, etc.

    This season has been a step down from the first.

    @Yanks

    --
    "Pike is turning into a joke. Just imagine how Kirk would have sold the charade ruse... Of course, Pike can't act like an alpha male... we can't have that."

    Can you be more specific or provide a couple of examples? He seems decently alpha to me already from a western/USA perspective. In the last episode, he was beating people up and shooting his way through in order to get his memory back. In the Season 1 finale, he was ready to break another officer's arm to keep his Number One. He's not, like, _super_ alpha, but I think alpha enough.

    --
    "T'Pring needs to eat a burger"

    I like skinny girls. 😊 Please leave some room for my differing tastes 😆

    @Lynos

    "Actually, the original Star Trek is known for NOT portraying society as it currently was in the 60's, since the bridge crew was heavilly diversified, just to emphasize how far we've gona as society in the 23rd century, where race and sex no longer inhibit people from fullfiling their potential."

    Yes and no. White american men had the main roles. A suportive Scotsman whas perhaps not so controversial but Sulu Cheov and Uhura did definetly provide something more than the usual.

    But I did not say that it was portraying the current society. It did definetly reflect on it. It definetly made an impact that probably not can be repeated.

    I agree with that new trek is not so provocative, but the gender provocation seems to trigger some quite notable.

    I would like more. Black mirror on Netflix have done some real good episodes. Still, I can definetly enjoy SNW in the way that it is.

    @F

    "I think "A Quality of Mercy" to be an excellent example of such.
    "Charades"? Meh, hardly good tv at all, let alone good Trek..."

    TOS had some really poor episodes. And was it not for the nostaliga I would probably not enjoy them so much. We tend to compare and relate to the top TOS and forgets the poor episodes.

    All 15 episodes in SNW so far has been whatchable and enjoyable. Some very good, I also liked "A Quality of Mercy". No episode has been completely bad. It was irritating that I did not like " Among the Lotus Eaters". I very much liked the concept but to me it did not work.

    I would like more Sci-Fy. The exploring of the characters is interesting but was the intense kiss between Chappel and Spok neccesaray? I don't want to watch a Space lovestory.

    @ThatERguy

    I get what you're saying about the characters not returning in TOS, but M'Benga doesn't fit that description. He is still on the Enterprise in TOS; he's played by Booker Bradshaw in both "A Private Little War" and "That Which Survives". When SNW was announced he was the character I was most looking forward to because we never got to know him that well.

    I really wish they had set this show in a different universe. That way we wouldn’t have to worry about reconciling storylines and characters with what we know comes later. The writers would be free to do what they wanted. Pike’s accident wouldn’t hang over him, Paul Wesley’s Kirk wouldn’t become captain of the Enterprise, and Spock would be free to explore his human side without the show being constrained by the events of Amok Time. I know others don’t care for the Spock/Chapel relationship because it feels like something from a CW show. I actually think it’s worth delving into if it adds more layers to the Spock character. But if it’s being done to satisfy the shippers, then it’s pointless.

    @SlackerInc
    Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 1:42pm (UTC -5)

    "Sigh2000: "My artist side sees the danger immediately, and I accept as valid the arguments adduced by SAG and SWG with respect to the potential misuse of AI."

    We're not talking about an AI writing scripts from scratch. Realistically, what it would be is an AI generating story ideas and then mocking up outlines and maybe storyboards for a couple writers to make into a final product, instead of using five writers. Which, then, sure: you can say "the AI put 60 percent of the writers out of work", but how is that different from typesetters, or the "math rooms" my US government civil engineer grandfather sent his math to as he worked on big reservoir/dam projects. They had all these people (many women) sitting at desks with slide rules to do what a few years later would just be punched into a scientific calculator. Multiplying human effort via technology is the way we have always advanced, and the only way we will progress to a Federation/Starfleet level civilization."




    What's going to happen with AI is unlike anything that came before. It's going to put so many people out of work in so many different industries that society simply will not be able to repurpose workers to keep up with the amount of unemployment. And it's going to accelerate at an ever increasing rate. This right here is just the beginning. This is NOTHING like typesetters or human computers or ANYTHING we've ever experienced. 60% of writers out of work is one thing. But we're about to see 60% of truck drivers out of work. 60% of taxi drivers out of work. We're going to see it in healthcare, agriculture, marketing, finance, manufacturing, logistics, automobile engineering, electronic engineering, construction, law enforcement, military, etc. All at the same time.

    We've got a serious problem. We're actually already embroiled in an arms race. Every one is working on AI. That's going to accelerate its development at the cost of proper protocols for security. And it doesn't even have to reach the point of true authentic AI. That's what people don't understand. We don't have to create Data for problems to arise. Human capabilities are being exceeded in real time right in front of our eyes with the most rudimentary AI.

    I originally thought we'd have more time to advance neuroscience and find ways to increase human intelligence. That's what we need. We literally have to become smart enough as a species to deal with problems that we've already created that are ALREADY on the way to killing us. AI is just one of those problems. And we simply do not understand its emergent behaviors once it scales past a certain point. The outlook looks bleak at this point.

    To be honest, I was hoping Pike would suggest a round of Fizzbin rather than charades--but the rules are rather complex & pretty much known to only one person ;)

    Comity? Am I the only one who never heard that word before--or is it pretty rare? '

    And why do ppl think TOS season 3 is not good--other than maybe the Hippie episode it seems great--as good as season 1 and 2--why do ppl not like it--which other eps do ppl think were bad--it had some of the best, nost unique and ORIGINAL ALIENS of all 3 seasons like the Tholians, the Zetarians, the medusans, The Empath alien, the black and white aliens forgot their name unique alien worlds like the Asteroid dome ship and the Time Library Planet

    Haha, I forgot about Fizzbin.

    @F: "Is that what one should expect in a setting about being in the final frontier boldly going where no one has gone before?"

    Occasionally, if executed well, I think it's a nice change of pace. But maybe where we can meet partway is that I do think it shouldn't be done more than occasionally.

    @Booming: "Honey..."

    Aww, aren't you sweet. ::blows Booming a kiss::

    @Jeffrey's Tube: As chance would have it, the very slow curated "rewatch" (I am unsure how many of the episodes I actually saw the first time in the Nineties) I have been doing with my wife and daughters of VOY for several years now has "Someone to Watch Over Me" next in line, and I see "11:59" is the episode right after that--although it was not previously part of that curation. You would probably say it should stay off the list, but now your sharp disagreement with Jammer has me curious enough to put it on there. So I guess I'll find out which way I lean soon...ish (sometimes we go months between episodes, with the longest gap going from Dec. 2021 to January 2023, as you can see by scanning for my name in Jammer's comments sections for that series).

    @Maq: "All 15 episodes in SNW so far has been whatchable and enjoyable...No episode has been completely bad."

    I beg to differ. "All Those Who Wander" was not very watchable or enjoyable, but it had a few redeeming elements. "The Elysian Kingdom" was a travesty, a blight against everything we (should) hold dear. There were two others I found a bit lackluster but not too bad; eight I thought were decent, solid, good episodes; and three I would call excellent. A very good ratio to be sure (far better than DISCO or PIC), but not quite the unblemished record you are describing.

    @Quincy: None of what you are describing is news to me. I actually created a thread about this on the SDMB more than a decade ago. Lots of interesting musings on there, actually, check it out: https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-when-the-robots-peacefully-take-over/608914

    I just don't think it's necessarily a bad thing in the long run for humans to be largely freed of the need to have jobs (or for the economy to be freed of the need to use humans as a key element of production). It's the transitional stage that could be a bit messy, just as the Industrial Revolution was.

    None of which adds up to my being impressed that screenwriters' attempt to hold a hard line against the use of AI in creating TV shows is something I should support.

    @Leif: I wouldn't call "comity" a "rare" word, although it's probably not one your average Joe Sixpack throws around. I recall someone on the Hacks on Tap podcast (which is about campaigns and electoral politics) using it within the past couple weeks, although he had to clarify what word he meant as in audio form it can easily sound the same as "comedy".

    But according to Ctrl-F, you were the first one to use it in this comment section (including Jammer's review), so where did that come from exactly?

    If this episode had an EXTENDED RUN TIME why didn't they use that time to EXPLORE/LEARN MORE about the KERKHOVIAN ALIENS??! Not to beat my hobby horse bit that's just more evidence and justification forme that they could hsve..hopefully they will. Ring these aliens back again..and BRING BACK HEMMER ALREADY!! Anyone else suspect Hemmer will be put in stasis by the Gorn or something and Bruce Horak will actually coke back as resurrected Hemmer hopefully?

    @Jammer why have you never reviewed The Cage ironically enough? Did you forget or something? Has anyone else wondered or does anyone know? Your site will never be truly complete without the real first episode of Star Trek. It's on paramount plus now. Thanks for all your reviews.

    “Comity” was spoken in the episode, when Spock says about his human na­tu­re: “Best of all, it has allowed me to return to a normal state of friend­ship and comity with my fel­low of­fi­cers.” It is really weird how Spock’s Vulcan­ness is treated like a curse by the epis­ode, and its re­mo­val like a blessing.

    Diversity may be nice, but this does not include the Vulcans.

    I'm not sure there has been an episode of SNW that has been so divisive up till this point.

    I felt it was average at best, tonally mis-judged at worst.

    I don't care about canon relating to events in TOS, as I've never really been a fan of Trek pre TNG, so if Chapel rides Spock into an early grave, as she gave every intention of doing so, I'm not that fussed.

    What I do care about though is logical writing, especially when it comes to a Vulcan character.

    Spock is a grown man, with or without is Vulcan heritage, and he has not lost his memory or knowledge gained from experiences that he has throughout his life.

    As such, there is no reason why he would revert to behaving like some 12-13 year old boy who has hit puberty and suddenly realised that girls are in fact more than just annoying sisters of friends who get in the way when you are trying to play football.

    His behaviour - and therefore the writing of his character in this episode is absurd.

    As is, the behaviour and writing of the Vulcan 'Matriarch.' I'm sorry but Vulcans are not racist pigs.

    The depiction of Vulcans in this episode is nothing more than bad fan-fiction, and shows the writers to have little to no understanding of the Vulcan race or how they have been depicted in Trek in the past.

    Next, the comedy in this episode. If I wanted to watch a juvenile teen rom-com aimed at 15-16 years olds ( which I don't) I would not expect to tune into Star Trek to achieve that result.

    However, given what is happening in two episodes time with the Lower Decks crossover, I imagine this nonsense is likely to continue.

    SNW was interesting in Season 1. It promised a lot, almost as much as the opening credits tease, however Season 2 to this point has been a disaster.

    With only ten episodes in a season, a show cannot afford to waste so much time on trifles like this if it wants to be taken seriously.

    "@Jammer why have you never reviewed The Cage ironically enough?"

    When I reviewed TOS (in 1998), "The Cage" was not as readily available and was not part of the official run where/when I rewatched it. I simply never doubled back to review it, especially since much of it was contained in "The Menagerie." But, yeah, it's probably an oversight.

    @parsnip

    "Spock is a grown man, with or without is Vulcan heritage, and he has not lost his memory or knowledge gained from experiences that he has throughout his life. ... As such, there is no reason why he would revert to behaving like some 12-13 year old boy... His behaviour - and therefore the writing of his character in this episode is absurd."

    The Star Trek universe has, to me, established that genetic alterations will result in changes in behavior. Most recently was Saru evolving out of his glangia (sp?) and developing those predatory spikes. The earliest was in TOS where Kirk was split into two individuals due to a transporter malfunction; one version was good but ineffectual and the other was 'evil' and irrational.

    I also feel like that this is rooted in real life science, too. While there is no direct analogy that I can come up with, I think of that medical study that was conducted on the brains of football players several years ago. Frequent concussions over the years lead to brains having more grey matter or developed less folding in the brain, and thus people developing into less intelligent individuals or having disorders later in life. It tells us the design of the human body can indeed have an impact on how a person operates.

    While Spock may have memories of how he used to operate, he clearly believes his behavior and what he thinks in the immediate moment is okay even if we as viewers know that it is very out of character.

    @Caloceptri
    ‘Voyager is an example of a series whose stories could be told in almost any or the at-the-time existing shows (take season 4 ‘s Nemesis.’

    I agree to a large extent with your main point here about the ultimate futility of trying to define what is and what is not Trek and what stories ‘only Trek can tell’, but I would qualify that by saying that a key strength of each classic Trek series was a clearly defined premise which grounded those series and made them unique and yet complementary to one another.

    Like all fiction, Trek is inherently derivative, and the premise of each classic Trek series deliberately builds squarely on whatever preceded it. Any series of any kind could theoretically be used to tell any kind of story if the writer is inventive enough. Trek is based on westerns: Roddenberry pitched TOS as ‘Wagon Train to the stars’. TNG was pitched as a modernised version of TOS, but had soon expanded the Trek universe considerably: DS9 was TNG but on a space station. VOY was TNG but lost in space.

    My view is that each of these premises is robust, and while all four series can tell the same stories, there must also be stories that can only be told due to the constraints placed by the premise of each. TOS and TNG had a wide-ranging mobility that explored a small part of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants (TNG in a more intensive and structured way); DS9’s heavy focus on Bajoran-Cardassian relations and the Gamma Quadrant were facilitated by the wormhole and the station’s role toward Bajor (which in turn led to a whole military arc); and VOY had, at least some of the time, its grossly under-utilised Starfleet-Maquis crew dynamic and its one-way trip through the theoretically completely unfamiliar Delta Quadrant with no turning back (a real ‘trek through the stars’).

    I would argue that what fatally undermines ENT and NuTrek series is precisely the lack of a solid, unique premise to each. Most are prequels and thereby beholden to somehow wedging themselves into a constricted space in both time and canon – which is of course a recipe for continuity frustrations and a sense of dilution. These series are by their premises doomed to be even more derivative and restricted than TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY simply because they are not creating a new Trek future where anything can happen, but filling a space in-between things that we have already seen happen or known to have happened.

    (It is no surprise that the most popular NuTrek series in terms of viewer and fan satisfaction seem to be those with the most defined premises: S3 of PIC – which tries to be TNG thirty years older – and LDS, which looks at what goes on, well, on the lower decks. PROD falls somewhere little in-between by having an imaginative premise – kids find a starship and learn how to operate it and become a ragtag crew – that at the same time rather unimaginatively copies VOY in having them head to the Alpha Quadrant.)

    A more intriguing premise for DSC, for example, would have been a series set after VOY that saw a ship (the USS Discovery) lost in time – perhaps even shifting back and forth through periods in the post-VOY future up to the 29th century due to interference or influence from the same modus operandi we saw in ‘Relativity’. DSC ended up as a ship lost in time anyway, and I understand the series improved when it moved out of prequel hell into the far future.

    SNW does well within the constraints set out by it needing to be set in that prequel space, but it too ultimately lacks a unique conceptual premise, and I fear all SNW can ever be is an imitation of what has gone before (at best), or something that clumsily overwrites what has gone before (at worst). We’ll see.

    Just one final point on what is and isn’t Trek: ‘Stardust City Rag’ famously broke Jammer: even he said that episode was ‘not Trek’. I agree, and I think that’s certainly a useful reference point when trying to find a suitable reference point about what is and isn’t Trek.

    @Quincy

    "I originally thought we'd have more time to advance neuroscience and find ways to increase human intelligence. That's what we need. We literally have to become smart enough as a species to deal with problems that we've already created that are ALREADY on the way to killing us."

    I'm with ya all the way. Unfortunately, now that I've quoted you, some system will see it as significant and take your words and sell them to the Trek showrunners. They will plug them into Wonderscript GPT and produce an entire episode for less than 27 cents.
    Opening scene: An alien called a Shmandorian, with latex forehead and narrow latex membrane descending from the philtrum, shown in a panic, says to Captain Pike:

    "Captain, you must help us. I originally thought we'd have more time to advance neuroscience and find ways to increase Shmandorian intelligence. That's what we need. We literally have to become smart enough as a species to deal with problems that we've already created that are ALREADY on the way to killing us."

    @Bok R'Mor: "‘Stardust City Rag’ famously broke Jammer: even he said that episode was ‘not Trek’. I agree, and I think that’s certainly a useful reference point when trying to find a suitable reference point about what is and isn’t Trek."

    Interesting. That title didn't ring a bell, so when I Googled and saw that it was from PIC, I was like "ah, okay: I'm sure I probably hated it too, if I saw it at all" (I watched all of the first season, the first episode of the second season, and part of the third season premiere, but none of the rest of the series). But going to Jammer's review and Ctrl-F-ing my name, I see that in fact I defended it:

    "I can see how the gore could be jarring for fans of 1990s TNG. But I remember TNG being jarring to me as a teenager after being a fan of TOS reruns and the movies.
    I don’t mind watching Trek that is more adult, although I do regret that it puts it more off-limits for kids.
    I acknowledge some of the flaws in this episode, but I found it more enjoyable than most episodes of Discovery, so it’s still registering as a pleasant surprise so far."

    So as much as I was ultimately out on that series, that episode appears to have been a bright spot for me, although I still don't really remember it very clearly. ::shrug::

    I would add on that point of TNG being jarring after growing up on the TOS cast: It's still jarring to me every time I read comments (like the one from @parsnip just upthread) that seem to indicate an increasing number of fans are viewing TNG as the reference point for what Star Trek fundamentally is. I have known for years that a lot of people like TNG the best (I disagree--I wouldn't even put TNG in the top three!), but I guess I still thought it was understood that it was all built upon a base of TOS as the fundamental cornerstone for everything after, even if they thought improvements were subsequently made.

    To see people dismiss it this way is hard for me to take, and I'd argue that if you do so, you can't really defend any stance about what is or what is not Trek. If we can just brush aside TOS, why wouldn't it make just as much sense to do so for TNG or DS9? What gives them any special claim? Makes me think of a 45 year old woman who got her 65 year old husband to leave his same-aged peer of a first wife for her twenty years ago, and is now unaccountably shocked and outraged that he is again trading in for a newer model now that his second wife is no longer in her salad days.

    Does anyone have a problem with these characters dating or sleeping together? I always felt like none of the senior staff on DS9 should have dated or married.* It's asking for trouble in today's military, and my sense is that it's a storytelling error in SNW. I suppose if no one is watching it, or if it's being watched for YA & rom-com elements, addressing logistical issues like an empty bridge or personnel dating is irrelevant.

    One aspect of Star Trek that I think most people can agree on is the existence and presence of Starfleet. From that perspective, we have SNW characters who demonstrably don't acknowledge concepts like rank or chain of command, which gives weight to the argument that this is not "real Star Trek."

    Post social control smartphone apps, I don't recall anyone asking every season or every episode: "are we watching Star Trek or something else?" When Picard was announced, my Trek watching friends and I were ecstatic. I mean, I have frequently referred to Jean-Luc Picard as an adopted father figure. You can't get a better audience than that. I know some people really enjoyed Picard 3, but for a lot of us it ranks down there with the Game Of Thrones disaster.

    I reread Jammer's review of Stardust City Rag, and despite the obnoxious gore, the biggest problem is taking Seven, a very well-written character, and dropping her into a "clichéd character template" - the kind of hard drinking, hard-shooting action hero established in movies a lot of us tuned out of because we wanted something a little bit smarter...like Star Trek.

    @Bok - I enjoy your writing more than any of the stuff on television or streaming right now.

    *Using DS9 as an example because it's my favorite show, and I don't really want to be accused of hate watching anything.

    @Slacker - I've been a TOS fan since 1972, and TNG is 100% the gold standard Star Trek for me. TOS, however, has better rewatch potential to be sure.

    I don't watch this show, but was it ever established that Vulcan mental acuity is explicitly physiologically based, rather than culturally? Wouldn't his brain still know how to do these things, human or not?

    Spock's brain chemistry would be entirely different with a completely human physiology. We don't know how an abrupt transition like that would affect the cognition of an adult, cognitively developed sentient being. All of us who have always been human all along manage with our brain chemistry but we developed with it. We're used to it. Spock has to learn it. The premise of the episode is entirely conceivable. If this scenario could actually happen in real life things might not play out this way for Spock as to how it affected him. It also might. We really cannot say.

    Brain chemistry does affect cognition and a person's actions. This is one thing we do know for certain.

    Maybe it's like finding yourself drunk for the first time. You can't just "decide" to be exactly the person you are when you're not drunk by adjusting your thinking patterns. You can, however, get better at functioning more like the person you are while not drunk while you ARE drunk with experience being drunk. Errr . . . right?

    . . .

    Also, Starfleet is not the military. It has distinct differences from the military. Fraternization is, and always has been since TOS, one of those differences.

    Our characters are explorers, not soldiers. Starfleet as a service is something between the military and a workplace . . . and maybe a bit of a scientfically-focused commune, too. Starfleet members don't really have lives independent of it.

    @Dirk

    Sorry but if Data and Tasha did it I think it’s fine for Chapel and Spock. Also that’s the only actual relationship on the Enterprise in this show so it’s fine.

    @Matthew L. Martin

    “This season has been a step down from the first.“

    I disagree completely. The only episode from the first half of last season that was outright better than its placement counterpart from this season was Memento Mori vs Among the Lotus Eaters. For the rest it’s been a draw or tilted in this seasons favor.

    Also, the back half of last season was plainly weaker than the first half outside of the season finale imo. It remains to be seen how the second half of this season fares.

    Strange New Worlds > Broken Circle
    Comet < Ad Astra
    Ghosts of Illyria < Tomorrow and Tomorrow*
    Memento Mori > Among the Lotus Eaters*
    Spock Amok < Charades

    Again this is all matter of opinion, but I’ve been enjoying this season just as much with less complaints.

    (The two I have starred feel not even close which one is better)

    @Dirk: Regarding Starfleet officers dating, a DS9 example is instructive on how this can and maybe should be handled. There were consequences to Worf/Dax when they went on a crucial mission together and it failed because Worf saved Dax's life instead of completing it (details a little vague, the episode is "Change of Heart"). Sisko claimed this incident would guarantee Worf would never be promoted, though he eventually made Captain according to PIC.

    But isn't Chapel at this point a civilian on the Enterprise because reasons as opposed to an actual member of Starfleet? I swear something of that sort was mentioned in the first ep last year.

    @Bok I vaguely recall Discovery's premise in the early stages of its development was rumored to be something like that, visiting various times in Federation history.

    @Dirk: "I've been a TOS fan since 1972, and TNG is 100% the gold standard Star Trek for me. TOS, however, has better rewatch potential to be sure."

    Interesting distinction! Can you elaborate?

    @Jeffrey's Tube: I tend to agree with what you are saying about Spock's brain (not "Spock's Brain", LOL, an episode I liked just fine as a kid when I watched TOS reruns after school but haven't rewatched since I learned everyone seems to hate it). But I'm not so sure I buy what you're selling about Starfleet (and it's not just you: I've seen this said many times). I would lean more toward the idea that the Navy has evolved by the 23rd century, just as it has evolved since sailors were posted on wooden frigates, eating limes and hardtack.

    I mean, they use Navy-style ranks, they have weapons, and throughout the various series they have often been at war. If they are not the military, who IS the military when the Federation is at war with the Klingons, the Romulans, or the Dominion?

    @SlackerInc

    I guess I would answer that while prosecuting armed conflict falls under their purview and responsibility as well, that does not necessarily make them the military. Or that they are more than the military which, by virtue of that being so, makes them not the military.

    . . .

    MACOs were the military. Archer was uncomfortable having the military onboard the Enterprise because Starfleet was not the military and the Enterprise was not a military vessel. I had a poke around Memory Alpha just now and apparently it's a plot point in Star Trek Beyond that the villain, Krall, hates Starfleet because he was a MACO and after the MACOs were disbanded following the founding of the Federation there was no more military and no more place for him to be a soldier. For whatever that's worth.

    "Whether this tracks adequately with TOS canon is an open question"

    Jammer... come on, man.

    "Whether this tracks adequately with TOS canon is an open question"

    Seems less of an open question than a slammed door.

    @SlackerInc
    The revulsion with 'Stardust City Rag' was about both its tone and its content, if I recall. The episode was 'not Trek' in several ways, although like many I have erased its plot from my memory. I'll check again later when I have more time.

    @Dirk
    '@Bok - I enjoy your writing more than any of the stuff on television or streaming right now.'

    Wasn't expecting that response - thank you! Very kind of you to say.

    @Cynic
    'I vaguely recall Discovery's premise in the early stages of its development was rumored to be something like that, visiting various times in Federation history.'

    That's interesting. I wasn't actually aware of that as far as I can remember - I based my example on what happened later in the series. I do wonder why they chose to lumber DSC with being a prequel, rather than simply set it after VOY from the very start.

    @SlackerInc so you've heard the word before you mean? I think I'm pretty well read but isn't it still a rarely used formal word..that maube a lot of fluent English well read ppl haven't hesrd..seems to mainly be used in legal contexts anyway from what I looked up...and yea Spock said it at the beginning..

    @Jeffrey's Tube: Yeah, I stand behind my earlier comments. If Starfleet is not military, then the Federation has no military. Costa Rica has no military in our world, but they don't wage war either. You said "while prosecuting armed conflict falls under their purview and responsibility as well, that does not necessarily make them the military." Then what in your view defines the military? My American Heritage Fifth Edition dictionary defines the noun very succinctly as "armed forces". Starfleet and its officers and enlisted personnel are certainly that.

    You go on to object that "Or that they are more than the military which, by virtue of that being so, makes them not the military." Again, this does not track with our reality. Members of the "President's Own" Marine Band (as well as the Coast Guard band) do not have to go through basic training or participate in combat missions. But they are still Marines, and no one will take you seriously if you say the Marines is not the military just because it includes a band made up of musicians that may never have fired a gun in their lives.

    @Leif: Yes, I have heard the word before, plenty of times. I thought I mentioned that I heard it used on a podcast just earlier this month. It's a "fancypants" word, to be sure, but there are lots of those and if you read/watch/listen to the right kind of content you will encounter them regularly. It's not an archaic term like "spoondrift" or "beseem". It is still used reasonably often in the 21st century by well-educated people.

    @Jeffrey's Tube: One more point. In what is widely regarded as the best Trek movie, "The Wrath of Khan", David Marcus tells his mother "Every time we have dealings with Starfleet, I get nervous. We are dealing with something that…could be perverted into a dreadful weapon." David follows this up with "I've tried to tell you before, scientists have always been pawns of the military!"

    So....

    First minute of the episode I am asking myself...

    How is something in the Vulcan system, a species that has been warp capable for centuries longer than humans, be so un explored like some random planet on the outer edges of the quadrant?

    The way they introduced this, it was like some barely known place and Starfleet finally got around to checking it out. It is a literal few minutes away from Vulcan at warp speed.

    This does not affect the rest of the episode which I think was pretty good over all. But I had a WTF moment to start the show.

    Anyone figure this out or is it just bad writing?

    @Slackerlnk

    "
    @Maq: "All 15 episodes in SNW so far has been whatchable and enjoyable...No episode has been completely bad."

    I beg to differ. "All Those Who Wander" was not very watchable or enjoyable, but it had a few redeeming elements. "The Elysian Kingdom" was a travesty, a blight against everything we (should) hold dear. There were two others I found a bit lackluster but not too bad; eight I thought were decent, solid, good episodes; and three I would call excellent. A very good ratio to be sure (far better than DISCO or PIC), but not quite the unblemished record you are describing."

    Well it does not seem as there is an enormous difference. I had much difficulties with "The Elysian Kingdom" from the begining and I did not think the concept of the daugther in then transporter was great.

    I enjoyed it better the second time when I looked on it from another perspective.

    Unblemished record? I mot sure, I had to look it up in the dictionary first.

    Where as I did not managed understand S4 of Disco and shaked my head at S2 Picard. May they be blemished. SNW has generally had the nose over the waterline.

    @Pike’s Hair
    "Sorry but if Data and Tasha did it I think it’s fine for Chapel and Spock. Also that’s the only actual relationship on the Enterprise in this show so it’s fine."

    Someone else did it so it's okay is not a defense.

    After the Dominion War and Picard season 3, I really don't see how anyone can try to make the point that Starfleet isn't military.

    Just off the top of my head:
    The invasion of Cardassia?
    The military intelligence operation from the final episodes of Picard 3?
    The Best of Both Worlds?
    Section 31?
    Star Trek II (both novel and film) scientists refer to Starfleet as "The Military"

    @Jeffrey
    I guess you can just say that it's "The Government Organization that Handles Wars and Armed Conflicts In Space" but not call it military. That just sounds like gas lighting. Cherry picking a few episodes from prequel that a lot of people dislike doesn't really compare to the histories of multiple shows.

    @SlackerInc

    Starfleet's purpose is neither to make war nor to defend the Federation, but both of those things do also fall under its responsibilities. Does this make it the military? I guess it's a philosophical question. There is no clear analogue for Starfleet in present times nor in history up to this point. Is it just a future conception of what a military organization might be? That the differences from present militaries actually don't make it not fit the definition of a military organization?

    The way I'm thinking of it, Starfleet officers are not soldiers. They engage in combat on an as-needed basis as part of their responsibilities but they are very clearly not soldiers. Even security officers like Worf are clearly not soldiers.

    Starfleet does not treat its service members like soldiers. We can argue that it treats them like soldiers according to a future conception of what a solider is, but I don't know about that. The concept of what a soldier, or at least a "warrior," is does not seem too variable owing to certain universal truths about human nature.

    Maybe the whole "Starfleet is not a military organization" thing that has been stated on screen in as many words on multiple occasions is like the whole "no money in Federation society" thing. We're supposed to accept it is a truth and that it works though no one can explain exactly how that is so to us because they're questions our present society haven't solved yet. So in this case, how to handle martial matters while ostensibly not having a military.

    . . .

    Me, I choose to believe Starfleet is not the military because it is philosophically different from anything I recognize as a military, though I know actions > intentions in that respect. I think Starfleet being "more than" the military means it cannot be reductively described with the label of "the military."

    @Slackerinc oh well.rhe key there then is right kind of content I'm pretty well read and well educated and like Insaid never heard it before..in fact it reminded me of another word which I swear I've only heard once before:amkty..and yes that one place i heard it was in Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country..maube since I don't careabkut politics or law and don't watch the news and these seem to be legalese/international relations jargon terms maybe that's why I never heard it before...whatever

    @Dirk, well said. I think @Jeffrey's Tube has a negative mindset about the military in general, as my peacenik mom does. Personally, I see it as neutral or just that it really depends on the country and the particular military's organization and philosophy. As I see it, a military can be an awful, terrorizing regime, or an instrument of liberation and justice. Or, in most cases, a needed entity for self-defense and territorial integrity that will inevitably have lots of problems.

    @SlackerInc

    "I think @Jeffrey's Tube has a negative mindset about the military in general, as my peacenik mom does."

    Not sure where you're getting that. Defense will always be a requirement for any society. A standing professional military is more accountable than other options. Also more efficient at prosecuting conflict to ensure speedy resolution, which reduces costs both in terms of human lives and in how conflicts impact human lives, even if maintaining a standing professional military probably does not reduce costs to a society by strict economic value invested.

    The one thing that, to me, gives weight to Spock's relationship with Chapel, and also to Jess Bush's portrayal of Chapel, is this: It's a tragedy waiting to happen.

    It's played for comedy now, but we know *exactly* where these two people and their relationship will be, a few years down the road. More importantly, these writers know that the audience knows. We know it just as surely as we know the inevitable fate of Christopher Pike.

    What events will cause Chapel and Spock to become the people we saw in "Amok Time"? Finding out is going to be interesting. And in the classical dramatic sense of the word, tragic.

    I was amused that the writers cast an Indian actress to play the meddling, hostile, and overbearing mother. Yes I know she fits physically with the actress who plays T'Pring but still ... that is the trope of all tropes in India. Knowing that, I found the scene jarring -- it was set far in the future, but with a very large wink toward a 2023 stereotype.

    Just an aside rather than a complaint. This was a fun episode and although I wasn't crazy about the eventual Spock/Chapel coupling, I did appreciate how the episode addressed Spock's trapped desires, squashed (at least mostly) by both his Vulcan background and his upcoming marriage.

    My recollection of TOS is that the relationship between Chapel and Spock was largely one-way and not sexual, so I had some difficulty squaring this overly emotional Spock (even before his "remediation") with what we know of the character. However, Peck manages to salvage an otherwise lightweight and overlong episode with his performance.

    Still, this was another middling outing from what is turning out to be a very mixed sophomore season.

    Again, we all know that Spock gets his Vulcan half back because he was half Vulcan in TOS. Lines such as "If we don't blah blah blah he'll be stuck like this forever" are not only pointless drama less drivel, they're an insult to our intelligence.
    If you're going to do a prequel you have to be more imaginative than creating situations for established characters that literally carry no weight given what we know.

    Spock is an idiot. You don't throw away a gem loatheth me Tilting for a tart that doesn't respect boundaries.

    * a gem like T'pring* Character wise, Chapels are a dime a dozen. T'pring is one of a kund.

    I enjoyed this episode as a pleasant light hearted show. Someone earlier made a comment about how SNW is equivalent to YA fiction and I find myself reluctantly agreeing. It doesn’t detract from the enjoyability however It doesn’t have the depth of exploring the bigger questions of TNG and the other Star Trek of that era in that respect it is dumbed down.

    Three stars for being entertaining.

    @dave yes I thought the same about how a energy anomaly/gateway to an alien dimension could be so close to the Vulcan homeworld and not have been known about before a bit of a weak plot contrivance.

    I agree with B-Boy (above): “The writing shows real disdain for Vulcan culture and philosophy”

    I also found Peck’s performance a bit overwrought & it became less funny as the episode wore on.

    As a comedic episode, I think this episode works. I particularly liked Sevet as the typical sitcom “Yes, Dear” husband. I also had a fun time imagining Spock as eventually turning into Human Bender, in the Futurama episode where he has no self control as a human and only lives about a week because of indulging in partying, alcohol and nachos until he’s 600 lbs and dies of a heart attack. The romantic portion was not overdone either, so ultimately I’d give this episode 3.5 stars. Probably my favorite comedic episode since the DS9 Ferengi episodes.

    I found this episode to be about the same level as "Spock Amok". It was a goofy and derivative premise made watchable by an excellent cast.

    The Spock side of the plot had several problems. T'Pring's mother was very un-Vulcan-like. She was rude and unreasonable considering Spock was injured (even though she didn't know the nature of his injuries). I didn't necessarily have a problem with the Fun with DNA aspect, but the way it was fixed with a magic serum was pretty convenient. It seems to me Spock would have had to return to the aliens' realm for them to be able to 'fix' him.

    The Chapel side of the story was much better. I suppose with all the screen time given so far on the Spock/Chapel relationship, their pairing was inevitable even though it contradicts canon. I have to keep telling myself that this is a reimagining of TOS and not a prequel.

    The episode was a bit long. Sometimes artists need constraints to focus on what's important and avoid self-indulgence.

    Finally, as others have mentioned, Amanda seems too young to be Spock's mother, and indeed Mia Kirshner is only 11 years older than Ethan Peck.

    I hope the second half of the season is better than the first!

    I'm going to go with another ** 1/2 rating. There's some good drama towards the end of this episode, but overall, many of the mild jokes fell flat, and the characters and situations are not quite on target.

    I've really grown to enjoy Spock and T'Pring's relationship over this show. They have good chemistry, despite their dedication to a lack of emotion. In the words of Spock, "Fascinating". I've also enjoyed Nurse Chapel over the show as sort of booksmart and plucky girl, though unlucky in love, and somewhat naive. I've said many times before that this is an excellent likeable cast with generally good characterization. However I think in this episode, the writers may have taken a left turn. Spock and T'Pring's relationship has been enjoyable, and having Chapel disrupt it either makes her more dislikable, Spock more dislikable, or both. I actually lean towards Spock being the one who comes out worse. I was turned off that our favourite logical Vulcan would so quickly embrace Nurse Chapel with only hours past from T'Pring wanting time apart. He betrayed T'Pring's trust not once, but twice in the span of 5 minutes. Really? Spock?

    The characterization of Spock was somewhat wrong in this episode and perhaps its biggest flaw. I think the writer's mistook writing dialouge for Spock for writing dialogue for Data. Spock has emotions, has a human half. Because in the episode he is now fully human, it shouldn't mean that he embraces human emotions more. On the contrary, he should be even more frustrated with himself, and ashamed. The emotions he feels should not be foreign to him, but the lack of control should be. So what does the script have him do? He devours bacon like he's never eaten something succulent in his life. He has sexual urges that he seemingly has never had before, despite last season initiating "Bonding rituals" with T'Pring, naked in bed. Perhaps the furthest depature was his awkward laughter at lame jokes. We've seen Spock in TOS, clearly showing a high level of understanding of sass and sarcastic humour. In this episode I was more reminded of Data in Generations where he gets the emotion chip, and awkwardly laughs at old jokes, inducing a certain amount of cringe in the audience. The characterization of Spock in this episode is too similar Data awkwardly experiencing emotion. It misses the mark. As a an example and request, please SNW writers, don't write Spock dropping F-Bombs anymore. There's a reason Spock at one point was a cultural icon, and it was not for profane language. It's because his inner persona was fascinating and mysterious.

    As for Spock's mother Amanda, the actress grew on me as the show went on, but really, she seems to be only 10 years older than him. I had a hard time accepting her in the role at the beginning, but as the stakes increased, she did seem to manifest a believability as the ever loving mother we knew from TOS.

    Once again though we have males on the diminished side. T'Pring's father is as Jammer said, is a pushover. Spock's father is absent. Pike is now reduced to making hors d'oeuvres, which in itself isn't a terrible subplot. But in the context of Chapel's storyline, it makes me continue to wonder how this ship operates.

    With Chapel's story, she gets Ortega and Uhura to take a shuttle out to the anomaly to meet the aliens. Where is Pike? Does he care at all his officers just take equipment out for their own purposes? They can take shuttles out for first contact missions on a whim without any alarms or follow up? Is he just cooking all day, oblivious to what is happening on his own ship? There should be some consequences or stakes for taking a risky action like this. But there are not, because again, modern Trek will not have the male captain reprimanding the three women or having any real sense of authority. Damn I like Anson Mount as an actor, but I'm getting real disapointed in this lack of leadership over the course of many episodes. Pike is establishing himself as the least assertive Captain in Star Trek, yet somehow maintains some likability. I credit Mount for that, not the writing. On the plus side, I felt the actress playing Chapel delivered a nice confession to the aliens about her feelings for Spock. She said she cared about him, without it being too melodramatic, by acknowledging Spock is flawed, but loving those traits anyways. Nicely done.

    The ending was the most engaging piece of the episode. T'Pring had a real legitimate beef with Spock about his lack of honesty, and it was a truthful, and tough outcome for them to decide on needing space. Spock's defence of his mother also hit home, and felt like the right actions of a good son. Amanda's history of being a lonely misunderstood woman who loves a Vulcan Man shone through. Despite my earlier criticism of the male diminishment on SNW, I did enjoy the depiction of T'Pring's mother overall, though some of her lines were jarringly out of place (Vulcan's should have stronger bladders?) Lastly, Spock's kiss, while set up over many episodes, diminishes him in my view, because of his lack of respect for T'Pring, who has done nothing wrong ([possibly because she is woman character, fits the pattern) I hope the writer's know what they are doing with this plot. Spock is a cherished character. It's ok for him to have flaws, but I would hate to see him be more human than Vulcan. We know he suppresses his human side. That arc should not be casually dropped.

    I enjoyed season 1 more so far than season 2. It's the writing mostly that needs to improve. Everything else is just so damn solid. I hope they can up their game in the next 5 episodes.

    I think they've overdone the 'human' in human Spock, for drama purposes. Teenage urges, uncontrolled rage, wanting to hump everything and everyone - though that was kinda funny, him giving La'an that 'look' ROFL! I half-wanted her to wag her finger at him and say 'down, boy'! Actually... fair is fair, he's cute in his human-only self. If I were in La'an's place... nvm. Banish the thought hehe. I'm sure Starfleet has some kind of rule against that anyway... and keeping it from Chapel and his fiancee wouldn't be easy so... nah. :P

    On a serious note - given someone who spent a lifetime controlling very powerful Vulcan emotions, to suddenly be so flustered by pure human ones, seems a bit silly. Especially him exploding at Sam Kirk in - homicidal rage - over a few crumbs on the table - yea no. Not buying it. Character assassination, right there. And if it was done for comic relief, that flew right over my head, thanx very much show.

    Spock's mom is a star! Agreed with someone above saying how she maybe looks too young to be his mom, but not that much. I imagine living on Vulcan means very healthy living, so... she probably takes good care of herself, and ages gracefully. That's fine. And deffo a better person then me, consenting to put up with thinly-veiled bigotry and ostracizing, for the sake of her marriage. I always got the impression that despite their high-minded 'logic', most Vulcans are closet-racist. Or 'speciesist' to be more accurate. I would NOT want to live on Vulcan as a human. Plain and simple.

    T'Pring's mom being a classic example. OMFG that woman is INSUFFERABLE. I mean, even T'Pring herself is on the edge of losing it with that bitch, which says something! And T'Pring's dad is... well. Pathetic is the word that comes to mind. Seems like a nice guy actually, but too much of a total wuss under that shrew's thumb, to let that out.

    And finally - have to agree with T'Pring. Spock should've brought her in on the ruse. She seems actually very level-headed and understanding, and I do get the feeling she genuinely cares about him (in a Vulcan way). Can totally understand her frustration at the end, and wanting some distance.

    The B-plot (or is it A-plot?), of Chapel&Co trying to persuade the aliens to remake Spock properly, was quite pedestrian. So much that I don't even remember the species name. Kerhovians - had to scroll back to Jammer's review to remind myself. That's how forgettable they are. Yaaaaawn. 'No complaints after business hours' - *facepalm*. Blah blah blah, lots of medical technobabble between M'Benga and Chapel on how to recombine Spock, failing (of course), so she has to go to the aliens and beg them to restore him, admitting her feelings for him to beings she never knew existed 1 day ago... cringe.

    Skippp.

    Aaaaaanywaaaaay... uhhh idk... 2.5 stars? Yea, about fair I think. One of those for Spock's mom alone. She's the WOMAN! Oh yea, another half for Spock's guts, taking off the fake ears and confronting that stuck-up bitch about her closet racism towards Humans, and how his human side is a source of strength. DAMN RIGHT! The rest for... hjinks and comedic value.

    Submit a comment

    ◄ Season Index