“Whistlespeak”

Ah damn. This was a really great episode up until the last twenty minutes or so.

It did so much right. So, so much right. For a moment there I felt like I was back in the 90s, watching an average TNG episode or an above-average Voyager episode. By Discovery standards, that's like a seven-star episode out of four.

There's an awful lot to praise in those first forty minutes. It didn't even bother me that the mission's success once again hinged on the highly unrealistic prospect of Tilly ably running. I should spend time talking about all the many things I enjoyed from those first forty minutes, but I'm just stuck on wanting to talk about the elephant in the room. (Not, not Tilly. The other elephant in the room.)

I'm talking about Burnham saying "FUCK THE PRIME DIRECTIVE, STOP ARGUING I'M MICHAEL BURNHAM DAMMIT SO HURRY UP AND FUCK IT RIGHT NOW DOUBLETIME" because she doesn't want Tilly to die.

Hey listen. It's right there in the name. PRIME Directive. Not Secondary Directive. Not Prime Directive* (*Unless Your Friend Is Going To Die). Not Prime Suggestion. Prime. Directive.

Then the episode even shows us in her conversation with Rava after she breaks it that Burnham has harmed the society by her actions in doing so. Only the episode seems to think that with that same conversation it is in fact showing us, the audience, that she has done the opposite. That the conversation is proving to us she has actually done the correct thing, the moral thing, to the benefit of the society.

Wrong.

She basically dictated instructions to Rava on how to reform his society. What his society "should" look like. How to change their cultural practices. She also said "I don't know, maybe a god sent me!" You're not supposed to let an underdeveloped civilization see you beam into a room because it might inadvertently start a religion or something. But that conversation? That conversation is everything you're really REALLY not supposed to do.

Now okay, there are circumstances, yes. The Prime Directive was technically already broken by the Denobulans installing those weather towers at all. As the Denobulans were Federation members at the time, they never should have done that in the first place. TNG's Homeward is clear on this; however, we can give this episode a pass and say that perhaps Federation thinking has evolved on that subject only when the alternative is the total annihilation of a sentient species as a result of the events of that episode. You are still supposed to minimize the disruption and contamination while keeping the species alive, however, which the Denobulans did, and which the Burnham decidedly just now did NOT.

And it's by no means firm that Federation thinking would have evolved on the subject at all. After all, perhaps the Denobulan's interference prevented the natives of this planet from solving the problem themselves, or going through an evolutionary event, or whatever. Their planet wasn't exploding like in Homeward--their total annihilation was by no means certain like it was in that episode.

The argument of "well they're going to need to learn to maintain the towers themselves so they don't die" does not in any way absolve you, Michael. It does not give you a moral "out" for your actions. Yes, they are going to need to learn to maintain the towers themselves so they don't die. WHEN THEY ARE READY. When they have figured out how to on their own. In the meantime, maintaining the towers is YOUR responsibility to do secretly. You put them there; they're yours. At minimum, if the Prime Directive allows for the towers to be there at all (or even if it doesn't, but they're there anyway), this is what the Prime Directive demands of you.

You swore an oath. So did Tilly. To uphold the Prime Directive, even when that requires that you die.

Prime Directive. PRIME.

Sigh.

Oh, and you don't go wandering up to a group of natives and ask to join their traveling party, either. You stay away from interacting with them unless you are given no other option. Of course you need to interact with them because the episode would be boring as hell and we would learn nothing about the alien civilization otherwise, but you need to come up with a plot reason why you're joining their group. They stumbled upon you and rescued you from an avalanche or something, and then it would be weirder to wander off. You know?

Hey, I know the Prime Directive gets violated plenty in other episodes. But it's just never felt as flippant and as deliberately on-purpose as it does in this episode.

Damn, Discovery. So close, with this episode. So, so close.

She tells him she's an alien. Does that even mean anything to him? Do they even know what stars or planets are? Can they see them through the thick clouds covering their planet? She shows him a hologram of his own planet and he's shocked. Did he even know it was round? Did he know it wasn't the center of the universe? Fuck, Burnham. You've GOT to be kidding me.

. . .

Also no Saru for the third episode in a row. Budget? Hope Doug Jones is okay.

Classy. Calling Tilly an elephant. Last review of yours I'm reading.

The dialog continues to be stilted and cringey

The Burnham show at the expense of the rest of the cast as always. She’s the savior every damn time. The whole vial
Is a mystery until she miraculously realizes it’s water from a different planet 😑

Tilly wins a long distance running race?! Don’t dislike Tilly but what kind of writing and character development is that?

Plot directly copied from strange new worlds’ who watches the watchers

Violating the prime directive is ok bc every other captain has done it so that gets a pass

Nice teaser for Star fleet academy I guess? Desperately hope burnham isn’t in it. Booker would be cool.

Adiras lack of confidence shows she hasn’t grown at all throughout the show. The writing is just awful. More they thems thrown in this episode while not as cringey as before still sticks out

3 episodes without Saru?! Wtf.

Culbers journey of discovering the spirituality of the trill arc will surely be written to end poorly. Maybe we will get to see him join with the crying Kelpian that caused the burn

0.5/4 stars

Cringey and boring and a rehash of a very recent trek episode.

Decidedly mixed feelings here, but on the whole. In a lot of ways, it was like a latter-day Berman Trek episode ported into Discovery. This isn't necessarily a good thing in all ways, as the trope of the alien planet with bland humanoids with only one weird thing distinguishing their culture has always left me a bit cold. But it was an effective, average episode of Star Trek. I also give it kudos for not even having a perfunctory action scene this week, and feeling confident the story itself could carry things.

The connection to the arc as a whole is very, very limited. Moll and La'k are mentioned a few times, but not seen. The MacGuffin itself - the next puzzle piece - is nabbed offscreen at the end of the episode. Frankly, even the mystery of how to find the puzzle piece gets sidetracked for Michael and Tilly's planetside adventure.

But before turning to that, let's go over the shipside stuff, where not much happens. Adira is still inexperienced and unsure, and Rayner is a little curt with them, but seems to be settling into his position as XO. Book is still upset he's not on the trail of Moll, trying to redeem her, and sad that he isn't with Michael (the way he refers to love in the past tense continues to confuse me).

The meatiest stuff is Culber's wrestling with "finding God" or whatever. I don't have an issue with this, save it seems so damned random. Culber literally died and came back from the dead, which seems weightier than what he's wrestling with now. Stamets' inability to relate to his partner also seemed kind of preordained by the plot, given he's had the whole mystical connection to the mycelial network thing going on for years now. It all feels both like a holdover from Season 2, and something that only makes sense if you forget about what the characters went through in Seasons 1 and 2.

Which brings us to the uncontacted pre-warp culture, and Michael and Tilly's misadventures here. I think this stuff was...fine. It's nothing we haven't seen numerous times before. I'm also a bit let down with how it plays out because despite a few efforts to tie it to them more directly (like Tilly discussing her work at the Academy), the roles they both take here are interchangeable with any other members of the crew.

I personally didn't mind Michael's cavalier violation of the prime directive at all. Other than a few cases in TNG, the Prime Directive exists to be broken in story terms - it's just there to add some tension which is inevitably let out as the story progressed. I had a lot more of an issue with why the Denobulans, in particular, would have saved the locals with the moisture towers to begin with, as this goes entirely against the ethos that Phlox elucidates in Dear Doctor, but perhaps either Denobulan culture evolved, or he really was just a psychopath.

So yeah, on the whole, I could 100% see this being an episode of say Season 6 of Voyager, with only a few superficial changes. There's nothing infuriating here, but there's also very little which actually hooks you in. It's just Trek comfort food.

Call me surprised. This was a very good episode, in 3½ star ter­ri­to­ry. And hat off to Jeffrey’s Tube for point­ing out in our dis­cus­sion about “Jinaal” that some of the mid-stretch epis­odes may have great value, even if they don’t further the sea­son arc.

I liked pretty everything, except some pro­long­ed soppy dia­logue that I can easily skip over, es­peci­ally in the Culber side plot. Pretty much every­thing else in the episode works, be­gin­ning with the Whistle­speak intro­duced early. BTW, that’s a real thing (Silbo Go­me­ro on the Ca­na­ry Is­lands), and it works ex­act­ly as de­scrib­ed. This was a good start.

This is a Prime Directive episode, and as I have always struggled with the in­hu­ma­ne ri­gi­di­ty of that law, I have long wish­ed to see a good ana­lysis of the prin­ci­ple on which it is built. Pro­bab­ly the best entries about this issue till now are “Who Watch­es the Watch­ers”, to which this epis­ode owes at least one scene (when Ohvahz sees his home pla­net as it ap­pears from space), and “First Con­tact”. Who would have thought that of all shows DIS would pro­vide such an ana­­lysis, when it is well es­tablish­ed that DIS is not very good in ana­lyz­ing anything?

The premise of the episode is a small population of humanoids living in a fail­ing world. They live only by the grace of the Deno­bu­lans who cen­tu­ries ago se­cret­ly in­stal­led a cli­mate con­trol sy­stem which has by now most­ly run out of steam. Not know­ing why their pla­net more and more turns into desert, they in­vent a re­li­gi­on to con­struct some sense for their sense­less an­ni­hi­la­tion, in­clud­ing hu­man sacri­fice which of cour­se can­not solve the under­­lying pro­blem. It is, how­ever, also shown that this con­struc­tion is some­what successful in the social dimension (“They help us see our common purpose”, 48:03). Indeed, the mem­bers of this com­mu­ni­ty show a lot of hu­ma­ni­ty, de­vo­tion and care for each other.

Burnham tears down this system, teaching the people how to real­ly im­pro­ve their si­tu­a­ti­on by re­pair­ing the cli­mate con­trol sy­stem. This is most likely in vio­la­tion of the Pri­me Di­rec­tive, and for the first time in five sea­sons I fully side with Burn­ham. These peo­ple have as much a right for life as every one else, and as things are, their ex­tinc­tion is pret­ty much gua­ran­teed. There­fore, inter­ces­sion is neccessary.

One could argue that the Discovery crew could have repaired all five wea­ther towers in se­cret (as Burn­ham&​Geor­giu did in the very first scene of the show, 1x01). But I argue the so­lu­tion cho­sen here is superior, be­cause it gives the Ha­lem’​ni­tes more agen­cy of their own; they can ac­ti­ve­ly choo­se what to do in­stead of de­pend­ing on the ge­ne­ro­si­ty of others, and they are freed of their deadly su­per­sti­tion. In aiding de­velop­ment, one should do­nate not fish but angles.

Of course, DIS being what it is, the right conclusion is reached by the wrong argu­ment, i.e., “Tilly is in danger, screw the rules be­cause for me Tilly is all that count”; this is self­ish, and wrong, and I didn’t care for Tilly but for Ravah in this scene, as they were the much more com­pel­ling character.

(Tangent: It seems Ravah is referred to by ‘they’, first by Burn­ham at 43:00. How does Burn­ham know this? Did I miss an earlier instance?)

I wonder how the Ha­lem’​ni­tes will do in the future, how the re­ve­la­ti­ons affect their so­cie­ty, and whe­ther they will con­ti­nue cal­ling each other ‘com­peer’. How­ever, Burn­ham’s inter­ven­tion has given them more options (in particular that of survival) than before, and not removed any old ones, so I cannot object to what has hap­pen­ed. Truly, of of that would work better if we were told more about the tech­ni­cal and sci­en­ti­fic de­ve­lop­ment of the Ha­lem’​ni­tes dur­ing the epis­ode. I hope they know at least some­thing about astro­nomy?

Finally, a remark on the CGI: While it didn’t look exactly bad, it did not fit to the real world lo­ca­ti­on shoot­ings, both in colour pa­let­te and in to­po­gra­phy; the gentle paths Burn­ham and Tilly run along can not pos­sib­ly lead to the that peak. And even if they did — how the h… could Ohvahz await them at the sum­mit with­out a trans­port­er? Visual effects must follow the story, not tell a competing one.

The thing with Prime Directive episodes: they're always lauded as these great morality plays. But in the end, there's usually a loophole so we don't forget our own humanity.

It's classic Trek. Picard wouldn't let Wesley die when he fell on some flowers in TNG's Justice. Even the unfeeling Data couldn't let Sarjenka die in Pen Pals.

And hey, it shouldn't surprise anyone Burnham would be open to bending the rules. Remember how Discovery started with her and Georgiou shlepping through the desert to phaser open a well to save a pre-warp civilization?

As for the episode itself... Better than last week, certainly. Though the opening was rather bizarre. Burnham, Adira, Tilly and Stamets spend minutes fruitlessly technobabbling to find a solution only for Kovich to hand it to them on a piece of paper. It reeked of filler in an otherwise decent episode of Trek.

Two things though:

If I had a dime for every time they used the word 'compeer' in this episode, I could have singlehandedly bankrolled the first season of Star Trek: Legacy.

And two: when they built these weather towers 800 years ago, Denobula was already part of the Federation. Isn't that a flagrant violation of the Prime Directive... Or are member worlds free to do whatever on planets with pre-warp civilizations?

Oh, and I'm not sure if Tilly going "...sAcRiFicE?!" was intended to be a comic take. But it sure made me laugh.

A lot of intriguing ideas, a gracious and closer to DS9-like treatment of religion, and a nice showpiece for Tilly's improved confidence and professionalism, undermined by everything having to be about Burnham and another twisted treatment of Good Ol' General Order Number One, though in fairness to Discovery, it's hardly the first such treatment. I hope the series plans to follow through on the consequences of her decision.

I would really enjoy an episode of Trek that put all the cards on the table in regards to non-interference and its checkered history of application, and I can think of no series better positioned to do so than Discovery. The Prime Directive is the biggest joke in the books and these captains have to know it by the 31st century. I think almost every interpretation a captain has ever offered has been explicitly contradicted by a different captain at some point in the franchise.

One of my struggles in regards to this aspect of Trek is that I have to doubt the Federation's altruistic motives in establishing it. You can't tell me that the Federation would clamp down with such a draconic, inflexible doctrine over Trip teaching someone to read, or even over an isolated cultural contamination turning everyone into Nazis or gangsters. It's a lot more likely that the Federation would be motivated to develop it after an interference that affected the Federation itself, on a larger scale than just a planet. People don't tend to move their asses until something hits them personally (see pre-WWII pacifism). In that light, Prodigy probably offers the best example of the level of interference that it would take to create a Prime Directive of that magnitude, even though that was an example of legitimate first contact.

Also, if I were an admiral at Burnham's upcoming hearing that will probably never happen, I would point out that this planet's religious fervor and instability are exactly the kind of disqualifiers that Starfleet captains have cited in previous decisions to not interfere (see: TNG's First Contact). The episode tries to show a microcosm of a society that seems enlightened and attached to community more than the religion that strengthened it, but it wasn't quite convincing, perhaps because all we're seeing is 30 people in a forest. But who am I kidding, this episode is basically sort of thing that Picard pulled just a season earlier in Who Watches the Watchers, using interference to correct interference.

For my money, interference to correct interference should be part of the debate by now. I see it as no less arrogant than the initial interference itself: your intentions may be genuine, but you still can't see all the outcomes. Yet interference to correct interference is the driving force behind a great many of Trek episodes. I'd enjoy an episode in which interference to correct interference just makes things progressively worse. It'd at least broaden the discussion, because right now the concept seems purely hypocritical, and Burnham here did nothing to alleviate that.

TOS, The Paradise Syndrome.

Kirk, Spock and McCoy beam down to activate an asteroid deflection device placed by an advanced alien race to protect a primitive alien race from asteroid strikes. They do not beam down, introduce themselves, tell them their planet is round and their gods aren't what is protecting them, then teach them how to repair the deflection device because "they're going to need to have to learn to operate it themselves." Even once things go wrong and there is cultural contamination, Spock does not do this. He could just as easily have chosen to do as Burnham did. Instead, he minimizes the cultural contamination. He activates the device himself, collects Kirk and leaves the society to itself. That is not only his clear duty, but it is what his advanced society has determined through (painful) experience is morally the better path to Burnham's.

It's a complicated rule, and it's a morally hard rule, but it's Starfleet's #1 rule for good reason. From a storytelling perspective, it's supposed to be hard for our heroes to follow. But they're supposed to believe in it and its paramount importance. That's its purpose. Burnham just flippantly disregards it in this episode because she thinks she knows better. She does not have circumstances that sufficiently force her hand, and her reasoning for doing so is reasoning we have been repeatedly shown in Trek is insufficient by what Starfleet is supposed to believe.

The Prime Suggestion, like logic, can be used to justify almost anything. Arguments about it in the end always boil down to "Pick a side, pick an episode". Any consequences for The Burnham of course are likely irrelevant in-story given the Red Directive status of this mission, as Kovich's appearance helpfully reminds.

Speculation: It has to be that the final piece of the map (?) is on Breen, right? And they need to Team Up with Lok (and therefore Moll) to get it. Capturing and then Connecting with them next week, I would guess.

And it has to be that Kovich is not what he appears, right? How about this: He's a Progenitor, who has been keeping an eye on all this for a long time (maybe even acting as one of the original scientists who made the clues, hence the list of names he conveniently has in this installment) and thinks maybe The Burnham is worthy or at least hopes so, since otherwise Moll and Lok get the goodies. Maybe he's >The< Progenitor (from the "Chase" holo) in disguise? Salome Jens is available for voice and morphing FX, just sayin...

This is getting to be typical for this season. I get to the end of an episode and just feel blah about it. This one had several good ideas, which were all criminally underused. Denobulans are mentioned but never seen. The clever idea of whistlespeak takes up maybe 5 minutes. The people are said to have three sexes, but we see nothing of this at all.

The native society on the planet was rather well described, and some individuals were differentiated. The whole deteriorating weather tower idea was a good one, along with the race to be accepted into the temple. But the fact that the winner would die was no surprise at all. I did like the shocking anomaly that Burnham wasn't the one to win.

Ah, Burnham, as brutal to the Prime Directive as ever. She didn't just break it, she shredded it into little pieces and then set them on fire. This is Season 1 Burnham, Burnham the Always Right, Burnham the Deaf to Common Sense. I had thought she was if not gone, at least a little more mature.

And what were they trying to say about religion? Culber is having a "spiritual awakening" according to Booker, who says he should "just enjoy it." Kind of an odd way to approach it, if you ask me. But Burnham is busy destroying the natives' entire religion and muttering that that doesn't mean there are no gods. That's downright mean, not to mention dangerous. She doesn't have even a passing familiarity with tact, does she?

Still I can't call it an outright bad episode. The plot was interesting enough. The pace was fine and the camera restrained itself for a change. There was whispering, of course. But there was yet another hint about Booker and Burnham getting back together.

Worst moment: Paul Stamets, the engineer, tells Hugh Culber, the DOCTOR, how amazing the human brain is. Best moment: Booker playing a video game to keep his mind occupied.

In what is perhaps the first episode of the season worthy of 3 stars, this episode felt tighter and somewhat more gripping than usual. Though still about as dumb as always. At least it managed to capture and maintain most of my attention without explosions or superfluous action sequences. It reminds me of the classic PD tales of yesteryear...or at least a more thoughtless variety of such.

So hundreds of years ago the good Dr.Kreel takes pity on the inhabitants of a dying world and gives them a second chance by installing the atmospheric technology needed to keep its hydrological system going. He also decides that this is an excellent place to hide the next clue to reach the Progenitor's tech. This raises so many questions. Apparently, being a Denobulan and a member of the Federation, this Dr.Kreel is attempting to uphold some version of the PD in making this humanitarian effort as clandestine as possible. The pre-warp inhabitants must not find out about advanced civilizations nor the very technology he puts there.

First of all, wouldn't all this be considered a PD violation no matter how clandestine? The PD isn't just about not being seen. It's also about not radically altering the trajectory of a civilization's development. That includes "saving" them. How does he know that there isn't some sub-humanoid species waiting in the wings to evolve into intelligent life once conditions become arid enough? Well he can't. But that's the whole point.

Second, if he's going to such extreme lengths to shield these inhabitants from becoming aware of the broader happenings of the galaxy, then what the hell was he thinking putting this world on the map of an intergalactic treasure hunt!? He must have known that not everyone who would come searching for the Progenitor Tech would be as peaceful and enlightened as our heroes. That's supposedly the whole reason for the whole roundabout malarkey with all the clues and such. What if Mol and L'ak had gotten there first? They sure as hell wouldn't have been so keen to LARP their way to the next clue but would have gone in with guns blazing. So much for your precious world you tried so hard to save, Doc.

And now the Discover crew is put in a predicament by the Doctor's bizarre choices; they certainly don't want to violate the PD either. But if the Doctor already messed around there, don't you think Burnham and co. might have been given a pass to do whatever they needed to do? Especially if the technology falling into the wrong hands could have devastating potential for the whole quadrant! I very much doubt that Kovich would have given a shit. But such is the intrigue behind the whole premise, I suppose.

How we get to the inevitable Moment of Truth isn't all that interesting or worthy of comment, but how it plays out from there is pretty much a foregone conclusion. Of course Burnham isn't going to let poor Tilly die no matter what. The welfare of one's crew has time and again taken precedence over the PD...even though that is the exact opposite of what the PD states and is all about. I can't think of a single example in Star Trek history where it didn't play out that way. Either the enterprising captain finds a way to mitigate the cultural damage or they get really lucky and manage to have their cake and eat it too. Burnham isn't quite so fortunate this time and will have to write a Dreaded Report. Oh the humanity.

Sacrificing oneself to the gods isn't so great when it turns out that those gods aren't even real. Of course the enlightened Discovery crew wants to stop this all costs...even if it's-- once again -- very much the antithesis of the PD. I guess that Dreaded Report is going to have to be a really long one. As I said before, Kovich really couldn't care less so that report is going to make a fabulous doorstopper. But let's pretend that the stakes were not so high. I think in that case, Burnham could possibly get away with it because 1) the cultural trajectory of the inhabitants had already been messed with by the good doctor and therefore she was only undoing some of the damage that wouldn't have occurred had it not been for him, and 2) these people would all be dead in short order if Burnham didn't interfere to teach them how to maintain their life-support system without appeal to phony gods.

So in a way, the two fuck-ups kinda cancel each other out. How very Discovery.

Other thoughts:

- If these people have been whistling the whole time while it got translated into atonal English, then what did it originally sound like when they sung that song?

- Watching Tilly beat everyone (including Our Lord and Savior Burnham) in a test of fitness and endurance makes me feel like I'm watching a screen adaptation of someone's fan fiction, overreaching self-insert and all.

- So...are Culber and Book gonna hook up or what? They're already casually flirting and going on dinner dates whilst discussing their intimate thoughts and feelings. We know that Culber is gay and somewhat unsatisfied in his current relationship. Book is now single and gives off some major bisexual vibes with his animal empathy skills and all. And unlike Stammets, he's a real looker. I would expect him to eventually get a peck on the cheek at least. I am watching with eager anticipation. And I really mean it, unironically.

@ Bryan

Ah, yeah. I mean to comment on how dumb it was of the Denobulan to hide the clue on the planet of a pre-warp society. Perhaps, though, he only imagined Federation members pursuing the clue trail. That the clue trail was supposed to test the Federation to see if it was ready for the Progenitor tech. In that case, the Federation would of course respect the Prime Directive . . . errrr . . . well . . . he would have reasonably thought that they would have, anyway. But it shows a lack of imagination to not consider that actors other than the Federation might find the clue trail and undertake the hunt, and still, either way it exposes that society to a risk he never should have been willing to expose them to.

Per your other comments:

Just like the Canary Islanders, the natives have both a whistled language for communicating over long distances and a phonetic language for communicating when together. In real life, this is because the whistled language is limited in what it can communicate. So the phonetic language is required to communicate more complex and abstract ideas, as well as more precisely. On the show, the whistled language seems to have all the features of a full language, however. (Also, in real life the whistled language only works, or rather can only serve its long-distance communications function, with certain geography. Narrow canyons, valleys, and hills. The show wasn't shot in a place with the geography for that to work. But aliens are aliens.)

Yeah, I get that vibe between Book and Culber too. But I'm 100% certain nothing's going to happen with it. I don't think it's in the script that it's supposed to be there.

Book and Culber are hooking up. Both spritual guys who's partners never quite understood them. I guess that scene could just be them becoming close friends, but it sure as heck seemed like what amounts to a first date.

Well this was pretty boring, yet another PD episode that offered nothing new or fresh - even the whistlespeak aspect of culture felt irrelevant. And of course we had to mention "connection" in some way (I counted 3 instances) - it never ends. I did appreciate no forced action scenes, the beginning as they try to figure out the vial, Rayner remaining a solid presence, and the culber stuff that looks to be going somewhere. But majority of ep fell flat.

If you look at the Season 5 promotion poster, Book and Culber are standing shoulder to shoulder just behind Burnham, while Stammets is off in the background. It could be a coincidence, but that paired and prominent positioning could hint at a new romance about to unfold!

//according to Booker, who says he should "just enjoy it."//

That was Paul, I think, not Booker

It was an ok episode. Slow
Michael was right to break the prime directive. Yes, it was the Denobulan's technology and if they didnt fix it their society would have failed. The Denobulan built those towers for a reason, just like the Caretaker with the Ocampans...
But yeah, interference to correct the original interference...

Enjoyable Trekkian episode, "Who Watches the Watchers" vibe, but not as good. Best part was the nuanced discussion between Burnham and Ohvahz about beliefs and what not. As is the case in almost every Trek episode where the life of one of the main characters main is threatened by non-interference, Burnham disregards the Prime Directive, rightfully so.

Unexpected occurrencd for me: the long absences of Owo and Detmer in the show. I'd rather not.
3 stars.

Can't wait to read Jammer's take on this episode.

This was another forgettable episode for me. There were no meaningful pros or cons for me to mention. Just some thoughts. The treasure hunt continues to not be impressive.

Le sigh - I'm so bored.

[i] Breaking the prime directive in this episode will only yield returns for me if there are consequences to be dealt with in the following episode. Otherwise this is just another trademark episode of "Burnham is always right."
[ii] Rayner missed his chance to rebuff Burnham on leading another away mission again.
[iii] Why didn't Tilly tap out and Burnham continue the endurance race? While past episodes did establish Tilly can run, they also established that Burnham is the superior athlete. I'm sure Tilly could have figured out the control panel thingie while Burnham continues with the race; that seems like a logical way to maximize outcome.
[iv] Why didn't Burnham or Tilly pick up on hints that perhaps there's something about the race they don't quite yet know about?

@Brandon – “I'd enjoy an episode in which interference to correct interference just makes things progressively worse. It'd at least broaden the discussion, because right now the concept seems purely hypocritical, and Burnham here did nothing to alleviate that.”
→ I’d love to see this.

I dunno if you guys remember, but way back in Season 2, when Culber got in that fistfight with Ash Tyler following his resurrection, there was way, way more heat and sexual tension flying between them when they are hanging off one another all sweaty than Culber has ever had with Paul.

While I don't think either one was miscast, I think they just lack any chemistry at all with one another.

Yes, Culber and Paul are like colleagues who occasionally cross paths and sometimes kiss for some reason. Their chemistry is so bad that it borders on the negative. Hopefully someone in the writing department picked up on this and made some changes just in time for this season.

Thought this episode started out somewhat promisingly with the potential for a fresh examination of the PD on a pre-warp world (is that even possible now?) but then it just fizzled out and ended way too conveniently -- no apparent damage to the pre-warp civilization. They can go on believing in their Gods and don't need to keep sacrificing people. It's just so bland ultimately. No Moll and L'Ak -- is that for budgetary reasons?

As for Culber, I thought at the end of "Mirrors" his spiritual awakening came out of nowhere just as a means for more DSC emoting, but now it is tied to the Trill ceremony and feels like something worthy could come out of it. But I would not count on DSC coming up with anything enlightening as it'll just be more empty pontificating. So the Culber/Stamets and Culber/Book scenes just felt like they were there, as a mandatory B-plot -- perhaps a very slow and extended build toward nothing thought-provoking.

I continue to like Rayner but Adira's schtick is getting tiresome -- Blu del Barrio is not a good actor. Why does Adira always have to act like she's so uncertain of herself when she's almost like a Wesley Crusher genius?

It's hard to watch Tilly. She's another lousy character. No way being the only one who is significantly overweight should she win the race, but this is DSC after all.

So Burnham knowingly violates the PD, even nixes Rayner's warnings. Will there be consequences? I was mostly thinking of "Who Watches the Watchers" during this episode. But Burnham seems to alleviate the cultural contamination with some all-too-simple explanations. At least she didn't say their Gods don't really exist.

2 stars for "Whistlespeak" -- just unambitious once again and steering clear of any controversy. There were some nice moments with the depth added to the pre-warp people, the ritual with the bowls to heal the older woman. But ultimately this is a weak mish-mash of well-worn classic Trek territory. The conclusion is stated that technology is a massive responsibility in our DSC lesson of the week. Just mediocre overall.

Couple of thoughts:

- I couldn’t stop thinking about Deanna Troi sending Geordi to his death on the bridge command test.

- Breaking the PD because your friend is in mortal danger seems like the worst reason. Also, is it really necessary to be so egregious in it? Burnham smashes virtually every belief these people have AND with no good reason shows the priest his planet from space! Why?

- I appreciate Discovery’s LGBTQ+ representation and example setting. However, I feel this works best by simply doing, not telling. For example, not once in-universe did anyone ever mention that Sisko was a man of colour in a command position (I’m not a native speaker, hope that is a non-offensive term). That makes it normal, which is exactly what it should be. Discovery is so forced though: often the representation seems to me unnaturally emphasized in dialogue and storylines, which gives the show a preachy feeling to me. And, I have the distinct feeling that some actors were given a pass on acting skills because they ticked a certain representation box. There MUST be better trans actors out there than the person playing Gray.

I saw this article on Kurtzman's latest commentary on Star Trek and read this quote:

"I only want to make another Star Trek show if there's something to say. I don't wanna do it just to do more. I think that would be a huge disservice to Star Trek; it would be a huge disservice to the fans, and I think the fans would feel it instantaneously. They would know this is not authentic."

I loved reading it. Perhaps this is why he's/they've decided to cancel Discovery. They saw the latest season and realized it's not panning out. I wished they could find a way to make it work because I've always loved Discovery's concepts, but who knows what's really happening behind the scenes other than them?


https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/star-trek-universe-new-shows-movies-plans-alex-kurtzman-update/#:~:text=I%20only%20want%20to%20make,fans%20would%20feel%20it%20instantaneously.

@Jammer: "I'm not sure which is "better." The first iteration of the show (that is, the first two seasons)"

Absolutely no question in my mind - the first two seasons. Season 3 mid-stream is where I abandoned any hope of the show resembling something I could call myself a fan of.

While S1 was not without its flaws, I was still engaged with the story and characters. Again, hit and miss, but they were at least *trying* something new, which could be respected.

The shift to yellow alert was Lorca's turn to moustache-twirling villain and the abrupt Multiverse-ending stakes thrust upon the show, followed by a contrived and ham-fisted resolution to Fuller's leftovers before start afresh in S2. Whatever would have become of the show under him, I sincerely doubt his version of Burnham would have resembled the character now helming the series.

I think they were on the right track S1. It needed refinement, not the misguided course correction into the format we're currently presented with. Jumping nearly a thousand years into the future did not do the show any favors, IMO.

I will remember Discovery as a show I had high hopes for, but that never came close to living up to its true potential.

And whisper crying, of course.

Anyway, two more weeks on the sidelines and I'll be back for the penultimate episode. Be interested to see how well I follow along after tapping out after the first episode.

@Jammer

Hmm.. 'DISC attempting to be all fresh and new by setting out in the distant future...' and here I had thought/hoped that the point was to quarantine this disruptive experiment from the rest of the foreseeable Trek timeline ...

This episode tries to weave a dramatic conflict out of whole cloth in the last 8 minutes, which is a common problem with modern trek. This time, Burnham and the priest have to speedrun his crisis of faith, which is both introduced and resolved entirely through expository dialogue, practically handwaving the massive cultural upheaval that is sure to follow.

How did the Hamlans evolve on the world prior to the installation of the water towers? How could Burnham possibly know that different colored moss was the result of a mutation? Who thought that watching Tilly slowly jog up a hill would make for exciting television?

I'm not a fan of Who Watches the Watchers but it looks like a minor work of genius compared to this. 2 1/2 stars? I can't imagine what a 1 star episode of Discovery would be like.

I would agree that in hindsight S1 was the most engaging, al­though it suf­fer­ed among others from a spec­ta­cu­lar­ly dis­taste­ful fi­na­le and an ali­enat­ing atmo­sphere. I can­not, how­ever, praise S2, for the en­tire plot got ret­con­ned by the mid of the sea­son, and in the end I did not know what I had watch­ed. In all fair­ness, S2 did have a cou­ple of good epis­odes not con­nect­ed to the botch­ed sea­son arc.

A similar fate befell PIC, with an ambitious but mis­guid­ed and ul­ti­mate­ly at most par­tial­ly suc­cess­ful S1, fol­low­ed by a dis­astrous S2 and a nost­algia-milk­ing S3 which for the first time felt like Star Trek, but not Star Trek in its prime.

I think we are at the end of Star Trek version 3, with SNW may­be run­ning for an­other one or two sea­sons, LD and PRO gone and not much anti­cipa­tion for new pro­jects. I expect the Star­fleet Aca­de­my show to be re­leas­ed a year after Rian John­sons’s Star Wars movie trilogy. ☺

They have already built the sets for Starfleet Academy. It's happening, folks. Streaming doesn't really do pilots--the entire first season is the pilot--but at this point at the very least a pilot will get made. And since this is Star Trek, if a pilot gets shot, then a pilot gets released, even if repurposed as a "TV movie."

. . .

Galadriel, I don't want to get into it really, but I have no idea what you're talking about with DIS S2. You've said this a few times now and I don't know where you're getting it from. I have a million issues with the season, but its plot does make sense, albeit with the usual caveat that no time travel story can ever 100% make sense. Remember Burnham's mother was the original Red Angel. Remember that she's the one who sent the original signals that Starfleet noticed. This is why they know more will be coming (those that later turn out to be sent by Burnham). Remember they are in a time loop caused by Burnham's mother. When unlikely events happen, it is because Burnham's mother has iteratively arranged circumstances through revision so that they will happen. Specifically so Burnham will both be who she needs to be and where she needs to be to stop Control and prevent the future galactic apocalypse. At the time I actually thought this was a clever narrative conceit to explain and correct the unlikeliness of the character--which has been perhaps the most central, glaring, and unabated criticism of this show from day one--but when S3 rolled around, they just kept writing her the same way even though she was out of the time loop and mommy wasn't artificially setting her up to be awesome anymore.

Discovery Season 2 was hurt by hackery as a result of the abrupt change in showrunners. The new ones had (or were instructed to have) a different agenda for the season. This is why the faith-based explorations ("New Eden") were largely jettisoned and why (more problematically plot-wise) we had episodes at the end of the season waiting for where the signal(s) would appear, when they had already appeared with a detailed map in the first episode. Some cool stuff, the return of the Talosians and Vina, especially, and Pike and the SNW crew of course, but it really doesn't hold together particularly well. I often wish I could see the alternate universe version of the show where Fuller didn't leave.

I'll skip on the Prime Directive pile-on and say that we literally laughed out loud the human sacrifice scene began. We both saw it coming, it was that obvious, and the only question was how long before they went there.

At least we both got to scream another Ricky and Morty quote at Discovery, in this case, "These people are backwards savages! They eat every third baby because they think it makes fruit grow bigger."

The sheer stupidity of Michael teaching a pre-industrial/pre-warp society how to maintain future tech. That let us quote from another franchise, "Look Michael, I'm sure in the Federation, isolinear chips are available in any corner drug store, but here on Halem'no, they're a little hard to come by."

Can't decide if that was the dumbest moment of the episode or if that award goes to the scene where Tilly and Michael swallow the strange alien substance without first scanning it with their hidden tricorders to see what it was and confirm it was safe for human consumption.

🤦🏻‍♂️

Jammer: "Instead we get throwback comfort food."

Yup, but I am not upset we did.

Most screwed-up line?... Ohvahz: "As you wish" ...

WTF, he quits trying to talk his daughter out of the race and just like that walks over for some bubbly conversation with a smile on his face? We didn't know the stakes at the time, but when Ravah was dying... it made me feel like he really didn't give a hoot about his daughter. (or didn't think she would win the race, but that's a pretty huge risk)

So, the Denoblians have the same Prime Directive Star Fleet does? I don't remember Phlox ever speaking of it. I'm guessing not as they built these huge weather towers and all. The PD is a Star Fleet thing, not a Federation thing, right?

How many were hoping Michael hold true and not break the PD? ... lol ... no more Tilly.

No, we all knew she was going to break it... but they could have beamed her in around the corner... then she could have hidden it easier.

I thought SMG's acting in this one was really nice.

No more Saru??? I hope he has to come in and save the day at the end.

Culver... he literally has come back from the dead... and this is messing with him? I don't remember anyone having hangover issues with Jadzia's hosts...

2.5 star is about right.

The Prime Directive is a Federation thing, not a Starfleet thing. However, someone pointed out elsewhere that we do not, in fact, know that Denobula is a Federation member. We can assume it is, and it's a safe assumption, but it has never been stated and so we do not know it for certain.

Factors in favor of Denobula being a Federation member: a Denobulan delegation was present at the founding of the Federation. A Denobulan was on the Federation science team that found the Progenitor tech.

Factors in favor of Denobula not being a Federation member: Denobula was not one of the four founding members of the Federation, which are, of course, Earth, Vulcan, Andor, and Tellar. The Federation routinely works with members of nonaligned species based on merit, even for highly classified research. The Denobulan on the Federation science team that found the Progenitor tech later fucked the Prime Directive in the ass.

@ Jeffrey's Tube

"The Prime Directive is a Federation thing, not a Starfleet thing."

I'm not sure this is correct. I will do more research, but I don't remember it ever applying to anyone outside Starfleet.

From "Angel One":

DATA: Mister Ramsey is correct, Counsellor. The Odin was not a starship, which means her crew is not bound by the Prime Directive. If he and the others wish to stay here, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

So I guess any non-Starfleet Federation citizen can go around conquering planets with impunity?

Homeward. Worf's brother isn't Starfleet. He is bound by the Prime Directive.

Angel One got some things wrong about the PD as clearly shown by later episodes. It was early TNG. It's one of the cases where we have to squint at it a little to make it fit. The Klingons also aren't Federation members, to cite other lines from early TNG we have to gloss over or squint at.

@Jeffrey's Tube

"Homeward. Worf's brother isn't Starfleet. He is bound by the Prime Directive."

I only think he sort of was because he was on the Enterprise.

NIKOLAI: Exactly. We have the power to save some of them. All we have to do is exercise it.
PICARD: We are sworn to uphold the principle of the Prime Directive, and until that is changed there is no further course of action that we can take. Is that understood?

Tilly had an open comlink the entire time she was in the chamber and didn’t say a word about the wall inscription for the fifth tower being the same as that on the vial until she was rescued by Michael. Was she going to take it to her grave?

2/4 stars. Not too bad, but I have to agree with 90% of the people on here in thinking: If you’re going to break the Prime Directive, at least make it nuanced and morally ambiguous. I think if they had planned on making a PD episode, they should have really put in some thought into making a novel resolution.

I have stopped expecting that, though, so with expectations set low, much of this episode was in fact enjoyable. Tilly had some great comedic moments, and the Culber’s grandmother scene was especially touching. It would be nice to go into a holodeck and talk with my dad like that. The problem with making 10 part mystery box seasons, is that each episode should tell an engaging story and still make great contributions to the overall narrative (Sweet Tooth does a great job of this). Unfortunately, very little was added to the overall narrative, and the pace dragged and felt like filler because it is filler. Nice try though!

Two stars. Another handsomely mounted and interminably dull late-series Discovery outing, with an away mission to a primitive culture as padding and filler to stretch out a boring season arc. I can’t wait for this series to be over.

The away mission somehow reminded me of that 7th season TNG episode right before the finale that could best be described as “native Americans in space.” In other words, a pointless excursion into a one-off culture that feels vaguely like cultural pandering. It’s like watching a Disney take on indigenous cultures.

Jammer’s rating is far too kind to this episode. But I appreciate his sharp critiques.

Like Jammer, I especially miss the unexplained and prolonged absence of Doug Jones, who was the sole coherent and substantial character other than Burnham to inhabit every season of the show before now. While minor bridge characters popping in and out can be accepted in-universe as furloughs or different work shifts, as Trek fans used to do to forgive the budget limitations on TOS, it’s truly baffling to see it in Discovery with Saru right before the series finale. It’s like he’s been written off the show and Tilly has been subbed back in, but Tilly isn’t as interesting or crucial a character. Boo.

The Culber stuff with his holographic grandma was fairly interesting. It made me wish the series spent more time allowing the characters to remember and process that everyone they knew died 9 centuries earlier. I kinda wish the ship was back in the 23rd century; it was a more interesting setting for Discovery, as the ISS Enterprise reminded us a few episodes ago.

Discovery started with high hopes and is ending like the last season of Enterprise, with vibes of “boredom TV” that feels like something from 20-30 minutes ago. Unlike ST Picard and even SNW, where you feel the main characters have genuinely bonded together, there’s nothing that ties Burnham, the lead character of Discovery, very closely to anyone. And that makes it hard to identify with her or any of the ciphers around her in these final stories.