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Icarus32soar
Tue, Mar 2, 2021, 12:28am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Behind the Lines

I loathe that orange woman with a vengeance. The greatest creep in the entire ST universe. She wants humanoid sex and a changling link with Odo, and she then wants him to kiss and tell, and he like the idiot he is goes along with it and literally loses the plot. Founder, my foot! Complete and utter tripe.
Pity that Nana Visitor who continues to shine and be scintillating has to share this episode with this "alien".
No. Just no!
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Robbie
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 10:15pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang

The more I think about it, the more negative I feel about this episode. I got sick and tired of the whole “holosuite/deck malfunction” trope which was done to death in TNG, and I don’t like it any better here. The whole “Sisko (actually, Brooks) gets on his racial soapbox” thing REALLY pissed me off. Others have made very good comments on it. Once again, the show essentially said “fuck the whole Star Trek premise, fuck the illusion that this is a show about the 24th century when human racism is dead and buried, and has been for centuries, and it makes no sense for a man of the 24th century to talk about ‘our people ‘ in 20th century terms, because we want to earn 20th century merit points”. It’s utterly ridiculous that Kassidy has to give a speech to Sisko about ideals that have been held and practiced for HUNDREDS OF GODDAMN YEARS. Idiotic.
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Dave in MN
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 9:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 1: The Mandalorian

I want to defend The Mandalorian and say it's also "escapist" and "fun", but recent behind-the-scenes events with the production have ruined any goodwill the show had built up with me.

Have at it.
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James
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 9:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 1: The Mandalorian

@Bob & Booming

Are we watching the same show? The Mandalorian is none of those things. It’s trite and prosaic.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 7:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 1: The Mandalorian

Booming said "No, it is not. It is uninventive and formulaic."



i couldn't disagree more. It is unoriginal and clichéd.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 7:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Deadlock

Craig asked "Why didn't Janeway send any of her crew into escape pods?"

From the script:

JANEWAY: Let's try a different tact. Instead of trying to merge the two ships, let's try to separate them. Maybe we could divide the antimatter between us.
JANEWAY 2: I'm afraid not. We've been studying that theory. B'Elanna tells me that any attempt to disrupt the antimatter supply will destroy us all. What about evacuating your crew to my ship? It might get a little crowded, but we could manage.
JANEWAY: We've been studying that theory. And my B'Elanna tells me that sending any more than five to ten people through the rift would radically alter the atomic balance of the two Voyagers. We'd both be destroyed.




Dirk Hartmann said: "I think "duplicated" does not necessarily mean that one was the "original" and the other a "copy". Rather we should think that due to the "rift" Voyager "split" like an amoeba"


^ I like this theory.




Quincy asked: "For what reason do the writers think it's a good idea for the Captain, not only to give orders that an experienced crew would already know to initiate, but to constantly tell that experienced and competent crewman how to do? "

I see what you're saying, but I kind of like it when the captains have their own field of expertise, like Archer being a good pilot or Picard being an amateur archaeologist. I think Janeway having a science background is interesting.



Silly noticed: "The Janeway vs Janeway bit is good, but they are standing REALLY close together"

Yeah, that was a poorly shot scene. I've noticed a similar problem with other Trek "double" episodes, but this one takes the cake.



isKes>Seven? caught a pretty big flub in the script:

"Okay, maybe I just didn't get this part but why does Harry say "I didn't have time to ask" when questioned by the doc of the other Doctor's name? Implying he was only there for a few minutes when he was actually part of the crew for a couple years on *that* ship? And furthermore, why would the Doctor even *think* that the other doc WOULD have a name if literally EVERYTHING else up until the point of entering the plasma stream was exactly the same? "


Absolutely right. It's like the author lost track of his own story at the end.




My favorite bits:

- The damaged Voyager being the one that survived.
- The Vidiians methodically marching through the ship
- "Welcome to the bridge."
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CaptainMercer
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 7:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 2: The Child

I love this episode. I expected to like this series because.. it's Star Wars.. but I did not expect it to have the sense of whimsy it had. I remember when it aired, I didn't have high expectations.. but I was so taken by how well that opening action sequence with the jawas was. It was certainly a gift for me, because Jawas were always a favorite of mine. Jawas exemplify the kind of humor Star Wars excels at.. just humor from the funny sounds they make of the way they behave.

But the best thing about this episode is what we learn about Mando. I'm NOT talking about his background and history and all of that that most people want to know now now now. But this episode tells us about the Mandalorian himself, his skills (taking out a few guys at once in the cold open) and his limitations.. he can't take down the jawas. We learn about his patience, and his ability to learn and work together with others.
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Booming
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 6:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 1: The Mandalorian

No, it is not. It is uninventive and formulaic.
But Baby Yoda dragged me through two seasons, Corona might have also played a role. I'm not sure that I can stand another season of this. The action gets reeeeeeeeaaaaally pointless later on and then there are the parts that give glimpses of the rest of the galaxy, of the bigger picture and that is where the narrative really starts to fall apart. More and more old star wars creeps in. It is also often unintentionally silly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelA7KRLINA&ab_channel=Gabriel
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 5:49pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 1: The Mandalorian

I gave the show 5 episodes before giving up on it. It's derivative and predictable.
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Jammer
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 5:29pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 1: The Mandalorian

Reviews for Chapters 1 through 4 now posted.
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Crobert
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 4:58pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S2: The Icarus Factor

We open on the anbo-jitsu scene.

Daddy Riker says some stuff like "Anbo-jitsu the long revered martial arts method of blah blah blah"

Will must have been like "Who are you saying that for? We've had anbo-jitsu fights dozens of time."

Even for late 80s standards that was some goofy exposition.

Good to know that Daddy Riker really revved Pulaski's nacels.
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Crobert
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 4:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S2: Time Squared

I like Picard killing his future self but I just wish we had gotten more explanation as to why it might make sense.

At first I thought it was stupid and bizarrely heartless but the more I think about it I think I get it. If we imagine ourselves moving through time as some sort of "Droste Effect" - sort of similar to the multiple Datas in a previous episode - then in this instance a particular one of Picard's future iterations had become desynced with time and was either caught in or causing a loop.

Present Picard killing Shuttle Picard isn't a very clever solution but it removes this weird out of sync future Picard and restores the current linear path.

But why explain that when, instead, we can spend valuable time with Troi telling us how Picard feels despite the fact that Stewart had done a perfect job of already showing us via, you know, acting.
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Silly
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 4:23pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Heart of Stone

Wow, a lot of discussion in this one!

Easily commenter is right, people tend or tended to dismiss the Ferengi. There are good reasons, especially if you watched all this first run.

They were introduced originally as the new villains to the Federation, but they were written and depicted so badly, that fell apart almost immediately.* So they were quickly retooled as comedy relief, but very rarely were they actually haha funny.

I remember watching this first run, and I didn’t care much at all for the Nog part, though I certainly DID take notice of his outburst. It is fascinating to consider how many viewers had the same dismissive attitude as Sisko to him.

I also didn’t find the Odo/Kira story very good either. I’ll watch it again, but I really don’t think it’s a terribly good episode, though it is quite significant for both Odo and Nog’s long term arcs. And, of course, the Founder. This really isn’t reset button zone, because the Founder got what she wanted.

And btw, those of us watching first run had little reason to expect long term character arcs, so we weren’t really viewing it that way. It wasn’t until the third season that the show really began doing that.


*If only Voyager had learned so quickly what a stillbirth the Kazon were as enemies.
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Maq
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 3:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S2: The Royale

So very silly and enjoyable.
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Crobert
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 3:53pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S2: The Royale

I never found a reason to care or be concerned. They're stuck in a simulation of some kind ok but there's no real urgency to get out.

Terrible trade in on an interesting opening of finding a piece of NASA salvage but I guess they wanted to avoid anything close to V-GER?

The best thing to come out of this episode is the gif of Riker fist pumping after Data throws a winner.

Considering how often I groan about stuff in TNG it was rich to see Picard struggling with the 'dark and stormy night' opener.

Feel my pain Jean Luc. Feel my goddamn pain.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 1:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Phage

Here's an animated gif of Neelix being shocked if anyone is interested:

https://i.imgur.com/DnCfxYr.gif
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 1:37pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Alliances

-They spent two seasons saying the Kazon were a threat to Voyager. Yeah, they sucked, but as I said, they were intended to be a huge obstacle to be overcome.

- They are a FORMER slave race that has been successfully using extremely advanced tech for decades.

- Has a replicator ever popped out anything as dangerous as a heavily armed warp capable starship? Because the Kazon already have those.

- Yes, the Borg are a bigger threat and that's kind of my point:

Janeway season two: "I can't give a microwave to a street thug!"

Janeway season 4: "We must give nukes to Nazi Germany!"
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Jeffrey Jakucyk
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 1:19pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Alliances

"The Kazon are supposed to be a deadly threat."

They're a threat in the way that roving gangs of thugs are a threat. They're nothing like the Borg or the Hirogen.

"Basic replicators aren't weapons, the Kazon are already a highly advanced species (just not as advanced as the Federation)."

But they're not an advanced species. They're a slave race that overthrew their oppressors (the Trabe) and stole their ships. They're Pakleds ("we need things to make us go"). The Borg even considered them too unremarkable to assimilate.

Also, replicators aren't weapons in and of themselves, but they can make weapons. Aside from things they hand-wave away as unable to be replicated, they're just matter-energy converters. (X) mass raw material in = (X) mass something else out. Or substitute a huge amount of energy input to get some bit of mass output (E = mc^2). Put in enough raw matter or energy and you can get out a hamburger, a billet of plutonium, a gun, a computer, or any number of parts and pieces.
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DonMel
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 12:58pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S2: The Outrageous Okona

Was I seeing things or was Wesley crushing hard on the Okona? He couldn't take his eyes off that man.

That brings to me ask with a show about the progressive optimistic future why no gay characters?
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 12:50pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Paradise Syndrome

"Seems that racism against Native Americans is still alive and well if barely anyone is even realizing that this wasn't okay."


In the words of the late great Warren Oates: Lighten up, Kirok.


If I like Alice in Wonderland, does that make me a pedophile? Do I have to explicitly state that I am definitely NOT a pedophile every time I discuss the book?

I hope not. But that seems to be the standard you are employing here.

There is a difference between liking something because of its problematic qualities, and liking something despite its problematic qualities.

I think it's a mistake that, just because someone doesn't begin every discussion with a disavowal of all the unacceptable things in a work of fiction, that they must actually agree with them.

If you have a problem with something then by all means speak up. There are racists in this world, and I have read comments here that probably qualify as racist. But I think automatically assuming the worst of your fellow posters is a mistake.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 12:09pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Faces

Excellent point, Luke. That could be the basis of an entertaining episode that might be very topical today.

Just because she appears to be fully human, would she be? How would B'elanna change mentally when her physical appearance was altered? Would she be happy to finally be what she always thought she was, or would she be disappointed to find out that she's still the same person she always was?
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 12:02pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Alliances

I disagree , Luke.

The Kazon are supposed to be a deadly threat. The ship is supposed to be in deadly peril. Killed by the Borg or killed by broccoli headed dorks - dead is dead.

The entire Kazon arc is a mess so it's kind of hard to even discuss it. The gist is that the sects (at least some of them) need food and water replicators. Janeway says she can't give them the tech because it would upset the balance of power between the sects, but that doesn't make sense. Basic replicators aren't weapons, the Kazon are already a highly advanced species (just not as advanced as the Federation), and most importantly, the balance of power will not be upset if it is shared among all the sects. Hungry people are fed which reduces tensions amongst the Kazons, and Voyager gains allies to help them make it through a dangerous section of space.

.....


I don't have a problem with trading the holo technology to the Hirogen. Well, at least I wouldn't if the Voyager writers didn't insist on making holographic people real, sentient beings. Moriarity was supposed to be an incredible fluke. The Voyager writers seemed to throw that idea out whenever it became convenient, and brought it back when they wanted consequences free holodeck romp.

......

The Borg/Species 1472

Chakotay made a very eloquent case for why they should turn back and try to find another way home, but Janeway was not going to be persuaded to waste even six months.

Why not take Chakotey's advice and wait a little while and gather a bit more info before making such a huge decision? The fate of the galaxy could have be at stake - look before you leap. But, noooo, Janeway would hear none of that from her trusted first officer. She decided to give the Borg a bioweapon that could/would lead them to assimilating a species that could make them exponentially more powerful just so she "wouldn't waste six months" on a journey that's supposed to take 75 years.

Would taking six months to gather info on Specie 8472 been a bigger waste of time than exploring the Amelia Earhart planet, the planet with the psychotic clown, or futzing around with a holodeck full of crazy Irish villagers?

What's worse, it turns out her hasty decision was wrong. The Borg try to break the alliance in "Scorpion", "In the Flesh" reveals that Species 8472 isn't as savage as previously believed, and "Hope and Fear" lets us know that the Borg were able to assimilate Arturis' entire civilization as a direct result of the Borg winning the war.

Janeway to Arturis:"I'm sorry for what happened to your people, but try to understand. I couldn't have known."

Well, maybe if you had followed Chakotay's advice...


Worst case scenario with the Kazon: a civil war between the sects. Which has been going on for over 200 years now anyway The only difference would be that they would be well fed now.

Worst case scenario with the Borg: They assimilate Species 8472, become immeasurably more powerful, and assimilate every species in the galaxy.



So, to sum up: the writing on Voyager is frequently very bad. Instead of writing Janeway in a consistent manner, or showing how her character evolved into having different ideals, she swings wildly back and forth between a Prime Directive hardliner and a "I'll do whatever it takes to get my crew home!" attitude depending on which version will create the most drama that week.


p.s. Why didn't Janeway demand that the Borg send Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant as one of her conditions for sharing the weapon?
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Luke
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 12:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S6: Fair Haven

Maybe it’s just that 2020s “entertainment” is so bad that it makes dreck like this look good in comparison.

Bob (a different one) and I are in complete agreement - I still hate it.
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Luke
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 11:54am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Faces

I suppose this is as good a time to bring this up as any....

If Torres is so uncomfortable with her cranial ridges, why doesn’t she just have The Doctor cosmetically remove them? It’s established that Starfleet/Federation medical science can do this as early as the ENT era. And from an out-of-universe perspective, it was established as practical all the way back in TOS: “The Enterprise Incident” when Kirk was altered to look like a Romulan and back again.

Seriously, this is a setting where they can make Humans look like Klingons or Cardassians like Bajorans and vice-versa. Making Torres look like a Human shouldn’t be that hard!
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 1, 2021, 11:35am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Death Wish

You know what would have been interesting? If this had been shot as (mostly) a two man play featuring Gerrit Graham and John de Lancie. 45 minutes of ethical debate and witticisms with occasional brief scenes of the two Q popping up in various parts of the universe to help them illustrate the arguments they're making.


p.s. After watching "All Good Things" it's impossible to go back to viewing Q as a simple (omnipotent) prankster. The Q on Voyager are just too human. Any plot where they treat humanity as equals (or anything remotely close to it) is just unbelievable. Albert Einstein might study an atom, but he doesn't ask an atom for advice about his personal life.
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