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James White
Thu, May 28, 2020, 1:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron and Eamon - I agree with you both. CBS had a "sure thing" with Picard that they cashed in on. So, the quality control was probably lacking. Still, if they had bothered to ask the core ST fanbase what is essential to them, the end result may have been closer to the Picard of TNG. The thesis they operated under - that this Picard would be wholly different than the previous Picard, existing in a fundamentally changed Starfleet - probably doomed the whole thing. You can't "undo" Picard in this manner. But, again, this supposes that Kurtzman and his team had the wherewithal and talent to stay true to TNG while bringing a fresh message and set of challenges in a competent manner. They obviously did not.

Moreover, as Eamon indicated - they never needed to.
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Mertov
Wed, May 27, 2020, 11:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

One terrific show in my opinion that nobody has mentioned is 'Counterpart.'
Has anyone seen it?
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James White
Wed, May 27, 2020, 5:31pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

The truly sad thing is that STP didn't have to suck. It sucked because of factors having nothing to do with the underlying idea of revisiting one of the most iconic sci fi characters near the conclusion of his life. There are many, many ways in which this story could have worked. But that presupposed that a "work of art" was ultimately what CBS desired. What it prioritized. When you have a new show, you need a high quality product. You need to be infused with some combination of exceptional acting talent, writing, substantial issues (or kinetic scenes), depending on what it is you seek to achieve. You hope for those iconic moments - that transcend an episode or even a season - that viewers remember. These keep us coming back. They become the backbone for the mythology that develops. They are the "art" upon which the product depends.

With ST, CBS went full on mercenary. Fan service. Check. Return of iconic character. Check. Cool F/X. Check. Diverse cast. Check. Mystery box. Check. Plot, coherency, intelligence, vision, depth, and the grasping of human beings to understand some higher truth - something bigger than themselves - all of this. UNNECESSARY. Not undesired. Just not needed to succeed. Perhaps too much of a risk. Perhaps not fully attuned to what the younger demographic wants. Who knows.

The sad thing is that STP could have been a great drama. Perhaps even exceptional. But it was never given a chance. Because a hack producer, a mediocre writing team with little to no understanding of ST (as a whole), and a bunch of corporate fucks (much like Disney) decided that success would be exclusively defined by immediate viewership. That the artform itself was irrelevant to the formula in which success was defined.

In the end, we don't hate STP in a vacuum. We hate it because we understand the contempt that CBS held for the entire thesis of ST. A greedy, short-sighted, shallow and intellectually fallow organization contorting ST into something that it could never be. I stand by my original conclusion: fuck you Kurtzman. Now, I'm just adding a few more names.
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Chrome
Wed, May 27, 2020, 1:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: A Private Little War

Yeah, Peter, I don't think there's any doubt Kirk is unhappy arming the people here. He's despoiling what he used to think of as the "Garden of Eden", after all. He even has to give the order twice to Scott at the end who is confused about why Kirk would be asking for a bunch of weapons. The way Kirk's friendship with Tyree plays into this is that he's able to help Tyree man up and be able to defend himself in war. Kirk says this isn't the best life for Tyree, but at least it's a *chance for life* for him and his people.

The PD doesn't apply here because the Klingons already messed with the natural development of the people. Kirk's solution is supposed to correct that interference. But as the episode discusses, it seems likely to lead to escalation and ramped up interference by Starfleet. Maybe in the Star Trek universe, escalation never happens and the Klingons back down, but in the parallel real world conflict *this episode mentions specifically* that wasn't the case.
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Chrome
Wed, May 27, 2020, 11:43am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: A Private Little War

@Peter G

Actually, I don’t have any issue with Nona’s character; in fact I rather like her. I just don’t think her motivations were fleshed out very well. Unfortunately, without more information, the episode makes her a shallow harbinger of evil when, as you described, it should be more complex than that.

The problem with saying that Kirk was "just trying to help" is that Kirk on his own accord would not help the Hill people and the episode addresses that. If the Village tribe (why don't these groups have names?) developed guns on their own, then it's implied Kirk would leave the Hill people to their fate and let them die. It's not until Klingon interference is confirmed that Kirk is forced to get involved as a matter of duty. This makes it look like Kirk's interests are in line with Starfleet's and the burden he has to bear is for Starfleet's cause - i.e. winning or maintaining balance against the Klingons.

One thing the episode gets right, as I mentioned, is that it doesn't look like Kirk wanted to get involved in arms escalation in the first place. The episode also removes Spock from the discussion and therefore logic from Kirk's position and implies he's under some sort of drugged influence that impairs his judgment. So, I don't think the episode really wants to make us to believe Kirk was 100% doing the right thing. It's more like Kirk was in the classic JFK position where his liberal ideals to help the little guy and Democracy sound good in theory, but in hindsight we can see that the Nixon/Bones position of not getting involved in a hopeless fight (even for a just cause) was the stronger position.
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Chrome
Tue, May 26, 2020, 7:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: A Private Little War

Here we have a right good set-up, an interesting analogy, some great moments by the Big 3 and a smart black doctor who the characters don't make odd remarks about. Plus, we even get some Klingon shenanigans and gorgeous Trek girl. This has the framework for a classic TOS episode.

Unfortunately, Nona the Trek girl is just a plastic villain (who I guess serves as an Eve metaphor in the garden of Eden?) without complexity. They could've made Nona interesting in a number of ways like: a) Making it clear she wanted to seize Tyree's power and start some sort of matriarchy; b) make her an agent of the Klingons helping to instigate a doomed fight; or c) she really loved Tyree and wanted him to become the strong leader her people needed.

Of course, I could let the Nona stuff go because the underlying Prime Directive conflict is an interesting one. Unfortunately, Kirk's solution feels oddly on the wrong side of history. I don't know if NBC was unable to show it, but the U.S. policy of containment in Vietnam was not working in 1968. A few months after this episode airs, the Tet offensive will make it clear that maintaining a "balance of power" in Vietnam was an untenable solution. Of course the Trek writers couldn't have known exactly how Vietnam would develop, but they probably should've stayed away from advocating military policies about an escalating conflict.

Another possibility is the episode wasn't about Vietnam at all and the writers were inspired by another proxy war where containment kind of worked... like Korea? Still, pretty spotty.

Anyhow, I can understand why arming peaceful people in a larger conflict might be the right thing to do in certain circumstances. And okay, Kirk is torn up over having to do it. So, although the policy presented appears to be a bad one, at least we know the characters also didn't like it much either.

Considering the good moments and morally difficult dilemma, I guess I will go ahead and maintain the balance of power in my rating award this 2 stars.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 3:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron - I can't disagree there. If Patrick Stewart would not play Picard as he was on TNG, they really should have said no. It's funny, because in the first episode of the PIC show, you see a glimpse of the old Picard in the interview. Then it's gone for most of the season. THAT MAN needed to come out. He can be older, wiser, even more taciturn. But he cannot be someone unrecognizable to the man that just dominated TNG for all those years.

As for Stewart himself, he's an actor. They're usually not nearly as clever as the characters they play. What do you do...

Take solace in the fact that you know better than the actor himself when it comes to Picard. And look for a brighter future for ST. Who knows, maybe Kurtzman will suffer an embolism when attempting to edit one of his meth-infused, shit scenes.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 3:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron - I agree as well. When Ridley Scott started fiddling with his Alien prequel films, that really bugged me. Lucas as well in the SW universe.

Don't sweat it. I thought the Halloween series was irredeemable. Then Carpenter told every director since the original to fuck off. And the result was fantastic. You never know what the future holds, especially for something as timeless as ST. In the meantime, things like Inner Light, Chain of Command, Darmok, BOBW, and so forth will always exist. Just declare Picard "over" with All Good Things. Or maybe even Nemesis if you can stomach it. Kurtzman sucks so bad that honestly I don't consider his shows ST.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 3:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Booming - as they say in this country, "not so fast, Jack" :)

As you said, let's get through the list. I'll list your comments and my "response" to each.

------------------------------------

-Black Mirror (apart from San junipero - which I love) it is a very dark show. I liked it more when nobody knew it.

Response: You forgot USS Callister (tough middle part but very uplifting ending); Striking Vipers (fun and engaging); Nosedive (light-hearted fare); Hang the DJ (romantic); and several others. It's not just SJ my friend. Also, a number of the other shows I would not consider "very dark." Yes, White Bear is brutal. But only a few get to that level.

-The Expanse: As I said, right now I have a problem with dark and depressing.

Response: Yes, you indicated this. But you also said there is very little "good sci fi shows" on today. Those are two different things. But I'll take you to mean that "good" = "optimistic." I don't think a majority of people would agree with you. Also, there is a quite a bit of humor in The Expanse. It's really not as bleak as you make it out to be. In fact, the realism adds to my optimism that in the future, at least there will be forces on both sides fighting it out. ST is a utopian drama. Good luck with that future.

-Dark: Not sci fi. And being German I must admit that I'm highly critical of everything German. I think we should stick with strange arthouse movies that nobody watches :) I saw the first season and thought eh...

Response: I disagree. It's a time-traveling mystery/drama that spans multiple timeframes. At best, you could argue it has other elements as well so it's a hybrid.

-Stranger Things: Also not a sci fi show and certainly not optimistic. I really liked the first season but now with the rest I can never watch it again. The later copy and paste seasons destroyed it for me.

Response: That's subjective. The show continues to garner a positive reception and critically favorable reviews. Also, if Stranger Things isn't sci fi, then neither is the X Files or Fringe. Telekinesis, inter-dimensional travel, alien creatures. Yes, this is hardly "hard sci fi." However, ST has warp drive and transporters, neither of which is grounded in anything close to legitimate science.

-The OA: Never seen it. Did not tickle my fancy. Doesn't look very optimistic, though.

Response: It's not overly optimistic. I liked parts of it. It has a very loyal fanbase which was very upset over its cancellation.

-Westworld. MOST PRETENTIOUS SHOW EVER. I liked the first season but after that it becomes pretty thoughtless torture porn. It's like they have to fill a murder quota every episode. Also this show is so much in love with itself.

Response: Actually, it doesn't. Season 2 is held in high regard and some prefer it over season 1. Season 3 is a bit more of a mixed bag. However, it's an attempt to "reboot" the show beyond the theme park motif. The primary criticism is that it is too unwieldy and complex. Hardly the "thoughtless torture porn" you are describing.

-Dr. Who. Yeah ok but for the time being I have no way of getting that even though I'm on three streaming services. It is also pretty redundant but silly enough to be enjoyable.

Response: Well, TNG was pretty redundant when you consider its connection to TOS. VOY is TNG redux. Enterprise is proto-TOS and far less enjoyable. Only DS9 deserves a truly innovative label. Dr. Who isn't for everyone. But it's fun and generally uplifting. A

-Devs: I don't have Hulu. While I really liked both Garland features (I actually like the less beloved Annihilation more) this also looks preeeety depressing.

Response: It's an existential tale with a sci fi premise. If you like Annihilation, you'll probably like this. Because Annihilation is all kinds of depressing and fucked up my friend.

-Handmaid's Tale: Here I jumped ship when I realized that Peggy from Madmen would never get out of it. Also torture porn. Maybe even worse than Westworld. Also very depressing.

Response: Or, incredibly well acted, tight script, compelling plot turns, and extremely believable drama. Torture porn takes up a very small part of it. That's a lazy critique.

-The Man in the High Castle: I liked it a bit but the leads are just too terrible and the plot is all over the place. Also dark and depressing.

Response: Leads are decent but I'll agree they could be better. Also, you've used you allotment of 5 "dark and depressing" criticisms. You're no longer allowed to use this.

-Lost in Space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OrS5Ym6vzU

Response: That was pretty funny. You rick-rolled me, YouTube style. Seriously, Lost in Space is so much better than it has any right to be. The sci fi and overall concepts may not be top tier, but the episodes are entertaining and the characters are well developed. Mediocre? No, Will Robinson!!

-The Orville: Yeah... eh it's ok. The only relatively positive show on your list. If you can ignore some troubling aspects like Stalky McrapeBlob.

Response: This show is worse than probably every other listing. It's at least uplifting so it gets an auto bump of 50% on your scale. Otherwise, it's pretty stupid.

-The Rain: Pass. That show came out when I started to tire of all this dark and depressing stuff that is 95% of "good" shows. People really have to pop a Xanax or get out more.

Response: Yeah, that's probably true of this show.

- Altered Carbon: I watched the first episode, I think, and found it pretty stupid and simplistic.

Response: One episode viewing. Congrats. It's not 2001. But it has it's moments.

- Humans: Never heard of it. Looks like Westworld but less gory but still depressing and dark.

Response: Maybe you don't like depressing and dark because you're prone to constantly saying "depressing and dark"

-Mr. Robot: Evil corporations control us all. I already live that, I don't need to see a show about it. :) I liked the first season, though, then it went off the rails. Consumed by it's own success, I assume.

Response: Partly true. It's a sold show across its seasons. Very few would say it "went off the rails." Also, if you live this, and you're depressed to the point that you cannot watch 75% of the sci fi out there, I suggest a change of scenery for you.

As I said before. Either the US has lost the ability to create positive outlooks or the audience is so depressed that they want nothing else. I do want positive.
The good place was nice, ok they dropped the ball in season three but still. I cried and laughed and at the end I didn't think that everything will get worse and life is a nightmare where we helplessly tumble towards our doom.

Response: We haven't lost the ability. We're in a holding pattern while we "clean house." The U.S. rarely does anything in an efficient or simple fashion. We move in cycles, and the change is often messy. I'm the eternal optimist. Things will get better. The U.S. would do well to embrace some of the features of your country, particularly when it comes to NOT SAYING FUCK YOU to every scientist on television.

Villeneuve is doing Dune... hmm that gives me some hope. I'm somewhat interested in the second age Tolkien thing Amazon spent a whooping billion on. I fear that it will be another tank driving through my early teenage memories. We shall see.

Response: Yep. I'm just having some fun with this. I very much want a return to form for ST. But, to play devil's advocate, you may have dismissed some of the shows above too quickly. Give a few another shot.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 1:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Booming - I do agree that Trek is unique. But maybe let it "die" for awhile. It can always come back, especially when the CBSs and Disneys are no longer fucking with our cultural artifacts. In the meantime, give a number of those a try. Also, there's another BSG remake/reboot on the way, a new vision of Dune, a new Nolan film, and plenty of indi sci fi projects.

Ultimately, Roddenberry was a visionary. So we have the extraordinary creation of a visionary's universe, brought to life by some very talented showrunners and writers. Same with Tolkien's LOTR. Possibly the same w/ Dune if Villeneuve can get it right.

Maybe what we need is a new visionary - one that creates a very positive, rich and mentally engaging future. Doesn't need to be ST. With all the talent out there, I say just give it time.

Also, and root for Alex Garland to land new projects.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 1:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Booming, here is what's out there -

Black Mirror
The Expanse
Dark
Stranger Things
The OA
Westworld
Dr. Who
Devs
Handmaid's Tale
The Man in the High Castle
Lost in Space
The Orville
The Rain
Altered Carbon
Humans
Mr. Robot

A few have ended recently. And there are others I obviously haven't mentioned. But I stand by what I said. That is a very strong list of sci fi shows.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 12:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Cody B - I suggest you do a little research before responding. I'll give you a mulligan.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 11:09am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

It's ironic that in an age in which there is an over-abundance of compelling and thought-provoking science fiction, so many are lamenting the "death of Trek." It's only a "cult" if you live myopically.
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James White
Tue, May 26, 2020, 11:05am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Cody B - do you think Mission Earth was "simple hack writing"?
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James Band
Tue, May 26, 2020, 9:59am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

@Megan @Drake I agree

I agree. For a fantastic series, the ending was too abrupt.
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James Band
Tue, May 26, 2020, 7:45am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

I really loved Voyager. The premise itself was extremely interesting and strong - a Starfleet vessel flung to the other side of the galaxy with a journey of 70 years back home to Earth. There were some wonderful episodes like "Blink of an Eye", to "Someone to watch over me" and the iconic quotes like "They've got lasers... A black man and some bald guy!"

There were also some interesting concept like the Macquis and moral Chakotay integrating with the Starfleet crew. I wish there had been an actual mutiny set of episodes though. The Equinox double bill was superb, though I would have liked to have seen a "Starfleet Pegasus" ship having joined them even if only briefly (perhaps sacrificing itself just like the Pegasus).

This finale though - I'm mixed. An entertaining episode yes. And as a finale it would be sad that it was ending. But it's bittersweet. I am at a loss to explain as to why they made it a bit 'anticlimactic' at the end. There should have been a GLORIOUS arrival on Earth (a little like the opening of the actual episode) and some celebration..or something.

There's also the time paradox, which definitely is not possible from what we know of temporal mechanics - like the TNG movie First Contact, or Voyage Home, events need to have already happened and thus time maintained rather than changing it. It was of course cool to see the Borg being destroyed like that, but surely maintain time somehow.

The series was great and each Star Trek series had its own greatness. Before the dark times. Before lense flare. Story and morality and exploration and wonderful ships made Star Trek. But I feel like several filler episodes like the weird boxing one, and ridiculous Chaotica episode could have been used to add on to the Finale episode to make Endgame have a grander more befitting ending for the Voyager crew. Showing them get home and giving them (and us) payoff to that significant achievement would have meant something and let you forgive the "changing of the timeline."

As far as the romantic pairings go, I thought personally the buildup of Janeway and Chakotay had been there from the start (especially after they got left on that planet). Whilst I understand it might have been difficult to "date" given the circumstances of command, I did feel it was hinted at the entire time. I mean they were having some pretty intimate dinners often. I don't think Picard dines with Riker every other evening. Hell I'm not even sure if Troi dined with anyone every other evening (though the holographic Deanna is another matter). I think it would have been befitting for Janeway and Chakotay to become one at the end.

As for Seven - I concur with above that it felt so out of place without any basis the pairing they showed us. I really liked Seven as a character - her humour and doing what was necessary a lot of the time. Personally, I did very much enjoy her and the Doctor singing. To me, it felt like forever Ensign Kim and Seven should have ended up together. There was chemistry there from the "Do you wish to copulate" scene and "I play the clarinet... You are not on the list Ensign". It would have also given both a happy ending. Of course, the Doctor needed a happy ending - should have met someone fascinated with his intellect when they arrive on Earth.

Should have really seen these characters we've watched for years get their happy ending. Seeing Tuvok meet his family, Tom reconnect with his father (same with B'Elanna"). Oh what could have been.

I loved Voyager, I just feel they could have done the ending better. Replace the 'filler episodes' by giving the finale more screen time and show the glorious ending on Earth. If necessary, skip forward several years to the SAME anniversary celebration this time with ALL characters present - except it's a reunion now they all made it back safely. That would have been poignant in my view.
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Shiva Menon
Mon, May 25, 2020, 3:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Sanctuary

I think this episode deserves a lot more credit than 2 stars. Its execution definitely leaves a lot to be desired,but otherwise it's Star Trek in its element.

This episode is about finding purpose.

Skrreeans are not intent on land-grabbing; they just believed they had found their purpose in life,so to say. Their religion led them to believe that settling on Kentanna,and "sowing seeds of joy",was their ultimate purpose in life. Bajor fits the bill of the planet that was drowned in pain and shit. Having travelled all this way, they're understandably desperate for any kind of affirmation that their journey was not in vain, so they're only happy to accept that Bajor is Kentanna.

Bajor's refusal is itself a very deep commentary on their current psychological state. Apart from their reasonable unwillingness about sharing their land with strangers, it also talks about their deep distrust of aliens who come with promises of help. The Skrreeans however are probably sincere,unlike the Cardassians.

Granted,the backstory for the prophecy is really poorly fleshed out. But the point is that even when offered a much better planet, the Skrreeans refuse, because Bajor is the planet where they are to "manifest their destiny". They believe their purpose was to settle on Bajor and help Bajorans out in their crisis. Any other planet wouldn't do, because...it simply isn't Kentanna.

Unfortunately, a lot of plot points have been unnecessarily exaggerated,like the completely unexpected flight and death of Tumak, or Haneek being unreasonably rude to Kira. Otherwise this is an episode that imo symbolises the spirit of Star Trek.

PS: Truly shocked to read Dave's comment. It's hard to imagine that there are Star Trek fans who are racists as well. How do these two traits co-exist?
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Chrome
Mon, May 25, 2020, 1:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: The Omega Glory

This one just doesn't gel despite bringing up so many big (and even a few great) ideas. The mysterious chemical that led to a "Fountain of Youth" was enough to carry the whole episode. Someone in Star Trek: Insurrection's writing room figured that out and made a whole movie about it, but I digress.

I think the patriotic Cold War American allegory could've worked but they needed to push the idea all the way. Take "Patterns of Force", for example. It's not a great episode but at least it sticks to the one idea about the power of facism and leaves us with a coherent message about the subject. Here, we get a few quotes about "liberty" and a hamfisted tribute to the Declaration of Independence but none of it seems to resonate with what those things mean to Americans, let alone what the implications of freedom meant during the Cold War.

This episode's worst crime is to have so much promise on big subjects and to utterly fail to deliver on them. Luckily, TOS gets it right most of the other times. 1.5 stars for Morgan Woodward being truly menacing and a good foil to Kirk. Still, what a waste.

P.S. As a special bonus, we find out who's a Canadian in this comments section. ;-)
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Mertov
Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:36am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Eamon and Majerus,

If you go back above to where it all started, you’ll see that it did with Omicron’s direct attack containing derogatory terms to me and other posters (if there any others). I can only hope that you don’t expect people who get attacked in such manner to stay silent in response.
--------------

Eamon,

I’ve been teaching at university (-ies) for over a decade and the topic of what they watch, or in general their TV consumption, is a topic of interest for me. I hold stats, numbers, how many watch what, etc. purely out of my own interest (there is more on this under one of Discovery’s episodes, no.9 I believe, so I won’t repeat it here). Take it for what it is worth to you but here are my basic observations: hardly any watch cable TV or even have cable (this semester, I had a total 56 students, only 4 had cable at home! Second most extreme ratio I’ve seen ever, first being 1 student out of 32 in Fall 2018). They know about my Trekkie-ness, heck they cannot miss it, my computer desktop is Station DS9 that they see on the projector whenever I show things for my lectures (they laugh). Most enter my classes having never watched Star Trek which confirms your observation that young people in general don’t watch Star Trek (though it’s a small sample size). But several do grow an interest and begin watching it after hearing about it so much from me, lol. My consistent observation has been that the ones who begin with DS9 and TNG claim it’s boring (unfortunately their first seasons are bad). But a few who stuck with them ended up liking it, only a few though. The ones that try TOS for the first time almost always find it too “cheesy” or even “stupid” (to which I strongly object, but…) Some have come in having seen the last 3 Kelvin movies (or one or two of them) and they like them but need a “push” to start watching the TV shows. The most success I had in converting to Trekkies (and I am not talking about many here, maybe 2, 3, or 4 out 10 who tried Trek TV in a given semester) was with those who began with the latest movies or Discovery. (My own daughter of 24 only became a fan after watching the 2009 movie and I made her watch DS9 afterward while I was doing a rewatch. Now, she is a Trekkie in general but she still finds TOS corny for example and won’t watch unless I happen to be watching one when she is with me. She likes TNG). I don’t have any Picard numbers to give because it’s new. Now, remember these are students who came into the semester not having seen any Trek on TV except maybe a minute in passing back when they were little with their parents. Overall, my experience from several years of this show me that more of them became Trekkies, so to speak, like the recent Treks. I wouldn’t label them as having a low quality as a standard either, it’s just a different generation. I am from the 50 and above generation of Trekkies having watched every series when they originally aired except TOS as reruns in early 70s and I know others my age who enjoy the current versions too. I liked each with varying degrees (except Enterprise) but today, I prefer myself the less episodic and more serialized version, though I’d watch any Trek series that comes up and still form an opinion based on its own merit. For example, I am not much of a fan of prequels in general and like I said, prefer the more serialized version now but if the new Pike series (thus a prequel) is episodic like I read somewhere, I’ll still give it a try and judge it accordingly.
---------------

Omicron:

“Also Check Mertov's posting history. This isn't the first time he has done this.”
This is a good idea except you conveniently forgot to include yourself for the history check, which would show that my points about your self-contradicting patterns are very much valid.

“Deliberate personal attacks (like what happened here recently) are a different problem.
Ha! Agreed! Like referring to posters using denigrating labels. Had you refrained from doing that, I would have never responded. But if you do, don't expect me to remain quiet from this point forward either.

And as for you last response to Majerus above,
"Kinda ironic, given the rest of your post."

Actually no, the rest of his post is very valid and consistent with what he said to me. So is what you said about not reading your posts if you don't like them, something you could abide by yourself if you wish to, but seemingly you don't practice what you preach to others here either.
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James White
Mon, May 25, 2020, 7:05am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Let me make this simple. I watched the show. It sucked. I will not watch it further.

As for self-awareness, focus your attention on the "real world." It's a mess, and a great many people are anxious, paranoid or outright delusional. On both sides. Because they won't look at the science. Won't think for themselves.

Help those people and quick bickering over a shitty television show.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 11:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron, nice attempt at meandering around the valid points I brought up and avoid facing up to your own double standards by playing the victim as usual.
The guy who posts dozens of vitriol posts himself about a show he doesn't even watch, practices the very behavior for which he castigates others, and when called out on all those, claims to be vtirol-victim himself and cries foul.
You are consistently outperforming yourself.

"Of-course, none of this is really about me personally."

I hate to bring your neatly arranged narrative down, but yes, it is...
I know you'd like to imagine that you are the spokesperson for a large group of people, create divisions, make things about "us" vs "them," etc... but alas, you are not that important, it's merely about you.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 5:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

ouztol:

Thanks, but you forgot to also include those who you venture to inform you that you are too stupid to understand what you are watching.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 5:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron:
-------------------------------------------

@Mertov
"It is bad enough when others tell a person what to think; some have taken it upon themselves to declare what others of us actually are thinking"

Eh, no.
----------------------------------------

"Eh, no" is correct... since that would not be me you quoted. Re-read and try again.

But I couldn't help but notice you outdid yourself again (when it rains it pours).

---------"If a guy came to the forums of a show that I like (say the Orville, or DS9) and he started posting scathing reviews, I would have jumped on the opportunity to discuss the show I'm a fan of."--------

Whaaat?

Would you like me to quote you on what you said to someone who wrote scathing things on The Orville board? Something like "don't you have better things to do in life than come to a discussion page of a show you dislike"??? It must have slipped your mind while you were trying to render your public service to poor souls. And how ironic that out of all people you would say that... At least the person you said that to *was* actually watching the show and not trashing it without having seen a second of it.

Absurd claims of saviorship, misquoting people, claiming expertise on a show (or two) you have not watched over people who have, stating that you'd do things when you've blatantly done the opposite (again, I'll be happy to find your quote).

Delusions of grandeur, and now straight-forward lying?? You are on a roll aren't you?
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 10:19am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

James:
-------------
"One problem is Kurtzman, who:
(a) Believes that good old Trek-style sci fi has no place in the 21st century."

I actually agree with him there. I don't want to watch new TNG or TOS episodes. Fortunately it's not a choice between that and Abrams/Kurtzman style.
-------------

Yes James, I feel the same way. No rehashing of what we have seen for decades. There are hundreds of those in trek archives and I love most of them and revisit them. I prefer the arcs now (and I feel certain the younger audience does too, I am around college students and most find old Star Trek corny and boring, I know because I convince them to try and only a few stuck with it so far, that's a whole other discussion).

Discovery, for example, had some episodes where it had a good mix of bottle plot combined with elements of the longer arc, those would be my favorite type (DS9 had plenty of those, excellent ones, in seasons 4-7). PIC solely stuck to the longer arc, it seems.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 10:09am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron:
-----------------But there other people who are sticking around for the wrong reasons. People who think they are obliged as Trek fans to accept every crazy thing that TPTB throws at them. People who are falling victims to marketing tactics that keep them at a perpetual state of "paying and complaining". People who literally complain that watching STP has diminished their enjoyment of TNG, and yet continue to watch the next episode without stopping to question what they are doing.

I'm not okay with people being used in this manner, which is why I'm campaigning for raising the fandom awareness of these things.

Do you have a problem with that?
---------------------------------

I have zero problem with you sounding absurd, because this one takes the cake, (well not quite, you outdid yourself again, see below).

Let’s see…

There are people – "victims," according to you – who are brainwashed into “perpetual state of ‘paying and complaining’” and watching a show because “someone” or “TPTB” is bullying them into watching it, despite having the complete freedom to flip the channel, and themselves knowing that they do. And the grand mensch Omicron is here to render a public service to these fallen "victims" and save them.

Entertaining to say the least… I will not tell you to get over yourself on this one, you are obviously way past that point.

Still not as absurd as arguing that you can judge a show and a shit on it dozens of posts per episode, despite not having seen a single second of it, because you read a review (never mind the flimsiness of that reasoning since you you piled on even before the review you refer to was even posted). And you’re talking to me about intelligence while you make this argument. Splendid.

And here comes the kicker:

------When a respected reviewer basically states "We've been treated to 10 hours of mostly nonsense which should really be condensed into two. None of it really mattered, and it was all a huge McGuffin aimed at getting us to the final scene of Picard saying goodbye to Data" and then proceeds to give the episode 3 stars and the entire show a positive summation - that's very strange indeed.-----

What? You are now giving a quote from Jammer to make your argument that it’s ok for you to claim expertise on a show you have not watched, when you just criticized few posts earlier yourself his “massive change in attitude” in reviewing PIC and claimed that it was “confusing as ****.”???

Marvelous…
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