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hpontes
Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 7:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

Wow read all the comments. The conversation that this episode brought definitely adds some points to the show.

I won't be an apologetic though, if someone is really religious and sensitive about it, and this episode felt personal, then it was meant to be.

If someone is open minded, and it allowed them some leeway into how religion today really is nonsensical at times like the show portrayed, as no one has _any_ proof that we didn't have a "Kelly", then that's awesome.

The TNG quotes shown and etc were apologetic. Star Trek has been very silly sometimes in trying really hard to make it seem like somehow many of our religions are still maybe true/right when they have met things that are hugely proofs of the opposite. The prophets, the center of the universe, the aliens that made all humanoid aliens, etc etc. It's pandering to viewership to allow them to feel comfortable watching it.

It does get supernatural a bit, Star Trek, which is always fun.

The Orville once again is showing what "would really happen". A society that evolves past spaceflight and sees all sorts of stuff like that would respect religion, but it would not "follow" it as systematically as we do today. It becomes things like Chakotay's spirit journey, the Klingons rituals, etc. Not something you would be ridiculed for not believing or such a permeation through all of society.

I am religious, but I'm also a being with logic, and I can't fathom our society behaving like it does today in the future.
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hpontes
Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 7:21pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

3.75/4 for me.

This was a great great episode.

I'd like to point out that I don't mind if they reuse plots from anything else, because the point of The Orville to me is to "red lamp" usual plots and show how "it would really happen". Meaning things like, Star Trek would've over dramatize the second visit, with grandiose meetings, being captured, etc etc. Whereas Kelly just plainly, "look at my hand, look at it healed, done".

That's where the Orville really excells.

Where it fails, unfortunately, is still how it's becoming a serious show, but still struggling to keep adding humor. If you took off the random humor it'd be great for me. Not the hilarious scenes like the hot potato game, or the leaving the admiral on, that's fine and organic. It's the little tid bits like the "Don't tell them I screamed". They're jarring.

I think they didn't quite realize how good of a serious show they had, and halfway between the season started realizing the humor is hard to keep up.

Also, the actress for Kelly was so good this episode. I could really feel her emotions.
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hpontes
Fri, Nov 17, 2017, 1:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Firestorm

Rating: 2.5/4

Pros: Red Lamping? (Is the term being used right?)
Cons: Confusing

I wouldn't say this was good, or bad, the whole episode felt like a state of confusion. Which made it interesting to watch, but wouldn't make me want to rewatch it like I would some other episodes.

The "state of confusion" lasted too long. To me, it would've been more interesting to see her realizing what it was near the 75% mark, and then trying to escape.

We felt a bit like Alara, like last minute revelation.

Despite that, it was a good watch for the thing The Orville does best. Highlighting the obvious things we think during these kind of episodes in other shows.

The part where the captain says, "If this is impossible, then it must be, and therefore be in our minds" is AMAZING. How many episodes of anything have we seen where no one realizes things are in their minds for way too long??? Or "Clearly this must be some new race/etc" instead of, "Are our minds affected?".

The only negative storywise for me is the punishment. Regardless of anything she basically abused every single last resort thing available... and she gets a slap on the wrist because she's sad? No. It should've been she's demoted or something. Like when Tom in Voyager was demoted for the water planet thing. You can have real punishments without firing someone.

The score was great as usual. And once again, despite the humor, and random mediocrity, The Orville is uplifted by comparing it to STD, where I actually feel like I'm watching Star Trek, even if satire (of whatever it is), whereas in STD I don't FEEL the trek.
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hpontes
Mon, Nov 6, 2017, 9:38pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Rating: 1.5/4

Pros: Good sci fi
Cons: too much subplot, too much prosthetics, too little scifi?

I'm slowly feeling like I'm watching this just because it's Star Trek, and just because it's sci fi.

Star Trek for me was about really amazing/different races, sciences, ideas, built around some sort of relatable struggle. But apparently that was the major turn off for mainstream audiences, the technobabble.

Instead we're left off with some weird BSG/New Age sci fi that is essentially little science fiction and more other things.

Discovery is to me what Stargate U was to stargate. The dorks and geeks built and kept the genre alive, and the genre is now kicking back and saying, "that's not enough".

There was some good sci fi there, the different lifeform, Saru's race, etc. But it was all submissive to other plots.

Apparently Saru's dilenma was akeen to Tuvok/Neelix's hybrid episode. Where he's allowed to make his own decisions and etc, but we're supposed to feel like it's for the greater good. Except it was so random and sudden to me, I generally really thought he was possessed and was kind of annoyed with Michael not just shooting him already and trying to talk to a possessed person.

These episodes just feel so short and like the time is spent trying to make everything visually interesting.

In a normal Trek episode we would've gotten :

- More dialogue
- A lot more scenes of Saru and how he was as a child, his life, how he's always wanted peace.
- Then we would've gotten some sort of plot about fabricated peace, and ignorance vs true peace.
- Then a good part about him being free to choose his own life.
- Then how it was a time of war and what he wanting not mattering as much.

We would've had... I don't know, thoughts. That's what Star Trek is to me.

Star Trek in the star wars world would've begun with Luke saying C3PO and R2D2 are pretty sentient, and therefore should not be sold and bought, and then an argument about what is life, what is the soul, etc etc. I love Star Wars, and when watching it I can bypass all that.

But when I watch Star Trek... I expect Star Trek.

I get there's a war, but Michael's constant reminder of what Starfleet does and what it stands for is a continual slap in the face of what we're not getting.

Even the engineer/disease/cadet scene was so weird.... A cadet just disobeyed... A chief engineer (I think that's his title) is medically disabled... But we're all just ok with breaking every rule...

Even the kiss was so forced to me....

I don't know. I've watched every Star Trek movie and series because I'm a fan. The new movies did a good job of balancing what we had, and what we have. I don't know if I would've loved Star Trek as much if DS9 and Voyager was like the movies...

STD is not really doing a good job of balancing the old and the new imo.
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hpontes
Sun, Nov 5, 2017, 5:53pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Majority Rule

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

True on the passes in order to enjoy the show. I'm just not used to giving the passes I have to give for the Orville. In fact The Orville keeps pointing out the passes I've always given Star Trek, and making fun of them!

That to me thus far is the "con" of the series. It's really trying to be a comedy/fun show, but then will have a serious episode/story. It's like it doesn't know what it is.

Part of me wishes it would stop trying to be funny, and be a legit show with allowance to be funny. If you understand what I mean.

And yeah, the show is so Star Trek that at times I have to remind myself that it's not and therefore doesn't follow the prime directive/etc.
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hpontes
Sun, Nov 5, 2017, 5:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Into the Fold

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

Yes the crash was a huge mixture of "what would really happen" and "what should happen", when it hit and split I was like, "Yep, so many crashes would really be like this" and then right away, "If crashes WERE like this there's no way they'd survive...".

@Ubik

I come from a several generation marine/sailor family, and yeah... The boom bitch was very very authentic, and yet at the same time very crude.

Star trek again, does this thing where humanity is supposed to be perfect. It was around TNG's middle where screenwriters started thinking that was boring and went with the "it's easy to be a saint in sanctuary" and started showing flaws. Voyager explored it with the other ship caught in the Delta quadrant using alien lives to "fly" faster. (Sidenote, I felt like discovery was an extended version of that episode....). Then DS9 just took it all the way and really showed this.

We seem to make the judgement that Star Trek's crew would be of a corporate setting. With a more professional atmosphere. When it's really modeled after a more military/navy kind. Either way, I myself am a doctor, and the little sprinkles of realistic exclamations are both jarring and realistic. We don't do something in a lab and say, "oh golly gee, this was terrific", there's a "YES!!!".

I like that the Orville isn't making the assumption that we've perfected ourselves by the time we have space flight. It's just an extension of our technology with humans there.
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hpontes
Sun, Nov 5, 2017, 12:47am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Majority Rule

Rating: 2.9/4

Was really fun to watch.

I guess I benefited from not watching Black Mirror, so it was new and fresh to me.

My one grip the entire episode, is I NEEDED to understand how the upvotes worked. It felt like they meant nothing. I thought at least an upvote would negate a downvote so there would be a "total" but it didn't go there.

The other Con, that needs to be just waved off to enjoy the episode is why the pilot would behave in such a way and not be super reprimanded/etc.

The picture that got the other two in trouble feels so today and our viral media.

It was a really good episode, just needed a lot of waivers for you to get on with it. Like even researching such a society could affect it, going in for retrieval and affecting their system by bringing her up, etc etc.
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hpontes
Sun, Nov 5, 2017, 12:41am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Krill

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

I really liked it too, but at the same time totally see what people meant. I mean once we had that alternate opening, it was easy to see what could've been. Specially since the voyager/DS9 openings gives me chills, the Enterprise doesn't.

But that's just a personal thing.
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hpontes
Sun, Nov 5, 2017, 12:38am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Pria

@Brontodon

Wait what? I just assumed it was him this whole time! Haha
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hpontes
Sun, Nov 5, 2017, 12:34am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Into the Fold

@SlackerInc

Oh wow. It's so funny, what we life, and how personal it can be.

I totally agree with what you said, I was SO SO (add many so's) glad to not be spoonfed things. I understand narrative, but I also really appreciate lack of narrative when it's often so blatant.

The prisoner kept her because he was lonely... To me that was meant as obvious, but with some doubts. And the doctor totally understood that and used it.

We didn't get the sob story where he realizes he's alone, the budding relationship star trek would create and then she'd feel sad about betraying. Or the "he ends up loving her so much he lets her go or helps her" etc etc.

It was simply a, "I need to go see my kids now... I've tried talking twice... that's it...".

The scene with the knife wasn't oscar worthy, but still so telling. That was her, thinking, "I will have to use this.. I'm going to have to risk my life, and if I die I will never see my kids again. I will have to willfully attack a man who has thus far, in his way, been nice to me." It's so human, so... good!

A LOT of this episode was unspoken. No ongoing rants about how he really did love his brother now that he was sick.

I'm really becoming a fan of how "adult" this show can be. The scenes are realistic as can be in how things would work. Even the boys reaction to him mimic'ing his moms voice being "creepy".

It's like I had turned off a switch in my head when watching star trek, that turned off normal present logic saying, "well its the future and theyre advanced and thats why ________". And each episode I see something that wouldn't exist in the Trek world, which causes me to thing, "wait... but that's how it _should_ happen..." and I see that switch again... and wonder whether it was a good thing or not it was off.
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hpontes
Sun, Nov 5, 2017, 12:25am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Into the Fold

Rating: 3.5/4

This is one of those show episodes that I really enjoyed, and then go online to see public opinion and am astounded.

A lot of it is due to us being hypercritical and comparing everything to everything.

The Orville has world-built a world enough for me that I don't have to compare it to anything. This is the first crash character build episode for the Orville and that's it. But if I were to compare it, this was probably the first one out of all of Trek that I can remember that was "real".

To me, the triumph The Orville has right now, is the ability to show us "how things would really happen". The captured scenario in a prior episode where the commander is bloody and beaten was such a part. That's how it would really play out, and it feels so _real_... In Star Trek they would have unkept hair and maybe a little bruised lip and that was our cue that they were captured...

This episode felt like a real pair of two kids, a real mom, a real android. This isn't an android that wants to be human, he just wants to try to understand them. Isaacs lines were so good, "Consume you", "Should I evaporate them", "Why are you still holding me?". Even the damage report gave me a "ahh, people report things, that's interesting", instead of some master computer that just tells us everything.

The Orville is humans in space, trying to be better and follow a code of ethics. Star Trek was transcended "better" humans in space, quickly realized that was boring, then DS9+ trying to backtrack and make them have human flaws, but that generally ended up creating a different image to the point that we keep having to talk about "gene's vision" against almost anything we see that isn't perfect humans.

The "we used to call it _____" "no one did that just you". The Orville keep's red lamping tropes and making fun of them. It's a very difficult thing to do and still be a serious series.

The doctor didn't try to reason and talk, and somehow etc etc with her captor. Gosh, the Orville even did an awesome awesome plot point of the doctor touching his hand and mentioning he wouldn't be alone. We all knew that was his thing, and yet The Orville didn't baby us and point it out. Star Trek would have two people there, or a huge dialog to make sure we understood he was afraid of being alone. The Doctor in the end realized it's a "I will have to do what I have to do" while holding the knife, we all knew what she was thinking. Without again having to spell it out to us.

This, to me, was a rehash of pretty much every Voyager crashed episode, and a realistic presentation of how people would really react, how things can really go wrong, and a very human show.

They didn't even do the usual, "we don't know if they really got the signal"-show up at the right minute. Immediately cut to the Orville and we see that they did. It's not a, "let's show them we can cure them, and find peace and love", it's not a "and they, stranded learn to love each other, etc", it's not a so many different cliches.

Gosh even the "I'll go at the end" was expected while not being expected. The cure part at the end was very good of the commander and a cherry on top.

I was enthralled the whole episode. I don't know if it's because I'm more willing to let go unlike most of us.

this was so fresh to me. That's not Data. That's not Crusher and her kid. That's not the Enterprise. That wasn't so many things, but it was so Star Trek.

And then there's Discovery : /
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Hpontes
Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 12:27am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

Insteresting show:

High lights: music, graphics

Low points: trigger happy, "you don't know how eeeeevil we are!!" Character.

I do have to say, I was a little disappointed when I realized this whole series was heading towards that voyager episode where they find another federation ship that was hurting beings to fly fast in space...
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Hpontes
Fri, Oct 13, 2017, 12:13am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Krill

**SPOILERS**

It's funny, I really did think, "as if the children will just forgive them and etc.." and then they go and say it.

Orville is slowly becoming that Trek in our minds (+ some weird humor here and there), like all of the, "hmm would that really work that way? Wouldn't it_____".

In all honest The Orville could be amazing and stand on its own next to Star Trek if it would slow down on the unnecessary humor. I don't mind the jokes, but it hurts suspension of belief when it randomly becomes a galaxy quest type of show for a few moments.

The eating moment was funny, didn't love it, but it felt real. The Orville keeps having these moments where it point out to the watcher the absurdity of the previous levity.

I mean, he killed her brother, then joked around and pretend to know him. Then killed all her friends...

Once again the "torture" and "blood" on the Orville is waaaay more realistic than Star Trek without being gratuitous.

Some convenient deus ex but Star Trek pulled that bs on us all the time anyways.

I'd give this episode a 2.5/4.

*SPOILER FREE*

Once again The Orville really struggles to walk the line between satire and a seriously thought opening Star Trek series.

It's as if Seth wanted a really funny comedy show, and slowly began to actually want it to mean something, so we get jolting hiccups of self-aware "comedy" sprinkled throughout a pretty good Star Trek episode.

I have come to the sad realization, that even with the weird humor, I'm enjoying this a lot more than Battlestar: Discovery... which I actually am not minding too much.

But I find mindself constantly editing 30+ years of world building and lore in order to accept that anything that happens in STD is some change in the timeline.
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hpontes
Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 3:03am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: If the Stars Should Appear

I'm quite surprised at all the hate.

I left this episode with a horrible realization. I'm enjoying The Orville a LOT more than Star Trek: Discovery.

It's unfair to judge a series entirely by comparing, but let's see, what do we know about character building, world building and etc after 3 episodes of each?

STD (wow... the horrible moment I also realize Discovery's acronym is STD....):
**SPOILERS** Klingons bad, war happened, commander mutinied, new captain angry, Klingon messiah, Warp/teleport hybrid.

Orville: New races, gender-weird races and their politics, we've touched on gender issues, race issues, feminism, religion and dogma... in 3 episodes The Orville has at least touched pretty much all the untouchables.

They're not masterpieces really, but I leave the Orville feeling like I've just watched a Star Trek episode. I leave STD (omg really... STD... wow...) with more of a "I guess ____ is different too in this reality... Oh I guess maybe _____ changed too because of this timeline...". With STD I'm essentially constantly having to throw away all I've ever learned from 4 series, with multiple viewings, and having to suspend my belief to the point that STD is more like some sort of Reverse Reality where we pick out the "wrong" things.

STD is going full on battlestar/wars, very little social commentary, and I'm really not liking that they're essentially building up to us not liking the captain... I mean essentially it's looking like Michael will have to "mutiny", but then realize she shouldn't mutiny and instead counsel... like yeah...

The humor in Orville is awesome, and pushing it sometimes. Most of the humor in The Orville are like mental "yes! that's really what would happen" where Star Trek was way too inhuman sometimes. Like all those times they tried other peoples foods, the awkward moments. When you yell out happy that you just did something awesome then realize that's not the right time/place...

And the violence was jarringly real... How many times did a Star Trek person get kidnapped, and you can tell they were roughed up because their hair was a mess... Seeing the commander hit in The Orville I instantly had a moment of, "Oh wow... they're right... THIS is what those kidnapping/captured scenes would really be like....". Or when they put on a random cartoon/show, whereas Star Trek would put on some classics/etc like only those would ever survive, instead of our crap too. Or when in this episode she's shot, and really bloody/pale with actual surgical tools.

Many of the humor moments are really just nods to us in a "you know... this is what us humans would really do...", because our tech does evolve much faster than our social morality/personality.

This felt like a Voyager episode. A good voyager episode.

I give it a 3.5/5
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