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William D Wehrs
Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 6:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@WolfStar. Really like that analogy between Kira and Georgiou. That really puts in concrete terms why the character is so problematic. What's all the more frustrating is there is room for depth there. For example, why not play up how mirror Georgiou is hurt she can't have a relationship with Burnham akin to the one she had in the mirror universe. This would make her more relatable. But nope, let's just have her hiss like a snake that won't be eye rollingly stupid at all.
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William D Wehrs
Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 6:20pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

"Look, Discovery is an action show. It's not about ideas. It's hectic. It's intense." Personally, I find those things antithetical. Something can't be intense if it's not about anything. Something could be shot by Alfred Hitchcock, and it wouldn't matter if I don't give a damn about the characters or the ideas on screen, and unfortunately that's where Discovery falls into. Why should I care about Tilly and May? There's been zero time establishing a friendship. Why should I care about Stamets and Culber? They had one scene brushing teeth together. Hardly the stuff of legend. Having said all that if people want to enjoy something for being a dumb action show, then good for you. I'm happy for you, even if I personally don't understand it.
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William D Wehrs
Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 11:10pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@Leif.

My apologies. I was under the impression people came here either after seeing the episode or not caring about spoilers. In the future, I will endeavor to keep my comments spoiler free.
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William D Wehrs
Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 10:01pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

I confess this episode broke me. Never a moment to build character, just problem, solution, problem, solution. Over and over. The way they Culbert was brought back to life was incredibly laughable. What? Stamets kissed him and then brought him into the nebula with him. Give me a break. And then just when I thought they might do something daring and actually leave him, nope another solution. Add melodramatic acting and direction, the opening had me rolling, and this episode became one of my least favorite Trek episodes I've ever seen.
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William D Wehrs
Sun, Feb 3, 2019, 11:10am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

@Dom
"The Wrath of Khan works as Star Trek to me because in TOS Kirk did give Khan a chance for a fresh start, but Khan wasted it and instead died consumed with hatred." Plus, even after all Khan has done, Kirk is still trying to help. After disabling the ship, he has Uhura reach out to Khan to alert him that he's going to be borded. Kirk very easily could have just blown up the ship at that point, yet he doesn't.

"Once we go down the road of treating our ideological opponents as "things" rather than "people" - no matter how distasteful their views - it's impossible to believe in the possibility of their redemption." And the most recent episode of Discovery continues that theme with the person opposing L'Rell being given as much characterization as an Uruk-Hai would get. This is such a missed opportunity, as there was plenty of room for a grey character here. Have someone who truly loves his people and wants the Klingon empire to be strong. Thus, he doesn't trust this outsider who took over with the threat of a bomb.
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William D Wehrs
Sat, Feb 2, 2019, 9:53pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

@Tim C.
Fair I suppose though I would hope people wouldn't call something same without actually watching the shows. And to be clear, nothing would make me happier than seeing highly diverse good Trek shows. For me Trek can be anything, as long as the writing is good. After all, two of the best TOS episodes, The Doomsday Machine and The Trouble with Tribbles, are about as different as can be.
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William D Wehrs
Sat, Feb 2, 2019, 10:57am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

@Wolfstar

Thank you! I am very liberal and a huge feminist, who hates TLJ and Discovery. It bothers me considerably that there is a prevailing attitude if one dislikes those things, then one must be a misogynistic neo-nazi. We must not let extremists on either side drive the discourse on things like Star Trek or Star Wars. As Picard once said "When one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable, like... like old leather. And finally... becomes so familiar that one can't ever remember feeling any other way." Let's not let that happen.
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William D Wehrs
Sat, Feb 2, 2019, 8:19am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

" if they hadn't felt in so many ways like the same show?" @TimC Wait are you saying that Voyager and DS9 felt like the same show? I have to respectfully disagree there. DS9 was had vastly different characters than Voyagers, and vastly different plots as well.
@Stargazer "This used to be a pretty good community in the past. It's a shame that it's been hijacked by people pissing all over a great, modern show because it's not white enough, not male enough and not slow enough for them, as it was in 1986."
Who on this forum has criticized this show for those reasons? I haven't seen any complaints in regards to the first two categories, and since when has wanting the show to take its time and invest in characters been a bad thing?

"Trek had always lots of violence. Singling this show out, that is no more or less violent than pretty much any other show on TV right now, is hypocritical." See my prior points about why this violence feels different.

"Attacking storylines that haven't been completed is hypocritical. Modern storytelling is serialized. Do you also critizise War & Peace because you dislike page 28?"
Well, true, but we have to evaluate the storylines in some way, or would you suggest we just reserve our judgment until the show wraps up in its entirity whenever that might be? Incidentally, I do somewhat agree with you which is why I think it would be a smart business decision of Discovery to release its season all at once, so that people can discuss the show with virture of having seen the whole season.

"It's also interesting how most of the complaints about actors or characters (Burnham is wooden, Tilly is annoying, Georgiou doesn't fit into Trek, Amanda seems too young) focusses on women and women of color. And spare me your explanations, because nobody believes in your lies."
Well I know you said you didn't want an explanation, but I would argue that each of those characters is somewhat problematic and to just accept them based on the virute of their sex would also be sexist. Also, I know a lot of fans wanted a spinoff with Georgiou from the normal universe, only to be disappointed they went with the mirror universe character who is just evil. Doesn't that suggest an interest in character, rather than blanket sexism?

"This is the most succesful relaunch of Star Trek since TNG: Look at the Rotten Tomatos critics ratings. The overwhelming majority loves this show. It's a shame that we can't discuss it here because this website has been taken over by the 2 or 3 percent of haters who cannot get over the fact that Trek does not cater exclusively to them anymore. Them and their outdated beliefs in what TV should be like." And good for the people who like it. I urge them to come here to share why. Different opinions is good.

"It's pathetic." I would respectfully disagree. Critiquing a show and expressing one's opinion on something is perfectly healthy as long as there are not undue attacks on others.
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William D Wehrs
Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 8:48pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

@Hank and @Tim C. I see where both of you are coming from. It's true that Trek has many different variations and to say that something has to be a certain way to be Star Trek is problematic. At the same time, it is true Discovery is stooping to a more sensationalistic level of violence than Trek has ever seen. Ultimately, however, I think the biggest problem isn't the violence, it's the feeling by many that the violence is symptomatic of a much bigger problem, that being Discovery is so concerned with flash and noise, or in this case gore, that it is losing interest in characters. For example, how much more interesting would it have been if we'd seen L'Rell and Voq/Tyler come up with a cunning strategy to defeat the baby captors than just stabbing them. The show is so concerned with being "cool" that it is losing track of being smart. Now, having said all of of that, I don't think Discovery is unique in this regard, but rather a symptom of a broader trend that dates back to Voyager which began to resolve its plots with action an inordinate amount of by time. Then, we got the the reboot trilogy, all of which were much more action heavy than intellect heavy. In my opinion, it's unfortunate that that's the direction Trek is heading, but Discovery is not the first Trek to do this.
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William D Wehrs
Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 6:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: A Happy Refrain

The Orville continues to deliver on what Discovery cannot: genuine interest in its characters. A sweet episode that is content to just let people be people, an increasing rarity in our media. Who would've guessed that the creator of Family Guy would create one of the warmest good spirited tv shows on television?
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William D Wehrs
Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 4:13pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

@Chrome I would argue it was earned somewhat, as it was the main villain of the show and had caused a lot of damage. That's quite different from seeing random characters get blown into bloody bits for no discernible reason. Now to be fair, Discovery is not the only Trek property that I felt went over the line. The scene in First Contact where the Borg Queen loses her skin was even more distasteful.
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William D Wehrs
Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 3:48pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

@Hank. Yep. For all the talk of how Discovery is a new form of Trek storytelling since it is more serialized than any before, the show is horrible at actually exploring consequences of things. For example, during this whole episode of Klingon politics, no one mentions the huge literal bomb underneath the planet's core.
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William D Wehrs
Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 3:30pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

For me, when it comes to violence it's a question of whether it's earned. For example, siege of ARR-588 is a brutal war story,so the violence felt earned. For Discovery, its too often like let's have blood spurts because we can rather than it being in service of the story.
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William D Wehrs
Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:32pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

One word is defining my attitude towards this season: apathy. The show still seems to have no real interest in its characters. Voq/Tyler finding out he has a baby should be a BIG deal, not something brushed through in a scene. For god's sake, why doesn't this show understand the concept of pacing or plotting. You can't have a jampacked Klingon political plot, a Burnham/mom plot, AND a Tilly plot all in one episode. None of the plot lines have time to breathe, and thus just leave one uninterested in any of them. It's made all the more frustrating because each of these ideas have potential on their own. For example, why are the Klingons frustrated with L'Rell? If the show had time to breathe, we could have actually found out beyond the incredibly simplistic "they're evil" or whatever.

Another huge problem was the direction. For god's sake I felt as if I was watching Battlefield Earth with all the wonky angles going on. Also, could the production crew PLEASE invest in a tripod. I don't like feeling sea sick all the time. Overall, yet another disappointing misfire for a show that keeps stumbling with no real sense of direction.
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William D Wehrs
Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 1:25am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Brother

Let's start with the positive shall we? The visuals are excellent and the music is quite nice. Especially the working in of the two musical themes.

Ok, now that that's over with, let's look at the missteps. What was the point of the character, Connelley who was incredibly obnoxious. Was he just there to die? That's just mean spirited writing. There is also an abundance of jokes, most of which for me at least don't land at all. There is also the ludicrous roll-call scene which the writers clearly thought helped serve to "flesh out" the bridge crew. It doesn't though. We still don't know anything about these people. Also, Discovery had better provide a good reason why Spock is such a petulant brat from the very beginning towards Burnham. Overall, I can see this show is trying to rectify its prior mistakes, but it still has a long way to go.
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William D Wehrs
Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 12:21am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Nothing Left on Earth Excepting Fishes

Loved this episode with my one quibble being that we could have used a little more time with Lt. Tyler and her romance with Mercer. Nevertheless, teally appreciated the time devoted to humanizing the enemy in a way the first season of Discovery never really did. This was the Orville at its best, and I really hope the ratings improve.
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William D Wehrs
Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 9:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

@SlackerInc. I believe Kelly said something along the lines "God, this ship is gross."
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William D Wehrs
Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 9:22pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

For about the first half I was somewhat worried as the pace was rather slow, but then I was quite impressed by the second half. I felt they handled the problem of porn addition quite maturely and I was especially impressed by the connection to a prior episode. The porn virus was a perfect touch for the Orville, as little things like this really help set it apart from Trek. Finally, I was quite impressed that the Orville didn't end up saving everyone. I wasn't expecting that, and it was actually quite moving. All around, this show continues to impress and I hope it continues to do well.
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