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WTBA
Mon, Feb 5, 2018, 2:28am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

@JP Saru said Ash was limited to certain areas and they even put the equivalent of an ankle bracelet on his wrist. As for secret messages, he is likely locked out of the comms and any codes he had as security chief are terminated.
Sure, he is freer than maybe he should have been, but it wasn't total freedom. Also, presumably this Dr. Pollard (was that the woman Saru talked to about Ash's condition?) signed off on it.
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WTBA
Sun, Feb 4, 2018, 11:14pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

Really enjoyed this one, but a slightly lower score (if I were to give one) than the last three.

That Ash/Michael scene just made the episode screech to a halt. SOOO boring and overlong. Glad the episode was nearly 50 minutes, but I'd have taken a couple minutes out of that scene.

Yeoh is knocking it out of the park. Great scenes with Michael, Cornwell, and Sarek.

Loved the Ash in the mess hall scene. Tilly showing a lot of compassion (very Star Trek), and others quick to follow her lead.

Cornwell is still a little dry for me. If she wasn't this way before the nine months passed, I could contribute it to how rough the war has been, but instead the actor seems to just be very stilted. I have read she is good in other stuff. Not sure if it is the writing here.

Hard to see how we wrap up the war in just another 50ish minutes (any chance it is an extended finale a la Doctor Who?).
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WTBA
Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 7:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

On Burnham saving MGeorgiou: It was clearly an emotional, impulsive decision. She didn't want to watch her die "again."

For those who decry this move because MG is a terrible person, are you the same ones that decried Lorca leaving Mudd in the Klingon prison?

Is Mudd worth saving despite his questionable ethics simply because he is a Fed citizen but MG is not because she is a Terran?

Mudd was not left to certain death (esp. considering he got free soon after), but MG was as good as dead.

Isn't the whole point of Burnham's "I'm not going to kill you" to Lorca about the Federation being more ethical than that?

Isn't the ethics of the situation independent of consequences after? MG might be jailed or kept under lockdown in the PU, but it doesn't really matter to the decision to save her.

In the moment, was Burnham supposed to let her die?
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WTBA
Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 12:05am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

Absolutely thrilling. Edge of your seat stuff. Also the first episode that nearly brought me to tears. Great stuff.

Seems like they are in for a rude awakening back in the PU. Not just the nine months, but Starfleet (Cornwall/Sarek and others from the preview clip) seem paranoid and pissed. Maybe they figured out about Lorca?

OF COURSE: It probably doesn't help that the ship still says ISS DISCOVERY on it... (gonna need to undone that paint job)
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WTBA
Wed, Jan 24, 2018, 10:52am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

This may have been addressed upthread, so apologies if so.

I realized something rewatching the scene with the Stametses. When the camera zooms in on the screen showing “ISS Charon,” rather than being about the Stametses switching places, which they did not, I think the emphasis is meant to show that MU Stamets isn’t on MU Discovery, but rather on the palace ship.

Given we have not seen MU Discovery, we might wonder why it must look identical to the revised PU Discovery (as we know the ruse of changing unis and the ship lettering, etc. seemed to work).

If the spore tech is not functional (as MU Stamets got caught in the network – we don’t know the whole story yet), but is on the Charon, why does the MU Discovery look like the PU Discovery, as it was built for the spore tech? Is there a MU Glenn too?
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WTBA
Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 8:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

oh, I also liked the Stamets stuff. Culber wasn't probably necessary, though it was a decent way to get PU Stamets to listen/wake up. Have we seen the last of MU Stamets? I am guessing not...
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WTBA
Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 8:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

Stellar episode again. MU is brutal as fuck. Yeoh was intense.

A little disappointed MU Lorca is confirmed. Guess that means he is out for Season 2. The reveal was really well done though. (He let that guy die!) Note that when he said "someone better came along" he meant MU Burnham (and maybe to a small degree PU Burnham, depending on his timeline between Buran and PU Discovery).

Will we find out how he got to the PU?

The Lorca reveal does bring me to my first bigger criticism so far. With both the Lorca and Voq/Ash reveals, DSC has undercut an otherwise interesting character. Ash had PTSD (and I guess Voq as Ash did too), but the reveal sort of guts that (no pun intended). Then, Lorca seems to be a damaged soul (partly due to losing the Buran), and now that he is officially a MU asshole, his seeming growth and struggle has all just been a long con (though he probably does regret losing the Buran - or does he?). I am enjoying what they did do, but I just wanted to point this issue out.

I enjoyed Tilly (she didn't do much this time). Saru was very good (both overall and especially in the L'Rell scenes).

Also a shame it was only 37 minutes. Shortest episode yet. Only THREE left...
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WTBA
Sun, Jan 21, 2018, 12:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Wolf Inside

I really don't understand the confusion about Discovery picking up Tyler. Burnham's earlier conversation with Tilly/Prime Saru clearly showed she had a communication line open with them. Furthermore, Lorca told the Discovery to say close (to the Shenzhou) before he and Burnham parted in the previous episode.

Sure, they could have showed Burnham calling Prime Saru back and hatching the plan, but that would have completely killed the drama of the scene of Tyler being beamed off and "saved."
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WTBA
Tue, Jan 16, 2018, 2:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Wolf Inside

@Kuebel Tyler/Voq said "she should have let me die" because it would have been an honorable death (versus being imprisoned).

A bit about the episode and the show as a whole:

I thought the episode was great (as was Despite Yourself). I was on the edge of my seat for most of it (save for the beginning monologue and Tyler/Burnham scene).

I enjoyed Tilly trying to science Stamets back to reality. Her trying to do so was no crazier than every time any main cast member on any Trek risked their life or others on some crazy scheme to solve the problem of the week. So she is a cadet? So what? She is obviously trained in science and understood the spores better than most. There probably should have been medical staff on hand, but Saru letting her try was not an issue for me.

I never thought Burnham/Ash had much chemistry, so I don't care that that relationship is over. I thought SMG played the betrayal well and Latif was masterful as Voq began to break through. When he went into Klingon mode, I had goosebumps!

I think most people are too harsh on Burnham. Aside from the mutiny (a mark on her record for sure), she hasn't really done anything particularly immoral (and the state of the mutiny is debatable to a degree - probably more arrogant or misguided than immoral). Her killing Connor in the MU was pure self-defense, so critics that point to that didn't seem to pay proper attention to that scene or its context.

Lorca seems to be the biggest (Tyler/Voq murder aside) problem morally. I am not sure whether his win-at-all-costs is purely because he lost the Buran or whether he in part lost it because of that attitude in the first place (he did say he destroyed it to spare his crew - ?!). I am not on the Lorca is really a MU guy train, and I don't really want that to be the case. It would ruin his development, unless they pull it off in a heretofore unseen way. I like his redemption arc, and I think that there is more to the Buran story we haven't learned yet.

Overall stuff:

I love this show. I look forward to it more than most of the shows I watch. I really do not understand most of the criticism from people here and on other Trek boards.

I am not here to tell others to enjoy the show. Everyone likes different things. For those with continuity (mostly visual) or serialization/theme issues or other gripes, I am sorry the show isn't what you wanted or thought it would/could/should be.

I enjoy the serial nature (my favorite Trek is DS9, though I like most of Trek), and it has been great to see what Trek can be in that format.

I don't find the writing/dialogue to be poor (especially after the first couple episodes, which were the weakest in that regard). I like the characters just fine. Some more than others, but I don't dislike anyone.

I find it sort of humorous that some of the same people who cry foul that the so-called twists are too "shocking" also claim that the same twists are "predictable." Can you be shocked by predictable things? Can I be shocked the sun came up today? I guess if you think the writers think they are being shocking, then they might fall short...

The Ash/Voq reveal was very well done, but unfortunately, it was discussed so heavily here and other Trek places, it was never going to be what they hoped. It was hindered by Latif being first announced as playing a Klingon, which they retracted. The fictional actor listed as playing Voq also hurt things. I also think the weekly release format leaves too much time in this current internet/social media culture to really lay groundwork for longer plots/reveals. Everyone is discussing theories to death.

If DSC had been released all at once, I would have binged it in a couple of days and only read boards after I was done. I would have likely never entertained the notion that Voq was Ash, because I would never have dug into IMDB or fan theories. I wouldn't have had enough time to think about who the Emperor might be or whether characters might be MU from the start or anything else.

I have loved waiting for each new episode, but my thirst for reading about the episodes and what people are saying has probably made the experience less good (or as least very different).

We will never know, I guess. I suppose the cynical answer to why it is weekly is so CBSAA can keep folks on the hook longer. For shows like House of Cards, I usually only get Netflix for the month it comes out, binge it and then cancel. I would have done the same with CBSAA, and I will most certainly drop it after the DSC season ends.
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WTBA
Wed, Dec 6, 2017, 3:08am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Firestorm

Apologies if I repeat anything said already, as I only skimmed the comments because there are so many.

This is only the third (fourth?) Orville that I have seen. My uncle has been watching from the beginning, and I have seen several eps with him (such as the social media allegory one).

I was generally pleased with this one. Very much in the Trekkian fashion (yes, the Orville isnt Trek, but the similarities are a good way to view and analyze it). It reminded me of TNG's "Clues" or "Remember Me" and Voyager's "Latent Image," in that I spent most of the episode trying to unravel just what the hell was going on.

Unfortunately, despite being on the edge of my seat for 95% of the episode, it sort of falls flat once all the cards are on the table. Even as it became disappointing clearer what was going on, I was still eager for the exact how it was going on.

Problem #1: Once Penny Johnson shot the nurse, it was clear that one of two things was true. Either a) she was possessed or b) Alara was still in the holodeck or hallucinating or dreaming or some other reset button outcome.

Problem #2: Once Malloy was eaten, it was pretty much obviously option b. They were smart not to let Grayson not fall into that abyss earlier in the episode. Sure, they could have gone the losing folks one by one route, but that would have given any the hey-a-reset-button-is-coming much earlier, so I credit them with not doing an even poorer job of maintaining the fuller mystery.

Frankly, they just gave it away too early. Maybe Malloy should have been merely dragged off or injured and at least taken to sickbay (even if critically injured). Unfortunately, his being swallowed made it clear the reset button was coming.

The reveal that Alara was in fact in the holodeck still (and the others were watching) was interesting. However, the reveal that she locked herself into the program (despite being memory wiped at some point?), was not as palatable as had she been assigned to the program to retrain her or to deal with the grief or something. It just felt tacked onto what was otherwise an intriguing premise.

As for the humor, I laughed multiple times, and I felt this episode did not derail itself to squeeze in one-liners as much as the pilot or the other eps I saw (like the social media one).

One other thing: as I had not been keeping up with the show, Alara's freak out over the death of the guy at the beginning really threw me. Sure it was under her watch and she might feel responsible, but surely they have lost multiple people on the show (all the Trek shows lost crewmen (redshirts and unnamed mostly) at a pretty steady rate). I read after, however, that this was the first crew death for the ship. This also lends context to Mercer's struggling with the condelence letter (which also threw me). Of course, the Trek shows probably didn't show enough of (captains especially) grieving over causalities, save for the DS9 Dominion War stuff, and that was mostly only when the Feds were losing badly and war fatigue had set in.

So, all in all, the episode was worth a 3 out of 4. Not sure how watchable it is once the twist is known (though few twists eps of TV are ever the same after the initial viewing). I was really invested pretty much throughout.
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WTBA
Fri, Nov 10, 2017, 10:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

@Jammer

You questioned why Kol was on the Sarcophagus ship. Did he not steal it from Voq several episodes ago? After they got the Shenzou part...Where else has he been? Maybe I missed something.
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WTBA
Tue, Nov 7, 2017, 2:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Re: Turler (Burner...whatever)

It is less that it is not believable or that it is forced. They just seem to have ZERO chemistry. It is not just solemn awkwardness (as a PTSD/former POW and a Vulcan-raised human). It has pseudo-relationship beats, but none of the pathos or feeling. I'd feel more if we saw them having a date, rather than blandly being a couple on an away mission (it's no "Change of Heart" for example).

At least with say Kira/Odo, you bought his feelings for her, and they had known each other for YEARS.
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WTBA
Tue, Nov 7, 2017, 10:53am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Interesting take from Ex Astris: "Tyler and Burnham are the perhaps most believable lovers in the history of Star Trek. The chemistry between them is wonderful; the romance doesn't feel contrived at all."

Unless he means it sarcastically (which he doesn't seem to imply elsewhere), it is a wonder he is watching the same show.
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WTBA
Mon, Nov 6, 2017, 1:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Despite enjoying it more than now, this was easily the least engaging episode for me so far.

Too much happening. Everything was rushed and truncated.

Likes:

- Burnham is expecting prison after the war and sees Disco as a temporary assignment.

- Opening battle was very well done. Lorca tried so hard to save the other ship.

- L'Rell has some sort of plan (who knows what?). Classic House of Mokai.

Dislikes:

- Burler (Tyham?) does nothing for me. I was afraid they were going to bang in the tent. Glad they didn't.

- Saru filled the all-too-common role of being influenced by the aliens of the week (but yes, they will be back it seems). The prey stuff with him is very weak to start, and this fit in with it, I guess, but it just isn't great characterization...yet.

Other:

- Stamets part did a lot in only a few minutes, but why didn't we see him "flying" the ship sooner? Will Tilly tell Burnham about Stamets' issues?
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WTBA
Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 11:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Lethe

@Jammer I too was surprised we didn't get some acknowledgement of Lorca finding out the tardigrade had been freed. But honestly, the more I pondered it, it wasn't needed.

When everyone is there with Stamets after the jump, he acknowledges ("once you get used to the needles") that he is now the navigator. For Lorca's bit, the ship can still jump, so no harm no foul.

Presumably the consequences of Stamets being the navigator will be borne out beyond him acting high.
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WTBA
Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 12:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Lethe

@Jammer I have had zero issues with CBSAA, and I have watched all but one episode just after it is first released.

I was really surprised to see the issues with CBSAA streaming hiccups. I have seen numerous streaming complaints in different Trek places, so it is definitely a widespread issue. I suppose I am due to run into some problems myself eventually.

I have heard of difficulties on the CBSAA App. I use my laptop for streaming it via the CBSAA website, so maybe that is part of my escaping the issues.

Either way, I hate to hear others are having issues accessing a PAY service, and this was one of the pitfalls of making the series AA only (rather than broadcast).
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:51pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Lethe

@Michael

"It makes sense for Enterprise to come immediately to her mind if her 'brother' Spock is serving there."

At first blush, I question whether she would even know that. She doesn't seem close to Spock and her and Sarek are sort of distant too. How well know are non-captains on various starships?

Of course, in 2017, she would just creep his Facebook to find out his business. No reason she couldn't look him up in a database or something for funsies.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Lethe

This show is really finding itself. Loved nearly every minute. I like the more episodic feel of the last two eps. Larger stories are moving, but the in-episode machinations and character moments are getting strong.

Some thoughts:

- Lorca is so damn fascinating. It seemed Kat (the Admiral) was going to drop some Buran exposition, but all we got was Gabe beating the psych evals. I still there is more to the "I killed my crew" story. I want more details (like how he escaped).

- More Lorca: he didn't save Sarek for Sarek but sort of FOR Michael. He plays it as loyalty to an individual he sees as useful, but there were moments he seemed genuinely concerned for her (see his words to Ash before the shuttle leaves). Like Kat sort of said, we can't tell if it is REALLY him. Is he a magnificent bastard or the ultimate user? Is he this way because of PTSD/Buran or was he always like this? How does a phaser in bed help you get over the fact you sacrificed your former crew? Again, I want more backstory.

- Tilly was by far the least annoying and forced she's ever been. She is endearing and her burgeoning friendship with Michael seems good for both of them. "Green juice. Extra Green." HAHA

- Burnham was the most relatable she's been so far. Lots of moments of humanity, as opposed to woodenness (which I guess is her version of Vulcan imitation).

- Ash was fine. Not enough info to decide either way on the big theory. The last scene wants to push us toward some Burash (Turnham?) vibes. That's fine, I guess. If the big theory is true, then it has a Dukat/Winn feel (though maybe not as purposefully vile).

- As for Kat, her acting is sort of meh. Her outburst after the bed/gun incident was very poorly realized. I like her role in the show, but I wish she was better. Tough break getting kidnapped (lucky for Sarek he was attacked earlier). I did not see the trap coming (maybe I/they/Sarek should have?).

- Sarek was very good. Interesting backstory vis a vis he and Burnham. I really like James Frain in the role. Exciting to she Amanda played by Mia Kirshner! Haven't seen her in anything for over a decade, but was always fond. Vulcan looked amazing (as did the Nebula - aka the disco rave dance party Nebula).

- Very little of Doctor. Why is he always treating everyone? Where is the CMO?

- Stamets acting high/mellow was funny but was unneeded in this episode. Nothing else was done with it. On that note, was he used to jump to the Nebula? Apparently, they weren't too worried after he nearly died last time? (He did say, "once you get used to the needles" or some such.) That felt glossed over, like they cut a Stamets scene. Next week looks Stamets/time jump/loop focused, so hopefully that thread can move some.

- Crew is becoming teamy and closer. Other than Ash and Burnham, weren't the rest all on Discovery all this time? Why haven't others risen to important ship positions or made friends with Stamets/Tilly/etc or earned some of Lorca/Saru's confidence? I guess it is just part of Michael's plot contribution. Everyone was just lost/uninteresting before she showed up. I just accept that as part of the plot contrivance, but on the heels of the Shenzhou crew (esp. Saru/Michael) seeming like near-strangers after 7(!) years, it feel like Disco crew is socializing at a lightning pace.

- Easter egg: Nice to see Connies mentioned (not sure if Burnham had to mention the Enterprise - there are others, right?).

- Hologram battle training: A little too holodecky, but I read elsewhere that TAS played with the idea of holodecks (or similiar tech) this early in the timeline. I can buy the notion that the holograms are not up to future TNG/DS9/VOY level of sophistication.

Probably forgot some stuff. Eager for others' (and Jammer's) thoughts.
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WTBA
Thu, Oct 19, 2017, 4:02am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

Having read up more on the Ash = Voq stuff, it is pretty damning (some of the real-world evidence). But, what about how it would work in universe?

If Ash is Voq, it sure seems like he was mindwiped and given this Tyler persona (presumably based on an actual either former prisoner or just death at the BotBS). That anger when he was punching her was very visceral. If he isn't aware he is formerly Voq, then In this case, giving up everything for Voq was giving up everything Voq. How then will he be useful as the mindwiped former Voq? Maybe they (LRell and co.) will retrieve him later? Maybe he will be activated (or is subtly programmed) somehow?
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WTBA
Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 6:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@Yanks I watched the first and most recent After Treks. It is really shoddy. The interviews add nothing and it feels so forced and superficial. The host is so annoying. (Who is this guy anyway?) I am not a Walking Dead viewer, so I don't know if Talking Dead (which is what AT obviously is trying to be) is actually any good. Who asked for aftershows in the first place?
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WTBA
Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 5:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@Omicron "So this is the Mudd episode, eh?"

Not sure if you meant THE episode as in the ONE episode. It certainly seems like Mudd was set up to come back. I have heard as few as 2 eps total and possibly many more. How will he escape though? Time will tell, I guess.
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WTBA
Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 3:18am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@Brian "We have a gay couple just copy-pasted into the show...It feels like it was forced into the show by some committee."

Every pre-existing couple in any media is copy-pasted/forced under this definition. Your "challenge to writing romance" argument might work if it wasn't couched in a larger bullshit argument.

The previous 100% of pre-existing couples on Star Trek were Straight. Why wasn't it a problem for them? Why aren't they forced by a committee?

If anything, the inclusion of a gay relationship in this manner is more normalizing and accepting. Why do the writers have to justify a gay relationship by bringing you along slowly?

This is the same bullshit argument against any diversity in casting/characters. Oh, Michael is a black woman, must be copy-pasted/forced. Phillipa was Asian, must be copy-pasted/forced. Lorca is a white man...no copy pasting there. Nothing forced about a white male captain.

"Honestly as a gay man, I would think you'd be offended by their portrayal."

Give me a fucking break...own your prejudice. You couldn't sound more ignorant if you tried.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 11:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@snitch "I am surprised some Americans are uncomfortable with cussing or nudity."

For the record, I am uncomfortable with neither. America has nothing to do with it.

The "fucks" felt gratuitous because we have hundred of hours of Starfleet crews interacting (many in life and death scenarios) and no one ever said "fuck." Leaving out the movies (and Picard's French muttering), no one ever said "shit" either.I curse more in an afternoon than Star Trek ever has. It just feels weird so far. As time goes on, it won't. But right now, noncursing Starfleet is ahead 4000 hours (or whatever) to 5.

That being said, this usage was more organic than most (an excited utterance).

I have seen the argument elsewhere that cursing (and potential nudity - since you brought it up) makes it a show people cannot watch with their kids. I don't really but that words themselves are "bad" (aside from slurs), but that doesn't mean there are no consequences for using them in the wrong place (school, job interview, court, etc.).

I do, however, not want to alienate part of the audience, because the use of unnecessary f-bombs turns them away.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 9:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

also @startrekwatcher

"The whole subplot in the Klingon ship was utter filler. Nothing happened. No plot development, no adding to the arc. "

We got some of Lorca's backstory. We added Ash Tyler. We met Harry Mudd. We saw L'Rell has a ship now. We didn't see Voq. (And without the need to go after Lorca, the tardigrade/Saru plots don't move in the same ways.)

This is one of the issues with the serialization. All these pieces add to the overall framework, but may be largely unsatisfying until they pay off.

I rather enjoy this change (toward serialization). It is more DS9 than Voyager. I like things to pay off and have many layers. Voyager was the king (queen?) of leaving plots unreturned to.

I understand that some viewers do not enjoy this change. They are not wrong to not enjoy it. To each his own. I, for my two cents, enjoy it.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 9:06pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@startrekwatcher

" The characters have no chemistry, they barely interact, they’re insufferable people."

I really thought they worked well together this episode. Stamets, the Doc, Michael, and Tilly.
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