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Picard Maneuver
Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 1:10am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Ship in a Bottle

Much of Star Trek's best is when it's revisiting previous material. There are this episode, Wrath of Khan, and Best of Both Worlds, for example. Immediately figuring out that Moriarty devised a way to trap the crew in a simulation really didn't hamper my enjoyment. It helped that the theme of the episode was Sherlock Holmes to push the idea of deductive reasoning. The "Ship in a Bottle" name was also a giveaway. They had to still be in the holodeck. It was basically the only explanation. It was clever that the "confidence boosters", namely Crusher and LaForge, were fake. I was disappointed that Data was slow to figure it out. It really should have been a fake Data and he should have been found out due to his positronic system giving him unique behaviors that the ship's computer would struggle to replicate. Them splitting up and having unfettered access to the entire ship from the small holodeck room is a bit of a plot hole.

I wonder what happened to Moriarty's data cube when Troi crashed the Enterprise.

I like how Geordi almost literally goes to cry in the corner when he finds out he isn't real.

It would have been funny if Marina Sirtis were replaced with Fran Drescher in this episode as one of the holodeck glitches.
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Dave in MN
Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 12:01am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Yesterday's Enterprise

I always assumed 1701-D had depleted their photon torpedoes.
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Marvin
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 8:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Tim C

I hear ya and Jammer on the story vs. plot. However, *if* this is the story of Picard (series name notwithstanding), then that story was essentially told in the first episode, Picard's doctor's scene in the 2nd episode, and the last episode. And if you really look at it, it was more likely the first half of the first episode and the last 20 minutes of the last episode.

What frustrates me and a lot of people on the plot was that everything in between the first and last episodes could be eliminated and you would still have Picard's story. That's 9+ hours of extremely poor writing and plot threads.

Even with Picard's story, the choice of putting to bed Data's story was totally unnecessary. That would require a viewer to rewatch Nemesis, which I thought was a poor movie. Not sure why Nemesis was chosen as a foundation for the first season of PIC. As others have said, Geordi's relationship with Data was much stronger, as was Riker's to Picard's. Hell, Crusher and Q had stronger relationships with Picard.
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Mertov
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 5:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

"I can see from your previous comments that you are a simple person who is easily manipulated and entertained. The perfect demographic for this show"

I am glad to hear that. I would hate to be in any way appreciated by someone like you who depends on expressing his loathe for a show, spends time on it, and gets so excited that he makes a single post just to announce his upcoming deep pleasure from reading a two-hour review consisting of hatred on a show (that he chooses to continue to watch)
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Mertov
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 5:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Your 10 or so comments here have zero contribution in terms of feedback, do nothing but throw insults at the show, one actually consists of you announcing the intense pleasure you will get from another review "eviscerating" this "puke" of a show. That is outside of reading other reviews (which one is two hours long by your admission), and watching the show itself. Suuuure, that amounts to 45 minutes, riiiiiight.

Now see if you can stop telling fairy tales and have something deep, useful to contribute.
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Mertov
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 5:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Dexter Morgan:
"3 out of 4 stars for this garbage? Is this a sick April fools joke? I was pretty numb to the last 20 minutes because you knew they were just going to bring back Picard at the clone. Its complete garbage. And no, even if the final 20 minutes moved me, it doesnt negate the bullshit that was the previous 9 episodes (with the exception of a few nice scenes and moments). The entire show was a waste of time."

--------------

This is from the same guy who made the following comment in an earlier post:

"I cannot wait for redlightmedia's two hour evisceration of this puke of a show. Its going to be glorious."

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So sorry that Jammer's review does not fulfill your intense addiction to hate-orgasm that some feel.

But feel free to spend hours of your weekly life on the pleasure that you get from watching a show you loathe with a passion, spewing your hatred about it, and pleasuring yourself to the hatred of others on it. That show must really have a permanent space in your mind.
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Dave in MN
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 3:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Eric Jensen

Having Data's second death be a figment of Picard's imagination would make a lot more sense than Data's entire consciousness and memories being preserved in one molecule (before he was regenerated in the simulation).

Unfortunately, the actual death scene (when the USBs were removed) was shown after Picard had left the "quantum simulation".
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Dave in MN
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 1:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Why is Data in a recreation of a room he only saw in an alternate future that he never experienced?

There are just SO many plot holes in EVERY scene (even the sporadic "good" scenes) that I don't see how anyone can suspend disbelief enough to immerse themselves in this program.
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Mertov
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 2:15am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Jammer, yet another great review. Thanks for all ten reviews in fact.

I echo Tim and The Chronek for their praise of The Ready Room and Wil Wheaton's enthusiasm (I mentioned it in my Nepenthe comment too). I found myself looking forward to his 25 minutes or so more and more each week, almost as much as the episodes themselves.
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Dave in MN
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 11:14pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I read that both Riker's and Data's appearances in the finale were part of the reshoots.

I wonder what the test screened version was like.
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Dave in MN
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 7:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Gooz

I hope you're kidding.

I might not be a big fan of Keiko, but I'd watch her nag Miles for a whole episode rather than a sitcom starring Fran Drescher.
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Dave
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Thirdspace

Some special tech opens a gate and is the only way some evil species can come in and destory us all. These destroyers seem about that and the synths are being conned to do what it takes to let them in.
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Picard Maneuver
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 2:06am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part II

It would have been epic if, when taking back command, Picard said to Jellico, "Dick...you're fired!"

"Crusher brought the same hyperventilating worried-mother routine to all her scenes"

Okay Tara, you've convinced me: Crusher is the Karen of the 24th century. I can totally see her going to Starfleet Academy and demanding to talk to the cafeteria manager, which is after she demanded to talk to Wesley's particle physics teacher about the B he got on the quiz.
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Mertov
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 6:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

--------
"By contrast, BSG and Expanse - and Westworld and Altered Carbon etc - didn't have the benefit of a popular brand name like "Star Trek.""

I think you can argue thats actually a blessing for those shows. They have a little more freedom to take their show in certain directions if they choose, without the looming shadow of what came before.
--------

Good point Tommy. It's much easier to see the grass greener on the other side when shows do not have Star Trek tag to them. Altered Carbon, for one example, often resembles blood-squirt city meets porno-fest town and I can hardly imagine it would be talked of highly if it had Star Trek tag. The show called Altered Carbon, as it's known today, would not exist. (I do like Altered Carbon by the way, nothing spectacular, but a decent show to watch for what it is)
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Marvin
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Dom and @Trent sum the expectations I think quite well with regard to serialization and the decades of television to draw from to create a quality show.

It really begs the question then what the “excuse”, if there is one, for PIC not to even come close to the requisite high bar set. Too many writers in the kitchen? Too many producers? Chabon himself mentioned in a recent interview that he wanted to “provoke” a reaction. Sounds like a political agenda?

I think it’s fair to say the writers have reached back into Trek canon to bring in many Trek references, so there’s an attempt to stay true to Trek. It could simply be that CBS is merely cashing in on the Trek franchise by dosing enough nostalgia to keep the Trek fans at bay but to attract a larger audience with a darker, more “melodramatic”, less plot-focused product. One would say that is what Disney is doing with Star Wars (to be fair, Rogue One and the Mandalorian are quite good diamonds in the post-Lucas rough).
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EventualZen
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Eye of the Needle

@Pete328

>It's funny that Star Trek characters have less of an issue respecting sentient nebulas, nannies, and space whales than their own crewmembers
>Correction: that was "nannites" not nannies. There was a TNG episode where Wesley created nannites that started eating the ship's circuitry and it was realized they were living things.

When you said “Nannies” I immediately thought of the TNG episode “The Bonding” where an energy being takes the place of the mother of that little punk from Robocop 2. If you google TNG Robocop 2 the first result is that actor's IMDB page.

>He says good night and I wondered how he knows it's night on Voyager unless he can secretly see Janeway in her pj's.
This reminds me of a common problem on Star Trek, the fact that nearly everything happens during the day shift of the ship or station. I remember in one episode Harry Kim is saying how nothing happens during the night shift – there is no night time in space.

@Ildaf

>I don't recall Data treated anywhere like that on the Enterprise, even in the early episodes.
Dr. Pulaski was pretty rude to Data.

@Springy

>How could they do that? Assume the Romulans kept up their end of the deal. What would happen when the crew woke up - would it be after Voyager disappears? Would there then be two Janeways (e.g.)? One in the Alpha quadrant, and one in the Delta quadrant? Or do you wake them up before Voyager disappears, and both Janeways stay in the Alpha quadrant,

There would be two Janeways until the original leaves for the Delta Quadrant, unless that is they change history by warning Voyager not to leave, in which case the frozen Janeway and her crew would disappear.

If I remember correctly the crew's messages from this episode weren't mentioned when they finally made contact with the Starfleet which I found disappointing.

Overall an average episode 5/10.
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Mertov
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 1:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Just noticed, mine is quite similar to skye-francis (top 4 the same).
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Mertov
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 1:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Fun... Here is my ranking for first seasons:

1) TOS
2) PIC
3) VOY
4) DS9
5) DSC
6) TNG
7) ENT
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Picard Maneuver
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 12:19am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part I

I know when I think "special ops" I think "mid-40s clinician who looks like a housewife" and "Shakespearean actor who has been 50 years old for decades". At least the Ferengi immediately figured out who they were. In real life it would be like sending someone like Colin Powell or Jim Mattis out undercover. Picard would probably be recognized by someone regardless of where he went. After a rough start, the Cardassians finally come into their own here.

Hard to believe it took five and a half seasons to finally get Troi into uniform, which she actually looks good in. It's not that I object to a custom outfit, but most of them were shit. In retrospect, they probably should have put her in the uniform the entire time but given her some sort of accessory, like Crusher's labcoat or Worf's baldric. But knowing the costume designers they would have given her something ridiculous like a feather boa or some functionless pouch that made her look pregnant.

Around 16 minutes, some of the fluorescent lights near the hallway ground flicker as Riker and LaForge walk. I guess shooting was too tight to replace them. Worf's proximity alarm buster thingie sounds like an email notification.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 8:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Yanks

Here's my perspective as a 40 year old guy who happens to be gay.

I went the first 20 years without any gay characters in genre fiction. I saw no one like me dealing with the unique aspects of gay existence as well as whatever difficulties the plot presented.

If there WAS a gay character, it would be either be a villian (mirror-Kira), a psychopath (The Kid in The Stand), a Queen (The Birdcage) or an saintly AIDS victim.

Yes, I'll agree that Hollywood is over-correcting somewhat (especially since infidelity seems to be the most common plot development gay characters encounter), but I'm happy that kids today (that are watching intelligent programming like "The Society" or "The Orville" or what-have-you) get to have someone they can see themselves it.

It's a lot better than the way I felt when I younger: that the only like-minded characters I saw were either damaged, diseased or comic relief.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 7:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Nolan

After reading your comment, I'll second that an episode/ scene of Seven grappling with her sexuality (as you describe) would have been powerful.

I hope the Powers That Be are paying attention.
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Marvin
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 5:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Glom said "So with Picard, for some, the themes it touches on are embraced as valuable while the plot holes are dismissed as niggles that aren't worth obsessing over, but for others, the slapdash nature of the connective tissue tanks the value of the themes trying desperately to get out."

Agreed. I think a well written plot that is well acted and casted is way more difficult to achieve than themes. Not to offend those more focused on the achievement of the theme, but I think thematic storytelling to the exclusion of poor writing is really an appeal to emotion. There's a lot of TV out there to get me emotional, but not a lot of TV with tight acting, writing, and plot. Of course, to have both is great TV.
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Marvin
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 5:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Tim

Really agree with you on DS9. I felt the best seasons were actually the first 2, before the Dominion War arc(s) started. Granted, the couple seasons after season 2 had the Dominion plot on mini arcs, with the non-Dominion episodes pretty good, but the show started to get boring and contrived (contrived for the reasons you stated in relation to WW2) when going onto full Dominion mode.

I think you're right re ripping off Babylon 5, way too many parallels, including the introduction of the Defiant to move events off-station (similar to the introduction of the Whitestar in B5, but Bablylon 5 the station still retained importance). I think DS9 wrote itself into a corner by the setting; i.e., having it set on a station constrained the normal Trek ship setting to "boldly go", yet I think the setting was ripe for character development and Bajoran, Cardassian, and Gamma Quadrant development. However, the Dominion War arc(s) pretty much hemmed in further Gamma Quadrant narratives. In addition, there weren't enough Maquis episodes, and I think there could have been interesting themes about loyalty and new alliances vis-a-vis Bajor, Cardassia, the Maquis, and other alien races.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 10:40am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Tim

I forgot to address your last point.

Imagine if The Orville didn't exist and this was all we had Trek-wise (a scary thought, I know).

It's sad the Trek showrunners are so tone-deaf, but sinking a franchise is their cross to bear. Besides, it doesn't erase the legacy of everything that came before.

Anyways, I'll take my Trek-done-right anywhere I can get it and The Orville gets the job done.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 10:30am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@ Tim

I can't speak for others, but as for myself:

I have no issue with any kind of relationship being portrayed on any show as long as both participants are sentient willing adults.

But these developments weren't shown (OR told) to the viewer whatsoever.

Suddenly Seven is a part of the crew and is dating someone? How was there enough time for these things to happen? Furthermore, how did we get from Point A to Point B?

It comes across as implausible .... and as a bungled attempt to score "woke" points (not to be political, just my opinion).
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