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Trashbarg
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 7:15pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@Gerontius

-- "she's even said "no problem" with me going ahead with her younger version, so that would settle it for me"

You sir are far braver man than I. If and when the WW3 comes I'd be honored to share the foxhole with you and brave the post atomic horror so we can witness that glorious day in Bozeman, Montana.
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Trashbarg
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 9:32am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@ Tomalak

Generally there is a lot of unspoken red lines associated with dating friend's exes, siblings of your friends, siblings of your previous partners etc. etc. which can cause a lot of fallout if you don't approach them carefully. It's just the way humans work, an ever shifting minefield, when feelings and sex in general are involved. General rule of thumb is communication and respect, you contact parties involved and talk it out, if you value persons involved. Time stranded doppelganger is a play on this situation to the power of thousand. I mean we are not Vulcans :D
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Trashbarg
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 7:31am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@Tomalak

The problem with Star Trek in the waning years of the 90s era was the recycling and it was something the franchise was called out on repeatedly until most of us just moved on and Enterprise petered out. I watched ALL of Trek multiple times, original runs and reruns, and Voyager and Enterprise are cynical and bald faced exploitation of TNG formula, I said it then, and I say it now. In both shows you still had good actors heroically struggling against almost computer generated scripts.

Regarding Ed and younger Kelly, him doing the whole relent or I'll date your previous self thing was very very unethical, because despite them being divorced Kelly is a person who has feelings, is his friend and coworker and some sort of empathy must kick in. It's a strange way of violating one's person, also it kinda nukes the whole possibility of him getting his "real" Kelly sometime down the road and risks effectiveness of his chain of command.

If an old girlfriend of mine tried to date my previous self I'd feel pretty much pissed off and insecure because despite me and my past self being essentially two different people it's still ME she is after and the thought of 7 years older ex gf preying on my younger self with all the knowledge and power disparity would definitely make me suspect I'm dealing with someone who perhaps never respected me above having me as a possession, I'd maybe even feel obliged to go along to protect my previous self.
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Trashbarg
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 3:45am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Booming - window or no window is immaterial here, because Star Trek material science is rather undefined and acts according to the writing and budget since forever. It's kinda silly from our perspective, but it could very well be some transparent tritanium alloy or whatever. I just wanted to point out that there's some basic engineering principles involved that are applied in 20th Century to deal with those situations and being kinda into all things naval and military I was amazed that people here were that surprised by basic blast redirection.

Also, this classified thing is also pretty possible. In a 7k ship fleet stretching over thousands of lightyears it's not really that hard for a ship to drop out of public knowledge with a gag order. The US could have classified F117 if it sucked in some way and we would never find out about it, like no one else did know during the Have Blue phase of the project or Beast of Kandahar which did it's thing before getting snatched by Iranians with nothing more but silly sounding rumours about something something flying out at night.

Basically, what I'm arguing here is that some stuff that gets criticised is kinda directly lifted from various real life examples. There's so many problems in this finale that blast doors doing blast door things and a navy successfully classifying stuff about a ship are the least of our worries.
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Trashbarg
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:52pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@Spockless

How exactly is redoing stories genius? I mean, I do art for living ( TV related ), and I just can't for the life of me get why would retracing stuff this closely be anything else but ( most politely put ) derivative. Is it really the case that Trek told ALL the possible stories that could happen to people serving on a starship? I don't think so. For 20 years of hindsight and $7 mil a pop there is painfully little innovation or will to move on. Why can't the TNG nod stay on the visual trappings and the whole ensemble structure? Would Orville suck if they kept the visual language of TNG and threw away the script books? With cancellation looming I am getting more and more pissed off with old Trek inertia that the show seems to have caught by hiring everyone and their dog from those days and letting them do the same thing yet another time, even though the last two shows doing the same recipe pretty much killed TV Trek for 15 years? You can do TNG type show, without reducing a great ensemble to a hotel cover band doing 80s AOR covers.

Problems with Discovery and Last Jedi aren't new stories, but deeply deeply flawed execution, from the writing room to the cutting room.
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Trashbarg
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 8:44pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

I'm just gonna talk about the blast door thing. You guys familiar with M1 Abrams tank, designed through the 70s and fielded through the 80s and up to this day? It keeps it's ammo in turret bustle which has blast doors that separate the ammo from the crew compartment while the roof is made in such way that if something penetrates the ammo storage the blast doors protect the crew and help explosion go upwards and not incinerate people in fighting compartment. Is it so far fetched that similar design principle is used in starships with outer skin configured to vent the internal explosions out so they don't crisp the crew?

Also, it's not only about the material, it's about how the whole thing ties into the overall hull construction and there is usually some plan involved with dealing with various types of damage, be it concussion, blast or penetration borne out of incessant testing. I suppose that blast doors are integrated into strength decks ( or whatever is equivalent on starships ). Basically, you can't build an invincible Abrams out of it's blast compartment doors.
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Trashbarg
Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

Weren't Klingons droning about cultural preservation in face of Federation since like forever? From Kruge to Chang and onwards, forever dreading that moment when they'll feel the urge to settle down on some nice farm world with Federation flag waving in the wind above them.
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trashbarg
Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 11:01am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

By no means I'm against measuring the two shows against each other, what I'm against is entrenched war of attrition which persists, with sides rarely conceding anything. It's like World War 1 with all the fun sucked out of it. You see, for me both shows cut both ways, with stuff that I find really well executed and stuff that I rather dislike.

Discovery, I appreciate it moving away from what by the mid run of Voyager became corporate exploitation and filling in some blanks along the way, however it suffers from myriad of problems in execution, with the the biggest problem for me being the direction and editing which take after modern Marvel stuff which I hate. I mean I could go on and on, but I'll reserve that for Disco threads :D

Orville on the other hand gives me comforting format that I grew up with and a very capable ensemble, but it follows the old playbook rather too closely and it seems to me like a lot of the old Trek crew there on the production/writing side of things just fell into their old habits. I grew up with TNG, watched all the shows while they aired, then in countless reruns, know everything by heart and I know I want some of that "same old same old" but not quite the same "same old" if you catch my drift? I guess that's why I like that whole Klyden/Bortus thing so much, how many strained alien marriages we had the chance to observe at length? Not many!

In the end, I tune in every week for both shows, because potential is there and occasionally it shines through. I'm pretty interested in what will they become and wish them long runs to realise that potential. Also, both shows running in parallel offers a nice possibility to sort of revise and discuss a lot of aspects of Trek, without getting the knives out :D
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Trashbarg
Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 2:31am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

Man, this show. I guess it was okay? With Orville it's always the same for me, whatever originality it has and whatever a really good ensemble tries to do it sort of always crumbles for me with it's slavish following of TNG/VOY/DS9 formulas. I loved each of those, but after 500+ eps of the same schtick I know all the beats by heart. Hell most of the VOY run I was really pissed off at the production for just faxing it in, then ENT killed me inside right out of the gate. IMO Orville needs liberation from these chains to truly become a great show, it's being dragged down by all the baggage.

Does anyone else find Union a bit opportunistic? It's one of the more interesting aspects to me. They seem real quick to admit peoples or try to ally with them for immediate gain, be it tech or ships. Perhaps this Moclan thing will be the engine of change for their foreign policy. Less Machiavellism, more idealism. I hope they continue to run with this theme.

P.S. First time poster, long time reader, yadda yadda, nice to meet you all. Wish all the boring Disco vs. Orville flames would stop, because they are boring and not very well argumented, and life is not a zero sum game.
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