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Tomalak
Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 8:46am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I found this one really boring. Just a long wait for the ending we all knew was coming as soon as Kelly appeared at the beginning. I'm glad others got something out of it as I didn't.
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Tomalak
Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 8:16am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@SlackerInc, given it already happened thousands of years before you were born why would it change anything? As I say, you seem to imagine there is some kind of conscious time line who reacts angrily to interfering time travellers by splitting in two. I'm fact, the timeline would be blissfully unaware and any time travel in the past would not change the time line because it already happened that way.
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Tomalak
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 2:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

Gerontius, yes, I agree!

Perhaps I may regret this when my younger self starts dating my (currently hypothetical) ex-wife, but I can't see why I have any ownership over my exes OR my time travelling younger selves if the two want to hook up. I can see how the power might be convenient for me, but I can't see why it would be ethical for me to have it in the first place.

Again, sorry if I just missed the class in school where we are all told why this is wrong, but I am still oblivious.
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Tomalak
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 8:03am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

By the way, there was a pretty good time travel detective drama, Crime Traveller, which explored time travel in a way that made logical sense. Each episode the main characters went back in time to solve a crime. But nothing they did changed the "present" as whatever they did had already happened previously in the present that they left.
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Tomalak
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 7:56am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@Trashbarg, I must have missed the lesson in class/church where the code of ethics for dating a time travelling younger version of a past lover is laid out because I don't find your conclusions nearly as obvious as you do. In particular, I can't see why Kelly-1's views on who Kelly-2 dates should trump Kelly-2's views (either directly or indirectly through making Mercer feel guilty about it)?

@Slacker I agree with Boomer that the theory sounds like "absolute nonsense". I also don't think it does anything to make sense of time travel - unless by make sense you mean solve basic plot errors that the creators may or may not have made? Creators who we have no reason to think are writing the show with this near infinite alternative universes theory in mind.
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Tomalak
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 1:57am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@Gerontius, yes, I totally agree. How many times did Star Trek rehash the same shuttle crash, trapped in a holding cell or holodeck gone wrong scenario, to name just three tropes off the top of my head? Anyone comparing the Orville to Star Trek on the basis that the latter only used original concepts and plots hasn't watched much Star Trek, and isn't being fair to the Orville.

"I thought Ed was going to ask Kelly her opinion of him dating her younger self, not give her a "if not you, then it'll be her" statement (paraphrase). That felt weird."

Yes, I think this was an attempt to be woke and feminist by McFarlane, but very unrealistic. I have yet to meet a man who would give first dibs to a 35 year old who cheated on him over a 28 year old who didn't, all other things being equal (which of course they are in this case!). Maybe the idea is he knew what the answer would be so could use her refusal to justify pursuing the better option.

"the first face-off of Kelly and Kelly and them circling around each other (with what is supposedly an eerie score) falls flat"

Yes, very badly done. I can get a sense of wariness, but I struggle to believe someone's response in that kind of scenario is to walk like a crab in a perfect enlarged semi-circle and then end up facing 180 degrees from where they started. The way the cameras showed their feet doing it made it much more noticeable.
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Tomalak
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 1:41am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@SlackerInc "What a twist at the end. I guess she was wrong and she's actually creating divergent timelines (which is the only way time travel makes sense IMO)."

So there are now two parallel timelines? Triggered by what? Does 'the time line' somehow consciously knows it has been interfered with by time travellers and reacts by splitting in two?? Or are you saying every time alternative outcomes come into play there are new universes? In which case there was already a divergent time line in which Kelly and Ed only went on a single date, and time travel did not change this. Either way, I am not clear on how this makes sense of time travel.

I think the only way it can make sense is if any actions we see time travellers take in the past already happened, and therefore can change nothing in the present. Obvs that would make for boring Sci Fi though, so there are efforts to present a paradox that isn't really there. I am happy to suspend disbelief for the sake of enjoying fiction but I don't think there is a paradox in reality.
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Tomalak
Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 6:05am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

I really liked how they tied this in to Mercer's prophetic comment about how Moclan society is so different that he wonders how much they can really get along. At the time I thought "Hmm well as long as they keep their strange laws to their own planet it shouldn't become a diplomatic issue". This episode answered that.

On Sirtis, she was heavily billed on social media - and then barely got a line this episode. Disappointing, really. Why bother promoting that? I hope she is back again.
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Tomalak
Sat, Feb 23, 2019, 3:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Identity, Part I

Not just the best Orville episode but one of the best episodes of any Trek (it's so similar to Star Trek I am happy to group it in that way).

What a shower of shit Discovery is by comparison.
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Tomalak
Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 8:09am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: All the World Is Birthday Cake

Slacker, it's not a misunderstanding. Other atheists came up with a term that is deliberately offensive to anyone who disagrees with them and you apparently use it without even realising that. Obviously people can call themselves whatever they like - but it's obviously incredibly closed minded to say everyone who thinks freely could reach only your own conclusions about big questions. Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying that plenty of devout Christians, Jews etc can also be free thinkers?
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Tomalak
Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 6:43am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: All the World Is Birthday Cake

"This [implying that only atheists can be free thinkers] is common usage in my circles"

That says so much more about your circles than it does about religious people. Absurd.
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Tomalak
Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 2:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: All the World Is Birthday Cake

Is there any purpose to claiming only atheists are freethinkers other than to detail the thread? I am agnostic myself but I find sentences like that absurd.
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Tomalak
Sun, Jan 27, 2019, 9:47am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: All the World Is Birthday Cake

I don't mind plots that don't make total sense if the jokes are good. But there was hardly any humour this week either.

The birth scene was interminable. Do they think there is something inherently moving about watching a birth? Boring.
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Tomalak
Mon, Nov 26, 2018, 7:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: First Contact

"it's really surprising that any Star Trek fan is so pro-capitalist since the Federation in Star Trek is a nearly pure socialist entity"

I see this argument made a fair bit and if you are making this point in good faith - rather than as some kind of "Ha! Gotcha!" - it deserves a response. Why would a keen conservative also be a keen Star Trek fan?

1. You can enjoy fiction without enjoying every specific bit of it. At least until Discovery, while Star Trek's political and moral messages have always been heavy handed and extremely unsubtle, they are reasonably rare and often confined to the closing minutes of an episode. I don't feel like I am watching a political campaign ad when watching Star Trek.

2. Similarly, it's not a contradiction to like someone's fiction while disagreeing with their politics. For all I know, Ronald Reagan would have written some awful Star Trek episodes (although he talked about sci fi themes a surprising amount for a leading politician), but that wouldn't actually alter my view of his Presidency. Ditto I can think a Star Trek writer's politics are something I would never vote for while enjoying his scripts.

3. I think there is a fair bit of liberals seeing 20th/21st century conservatives in Star Trek villains in a way that no conservative would.

Anyone can caricature ideas they disagree with, but there is this helpful notion - the ideological Turing test - that requires one to describe what your political opponents believe in a way that they would agree describes their own belief. You don't have to agree with that description yourself - you just need to be able to describe what someone else thinks so accurately that they would endorse it.

I don't think many Star Trek writers are even trying to caricature conservatives, but insofar as they do, they would usually fail the ideological Turing test. I don't feel in any way obliged to side with the evil caricatures when they don't remotely reflect my view of the ends and means in the first place! (Or, to separate ends and means, you could even happily agree with a character's verbal argument about tradition or whatever, but when they do something evil you could disagree with that bit.)

4. Perhaps above all, the notion of Star Trek as this post-economics, post-scarcity utopia has always seemed the weakest part of the franchise. Almost every time it is touched upon - which is rare - it comes up against problems like:

"Why is everyone cheering that round of drinks Picard bought everyone if it's free anyway?"
"What do humans do when meeting a society that doesn't practice post-currency economics and actually wants to be paid?" [Jake Sisko's answer was to whine at Rom for his latinum so he could bid in an auction.]
"Who exactly is allocating tables in Ben Sisko's dad's restaurant for free? Who is working in 'turbolift control' on a starship?"

This is before you even consider deeper, but rather obvious, questions like "If 4 million people all want an apartment next to the Royal Opera House, who gets to live there?".

So no, I don't look at Star Trek and think it provides any kind of example of why socialism works.

By the way, nothing I have written above is in any way meant to imply that Star Trek fans should be conservatives, either - it's just a response to the notion it would be in any way surprising that someone could be a card-carrying conservative and a Trekkie.
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Tomalak
Mon, Nov 26, 2018, 2:28am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Outrageous Okona

"In fact, seeing so many complaining so much about the minor faults and lesser details of what are, essentially, wonderful stories about a better future is what has made me all but stop commenting here on Jammer's."

Weird. I don't comment much but I really like getting very different takes on these episodes, and look forward to reading the review and comments here the minute an episode is done. I can't imagine anything more dull to read than people purely being positive about things they liked, and so worried about appearing to "complain" that they turn off their critical faculties. No thanks.
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Tomalak
Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 7:26am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: In Theory

Every so often you hear about some eccentric woman somewhere in the world falling in love with her chandelier or candlestick or hairdryer and going through a faux marriage ceremony. Not clear how any of this is different - unless you also believe a chandelier programmed to talk back would also be a suitable romantic partner.
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Tomalak
Sun, Jul 1, 2018, 6:35am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Timescape

When we first see the Enterprise bridge, it looks like Romulan attack because Romulans are present, Riker is on the floor and the semi circle behind Picard's seat had a massive disrupter or phaser blast. The first two are explained but was the damage to the bridge ever explained?
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Tomalak
Mon, Jan 1, 2018, 1:15am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: The Jem'Hadar

Fault look above should read "default look".
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Tomalak
Mon, Jan 1, 2018, 1:14am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: The Jem'Hadar

A number of people above ask why neither Eris nor the Jem Hadar appear to recognise Odo as a founder.

But they show no special ability to realise someone is a changeling in any other episodes. Even Odo can't seem to tell who other founders are just to look at them and talk to them.

The humanoid appearance the female changeling and others take on does look like him, but the Search Part II says that is then matching up to him. Other episodes establish that his look is the best job he can do of looking like a humanoid, not some kind of fault look for his species. So why didn't they acknowledge him as a founder in any way? Because no founder they had ever encountered looked like that.
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Tomalak
Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 9:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Who Mourns for Morn?

It would have been a great in joke if Morn had spoken a lot in the Mirror Universe episodes. Maybe in our universe he "never shuts up" but the viewer never heard from him while in the Mirror Universe he's known to be quiet but he gets loads of on screen lines.
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Tomalak
Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 2:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: In the Pale Moonlight

If I was Dax I'd be very suspicious. You, Sisko and others discuss how much a pain the Romulans are. Then in his office you go through a whole role play with him on how to bring them into the war, a role play in which it becomes crystal clear that something needs to happen before the Romulans will change their stance. A few days go by, and by an apparent remarkable coincidence an assassination that seems likely to bring the Romulans into the war happens, and instead of reacting like everyone else Sisko mysteriously storms off wordlessly on hearing the news. Hmm...

On a separate note, even if the Senator had been taken in by the recording, how could the plan ever have involved Tolar staying alive? Garak obviously planned to kill him all along but what did Sisko plan to do?
"He believed it, Tolar. You're free to go... Obviously don't tell anyone. The entire future of the war depends on you keeping quiet. Even if we win, the Romulans will go apeshit and attack us if they ever find out. You're not the kind of person to do anything unscrupulous and blurt it out are you? The sort who is reckless after a few drinks?"
"Course I'm not! See you!"
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Tomalak
Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 6:37am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

I don't understand how anyone can consider this episode (or TNG's Who Watches the Watchers?) a remotely convincing critique of religion.

I find it very plausible that primitive people could worship people with far more advanced technology (e.g. look up the cargo cult). But unless one is arguing that Jesus or Mohammed or Moses was using technology from the far future, I can't see the relevance to the actual religious beliefs that people on Earth have.

I enjoyed this episode and WWTW but I think anyone who comes away from them thinking they've seen a critique of religion is seeing what they want to see and hasn't thought it through.
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Tomalak
Fri, Dec 1, 2017, 9:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: New Dimensions

"I want you and I to be okay."

I cringed at this line. How can you be a TV writer and not know when to use I and when to use me?
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Tomalak
Sun, Nov 19, 2017, 1:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S3: Chosen Realm

Captain: "Oh, and the root cause of [the Iran-Iraq War]? Well! It was a verrrry important dispute, you see. Yes indeed. Apparently, when Mohammed died in the 7th century, there was an argument about whether his successor should be his son-in-law, or his buddy."

Bit of a stretch to call this the root cause of a war between two majority Shia countries in the 20th Century. Note that it was a secular Iraqi government that started the conflict by invading Iran, not the other way around.
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Tomalak
Sat, Nov 11, 2017, 6:30am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Cupid's Dagger

One of the curious things about the show is that the characters act and talk in a very unintelligent way - like valley girls and meatheads - even in working hours. This helps build the story: e.g. you put an idiot on that Facebook Like planet, or in charge of a diplomatic mission, and it's plausible when everything quickly falls apart.

But it's implausible that these people would ever be employed in these kind of roles in the first place. You have to suspend disbelief a lot to believe people like Darulio would be a leading archaeologist, that most people on the bridge would ever be trusted in that kind of job and so on.
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