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Thomas M
Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 1:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: The Red Angel

@MadmanMUC

It really does sound like you need to watch it again. Pike mentions that Control is likely still out there waiting to strike and has advised all S31 to purge the Control system and stop using it. Later after the Red Angel appears, the S31 ship’s main systems go offline. Leland attempts to get them back online using his security overrides. The ship glitches for a moment then starts working normally at which point the controls gouge Leland’s eye sockets leaving him for dead while taking his security overrides. We then hear *Leland’s voice* tell Tyler that he’s ready to proceed containing the Red Angel. We’ve seen Control imitate officers before on com systems, so you can make your own conclusion what’s going on.
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Thomas M
Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 10:40am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: The Red Angel

@Artymiss, Madman

I thought it was pretty clear Control killed Leland as the next scene has *his voice* telling everyone the containment field is ready while the real Leland lies dead/unconscious. The implication of course is that Control is interested in stealing the Red Angel’s technology, and thus helps everyone contain her.
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Thomas M
Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:10am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: The Red Angel

The time crystals are just used to power the mechanism developed that actually does the time travel. What Alan Roi is describing could theoretically serve that purpose. It’s certainly more scientific than say, the Flux Capacitor, (and to be fair, BTTF does promote real science in other parts of the story).
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Thomas M
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

When the show hinted that the Red Angel was from the future, my first reaction that it might tie into the Short Trek “Calypso,” since that episode seemed so far removed from anything the show was actually doing (and the Saru short tied in directly to the season).

Rewatching “Calypso,” it still doesn’t seem to connect to anything, although the main character in it, Craft, who is human, has a big tattoo on his back that looks somewhat angelic (turns out its a cyclops owl, a native species from his colony planet).

Otherwise, the idea of time travelers from the future intervening in the past reeks a lot of the temporal Cold War from Enterprise, so much so that I’m inclined to wish it was tied into that. At least that would provide a decent sense of continuity I suppose.

However, I suppose if this Red Angel is trying to stop the destruction of all life in the galaxy then that means the show is creating the future that leads to Kirk and Picard and Sisko et al. from a natural timeline where everything was destroyed (not unlike when the temporal agents saved Enterprise at the end of season 1, I suppose). This would supposedly preclude the 29th century time cops from intervening.

In thinking about what the future machine fleet that did this was, my first thought wasn’t about the Borg, but the planet-killer from the episode “The Doomsday Machine.” What if Discovery retcons it so that the weapon that Kirk later encounters was actually from the future, a remnant of however Discovery ends up stopping the destruction of the galaxy? Just a passing thought. (Though it means requiring Spock not to know what it is. On a side note, Peter David wrote a pretty great novel that imagined the Doomsday machines in an ancient war with the Borg.)

On the other hand, Spock’s curiosity over the Red Angel reminded me a lot over his desire to mind meld with V’Ger.

Also, the “Interstellar”-type black hole was a neat visual, though anyone familiar with The Cage (as Spock was) would have realized pretty quickly it was an illusion. Likewise the final twist where they fake out Section 31. It basically puts the episode in a catch-22, as the legacy viewers will only appreciate the nostalgia as the story will seem predictable, while the new viewers who know nothing of The Cage might enjoy the tension, but the episode isn’t made for them.

Finally, still no mention of Sybok despite some moments he could have been name-dropped. Not that they need to, but I found it interesting that Burnham chastises the Talosians for wanting to see her and Spock’s pain, and seeing (and releasing people from) personal pain later turns out to be Sybok’s shtick. If the Discovery writers ultimately choose to completely sidestep the Sybok issue, it may be fodder for some future novel that Sybok learned of Talos from keeping an eye on Spock’s adventures, ended up going there, learned some of his mental tricks from the Talosians.
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Thomas M
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 2:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

The upcoming Airiam story is actually the perfect chance to fill us is in more on the character. They've been doing this pattern in season 2 where different characters will start the episode with a narration or log and then the episode more or less centers an A or B plot on that character. Not saying they'll do this for Airiam for sure, mind you, but I think the character is becoming popular enough to warrant that kind of story treatment.
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Thomas M
Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 10:12am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

I suppose there needed to be something that necessitated the advent of synthehol.
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Thomas M
Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 11:48am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: The Sound of Thunder

For those criticizing Ash in this episode, I think he's going to be vindicated later. It's easy to see the Red Angel's actions as altruistic, but you have to wonder if, as Ira Behr would put it, there aren't some "weasels under the coffee table" here.
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Thomas M
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@Dave in MN

Gene Roddenberry had a lawyer, Leonard Maizlish, who he used to threaten the TNG and TOS movie producers well into the last years of life. He filed numerous lawsuits including one against director Leonard Nimoy, insisting 15 minutes of footage be cut from the film The Undiscovered Country for “too many military aspects”. (He lost, by the way, and the film was a rousing success for tackling tough Cold War issues).

We can thank Roddenberry for a lot of things, but he’s not the end all, be all, of Trek. As mentioned, DS9 wouldn’t even exist as we know it if it was up to him.
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Thomas M
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 3:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

Are rightsholders even relevant to the canon discussion?

Desilu Productions owned the rights to TOS before Gulf+Western bought them out. Does that mean the fans who enjoyed the post-Desilu Trek are living a lie and not watching true Star Trek? My apologies, but I really don’t see the distinction.
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Thomas M
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 2:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

Dave those are your arbitrary standards for canon. How are they are a more valid than the Official canon, or Meyer’s or anyone else’s here? If you’d like us to respect your feelings about Trek canon I just hope you’d reciprocate the gesture.
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Thomas M
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 2:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@Dave in MN

Handwaiving is part of Trek history, and it seems you’re willing to ignore that part of Trek history when it suits your tastes, so expecting otherwise from different writers with different ideas about Trek is a little hypocritical, don’t you think?

Let’s look at “Wrath of Khan”, for instance checking its background info:

“Khan's apparent recognition of Chekov and his remark "I never forget a face" are somewhat ironic, since Khan's appearance in TOS: "Space Seed" was in the first season and Chekov did not make his first appearance until Star Trek's second season; TOS: "Catspaw" was the episode which he made that first appearance.

In his DVD commentary track, director Meyer said that he was aware of the discontinuity but ignored it. Meyer acknowledged that he could have just as easily put Uhura on the Reliant and keep the consistency, but he preferred Chekov and referenced the fact that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle frequently contradicted himself in his books about Sherlock Holmes, saying that the continuity did not matter, as long as he had the audience engrossed in and enjoying the story.”

So, by your standards, should there be a Meyer timeline, since Meyer didn’t think continuity was necessary for a good Trek story?
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Thomas M
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 1:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

Trek’s pretty good with canon, but there are some glaring problems like Klingons going from looking completely human to looking like Worf. Speaking of the Klingons, does anyone remember them joining the Fedration, because TNG at first decided that was a thing.

Also, although later Treks visit the 1990s and a little past, Khan is no where to be found let alone the Eugenics Wars of the 20th century described in Space Seed.

Kirk was surprised by Romulan cloaking devices in Balance of Terror, but NX-01 already encountered them twice, including cloaked *Romulans ships*.

You can really end up going down the rabbit hole by using continuity alone as the standard of quality for a Trek show.
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