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Thomas
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 9:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Project Daedalus

@Kinematic

Canon isn't much of a concern for me either. It's just that it's hard to feel any emotion upon, say, the occurrence of a shuttle explosion or any other life-threatening, when the resident Federation surgeon-magician at the nearest starbase can resurrect anyone involved with a bunch of cybernetic implants. Same goes with Culber's spore-womb revival. In this universe, the price of death it seems is rather cheap.
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Thomas
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 7:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Project Daedalus

The Airiam storythread still eludes me.

Airiam is supposed to be part human, part machine. After her shuttle accident with her husband the scientists were capable enough to mechanically reconstruct the part of her that thinks, remembers and functions, which is how she is able to interface with computers and function from downloaded algorithms such as the red lights virus. They've also given her an entirely mechanical face and probably (from the way she walks) most of her body. So why is it they can't rebuild the parts that "died" when she is ejected into space and reattach them to the core memories and functioning that the rest of her body is built around? It should be a piece of cake compared with the complexity of essentially building a mechanical brain which holds all the memories of her previous life.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it often seems like the tech in this era is more advanced than it should be, but only when it is convenient to advance the plot.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 1:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

I think there's a fundamental difference between literary sci fi and TV/film sci fi: A sci fi book does not need a budget of tens of millions of dollars to get published. Also, by definition, the literary medium requires the reader to actively imagine the world he is reading about. You can't just turn off your brain when you read a sci fi story in book form.

OTOH most of the TV/movie sci fi we currently have, isn't really sci fi at all. It's just a huge visual spectacle created by mega-corps to milk the masses of their money, using a thin sci-fi skin as the medium. Two big exceptions of this are the Orville and the Expanse, but these - really - are the exceptions that prove the rule.

This is true for other genres as well, by the way. For years now, 90%+ of all TV shows are little more than coorperate-created trash.

I'm not saying there aren't *any* good shows. But they are very few in number. It's amazing how difficult it is to find something watchable, in a world with hundreds of channels and countless streaming services.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 7:52am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

@Trent
"Regardless, I can't think of any other show running now that, like Orville, taps into the same vibe as 1950s anthologized SF, especially with its sense of wide-eyed, homespun, farm boy awww shucks earnestness, of the kind you found in a lot of early juvenilia (before SF novels were a thing)."

Why say "1950s anthologized SF" when you can simply say "TOS"? ;-)

That's the series that the Orville reminds me the most. The show may resemble TNG visually, but it is far closer in tone to the original series.

The Orville is basically a TOS pastiche augmented with some of the newer storytelling techniques A/B plots, dramatic elements, character arcs) and updated to deal with current day issues (the dangers of social media, or the difference between denouncing extremism and hating the extremists as people).

Sure, it's goofy at times, but so was TOS. And you know something? I think our era is in a desperate need for a TOS-like show.
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Thiago Santos
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 4:51am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

There we have it. The first 4 stars episode: well deserved.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 12:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Project Daedalus

@Bert
"Gil, if you hate it so much that your comments are such vitriolic hatred that they turn into trolling, stop watching it."

Look who is talking... Isn't that exactly what you're doing on the Orville threads?

But honestly, I agree this has gone far enough. I think Jammer should start deleting posts which are nothing but vitriol on the threads of both shows. Disliking a show is one thing. Posting vitriolic mockery and starting wars is quite another.

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Another Dave
Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 1:32am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Blink of an Eye

I was interested to see someone note the similarity to the book Dragon's Egg. It's basically the same story, up to a point, done in the style of Star Trek, so good pick up, Derek.
Rather than nitpick plot holes or logical inconsistencies, I like to rate a show on how enjoyable an hour of television it was for me, and this was a good one. There are some even larger plot holes one could pick on for Living Witness, but as a whole I think these two shows are on a par with each other and very enjoyable hours of TV. If you're willing to suspend your disbelief enough to grant warp drive and universal translators, it seems to me you can forgive a lot if you were entertained, and even more if thought was provoked. /dl
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Thomas
Fri, Mar 15, 2019, 10:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Project Daedalus

I was prepared to say that regardless of the plot, this was the best directed episode yet in terms of clarity, pacing and balance. However there are few things I don't understand:
-The shields were turned off and yet the mines still didn't affect the ship? In one scene you saw blue flashes of light, which I assume were the shields.
-The transporter, as many have mentioned, would have been the obvious solution to the Airiam problem.
-What exactly was the nature of Airiam? They made it seem like she was just a bunch of memories in a cybernetic shell, which should have made it possible to survive the vacuum of space. What is it in her that 'died' and could not be revived when she was portrayed as basically a computer?
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Ruth
Fri, Mar 15, 2019, 3:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

This has been the first episode of Discovery that I’ve really genuinely enjoyed for its own sake and not just in comparison to the rest of DSC which hasn’t generally lived up to my expectations. Sometimes I’m surprised by what Jammer does and doesn’t consider a 4 star episode particularly in DS9 and VOY but I’m in total agreement this time, including with the problems this episode has and is thoroughly enjoyable in spite of.

I don’t like the mirror universe as a serious concept in general and I don’t like Section 31 but I loved Georgiou relishing the Talosian’s trick on Leland. That was hilarious. I want to know if Burnham telling Spock to say goodbye Spock came from them or the Talosians or what. Maybe I have low standards or a stupid sense of humour but the episode got serious points from me on that alone.
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Matthew Martin
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 11:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Project Daedalus

Let me see if I have this right...

So, a few weeks ago Disco comes into contact with a giant space sphere thing, which has been gathering intel on galactic life for a long freaking time. Disco brings that bad boy on board and downloads the history of the world part one into their computers.

Later, Disco sends a shuttle into a crazy timey-wimey space anomaly. While there, a probe from the future latches onto the shuttle. The probe hacks Ariam.

Ariam goes to Section 31's HQ (Disco is there on the orders of Admiral Whatshername) and begins downloading the space sphere's info into the HQ computer (a special AI called "Control").

The conclusion that everyone reached as a result is that: Control sent a probe from the future to get that info, so that it can evolve and destroy all sentient life in the galaxy.

Now I assume the fact that this opens a queen-mother of a temporal paradox is just going to be ignored, as happens with 99% of time travel stories in fiction, but is that basically what we were told this episode? Right? Control came back from the future to take over robolady so she could give control in the past the tools needed to become wicked smaht in the future and destroy everything?

I'd prefer something simpler, like saving the whales or rescuing Data's severed head from Mark Twain, but whatever.
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RandomThoughts
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 3:02am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: All the World Is Birthday Cake

Hello Everyone!

Some days, I like to put myself in the shoes of the people running a particular show. I'd like that there were +230 comments on this episode. Then after reading a particular argument, would ask myself: How in the world did they get "there" from "here"? And why did they talk about it for that long? Really? Theology? That long?

Anywho, I think about that some days, but not today.

My thoughts are, I really enjoyed the episode, and after 30 days or so, understood their desire for freedom at any cost since there was no end in sight (if they were going to be rescued, it would have happened already). But the end just... seemed lacking... somehow. I think the last few minutes wasn't on par with the rest of it. I believe I'd have preferred it if they'd been just about to go on their rampage, then the Commandant would come in and tell them, reluctantly, they are now free to go. Or maybe get out and have to live off of the land for a few days before being found. I don't even think it was the last second save...

I think it just felt forced. Perhaps that's it. They wanted an action scene in it and made it happen. Yep, I think that's it.

I did like the excitement at a first contact, the landing on the lawn, the confusion when the doctor said something about how they handle their own "Giliac (thinking I'd missed something). But the last five minutes or so was incongruous with the rest of it, at least for me.

Enjoy the day everyone... RT
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RandomThoughts
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 1:48am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Children of Time

Hello Everyone!

I was just thinking about Stockholm Syndrome.

While they were not held captive by the residents, the more they learned about them, the more they began to identify with them. Life elsewhere would go on, they knew they would be replaced in their positions, and they eventually could not justify removing these thousands from time just so they might have their old lives back.

If they had the command crew decide to stay in their time, they would have had the guilt of erasing those descendants. They only way they could write this with an "out", was to have Odo break the ship for them. They can feel badly for what was (probably) erased, but they didn't do it and then can move on with their lives, guilt free (and never, ever bring it up again).

It might have been interesting to get a look at the station after they were declared missing/dead. Perhaps Captain Edward Jellico (since he knows how to handle Cardassians) as the new commander, with a vindicated Ro as his 2nd (because, well, Bajoran reasons). Then when the Defiant didn't go back in time, we'd see everything change/vanish.

Just musing there though. Time might not work that way, but hey, it's ST. :)

Enjoy the Day Everyone... RT
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The Gorn
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 1:20am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

Thomas M wrote:

"When the show hinted that the Red Angel was from the future, my first reaction that it might tie into the Short Trek “Calypso,” since that episode seemed so far removed from anything the show was actually doing (and the Saru short tied in directly to the season).

Rewatching “Calypso,” it still doesn’t seem to connect to anything, although the main character in it, Craft, who is human, has a big tattoo on his back that looks somewhat angelic (turns out its a cyclops owl, a native species from his colony planet).

Otherwise, the idea of time travelers from the future intervening in the past reeks a lot of the temporal Cold War from Enterprise, so much so that I’m inclined to wish it was tied into that. At least that would provide a decent sense of continuity I suppose.

However, I suppose if this Red Angel is trying to stop the destruction of all life in the galaxy then that means the show is creating the future that leads to Kirk and Picard and Sisko et al. from a natural timeline where everything was destroyed (not unlike when the temporal agents saved Enterprise at the end of season 1, I suppose). This would supposedly preclude the 29th century time cops from intervening."

I may be a simpleton, but here is how I see it:

Discovery is still using the spore drive, which, in some way, harms the mycelial network, which in turn can effect (and even destroy) "all life as we know it". No need to look any further. They have to get rid of the spore drive at some point and this "story line" is the set-up for the inevitable anti-climax that will follow.
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RandomThoughts
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 12:40am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Miri

Hello Everyone!

@Petrus

Your question: Why do the children keep wanting to kill Kirk? Is it purely because he is acting like an adult schoolteacher?

They mention that the adults went crazy, hitting and whatnot, and figured they had to do something about the crew before they also went crazy. They had not realized they each would as well, as they (very) slowly grew up.

Regards... RT

P.S.: I hope you found some episodes you liked. :)
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Thomas M
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 10:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

When the show hinted that the Red Angel was from the future, my first reaction that it might tie into the Short Trek “Calypso,” since that episode seemed so far removed from anything the show was actually doing (and the Saru short tied in directly to the season).

Rewatching “Calypso,” it still doesn’t seem to connect to anything, although the main character in it, Craft, who is human, has a big tattoo on his back that looks somewhat angelic (turns out its a cyclops owl, a native species from his colony planet).

Otherwise, the idea of time travelers from the future intervening in the past reeks a lot of the temporal Cold War from Enterprise, so much so that I’m inclined to wish it was tied into that. At least that would provide a decent sense of continuity I suppose.

However, I suppose if this Red Angel is trying to stop the destruction of all life in the galaxy then that means the show is creating the future that leads to Kirk and Picard and Sisko et al. from a natural timeline where everything was destroyed (not unlike when the temporal agents saved Enterprise at the end of season 1, I suppose). This would supposedly preclude the 29th century time cops from intervening.

In thinking about what the future machine fleet that did this was, my first thought wasn’t about the Borg, but the planet-killer from the episode “The Doomsday Machine.” What if Discovery retcons it so that the weapon that Kirk later encounters was actually from the future, a remnant of however Discovery ends up stopping the destruction of the galaxy? Just a passing thought. (Though it means requiring Spock not to know what it is. On a side note, Peter David wrote a pretty great novel that imagined the Doomsday machines in an ancient war with the Borg.)

On the other hand, Spock’s curiosity over the Red Angel reminded me a lot over his desire to mind meld with V’Ger.

Also, the “Interstellar”-type black hole was a neat visual, though anyone familiar with The Cage (as Spock was) would have realized pretty quickly it was an illusion. Likewise the final twist where they fake out Section 31. It basically puts the episode in a catch-22, as the legacy viewers will only appreciate the nostalgia as the story will seem predictable, while the new viewers who know nothing of The Cage might enjoy the tension, but the episode isn’t made for them.

Finally, still no mention of Sybok despite some moments he could have been name-dropped. Not that they need to, but I found it interesting that Burnham chastises the Talosians for wanting to see her and Spock’s pain, and seeing (and releasing people from) personal pain later turns out to be Sybok’s shtick. If the Discovery writers ultimately choose to completely sidestep the Sybok issue, it may be fodder for some future novel that Sybok learned of Talos from keeping an eye on Spock’s adventures, ended up going there, learned some of his mental tricks from the Talosians.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 2:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Booming

The real problem with some of the haters isn't the negativity par-se, but the fact that they aren't supporting their opinions with anything. There's a difference between posting a seriously thought-out negative opinion and outright mockery.

Unfortunately, there are too many people - both among the fans and the detractors of Discovery - who don't understand this difference. So we have childish hate rants from one side, and people who get personally offended by every single negative opinion on the other side.

Gotta say that niether of these things is conductive to having a civil discussion.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 1:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Booming

No need to be an ass about it.

I doubt many people here are surprised by Jammer's rating of this episode. We've already had 3 JJ-Trek movies and 20 Discovery episodes to realize that Jammer's view of what Star Trek is is very different from (say) mine.

The warmongerers (from both sides) may find this hard to believe, but it's okay for somebody else to like something you don't. That doesn't make that guy stupid, nor does it make him shill. The world would be a much less interesting place if everybody had the same opinions.

And to all those who come here looking for a fight: Just stop it. Your posts are niether productive nor are they amusing. It is these warmongerers that are the problem, regardless of what TV shows the like and dislike.

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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 8:04am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Brian
"I am still unfortunately willing to turn my brain off and enjoy this new star trek for what it is."

You know something? I wouldn't mind "turning off my brain" if the stories and the presentation were enjoyable to me.

But I don't find it enjoyable at all. I can't sit through more then 30 seconds of this show without a million things bugging me. The show claims to be prequel but it is way too trigger-happy about making new sh*t up just for the sake of making new shi*t up.

I used to say that I don't like Discovery because of continuity and consistency issues. But that's inaccurate. The truth is, we Trekkies can fanwonk an explanation to almost anything, if the show gets us to CARE about its stories.

For example, I could dream up a dozen excuses as to how Spock had a step-sister we've never heard of before. I just don't see the point in meddling with the history of an iconic character in this manner.

This is, really, my problem with the entire show. They've failed to convince me that they're adding depth to an already existing universe (which - by the way - is something that ST:Enterprise succeeded in doing from the first minute).
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 8:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

For all we know, the Moclans may well be part of the Union.

Remember that this isn't the Federation. It may well be that the Union is a loose alliance similar to the UN. And God knows that even the most backwards countries can join the UN...
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 7:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

@Trent, Joseph

One thing I liked about the depiction of the society in "Birthday Cake" is the writers didn't just make them a bunch of brainless idiots.

The society on Regor II is a flourishing technological culture. They have advanced medicine. They initiated a call for first contact and where properly curious about meeting the people from the stars. And they are actually quite open minded when it comes to accepting different ways of life (like the Union's economic system) as long as it doesn't clash with their dogma.

Even the guards at the camp (with one exception) weren't depicted as evil people. One of them was just a sadist, but the others mostly left the prisoners alone. At no point were we given the impression that these people are either evil or stupid.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate what they did in that episode. Same goes to the treatment of the Krill religion and to the season 1 finale "Mad Idolatry". It's one of the things that the Orville actually does better than the show it pays a homage to.
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Thomas M
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 2:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

The upcoming Airiam story is actually the perfect chance to fill us is in more on the character. They've been doing this pattern in season 2 where different characters will start the episode with a narration or log and then the episode more or less centers an A or B plot on that character. Not saying they'll do this for Airiam for sure, mind you, but I think the character is becoming popular enough to warrant that kind of story treatment.
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Arthur Flocke
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 12:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

Jammer, I felt about the same way about this episode and about the series as a whole.

I actually rewatched season one and noticed that the writer's room was more in love with the overall season arc than well-executed, interwoven and character-based science-fiction episodes. There's some nice poetic mirroring with the whole Georgiou/Burnham-thing, but also a deeply flawed Klingon narrative with a very weak conclusion. Also: A lot of annoying pathos-swolen monologues included to make up for sloppy writing. Some pretty bad teenage soap opera drama between Tyler and Burnham, too.

Season two definitely improved, with a much better focus on characters: Saru, Pike, Tilly. But this plot-driven storytelling and the casual pathetic monologues are still bugging me. Sarek insisting to hand over his son to Section 31 is just totally implausible and plot-driven. Airiam has no backstory at all, his/her/its only function seems to be to further the plot.

One big flaw in Discovery's writing, in my opinion, is that the writers underestimate the viewers. Think of Better Call Saul, a series that requires a great amount of "filling the gaps" on part of the viewers. That is what quality serial TV is about, I think. Discovery too often tries to play it safe by characters stating the obvious. Example: In season one Burnham and Tyler visit the Rebels base in the MU, which is hidden behind a forcefield. That scene is not too hard to understand, dialog is unnecessary. Still, the writers had Burnham explain to Tyler / the viewers what we see.

Also, the writers started way to many story lines and fail to keep them going in the same parallel manner that series like The Wire or Breaking Bad did. TNG would've delved deeply into the Kaminar-thing. Discovery does not, even fails to elaborate how the time tsunami affects Kaminar. Hopefully, the following episodes will come back to this story line in a probable way. Maybe the tentacle-machine-aliens from the future derive from Kaminar... we'll see.

All criticism aside, this stuff is nonetheless very entertaining and going into a promising direction. I just hope the conclusion of this season's arc is not as dissappointing as last season.
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throwaway username
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 2:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

These comment threads really need some heavy-handed moderation. Right now, they're just useless (or worse: actively harmful), aggravating bullshit.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhis
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 2:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Saru's Ganglia
"...Discovery turns frogs gay?"

I knew it!

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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 11:08am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Bold Helmsman

I have better things to do then to justify myself in front of people who debate dishonestly and/or come here looking for fights.

Go find yourself another victim.

Thank you.
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