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Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 12:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S7: Strange Bedfellows


That's the point. Do you really think those pastors of megachurches with their private jets and mansions have a "lifetime of belief and conviction" in anything other than their own self-importance?

She lied to herself so well she truly believed she meant well.

This was the episode she finally was true to herself, but then went right back into denial. She's only doing it for the good of all.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 6:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Alice

Usually I think y'all come down on shows too hard, but yeah, this one really is a two point fiver.

But I will give three point five to the actual ship design after Tom cleaned it up. That was pretty cool looking. I like ships, so a bump just for that.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 11:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Barge of the Dead

I am definitely floating in the middle between two very different reactions to the episode, thinking both the lovers and detractors are going overboard.

I think Jammer and the lovers definitely overrate the goings on in this episode with four stars. To me, it was too ambiguous for that. A true classic ought to be more universally understood. Something with this many unanswered questions and confusion just can't go the full 4-stars with me.

But I also don't get the full-on boredom and hate. There are a lot of interesting moments and thoughts here. The visceral reaction to the religion/afterlife themes are odd to me, too. Those themes are fine for exploration to me.

I'm like a strong 2.5 stars or weak 3 stars here, seeing the value in the acting, the production and the premise, but it's definitely no Top 10 Voyager for me.
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Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 1:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: I, Borg

I think we need to first question whether individuality has a basis in reality in the first place, or it just a learned concept. If you zoom out and look at the planet sped-up over the past million years, it's going to appear an awful lot like an ant colony. Wars, new settlements, mass migrations. Just because we think we have thoughts and desires which are our own doesn't make it true. You only need to look at a child growing up to see we learn what we want first through identical biological needs, then parents and schooling, then peer pressure and mass media.

If we're really just plucking ideas from out of a shared idea-space, I don't know what it means to have an individual will: just like two identical radios picking up different stations doesn't make them different from each other.
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Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:45am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: I, Borg

"because when you think about it logically, a true collective consciousness would be a chaotic mess."

Depends on whether the collective consciousness knows it is a collective consciousness. If it doesn't, and believes there are separate individuals with conflicting wills, then it's a chaotic mess. If it does, it simply operates as a harmonious unitary organism.
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Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 2:50am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: Justice

i couldn't help but think this episode was a critique of the bible. Edo is explicitly Eden, and the FFB is an analogue for the Tree of Knowledge: it looks inconspicuous and nobody can tell why it's wrong to go near it, but the superior being has deemed it so without explanation.

The "punishment for everything is death" also seemed like a reference to Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death [...]" -- you know, sin in general, not just specific super bad sins. So the fact that it was so didn't bother me because he looked like this was what the show was going to challenge...

... except it didn't. They just took it for granted and tried to work within that law. Fine, whatever. But I wasn't insulted by this episode as much as I was by Code of Honor.

Also I have a problem with jammer's quip about people of Edo not working. Again this plane is clearly an analogue of Eden. If there are no conflicts and they can share the resources the planet (or their god) provides without problems, why would they work?

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Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 11:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: The Crossing

I too found this episode disappointing.

1. I feel that Archer jumped way too quickly to hostility. He has shown more patience with Klingons and Andorians that actually wanted humans dead. Than he did with these beings that just wanted to survive. He made no effort to communicate diplomatically with these beings. They seemed to just be enemies to Archer right from the get go.

2. Even though the beings did have an ulterior motive, the fact that no philosophical thought was given to how the Wisp's "possession" of the crew could have just been how they engage in "cultural exchange". One again, the trap of only thinking in human terms, kind of fails in any star trek setting when it comes to new experiences.

3. The end. The fact that the episode ends in genocide of these beings with no reflection, no consequences, and no future ramifications is inexcusable. I understand this is very early in Starfleet history, before the Prime Directive, but they claimed to be beyond things like genocide.

I would actually debate this being self defense. Because Archer offered no diplomacy. The idea of trying to help them fix their ship wasn't even explored. They just jumped right to "kill them all".

TBH that alone should have justified Vulcan's concerns and ended the Enterprise's mission. But nope. They just end hundreds of lives and go on as they do. Inexcusable and a disgrace.
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Neo the Beagle
Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 3:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Two Days and Two Nights

Perhaps the best Porthos episode ever! Lots of good screen time. I give it 4 Paws and a waggy tail!
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Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 4:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: United

@Fire: In relationship to the Enterprise coasting slowly into the frame and beaming up Tucker and Reed. I don't know why you have to make it personal. You could have had your 2 cents without being insulting...
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Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 3:47am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

"but it is not Star Trek"

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Neo the Beagle
Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 1:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: The Changeling

Anyone notice the 4 episodes in a row that puts Scotty thru hell?
Last week : Apollo backhanding Scotty (enough to appreciate the stunt work involved, btw) several feet, having his arm paralyzed, and of course having his phaser zapped when he drew it, injuring his hand.
Apollo almost killed him.
This week: Now it's Nomad's turn: NOMAD kills Scotty! Sorry for that spoiler alert. But he comes back to life! Sorry for that spoiler alert also.
Next week: no chance to rest, as Scotty is under extreme pressure in the Mirror Universe, with death a certainty if he fails
Finally: Scotty gets fired by Kirk because Scotty can't find a way to counteract Vaal in "The Apple",
thus dooming the Enterprise to a fiery disintegration.
As the Enterprise starts to burn up in the atmosphere, Scotty probably had second thoughts about not taking that vacation last month that he had coming....
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Neo the Beagle
Tue, Sep 8, 2020, 7:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Alternative Factor

At some point, someone should have read this script and screamed: KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL!
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Theta Sigma
Mon, Sep 7, 2020, 5:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: Jammer Goes to L.A.: Day 2

Contrary to the people who commented 11 years ago, I've enjoyed this little travelogue, for some reason, hearing about how people were spending a few days of their lives 20 years ago gives me a nice feeling. Your pitches were pretty interesting to hear about, I feel like they could have been really good if they were made... in an alternate universe where Voyager was an above-average show that used ideas well.
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Fri, Sep 4, 2020, 3:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

Maybe it would be helpful - and I'm just trying to find territory both parties can agree upon here - to point out to Cody B that it is not unheard of for a straight person to consent to gay sex. Sexual identities are not set in stone. If I'm straight and I've consented to sex with a same-sex partner according to the legal requirements, I wouldn't be able to bring a civil or criminal action for rape in a US court just because I've defined myself as straight and have regrets about what I did.
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Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 2:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

And what irony is that?

Please, do tell.
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Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 1:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

"I once searched for the word sodom in your posts and found them in two or three of your posts but I only read the sentences in which you used that homophobic slur, not the entire posts."

Which is why you completely missed Cody's point.

Had you read his entire posts, you would have realized that:

1. Cody was specifically talking about a non-consensual act.
2. Cody specifically mentioned the fact that the target of your "fantasy" (which was nothing more than a cheap provocation) is straight, which is why is calls it a non-consensual act.
3. Cody's use of the word "sodomy" was clearly referring to the fact that the act was non-consensual.

At no point did he use the word "sodomize" to describe a consensual act between two consenting adults.

So honestly, I don't see anything wrong with his view here.

Sure, people do all sort of strange things for their sexual pleasure. There's also the bondage crowd. Nothing wrong with that, if both sides are consenting. Yet if I said "I'd really like to tie Chakotay to a post and beat him with a whip" then everybody here would have agreed that this is a violent fantasy.

Nobody would say "Hey! You don't *know* that Chakotay doesn't like getting beaten up for his own sexual pleasure". No. That would just be silly.

So how a fantasy of fisting a straight man any different?

And I'll tell you another thing:

I, too, searched for the string "sodom" in Cody's past comments. And you know what I found? He used that word in exactly two posts, both of them in response to your own provocation. He never used the word elsewhere. And he never used the word, even once, to describe a consensual act between two gay men.

(In my opinion there *is* a slight homophobic vibe in Cody's comments, but it has nothing to do with his general argument which is 100% sound)
"Of all the stupid arguments on this site, this one is the most toxic and unreadable. There is not even any content being fought about, it's just a bunch of people trying to slap each other."
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Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 12:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

"Well, no Nancy Drew. I only read your last three posts. I once searched for the word sodom in your posts and found them in two or three of your posts but I only read the sentences in which you used that homophobic slur, not the entire posts.

Are you still nazi-curious?
What do you think about Jews in US media?
a) too many
b) far too many
c) feels like a suburb of Jerusalem
d) all of the above times a million "

And what about you, Booming?

What do you think about (say) religious people.
a) too many
b) far too many
c) They are stupid
d) They are bigots
e) They are a terrible excuses for a human being
f) all of the above times a million

No, don't bother to answer.

I'm just showing you how easy it is to do this kind of cr*p.

Really, this kind of rhetoric says far more about you then it says about the person you're askng.

"Of all the stupid arguments on this site, this one is the most toxic and unreadable. There is not even any content being fought about, it's just a bunch of people trying to slap each other."
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Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 12:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture


The world isn't neatly divided to "racists" and "not racists", or "homophobic" and "not homophobic".

Yes, Cody's remark was a bit homophobic. Emphasis on "a bit". We all have our blind spots. And naturally, we are not aware of those blind spots. Just because somebody has a bit of prejudice against something, does not turn him into a Nazi or KKK supporter.

At any rate, that being said:

If the thing that bugs you most about this thread is Cody's slightly homophobic vibe, then you have a serious problem.

There's Cody's blind spot, which is mostly harmless and definitely due to ignorance.

And then there's this organized attack-by-provocation that we've seen here, where people resorted to rape jokes, twisting words and outright lies to demonize a fellow poster as some kind of nasty bigot.

So congratulations! Booming, Trent, Elliott... you've managed to prove that Cody is a fallible human being. A person who (oh, the horror!!!!) is not aware of their own blind spots, and (oh, the double horror!!!!) gets defensive when being attacked.

Way to go, team!

I just have one question for you three:

If Cody's own comment reveals him to be a terrible bigot, what does your own actions reveal about yourselves?

I'll end by repeating Peter's words:

"Of all the stupid arguments on this site, this one is the most toxic and unreadable. There is not even any content being fought about, it's just a bunch of people trying to slap each other."
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Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Wait... What? Knowledge of a giant koala?

I ain't gonna lie: you managed to grab my interest.
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Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

And to everybody else:

I apologize for momentarily derailing this thread (I sure wish there was a private messaging option here at JammersReview).

Now let's go back to our regular program.
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Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

You haven't pointed out anything, least of all anything "obvious".

You've made bold assertions which were meant to paint me in a ridiculous light, and completely failed to back those assertions up with any kind of evidence.

How did you get from the comment I've written here to "bitching about the radical left"?

What group, exactly, are you referring to, when you wrote "your side"?

And then there's this awful sarcastic remark:

"And of course MLK, Star Trek and the very concept of humanistic compassion itself are all on your side, all the time."

What an ugly and cynical misrepresentation of where I'm coming from. Jesus.

My suggestion to you:

Let it go. Nobody here is going to be impressed by your continued attempts of discrediting and trivializing the contents of another poster. In the long run, the only person you're going to discredit with such tactics is yourself.

Meanwhile, feel free to join the actual discussion, on this thread or elsewhere.

Just remember: Most of us are *not* interested in turning every discussion into a political battlefield. Even when talking about current events, there are many other perspectives to consider beyond the narrow "left vs right" thing that's consuming every other discussion on the internet.
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Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 12:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Child's Play

One of the reasons I'll never view Picard as canon.

Itchy did not end his life like that. No. F***-ing. Way.

And this Voyager episode makes it even worse: Our heros snatched the kid from certain death in the last moment, just for *that* to happen? Screw Picard indeed.

(cue in all the guys who'll come to lecture that we gotta accept "reality" and it's not our decision... when we're talking about a fictional TV show)
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Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 12:03am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars


There's absolutely no connection between my comment and your rant.

Seems like the only person in this thread who is trying to turn this discussion into yet another political quagmire is you. Maybe not intentionally, but by interpreting my comment as some kind of one-note silly political thing, that's what you're doing.

And I'm not going to bite.

I also respectfully ask anybody else whose fingers itch to respond with a political-slanted rant to either me or Sen-Sors: Please don't. We've already covered the political angle three times (at least) which is probably two times too many.
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Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 1:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S1: Bastille Day

Humane treating of prisoners? Sounds like a Trekkish value for me.

Not sure how this is related to "the crazy left wing people", many of which don't seem to be interested in being "humane" towards anyone right now.

And before somebody wants to accuse me of starting another political mud-fight:

My entire point here is that the humanist values of compassion are beyond politics. And that people's actions and views should be judged by what they really are, rather then the specific spot on the political map they occupy.
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Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 12:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

This episode tells it like it is. It's brutal, but reality was brutal (and in many ways it still is).

As for "sweeping the issue under the carpet", I don't see how what's currently going on is any better. The main problem remains the same: The actual issues are niether dealt with or discussed intelligently.

The current mayhem isn't solving anything. It doesen't actually DEAL with any racial issue. It's just people going crazy, vandalizing, and - recently - even killing one another.

And to make things worse: Those who try to talk reasonably about the situation and what can be done to improve it, are precisely those who are attacked and silenced and condemned as "racist".

May this excellent DS9 epsiode serve as a reminder, for what the actual issues really are.
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