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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 5:35am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

To each their own.

I thought tos TNG and Ent had the most consistent and best first seasons. All three did a great job introducing their respective century and setting and introducing new races. The casts immediately clicked with me

Tos is a solid season but it is a tad uneven. Some good episodes and some not so good episodes

I like TNG best cause I enjoyed more episodes, the sense of awe and wonder, the action adventure mixed with high concept sci fi

I enjoyed Naked Now, Datalore , when the bough breaks, last outpost, where no one has gone before, the neutral zone, conspiracy, heart of glory, coming of age, 1100101. Even the lesser episodes I find watchable even code of honor. The only true weak episodes I thought there were big goodbye and we will always have paris bI won’t go into why I like these episodes. I commented in detail why in their respective episode threads

For all the bashing ENT takes I find it had the right idea and tone in season one. And more of a confidence in what it was doing than voyager or DS9 or Kurtzman “trek”. It told simple standalone stories from the perspective of a novice crew experiencing what other crews saw as commonplace. The stories were simple. Some recycled. But held my attention and were entertaining—broken bow, fight or flight, Andorian incident, civilization, breaking the ice, cold fromt, fortunate son, dear doctor, shuttlepod one, detained, acquisition, fallen hero. I appreciated that things were small and intimate. The most epic it got was with the Temporal Cold War. While TcW would lose its center here it was at its most eerie and intriguing. I think of they kept doing this in season two but punched up the plot and introduced more ToS aliens even as just aliens of the week like on TNG it wouldn’t have gone off the rails as it did

Up until discovery and PIC I thought ds9 was worst freshman season Ds9 relied way too much on TNG speaking as a TNG fan. A lot of stories were awful and could barely sit through—the storyteller, the forsaken, battle lines, of wishes were horses, q-less, move along home, personae etc

I do finding myself enjoying it more now than originally and in retrospective its first season truly felt faithful to the idea of an outpost on the unexplored wild frontier. After the first season it felt like Ds9 was in the middle of well explored space surrounded by well knowns. It did have some good standalones in the vein of TNG—the passengee, Babel, a man alone, past prologue, dax, vortex, and its season finale was strong and made the bajorans and prophets very mysterious and alien. Sadly as the series went on that mystique was lost which was a disappointment

Voyager was mediocre. It had an excellent pilot. One of the best trek episodes ever. But then that sense of wonder and strangeness was rarely experienced rest of the season. Lot of mediocre episodes like the cloud, Jetrel, learning curve to name a few. I will say the ensemble and the characters were at their best here before everyone but janeway seven and the Doctor had their characters assassinated or reduce to cyphers

There were some good episodes like the phage, time and again, state of flux,, faces. And I thought the Vidiians was one of the best new trek races conceived. But in season ones favor, due to Michael
Piller being involved it and season two felt the most trek like of voyagers seasons which was a good thing even of writing hit or miss

Discovery was just a hot mess. Unlikeable characters, convoluted storyline, dramatically flaccid klingon war. Mediocre payoff

Picard started out with some promise but by the end all the good elements introduced in the beginning were squandered in such a criminal fashion, the Borg, a possible tie between Borg origin and Romulans, Seven of Nine. Hugh treated like a plot device unceremoniously killed off by the demands of needing a shocking demise. An abrupt and underwhelming season finale which couldn’t make up its mind whether it wanted to say something about the essential ness of mortality and dying via Data’s death scene only to be undermined by a most un Picard like decision to chest death in an artificial body. Totally gutting whatever point the writers were trying to make as well as wasting what could have been a series spanning arc surrounding Picard’s final days years and saying goodbye to those in his life along the way ievTNG cameos
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 7:34am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Best to worst
TNG
TOS
ENT
VOY
DS9



PIC
DIS
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Startrekwatcher
Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 6:49am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You

Whatever promise there may or may not be in furst episode or two. This season will implode just like Picard and the first two seasons did It will be a bit convoluted mess. Mystery box initially draws you in with what happened to the Federation, will thriw in dome gratuitous excessive namedropping that really isn’t brought in in an organic way (as opposed to organic es the Reeves-Stevenses did in the ENT Vulcan trilogy

It’ll be fast paced. Michael will be only character focused on. With a lukewarm forced romance she will have but no will care about.

Afterall these are the same writers. Why expect some change fromThe tepid writing style. It’s amazing how Stidios will guve huge amounts of money to hacks who waste it on make up, costumes VFX to glam up mediocre series. Michael Piller did more with less and had to produce 26 hours season after season yet produced a consistently entertaining series with TNG. Or the old vanguard with TOS

But producers/writers these days have to do half as many episodes with far less time restrainys s and a whole lotta money and consistently turn iyt nice looking crap
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 6:33am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I don’t know why people are arguing. All of Trek with Abrams and Kurtzman has been utter shit. Incoherent. ADD pacing, laying on gratuitous namedropping with no subtlety or organic integration to story itself, convoluted storytelling, low brow humor.

Even at its worst VOYAGER and ENT were light years ahead of PIC, LD, DiS
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Startrekwatcher
Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Tomalak, I felt season six was when the shoe first started showing its age

Michael Piller left jeri Taylor in charge who was a weak showrunner(look at TNG season six, seven and voyager tail end of season 1 and start of season
2, then season 3)

Season six decreased the number of outside story ideas and scripts leading to what I would consider a bad thing

The season felt like it loss the urgency and sense of purpose it had in the prior five seasons. Even the actors felt like they had gotten too comfortable and it hurt the show

I thought the number of bad episodes went up dramatically-fluff like Fistiful of Datas, Rightful Heir, Realm of Fear, True Q, Lessons, , the Birthright two parter to name a few

It just felt very different and whenever I do a rewatch I find myself skipping more episodes
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Startrekwatcher
Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:35am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I haven’t watched nor intend to watch Lower decks it’s probably as shitty as DIS and PIC but I just wanted to step in and defend the first season of TNG. I think it’s vastly underrated.

It has a wonderful sense of the unknown and exploration. It does a good job of introducing and giving the audience a feel for the 24th century There’s a lot of good to great episodes—conspiracy, the neutral zone, Datalore, 1101001, arsenal of freedom, skin of evil, last outpost, naked now, heart of glory, home soil.

I think people are far too hard on it. I think season two is weaker but I do find I enjoy seasons 1-5 the best overall and have the largest concentration of highly rewatchable and entertaining episodes
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 9:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Unimatrix Zero, Part II

Just to counter some nitpicks Jammer has

The virus they released was a Borg computer program as evidenced by the graphics in sickbay in part I. So I do t have an issue that a borg program could be released undetected or unchallenged I also assume for Torres to be able to have it on Her person it just have been stored in some Borg tech implanted in her before going on the mission

As far as Tuvok. Yes you’d think he would be last person to succumb to the collective give. His mental discipline but you also have to remember Vulcans are telepaths so I’m sure that made him
More susceptible to the collective
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 9:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Revolution, Andromeda and helix weren’t good either

I know some people love The Orville but for all the talk of it being an love letter to TNG-which is my favorite Trek series and may be my favorite show period-I find it to be an insult to TNG. To riff on a famous quote—I know TNG and the Orville is no TNG. The writing is bad. The humor is low brow and cringeworthy
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 9:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I watched the first season of The Expanse and wasn’t much feeling it

Honestly I’ve not been impressed by most sff since this for last 20 years

Most of it follows the mystery box format which I can’t stand and just fails miserably at holding my attention—Vanished,Daybreak, Surface, Twelve Monkeys, Invasion, The 4400, Under the Dome, The Event, Fringe, Flash Forward, manifest, V 2.0, westworld , Star Trek discovery, Star Trek picard

The rest wasn’t very good either-star gate Atlantis, painkiller jane, the lost room miniseries , flashGordon reboot, Caprica, humans, the x files reboot, ascension miniseries

About the only ones I’d recommend as far as sff would be Jericho, sarah Connor chronicles, supernatural seasons 1-5 only, NuBSG’s first season and portions of season two, Enterprise season 1(really underrated) the xindi arc and season four. And Lost even though the mystery box format needs to go away permanently at least here it was fresh and seasons 1 and 3-5 were pretty entertaining
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 11:57am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I thought Orville was awful. Dumb corny. Frankly I’m
Pretty unimpressed with contemporary sci fi. It’s just dumb or recycled or unnecessarily convoluted.

I’ve been rewatching 90s Trek, the X-Files, the better seasons of nuBSG and those were good sci fi series. Consistent. Well written. Nice balance of character and plot. You could tell those writers had actually lived and infused in their writing human truths and relateable nuggets. Even more interesting was they had tighter deadlines, much smaller budgets and had to come up with 26 episodes a season and did better than kurtzman or other writers nowadays with half that many episodes and twice or three times the budgets
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Startrekwatcher
Fri, May 22, 2020, 12:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I agree Trek should get back to basics. A starship having weekly standalone adventures. Jeopardy. Sci fi plot

I’m so tired of these season long mystery box arcs. It’s lazy writing.

Next fire Kurtzman and all the current hacks on the writing staff ie everyone

Make new writers watch TOS and TNG and remember why those episodes were fun, interesting, involving and entertaining. Teach them about a beginning middle and end

Let them know it’s okay to let a scene breathe
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Startrekwatcher
Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 8:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: I, Borg

Star Trek Picard didn’t do anything interesting with element from this episode or Descent. They could have but mainly just used Hugh as a familiar face and nothing more than a gratuitous prop. He was totally wasted on PIC. I’m going to pretend PIC never happened in my personal canon
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Startrekwatcher
Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 12:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I’ve rewatched over last 30 years all of TNG Ds9 voyager episodes at least 30 times. I never tire of them. Even the ones I’m not crazy about carry a certain nostalgia. I’ve rewatched all of ToS and ENT in last 20 years at least a dozen times. I never tire of tos first two seasons or ent’s first season, the xindi arc episodes or season four

I quit DIS in first season and never looked back. First time ever happened with a trek series.

With PIC it was nice getting some new material in the 24th century after two decades without. But truth is while I watched the first season with the exception of the pilot and nepenthe I doubt I’ll ever revisit it. The dangers of writers going all in on a big epic narrative is that if it doesn’t ultimately go anywhere interesting and doesn’t have a satisfying payoff then I don’t care to rewatch it. And PIC let every thread it launched fizzle by the end. I found Absolute Candor, Stardust City Rag, The Inpossible Box, Broken Pieces minus the bits of mythology and exposition provided and the finale to be outright 2 star loser episodes I have no interest in revisiting.
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Startrekwatcher
Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 10:37am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I don’t think going back to episodic format is going to help either DIS or PIC because the fundamentals are what is the problem—the writers and writing

They’ve attended the school of “ADHD and everything including the sink” way of writing. They don’t worry about focusing on a few ideas and developing well. They just jump from one to the next abruptly

They don’t think out a beginning , middle and end.

The only thing having to write standalones will do is force them to come up with an immediate payoff rather than letting it linger til the eleventh hour

I myself would prefer standalones again. They’re more rewatchable than arcs and it allows variety and something new to look forward to each week

And if you look at this season the writers didn’t have ten hours of arc material
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 6:07am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Oh and just remembered some more crappy shows—invasion, the 4400, dollhouse

Jericho and terminator the sarah Connor chronicles weren’t too bad
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 6:03am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

V 2.0 is another one to avoid.

A few months ago I tried B5 I thought it was garbage. Yes it has a well thought out mythology but the mythology itself is really corny. Bad VFX. Uninteresting characters
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 6:00am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Mike

Then you should Also avoid Alcatraz, Wayward Pines, the leftovers and twin peaks 2.0, life on mars, Star Trek
discovery. True blood was a pretty crappy show too.

A lot of these have in common Abrams or Lindelof or Kurtzman all students of the Mystery box and/or artsy pretentiousness—the Leftovers was really bad about this

Supernatural was a pretty decent scary show in the beginning for the first few seasons with self contained overarching season long arcs with standalone format until it veered into meta overkill and camp
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 3:24am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

For all the hype I hear about great sff in last two decades i found most of it convoluted garbage

I’d much rather watch TOS/TNG/DS9 and evenVoyager and ENT, X-Files than a lot of what I’ve heard people talking about

About the only things I would rewatch are Lost S1/4/5, Heroes season one, BSG s1 and some stretches of season three and four

Most of what came out were uninspired convoluted Mystery box shows—vanished, surface, , helix, 12 monkeys, the event, manifest, daybreak, flash forward, fringe, sleepy hollow, the expanse, caprica, blindspot,

I thought dr who was awful Star Gate Atlantis was awful.
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 10:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Golem not hole
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 10:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Even of Brent Spiner had no desire to play Data again they could have still had him be placed in the hole and look just like BrentSpiner sans Data makeup. He could have stayed behind on Coppelius to help his children learn from him all the insights he had about the human race from the years he was in Starfleet and aboard the Enterprise—similar to Odo rejoining the Great Link to help changelings stop fearing solids.

I doubt the writers will ever revisit Coppelius and even if they did Brent could play Data as a human with no need to worry about how he looks

The La Sirena could have flown off into the great depths of space. With Soji part of the crew the android representative sent by Coppelius the android characters is checked off the box

And I still think it was a bad idea to have Pocards Irumodic Syndrome play out in one season. It screams to be one of those series spanning threads. I mean rumors are Patrick Stewart wants to do around three seasons. So gradually over the life of the series we could have witnessed the symptoms start and progress towards a steady decline near the end of the series. And each season in the background could be Picard getting out living checking off things on his Bucket List as far as adventures, planets to visit, old friends likeGeordi or Guinan he wants to see one last time

But no the writers rushed it
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Startrekwatcher
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 11:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

There’s no excuse with the budget they have, the salaries they receive, the prep time they get that they can’t come up with better writing. If the season arc is just a MacGuffin then jettison it and do episodic shows

If the arc has too many elements to do justice to them trim it down and focus only a few and do them justice

I don’t buy this notion it’s alright to have the audience invest in these mysteries or plot threads only to at the 11th hour do and about-face and say it really wasn’t about those things it was always just about this one scene.
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Startrekwatcher
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 11:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I agree with a lot of things Jammer says in his review. The Picard/Data scene is four stars. But I’m not willing to cut the show and writers the kind of slack he is for the poor pacing and uninspired writing in the rest of the hour or the rest of the season.

The Picard/Data scene is just a few minutes long. Kudos for the writers being able to be good writers long enough to script that but the idea that as long as they give us one good scene that it’s okay to meander and provide half-realized ideas and falter on payoffs by giving us one good scene then I strongly strongly disagree.

Good writers should be able to do it all and give us the Picard/Data scene. I’m never going to budge on expecting more from the show
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

And for all the talk about shorter seasons making better television and serialization is better storytelling shows like DIS, PIC and non Trek examples—Manifest, Helix, V 2.0, The Event, Life on Mars, the 4400,Daybreak to name a few show that to be demonstrably to be hogwash I’m sure there are others I’m glossing over that can be added to that list

So for all the talk of more time to write and less grueling production schedules I find that 26 episode seasons and episodic shows under a fast paced schedule worked better and that speaks more to the taker of the writers and show runners back then like Michael Piller

As far as these MysteryBox seasons go the best ones imo were
Heroes S1 which was pretty much a near perfect example of this storytelling format and I might add did so doing 24 episodes
Lost S4/5 again excellent examples of how to do well Mystery Box seasons if you’re absolutely determined to do them

And while the third season of ENT itself was too drawn out and the arc itself could have been told in probably 12 episodes rather than drawing it out to24, id argue the xindi arc was much more interesting, entertaining and compelling as well as creating a much better mythology surrounding the Xindi and sphere builders than the one on PIC with theBorg, Romulans, synthetic alliance. It also resolved its mysteries and threads with pretty strong payoffs and resolutions
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I think the first season of TNG is too easily dismissed

It did a great job of feeling like a successor to TOS in terms of the ship design, uniforms, tech like holodeck, having a klingon serving etc.

It gave insight into the geopolitical state 24th century and what advances had been made. It felt very futuristic with ideas like cured common cold and cancer

It utilized familiar TOS aliens like Klingons and Romulans while creating new interesting aliens of its own with the Bynars, Harada, Conspiracy aliens, Q, Ferengi

It had a wonderful sense of awe and imagination really embracing cool sci fi ideas and fun action adventure

I realize I’m in the minority but I thought there were a lot of good entertaining episodes to be found like Naked Now, Code of Honor, The Last Outpost, 1100101, the Battle, Lonely Among Us, Datalore, Arsenal of Freedom, Conspiracy, Neutral Zone, When the Bough Breaks to name a few. Even the weaker offerings weren’t awful like Angel One, HomeSoil. True TNG didn’t strive to do some epic season long arc. It just set out to tell fun entertaining hour long standalones but bottom line I found them more entertaining

I also thought ENT for all the missteps it would have its first season was pretty solid. I thought pretty much its first 11 episodes were decent along with Dear Doctor and shuttlepod one if not good to great doing a good job conveying a more realistic touch to space exploration

It did wobble in the middle but picked up towards the end with episodes like Detained and Fallen Hero

DS9 relies too much on TNG in season one. The standalones are hit or miss but mostly miss with crap like The Storyteller, Move Along Home,Q-Less, battle lines, if wishes were horses, the forsaken, dramatis personae

There were some good TNG like episodes— Past Prologue, Babel, Dax, , The Passenger, in the hands of the prophets

Then a mediocre stuff like Vortex, The Nagus. That werent bad but just not very engrossing

VOY has the best pilot but then as a series it was pretty much downhill from there. Season ine was definitely a mix bag. The good was most definitely Kate Mulgrew and Janeway. There were some decent outings like Time and Again, Cathexis, Faces, Phage, State of Flux. I enjoyed Seska and the kazon

But there were a lot of underwhelming episodes—Jetrel, learning curve, parallax, ex post facto, the Beowulf Holodeck episode,

The problem with PIC is it had a good start with the first three episodes and introducing plot elements but once they left Earth they left behind the most interesting characters and started dragging things out and when they finally started to get somewhere the payoffs were pretty much bad from theBorg cube Mystery to the alliance of synthetics to the zhat vash resolution. The La Sirena crew did Nothing for me

The sad thing is the shoe has interesting ideas but these writers didn’t know what to do with them in an interesting way

DIS was so bad I couldn’t finish the first season and haven’t watched it since with no regrets only trek series that ever happened with
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

First season rankings best to worst

TNG
ENT
TOS
VOY/DS9
PIC


DIS
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