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Sen-Sors
Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:43am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Enemy Within

I got my girlfriend on a bit of a Star-Trek kick and she called me at midnight all but squealing in glee at the adorable space dog. She called me fifteen minutes later and scolded me for not telling her it ends up dead. She also pointed out that when the space dog is split into two space dogs, they are different breeds. Good eye.
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Sen-Sors
Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:38am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Space Seed

I started seeing someone in the last couple months and I've been threatening to make her watch an episode of Trek. She's a Star Wars girl and said she never had any interest in Trek, but a few weeks ago I managed to sit her down for Space Seed. It's got the quaint, goofy charm that makes TOS one of my favorite series, and it's also got the incredible villain performance from Montelban.

To my surprise, she told me she really liked it. She watched a number of episodes on her own after that. I showed her TNG's "Measure of a Man" because I wanted her to see a non-goofy "serious" ethics problem episode and she liked it, but said "This is just Blade Runner" which I could not deny. She likes TOS better because it makes her laugh more. I think she's a keeper.
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Sen-Sors
Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:29am (UTC -5)
Re: MAND S2: Chapter 16: The Rescue

It's interesting that people say "How will lefties feel when cancel culture is turned around on them" because that scenario describes most of the 20th century, at least in the US. Cancel culture wasn't invented by Twitter lefties, it's always been with us, often wielded by conservatives. The most extreme example being McCarthyism, but you can see shades of it in the efforts to suppress "subversive" rock/metal/rap music (long hair, tattoos, wiggling hips, NWA and Satan!) and books taught in school like To Kill A Mockingbird. Arguably, church-going conservatives were the OG cancel culture.

How about the Dixie Chicks? In 2003 the country group was one of the biggest acts in the genre, but after they spoke out against the Iraq war the backlash was furious and immediate. Their songs were pulled from the radio, their albums burned en masse in public, and they were bombarded with death threats. Their career was not completely destroyed but they never recovered to their previous status, and all for exercising their right to free speech. Cancel culture run amok, surely.

Colin Kapernick, anyone? I'm sure everyone who here is upset at Carano's firing was equally vocal about his ousting from the NFL, right?

That said, I am not necessarily a big fan of Twitter-style cancel culture. Exposing powerful people as predators and bigots is good, and Twitter gives regular people a voice (and power) in the larger culture that they previously didn't have; but there can be elements of mob-mentality, a refusal to accept apologies or growth from individuals, and just plain blowing things out of proportion. There's a trans lefty Youtuber goes by the name "Contrapoints" who did a great video on her own cancellation by trans Twitter. It's a long video, feature-length, and it's a deep dive into her personal life as well as trans politics within their own community, but she does a good job illustrating how something that began as a tool to hold the powerful accountable can sometimes become quite toxic. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjMPJVmXxV8

I'm just saying cancel culture, for good or ill, has been around for a lot longer than Twitter. And just like Kapernick was picked up by Nike, Carano got a movie deal with Ben Shapiro not even a week after her firing. It's not Disney money, but she is far from being "blackballed" by the whole entertainment industry. I think Jammer got it right when he said you can work for a corporate giant or be a social media firebrand, but you can't be both. Disney doesn't give a damn about equality or trans people or anti-racism or they wouldn't remove Finn from the Chinese Star Wars posters. But here in the US, people with politics like Carano might endanger their revenue stream. They want everyone's money so they can't risk offending anyone. Maybe what we're seeing is that free speech isn't very compatible with the all-important profit motive.
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Sen-Sors
Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

The vibe I get from people who like this show on Twitter and Reddit is that they love how "emotional" it is, they love their superhero Burnham, and the college brochure-style corporate box-checking is just, like, so incredible and important.

I think the STD creators are making exactly what they want: a superhero show thickly layered with bombast and emotion (mostly crying). The dynamic between Saru and Micheal this season is like a microcosm of the show in general; Saru is the most Trek character they have, so he must be pushed aside to make room for the superhero Burnham. Micheal will always save the day, she will always be the center of everything because that is how superhero stories work. Melodrama, bombast, and platitudes: these are the hallmarks of superhero media, and it's also what makes them so insipid and boring- er, I mean, so obscenely popular.
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Sen-Sors
Thu, Jan 7, 2021, 3:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

Micheal is a boy's name.
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 11:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: MAND S2: Chapter 9: The Marshal

Paul M, ayup. I just picked up both games for six bucks on Steam, they're going in my backlog. I always shied away from them based on the turn-based combat but at this point I've played enough Dungeons and Dragons that I can enjoy it.
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 3:56am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Omicron your posts might be more persuasive if they weren't 60% argument and 40% rhetorical preening and posturing. It's like you can't go three sentences without saying "your credibility is dropping by the second" and "how do you expect to have a reasonable conversation with people? Thank you so much for proving all my points!" It's just corny dude. I feel like I'm reading a bargain-bin Ben Shapiro.

And yeah, J.K. Rowling is a known transphobe. She consistently retweets, platforms and engages with people who are transphobes. Having one or two associates or friends with problematic views is not damning, but when you consistently spread anti-trans rhetoric and bad-faith junk-science then that's a problem. Rowling has hundreds of trans and non-binary fans who are desperate to share their stories and experience with her but she is too busy endorsing "sudden-onset gender dysphoria", a theory that is rather hotly contested in mental health circles and not endorsed by any major mental health organization. Surely you can see how the trans-community would take a theory that states their identity is mostly just a fad as a bad faith argument.

You and others keep pushing this idea that medical doctors are eager and incentivized to throw teens onto a conveyor belt to the puberty blocker factory the moment they utter the word "dysphoria". This is also something Rowling harps on and yes it is transphobic because it is not based in reality, it is based in disgust and ignorance. It's been explained to you that this is not at all how that process works but that never seems to stop you from pushing on with it. Yes teenagers are easily influenced and go through phases, yes not all teens who express discomfort with their gender will (or should) end up transitioning. From what I understand from listening to real medical professionals, their role is to guide a vulnerable teen through an identity crisis; perhaps it is just a phase and perhaps it is not. They help them either way; it is not a process that begins with puberty-blockers as the end goal. This is evidenced by the extremely low reported incidents of expressed regret in transitioning referenced by Trent earlier. It is important for teens in that position to have someone to go to for help considering how many families react rather.... poorly to their child coming out as trans or non-binary. This also helps explains why there are more teens coming out as trans and non-binary than in the past; the stigma is lessening.

It's similar to how many claims were made in this thread that society choosing to respect people's preferred pronouns will result in a slippery slope of people being arrested and hauled off to the gulags. It was pointed out that there is no legislation close to this in existence or even in the works and still people here darkly intone that it will happen anyway and I saw a TV show where a nice racist lady got arrested. Whatever.

Maya Forstater lost her job at a think tank whose stated goals are reducing global poverty and inequality. Considering that the trans community has historically experienced inequality through disproportionate harrassment, murder, suicide, homelessness and familial abandonment, I'm not surprised that the CGB took a dim view to being associated with a person who expressed skepticism towards the foundation of transgender identity. I have no problem with her losing her job; comments made on social media are public and there can be consequences if your employer sees them and decides they are incompatible with their organization.

If I'm working as a cashier and my boss finds out I'm participating in KKK rallies on my free time, do you think they would be justified in firing me? What if I'm just expressing my support for the KKK on my Facebook page? Do you think they'd be justified? What if my boss was black? Would you be fighting the good fight on my behalf to spout bigotry in public and be shielded from any and all consequences?

"Thanks again, Trent, for giving us such a vivid demonstration of what the sane (and mostly quiet) majority has to fear."

And that's you, right? That's always you. Trent pointed out that JK Rowling is a transphobe because she is and now you are grasping for victimhood. It's similar to the comment from J-Dogg bemoaning how "everything is transphobic". Trans people aren't the ones being victimized in society, __I__ am being victimized because some people call my views transphobic!

Well. Are they?

Pushing the idea that pronouns lead to gulags and the trans community is hell-bent on converting as many teenagers as possible is indeed transphobic. Saying "I despise trans activists and everything they hate I love" is bizarre as well as transphobic. Trans-activists hate transphobia. Therefore...?

Omicron you say you are not transphobic, and I believe you. You have certainly been peddling transphobic talking points and "being with" JK Rowling is not a good look, but I believe you. It is a messy, confusing topic and ignorance doesn't always equal malice. I think Rowling passed that point awhile back, but whatever.

Trans and non-binary people are slowly becoming less stigmatized. We're seeing them represented on the teevee. They're starting to be included in workplace harassments laws. They are getting more access to medical professionals who are there to guide them through a difficult period when they may have no where else to turn. As a sane person you have nothing to fear from any of this. You are not being victimized by any of this and neither are the children.
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Sen-Sors
Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:47am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Prophet Motive

The episode that opens with Quark's O-face.
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Sen-Sors
Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:34am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Terra Firma, Part 1

God, is the Section 31 show still happening? Are there people looking forward to that?
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Sen-Sors
Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: MAND S2: Chapter 9: The Marshal

My friend tells me that this episode's plot is a beat-for-beat recreation of a quest from the Knights Of The Old Republic games. The player character is tasked with driving off Tusken Raiders from harassing a town on Tatooine, and you can do so by killing the raiders but if you talk to them instead you find out they're being driven from their homeland by a giant sand worm. You can end up uniting the two factions to defeat the worm and you even get the big pearl from doing it. Both of those games take place hundreds of years before the original trilogy and apparently deal extensively with Mandalorian lore. They're done by the people who did Mass Effect. I might just have to finally play them for myself.

Between that and the inclusion of that girl from the Clone Wars show it looks like Favreau is getting alot of mileage out of the extended universe that Disney was so eager to throw out as non-canon.
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 6:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

"Indeed, the claim that no one can be subject to a HRC claim for misgendering is probably the most laughable thing I have ever heard."

In some countries you absolutely can if you do it deliberately and antagonistically. Will there be a rush of bad-faith employees suing their bosses for slipping up once or twice as an honest mistake? Will the courts side with them? I guess time will tell.
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 4:46am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Yeah. I feel bad because I've seen alot of really insightful and well-written discourse about Star Trek on this site, so much that I don't even bother to comment on alot of threads about classic episodes because I couldn't possibly add more to what's been said. But when I look at some of my own posts I feel like sometimes I contribute to political shitstorm tangents that won't age particularly well. Not because I'm not right, because of course I'm right, but you get what I mean.

Then again, one of the biggest strengths of Star Trek is it's ability to deal with real-life issues in a fictional, often-metaphorical framework. It's only natural that long-term discussion of the series will lead to some form of debate about real life political topics. That's not necessarily a bad thing. While I feel like I've said all I have to say about this particular topic, and I think it's important to try and relate discussion to themes pertinent to the episode, I don't feel like it's a grave sin to end up talking about real-life stuff when it's obviously something an episode is focusing on.
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 4:13am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

CAN be powerful things? Fuck!
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 4:11am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

First I want to apologize to Slacker because I am an idiot, you did not ever claim the *SPOILERS* Sticks and Stones series was a documentary series which I clearly misread. I should have double-checked and that's my bad.

Dave, I respect the fact that you're gay and I'm not and you have way more insight into that subject than I do. That said, neither I nor anyone else in this thread has ever called for someone to be hauled into a gulag, even for bigoted language. For the record, I think someone losing their job because of bigot shit is deserved and warranted. I think arresting someone for bigoted language is a bit extreme. But the only example brought forth for that was fictional. The actual laws that have been cited are based in reality.

"It's just words" that's true, but enough words can lead to action, no? Harmful action. Words matter. Some people can brush off words no matter what, especially if they are exposed to horrible words with frequency. That makes them strong, but it doesn't make those more affected by words weak. Do you really not agree that words cannot be powerful things?
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 1:13am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Also fuck, I meant "discussions often take this turn when dominated by binary people".
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 1:12am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Slacker, it was fiction?

OK then.
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Sen-Sors
Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 1:11am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Dave, you brought up alot of things that we weren't actually discussing (slippery slopes, satire, blacklists, what is comedy) but you never answered the question. Do you believe an employer or a co-worker has a __right__ to harass or discriminate against their employee/co-worker over their race/gender/religion/sexual orientation? I'll even leave out the pronoun thing for now. If you believe it is your boss's right to call you a slur at work, I think that's pretty crazy and I'm glad that U.S. hate speech laws do not agree with you. It is but one area that the free market has proven that it cannot be trusted to self-regulate.

"However, I don't believe that an employer should be allowed to be fire someone for something saying unpopular they said off the clock."

"Unpopular" is doing alot of work here, but even so, is that the situation we're talking about? Slacker's post did not make that clear. I read it as the employees having this exchange at the workplace. That's why I asked for a citation.

We're not talking about Twitter cancel culture or "what is comedy?" We're talking about hate speech laws in general and specifically hate speech laws in the workplace. As Trent pointed out, the standards that must be met to actually violate these laws are rather high, and these laws mostly exist to protect people from being abused by people who hold power over them in the workplace, because before these laws were enacted such abuse was common enough to warrant legislation. If your boss finds out you're gay and insults you for it day in and day out, that's fucking illegal. He doesn't have the right to do that. He shouldn't have the right to do that. And no, "you can just quit" is not a satisfactory alternative. Is that really true freedom for you as an employee? Who's got the lion's share of freedom there, you or your shit-heel boss?

Yeah, there's limits on free speech. No, it's not a slippery slope to 1984 because you can't call your employees the gay F-word.

I'd like to point out that discussions about personal pronouns often take this turn when they are dominated by non-binary people. It starts out with a small group saying "hey can you call me this instead of that" and it ends with a whole lot of other people saying "What, now I'm going to get fired and/or arrested if I mess up a stranger's pronouns!?" It's a ridiculous leap and it's based on nothing. There is no legislation that even comes close to that. It's a persecution fantasy. The most famous law that deals with this, Canada's C16, is not there to slap an employer who occasionally misgenders his employee by accident. It's there to slap the employer who is told what their employee's personal preference is and __repeatedly__ and __deliberately__ misgenders them in order to demean them. It adds gender identity to the other protected classes (race, sex etc) in hate speech law. Nothing more, nothing less. You are not being victimized by this.
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Sen-Sors
Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 10:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Slacker, do you believe people's employers and co-workers should have the right to denigrate them based on their race/sex/religion etc. in a workplace setting? If so, why?

Is what she said not that bad because she didn't call him a n***** and she cuddles her kids? Still seems like cut-and-dried racism to me.

If you don't mind I'd like a citation on this docuseries. Trent's post was grounded in facts and law; documentaries can be highly manipulative. I'd be curious to know the details of this incident and/or how UK hate speech laws work.
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Sen-Sors
Thu, Dec 3, 2020, 6:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

@Mertov

I said "characters constantly crying" not just Micheal. It is true that Micheal cries exponentially more than any other Trek character but there's been more than one teary-eyed group-hug scene in this show, which points to the writers believing they can just turn on the waterworks for a cheap, manipulative emotional punch without earning it.

I feel like I did a decent job articulating why I have a problem with this show's reliance on cloying, saccharine moments that are devoid of substance. If some people choose to ignore all that and pin my opinion on simple misogyny then whatever. "You're a man, and you don't like it because they're women." Oh ok.
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Sen-Sors
Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 11:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

Stacy, I'm pretty sure the most prolific poster on this site (Booming) is a woman. Top 3 at least. It's the internet so you never know, but I generally take people at their word.

Micheal isn't a bad character because she's a woman. It's not even because she cries too much, even though she does; you listed four episodes in a row where she cries, and that's far from the total number of times she's cried over 3 seasons. Has any character in Trek even come close? It doesn't bother me because she's a woman or because crying makes me disgusted because "I'm a man." I cry twice a year at least, I don't give a fuck. It bothers me because having characters constantly crying and hugging and affirming the deep bond they've acquired with people who have had almost zero screen time let alone character development is cheap, lazy and insulting. When did Nahn and Micheal ever bond on-screen? What did we learn about the cyborg woman in any episode other than the one where Micheal spaced her while making the face? The problem isn't that the show tries to have moments of great emotion, the problem is that these moments feel so unearned compared to the soaring music.

Micheal isn't bad because SMG a terrible actress. I'm a fan of TWD and she's fine. She's not particularly stand-out in the roles I've seen, but she is competent.

She's just poorly written, and it's because she's the center of the universe for no reason.
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Sen-Sors
Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 7:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Precious Cargo

It must be tough to watch Star Trek if you believe sex between consenting unmarried adults is immoral. There are episodes that deal with "forbidden love" here and there (the gender-neutral race in TNG, Dax's ex in DS9) but getting a permission slip from the church to make love has never been shown to be a priority for any character in any series.
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Sen-Sors
Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

Ha! Captain Burnham. Of course S2-era STD writers would want that. What a mess.
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Sen-Sors
Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 9:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

"BTW, I never saw a vaporization in TNG, just in TOS"

True but I never saw a guy's head explode in TOS, just in TNG. Bring back the Savini setting!
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Sen-Sors
Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 8:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Forget Me Not

"When someone views TOS and sees that there isn't a person of Arab descent, there are no gay people, no trans people, and sees that as a problem, you can't help but think they didn't get that message."

Has anyone actually done that in any of the STD S3 threads? Seems like the bulk of the discussion is on whether or not STD is going "too far" with their diversity casting.
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Sen-Sors
Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 11:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Die Trying

David Cronenberg's best role since Jason X.
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