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Ruth
Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 6:08pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Shadows and Symbols

Sisko basically says the prophets abused his mother and by extension his father, but then he’s smiling happily after learning it. And he doesn’t think his dad’s up to refilling everyone’s wine and chatting in his restaurant but he’s definitely up to being physically dragged through the desert by Jake. (Why couldn’t Sisko find it on foot and the others beam down to his location, anyway?)

The prophets are clearly awful, worse than the Q, and even contaminate whoever they touch. I mean, at least our Q realises he has to have a human woman’s consent if he wants to impregnate her, even if we are lowly linear beings. At this point I’m rooting for the pagh wraiths. When they possessed a woman, which I’m not denying was creepy!, they didn’t make her have sex with someone she hadn’t chosen for years and have a baby with them. Ugh! (Also they have sick fire powers)

This episode also makes me wish Jake/Ezri was a thing, if they were determined to pair her off. They’re closer in age than her and Bashir for starters and I just liked their scenes somehow. The way they resurrected Bashir’s thing for Jadzia just for more drama killing her off has been embarrassing (and besides, we all know he only has eyes for Garak). A brief “oh now I guess we definitely never have a chance” scene with him and Quark mourning her would be fine but they made it as if they’re both so stupid and lovesick they really thought so and had been thinking so for years.
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Ruth
Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Image in the Sand

Kira’s new outfit is awful - not enough for a Major to wear heels, stick all your Colonels in corsets! No wonder they couldn’t repel Cardassia - but her new hair is great in a 90s way.

I loved Jadzia so I’m not excited about mini Jadzia at all. I understand that she’s a counsellor not a science officer but could they not have had her in red or yellow, even for a stupid reason? It’s too much for her to be in blue like her predecessor. That’s aside from her appearing to be Jadzia’s little sister or daughter facially.

I really liked the dynamic between the Romulan woman and Kira. I hope she’s coming back and that they can fix their working relationship but I’m not holding my breath.
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Ruth
Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 7:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Nor the Battle to the Strong

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the reference to The Ship that had all our brave strong battle hardened starfleet officers shitting themselves to the point of forgetting themselves and embarrassing themselves when shelled for a prolonged period of time. There’s a reason it used to be called shell shock. I don’t think that young untrained untested Jake succumbing to it is anything to be ashamed of or surprised about. I don’t see how anyone can’t understand that when both this episode and that recent one explain it to us.

I like Jons’ point that often Bashir is in Jake’s position as the young arrogant guy with no experience but that that’s only in comparison to experienced starfleet officers - but this episode shows that he is really one of them too. He can do things like retrieve the generator off screen and it makes sense to Jake who hasn’t seen him the way we have, but obviously it makes sense to us too really.

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Ruth
Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 5:12am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S4: Rejoined

I liked this episode. Dax and her ex wife had good chemistry - better than with that man she was going to live on the ghost planet with. Susanna Thompson is a good actress, I thought she was a good Borg queen too.

I don’t think anyone mentioned that the stuff about being exiled, the death of the symbiont, only makes partial sense because it’s supposed to be about gay couples not having children. That’s the immortality we non trills access and it’s been an argument against gay marriage and so on. But like in real life there are ways for gay couples to have children, and more for a lesbian couple like in the episode - there are more ways for the symbiont to be given to someone else than officially through the symbiosis commission and we’ve seen two of those ways already in Dax (the one who wasn’t suitable and the one who nicked it off Jadzia temporarily - both of which would be types of people who don’t care if the symbiont is naughty).

This is aside from the fact that some people don’t want children and some symbionts don’t seem into the thing where the host is meant to die for them and they mustn’t ever be allowed to die (for example, Jadzia turning herself into a ghost did not trigger the Dax symbiont to attempt to detach, neither did letting herself be abducted and executed far from her home world)

I agree that you can understand it also as a way for the symbiont to not dominate the host and for joined trills to meet new people and not just stay around other joined trills forever but I don’t think it was the true intention and that’s why it doesn’t seem quite right and you have to invent reasons for them that they never really showed.

But I find poor Dax’s heartbreak enough to outweigh that plot weakness.
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Ruth
Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 11:41am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Shakaar

It seemed clear to me that Winn knows but can’t admit she’s a terrible leader. She can’t handle stuff like peace talks and land reclamation at all. Not like Kira, who’s growing out of her weaknesses and has just as much love for duty for Bajor as Winn. She’s a threat in that sense and it’s also no secret that she hates Winn. So this gets rid of her without provoking Sisko by actually killing her (which she doesn’t have moral problems with): either get rid of her support amongst the resistance and the people of her province or make her into a criminal who can’t put her terrorist past behind her. Then she can’t lead and possibly loses her position on DS9.

But they manoeuvred their way out of it. It reveals Kira as now not only a leader who could be first minister herself, like Shakaar, but as the ultimate kind of leader, one who inspires others to lead, like her idol Kai Opaka seemed to. The man she’s inspired to try to lead being her own former leader shows how much she’s growing in her position on DS9
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Ruth
Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:31pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Profit and Loss

This is possibly the second best episode of DS9 so far. I’m shocked that so many seem to dislike it.

Garak’s second phaser was Quark’s phaser, we saw that happen.

The “romantic” scenes are terrible as they tend to be in Star Trek but I did actually buy the chemistry between Quark and the professor, just not when it’s about glueing butterflies to noses which is not charming or sexy or whatever they were trying to go for but borderline horror. Knowing Ferengi eat a lot of insects I was actually expecting Quark to say he ate it off her nose...

I found Garak’s motivations interesting, believable and relatively easy to follow (considering he’s supposed to be mysterious so they don’t spell it out). The parallel between the professor and Garak taking the easy way out or doing the right thing for Cardassia was well done. Garak’s clear but hidden delight at one of his enemies delivering himself into his lap was great. He’s very scary but I like him a lot. I’m glad to hear he has more stuff with Quark later as they’re quite similar in some ways. I liked Quark in this, the way we did know like the professor that he may have meant what he was saying as he said it but would probably not have stuck to it.

Some people are asking why Odo was allowed to let them out, to me it’s clearly another one where Sisko “scolds” a naughty underling and is not so secretly pleased that they did what he legally could not. Yes perhaps they should have shown us that explicitly but this is a recurring problem with DS9, not just in this episode.
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Ruth
Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 7:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Shadowplay

I really liked this, the guest actors on the planet were great and I love Odo. It’s always great when they find a charming child actor, so many of them are awful but there have been some good ones on Star Trek and the girl in this episode is one of them (as is Jake thankfully as a main character). It’s definitely light but it’s very enjoyable. It’s very touching. I wonder if Odo feels like the old man, pretending to be like everyone else (and pretending he doesn’t have strong feelings about them)?

There’s some very dodgy writing in here though. People have already mentioned Sisko’s telling Jake to get a job seems bizarre. I wouldn’t think it would be legal that far in the future looking at how child labour laws have evolved in the past 100 years. It can be explained by the fact that Jake really got a part time apprenticeship, not a job, but only if you ignore Sisko’s comparison to Nog who really is working to support the family in the old fashioned, exploitative way.

The actor who plays Bareil makes some odd choices but I can’t blame it all on him, it’s a weird script. The making out plot heavy scene is absolutely bizarre. Why on Earth are they eating each other’s faces and just spewing gossip about Quark and everyone? It is so so so weird. It’s like they knew we didn’t want to watch them making out for that long, but they didn’t know another way to show their passion (or none that would suit the time slot at least), and they thought the plot dumping would be too boring, and nobody sane stopped them from combining the two bad scenes into an impressively awful one.
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Ruth
Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 8:19pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Paradise

It’s interesting that Joseph installed himself as the new cult leader before Alixus even left. He told us he was the 2nd strongest personality on the planet (as the last one to resist) and it was easy to misunderstand him as being fundamentally different to Alixus but he wasn’t. Or perhaps he had been but she’d beaten it out of him.

I don’t understand the ending - the woman in red was furious, the tortured man was happy to help Sisko before being allowed to - why didn’t they want to leave? And would the federation really act like cult victims had a free choice? And if they do have a free choice so they can be asked if they want to stay, they should all be in prison for aiding and abetting torture and possibly murder (I’m convinced Alixus killed the ill girl to be on time with catching O’Brien and torturing Sisko). It’s one or the other, but this has a weak ending like most DS9 episodes so far unfortunately.
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Ruth
Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 1:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: The Alternate

Rahul - I think you misunderstood. On the planet was: a statue, which they misled us into thinking was the monster but it was just a red herring and had no importance; the little creature which grew, escaped and died in the vents (after Odo-monster freed it - we were misled into thinking it freed itself); and a gas that knocked out the humanoids and did something weird to Odo, apparently whenever he "slept" he became a monster instead.

The creature was never in Odo, they removed the gas from him. They didn't realise he'd somehow absorbed it, because they thought "as he doesn't breathe, he didn't breathe it in, and he seems fine".

It was all explained, but it wasn't important - it was the means to the end of showing us Odo's feelings about his "father".




I found this episode quite moving but I have similar issues in my own relationship with my father (and none of the good bits that Odo does realise he has with Dr Mora, despite the problems). I'm glad they didn't linger too long on the "science" behind what was happening, because it was only background. Though it's odd to me as it is to others that Dax just went and looted the Gamma Quadrant like that, as if she has no other way to study the inscriptions. We've already had an episode about how doing that is bad news for DS9!
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Ruth
Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 10:40am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Cardassians

tempeh - it was all set up by Dukat. The Bajoran father came to DS9 for a job offer, with that alien. That alien is either some agent of Dukat's or simply someone who can be paid to lie. He's the sole source of the "the Bajoran parents are abusive" story, and Odo notes that he then disappears without a trace and no-one got his name. I think he even claimed to have been a family friend, but the Bajoran father can't name him so he's clearly not!

Dukat couldn't set up that the boy would bite Garak, but he basically had a minder with them who I assume was presenting himself as the intermediary for the false "job offer". He could have set up any kind of problem. He could have simply approached a federation officer and told them about the "child abuse", without even a scandal. I'm sure the boy biting Garak was not what Dukat wanted because I'm sure he didn't want to get him involved, in case he found out what he was up to (which he did, easily)

I liked this episode but Sisko absolutely made the wrong choice. But as a man who lost his wife and home in an attack and must have been glad he didn't lose his son too, I can see why his emotions got the better of him when presented with his unlucky counterpart. It doesn't explain why everyone else let him do something immoral and potentially illegal without protest, and I wish they'd gone into it more that it was wrong and personally motivated, pushing his buttons (like I have seen them do with Picard and Janeway in TNG and VOY when they were triggered into doing wrong things). I am new to DS9 and I find that you have to fill in the gaps an awful lot, which may feel like sophisticated writing sometimes but it's not really, not next to the bad editing and continuity, it's just mistakes. Still, there are some good stories if you look past the flaws and I'm enjoying reading Jammer and everyone else's thoughts.
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Ruth
Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: The Forsaken

I really liked the Lwaxana/Odo stuff but the other two plots didn't even make sense. It wouldn't have been so bad if they actually taught us something about Bashir, Dax and O'Brien but they don't. And never does anyone take anything seriously - the Federation apparently doesn't take the wormhole seriously whatsoever (apart from not wanting the Cardassians to have and ignore it), no-one takes the aliens coming through it seriously when meeting aliens is Starfleet's whole thing (that's a problem in every episode with aliens so far, not just this one, but the constant oversight is shocking to me). And no-one takes the computer problems or even the fire as seriously as they should. It's like they know it ends well. Unconvincing
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Ruth
Sun, Dec 9, 2018, 6:36am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: The Storyteller

I guessed that the menace was artificial but I thought it was about the Cardassians. All the stuff in the speech about resisting. And then it's hidden from the Cardassians under this veneer of "stupid Bajoran peasants and their stupid superstitions", so that they could get away with it. But it wasn't a veneer. Why would the storyteller not have noticed at any point in history that this wasn't necessary any more and was just injuring people for no reason? (There is no evidence of the division any more, or even that the people remember being once divided). Why is the apprentice willing to kill over full on nonsense? And why are the villagers so awful and pathetic when they've gotten through the occupation of Bajor? They don't care enough about this monster to fight it unless they're coached step by step?

Why is neither of these plots, about preventing civil wars on Bajor and about the unity and safety of the Bajorans, related to Kai Opaka's fate? Kira said near the beginning of the season that she's the glue holding Bajor together, which makes her "death" even worse, but there's no evidence.

Voyager S1 had more of an overarching plot than this, so I don't understand the comparisons made that it had a "reset button" but DS9 has a real story. Also, they had an excuse for crewmembers having to follow the whims of weirdo superstitious aliens, because they'd be stuck on a crashed shuttle that was lightyears from Voyager which was the only ally around. Why at no point does O'Brien or Bashir contact DS9, the Federation, or the Bajoran government about this problem? They're not stuck on the other side of the galaxy and they don't even make up a technobabble reason they can't contact anyone.

I did like the plot about the girl leader but I don't understand why her fabulous father (or anyone on the other side truly concerned about war) never came up with "you keep the land, but we still need access to the river through parts of it" before today. I can see why a 14 year old girl with few to advise her and very focussed on not looking weak struggled to come up with this, but this is a problem from before her grandfather's time, not a new one that's only affecting her!
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Ruth
Sun, Dec 9, 2018, 5:53am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: Vortex

Ahmed Khan - it is made clear why he's stealing, it's because he's going to get a ship in return. He's going to use that ship to rescue his daughter.

Also I don't think that Odo thinks someone killing someone who has broken into their home and killed their family members and is attempting to kill them is a "murderer", which is the other part of why he lets him go (I don't believe he would let an actual murderer go just for helping him, but I'm sure he would have still taken his daughter to safety). His problem was not believing the story of innocent self defence, because Croden really was a liar and Odo literally watched him break the law and kill someone, but after he asked Odo to take his daughter he started telling the truth and had no more reason to lie. I think Odo himself doesn't know how much he was swayed by either being rescued or the info & necklace, which is interesting.

I really liked this episode. I've started watching DS9 for the first time and much of the writing is atrocious (along with the weird insistence on unnecessary lingering close ups of people not-actually-reacting, and the awful scoring, and the odd editing choices that have left me multiple times thinking I must have missed part of the episode) but this one stands out as genuinely good.

I've heard a lot of early DS9 story threads were abandoned, but I'm hoping the necklace stays important to Odo until he finds out more.
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Ruth
Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 8:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Favorite Son

This episode is terrible, but it’s also a heavy inspiration for Mass Effect. It’s clearly this episode that gave them the idea for the Asari, from the female only/mainly female species, preferring but not necessarily needing alien DNA to procreate, the head spots and the name (though they’re named after the enemies of the Taresians, the Nasari). It’s very blatant and it makes me laugh. Of all the Star Trek episodes to use for your pseudo Trek game, I ask you!

There are some interesting parts like B’Elanna nearly dying and Harry’s guilt, or Tom’s mix of worry and jealousy on the planet, but they don’t go into it enough. They don’t even go into why the Nasari fire without warning on detection of an infected alien - clearly because as neighbours of the Taresians they are or at least feel especially threatened by their vampiric activities. I don’t mind reading into an episode, I wouldn’t come and read these reviews and comments if I didn’t enjoy it, but this one is just so thin. You pretty much have to read all of it in, apart from maybe the Janeway-mum stuff.
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Ruth
Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 8:11am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Rise

Sklar you need to pay more attention. For example in your own handpicked quotes it says that launching would kill the people in the cavern, which is why they’re panicking so much, but once they’re inside Neelix thinks the carriage will be okay but the launch cavern will be destroyed. No contradiction, no plot hole. And about the poison - they are establishing that the poison is available here but that it wasn’t accidental poisoning. You can get the poison, but it has to be on purpose because it’s a sealed system. So it’s murder not an accident.

That Tuvok apparently doesn’t care that there’s a murderer inside with them is a plot hole. The rest isn’t.

I don’t know how some people miss the point so badly. Saying space elevators is a stupid idea when it’s a real idea and feasible in Star Trek world. Whinging about shuttles (now more than when Jammer wrote his reviews - there are two entire episodes later dedicated to how voyager can not only build but design its own shuttles which he didn’t have, though I think with all the episodes about getting materials for the ship combined with them not really caring about lost shuttles it would have been possible to guess anyway). Saying they don’t understand the murderer’s motives and that that’s a problem with the plot and not their attention. Come on!

There are real problems with Voyager sometimes and this plot has a big one in Tuvok the starfleet officer with his duty to the truth, Tuvok the mystery solver who is completely distressed if he doesn’t have all the answers to a murder even if others would consider it solved, apparently no longer caring about a murder in front of him. On the mission he takes great pains to point out he’s in charge of. That’s a real genuine honest to god plot hole, one that detracts from the episode.

Beaming up in a fight is a plot hole too but not a significant one. I often think American television really suffers from adverts. I assume this was shown in an hour slot and if they’d had that full hour for each episode they would have been a lot better. But that’s how it is. So the first parts are often paced well and then they really squeeze the ending in. It’s not good but I think it’s better than either rushing the whole thing or giving us less story. There are plenty of logical explanations for how they and Neelix got back on the ship and his concussion was at least stabilised, but it was weird that we so conspicuously didn’t even see a hint of any of them. But I don’t call that a serious plot hole because it’s a minor plot point.

I like this episode for the Tuvok/Neelix relationship development and the insights into Neelix. That’s the point of the episode and I think they did it well. I also think the ideas of the failing rickety space elevator, the murder in a closed space, the aliens who use both cunning and force to steal planets, they’re all good ideas and at least felt fresh for Star Trek even if they’re not. I’d give this 3 out of 4 easily
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Ruth
Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 6:19am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Coda

This episode doesn’t show anything about the afterlife. It shows a very stubborn dying woman fighting against her death with encouragement from the man who would be her husband if not for circumstances, her best friend who has extremely good mental discipline, and a doctor who is not only very skilled but very innovative. And it also shows an alien trying to eat her life force.

If the alien could eat souls, if souls were real, there’s no rush. Though Janeway is confused by his actions and because she’s dying, she does realise eventually that if this were in any way real he doesn’t need to rush her. Even by his own lies he said he watched her and her family for months, so why can’t she do the same? She’s no idiot so she notices his lies but she’s too weak and confused to see them head on until the very end. That happens all the way through.

I love this episode. Tuvok’s obvious desperation, B’Elanna’s speech, Harry’s speech and both of them weeping 😭 I do think it cheapens it a bit that none of that was real, but i think we’re supposed to think that this is what they would do if it were real and I buy it. Interestingly Chakotay is more heartbroken in the real parts than the imagined parts. It’s not clear because of what she says about seeing things from outside being hallucinations but when he’s sobbing and Voyager will be there in a few mins, I think that one’s actually real, because that actually happened - Voyager really was on its way, Tuvok really did come and help very quickly.

I like the insights into Janeway too. That she was bed bound with depression for months 15 years ago is particularly interesting especially in light of later episodes where you see she does still have this tendency toward depression. And I like that if she really did become a ghost she’d stay with her crew.
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Ruth
Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 5:18am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Warlord

Skimbles you need to watch again. They absolutely put Tieran in Kes’ quarters. I can’t remember if Kes is ever in his throne room but he is absolutely in her quarters at one point.

Also Tuvok didn’t beam into the throne room! They were discussing a nearby place to launch an assault from - so obviously the palace was shielded. It was a big deal for Tieran to use Kes’ power to sense Tuvok, but any idiot would have seen him just materialise! That’s why they didn’t beam him out. They discussed the shield and Tieran even spoke to them about it and its weakness.

The necessity of the implants for the device to work is a genuine plot hole but one I didn’t notice when watching. It makes sense that it just forces Tieran out and that if he’s able he’ll use his implants to force himself into someone else. As it works fine without the line about the implants I wonder why they included it. It would have made more sense to wonder things like: might he have left her body already? If so, will she still be alive?
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Ruth
Sat, Dec 9, 2017, 9:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Sacred Ground

I think it’s odd to see this as a science vs religion episode. At several points it’s made clear that neither Janeway nor the spirits/elders see that as a meaningful distinction. The guide, we first see her repairing advanced technology. Without Janeway’s knowledge, she was scanned on entry to the shrine and they instantly found all her hidden tech and knew what it was used for. These people are extremely scientifically advanced, perhaps moreso than Voyager. I also wondered if the woman was chosen to be Janeway’s guide because they were similar in that way.

Janeway is extremely good at leaps of faith. She does that at the end of several episodes when she sets a course for home. It was a new take on her beliefs but not a revelation of new character details. In Resolutions too she was exactly the same: given sufficient time and tools no secrets are out of my reach. That’s her beliefs. These are already established character traits.

I like this episode a lot. I don’t see it as an attempted attack on belief or science, much less a successful one. It’s about dedication more than anything else, to me. Her dedication to science, her dedication to Kes, her dedication to doing the ritual ‘properly’ once she had committed to it.
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Ruth
Wed, Dec 6, 2017, 8:52pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Remember

Skoochy, accusations of starting plagues are common with this kind of prejudice. It doesn’t need to be true and we can see it’s probably not true. The enarans were unnecessarily clean and Kirina would have probably caught something off her boyfriend if it was really like that. I think you also didn’t understand the scene where she gives him up. Her father was saying he had multiple girlfriends and he’d told her he loved her only to get in her knickers. She’s having conflicted feelings and she ends up siding with the familiar, with her father and the status quo.

I thought all of this was pretty clear. The whole episode rings true to me. It’s nice to see a less black and white take on things but still with clear morals and though the atrocities are in the past at least the episode has a fairly hopeful future. I have no idea why the producers didn’t like this episode but quite a few of their decisions baffle me.
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Ruth
Sun, Nov 26, 2017, 1:46pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix

But aside from that, the actor playing Tuvix is amazing. Two very hard characters to blend in speech and mannerisms, but he managed. Really well done.
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Ruth
Sun, Nov 26, 2017, 1:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix

I realised upon watching for the third time what they were trying to do with Tuvix's refusal to go through with the procedure. He was a better security officer than Tuvok and a better chef than Neelix. He was easier for people to get along with than either, appearing neither cold nor overbearingly warm. But he was a worse PERSON. Janeway said Tuvok and Neelix would have gone through with it in his position, and Tuvix, who'd know, doesn't argue. I think actually Neelix would die to save just one other let alone two and let alone them being family or otherwise the same as him. Tuvok might not die for one person in cold blood (the situation where he's putting the Maquis through training is different) but certainly as a vulcan you imagine he'd put the needs of the many before the needs of himself.

But Tuvix wouldn't. He knew how much each man valued his own life and how selfless they would both be but he wouldn't do it. I think this is also what's supposed to justify the ending. Neelix might be a coward generally, but he has a lot of feeling and can find the courage to do what he believes is right. Tuvok is less likely to show he cares about others, but he would do what is logically best and wouldn't be afraid to sacrifice himself. But Tuvix is both cold and cowardly, won't see that it's right to let them both live or that it's logical that two should live over one. A keen mind and following hunches made him better at solving problems, Talaxian spicy cooking and Vulcan bland cooking made him a better cook, but Neelix's feelings-based ethics and Tuvok's logic-based ethics left him without ethics. He's a worse man. Not by any means bad enough to deserve to die, but so bad in comparison to Neelix and Tuvok that he can't be allowed to live at their expense. After all, no-one minded having him around, until the moment it became clear they could have the other pair back.

Tuvok and Neelix seemed to carry his hurt that everyone bar the Doctor and particularly that Janeway had killed him, but they clearly didn't hold it against her or anyone later on. I can only imagine that as Tuvix had their memories, they had Tuvix's, but they still seemed to think what Janeway did was right in the end, because they are better than Tuvix.
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Ruth
Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 8:29pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Innocence

I love this episode. Tuvok is one of my favourite characters and I like the child actors in this ep, especially Tressa.

I just watched it again and I’ve seen it before. WIth twist endings like this, sometimes it’s fake and they spring it on you out of nowhere. But not in this. Right from the beginning, the “children” are clearly describing what the woman at the end describes, and it’s only because we (reasonably) assume they are children from their appearance that we don’t realise they’re old. The first things they say is that their parents are all dead - but they don’t seem particularly upset about that as they would have hoped to outlive them - and that the attendants are dead, but that the attendants are not their parents. There’s more but that stood out to me as it’s the first things they tell Tuvok about their situation.

I agree with everyone who thinks it’s ridiculous that the woman didn’t tell Voyager about their aging, particularly when she was talking to Tuvok and he asserted that he was protecting Tressa. If she could say at the end that we age the other way around, she had to have known it when she was speaking with Tuvok. It’s silly. And she apparently takes a long time to realise Tuvok was trying to help the “children” and doing very good job of it. They had failed! The shuttle crashed and two “children” died alone, presumably terrified. The two who die when Tuvok is working presumably went to their deaths happy and content, and we know Tressa did. But why did it take so long to send more attendants? Janeway wasn’t checking in on Tuvok’s shuttle that often but she had no reason to, they weren’t on an important mission with vulnerable people.

I really like seeing Tuvok as a father here. He obviously deeply misses his children though of course he denies it. His lullaby was nice too
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Ruth
Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Investigations

William B, you really misunderstood that scene where Janeway said Neelix took the bait. He took Jonas' bait. Tuvok and Janeway knew all about the dodgy log entries. However they'd hit a dead end because they were too well covered up. When Paris left, Jonas used that as an opportunity to frame Paris and take the heat off him (bear in mind he already had his final instructions from Seska, so he's expecting either to be serving under her and Culluh soon or for Voyager to defeat them and to be not found out as a wannabe traitor).

When Jonas knew Neelix was investigating - and remember he does know because he literally was there - he had to act. It was the kind of pressure Tuvok and Janeway were trying but failing to apply to the traitor. It caused him to make a move, which is something they wanted because it's more evidence, more chance to slip up. So, he goes and adds the fake signature to the doctored entries, because he doesn't know Tuvok and Janeway have already seen them, because they've been keeping very quiet until now (that's why Tuvok tries so hard to dissuade Neelix from doing any of this, because he thought it might scare the traitor back into hiding instead of scaring them into making a move). When Neelix announces Paris' guilt on his show, he's taking the traitor's bait, letting them get cosy again. That's what they were talking about. That's why she asks him to investigate again.

Apparently being fine with sacrificing the Talaxians is another matter, definitely. I can only imagine that it's because they could have held them off for a moment and called for Voyager's help as they weren't too far apart yet. Even so, that's pretty irresponsible of Janeway to endanger them like that when they thought they were doing her a favour! Endangering Paris, who is part of her crew and a volunteer for this mission, is one thing, but that's another entirely.

And I couldn't stand when Tuvok's idea of an open comm link is... not having an open comm link. "Omg are you doing sabotage???" and I don't know, Tuvok's on the bog? Even if he was, should he not have mobilised a team at that point and not later? It's annoying when they make characters less intelligent/powerful to serve the plot. Even if he sent the team but they didn't get to the doors before Jonas sealed them, it's the same outcome but less aggravatingly done! I can handle Jonas having weird powers over the ship (as he hasn't been previously shown not to, and he's not really important) but I can't handle Tuvok not keeping his eye on the situation when he literally promised he would. Tuvok isn't supposed to be an idiot or a liar. Anything! Like a scene on the bridge, Tuvok's lost his comm link to Neelix - which would suggest the traitor in action but still not precisely who it is. Whatever! I would still have thought it was stupid even if they hadn't written him to say he was listening, but as they did, it's unforgivable.
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Ruth
Wed, Nov 22, 2017, 6:45am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Dreadnought

Skackle, you're being too harsh. It's clear that Torres was careful to program it to be respectful of anyone who isn't Cardassian and particularly of the Federation. It vaporises the little ships from the planet because it thinks they're Cardassian ships (because it's damaged), but it never fully goes for Voyager because it's not supposed to. And it only takes away life support for B'Elanna, and tells her it's doing so, when it thinks she has fully switched sides, not when it thinks she's merely being coerced. I also assume that it could easily have vented the atmosphere or otherwise outright killed her - it seems it was still expecting to force her off the missile and not kill her.

And the only person it would ever argue with is B'Elanna because these arguments were clearly stated in the episode to be part of how she programmed it, and though it's damaged it still recognises her as its programmer.

Anyway, I like this episode. Obviously the interior is one of their generic ship interiors but who cares? It's just television and they have a limited budget. I can't imagine being taken out of the story by things like reused sets. How can anyone watch Star Trek like that? All the reused caves and town squares and especially the 'wilderness'.

This is an interesting story for what it says about weapons and probably soldiers too. B'Elanna was so careful to make sure Dreadnought would only kill the 'right' people but it wasn't in her hands. She would have been responsible for even more killing (and something that I CAN'T overlook in Star Trek is the stupid village planets - 2 million people on their homeworld?? Yeah right! 2 billion would be low!). B'Elanna is a 'good' person and wouldn't kill innocents, expect she just did. Which is probably what Chakotay's problem was, so I wish they'd gone into that a little more. He's older and wiser than her and maybe he's already learnt this from experience.

I also like the aspect of the fact that Dreadnought was partially right, she had been compromised by the federation. It's an interesting episode for B'Elanna. I also like the parts of the ongoing stories of Wildman's pregnancy, the traitor, and Paris' behaviour. I don't know why people pretend Voyager doesn't have ongoing stories, that's three in one ep for heaven's sake (four if you count "the Maquis" - something else people pretend Voyager doesn't touch on).
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Ruth
Mon, Nov 20, 2017, 7:18am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Threshold

I've just watched this episode for the third time. I have to say I like it. It's camp and ridiculous, but please keep in mind that some people think that describes all of Star Trek!

I think it makes most sense as a dream of Paris. I know that's normally a cheap and stupid explanation/ending, but here it does make sense. The entire thing is so totally focused on him. Even the subtle parts, like B'Elanna, the best engineer, not being the one to help with the final idea - just Tom and his best friend Harry, with the help of Neelix, who only a few episodes ago he came to a better understanding with.

You could also say it moves from father issues, which are a long term thing with him, to issues with his (and almost everyone on Voyager's) mother figure, Janeway. She wants to protect him. Does she believe in him? She does! But, is Harry her favourite son? And then he has teenage tantrums at her when his body is going through scary changes. And after, when his scary transformation is complete, he has sex with her and they have children, but the children don't matter because they aren't real... it really seems like a bad dream. But like a dream, you can see the themes and the ideas. (And I have had recurring bad dreams about spitting out my teeth - maybe his version is spitting out his tongue!)

I think the real idea is what he briefly discusses at the end, what's the worth and cost of proving himself. Janeway says people respect him and that's the end, because that was the answer to the real beginning question, not the matter of crossing the threshold. It was always about his self worth.

Also, I will always love the doctor waking him in sickbay. That's a classic.
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