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Patrick
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 8:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Did not watch the show. Did watch some of the last Picard Data scenes on youtube. They didnt show what happened to Picard after his deadscene and the whole thing was quite redundant and it feels wrong. We have almost eternal life now but dont give it. Aha. And Picard isnt at all shocked what they did to him. And for what reason? Put an old man in an old replicant so he still has to die a second time but in a synthetic way? What kind of androids are these? Clones seems more like it.

Anyway why didnt they put Data back i a new body? Why he had to stay in eternal limbo? And why he was aware it was a simulation? Did he find out himself?
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Eric Jensen
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 2:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

No one has mentioned Professor X... wow, I went to the search function and no one mentions Professor X and transferring his mind...
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Eric Jensen
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 2:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Also, it is like Professor X transferring his mind to another body... very superhero-y feel
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Eric Jensen
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 2:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

The scene with Picard and Data did NOT actually take place. It is all in Picard's mind. It wasn't actually Data's consciousness...
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Patrick D
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 8:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@skye francis-maidstone

"I'm SO glad they didn't end with a 30 minute space battle like DSC S2 did (a finale that "everyone" except me apparently loved). That may have ruined what was on the whole a damn fine season."

I mean, it looked cool but it didn't really cap off the season in a way that meaningfully closed any arcs of the season (except for guest character Pike's, I suppose). And then the show comes up with the most inelegant solution in fiction by having everyone "forget what happened" in first two seasons of DISCO. I'm curious about what will happen in season 3 of DISCO, but I'm not excited about it at all.

Say what you will about this show, but at least it followed through with Picard being the optimistic hero and brings everyone into the light. Yes, they left many details hanging, but the main story arcs were more or less resolved in a plausibly Trekkian way. That plus the acting puts this leagues ahead of DISCO.

Set in a course for season 2, maximum warp. Engage!
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Patrick D
Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

"First, that really backfired didn't it?"

Maddox was not aware of how sophisticated the Zhat Vash was. Really though, how could he know that? In Maddox's defense, it appears as if the androids could defend themselves when needed and even seek out help like Picard (I think Dahj even knew Picard specifically could be trusted).

"Second, if he can program them to behave as perfectly passable humans, then he can program them to act like perfectly passable humans while knowing their true identity."

That's a big assumption to make. What would he even have to gain by having them know they are androids? Presumably, he can already activate them when it suits his purposes.

"Third, still doesn't explain why Soji was on a Borg cube of all places"

A Borg cube where Romulans are doing research on synthetic technology in a joint operation with the Federation, you mean. It sounds like the perfect opportunity to gain intel on the Romulans.
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Patrick D
Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Glom

"Why were Dahj and Soji where they were? Maddox said something about sending them out to monitor anti-synth activity. Why then send Soji to a derelict Borg cube. More importantly, why were they sleepers? That is never addressed and as it stands makes no sense. YMMV whether these supermassive plot holes affect the overall experience, but to many of us, when the narrative is geared around the mystery these things matter."

Maddox said he knew there was sort of Romulan conspiracy that was targeting his work with synthetics and he wanted to know the truth about it. He knew that the conspiracy had penetrated the Federation, so it seems that he sent Dahj off to gather intel in the Federation while Soji did something similar with the Romulans. We can assume they're "sleepers" because if they both know they were androids and started behaving like androids, they'd likely blow their cover and Maddox would get nothing.
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Eric Jensen
Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:06am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

//Let's look at xenopobia. The episode at the end makes a comment about how the synth ban was lifted but we are never shown how that came about. Why? Because Soji in the last moment decided to not wipe out every organic life in the galaxy? An option the synth still have. So every organic in the galaxy now has effectively a gun to his/her/they head all the time. Does an existential threat create acceptance? These 50 synth now control the galaxy. What is the message here? If we aren't nice to what is different then these beings will murder every last one of us? Will anybody think racism is wrong after watching this?//

Remember it was Commander Oh who was the leader of the Zhat Vash (sp?) Once she was found out, they lifted the ban
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Patrick D
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 6:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: The Impossible Box

Batfunk said:

"But I was wrong. As good actor as he is, he takes advantage of his producer role to inject his own interests as liberal English citizen:brexit, immigration, democracies difficulties..."

You have to squint really hard to find anything like that. You say the Federation not helping the Romulans is like Brexit? Not really. The Federation is still the big cooperation of nations (in fact, it's more similar to the EU) and not helping out the Romulans would be something like not sending aid to Syria or Ukraine. But see, I'm stretching here to even make these simple analogies work. There just isn't a big straightforward political agenda going on.

Frankly, I'd be happy if this show made more of the bold liberal statements you speak of, but at best it's just the same allegorical stuff you always see in Star Trek.
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 12:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

The unanswered question: who were those future-uber synths? What will happen? If those are future synths, won't the future be endangered still? I think Discovered will answer this question.

I am not happy with the lingering question of who these future synths are. The threat is still looming. If any synth still make a beacon, those future uber synths will still come.
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Patrick D
Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 10:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

@Jason R and others

"I guess the issue is it's like so much in this show - half baked and slapdash. Of course we know the reason androids can mind meld - because it was literally the only means they could think of to permit plot point A to get to plot point B. Just slap it together quick and dirty. Don't think too much, don't stop to consider, whatever Androids can mind meld, get with the program."

I see what you mean, but I tend to roll with the punches more as long as I'm being entertained. That's not for lack of thinking, it's more along the lines of thinking ahead to next week when I'll have a full picture of the story in my head and I can finally give this episode a full assessment. And to be fair, this show does go into detail in some episodes -- which is why this generally holds together better for me than DISCO which was more like a constant action movie.

Part of what also makes this episode odd, I feel, is that despite the serialized structure of the rest of the show, this episode alone seems framed very much as a two-part finale that will naturally tie up the lose the ends, or at least most of them. That makes this much more jarring than Nepenthe, for example, which had a continuing story cooked into it. But unlike here, we had no expectation that Nepenthe would have an immediate follow-up episode with Riker and Deanna, etc.
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Patrick D
Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 8:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

Personally, I don't see the problem with Synths being able to mind meld. In past episodes, they've explained to us that Soji is able to replicate biological functions of human beings such as eating, salivating, taste preference, and crying. If such physiological replications of humans are possible, why wouldn't synthetic replications of Vulcan functions also be possible?

@Gerontius

"One more week of Picard to go, and then I'll probably be hunkering down in my family self isolation going back through classic Star Trek (and also Mash)."

Good choice, my man. TOS has some of the most fun and bizarrely episodic shows that would serve as a nice contrast to the serialized stories we've been getting. Plus I've found people on this board have been much nicer when talking about the older shows.
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Patrick D
Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 10:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

Nicely said, Oriosiris. I only hope your comment doesn’t fall on deaf ears.

Live Long and Prosper, friend.
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Eric Jensen
Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

Picard will sacrifice his life for Soji
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Patrick D
Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 10:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

I am really loving this show. At the same time, I honestly can’t defend its many many shortcomings. How odd.
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 1:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

*airiam
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 1:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

Spoilers
Trailer for next week
Spoilers, spoilers, of the trailer... do not read... do not read if you don't want to know
So you know Discovery, that red squid/octopus thing... I saw it in the trailer for next week. Those metallic tentacles and the red hole. Control will be involved. That makes sense... when Control got hold of Miriam, and when Control took over section 31...
This is very exciting stuff
End spoilers
End trailer spoilers
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 1:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

SPOILERS

The reveal of his brain condition. Seven and Elnor team-up, yes. And his reaction to seeing Picard. The manipulative Sutra... Soji indecisiveness and we could see her conflict... Soong's antagonism (seems to me) towards Picard... We see Oh's fleet...

It feels somewhat like a detective show. Who killed Saga? Were Narek and Sutra conspiring together?

That scene with Raffi and PIcard, very tender. When is Q going to appear? So will Soji be the destroyer?

I liked it, but when Seven said she felt connected, I don't want Seven to be borg again, will she become Borg? Please no.
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Richard James
Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 6:20am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

Judging by the preview, next week's episode will be Picard: Endgame.
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Richard James
Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:53am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Broken Pieces

@James White

I agree - the small bits of background on this star system and this ancient civilization are really compelling and hark back to the best aspects of TNG and the idea of 'exploration'.

Personally I would have liked to have seen more (or even a flashback) of Rios's time in Starfleet, and the moral dilemma his former captain faced by killing the synth emissaries. (Orders and duty Vs morality and life).

Both of these aspects are small, but give a great texture to the series that's been mostly missing so far.
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Richard James
Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:55am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Broken Pieces

As much as I mostly enjoy the comments on the blog - it's in need of some series moderation. Some of these comments are downright abusive and, while I'm all for disagreement and differing opinions of this show, we've some aggressive and threatening behaviour that really doesn't need to be tolerated.

I get that Jammer probably doesn't have the time to moderate this thing, but still.
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Tricolaco
Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 8:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Broken Pieces

So - what will the next show be called, Star Trek: Battlestar Enterprise? Is Data a Cylon prototype? Is Soji number 13?

I like the show but I don’t know if it makes sense for it to tread this path, honesty. What can it do with this theme that Battlestar Galactica didn’t already do, and probably better?
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Eric Jensen
Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 3:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Broken Pieces

I do like this episode but it is mostly telling and not showing. Maybe more flashbacks? Remember there are SPOILERS of this episode and so beware. I will also be mentioning SPOILERS of the trailer
Spoilers...
I am very glad that Seven has not become a Borg queen and Elnor seemed happy he was not assimilated. The Borg depicted here are lacking in something. They don't seem like the normal Borg. I did wish that Seven could have done something more damaging to Narissa, but sadly they went out the airlock... At least Narissa has more evil work to do here. So Ramhda (spelling?) the romulan prophecy woman is the auntie of Narissa and Narek. Does Narek know about the prophecy? I liked how Soji becomes a strong person in this episode, however she did not have to forcefully pilot the ship go to her home. I mean, now that Romulans are following her. Is it a transwarp Borg conduit they went into?

The scenes between Raffi and Rios were excellent and I liked the juxtaposition between these scenes and the scenes of Agnes and Soji. It is good that Agnes feels guilty and that psychic mental block?

So the Zhat Vash is a cult that tries to get rid of synths because they saw a possible future if a certain threshold is met? I think Control will be involved.

SPOILERS from the TRAILER - So they go to Soji's home and apparently they try to disable their ship, everything goes dark...

I liked how Raffi tried to uncover the mystery of Rios and Jana, because it seemed like a Poirot-convention.

I was only slightly confused as to how Raffi knew Oh was infiltrating into Starfleet and that it was the Romulans that ordered the attack on Mars and the ban of the synths.
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Richard James
Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 1:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Broken Pieces

I think this episode is a lot more 'plotty' than most, with a fair bit of exposition and filling in of the backstory- but my my - it certainly is good backstory!

The slow moments with Soji and Picard were well done, and Rios experience with his previous captain ties in nicely with this wider, ancient plot again synthetic life. While I thought that Raffi suddenly spelling out the plot in one go was a bit far fetched, the pace of the episode and chance to reflect on what mattered really pays off.

Lets hope they keep this up after all that painfully slow build up of the first few episodes
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Eric Jensen
Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 4:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Nepenthe

Some spoilers/trailer talk coming up, so please look away if you don't want to see it. Scroll away or down

Ok, so I found 2 instances of the word "sacrifice" here. I could be wrong and they do not talk about Oh and Agnes....

What Oh said in this episode, the latest one, was that Agnes must commit a sacrifice. What is that sacrifice? I do not understand this... is the sacrifice her coma? Is her sacrifice the death of Bruce Maddox? Now... should we assume the tracking device is gone? Narek seemed disappointed and angry that there was no signal. Could we say that Narek thinks Agnes knew how to disable it? Do they think Agnes is dead? Why would they kill Agnes (Narek might think)...

I think the "sacrifice" that Oh mentioned is Bruce Maddox's death. Then Agnes felt guilty because Rios think Raffi is the mole, the spy, the secret agent... so I am thinking that Agnes was not supposed to take the neuro-toxin and disable the tracking device. Does everyone agree that her sacrifice was his death?

SPOILERY TRAILERY coming next

So now that Agnes has disabled the tracking device (SPOILER ALERT COMING... from the trailers if you don't want to know or see it, please look away - Agnes is alive and well and Picard manages to speak with Agnes about "hell" and I suppose she tells Picard about the mind-meld and Picard says Hell will come again... could that mean the Borg? This is Picard's personal hell, right?

END SPOILERY TRAILERY
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