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Rahul
Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:16am (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Cloud Minders

Loved your review Mal for one of my favourite episodes. There really is so much here that TOS does wonderfully.

Spock's monologue is brilliant and as a Spock episode I like how you've turned the tables in asking how he can not understand what it means to be human. I never thought of that aspect, but if there is some continuity to how McCoy chides him in that prior episode (which I believe is "Requiem for Methuselah") then there is some growth for the character here -- or at least added depth. What's been interesting in S3 is how Spock evolves -- really opening up about the mating aspects here is so different from "Amok Time". Maybe it all had to do with McCoy rewiring his brain in "Spock's Brain"! But then he also hit his head in "That Which Survives" and started acting like a jerk...

It's also great that we get scenes where Plasus and Droxine discuss the situation without any of the main cast present, we really get to understand their motivations. I also liked Vanna a great deal -- man, was she hot in that cave scene...

And I don't know if you notice the very final shot in this episode is a glance at Droxine and a hint of the love she might have fulfilled with Spock that is likely gone forever. It always says a lot for me.

I think this episode is quintessential Trek and going back to the discussion on "The Enterprise Incident", while this episode doesn't rate as quite as highly for me as that one did (it's not far off 8/10 vs. 9/10), I think it is more "series defining" than "The Enterprise Incident", which I hadn't considered before.
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Rahul
Fri, Jan 22, 2021, 8:59am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

very sad to hear we lost Mira Furlan -- just watched "Confessions and Lamentations" last night as well ...
She was so good as Delenn -- really brought the aspect of another culture into the character.
Yes, would be cool to have a B5 section on this site -- a wonderful series indeed.
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Rahul
Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 7:17pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

I wasn't too disappointed with the explanation for the Burn given in this episode, nor was I when it was hinted at in "Su'Kal" -- found this moderately interesting:

https://ca.startrek.com/news/the-science-behind-discoverys-burn
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Rahul
Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 12:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Empath

@ Mal

Re. the Vians — I don’t think it is categorically as clear as you make it out to be that they are evil or that they are villains, especially if you keep in mind what William B wrote about the situation they are put in, their capabilities and what they are trying to do. What makes “The Empath” great Trek is it makes you think (if you are willing to) are they evil? Are they really villains? For me, the answer is no. They are certainly not the hard-headed aliens of the week so frequently seen on VOY. The Cardies in CoC are villains — no question about it. But is Sisko a villain in “In the Pale Moonlight”? His situation is sort of similar to the Vians’. If he doesn’t figure out a way to get the Romulans on the side of the Federation in the war against the Dominion, the Alpha Quadrant is fucked. Sort of similarly, the Vians want to make sure the species they save is the right one. I will always condemn violence, torture and killing from a human standpoint, but can we impose our morals on aliens? What makes them alien? For me, one thing that would make them alien is a different set of universal values.

Re. the writer Joyce Muskat — she was an amateur and I think it is irrelevant that she didn’t go on to have the careers of Moore and Shankar. She wrote a short story (“The Answerer” I believe its called) and it was turned into this episode. Maybe she didn’t enjoy the experience of working with the TOS powers that be back then and decided not to write anymore. Or maybe she became a housewife or a pharmacist. Who knows? My point is I don’t think we need to necessarily look at a writer’s career to opine on how 1 of their projects stands up to the test of time.

Obviously this episode is not visually appealing, it is dark, the subject matter is very dark. I would not be surprised to find out that “The Empath” was the absolute lowest budget Trek episode ever made. We know TOS S3 was running on a shoestring budget. This episode is all about the story, the characters and the acting. In terms of bang-for-the-buck, I’m hard pressed to come up with an episode that did it better. If a few more bucks were spent on whatever, it might well be a 4* episode for me. I think “The Empath” is quite an accomplishment.
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Rahul
Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:08pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Empath

Brilliant comment from William B -- you sir are a "pearl of great price" on this forum!

This is clearly a highly polarizing episode but I think it should be clear that the Vians are clearly not cardboard baddies -- they represent intellect and are tasked with playing God. Note that they are not saving themselves either -- their society will be extinct. They are taking responsibility for the future development of another world in the best (most logical) way, according to them. If a viewer can't see this distinction, they'll most likely hate the episode.

I think we humans naturally want to imbue or inject human universal values onto aliens like the Vians, but some of these Trek tales are about being in situations no humans could realistically be in and then seeing what values / ideals can be gleaned.

For me personally, I love this episode and rate it very highly (9/10), but the difference with my hating "Plato's Stepchildren" (PS) has to do with what is gratuitous but more importantly what is torture vs. what is demeaning humiliation. As William B says, I agree that the torture in "The Empath" is not gratuitous -- it does its job and creates the circumstances for Gem to do her thing. In PS, what Kirk/Spock go thru is demeaning humiliation and beyond a point, it becomes gratuitous. That's the difference for me. I think PS establishes pretty clearly early on that Parmen is an a$$hole. Then the episode goes on to establish how big of an a$$hole he really is.

As for CoC II, the torture isn't gratuitous either for me -- it is just the right amount to keep the plot progressing and to show Picard's resistance develop.
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Rahul
Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 10:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Tholian Web

@Mal

Re. the madness being needed or not in this episode, I suspect it is a "feature" meant to amp up the ticking time bomb factor. It could have been done without, but the episode would have been less visceral. Also, given the episodic nature of TOS, I don't think TPTB expected us to be counting the number of recent episodes where the crew is going insane. They surely didn't expect folks like us to watch the series over and over again and analyze it to death!

Also, I think we have to assume that for most of the duration of the episode, Bones and Spock are not affected by the madness, such that they are able to carry on their "rivalry" as being true to their archetypes. That's how I feel that these 2 characters maintain their integrity here and why TW is a high 3 stars ep.

I'll also add re. "Plato's Stepchildren" that it is the one of the very few TOS episodes that I actually also hate, though I do respect it from a critical standpoint. On re-watches, I don't watch the parts where Kirk/Spock get humiliated. I also found CoC II to be tough to watch at times but it's a very powerful hour and in the context of a prisoner of war situation, the torture is more understandable.

But as for "The Empath", this one is more true to TOS in that we don't actually see brutal torture taking place. It wouldn't be consistent with the aesthetic of the episode. Bones is at death's door but the writers leave it to us to fill in the details. Can you imagine if DSC was to do "The Empath" -- well, I guess we have seen how idiotically brutal DSC can be...
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Rahul
Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 12:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Tholian Web

@Mal

Even after re-watching TOS umpteen times, it never bothered me that with "The Tholian Web" (TW), it is another episode where the crew goes "insane".

TOS will use devices like insanity (or mass crew manipulation more broadly) and super-beings (particularly in S1) over and over but with enough twists on it so that they tell a different story or focus on a different theme every time.

There's plenty of substance in TW to differentiate from the mediocrity of a 2* episode. William B.'s ghost analogy is very well thought out (as usual), but where TOS shines here is the situation created with Kirk's seeming death and the effects that has on Spock/Bones. Even if Bones is over the top, he is playing an archetypal role, as is Spock with Kirk (presumed dead) not available to balance things out. I really liked this dynamic, particularly for Spock.

It's a very busy episode sort of like your favorite "Journey to Babel" but the pacing is excellent and it all works very well, with a touch of handwaving. From the standpoint of TOS sci-fi, this one is also pretty good and the intro of the Tholians as a hostile species with a different technology (weapon) with their web shows some creativity in that it's not just another race that's going to pew-pew you to death.

Anyhow, I think you're about to review "The Empath" -- one of my favorites, so I look forward to that!
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Rahul
Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 11:27am (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Enterprise Incident

@Mal

I fully admit I'm a bit of a nerd in that I have this pet project (with a spreadsheet!) for compiling my list etc. All to say that if somebody were to put together a top 5 or top 50 list etc., I think it would be hard not to let something slip thru the cracks without being able to keep track of everything! So I don't think you can necessarily just go off the top of your head in coming up with such a list.

Obviously I'm with you on "In the Pale Moonlight". But for the other 4, I think their respective series have stronger episodes, all factors considered. "The First Duty" is an interesting choice -- not sure why you rate that one so highly as I think there are 15-20 better TNG episodes!
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Rahul
Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 9:01am (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Enterprise Incident

@Mal

With respect to IMDB's list and TOS not even breaking the top 5, I don't agree with that, but we can take the list for what it is and gather that it is probably tilted toward a younger audience who hasn't spent time on TOS like they have on TNG/DS9 etc.

I've put together my top 50 Trek episodes (I've taken care to review/rate each one as objectively/dispassionately/consistently as possible -- and then revised/reviewed it a few times) and 2 of my 5 top 5 are TOS episodes ("The Doomsday Machine" and yes, "Balance of Terror"). The other 3 are BoBW, "In the Pale Moonlight" and "Duet".
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Rahul
Sat, Jan 9, 2021, 3:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

@Chrome

"Jammer's TOS reviews are capsule reviews that were written hastily over a weekend so Jammer's site would have some reviews to read for a TOS marathon on Sci-Fi."

So all the more reason not to give much credence to Jammer's TOS ratings -- certainly as a factor in deciding upon a series-defining episode. That being said, I love his reviews when he's able to give it his full attention like in later DS9 seasons and VOY, ENT. Would love for him to re-review / re-rate TOS, but I realize that ain't happenin'
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Rahul
Sat, Jan 9, 2021, 1:20pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

@grey cat

Sisko poisons an entire world in "For the Uniform." And then there's "In the Pale Moonlight" where he's an accessory to 2 murders.

Whether a captain has to kill people or not or has done so should not be a consideration for if they should be a captain or not.
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Rahul
Sat, Jan 9, 2021, 1:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Enterprise Incident

@Mal

The only thing I'd add is that you seem to be putting a lot of weight on Jammer's ratings to determine whether or not an episode is series defining. Out of all the series, TOS is the one where I have the most problems with his ratings -- they're literally all over the place.

He's got "Balance of Terror" and "The Conscience of the King" as 2.5 stars but "I, Mudd" and "Shore Leave" as 3 stars?? And "Arena" at 1.5 stars?? I think enough other posters have remarked about these inconsistencies. Jammer's reviews for Balance and Conscience are also off the mark. I'm not the only person thinking Balance is one of the series best -- and I've seen it called that elsewhere too.

We'll have to agree to disagree on "The Enterprise Incident". But in general, it's very hard to pin down a series-defining episode for TOS. And ideally, such an episode should come from its 1st season or at least the early part of the 2nd season. I think you are probably aware of the major changes for S3 and how it is a step or 2 below the first 2 seasons -- so I would not choose a series defining episode from that season. Cheers!
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Rahul
Sat, Jan 9, 2021, 11:02am (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S3: The Enterprise Incident

@Mal

Interesting writeup as usual, but I have some qualms with what you say.

As far as the 1 episode that defined each of the 5 classic Trek series, this is a vague concept. Do you mean the best episode or one that really encapsulated the primary aspect of the series best? In any case, I'd agree with you on your selections for TNG, VOY. "Damage" for ENT also works for me, though I consider "Regeneration" a slightly superior episode. For me, "In the Pale Moonlight" is DS9's series-defining episode. You could even say "Duet" regarding the Bajoran/Cardassian arc pre Dominion War arc.

But when it comes to TOS, there are probably half a dozen episodes that I think fit the bill better than "The Enterprise Incident". TOS had a number of themes from Alpha Quadrant geopolitics to the bond between the Big 3 etc. "The Enterprise Incident" is not even in my top 10 of best TOS episodes as I think it suffers from a really pushing the suspension of disbelief that Kirk & co. can pull off their heist. Also, making the Romulans look like fools doesn't help. Yes, we have the memorable scenes with Spock and the Romulan commander (her name is not provided here but in Star Trek Continues, it's given -- can't remember it). Bottom line, holes can be poked in this episode, but it is still a 9/10 for me.

But just on the topic of Alpha Quadrant geopolitics at the time of TOS, "Balance of Terror" is clearly a superior episode and makes a better use of both Kirk and Spock, whereas this episode is a Spock episode. I find "Errand of Mercy" also touches on this AQ geopolitics theme + deals with humanity as an inferior species when compared to the Organians -- so I think that episode also does a better job of defining the series TOS.

On the guest actor issue, Linville is excellent, but TOS has had even better performances like from Montalban, Joan Collins, Bill Windom, and Mark Lenard (as the Romulan commander).
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Rahul
Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 3:53pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

@Peter G.

" I do think in ENT Bakula was unsalvageable."

I don't agree with this at all. Bakula is a terrific actor, better for Star Trek than Brooks and at least on par with Mulgrew. In Season 1, he's a bit too happy-go-lucky as a character but the actor delivers in that role. Check out the change in Bakula/Archer in Season 3 -- much more pragmatic, almost ruthless. Bakula displays a good range of acting and responded when the writing improved. Some of his scenes like in "Damage" or "Dear Doctor" or "Cogenitor" are outstanding.

Overall, I think the ENT cast is better than TNG's in terms of overall acting ability. It's just that TNG, when it got it right, came up with stronger episodes, but it also had way too many terrible episodes. I've always enjoyed watching the character interactions on ENT like the Trip/Reed friendship, and even the few moments of Travis/Hoshi about being junior. I think ENT wanted to be a character-centric series and to some extent it achieved that. I think Bakula as an actor is a proven commodity and the Archer character was one I quite appreciated by the end of the series' run.
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Rahul
Thu, Jan 7, 2021, 10:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

DSC certainly doesn't hold back when it comes to a season finale and I think it tied up most loose ends, though there's plenty that is overly farfetched and it really hammers home the point (if you had any doubts) that the star of the show is Michael Fucking Burnham and whatever she does is right.

For me the best part was Saru with Su'Kal -- Doug Jones' acting is terrific here in trying to be caring/compassionate with the kid, trying to make him face his fears etc. That Su'Kal's flipping out caused the Burn was a bit hard to accept but my initial reaction in "Su'Kal" was more of a wait-and-see. In a way I'm disappointed that that's all there was to it but at least Culber/Adira gave some subspace dilithium technobabble explanation and we got to see how it happened when he realized his mother is dead.

The downside is just way too many action scenes that don't feel like Trek at all. Of course MFB and the Wicked Witch of the West would have a long fight -- that was to be expected. Certainly everybody had a role (with the exception of Stamets -- maybe his role was to do nothing). Book being able to run the spore drive perfectly while the warp core blows is a bit too much suspension of disbelief for me -- give me a break.

With MFB as captain now (where the DSC writers would feel she rightly belongs) I sure hope Saru is still a part of the series. Also, would expect Adm. Vance to continue -- probably the best part of the season for me was getting the fine actor that Oded Fehr is. Can't think of 1 weak scene with Adm. Vance.

The Adira/Grey bit didn't work -- like what are we supposed to take out of it all? There was a song Grey played and I thought it was supposed to be something related to the Burn -- but I must have missed what it meant (unless it is a loose end).

If one of the points of the season was about the connection between 2 people, I can see something with MFB/Book as well as Saru/Su'kal. They even throw in a Gene Roddenberry quote about connections (and play a better version of the TOS theme -- why?) But this whole notion just pops up at the end and is supposed to be another take-away along with everything else?

2.5 stars for "That Hope Is You, Part 2" -- just way over the top - a bit like "Zero Hour" but with a lot of MFB glorification. DSC had its cake and ate it too but I think looking at it critically, there's not a lot of substance here -- the writers try to force it on you rather than have it develop organically from the episode. So the Federation is on the right track, worlds are rejoining, which is what I thought would be the ultimate goal and ships will start warping all over the place again.

I'd say DSC's 2nd season was overall better than this 3rd season. A few too many weaker episodes in S3 and an overall arc that wasn't very compelling but it did give us "Forget Me Not" which is clearly the best thing DSC/PIC have done so far.
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Rahul
Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 5:12pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: There Is a Tide...

"Wicked Witch of the West" works far better for me than "Discount Seska" for Osyraa.

That's all I wanted to say.
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Rahul
Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:44pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: There Is a Tide...

Not a fan of this one with its abundance of action scenes all reminding me of similar scenes done better elsewhere and the usual DSC schmaltz / trying to inflate the gravitas. Bigger picture, the overall arc seems to be going all over the place -- is DSC now trying to make some kind of statement about getting capitalism (the Emerald Chain) and presumably socialism (the Federation) to cooperate somehow or more likely DSC is trying to make a statement that capitalism is bad due to its association with the EC and that socialism is superior due to its defacto adoption by the Federation? Whichever it is, what a dumb message to take on. And now the Burn seems to be a strawman as it could just be a device need that, as Vance said, created scarcity of resources and clouded the Federation's moral clarity (meaning made it more socialist?)

Anyhow, the only curious or moderately interesting part was the depth given to Osyraa who appears to be more than a cardboard villain and wants to join the Federation. Vance was good again -- great character and pretty good actor in terms of how he deals with Osyraa and reminding her that she has to stand trial or give herself up if she really wants to chart a new future. But that potential goes up in smoke as that's obviously a non-starter for Osyraa and she goes back to being a one-dimensional villain, blowing away Book's Andorian buddy.

Burnham is once again given the chance to play hero "Die Hard"-style on the ship with Zareh sending baddies after her. There's even the part where she hobbles barefoot while Zareh talks to her on the intercom -- could not help thinking of Bruce Willis in the Nakatomi Tower with the German terrorist... There's no way DSC should be attempting this as they will always fall short badly.

Also thought the bridge crew escaping was too easy -- even Trek's done this better with "Basics, Part II" or even "Shockwave, Part II" and those weren't even really good episodes.

DSC seems to lose focus at times and goes off on tangents that don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Like it's nice to get Ken Mitchell involved somehow, but his part chatting with Stamets about family etc. is a waste of time. Mitchell's character can't be that important, being introduced in the 2nd last episode.

And then out of nowhere the sphere data bots arrive to help Tilly retake the ship?? The writers are just pulling stuff out of their ass at this point.

2 stars for "There Is a Tide..." -- pretty mindless stuff. Preferred the creativity from "Su'Kal" over trying to re-hash old tropes. And as the season winds down, it shows less and less cohesion, for me. Osyraa's objectives are ridiculous if she truly understands the Federation and wants to be part of the symbol of hope that it is -- how can she think she can get away with her crimes -- unless she just doesn't understand the Federation? I don't think she was trying flat out deceive Vance. This episode does feel like some of these Trek episodes that just go for action/adventure without much substance -- maybe like ENT's "The Augments" or "Divergence" or even TOS's "Friday's Child". Looks like DSC S3 is another downer in the making.
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Rahul
Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 11:46am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Su'Kal

My issue with Reno is she doesn't come across as somebody who would realistically be in Star Fleet or some kind of engineer. It's fine for each individual to have their own sense of humor but her excessive snark doesn't feel right for Star Trek. Thus, it doesn't surprise me DSC is using Tig Notaro for cheap giggles. Much better, for example, is VOY's holographic doctor.
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Rahul
Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 9:42am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

@ Dave in MN

"Not to open up a can of worms, but isn't calling someone cis-male or cis-female also misgendering someone?"

I honestly don't know. I only heard/learned about "cis" like a few months ago when I saw it on Shatner's Twitter feed, which I think speaks to your comment on "revisionist linguistics". And it makes sense to me that it is "rife with hypocrisy."

I understand that I am a cis-male, given that I'm born as male and am heterosexual. Is that how it works? Is that all there is to it?

As for woke, adding on to my prior comment, this to me seems to be just another way for such people to blame others for any perceived injustices toward themselves. It's almost as if they want to be the victim so that they don't have to take responsibility for themselves, their actions and circumstances. Very convenient to be able to blame others for everything.
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Rahul
Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 5:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

@SlackerInc

"Sometimes you just have to laugh at the evolution of "woke" language on this topic."

Here you'll get no arguments from me. Absolutely.

It's as if coming up with new terminology to describe themselves only serves to alienate others as not woke. It gives the woke crowd more reason to lash out at those who seek to understand when they inevitably don't get the terminology right. Like for how long has "cis" been in the vernacular?
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Rahul
Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 4:54pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Su'Kal

@SlackerInc

" @Rahul: "the positives outweigh the negatives here for me and we actually have a good episode after 4 weak-to-OK efforts"

Wow, really? I thought two of the best episodes of the series were (IIRC) among those four, while this one was not very good albeit not among the very worst. "

There's no question there were a lot of little annoying negative things about this episode but the bulk of the story being the holodeck child-rearing program and how Burnham, Saru, Culber deal with it was pretty good. There is some intelligence and creativity here which I am acknowledging. There's not a lot the DSC writers get right, but they got the majority of this episode right.

As for the 4 immediately preceding episodes, there's no question in my mind that they are inferior to this one "Su'Kal". If you go by Jammer's rating, 2 of the 4 are the weakest of the season (2*), while a third (2.5* for "Unification III") might also be considered one of the season's weakest.
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Rahul
Fri, Dec 25, 2020, 9:35pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

@Aswold

DSC's basic comprehension of how Classic Trek has previously portrayed diversity and inclusion is completely messed up. A deeper issue I have is the broken moral compass of the show runners, which is always going to result in inferior Trek.

It is clear to me that DSC will almost exclusively portray human white heterosexual males negatively. Classic Trek didn't systematically "demonize" (a bit of strong word on my part) a race/gender/sexual orientation combo in the name of some enlightened vision of diversity or being progressive (or whatever the DSC show runners have in the back of their heads -- I suppose it is championing any other race/gender/sexual orientation combo).

I vaguely recall a post (I think by Peter G.) who suggested the Classic Trek way to champion a gay character would be to have him/her work on a problem with a MAGA white heterosexual human male and jointly come up with a solution with the straight male showing some kind of appreciation of the gay person's technical skill etc. That to me would represent one example of what Classic Trek stood for. DSC, however, would never do something like that. DSC is more likely to have the gay character blow the brains out of the MAGA white hetero human male and find the solution himself/herself and then be lauded for taking the appropriate actions.
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Rahul
Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 10:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: Su'Kal

I think there's enough to like about this episode which appears to be the 1st part of the grand finale, but it's weighed down by the usual DSC stupidity like excessive emoting, a poorly realized/characterized villain, Tilly as acting captain, and some farfetched action. As for resolving what the burn could be, so far it seems intriguing. I also liked Saru's role here (as is usually the case) although it showed a different side of the character embracing his culture and being more empathetic and less pragmatic.

The idea of a holo-world created to bring up the Kelpian child is a decent one and how it alters the appearances of Burnham, Saru, Culber to be consistent with the program was neat. That it's been going for 100 years is a bit of a stretch. I actually liked how Burnham tried to use this to her advantage to find out about the burn but the Kelpien child didn't like how the program (thinking Burnham is just another holo-character) was acting.

I suppose there's some symbolism -- perhaps not unlike in classic Trek -- with the monster attacking the Kelpien kid / facing fears as being responsible for the burn and getting a small taste of it wreaking havoc on the Discovery hints at what might have happened in the actual burn. So far this is at least half-decent.

But Osyraa sucks. It just brings down the IQ of the show with her and Tilly sniping at each other. Trying to think of how she could possibly command an empire and then I'm reminded of the terrible ENT episode "Bound" where the females are actually in charge despite being bought/sold as slaves. So maybe she's a product of that dynamic taken to the nth degree centuries later. In any case, the scenes with Osyraa just don't work if the show aspires to be more intelligent. Need a more complex villain here.

I have to take issue with the scenes leading up to the 3 going on the dangerous away mission -- just cut out this excessive emoting: Burnham encouraging Tilly as she steps into the captain's chair and the hugs etc. Then there's Stamets fretting about Culber etc. Every episode DSC does this kind of thing and it adds nothing.

Couple of other minor things annoyed me like Book's ship flying thru the asteroid field or whatever and morphing into all kinds of shapes. And then Osyraa's ship extending tentacles around the Discovery -- this is just excessive and ridiculous.

Barely 3 stars for "The Citadel" -- the positives outweigh the negatives here for me and we actually have a good episode after 4 weak-to-OK efforts. There's some creativity here, Saru's role is an interesting one, and nothing of significance is decidedly idiotic. What's more interesting is what kind of sci-fi and allegory might be behind the burn as opposed to dealing with Osyraa. I'm cautiously optimistic for the conclusion but won't be surprised to be unsatisfied after all is said and done.
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Rahul
Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 4:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S2: Chapter 16: The Rescue

@ Dave in MN
@ AMA

Thanks for the responses. I think it would bother me if there was some basic background I didn't have for MAND. And I don't know the SW-verse nearly as well as I know the Trek-verse. Like with PIC, not remembering some details from "Nemesis" bothered me but ultimately wasn't a killer for watching PIC S1.

But given the tremendously positive feedback MAND seems to be getting, it's probably worth taking the leap.
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Rahul
Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 9:35am (UTC -6)
Re: MAND S2: Chapter 16: The Rescue

I see so many glowing comments/reviews/ratings about “The Mandalorian” — certainly seems to be kicking DSC’s sorry butt. I’ve never been a big Star Wars fan. I’ve actually only seen the 3 original movies. My question is: Does one have to have seen all the Star Wars movies to be able to follow / understand / have the background needed to appreciate “The Mandalorian”?
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