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Quincy
Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 2:22pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

Gerontius
Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:54am (UTC -6)
"You can't abolish having headaches. But you can stop giving yourself a headache by banging your head on the wall.

There's nothing inevitable about stuff like racism. It gets drummed into people by the society in which they live."

But you'd have to have brain damage from banging your head on a wall for you to then make the claim that the fact that you quit banging your head on a wall magically made you immune to headaches.

The basis of racism is just prejudice. Prejudice exists because human beings categorize as a natural function of the way our brains evolved to deal with 1) the uncertainty and 2) the danger inherent in LIVING. If I evolved in a jungle, I wouldn't live long enough to pass on my genes if I sat around wondering if the big creature that kind of looks like the panther that tried to eat me last week were going to try to eat me, as opposed to automatically just running or hiding or fighting if necessary. The people alive today all descended from ancestors who didn't bother asking if a leopard was different than a panther or a lion. Nuance to a large degree doesn't matter in the wild.

We all have the instincts of our forebears. We don't magically lose those instincts just because we invent better socio-economic structures to live in. And since racism is derived from our instinct to trust that which is familiar and distrust that which is not, then unless you have something continuously fighting against it/ keeping it in check, then yes it would inevitably pop up somewhere in your society.
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Quincy
Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 1:48pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

@Brad Hinds
Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 11:25pm (UTC -6)
"Has anyone actually posited a serious argument that the Federation is or should be "rainbows and butterflies"? I find this questionable at best and reminds me of Sisko's equally specious remark in DS9 that Earth in the 24th century is a paradise.

I find it strange how some of you are quite hostile to even the faintest sense of optimism or idealism, especially the kind exemplified throughout Trek. What is it about it that triggers you so?"

Well, Trent just made this claim:

"The choice to veer away from Roddenberry's hyper-idealistic vision has always been a choice by individual writers who philosophically, politically or artistically hated or felt strangled by the vision. And its always been an unnecessary choice; any episode can make its same point without the Federation being portrayed as corruptible or corrupted."

According to Trent, a writer portraying the Federation as something that is "corruptible" is "an unnecessary choice." Corruptible simply means capable of being corrupted. We are to believe from Trent that the Federation is incapable of even the possibility of being corrupted, presumably because they have achieved that perfect socio-economic structure you mentioned.

How is that not properly described as "rainbows and butterflies"?

Hostile to optimism? No. Idealism? It depends. Is every Federation character on screen an idealist? Which ideals? Are there no variations left in Federation ideals? How do we even have conflict under such conditions and therefore a story? Federation vs. the Universe? Really?!?
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Quincy
Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 1:02pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

@Brad Hinds said:
"How dismissive and myopic. Human failings are not immutable. They are not fundamentally encoded in our DNA - they emerge from the many inadequacies and imperfections of our socio-economic structures. Who are you to say that in a future as depicted in Star Trek where the nature of those structures has shifted radically would not also radically change humans and for the better?"


Such a straw man. If I reference evolution that is the very definition of mutable. In any case, human failings are the TENDENCY to engage in vice and are derived from human nature. Pretty sure that if you look close enough at the DNA you'll the find root cause of every one of our tendencies. This has to be the case, because vices were around BEFORE the invention of socio-economic structures. What of socio-economic structure exists in a caveman that knocks a cave woman over the head and drags her back to his cave to rape her? What else is driving that caveman besides his instincts, which are dependent on his nature? Can we rise above it? Certainly. Why the hell would I post a Trekian quote that says:

"Vigilance, Mr. Worf. THAT IS THE PRICE WE HAVE TO CONTINUALLY PAY."

If that weren't the case? What the hell would vigilance do to something that was "immutable"? Will vigilance cure you of sickle cell? Cystic fibrosis?

So when I say "these DANGERS of xenophobic hysteria and other stupidities will ALWAYS be with us. " What exactly am I talking about? Well lets look up the definition of "danger" and it will immediately be clear that I'm talking about the same thing Picard was talking about:

dan·ger /ˈdānjər/ noun: the POSSIBILITY of suffering harm or injury.
Usage: "his life was in danger"
Synonyms: peril, hazard, RISK, jeopardy, endangerment, imperilment

Human failings will always be with us. The tendency of humans to succumb to vices will always be with us, unless we become something more than human. Better socio-economic structures can provide a framework to produce better humans, who fall victim less to human failings, but "Vigilance, Mr. Worf. THAT IS THE PRICE WE HAVE TO CONTINUALLY PAY" if we are to stave off the dangers that we WILL CONTINUALLY face.

So here "Who are you to say that in a future as depicted in Star Trek where the nature of those structures has shifted radically would not also radically change humans and for the better?" PICARD was the one who said it best. You need to go ask Picard this question, not me.

If you were correct, once you had your so-called perfect socio-economic structure, you could throw vigilance in the toilet and forget about it, because "radically changed" humans don't require any vigilance to keep them in check. It would be smooth sailing from then on. Tell me you don't really believe that. Picard sure as hell didn't.
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Quincy
Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 8:08pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

@Bold Helmsman

Glad someone else referred back to this. This absurd notion that the Federation is supposed to be all rainbows and butterflies and any story that deviates from that rosy picture is somehow bankrupt needs to stop.

Unless humans change fundamentally into something other than human by way of either genetic evolution or genetic engineering then these dangers of xenophobic hysteria and other stupidities will ALWAYS be with us.

Only ETERNAL vigilance as Picard indicates in TNG's Drumhead will keep it in check and prevent opportunists from taking control. It's an ongoing struggle that will never end, until humans end. Anybody claiming anything else is full of it.
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Quincy
Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 2:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

I'll just leave this here:

"Am I bothering you, captain?"
"No, please Mr. Worf, come in."
"It is over. Admiral Henry has called an end to any more hearings on this matter."
"That's good."
"Admiral Satie has left the Enterprise."
"We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. And then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly, it threatens to start all over again."
"I believed her. I-I HELPED her! I did not see what she was."
"Mr. Worf, villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well-camouflaged."
"I think, after yesterday, people will not be so ready to trust her."
"Maybe. But she or someone like her will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish – spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mr. Worf. THAT IS THE PRICE WE HAVE TO CONTINUALLY PAY."

- Worf and Picard, The Drumhead
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Quincy
Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 12:47am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

@Nolan

I originally thought she exploded too, but watching it at 1/4 speed all of the explosion appears to me to be from the disruptor or phaser or whatever it was.
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Quincy
Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 10:50pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

@Ian

Yeah, it was the phaser that caused the explosion. Dahj did look like the compound he spit up was eating her alive. It was dissolving both her clothing and her flesh and she screamed in extreme pain, so she was probably dead either way, unless they could've beamed her straight into a medical bay or stasis chamber.
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Quincy
Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 11:33am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

Booming said: "How did he know a 30 year old painting that Picard kept at the archives and that nobody accessed (Picard asked the computer)."

IMO the Data connection is too strongly foreshadowed and too well emphasized by Picard himself for these two new androids not to be directly descended from the work of Data himself. Even if Data isn't the one who rolled these off the assembly line, somebody with access to his work definitely did. If Data knew what he wanted his daughter to look like 30 years ago, anybody directly copying his work would also know. As has been pointed out, Maddox was in continued contact with Data over the years. I wouldn't be shocked if Data willed him his technological inheritance after his death.
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Quincy
Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 10:42am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

'@Jason R.

Aside from the fact that I love Picard and yet still recognize that an objective person should acknowledge that cringe worthy is cringe worthy wherever you find it, you made a great "rebuttal." Fail more entertainingly next time.
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Quincy
Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 2:49am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

I really enjoyed this pilot episode of STP (still hate that name, but what are you gonna do?). Looking at Picard's aging had me feeling my own. Time overcomes all challengers as Jammer indicates. Still, even with the bright shiny sheen, though, I got that old familiar Star Trek vibe from the episode. It was like a hybrid of the old and the new. Which makes this next post all the more hilarious:

@ OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
"Am I the only person here who is bothered by the fact that the Trekverse has been turned into some kind dystopia? It seems that the same people who had this exact same problem with Discovery, suddenly accept it now without any problem."

LMAO! Kind of illustrates exactly what I've been talking about. All of Discovery's sins become virtues when you thrust Jean-Luc into the forefront. People groaning and eye-rolling about too much Burnham don't even bat an eyelash at the absolutely CRINGE WORTHY title, Star Trek Picard. The ridiculosity is hilarious. Perhaps now you'll recognize that many (not all, but many) of those detractors came in bad faith anyway and held merely capricious and arbitrary objections in the first place. But perhaps you won't. In any case, I won't hold my breath. Any charges of "dystopia, dystopia," is overblown. Picard doesn't live in a dystopia; he lives in a more believable future than one exclusively made of rainbows and butterflies. As someone said above, "$#!% happens." If anything is to be expected of the future, it is that.
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Quincy
Thu, May 2, 2019, 8:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Trent

That's true. But then I'm not one of the ones claiming The Orville is the real Trek, while Discovery is "The Other Show™." So since the comparison has been made by multiple people, it has to be dealt with.
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Quincy
Thu, May 2, 2019, 8:31pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Gerontius

But there is something irrational about confronting people with different preferences and arguing as if your personal preferences were objectively better. Hence, my point.
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Quincy
Thu, May 2, 2019, 8:12pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Elliot cameo FTW!!!

OmicronThetaDeltaPhi says:
"Or in less dramatic, less confrontational terms: Liking/disliking a show is an emotional reaction, and people tend to give more leeway to shows that they like.

The way you posted it, it sounds like you made a shocking revelation of some corrupt conspiracy, when you've simply stated the obvious."

Dave in MN was pulling an Alan Roi. I respond to him in kind. You then walk past all of that to admonish me about being confrontational? Really?!? Have you met Alan Roi?! Because, you don't seem to be aware of how ridiculous that state of affairs happens to be. It's hilarious how people want to police my tone, but they never seem to police the tone of the people I'm replying to in the first place.

If I was making a "shocking revelation of some corrupt conspiracy," why in the world would I refer to it as a "lampshade"? What is the definition of "lampshading" and how does it apply to Galadriel's statement? And what's the relevance of it in my comment to Dave? Please, try to at least think about these questions before replying.



OmicronThetaDeltaPhi says:
"At any rate, here is an interesting question that you might want to think about: WHY are so many people fans of the Orville? Sure, it's an emotional decision. But why? Hint: it's not because the show excels at (or even attempts to be) hard sci fi."

I would assume they like it for many of the same reasons I do. It's funny sometimes and gives you that old Trek nostalgia. It's got good special effects, a decent cast, and it's science fiction, for god's sake. What's not to like?

But waitaminute! Hint? Was that your version of a "shocking revelation"? Cause I gotta tell you. I'm at least as underwhelmed as you were.



OmicronThetaDeltaPhi says:
"But it's a matter of degree. In the Orville it happens occasionally, and most of the time it isn't too difficult to retcon the nits away. In Discovery, on the other hand, the entire show made a complete mess of previous Trek continuity. The situation was so hopeless that the show runners were forced to go the "let's pertend the previous two seasons never happened" route. That's a pretty big difference, I'll say."

Discovery did mess with continuity. That's undeniable. Yes, this does annoy me, like a lot of other people. However, you seem to be speaking out of both sides of your fingertips. On the one hand, you're calling me Mr. Obvious for bothering to point at the subjective nature of it all. (Possibly, because you didn't see what I was actually pointing at.) On the other hand, now you seem to be reaching for some nonexistent objectivity.

it's a matter of degree... TO YOU. That's what's important... TO YOU. Other people are looking at things from an entirely different point of view. I for one like both Discovery and The Orville. And I can look at any given episode of either and admit when something is ridiculous. This episode of the Orville was ridiculous.
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 7:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Dave in MN

Go watch that episode where The Orville dives into 2D space. Then come back and watch this episode where they dive into the event horizon of a black hole. Note the very obvious difference, besides the fact that that episode was actually funny. That's actually what I was expecting. There's a singular problem. The Krill are coming to kill them. The quantum drive is down. The only way out is for them to dip into 2D space and escape. But, how does a 3D life form survive in 2D space? LaMarr realizes that, while the engine realignment is keeping them from going to quantum speed, the quantum field generator is working. They figure out that they can use it to place a quantum bubble around the ship. Isaac explains that the bubble is maintaining a third dimension outside of 2D space for the Orville to safely exist in.

Let's put aside for a moment that the nonexistence of our third dimension isn't exactly the same phenomenon as crushing gravity. Look at how the two episodes handled the phenomenon. In New Dimensions they spend 30 seconds screen time discussing the idea, because the idea is clearly NUTS. They don't have much choice; the Krill are coming to kill them in 14 minutes of in universe time and the quantum drive is out. Ed makes a command decision. They spend about 1 minute screen time implementing the idea and working out the issues. They leave right before the Krill show up. It's touch and go inside 2D space, but they just barely squeak out a win and when they come out the Krill are gone. They breathe a sigh of relief at their very narrow victory. It makes logical sense that the Krill might not know exactly where they went or what the hell to do about it if they did. It also makes logical sense that they might not care since the ship with their stolen guns is floating right there in front of them and they can get their cargo back and be on their merry way.

In this episode, the Kaylon are coming to kill them. Their quantum drive just got knocked out again. They can't escape, so they need somewhere to hide. Ed's idea is to hide inside the black hole. The idea is obviously NUTS. They spend 15 seconds discussing this obviously fruit loop idea. LaMarr says if they dip inside the black hole just beyond the event horizon they should be safe. They fly directly into black hole AT FULL SPEED AHEAD, yet somehow stop just inside the event horizon. (Law of conservation of momentum anybody?!? Those must be American made quantum engines, built Ford tough!) Remember that none of them know anything about the 2D space event, as this is a different timeline. Kelly is the only one who MIGHT know of it, since she spent time reading her future self's logs. (Here's a novel concept; why the hell doesn't she bring this up?!? It would've taken 1 minute and 30 seconds like it did the first time. If she had, I MIGHT NOT have a problem with at least that part of this silly episode! Funny that, huh?)

LaMarr also said the Kaylons won't see them because light can't escape. Now really think about that for a moment. Didn't the Kaylons see them fly their asses into the black hole? It certainly looked like they did. They hung around outside for two days searching for something. Didn't the Kaylons wonder why they'd fly into a black hole willingly rather than just fight it out if they wanted to die so badly? Then they just fly right out of the event horizon. Contrary to popular belief, there is no bubble around the ship. We can clearly see the bubble you mentioned in New Dimensions. We see absolutely no bubble in Road Not Taken. There is no mention of the field generator being active despite the drive being down. There's no mention of anything. They just fly in and fly out like it's totally routine to site see inside the event horizon of a black hole. But if it's as routine to do what they did, why wouldn't the Kaylons do it too? They have the quantum drive too. And theirs weren't offline. Not only that, they can literally transfer their consciousness through their internet connection, so unlike the humans there's absolutely no danger if they screw up, just a loss of equipment. You're telling me you don't see the logical inconsistency here?

Lets stop pretending. What's really going on with your arguments is something else entirely. Lets look at the nice fat lampshade posted by Galadriel (you know... the other person that leaped to the defense of this obviously idiotic episode) that's sitting somewhere above this post:

Galadriel says:
"I’d probably pan The Other Show™ merci­less­ly for these plot­holes. But strange­ly, they don’t affect me as badly in this show. Maybe I am a hypo­crite..." (FULL STOP)

See this is what I'm talking about. There's a cult of personal preferences at work here, not only with Galadriel, but with you as well. You've DECIDED you don't like Discovery and you DECIDED that you do like the Orville. Now you're pretending that you have rational reasons for both of those purely emotional decisions. However, ALL detractors arguments against Discovery are ALL applicable here; this episode was flat out absurd. Lets look at your arguments. You don't like Discovery crapping all over Canon CONTINUITY across multiple franchises separated by decades. However The Orville craps all over its own CONTINUITY within a single season by having Kaylons not being aware some of them are being attacked by humans in the previous Kaylon two parter. Meanwhile, as others point out here in this episode, Kaylons are instantaneously aware that a disassembled unit is being downloaded and hacked, because all Kaylons everywhere are interlinked. Dafuq?!? Explain your way out of this one if it helps you sleep better tonight. But, I promise you, you won't be convincing me of anything without better logic than you've presented here today.
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 3:58pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Jim1701
"@Quincy......

You can get your point across, if you have one, without the language.

This is a forum for discussion and points can be made without fuc*ing
this and fuc*ing that."

Hmm. Honest question. Are you Jammer and you just changed your name?
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 3:03pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Holy $#!%, Batman!

Dave in MN is arguing that $#!% that obviously doesn't make any sense actually made sense!!!

He's a god damned Orville flavored Alan Roi!!! Somebody call a physicist or Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson or Michio Kaku!!! We must have ran into a quantum filament or some $#!% like that!!!
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:54pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I'm 24 minutes in and I'm like dafuq?!? They flew into the event horizon of a fucking black hole. A fucking black ass hole, people. They hang out for a few minutes watching the pretty Kalon dance show at the MGM Black Hole Grand. Then they just fly the fuck out of the event horizon like it's easy peasy lemon squeezy?!? Even Interstellar was like, we got to take a stroll through the 5th dimension to get out of this mother lover.

Once again, dafuq?!?
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I'm 11 minutes in and I'm like dafuq?!? Ed's penis being barred from Kelly's vagina has caused the destruction of "half the galaxy." Once again, dafuq?!?
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Quincy
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 7:01pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Pointing out flawed arguments, while simultaneously describing how the scene is actually stupid, doesn't even rise to the level of a backhanded compliment, let alone an apology.
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Quincy
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 4:17pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@wolfstar

"This explains the retconning of the signals. Brother introduces the seven original signals, which all appear over a 24-hour period, are mapped by Starfleet and drawn by young Spock in a premonition. The new signals that happen after that in New Eden and The Sound Of Thunder are correctly treated not as part of the original seven but as *additional signals*. It's only later on in the season (after Berg and Harberts had gone) that these were retconned as being the second and third signal (which they clearly weren't). In the Kurtzman half of the season, new signals that follow are then explicitly referred to as "the fourth of seven" and "the fifth of seven" etc."

There's a problem with this point of view. The signals were only "mapped by Starfleet" in a very general sense. Brother explicitly states that Starfleet couldn't get a definite "fix" on all seven signals. They only had generalized locations for them. The signals came and went too fast. And when they attempted to scan for a definite location their instruments went haywire. Saru speculates that they are temporal in nature and that's why they can't get a reading on them. Only the first signal's definitive location is revealed by the "stabilized" signal in that episode. Pike himself says so, as well as the Enterprise crewman that got killed. That automatically means they intended to countdown the signals one by one from the very beginning, as each location was sent a stabilized signal and triangulated.

I'm pretty sure Burnham was always supposed to be in the red suit, if for no other reason than she's always the focus of the series.

At this point, reading over some of the comments, I can see many of Alan Roi's frustrations with this board. Multiple people ask the same questions or raise the same issues that have already been answered. When they are answered, it is hardly ever acknowledged that they have been answered. For instance, with regard to the blast doors. Yes, to me, it is a stupid scene, but not for the reasons most people keep raising. Multiple people, John Harmon, Karl Zimmerman, Trent, Kinematic, raise the issue that it's somehow odd that the one torpedo didn't destroy the entire ship. To one of which, Alan makes this reply:

Alan Roi
"@Kinematic

We've seen plenty of ships in Star Trek that have been damaged by photon torpedos and are still partially intact. However Federation starships are built, its enough not to be hit by a photon torpedo and go poof."

This is only acknowledged by one person, as far as, I can see, who speculated all those ships had their shields up. This statement is demonstrably false, as this scene from Undiscovered Country indicates, where two unshielded ships take direct hits from a single photon torpedo apiece without being destroyed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg58hVEY5Og

The evidence in this movie is quite conclusive. No. One photon torpedo is not going to destroy an entire Federation level ship, even an unshielded one, unless it hits in a particularly vulnerable spot. Other than the bridge, the Federation star ship saucer section isn't a particularly vulnerable spot. We see that very clearly in the clip I posted from a universally loved Star Trek movie.

To me, the main things wrong with that scene are 1) no attempt to beam out the Admiral 2) one lever on the side most likely to trap a crewman trying to seal off a section, 3) no attempt to try one of those probe/drones used previously for repairs to trigger the blast door, and 4) Pike standing there looking retarded, instead of running for his fucking life. A single torpedo NOT destroying the entire ship is NOT one of the things wrong with that scene.

And can people please stop complaining about what are most likely transparent aluminum windows in the blast door and the spore drive chamber. You know, the same material that comprised a "60 by 10 tank" with only one inch thick walls, holding "18,000 cubic feet of water," not to mention, two full grown humpback whales. Why people thought Cyber Leland should punch through something they felt comfortable putting the Tardigrade alien in is beyond me.
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Quincy
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 12:42am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@wolfstar
"Something else just occurred to me: the crystal-powered time suit allows Burnham to jump to different times, but how does she jump through space as well? She jumps tens of thousands of light years back and forth across the galaxy, to the USS Hiawatha -> Terralysium -> Kaminar -> Boreth -> Zahea, just in her suit, and the only technology we've seen that is able to do that is the spore drive. Ditto Momma Burnham. Are we supposed to assume that the time crystals have the power to create wormholes that instantly teleport people across the galaxy as well as through time?"

She's using wormholes. The main thing that wormholes do is bridge two points in space. If it's possible in the story to create them from scratch, why would this be a problem?
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Quincy
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 1:26pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

PLEASE, Jammer make an Expanse section!

C'mon, Alan Roi. It's like you actually believe Discovery is perfect. I understand a spirited defense against the haters that won't even give Discovery a chance or who nitpick it to death, but you behave as if there's nothing about it worth criticizing. IMO ALL Star Trek series were mostly atrocious in their first 2 seasons. Discovery for me has been more entertaining than most of them, during its first two seasons. However, there are clear issues with it deserving of criticism. That blast door scene was absurd. I don't see how you can't just admit that and move on. What you're doing is similar to a TNG fan arguing that the scene in 'Conspiracy,' where Picard dodges phaser fire AFTER the phaser was actually fired, wasn't absurd. That makes your "spirited defense" much less credible.

I've had similar criticisms about every single Star Trek Series. Kirk had to be involved in everything. He had to go on all the best away missions and be the one coming up with most of the solutions to most of the problems. "Let me do something!" Spock of all people couldn't beat him in chess. (Dafuq?!?) Only Kirk could figure out the alien's weakness to light in Operation Annihilation! (Dafuq?!?) Kirk had to be the one to physically fight Kahn, when Spock is the one trained in martial arts and almost as strong as Kahn. (Dafuq?!?) I remember being 12 years old watching Star Trek reruns and complaining about this out loud and my whole family laughing about how putrid it was. Guess what? It was putrid then and it's just as puke worthy now that Burnham's the one doing it.

@Boomer
That was... asinine. I thought you'd stopped interacting with me? Could've sworn that was one of your posts?! Notice how I stopped talking to you at the precise instant you did. In this case, I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking about that Axiom person with that dog whistling nonsense about "misogynist REACTIONARY claims."
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Quincy
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:46pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Wil Wheaton has talked about people approaching him and criticizing Wesley Crusher at Star Trek conventions. There's no debate about how much he was hated. There just wasn't an Internet to spread the anti-love around, during TNG's run.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/97243/what-was-the-general-contemporary-reaction-to-wesley-crusher-as-a-character/97244#97244
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Quincy
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:29pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Chrome

"I seem to remember that in Q Who the Enterprise was tossed to Beta"

"Nope."

According to Star Trek: Star Charts (p. 13) and Stellar Cartography: The Starfleet Reference Library ("Federation Historical Highlights, 2161-2385"), System J-25 (FGC-J25) was located in the Beta Quadrant. - From Memory Alpha

The Borg Collective controlled much of the Delta Quadrant. That's apparently their home quadrant. If you look at the quadrant map on Memory Alpha, depending on exact origin and destination, you see there's a good chance you'll pass through the Beta quadrant on your way to the Alpha quadrant from the Delta Quadrant. The Borg were on their way to Earth due to the signal sent in Star Trek: Enterprise, "Regeneration."
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Quincy
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:05pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

I really enjoyed this episode for the most part. Even though they had to mar the ending with more maudlin displays of worship from Spock right when time is of the essence, on the whole the ending was a lot better than I was expecting. I really hope there will be a season 3 and that season continues in the future with the Discovery crew. I really don't want a Pike oriented show. I didn't like Mount's portrayal of Pike, unlike most other people apparently. Strange, since I loved him on Hell on Wheels. He was way too low key for me. I remember Pike on TOS as being more aggressive than that. Sorry, not sorry. Don't want to see Star Trek: Pike next season.

This is a golden opportunity to pick up the show in the future. I think the cast could really come into its own next season. I've got my fingers crossed that there will be a next season. If it continues, I have high hopes for the show.

Their bringing back the Doctor annoyed me. However, his love proclamation wasn't quite (by a hair) as putrid as I expected it to be. At least, he stopped treating Stamets like $#!% for no reason under the sun. I guess you kind of needed him back since they didn't do anything to develop the other doctor, who was so generic I can barely remember her and I just watched the episode.

Some other things that annoyed me. I knew Control would be defeated in some simple, lackluster fashion. There wasn't enough time left in the season for anything else. Somehow an obviously distributed A.I. that can effectively control multiple ships is defeated by taking down a single iteration of it, using a technique used on it before? Really?!? Also, Saru's sister, the sudden onset fighter pilot?! Dafuq?!? If it had properly been set up, it would've been epic. They partially laid the groundwork with the Kelpien centered episode. All we needed was some indication of the two species working together under Starfleet direction.

I thought they were going to have the Queen go with them to the future, but nope. I would prefer she go rather than that @$$#0l3 Reno or whatever her name is. I was starting to like her character. Sorry to see her go. However, I guess the bright side of that is I don't have to see her constantly interacting with Tilly. More Queen = more Tilly. No Queen = less Tilly?! Maybe?!?

The time suit opens up a new possibility. Even if they get rid of the time aspect, the suit can travel by means of wormholes. They could revamp to power it using nothing but dark matter, get rid of the time crystal, and retrofit Discovery to use wormhole technology for FTL instead of the Spore drive. Only problem is I think Stamets wouldn't have anything to do without the Spore Drive and I'm hoping they don't kill him off. I don't remember all of his expertise but it was mainly concerning the spore lifeforms and the drive. Although he did help in constructing the suit, so maybe he'll just be an engineer afterwards or science officer. That begs the question of why you would need Reno if Stamets can do her job?

P.S.
Jesus Christ on a crucifix. Invasion of the Thought Police much? Just... stahp with the doublespeak and doublethink. I came to talk about Discovery, a show I like and have high hopes for. Animal farmers showing up policing tone, language, and thought processes is like eye torture. Just shout in all capitals, "LANGUAGE!," like Captain America in Age of Ultron, and be done with it. It's much shorter, about as substantive, and won't derail the conversation.
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