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Quincy
Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 7:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Yeah. Because the rest of Starfleet has a squeaky clean record on the infiltration/penetration front. Nobody wants Discovery's cooties!!! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

In any case, that's besides the point. I don't ask that Discovery's crew be clued in to all that's going on in the Milky Way. I ask that the viewers receive proper foreshadowing and depiction of prominent events in the Control arc. You know? Like $#!% leading up to the climax of the god damn season.

By your logic, if Lord of the Rings Trilogy focused wholly and solely on Frodo's mission to dispose of the ring with only nebulous hints of the larger battle against Sauron and his forces that makes for wonderful storytelling. We don't need to hear about Gandalf, Aragorn, or Isengard. To hell with the Army of the Dead vs Gothmog's forces. All that is above Frodo's pay grade anyway and therefore ours too. In fact, Frodo is all we'll ever need to see to understand that story. So put the spotlight on his @$$ and don't move it an inch!!!

Yes. That was just to see Michael. That's why they warped away after doing just that. Do you have any evidence otherwise?

Admiral Cornwell has been on hand since her first rendezvous with Discovery. How would that suddenly indicate she was there specifically for a last ditch effort to stop Control?

Ok, now that you've knocked down your straw man can we take a look at what I actually said?

Me: "The problem with that idea is that they have NO WAY even hinted at of stopping Control. Logically, they shouldn't be able to stop control with the resources they have available versus what he's bringing to the table. There's no type of allusion to a plan beyond fast forwarding Discovery. With the lack of foreshadowing on HOW they plan to confront Control, such notions ring hollow. Therefore there can only be an ass pull in the next episode if indeed they do end up stopping Control."

Clearly, I'm talking about HOW they plan to confront Control. There's been no mention of how they even plan to approach this. Meanwhile, we've known for quite a few episodes how important time crystals, dark matter, etc will play into the role of Discovery's mission to protect the Sphere data. For the climax of the battle against Control, all we have now is "Let me do something!"
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 1:33am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

I have a feeling that the Queen's dilithium rejuvenation trick is going to be used to regenerate the time crystal itself so they can all get home. Otherwise, I don't see why she's going along. I actually would prefer that Discovery remain in the future. I've wanted all along to see events occurring in the time period after Voyager's return.

Lynos questioned the point of stopping them from firing the torpedoes. He says, "I assume Michael's conclusion is that firing on Discovery will lead to a chain of events that will result in Control taking over." That's correct IMO. She's trying to interrupt the future she's just witnessed twice. People point out that there's no connection to the premonitions Burnham sees consecutively on the bridge. That's actually irrelevant. The real point is that nothing has changed between the time they decided to destroy Discovery and when she first touched the time crystal to when they're about to try to do so. She still sees their deaths at Control's hands, as she did when she touched the crystal. What this means from her perspective is that the track they were on right up to her seeing that game over premonition the second time, WHATEVER PRECEDED IT (this means you Sphere shields up premonition), is the wrong track. It is imperative they get off that track. Hence her urgency.

She doesn't know what Reno sees after they decide to use the crystal. If you look closely at Reno's vision. It's slightly different than Burnham's. You have to rewind and slow mo it to see it, but Control attacks engineering in Reno's vision, instead of the bridge. And this time Georgiou is standing next to the security officer in engineering with phasers out ready, instead of Georgiou getting knocked to the floor on the bridge and getting shot before she can regain her footing. So it appears, Burnham already changed something with this new plan from what was originally slated to happen. Stamets also appears to be seriously injured in Reno's vision. I do hope they're not planing on killing him off.

Yes it's odd that they automatically accept her conclusion without any corroboration and without any alternative. However, I believe what they are showing is very similar to how Picard often accepts Data's word without any corroboration, even over Commander Riker's, as he did in Cause and Effect. Yes, I know Burnham is no Data. However, I believe that they were trying to show the crew's imminent trust in Burnham. What they should've done instead is simply had her tell Pike she touched the crystal. Pike would instantly know the gravity of what she was saying, due to having touched the time crystal himself. Being the captain, he would overrule any objections.

I believe Alan Roi is implying that the "advantage" of sitting there with the Sphere data is baiting Control to draw it in to stop it. The problem with that idea is that they have no way even hinted at of stopping Control. Logically, they shouldn't be able to stop control with the resources they have available versus what he's bringing to the table. There's no type of allusion to a plan beyond fast forwarding Discovery. With the lack of foreshadowing on how they plan to confront Control, such notions ring hollow. Therefore there can only be an ass pull in the next episode if indeed they do end up stopping Control. I don't guess they're just going to magnetize the floor again. Control would've thought up a contingency by now.
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Quincy
Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 8:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Wow. Terrible episode. Really disappointed. You're supposed to save your best for last. The writers did exactly the opposite. All the maudlin displays of endearment just went on forever. We're approaching the climax of the arc. Yet the writers are bogging us down in personal issues. The current star trek movies do the same things. This seems to be a millennial oriented quirk, where the world is ending and you take time to talk about your relationship, even though time is of the essence. That said, it's ridiculous that the Doctor just discarded Stamets like excess litter, even though he's less of an ahole this week. At this point, Stamets just needs to move on. Hopefully, the Doctor really will go with Enterprise and we won't see him next season.

Their strategy just made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why didn't they retrieve the queen and then immediately jump to a secure location, where they'd have more time to work on the suit? I know the setup with the countdown until Control is on that ass is for suspense's sake, but it's not suspenseful when it's totally unnecessary. Not to mention, they're so lackadaisical about imminent throw down. They don't even have their shields up when Control drops out of warp. Why the hell didn't Control start beaming infiltrators on board, like instantaneously?!?

How does this stop Control anyway? It only protects the Sphere data and keeps Control from leveling up immediately into something unstoppable. However, Control at this point is powerful enough to just keep assimilating people until it has enough bodies to do exactly what it wants to do. In fact, I don't even see why it's forcing a confrontation now. It doesn't need the Sphere data anymore. If I were Control I'd take my Section 31 star ships and assimilate world after world in the boondocks until I had so much industrial economy of scale that I could build a million star ships to roll over the galaxy.

I don't see why writers write themselves into corners like this. I know it's sometimes difficult to see the pitfalls in your own writing, but they have an editorial staff I'm sure.
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Quincy
Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 3:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

@Artymiss
I did get his name right. He's as phony as a frakking skinjob, cylon!

Sorry, not sorry. Just binge watched Battlestar Galactica.

@Boomer

That has nothing to do with anything I said. I was speaking informally, although, I know it helps you in your fake outrage to lie to yourself that I wasn’t. I made a simple metaphor that apparently triggered you. And now you’re butthurt over your own deliberate misinterpretation. You might as well borrow a pain stick from Worf and beat yourself into a coma. Sucks to be you, I know, but that’s a personal problem.

Since you asked, a man would be a side-wench if he was a piece of ass on the side for some other person, male or female, in a committed relationship. The proper term going around is side-bitch. I went with wench. As the urban dictionary states: wench a slightly less offensive term similar in meaning to "bitch."

What’s a side-bitch? Side bitch: When one person in a committed relationship suspects the other is being unfaithful to HIM/HER, by cheating with someone else secretly on the side.
Regan: "I know Meredith is cheating on me. He's been acting weird lately." 
Holden: "Weirder than usual? It could be all in your head." 
Regan: "No, no, no. He definitely has a side bitch--and that side bitch is CASSIDY."

In the context in which I used the term it was simply a play on words between getting screwed, meaning getting a raw deal (that we all know Pike is going to get), and getting screwed, meaning having sex. It literally could’ve been sex with anybody. It’s very similar to when we’ve all heard somebody say after getting a raw deal, “If you’re going to screw me, buy me dinner first!” Only a moron would suddenly think that the person was serious about dinner and a screw, or had some over-abiding agenda (the hatred of women) beyond his comment. I very nearly said, “he couldn’t be any more screwed if he was Georgiou’s side-bitch!” But Georgiou isn’t in a committed relationship, so I went with Stamets. Too bad I can’t take a trip back in time to see what other silly argument you would’ve come up with if I had used Georgiou. Of course, Pike’s not actually Stamets’s side piece, nor was I suggesting he was, nor do I have any beliefs concerning gay people, nor do I have any agendas concerning gay people. It was literally wholly and solely a play on words and nothing else but what's actually on the page. EVERYBODY saw that except you. Like I said. Sucks to be you.

He’s getting screwed because he’s literally being screwed by somebody. That’s literally the case. This is not rocket science. It’s plain English, even if it’s informal. Urban Dictionary says exactly what I meant: screwed a more subtle substitute for the word "fucked" 

1. describes someone WHO JUST HAD SEX 

2. the position that is a result of a problem or bad situation that seems impossible to solve/get out of
1. "Dude, I think Sean screwed her last night." 

2. "We have our exam TODAY?! Dammit, I'm so SCREWED!"

It was a juxtaposition of definitions of the word screwed and went no farther than that. I can’t believe I have to parse the English for you, but here we are. All that nonsense you posted was literally nowhere else but your imagination.

I believe I’ve said this to you before, during another one of your fake outrage events. I’ve never in my life referred to a mentally disabled person as “retarded.” A person with a mental disability is simply moving at the speed god gave him or her to move at. Therefore, it’s incorrect to say they’re retarded. So-called normal people, however, who should be able to put 2 and 2 together, who somehow can’t crunch the numbers are indeed moving much slower than they should be and can rightfully be referred to as “retarded.”

In actuality, though, I didn’t call you retarded. I called your post retarded. And I also never called you constipated. I asked if you were basing your flawed interpretation on some level of constipation. It helps to be precise, during arguments.

You most certainly are 1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue. That’s actually what you’re doing right now: virtue signaling. It’s easy to recognize, because I’ve seen it before. It’s the favorite pastime of self-styled SJWs, one of the newest religions on the scene. Move over Scientology! You’re saying look at me; I stand up against bigotry (nonexistent homophobia, eww! Scary!) and oppression (imaginary misogynistic “microaggressions”)! I’m a good boy! Meanwhile, you’re as phony as a three dollar bill, or you’d be out fighting real battles (poverty, child abuse, child molestation, famine, war), instead of harassing folks, who use colorful words you don’t like, on the Internet.

Intolerance? (never understood why people cradle that word. What exactly am I supposed to be tolerating? If no one is bothering me, there’s absolutely nothing to be tolerant of. Just live and let live. Gay people aren’t bothering me, so there’s quite literally (I know I keep using that word, but for extra thick skulls, you gotta drive the point home) NOTHING to tolerate about gay people, who aren’t engaged in screwing (?!?) on my front lawn.) Finding “intolerance” where non exists, so you can pretend to be outraged is most certainly the work of an intolerant fool. SJWs like you are every bit as intolerant as those people who faked all that outrage over Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the national anthem. You should all go get a room together and drive each other up a wall for all eternity.

"And now my dear I can only say..."

*snip*
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Quincy
Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 11:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

@Boomer

Wow. That post was retarded.

Never been to 8chan. Don't even know what that is. I've only heard about the 4chan website. I don't go there either.

You know how metaphors work, don't you? That's really all it is a play on words. Anyone reading it knows that, but you. Meanwhile, you're busy re-imagining an entire misplaced transgression based on, who knows? How constipated you are today?

Literally, the only person expressing intolerance is you! Congratulations on being a hypocrite!
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Quincy
Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 12:27am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

@Booming

There was quite literally neither homophobia, nor misogyny anywhere in my post.

Somebody can't see straight.

You really need to get that sudden onset macular degeneration checked before you're walking around like Spock in "Operation Annihilate."
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Quincy
Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 12:02am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

@Alan Roi

You really don't know what you're talking about. I'm not questioning whether or not Burnham knows how to fight. That's irrelevant to her arm strength. I'm specifically talking about when she's on the ground in a compromised position. Control is leaning all of his weight on top of her and trying to jab a needle in her eye and somehow she's magically strong enough to hold the needle off until Spock can grab him and pull him off of her.

Then in the very next few seconds Spock doesn't have the strength to prevent Control from twisting his arm and tossing him across the room, even though he started in a superior position from behind. That's ARM STRENGTH, NOT martial arts. Spock has way more of it than even a human male, but with greater strength and a better position he fails were she succeeded? Unless you're going the claim she was summoning her Vulcan Chi to hold Control off, then that quite literally has fuck all to do with "martial arts." Burnham shouldn't have been capable of doing what she did, unless SHE IS PHYSICALLY STRONGER THAN SPOCK. We know that that's not the case.

You know. People wouldn't be so confused about my posts, if they actually took their own advice and paid attention to what they were reading. I guess this it too much to ask for certain people.
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Quincy
Sun, Apr 7, 2019, 8:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

I was initially annoyed that Pike went down on the away mission. I felt my old familiar annoyance at a Starfleet captain constantly going on away missions, like when Kirk had the con. Funny that people think SMG being involved in everything started with Discovery, when it really started with TOS and Kirk. "Let me do something!" Don't know if anyone gets that reference, but had the Internet been around then that would've been a major meme with the reaction critics and fans had to it. Damn. Pike can't catch a break. Pike always gets the "pike" in every single timeline. Guess he should've taken his mama's maiden name. He couldn't be anymore screwed if he was Stamets' side wench.

Which brings me to how putrid the whole thing with Stamets and the doctor is. His treating Stamets like $#!% doesn't make any sense. And Discovery RomCom is a stretch under the best of circumstances. God I wish he'd stayed dead. His sudden death was one of the most impactful moments in the first season. And his return from the alien, dirty booger transporter was completely retarded. That scene with Reno ratcheted up the gag factor past 11. When she was introduced, I really thought she was going to be a good character for the show. It's been downhill ever since.

I laughed when Control told Burnham that he'd cross the distance in .8 seconds and break her hand. He certainly didn't move that fast when Georgiou was whooping his ass, but maybe he's had an upgrade. And wth was he waiting on anyway? Control set all this up to get Burnham by herself and he spends the time screwing around, when he could've just walked up behind her before she realized and infected her with his nanites. I really hate when villains give heroes time to respond, when they should be winning the fight. So easy to write scenes where the hero already has time to respond or is barely able to keep up enough to respond to a villain's moves. So annoying that writers choose not to do that. Also, Burnham manages to keep Control from plunging her eyeball with his nanite needle, but Spock who's 3 to 4 times stronger than a human male almost gets his arm broke? Really?! Does Control really not want to win this fight?

All in all, despite these issues, I enjoyed the episode. I think both the A and B plot worked.
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Quincy
Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 11:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Perpetual Infinity

@Galadriel

"However, the entire Angel trap plot was nonsensical.

α) It relies on the supposed motivation of the Angel not to let Burn­ham die. The Angel, how­ever, knows about the out­come of the set­ting if it does not inter­vene. Therefore, the trap should have been con­struct­ed in a way that guar­an­tees Michael’s death if the Angel re­mains ab­sent. Why should the Angel save her if she will get re­viv­ed even­tual­ly? You can’t bluff an entity from the future.

β) Even if the Angel were Burnham, there is no need for her to save Prime Burn­ham if the Angel is Burnham from another time line.

γ) As it turn out, the Angel is not Micheal, and has seen Michael die in many time lines before. So why, then, did the trap work? I can think only of one rea­son: Gabrielle read it in the script."



α) That's true. That's why Spock takes things as far as he does. However, this begs the question of why the others weren't already aware that things had to go that far. Are we to assume their emotions simply wouldn't let them approach this matter in anything more than a half ass fashion, I wonder?

β) No. If that alternate timeline was directly generated by Burnham's original existence then it wouldn't be an independent timeline at all, It would be a curve that depends on Burnham surviving to eventually get the suit. Take her out the curve collapses. A.I. wins.

γ) She hadn't yet given up on that portion of that timeline. She's returning to the past to make changes, some big some small. She brought Discovery to the Sphere, so that they could protect the Sphere's data. She was still working on that particular timeline, making small adjustments. That was her latest plan which she came up with in mission log 799. She only decided to scrap it (which would be a major adjustment) after she was captured by discovery.
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Quincy
Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 9:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Perpetual Infinity

I enjoyed this episode, but there are some problems with it.

I don't like this Christopher Pike. I remember Pike as more of a strong-headed kind of guy in TOS. This dude is so chill he's almost comatose. People disobey his orders constantly and he doesn't even chew them out. This whole operation was a serious fuck up. Some actual security measures would've prevented most of what happened. Pike already didn't trust Leland or Section 31. Why didn't he have somebody keep an eye on them? Why didn't Pike fire at will, not only on the surface, but at the Section 31 ship? He already knew Control had a substantial portion of the Sphere data. It's imperative he stop that from being assimilated. He should've been lighting that ship up as soon as he got the warning from Tyler. It would've been a great excuse to kill off Tyler. I'm pretty much sick of him. He's so inept.

I'm always down for a Michelle Yeoh ass whooping. That's my girl right there. It could've been filmed in a more satisfying way, but at least it was better than last time. Why didn't Georgiou destroy the transmitter as soon as she figured out Leland wasn't Leland anymore? After she finds out, she actually waits to turn it off, until it squirts out a few more percentage points of data, like Lexington Steele trying to get the last drop out on Jenna Jameson. I was like hurry up and turn that $#!% off already!

I get the same Borg vibe others have been getting. It was much stronger this episode with nanites or nanoprobes flowing through Leland's veins. It occurred to me that rather than being a progenitor of the Borg it could've been an adaptation gleaned from seeing something in the Sphere data when it was possessing Ariam. In other words, the Borg could be out there right now sitting in the Delta quadrant. The Sphere eye-spied their asses. And Ariam saw something about them while decoding the data. Using this information and the information about Ariam's modifications it learned to manipulate humans, as it's doing to Leland. At least, that's the only way I can see the Borg fitting into this part of the timeline and not having an absolute cluster fuck on continuity.
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Quincy
Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 10:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Lasting Impressions

I first heard this song years ago as a child, watching the The Last Unicorn. It was a animated movie, partially a musical. There were several songs of note in it, but this one really stuck with me. It was sung by the two lead characters. Not sure if that was the original version or not:

"That's All I've Got To Say"
(from "Das Letzte Einhorn (The Last Unicorn)" soundtrack)

[Lir:] I've had time to write a book
About the way you act and look
But I haven't got a paragraph
Words are always getting in my way
Anyway, I love you
That's all I have to tell you
That's all I've got to say

And now, I'd like to make a speech
About the love that touches each
But stumbling, I would make you laugh
I feel as though my tongue were made of clay
Anyway, I love you
That's all I have to tell you

I'm not a man of poetry
Music isn't one with me
It runs from me
It runs from me
[Duet]
[Lir:] And I tried to write a symphony
[Amalthea:] Once when I was searching
[Lir:] But I lost the melody
[Amalthea:] Somewhere out of reach
[Lir:] Alas I only finished half
[Amalthea:] Far away
[Lir:] And finish I suppose I never may
[Amalthea:] In a place I could not find
[Lir:] Anyway, I love you
[Amalthea:] Or heart obey
[Lir:] That's all I have to tell you
[Amalthea:] Now that I'm a woman
[Lir:] That's all I've got to say
[Amalthea:] Now I know the way
[Lir:] That's all I've got to say
[Amalthea:] Now I know the way
[Together:] That's all I've got to say
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Quincy
Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 9:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Lasting Impressions

I really enjoyed this episode. While it seems they've been heavy on the relationship episodes this season, this is one of the better ones.

I was fully expecting him to have Greg take a job across the country and date somebody else. No need to delete him altogether.

In B4 complaints about the Bortus and hubby antics casting aspersions on the gay community. I'm sorry, but that $#!% was hilarious.
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Quincy
Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 12:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

The fight between Burnham and Georgiou annoyed me. Not because it wasn't choreographed well, but because I don't know how the hell it was choreographed, due to shaky cam man rearing his hideous mug. While that's not the worst shaky cam and fight editing I've seen (that honor goes to Night Hunter's shaky cam and Mile 22's horrific fight choreography editing), it was pretty bad. When you're watching a good cat fight and it feels like you're missing half the meows, that's some bad camera work at the worst possible time. Somebody needs to be made to SUFFER for making me miss out on a Michelle Yeoh ass whooping!

The frenetic pace of the time distortion plot was aggravating. I knew there was going to be a problem with pacing, when I looked and saw the episode was only going to be 40 minutes. Jesus, slow dafuq down! Somebody call the highway patrol. The pacing reminds me of one of the Shonda Rhimes shows, like How to Get Away with Murder, where everything's a whirlwind. A lot of modern shows seem to have this problem. Makes me wonder if this is due to copycats, a lot of the same people working across productions, or an artifact of the current generation.

As far as Ariam needing better antiviral software, lets just say she's got quite a few centuries worth of virus definitions to download and... it's going to take awhile. Amazing how no one suspected that she might be vulnerable, considering how quickly and easily the hijacked probe penetrated the shuttle's and then Discovery's computers. Not to mention, what happened recently with the sphere. The security chick with the Bluetooth headset screwed into both sides of her face should automatically suspect she's been compromised. I sure as hell would. I'd have the entire compliment of ship's personnel perform a level googolplex diagnostic on every computerized system in the ship, including all cybernetic people. What the probe was searching for is up for speculation, but seeing as they just got a 100k years worth of intel downloaded from the sphere... To paraphrase John Wick, yeah, I'm kind of thinking it's going to find it.
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Quincy
Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 9:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

As far as people having a problem with mustache twirling Georgiou, can someone refresh my memory as to which evil mirror character, besides Spock, wasn't a mustache twirling caricature. I can't remember one, but I've only seen about half the mirror episodes anyway. Otherwise, that seems to be par for the course for mirror characters.
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Quincy
Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 8:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

I hated the fact that Culber was brought back. Not only is it the wrong move story-wise, it didn't make any sense how they did it. How did he transport Culber into the network? I could understand if they'd had his body originally being buried in the network somehow, but the way they did it just made no sense. Also, the crises didn't make any sense at all considering the reveal. How the hell is shadow bark encrusted Culber killing off her people? If he's covered in toxic tree goo (which to me seemed to be native to the network), which was poisonous to spore creatures trying to eat it, JUST STAHP TRYING TO EAT HIS ASS! Problem solved. They have free will don't they? They quit trying to eat Tilly when told to. Go on a damn dead doctor deficient diet and STFU. How hard is that?

The May alien rebuilds his body from scratch with that same diseased booger interface with which she pilfered, plundered, and pillaged Tilly's village. I guess it's half replicator-half transporter. It breaks the body down atom by atom into a matter stream and transports you into and out of the spore network then reconstitutes your form. In this case, I guess she had Culber's pattern and she rebuilt his body from scratch with the replicator function.

It's definitely bad for the show. Culber's death served the show well. It increased the tension as it let the viewer know a main cast member can still die. Now not so much. It humanized Stamets for me at least. Up till then he was just the show's resident asshole. I thought for sure they were going to leave it at his being unable to cross over at the point when they were trying to get back home. That would've been a powerful moment and would've saved the episode for me. "You have to let me go." That could've led to some real character development for Stamets, but no such luck.

Only thing I like about this episode is that the dirty booger alien lost her Tilly interface, rebuilding Culber's ass from scratch. Maybe, just maybe, we won't see her behind for quite some time. I've got my fingers crossed. There's been entirely too much Tilly these last too episodes; I don't know how much more of her I can stand.

Another thing that's annoying me, it seems this season is destined to get overly maudlin from now on. All that panic with Burnham running to the spore room at the beginning was way over the top. (She was trained as a Vulcan. It's an artistic mistake to have her gushing all over the place, regardless of whether or not people want her "emoting.") And at the end, all that garbage about Tilly's sudden onset best friendship forever with May, whom she couldn't wait to get the hell away from ever since she found out she was ghost/dirty booger alien, was absolutely ridiculous. You staged a booty invasion, ass-jacked me to the upside down, and now no one knows me better! You're totally my BFF!!! Dafuq?!?
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Quincy
Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 1:25am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Deflectors

This episode, while enjoyable for what it was, didn't quite work for me in its execution. It was basically TOS's "Court Martial" + TNG's "The Outcast" = The Orville's "Deflectors." To be honest, Lokar just wasn't a very sympathetic character. He was a bit of a d!ck. I didn't like the guy. It's possible it was just the actor was miscast. This seemed like it would be a very good role for Christopher Judge of Stargate fame. He played almost this exact style of character for years and he nailed it. It's also possible it's just the way the character was written. He's unnecessarily yelling at the woman serving cupcakes. I don't know if that was meant to be humorous or not, but he just came off like a walking 6 foot dildo. He cares more about his experiment than the safety of the ship, when LaMarr wants to shut it down. He's showing up at his ex's cabin, when his ex clearly wanted nothing to do with him. What was the purpose of that? That's harassment. He's lying in wait in Talla's cabin without her permission. She's a total stranger. That was just creepy. The only reason it wasn't really creepy is because Talla could punt him and his testicles to the nearest star base without breaking a toenail. I felt they should've made him more sympathetic by making him more likable. If they had a sympathetic, likable character, who actually committed suicide, that to me would've been far more powerful. Even if the ending played out the same, this guy just didn't engender empathy from me. A more likable character would have.

I also wanted more of a mystery. They started the show off as if it were just another relationship episode, like we just had with Isaac. Then suddenly it turns into a murder investigation. Fine. Give me an actual investigation. Keep the audience in total darkness as to what's going on and slowly reveal it as Talla discovers it. Have Talla go over his personal logs so we can get into his head, leading up to his murder. Forensically search his quarters to find clues. Examine his background. Run simulations in the holodeck. I wanted something like what TNG's "Schisms" gave us with the holodeck scene where they were building the examination table. TNG was generally very good at this type of thing, like the poker scene in TNG's "Cause and Effect," where they discover they're in a time loop. I wanted them to show me Talla was a detective who could ferret out who dunnit. For me Alara would've worked much better in this episode. I have no affinity for Talla at all. Alara's love life troubles had already been explored and she is a very sympathetic and likable character. This would've worked perfectly for her. They could've had Lokar be a former unrequited love interest of Alara's, just two ships passing in the night without Alara knowing quite why. They could've set this up over several episodes with Alara, culminating in one final episode, like they did Finn and Isaac or Mercer and Teleya. This would have been more powerful, since Alara's feelings would've been deeper than having her just meet Lokar.

The problem is as I've said in the past The Orville isn't vehicle for that. They were never equipped to give me a TNG puzzle that could engender that feeling of mystery or suspense. They really don't have enough depth to pull off the story they were trying to tell. In any case, while the episode was watchable, I can't rate it higher than two and half stars max. It's not something I'm going to remember or look back fondly on. I might watch it again, but only if it's the only sci fi on television at the time.


@Charles J

There wasn't any clunky metaphors, despite Jack's claim. It's a sci fi show. That means sci fi is the vehicle that gets the ride along audience to the destination. The sci fi chosen for this particular episode was an exploration of a monosexual, repressed, alien culture. The whole purpose of this episode is NOT merely commentary on "bigotry, sexuality and gender." IMO the purpose of this episode is to reverse the situation so that the predominantly heterosexual audience can better empathize with victims of sexual bigotry. It's White Man's Burden or the defense's closing arguments in "A Time to Kill" for straight people. It's an exercise in what if THIS horrible thing happened to YOU or someone YOU care about. It's a worthwhile exercise.

They chose to tell the story through Talla's eyes for an obvious reason. She's the outsider looking in the window and wondering what the hell is going on in the living room. She's flabbergasted as to how something so natural as two heterosexual people getting together could blow up into such a tragedy. This is ostensibly the same position the majority of the viewers are in. These are the people authors want to clue in about what's going on. It's the same thing that TNG did with the J'naii in "The Outcast." That is also seen through mostly Riker's eyes. It's a viable method. If the target audience, straight people, presumably have much the same point of view as Talla, then you can use Talla's pov to lead that audience to a more clued in vantage point by the end of the episode. Or at least, that's the plan. The only other person who could possibly do this is Lokar, but he's not starting from the same vantage point as the audience. He's a total stranger already mired in the muck of his totally alien civilization, so that wouldn't work. Better to have a regular cast member, who was once peeping in the window, be sitting in the living room. She's still an outsider, but now much closer to the action.

As far as Talla lecturing Klyden, she was minding her own business, feeling crappy about the heavy guilt trip Lokar laid on her. This asshole, Klyden, intrudes on her personal reflection to offer his unsolicited gratitude. She tells him to stay the ?#&% away from her. She has every right to do that. He's an asshole. She clearly wants nothing to do with him. He should've recognized that and just walked away. That would be the end of it. Instead, this moron just has to know why. She simply tells him why he's an asshole that she wants nothing to do with. It is also her right to do just that. Since it seems the objective is to bring the viewer from the common point of view to a more empathetic vantage point, this makes perfect sense to me. Somebody has to explain to Klyden why he's an asshole. That someone has to actually have an effect on Klyden's mindset, so that he's left standing there looking and feeling like the asshole that he is. The person has to be heterosexual, because most of the intended audience is heterosexual, and the objective is to draw them down a path from the common position to a more empathetic position. There are only two heterosexual people in the entire episode who can possibly do that: Talla and Lokar. Clearly, Klyden is not going to give a damn about what Lokar says for obvious reasons. It can only be Talla. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the story in this particular aspect.
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Quincy
Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 9:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: An Obol for Charon

@Jason R.

I didn't say you were talking about Riker. I'm explaining that, since Riker and anyone, but the target, were safe, he had any number of choices, which he intentionally abdicated BEFORE beaming down.

There is simply no excuse for not taking a full security detail down there. There's no excuse for not taking Data, who has superhuman speed down there. There's no excuse for not simply beaming her up instead of beaming down in the first place. There's no excuse for standing there looking retarded, instead of repeatedly stunning her to the ground, while advancing to a more secure location. There's no way to excuse what must have been Riker's decision BEFORE he beamed down. It's ridiculous to try.

I watched the episode a few hours ago. The guy was a murdering piece of crap, engaging in deadly raids that were ongoing, which is why the federation wanted to put a stop to it. What Riker did is akin to a prison guard killing another much less despicable inmate that he was romantically involved with, in order to protect Jeffrey Dahmer from being killed, when he had every opportunity to make another decision. You can't be as holier than thou as Star Trek sometimes attempts to make these characters out to be, while simultaneously making decisions like these. Your position is simply not credible. I'm glad you convinced yourself, cause you didn't convince anybody else.

@Robert
Thanks.
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Quincy
Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 3:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: An Obol for Charon

@Jason R. "It is a little muddier than you imply. Just her touch was deadly, so arguably, Riker could not risk her shrugging off the stun (which she already showed superhuman resistence to) long enough to lay a fingernail on this guy."

Actually, it's not. Dr. Crusher states out loud that it was specifically engineered to kill a certain family and that it's perfectly safe if you don't have that DNA pattern. Therefore, any one of the alternatives I suggested would've worked. She was no danger to Riker, he could've ran over there while she sank to her knee. No matter what anyone says. She's not about to shout, "this isn't even my final form!" and suddenly turn from a super assassin into a super duper assassin. In order for what we see on the screen to occur, Riker had to decide 1) he and he alone was going down to handle the situation and 2) he was going to kill her if she did not cease and desist her assassination attempt. That's assholery 101, considering she was only going after people who wiped out her family. And not only that, people who were still raiding and killing people to this day.

@OmicronThetaDelta
That wasn't aimed at you. Your objections have been measured and reasonable. Others on here and elsewhere are acting like Burnham is the scum of the earth. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
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Quincy
Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 1:26am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: An Obol for Charon

I just find it interesting that people indict Burnham for killing T'Kuvma, but I didn't see anyone here mention what Riker did in "The Vengeance Factor." People actually defend his actions, saying he had no choice. These arguments fall flat on their face when we can watch the exact sequence of events and SEE that he had a choice.

He beams down and stuns one of the target's bodyguards. He's not much farther from the target than the assassin. Instead of advancing immediately, he simply stands there and points his phaser at her. Clearly, when he stuns her, she doubles over in severe pain and is knocked backwards a step. He stuns her again and she's not only knocked backwards a step, but she sinks to her knees, leaving him PLENTY of time to run over there and grab her or the target or at least position himself between them.

Riker just stands there. Had he kept stunning her repeatedly, while advancing, she would've been incapacitated long enough to reach her and physically stop her. He doesn't even make the attempt. Telling her target, "stay perfectly still," instead of "get the hell out of the way!" was incredibly stupid.

This is NOT debatable. The authors clearly mean for us to conclude Riker had no choice. However, that's NOT what's on the screen. What's shown is so demonstrably retarded it's ridiculous. Riker had numerous choices. 1) Beam down with a whole security detail. If one phaser hurt her enough to buckle her to her knees, 6 phasers on stun would've taken her down. 2) Fire on stun repeatedly and rapidly. 3) Bring Data, who can move at superhuman speed. 4) Beam down between the assassin and the target. 5) Advance immediately instead of standing there looking retarded. 6) Beam her ass up, instead of beaming down in the first place.

These are just some of the choices he had. I can only conclude he'd already decided to kill her, despite these obvious, numerous alternatives, if she refused to surrender, just like most police officers would today. Riker was not emotionally compromised, as Burnham was, by both her mentor and captain's death AND her prior history with the Klingons. There is simply no excuse for the ending of this episode, yet people defend it by and large. Go and watch it on daily motion and tell me that's not one of the most retarded endings of any TNG episode. Riker doesn't take any heat for this.

I understand that Burnham's actions had more ramifications, due to failing her mission to stop the war that the KLINGONS started. However, her actions are clearly emotionally compromised. And while she shouldn't get a pass I don't think she should be utterly vilified the way people are doing.
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Quincy
Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 5:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: An Obol for Charon

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

The Klingons started the conflict when they attempted to kill her and she killed one of them in self-defense. She was attempting to stop the war with a Vulcan Hello. Would it have worked? Who knows? They quickly became outnumbered, so it's up in the air. It's a good bet standard Starfleet protocols wouldn't have fared any better. The Klingons were already gearing up for war.
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Quincy
Sat, Feb 9, 2019, 6:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: An Obol for Charon

@Stargazer "You should think about the adjectives you use to describe things you dislike. There are thousands of words you can use that do not insult millions of people."

It took a moment for me to know wth you were talking about.

1) Be more specific.
2) I don't insult millions of people. Never in my life have I called a disabled person, moving at the speed god made them to move at, retarded. I reserve that word for people who somehow can't get up to the speed they were born for. If that's a problem for some folks, then that's their problem, not mine.
3) Manufactured outrage doesn't move me. Neither does politically "correct" propaganda.

@Stargazer "Look at the Rotten Tomatos score. Read the critics reviews. Look at the grades the AV Club, for example, gives. DSC at this point is the most critically succesful Star Trek show in history. More than TOS was. More than TNG was. And certainly far more than DS9 and VOY were. No other Trek series has been welcomed this positively by people who review television for a living and certainly know their stuff. Which makes the violent dislike from so-called Trek fans even more unbelievable."

No one should be looking at Rotten Tomatoes. That garbage is manipulated, bought and paid for propaganda. Nothing more unbelievable than that nonsense. People who need to be told first what to like, in order to give themselves permission to like it, then like Saru, they need to hurry up and have their ganglia fall off.
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Quincy
Sat, Feb 9, 2019, 4:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: An Obol for Charon

Wow. This was terrible. The main idea was solid, but the execution after the sphere infects their universal translator was god awful. Discovery has always had problems with disjointed execution, but it got dialed up to 11 this episode.

And that whole plot with Tilly. God damn, please kill her ass off. I can't stand her, neither the actress, nor the character itself. If they wanted a quirky and discombobulated character they should've gotten someone like Carrie Preston from the Good Wife. I know she's older than Tilly's supposed to be, but the character could've been rewritten.

And enough with the environmentalism in space. That crap is putrid. The universe can't be that fragile or none of us would be here with neutron stars, supernova, black holes, quasars, dark energy, colliding galaxies, etc releasing metric f#&% tons of energy mankind could never hope to match. I. Simply. Do not. Believe. That. Bull$#!%. It was the same with the TNG anti-warp episode. Jesus Christ on a crucifix. It's just not credible.

That whole Tilly story arc with the dirty booger alien is rancid. And not just because it focuses so much screen time on Tilly. This episode could've been so good if they'd just focused on the alien sphere. It didn't need anything else. Certainly, not some stupid story line about booger extraterrestrials kidnapping annoying crew members. They keep trying to overload every single episode with, not just single stand alone plots, but multiple story arcs. With the sphere, Spock, and Saru, how the hell is that not enough? Why in god's name would you stuff yet another story ARC into this episode?

That whole scene with Burnham and Saru just went on and on so long that it became too maudlin; I wanted to blow my cookies all over my screen. I'm really glad they didn't kill off Saru, but there was no reason to make that scene that sappy if they weren't going to go through with it. It was over the top. Also, I'm not sure if I like the new development with Saru or not. It could go either way. It has plenty of potential, but I'm not confident that Discovery's writers and show runners can pull it off.

All these bridge crew characters are just place holders. They gave them more lines this episode than usual, but they've yet to give them all personalities. At this point, I'm not sure how they'd go about it. It's annoying when I hear them speak, because I know they're just cardboard cut outs that aren't likely to ever get developed. I don't even know or care to know any of their names. I thought the engineer from the asteroid was going to be good addition, but to bring her on just to out snark Stamets, as someone above pointed out, is retarded. One asshole character is enough. Stamets took a lot of last season to grow on me to where he completely fits on the show for me. Who needs two assholes in your show? That's like bringing in another Dr. McCoy to insult Spock or, another Pulaski to talk crap about Data.

I know all Treks start off slow and cumbersome, but there should be some signs of Discovery's cast hitting it's stride. Everybody looked like amateurs this episode. I'm a fan of Discovery, but this was a set back for me.
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Quincy
Wed, Feb 6, 2019, 10:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: A Happy Refrain

@Lynos

1) But it's ALWAYS a practical element with women in regards to their children. Claire made the same practical considerations, when she saw how her kids responded to Isaac. ONLY THEN does she go on to have other more tender emotions about it, which are a luxury Sarah Connor doesn't have, due to the extreme nature of her situation. If you read my posts, I'm talking about Isaac fulfilling the role of being a father figure for Claire's children FIRST. That is necessarily a practical consideration. Then comes the other stuff. Clearly, Claire is not in an extreme situation. She's free to indulge all of her emotions. And in fact, a woman's emotions are indeed practical in an evolutionary context. Their purpose is to bind women to suitable mates. There's literally NOTHING flowery about women's emotions when you analyze their true purpose.

2) Sarah Connor is a special case. She's not feeling tender emotions for anybody, not since Kyle Reece died. Every choice she made afterwards was not only for John, but the future of the human race. She buried her emotions in T2 because she thought it made her stronger. It didn't; it made her unstable. If Sarah Connor were not in an extreme situation (running for her life, future of the human race hanging in the balance, hunted by nigh unstoppable machines, mourning the love of her life, fearing the future of her son, etc), you can bet your sweet ass that she'd be indulging her emotions. Maybe not with Ahhhnold, but certainly with somebody. And since people anthropomorphize everything, Cyber Arnold would have as good a chance as the next man in a normal situation, like when she was waitress Sarah, instead of warrior Sarah.

3) Yes, I do count the protective emotions she feels towards John. They're the same emotions 99.99% of all women feel, especially in extreme situations, so there's no reason to discount them. Also, it's erroneous that she's operating on pure logic. Through that whole movie she's living on the edge of an emotional breakdown. We see desperation right when she's introduced in the mental ward and she's pleading for release. We see panic when she first catches sight of the T-800. We see overwhelming fear when she's chastising John, whom she hasn't seen in years, about risking everything coming to save her. When she's watching her son with the machine, there's definite emotion there. It's subdued. It's buried. But it's definitely there.

Finally, she knows her son is secure. Finally she knows he has the perfect protection, better than she herself could provide. Her ever present fear is eased. She's relieved. She can finally leave him in someone else's care and focus on the desperation that's been driving her for more than a decade. We then see her losing her shit when she goes to assassinate Dyson. She has a total emotional breakdown. There's no way in hell she was operating on pure logic AT ANY POINT in that movie. Saying she's operating on pure logic at any time, is like saying Sandra Bullock's character in Bird Box ****SPOILER*** is operating on a pure logic when she refuses to even name her children and treats them more like military recruits than kids. Such behavior is pragmatic, certainly given the circumstances, but there's an omnipresent undercurrent of fear guiding everything she does.

4) In order to claim their family at the end of T2 is based solely on necessity, you'd have to totally ignore how John feels at the end of that movie. He's completely anthropomorphized the T-800. As far as John is concerned, he's the father he never had. If it was possible for John to do so, due to his being a child with inescapable emotional needs, then it would be possible for Sarah to do so, if only she didn't have all that baggage concerning lost loves and murderous machines informing her every action. Guess what? Claire doesn't have any of that.

5) And no we don't need to ground anything. They've been setting up this episode since the shuttle crash last season. That's enough grounding. You're watching the wrong show if you want some deep romantic character development beyond what they've shown. At its heart, The Orville is a comedy. This episode was a rom com whether anyone wants it to be or not. They were never going to give you what you're asking for. People keep reacting to the Orville like it's Trek. It's not Trek. It's not ever going to be as deep as Trek at it's best. (Not that Trek was ever any good at romance anyway.) It's become fashionable for haters of Discovery to claim The Orville is the only real Trek on television right now, but those people don't know what they're talking about. If people stop expecting sudden onset Trek and just watch The Orville for what it actually is, they'll enjoy it a lot more.

I really can't understand why people insist on something The Orville isn't even equipped for. If you want a deep exploration of human - A.I. interaction there are much better shows for this: such as Travelers, Humans, Westworld, Person of Interest, and Battlestar Galactica, just to name a few.

Apologies for the Great Wall of Text.
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Quincy
Tue, Feb 5, 2019, 7:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: A Happy Refrain

@Jammer

I think we have a clear difference of expectations. I'm not looking for any deep exploration of A.I. from the Orville. It's the wrong show for that. I got that exploration from TNG, Voyager, and recently Travelers. There are so many good shows in that regard, I certainly wouldn't be looking to the Orville for such an exploration.

Recalling his other work, I wouldn't expect Seth to be capable of such an exploration anyway, no matter how much of a Trek fan he is. We can tell he's not thinking too deeply on the subject, when Seth literally pirates TNG's concept of friendship from Data's perspective, when he has Mercer say, "Your various programs are used to her and, it turns out, she's not so easy to just... delete" to explain Isaac's anomalous behavior.

I was simply taking what the Orville is giving us at face value. Isaac is depicted as sapient, at least somewhat creative, capable and competent at many things, but inept at human relations. They show Isaac as unintentionally fulfilling the role of surrogate dad and companion. I'm actually looking at things entirely from Claire's perspective, not Isaac's.

Recall Terminator 2 and the scene where Sarah Connor is reflecting on The T-800's relationship with her son. She says, "Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The Terminator would never stop, it would never leave him. And it would never hurt him, never shout at him or get drunk and hit him or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there and it would die to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice."

This is what I'm talking about in regards to Isaac being a father figure for Claire's children. The T-800 isn't even sapient, like Isaac is, at this point in the movie. He's just a very sophisticated robot, yet Sarah Connor vocalizes almost exactly what I think Claire's conclusion would be with regards to Isaac and her children. And although Sarah wouldn't be the type of woman to jump Isaac's undercarriage, due to her history, it's really not that far of a distance from this mindset to Claire's under more pleasant circumstances.
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Quincy
Tue, Feb 5, 2019, 11:53am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: A Happy Refrain

@wolfstar
"But her desire to pursue a relationship with someone who she knows will never be attracted to her (as he's both asexual and aromantic) is a contrivance, and should have been scrutinized more. "

Really?!? Some women in real life are known to sometimes pursue relationships with gay men. How is it contrived at all that a lonely woman might pursue a relationship with a full fledged battery operated boyfriend, who actually walks, talks, and takes care of your kids?

I think both you and Jammer are giving the human race too much credit. Lonely people will form attachments to almost anything. Give them something that walks and talks and it's a whole new ball game.

We know for a fact that lonely men will sometimes form very deep attachments to sex dolls, which cost sometimes tens of thousands of dollars. I think you're having trouble with the notion that women, given a close enough facsimile, would exhibit similar behaviors.

Just look at the relationship objectively. Isaac has been fulfilling the role of surrogate father and companion since that shuttle crash. In that very first episode Claire is shown struggling to control and relate to her kids. Isaac steps in and handles it smoothly and swiftly. From that moment on her kids take to Isaac like the father they never had. Claire cannot possibly fail to witness that as a mother who loves her children. It would be impossible for any woman to not feel endearment towards a walking talking being who was able to provide her children with what she never could.

It isn't far fetched at all that she could've in her own mind built upon that endearment and become romantically attracted to Isaac. Lonely people do it all the time. They fall in love with that Nigerian Prince who shows up nowhere but emails and always needs money. They fall in love with that voice on the phone that they've never met, last name Fish, first name Cat. And guess what, these people I just described are getting a helluva lot less from the people they're romantically infatuated with than Claire was getting from Isaac.

And don't pretend that since Claire seems like she's got it all together she certainly wouldn't be engaged in activities like that or be subject to emotions in that manner. That's silly. In real life, we've had multiple presidents, CEOs, senators, etc caught with their pants down, engaging with much more ridiculous activities than any shown on this show. Congressman sending dick pics. Presidents who "grab 'em by the p*$$y." We had two Michigan State Representatives Todd Courser and Cindy Gamrat, having an affair with each other that ultimately lead to their ejection from the Statehouse. So Claire being otherwise well put together is COMPLETELY irrelevant. The woman was lonely. She's a single mother. She was at her wits end with her two fatherless sons. Then Isaac comes along and gives her children what she never could. Would every woman respond romantically to that? Of course not. Would some women respond romantically to that? You bet your sweet ass. And many of those will be lonely ass women, otherwise reasonable, maybe even the wisest people you know, who nevertheless would jump right on Isaac's holographic Johnson.
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