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Quincy
Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 1:31am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Terra Firma, Part 1

@Dave in MN

Let's! Get! Brodantic!

Wait... wut... that didn't sound right.

Whatever metaphorical message Narnia was supposed to represent, how was it presented in the story?

I already stated why I was disqualifying this particular instance from consideration. However, to answer your charge, no one claimed it had as much penetration as Star Trek, but obscure?!? To older people maybe, but once something's made it to Minecraft and gets over 6 million views? Looking at all the English comments, I'm pretty sure it's no longer obscure even in America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Gk2ygsCSc
But as I said, I've no evidence King would've seen it.

However, I do have evidence that King wrote about the original Twilight Zone tv show:
http://talkstephenking.blogspot.com/2009/11/stephen-king-and-twilight-zone.html
Though it's unclear to me from different excerpts of the Glass Teat whether that influence was positive or negative, it's there. He saw it. He was influenced by it. He pilfered it.

In any case, I don't need to name any work of narrative fiction that has penetrated the mass consciousness (although without doubt The Twilight Zone and it's intro has done just that). I only need to name a work of narrative fiction that uses suspiciously close imagery, which has penetrated the consciousness of Stephen King, because my whole point was he pilfered it before DSC did.

Rod Serling is literally narrating that our freely floating lonely door, which appears on screen for 12 seconds, not 2, by the way, leads to another dimension, "The Twilight Zone" Not to mention, your "narrative fiction" line drawing is arbitrary and baseless. King wouldn't have to have stolen the idea from narrative fiction. He could've stolen the idea from a box of cereal. It literally makes no difference WHAT he stole it from, if he stole it. And he saw it on the television before he wrote it in his book. The Twilight Zone is close enough to his genre to raise the same eyebrow at him that you're raising at DSC.

The door appears to me to be floating in outer space. I'm pretty sure outer space is a natural setting.
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Quincy
Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 6:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Terra Firma, Part 1

@Yanks

Very welcome, Yanks. When I saw that guy, I was like, I've seen him before! I thought of Anubis, but was like no, that's not it. Then I recalled it was something I read, not watched. Thank the trek gods for Memory Alpha. My memory ain't what it used to be.
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Quincy
Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 6:27pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Terra Firma, Part 1

@Dave in MN
Pedantic it is, because that's what NuTrek detractors love the most!

@Dave in MN
"The VERY Specific imagery of a single conventional door (unconnected to any larger structure) functioning as a dimensional portal is pretty much owned by King's opus."


I'm pretty sure it's not. Pretty sure I've seen surrealism art from a long time ago that features lonely doors, but I can't find it on the web and can only guess if King is familiar with surrealism. Pretty sure also I've seen it in comic books, but I don't know if King has read the same ones I have or any at all:
Eerie #5 -"A Matter of Routine!" 1966
https://tinyurl.com/yxlo2hqu

Doraemon has the Anywhere Door which you can put anywhere including a field of dandelions and go... anywhere, but though the series began in the 70s I can't verify when that particular plot device appeared and I don't know if King is familiar with manga, so I'll go with others.

The Last Battle has them go through a door which stands unattached to anything on the other side. Pretty sure King has heard of C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia series.

The Twilight Zone from the 60s says, "Am I a joke to you?!?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORbseYAkzRM

Pretty sure King saw this Twilight Zone intro before he wrote his "opus."

There's a difference between the most popular conceptualization of a trope and the original.
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Quincy
Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 4:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Terra Firma, Part 1

@Tommy D.
Glad someone else remembered that story.

@Dave in MN
That may be your favorite or perhaps the only instance of it that you recall, but "the lonely door" is a well known trope, not nearly exclusive to the Dark Tower (neither are riddle speaking guardians by the way). There was literally already nothing new about the lonesome dimensional doorway when Stephen King did it, so I'm not sure how DSC could be indicted for the very thing that Stephen King himself is guilty of ripping off.

George MacDonald's book Phantastes in 1858 featured a deserted, barren island with a lone, windowless cottage bearing four doors. Each door opens to a different world. Was Stephen King "original or clever" because he got rid of the cottage and kept the doors? Sorry to say, but the manga/anime, Doraemon, did that more than a decade before King. And C. S. Lewis's "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Last Battle" did it in 1956.
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Quincy
Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 2:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Terra Firma, Part 1

This episode was interesting, but I wasn't really into it. I couldn't give it more than 2.5 stars. It was certainly better than last weeks episode, however, and Georgiou is definitely much more tolerable in this episode. Perhaps there'll be significantly better character development for her in the future. One can only hope.

Some of the things that interested me, I only discovered later on after doing some research. There are all kinds of Easter eggs on the paper that Carl is reading front and back, referencing different episodes, like TNG: "Relics," TNG: "The Last Outpost," TNG: “Parallels,” TOS: "The Gamemasters of Triskelion," and of course the name of the paper Carl is reading, as well as, one of the headlines from TOS: "The City on the Edge of Forever." There are others, but I'm not sure which episodes they harken back to.

People mostly noticed the last one. However, there are no time displacement waves coming from the artifact, like there was in "City on the Edge of Forever." The badge tricorder detects nothing at all, let alone time disruptions. There are no ruins of a vast city either, this is probably not the Guardian of Forever. The being behaves like a Q or something similar. Q also read a newsmagazine, seen in VOY: “Death Wish,” with headlines in the Q continuum. Recall from VOY that Q weapons trigger spontaneous supernova as a side effect. There is a headline on the front saying, "Supernova Threatens Tkon Empire."

There are at least two different Star Trek apocrypha that have associated Q with the Guardian of Forever. In one of the apocrypha, Q encounters a being called 0 shown to him by the Guardian of Forever. 0 is apparently in another dimension, inhabiting a cold, snowy, barren world, similar to Rura Penthe, when he's invited to the Star Trek Milky Way. He seems harmless, well dressed, and mischievous, but he is actually malevolent. He has Q like abilities, but his power has been crippled (he can no longer travel at warp speed- sound familiar?). After causing a civil war that fails to destroy the TKon Empire, he ends up prematurely triggering the supernova that the TKon Empire was trying to escape from. He was subsequently banished from the galaxy and the galactic barrier was erected by the Q to keep him out.

This may be unrelated, but others have pointed out that there are similarities between Carl and Anubis from Stargate: SG1. At first, he's a seemingly harmless, jolly, obese ascended being, who is actually a very malevolent entity. He's also constantly reading a paper, The Ascended Times, with current event headlines of the Stargate universe. Paul Guilfoyle as Carl is a different actor than the guy that played Anubis, though. Perhaps it's nothing, but I don't think so.

If what I suspect is true, this episode has more to do with the Burn than I originally thought. If DSC is drawing from this apocrypha then such an entity may indeed be both capable and evil enough to cause such an event. Although, without the Q, I don't see how they would stop him.

As far as Georgiou's predicament, it's possible the solution that she is there for will result in her sparing Michael, thus eventually (this is going to really piss off Burnham haters) saving the Terran Empire and bringing it back into alignment with the current timeline. This will save her life. Georgiou might then either remain in the current timeline or end up back in the past of this timeline.

In any case, I hope the final three episodes, after Terra Firma part 2 brings it on home. Lets hope for a strong finish. The seeds of it are there. They just have to pull it together.
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Quincy
Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 4:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

@MidshipmanNorris
"You can breathe sometime... Modern (CBS) Trek is stressing the Structural Integrity Fields of Star Trek as a whole by pacing itself like a bolt of lighting seeking the ground. This is supposed to be a thinking person's entertainment, guys."



You do understand that DSC has half the episodes in a season that TNG did? You think that at least partially might have something to with it?
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Quincy
Fri, Dec 4, 2020, 8:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Exactly. Just contrast this episode with that conversation she had with Kovich. It's night and day.

I thought so too. However, after that incident in the scanner where she's almost coming apart, it seems like something more fundamental is going on. Why would she be coming apart at an atomic level like that?

We've been given two clues: the existence of a Terran misbehavior gene and the growing distance to the Mirror universe. One of these I feel is a red herring, but I'm not sure which one. If Kovich did something to her, did he dope her body with programmable matter, nanites, or something else at an atomic scale?

Another thing occurred to me. Imagine if something wiped out the timeline of the Mirror universe that she's from (that could be what's responsible for the increasing divergence between the two universes). Does she remain unscathed by virtue of having escaped to a different universe, or, is she still dependent on its existence? Meaning, if the timeline that spawned her no longer exists, she soon won't either?
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Quincy
Thu, Dec 3, 2020, 8:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: The Sanctuary

Damn. WTH were they smoking with this episode? It was all over the place. There were two main plots and two more subplots. I bought almost nothing in this episode. Saru disobeying direct orders. The suggestion that Osyraa can't blame the Federation if a ship that just left their
shuttle bay attacks her was ridiculous. Though the second half was slightly better then the first, they could've kept it all. It really went off the rails.

Just remembered Osyraa was one of those green aliens from TOS, the Orions. She was annoying at first, but became more tolerable as the episode wore on. The actress did a decent job with what she was given. I know they're popular in cosplay, but why make them the big bad?

Jesus Georgiou. These crap lines they keep giving her. All the prior toning down went out the window this episode. Kill her off already. Her behavior makes no sense.

Worst episode of the season by far.
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Quincy
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

Almost forgot, happy Thanksgiving people.
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Quincy
Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 6:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Unification III

I enjoyed this episode. I didn't think I was going to like it in the beginning, but all the cylinders slowly rolled into place as the episode went on. The Burn information explained why Vance has been looking cagey whenever Burnham brought up the Burn. Did Starfleet cause the Burn? Find out as we cross the midpoint of the season.

I groaned and laughed when I saw her mother standing there. The episode made perfect sense to have Burnham front and center for obvious reasons, much to the chagrin of disgruntled onlookers. But inserting her mother here? Not the way I would've introduced her into the story. I loved the Qowat Milat callback to Picard, however, I didn't see her mother fitting in there.

But it turned out to be the best part of the episode. Her mother savaged Burnham. Her words cut her to her quick. That priceless look on Burnham's face was like, "wtf are you doing, mama?!?" I could see the white meat after the slashes and Burnham's blood dripping from her mother's sharp tongue. And I'm not a Burnham hater by any means. That's my girl. But damn that was vicious. All that was missing was the Mortal Kombat voice saying, "BRUTALITY! Finish her!"

It didn't bother me that Tilly got the first officer position. I figured she would get it despite being an Ensign, which she'll probably be till the day she dies or at least until she's promoted off screen post series continuity. She is OFFICIALLY the Ensign Kim of Discovery now. I really dislike the character, but with all other DSC excesses she's also been reigned in somewhat. Thus her character has become a tad bit tolerable. Nhan would've made a better first officer. No one else in the cast fits that position or is well known enough to insert. I don't want them to introduce another character. And I really don't want them to insert that Lieutenant Willa that accompanied them in Die Trying. Perhaps, Nhan will complete her mission and rejoin the crew as the permanent first officer before the end of the season or maybe next season.

The new showrunner has done a good job of reigning in DSC's excess, but they still need to reign in the Burnham wank I have to admit. It's going way beyond the prior standard Kirk wank now. I lol'd with "headline, Michael Burnham is coming" line. (I can see the Burnham haters boiling in their own blood. That alone gives me true joy and made the comment worth the putridity.) However, the inner cringe was strong with this one with that callback to Burnham being the source of the man Spock became. If only I could summon Mjölnir to aid me in beating to death and dismemberment the person or persons responsible for inserting that nonsense into the end of last season and daring to remind us of it this season.

I shook my head at that comment about science being inseparable "from cultural and political context." Sure, the history of the absolutely crap stained relationship between science, politics, and culture is no secret. However, we'd better learn to separate it, at some point in our future, or else we're not going to be capable of solving the hard problems we need to survive this century. Because real answers to the necessary questions will always be at the beck and call of the current aholes in power, their cronies, and the useful masses. The universe doesn't care about your sociopolitical leanings and it absolutely will find brand new (and golden oldie) ways to delete you. Might be a pipedream, but no more so than any of the other hopeful outlooks Star Trek represents.

I don't know if it's true that there were a ton of reshoots, or not, but the theory does explain why Saru seems more passive about some of Burnham's improvisation in some scenes than his position as Captain warrants. And it would also explain the disjointed narrative of a couple of the other episodes.

Saru 'bout to get some Vulcanic cougar STRANGE! That's my boy right there. That's what I'm talking about. (Do Vulcan women go through Pon farr?)

On a side note, I've got my fingers crossed that we'll see the reintroduction of the phase cloak. If the Ni'Varans join the Federation there shouldn't be any impediment to it. And it should be perfected by now. And please let somebody raise the issue of dark matter replacement of dilithium and antimatter for warp drive. You can't replicate Discovery. It's too dangerous. Some idiot added that lore about the mycelial network being critical to the survival of the multiverse, so now we're stuck with it. Too many people get ahold of it and something's bound to go wrong. They should either solve the dilithium deficient warp drive problem with 1) a superconductor dilithium substitute, 2) wormhole technology, or 3) dark matter.

Solid 3 stars for me. I didn't like the last episode. I agree with Jammer's rating of it. However, we've had a couple of really solid episodes. Discovery's finding its path. If they finish the season strong, I can see the 4th season being the one that puts DSC on solid Star Trek footing to silence all the naysayers.
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Quincy
Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 1:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

@SlackerInc

Don't get me started on the ending of that episode. Each time he shot her, she was in debilitating pain. He literally could've just kept stunning her till she was on the floor and then ran over and restrained her. He could've sent Data down instead, who can move at superspeed. There'd be no chance of her getting to the guy and no reason to kill her. He could've just beamed her up into the brig or the target to a safe spot. Even if you wanted her dead, we've seen before that stunning people multiple times on a high stun setting can kill according to that episode where La Forge was being stunned by those scavengers in that episode, "Samaritan Snare." This ending was asinine.
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Quincy
Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 8:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

@SlackerInc
"So...they didn't want to kill the Andorian escapee, just wound him? BTW, I never saw a vaporization in TNG, just in TOS (but I have only seen maybe 10-20 TNG episodes)."



I don't know. It could've been either. If they kill everyone, they wouldn't have anyone to work their yard.

We don't even know what kind of weapons those are. They may not even be phasers. Depending on the type and setting, they may have multiple ways of killing people. I hate the design of the weapon as much as the next man. My point is simply that we've seen multiple people killed with those same weapons.

This TNG episode, atrocious as it was, probably illustrates the multiple levels that TNG introduced. (I'm sure TOS had more than two levels, but I doubt it was nearly as many as what we see on Riker's phaser.) Only the last setting vaporizes:

"The Vengeance Factor" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPFp5tAlIB8

Here's another less obvious example:

"Aquiel" - https://youtu.be/JHWKx1icjTA?t=368
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Quincy
Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 12:14pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Scavengers

@SlackerInc
Burnham and Booker vaporized numerous people in the first episode with those same weapons. Clearly, they have multiple settings, some which kill, just like in TNG.

@Neko
I thought of that too. However, I don't think they can replicate Stamets just yet. He's the navigator. Without a navigator, they could end up dead, like Stamets's colleague.
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Quincy
Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 11:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Die Trying

@SlackerInc
"Wowww. You are engaging in very selective cherrypicking here. I wonder if you really see it this way, or or just being lawyerly to try to prosecute your case, facts be damned. Overall, Dr. Finn has been portrayed as probably the smartest, wisest, and most well-rounded character on the show, and her family's dynamics have shown nuance in the writing and acting that's rare on a genre show--or a comedy for that matter."



Actually, no. I didn't cherrypick anything, but you certainly cherrypicked my post. My very first sentence says that The Orville clowns diverse characters. In other words, they're clowning EVERYBODY on the show in SOME form or fashion. No cherrypicking thus far. How are they clowning them? Clearly, with stereotypes and low brow humor, of the kind that Seth MacFarlane is famous for. No cherrypicking thus far. I then give one example of how they are clowning one of those characters. Giving an example of what you've BEEN talking about for clarification cannot be called cherrypicking if you're using the same dictionary most people use. I use Webster's, American Heritage, or Oxford English; how about you?

Meanwhile, you cherrypick my post as if that's the only thing I'd said. The fact of the matter is the strong, black, single mother with a mountain of man troubles is a stereotype. That's what it is. You can deny it all you want to, but there it is. Was it funny? Some of it, I'd have to say yeah, but that shouldn't interfere with one's ability to see what kind of humor it is you're laughing at. This isn't something I'm fabricating. This isn't something I dreamed up or manufactured. This is something Seth MacFarlane is KNOWN for. Any honest person should be able to admit that, whether they do so while laughing or not.

I didn't even intend to get involved in these stupid @$$ off topic debates. I just get sick to death of people holding up The Orville (a show I do actually like by the way) as some bastion of all that is wonderful. It's asinine. I can point to fact after fact of it being guilty of nearly every selective (cherrypicked), hypocritical indictment levied against "NuTrek." I will continue to do so every time I run across it.
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Quincy
Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 9:46am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Die Trying

Lmao! The Orville "clowns" diverse characters, which certainly sometimes can be funny. If that's your thing, cool. But don't attempt to put that up as some sort of example of a display of diversity. It's just an example of wallowing in stereotypes. This is perfectly fine for a comedy show, but not something to pat yourself on the back about. It's just low brow humor, the easiest thing in the world to poke fun at. The Orville clowned a black single mother by having pretty much her only action as a sexual liaison with a gigantic booger and then a full blown relationship with a battery operated boyfriend. If that's what you call diversity, I'll take single white male homogeneity any damn day of the week.
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Quincy
Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 1:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Die Trying

@Mal "Or how about Chakotay? He was a maquis for crying out loud, but I can’t ever imagine him acting this way either. As @Bucktown mentions above, say what you will about VOY - and you can say a lot - but Janeway ran a tight ship, and Chakotay was there running it with her every step of the way."

This is just hilarious. Chakotay was often the voice of reason on Voyager. But let's look at Janeway's reaction to Chakotay just doing his job. She relieved him of duty. She got "in her feelings" and accused him of disloyalty. She never listened to his very rational alternatives. She was magically always right even when we could clearly see on screen that she was full of humanoid shaped, sentient turds. She was a far shittier captain than you've even accused Burnham of being a first officer. (And this is coming from someone who grew to be a fan of Janeway's) And your response to this is "Janeway ran a tight ship." LMAO!

People who believe that the hate Discovery and "NuTrek" have received is something brand new or unique need to go back and take a look at ancient history. DS9 was the original coal in the stocking at Christmas. It got all those same asinine "this is not Trek" indictments. The actors and creators today still talk about how it affected them. Only in retrospect did it become beloved as much as it has. I'll just leave this here for all of you who've forgotten or never noticed in the first place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHixW9PLsAc&t
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Quincy
Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 8:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Die Trying

@Yanks
"Just had a thought.

Why is this episode named "Die Trying"?"


It seems to me the man on the seed ship was trying to revive his family at all costs, even though he was a dead man walking. In the end, he chose to die with his family after failing.
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Quincy
Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Die Trying

@Chrome
"What I don't really think worked was Burnham acting insubordinate in an episode that also has her being praised for bringing out the best in others. I mean, writers, pick a message. Was Burnham wrong to push Starfleet and Saru or was she right and everyone was better off for it? The episode is uneven in that regard and fall back into the unfortunate habit of making Burnham unbelievably important. I mean, it's fine that Burnham is talented but even Kirk had to be guided into the right answer by Bones and Spock *some* of the time."



Burnham wasn't insubordinate in this episode. When they were informed that the crew would be split up her reaction was the same as Saru and she properly restrained herself until she could bring up the issue privately with Saru. As Data discussed with Worf in the TNG episode, "Gambit, Part II" this was the proper duty of a first officer. In other words, that's exactly what she was supposed to do. She gave a risky alternative. She was warned by Saru about the lessons she should have learned; she backed down and was immediately contrite. The latitude that Saru afforded her is nothing more than is to be expected between a captain and the first officer, as described by Worf and Data.

When she brings up again the offer of assistance with the second in command of Starfleet, she is suitably respectful and diplomatic. And that's why the woman listens to her. The only time she comes close to stepping over the line is when the admiral warns her about her tone as she objects to his decision (one objection was not outside the bounds of her duty, though she toed the line with her tone). She immediately slammed her trap shut. Go back and watch the scene. That's exactly what happened. There is nothing else that she did that could be called anywhere near insubordinate.

You know, Kirk did what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it. Sure he listened to Spock and Bones, but who else? When I think about how Kirk disobeyed direct orders and committed outright insubordination, because somehow it was the right thing to do, and in the end got praised and rewarded for it or at worst a slap on the wrist, these ongoing indictments against Burnham wring so hollow.



@The Queen:
"Now for the major dislike, which isn't exactly major: Saru's speech comparing themselves to Giotto, bringing light to darkness. Talk about egotism! I think the writers were going for a TNG feeling here? But the same point could easily have been made without an esoteric reference which had to be explained to the audience, while pretending that of course the admiral had heard of Giotto. Also, why does every character who makes a historical reference have to call up Earth history? I'd think a historical figure from Kaminar would be far more relevant to Saru. To me, this is an example of writers trying to sound intellectual without having the ability to actually create something."



Saru wasn't talking about bringing light to the Federation. He's not saying they're huddled together, cowering in the dark, waiting for Discovery to come along with a flashlight. He was talking about bringing the perspective of a people from a time when the Federation was bursting forth into the galaxy in its heyday. This change in perspective was exactly what an organization that's "been in triage" (according to the Admiral) for a long time needs. A simple change in perspective can make all the difference, even when viewing the exact same scenery. Remember Spock talking to Kirk about Khan displaying a pattern of 2 dimensional thinking, while they're fighting a 3 dimensional space battle?

Also, since Saru is talking to a human, it's appropriate to use human history to reach the Admiral. Vice versa would only be appropriate if a human were trying to convince Saru. Not to mention, how are they going to connect with the audience with a fictional event that we've never heard of? It had to be something that MIGHT mean something to the people watching it, at the very least.
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Quincy
Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 1:33am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Die Trying

Oh, man, I loved this episode. This is the one I've been waiting for since the season began. The crew actually gelled together for the first time. When you reign in its excesses, Discovery shines. Whoever mentioned the other week that the new show runner might be good for Discovery, I'm starting to see your point. This is the most gorgeous Star Trek outside of a movie.

This was a classic standalone ensemble Star Trek episode. Everybody came together. Almost everybody that had some screen time had an important role. No major complaints from me, but I can't wait to read about people that recoiled at the nanosecond of "action" from the tragic dude's pathetic "haymaker" that Burnham dodged or who can't stand the fact that Burnham was even in the episode.

Jett Reno, whom I usually can't stand, was hilarious. She's still a butthole, but her buttholery tickled me here. The blend of humor, drama, sci fi, and feels was spot on this episode.

Even Georgiou was mostly enjoyable, especially the latter half of her conversation with the interrogator (I hope he makes a reoccurring appearance. I'm betting he's section 31; If he really gels into his role he could be a major antagonist). I knew they wouldn't just let Mirror Georgiou go like that. They did something to her. Hopefully, the showrunners either will kill her off, or, actually give her some interesting material.

Burnham pinned her hair back. She's not quite as delicious as when its hanging freely, but I'll take it. The sister is fine. (Glad to see Booker back next episode. I ship them. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°))

This episode, like the last one, had some genuinely heart felt moments. I was feeling it. I really enjoyed this one.

Minor quibbles:
Somebody better suggest working with the Discovery's A.I. soon. It's a glaring omission. It probably has a solution for the dilithium problem somewhere in its 100K year history. They need to give it its own episode.

I thought the melody connection was weak. The melody could've spread before for The Burn. They really need to flesh that out in the remaining episodes for it to make sense. I would like for them to introduce a previous little used alien. This might be the impetus for it. Several aliens have only been capable of rudimentary communication with Federation personnel, like those phase shifted (?) aliens in the "one moon circles" episode with Troi or those spatially contorted aliens in that episode with Voyager that downloaded reams of data only to never be mentioned again.

And last but most certainly not least, species 8472. How cool would it be to bring back those telepathic, malevolent entities and make them a threat again, after Voyager neutered one of their best contributions? The Burn could be the result of either of the first two aliens trapped in Federation space searching desperately for help and with only basic communication (the melody) or an attack on the heart of the Federation by species 8472. The melody being some sort of residue from their telepathic presence in the quadrant.

Also, they better upgrade Discovery's weapons and shields with 32nd century technology. From a couple of episodes ago, they'd get wiped out if the spore drive goes down and they have to square up and duke it out with almost any serious contender from that time period.

Bring back the doggone Darmok! If the melody is an attempt at communication, let them be the key to solving it.

Solid 3.5 episode for me. Discovery's finding its flow. Let's hope it continues like this. I'm looking forward to the next episode.
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Quincy
Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 8:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Forget Me Not

@Dave in MN
"Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 2:26pm (UTC -6)
This episode was okay, but I don't see why Discovery constantly needs to rewrite the history of well-established Trek races.

My personal feeling is it's WAY too late to try to retcon the Trill. I found the rewrite of Trill lore, biology and rituals ruined the surprisingly immersive experience I was having up until that point."

I'm with Yanks. What did Discovery change?

And considering that DS9 was the first to start changing the Trill from TNG's original presentation, I really don't see how Discovery could be indicted for any 32nd century changes. DS9 started during TNG. Discovery is what 8 centuries removed from DS9? And they get the blame, while DS9 gets a pass?

Really?!?
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Quincy
Sun, Nov 8, 2020, 8:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Forget Me Not

@Jason R.

lol. For a hot second, I thought you were arguing with your mirror universe counterpart.
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Quincy
Fri, Nov 6, 2020, 10:46am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Forget Me Not

This could've been a really good episode, but they ruined it. The B plot should've been a bit later in the season and had its own episode. It needed far more build up. The dinner scene was poorly executed with the wrong people arguing who previously had no connection with one another. Only Tilly and Stamets had any business jumping down each other's throats. I suppose that it's difficult to do a proper build up with such short seasons, but they can do better than this. The end was ridiculous. I seriously doubt humor translates across the centuries like that. People then won't be laughing at what we're laughing at now for the most part.

Please, kill Georgiou off. Her talents are wasted and they're not giving her any good material anyway.

What's with the dark matter interface subplot? Dark matter was said to be a power source. Stamets is like a GPS of the universe. What would that have to do with a power source? Also, they got rid of most of the dark matter they had saving that planet. Where are they going to get some more? It's something they'd never even seen before that incident with the pulsar. So how would they know where to find any more? I would think that would be the first order of business before using it for critical tech purposes. And it seems like it would be more of a solution for the dilithium problem, not the spore drive problem. Those gel packs from Voyager would make more sense for that and Adira, now that she has her memories, should be able to help them with that.

The sphere data, lets now dispense with that name, is sapient. So the sphere A.I. has integrated with the ship computer, so lets call her Discovery. She would seem to have the information that they need to solve many of their problems. Someone should be working on it round the clock. In fact, a stand alone episode
with this B plot and a concerted effort to interact with Discovery's A.I. would've made for a great episode. She should know just where they can find any amount of dark matter they need. She should know if any species has used it as a power source before and how they did it. It should be 90% of the universe and could supply all the needs for warp in the 32nd century. No more scavenging for dilithium.

The A plot was much better, but still that part where Adira's body disappears really took me out of the scene. Why? Where did it go? Is it a space-time storage pool? Did it stash her behind inside a pocket dimension in subspace? Did it supply the body with life support to keep it from drowning? That was just stupid and unnecessary. They should've just focused on the A plot. We could've seen the state of the Trill civilization. It would've been a great chance for world building. I can only give this episode 2.5 stars with all the mistakes they made.

@Chome
Apparently, Culber had a talk with him, as he went after him when he stormed out of the dinner. It should've been shown, but instead they off screened it.

@John
Did you post that in the wrong forum? No one has been arguing about that on this page, at least that I could find with the search function.
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Quincy
Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 5:27pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: People of Earth

@Leif "@Quincy, why are liquid hydrocarbons patently absurd??"

This is the absolute LAST question I expected you to ask after reading this: "i was really expecting and hoping to see new and wondrous aliens and alien phenomena in the 31s century"

And not to mention this: "I want somethibg bew and wondrous in the 31st century."

But I'll bite. We can only guess which liquid hydrocarbons he's talking about, but petroleum, fuel oil, ethanol, butanol, etc are some common liquid hydrocarbons. You're telling me you don't see the absurdity of anyone from the 31st century needing to research liquid hydrocarbons? They have NUCLEAR FUSION. In fact, it's common place. This is as stupid as the robots in the Matrix needing humans as batteries when they had nuclear fusion.

Liquid hydrocarbons should be completely obsolete, if, we're lucky within the next 80 years. If we're still researching them in the 31st century, we won't be researching anything in the 31st century, because corpses don't do research.
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Quincy
Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 12:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: People of Earth

I could say exactly the same about the self-righteous, false outrage you've expressed for half the page. In any case, didn't you say you weren't going to talk to me anymore? Could've sworn that was the case. It'd be great if you could be a person of your word.
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Quincy
Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 10:59am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: People of Earth

Wow. Three unfathomably stupid @$$ off topic arguments spanning two episodes and generating gigantic walls of text that mean absolutely nothing. I would say it's a record, but knowing this board, it's probably not. The fact that some people care that some dude they've never met turns his head because he doesn't want to see two dudes smooching or notices that some woman gained weight is astounding. Magically, this means he's in need of some sort of chastising. Jesus Christ on a crucifix, find somewhere else to talk about this garbage.
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