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Wisq
Tue, May 21, 2019, 11:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Tomorrow Is Yesterday

A funny romp, but that ending … ugh. There’s just so many things wrong with it:

• How is Christopher’s memory wiped? They just hand-wave it away as “those things haven’t happened yet, so you won’t remember them”, but by that logic, the entire crew should be amnesiacs.
• How do they beam him back into his fighter jet? They destroyed the jet. They would have to radio the other Enterprise and tell them “hey beam this guy out, we’ll beam him back in, and for god’s sake don’t use the tractor beam”.
• The guard on the base — ditto. This one makes even less sense, since they beam the guard out/in at a point when he hadn’t yet found Kirk and Sulu. (In fact, this suggests that the poor guard is now caught in a time loop where he keeps finding Kirk and Sulu, getting beamed out, getting beamed back in a few minutes earlier, finding Kirk and Sulu again, etc.)
• The chronometers going backwards again. That’s not how chronometers work, damnit. (And I always wondered why people on Quora asked silly questions like “if I went backwards in time, what time would my watch say it was?”)
• Seriously, if time travel were this bloody easy, all wars would be time wars and things would just get very ridiculous very fast.

The entire ending of this episode made _no_ sense. I realise this is Trek, and Trek always puts the “fiction” in “science fiction”. But usually they at least try to have some basic consistency in their plots.

Even in that wacky episode with Alice and the White Rabbit and the samurai and the strafing WW2 planes, they wrapped it up nicely with “well your thoughts became real, so weird stuff happened”. This one just seems to give up and go “we’re out of time, let’s just handwave everything away”.
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Quetzalcoatl
Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Brother

Why are they using feet instead of meters in this episode?
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Quincy
Thu, May 2, 2019, 8:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Trent

That's true. But then I'm not one of the ones claiming The Orville is the real Trek, while Discovery is "The Other Show™." So since the comparison has been made by multiple people, it has to be dealt with.
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Quincy
Thu, May 2, 2019, 8:31pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Gerontius

But there is something irrational about confronting people with different preferences and arguing as if your personal preferences were objectively better. Hence, my point.
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Quincy
Thu, May 2, 2019, 8:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Elliot cameo FTW!!!

OmicronThetaDeltaPhi says:
"Or in less dramatic, less confrontational terms: Liking/disliking a show is an emotional reaction, and people tend to give more leeway to shows that they like.

The way you posted it, it sounds like you made a shocking revelation of some corrupt conspiracy, when you've simply stated the obvious."

Dave in MN was pulling an Alan Roi. I respond to him in kind. You then walk past all of that to admonish me about being confrontational? Really?!? Have you met Alan Roi?! Because, you don't seem to be aware of how ridiculous that state of affairs happens to be. It's hilarious how people want to police my tone, but they never seem to police the tone of the people I'm replying to in the first place.

If I was making a "shocking revelation of some corrupt conspiracy," why in the world would I refer to it as a "lampshade"? What is the definition of "lampshading" and how does it apply to Galadriel's statement? And what's the relevance of it in my comment to Dave? Please, try to at least think about these questions before replying.



OmicronThetaDeltaPhi says:
"At any rate, here is an interesting question that you might want to think about: WHY are so many people fans of the Orville? Sure, it's an emotional decision. But why? Hint: it's not because the show excels at (or even attempts to be) hard sci fi."

I would assume they like it for many of the same reasons I do. It's funny sometimes and gives you that old Trek nostalgia. It's got good special effects, a decent cast, and it's science fiction, for god's sake. What's not to like?

But waitaminute! Hint? Was that your version of a "shocking revelation"? Cause I gotta tell you. I'm at least as underwhelmed as you were.



OmicronThetaDeltaPhi says:
"But it's a matter of degree. In the Orville it happens occasionally, and most of the time it isn't too difficult to retcon the nits away. In Discovery, on the other hand, the entire show made a complete mess of previous Trek continuity. The situation was so hopeless that the show runners were forced to go the "let's pertend the previous two seasons never happened" route. That's a pretty big difference, I'll say."

Discovery did mess with continuity. That's undeniable. Yes, this does annoy me, like a lot of other people. However, you seem to be speaking out of both sides of your fingertips. On the one hand, you're calling me Mr. Obvious for bothering to point at the subjective nature of it all. (Possibly, because you didn't see what I was actually pointing at.) On the other hand, now you seem to be reaching for some nonexistent objectivity.

it's a matter of degree... TO YOU. That's what's important... TO YOU. Other people are looking at things from an entirely different point of view. I for one like both Discovery and The Orville. And I can look at any given episode of either and admit when something is ridiculous. This episode of the Orville was ridiculous.
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 7:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Dave in MN

Go watch that episode where The Orville dives into 2D space. Then come back and watch this episode where they dive into the event horizon of a black hole. Note the very obvious difference, besides the fact that that episode was actually funny. That's actually what I was expecting. There's a singular problem. The Krill are coming to kill them. The quantum drive is down. The only way out is for them to dip into 2D space and escape. But, how does a 3D life form survive in 2D space? LaMarr realizes that, while the engine realignment is keeping them from going to quantum speed, the quantum field generator is working. They figure out that they can use it to place a quantum bubble around the ship. Isaac explains that the bubble is maintaining a third dimension outside of 2D space for the Orville to safely exist in.

Let's put aside for a moment that the nonexistence of our third dimension isn't exactly the same phenomenon as crushing gravity. Look at how the two episodes handled the phenomenon. In New Dimensions they spend 30 seconds screen time discussing the idea, because the idea is clearly NUTS. They don't have much choice; the Krill are coming to kill them in 14 minutes of in universe time and the quantum drive is out. Ed makes a command decision. They spend about 1 minute screen time implementing the idea and working out the issues. They leave right before the Krill show up. It's touch and go inside 2D space, but they just barely squeak out a win and when they come out the Krill are gone. They breathe a sigh of relief at their very narrow victory. It makes logical sense that the Krill might not know exactly where they went or what the hell to do about it if they did. It also makes logical sense that they might not care since the ship with their stolen guns is floating right there in front of them and they can get their cargo back and be on their merry way.

In this episode, the Kaylon are coming to kill them. Their quantum drive just got knocked out again. They can't escape, so they need somewhere to hide. Ed's idea is to hide inside the black hole. The idea is obviously NUTS. They spend 15 seconds discussing this obviously fruit loop idea. LaMarr says if they dip inside the black hole just beyond the event horizon they should be safe. They fly directly into black hole AT FULL SPEED AHEAD, yet somehow stop just inside the event horizon. (Law of conservation of momentum anybody?!? Those must be American made quantum engines, built Ford tough!) Remember that none of them know anything about the 2D space event, as this is a different timeline. Kelly is the only one who MIGHT know of it, since she spent time reading her future self's logs. (Here's a novel concept; why the hell doesn't she bring this up?!? It would've taken 1 minute and 30 seconds like it did the first time. If she had, I MIGHT NOT have a problem with at least that part of this silly episode! Funny that, huh?)

LaMarr also said the Kaylons won't see them because light can't escape. Now really think about that for a moment. Didn't the Kaylons see them fly their asses into the black hole? It certainly looked like they did. They hung around outside for two days searching for something. Didn't the Kaylons wonder why they'd fly into a black hole willingly rather than just fight it out if they wanted to die so badly? Then they just fly right out of the event horizon. Contrary to popular belief, there is no bubble around the ship. We can clearly see the bubble you mentioned in New Dimensions. We see absolutely no bubble in Road Not Taken. There is no mention of the field generator being active despite the drive being down. There's no mention of anything. They just fly in and fly out like it's totally routine to site see inside the event horizon of a black hole. But if it's as routine to do what they did, why wouldn't the Kaylons do it too? They have the quantum drive too. And theirs weren't offline. Not only that, they can literally transfer their consciousness through their internet connection, so unlike the humans there's absolutely no danger if they screw up, just a loss of equipment. You're telling me you don't see the logical inconsistency here?

Lets stop pretending. What's really going on with your arguments is something else entirely. Lets look at the nice fat lampshade posted by Galadriel (you know... the other person that leaped to the defense of this obviously idiotic episode) that's sitting somewhere above this post:

Galadriel says:
"I’d probably pan The Other Show™ merci­less­ly for these plot­holes. But strange­ly, they don’t affect me as badly in this show. Maybe I am a hypo­crite..." (FULL STOP)

See this is what I'm talking about. There's a cult of personal preferences at work here, not only with Galadriel, but with you as well. You've DECIDED you don't like Discovery and you DECIDED that you do like the Orville. Now you're pretending that you have rational reasons for both of those purely emotional decisions. However, ALL detractors arguments against Discovery are ALL applicable here; this episode was flat out absurd. Lets look at your arguments. You don't like Discovery crapping all over Canon CONTINUITY across multiple franchises separated by decades. However The Orville craps all over its own CONTINUITY within a single season by having Kaylons not being aware some of them are being attacked by humans in the previous Kaylon two parter. Meanwhile, as others point out here in this episode, Kaylons are instantaneously aware that a disassembled unit is being downloaded and hacked, because all Kaylons everywhere are interlinked. Dafuq?!? Explain your way out of this one if it helps you sleep better tonight. But, I promise you, you won't be convincing me of anything without better logic than you've presented here today.
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 3:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Jim1701
"@Quincy......

You can get your point across, if you have one, without the language.

This is a forum for discussion and points can be made without fuc*ing
this and fuc*ing that."

Hmm. Honest question. Are you Jammer and you just changed your name?
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 3:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Holy $#!%, Batman!

Dave in MN is arguing that $#!% that obviously doesn't make any sense actually made sense!!!

He's a god damned Orville flavored Alan Roi!!! Somebody call a physicist or Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson or Michio Kaku!!! We must have ran into a quantum filament or some $#!% like that!!!
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I'm 24 minutes in and I'm like dafuq?!? They flew into the event horizon of a fucking black hole. A fucking black ass hole, people. They hang out for a few minutes watching the pretty Kalon dance show at the MGM Black Hole Grand. Then they just fly the fuck out of the event horizon like it's easy peasy lemon squeezy?!? Even Interstellar was like, we got to take a stroll through the 5th dimension to get out of this mother lover.

Once again, dafuq?!?
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 1:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I'm 11 minutes in and I'm like dafuq?!? Ed's penis being barred from Kelly's vagina has caused the destruction of "half the galaxy." Once again, dafuq?!?
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Quincy
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 7:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Pointing out flawed arguments, while simultaneously describing how the scene is actually stupid, doesn't even rise to the level of a backhanded compliment, let alone an apology.
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Quincy
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 4:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@wolfstar

"This explains the retconning of the signals. Brother introduces the seven original signals, which all appear over a 24-hour period, are mapped by Starfleet and drawn by young Spock in a premonition. The new signals that happen after that in New Eden and The Sound Of Thunder are correctly treated not as part of the original seven but as *additional signals*. It's only later on in the season (after Berg and Harberts had gone) that these were retconned as being the second and third signal (which they clearly weren't). In the Kurtzman half of the season, new signals that follow are then explicitly referred to as "the fourth of seven" and "the fifth of seven" etc."

There's a problem with this point of view. The signals were only "mapped by Starfleet" in a very general sense. Brother explicitly states that Starfleet couldn't get a definite "fix" on all seven signals. They only had generalized locations for them. The signals came and went too fast. And when they attempted to scan for a definite location their instruments went haywire. Saru speculates that they are temporal in nature and that's why they can't get a reading on them. Only the first signal's definitive location is revealed by the "stabilized" signal in that episode. Pike himself says so, as well as the Enterprise crewman that got killed. That automatically means they intended to countdown the signals one by one from the very beginning, as each location was sent a stabilized signal and triangulated.

I'm pretty sure Burnham was always supposed to be in the red suit, if for no other reason than she's always the focus of the series.

At this point, reading over some of the comments, I can see many of Alan Roi's frustrations with this board. Multiple people ask the same questions or raise the same issues that have already been answered. When they are answered, it is hardly ever acknowledged that they have been answered. For instance, with regard to the blast doors. Yes, to me, it is a stupid scene, but not for the reasons most people keep raising. Multiple people, John Harmon, Karl Zimmerman, Trent, Kinematic, raise the issue that it's somehow odd that the one torpedo didn't destroy the entire ship. To one of which, Alan makes this reply:

Alan Roi
"@Kinematic

We've seen plenty of ships in Star Trek that have been damaged by photon torpedos and are still partially intact. However Federation starships are built, its enough not to be hit by a photon torpedo and go poof."

This is only acknowledged by one person, as far as, I can see, who speculated all those ships had their shields up. This statement is demonstrably false, as this scene from Undiscovered Country indicates, where two unshielded ships take direct hits from a single photon torpedo apiece without being destroyed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg58hVEY5Og

The evidence in this movie is quite conclusive. No. One photon torpedo is not going to destroy an entire Federation level ship, even an unshielded one, unless it hits in a particularly vulnerable spot. Other than the bridge, the Federation star ship saucer section isn't a particularly vulnerable spot. We see that very clearly in the clip I posted from a universally loved Star Trek movie.

To me, the main things wrong with that scene are 1) no attempt to beam out the Admiral 2) one lever on the side most likely to trap a crewman trying to seal off a section, 3) no attempt to try one of those probe/drones used previously for repairs to trigger the blast door, and 4) Pike standing there looking retarded, instead of running for his fucking life. A single torpedo NOT destroying the entire ship is NOT one of the things wrong with that scene.

And can people please stop complaining about what are most likely transparent aluminum windows in the blast door and the spore drive chamber. You know, the same material that comprised a "60 by 10 tank" with only one inch thick walls, holding "18,000 cubic feet of water," not to mention, two full grown humpback whales. Why people thought Cyber Leland should punch through something they felt comfortable putting the Tardigrade alien in is beyond me.
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Quincy
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 12:42am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@wolfstar
"Something else just occurred to me: the crystal-powered time suit allows Burnham to jump to different times, but how does she jump through space as well? She jumps tens of thousands of light years back and forth across the galaxy, to the USS Hiawatha -> Terralysium -> Kaminar -> Boreth -> Zahea, just in her suit, and the only technology we've seen that is able to do that is the spore drive. Ditto Momma Burnham. Are we supposed to assume that the time crystals have the power to create wormholes that instantly teleport people across the galaxy as well as through time?"

She's using wormholes. The main thing that wormholes do is bridge two points in space. If it's possible in the story to create them from scratch, why would this be a problem?
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Gq1
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 2:14pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

"Well, all these terms do shift a lot. I still don't quiet understand what 'neoliberal' means. Everyone seem to be using it with a different meaning."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
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Quincy
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 1:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

PLEASE, Jammer make an Expanse section!

C'mon, Alan Roi. It's like you actually believe Discovery is perfect. I understand a spirited defense against the haters that won't even give Discovery a chance or who nitpick it to death, but you behave as if there's nothing about it worth criticizing. IMO ALL Star Trek series were mostly atrocious in their first 2 seasons. Discovery for me has been more entertaining than most of them, during its first two seasons. However, there are clear issues with it deserving of criticism. That blast door scene was absurd. I don't see how you can't just admit that and move on. What you're doing is similar to a TNG fan arguing that the scene in 'Conspiracy,' where Picard dodges phaser fire AFTER the phaser was actually fired, wasn't absurd. That makes your "spirited defense" much less credible.

I've had similar criticisms about every single Star Trek Series. Kirk had to be involved in everything. He had to go on all the best away missions and be the one coming up with most of the solutions to most of the problems. "Let me do something!" Spock of all people couldn't beat him in chess. (Dafuq?!?) Only Kirk could figure out the alien's weakness to light in Operation Annihilation! (Dafuq?!?) Kirk had to be the one to physically fight Kahn, when Spock is the one trained in martial arts and almost as strong as Kahn. (Dafuq?!?) I remember being 12 years old watching Star Trek reruns and complaining about this out loud and my whole family laughing about how putrid it was. Guess what? It was putrid then and it's just as puke worthy now that Burnham's the one doing it.

@Boomer
That was... asinine. I thought you'd stopped interacting with me? Could've sworn that was one of your posts?! Notice how I stopped talking to you at the precise instant you did. In this case, I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking about that Axiom person with that dog whistling nonsense about "misogynist REACTIONARY claims."
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whatqnavry
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 1:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Agent K: "how the hell can they ERASE the whole Discovery from the existence?"

Section 31 has ways...
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4Q2
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 4:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

Trekkiest episode yet.

Directed by Riker
Troi is a teacher
Klingon lawyer from DS9 (Rules of Engagement) as a Union admiral
Evil fresh-stretching Son'A from Insurrection as the council leader
Fukkin KURN!!!!!!!!

Geek ahoy!
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Quincy
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Wil Wheaton has talked about people approaching him and criticizing Wesley Crusher at Star Trek conventions. There's no debate about how much he was hated. There just wasn't an Internet to spread the anti-love around, during TNG's run.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/97243/what-was-the-general-contemporary-reaction-to-wesley-crusher-as-a-character/97244#97244
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Quincy
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Chrome

"I seem to remember that in Q Who the Enterprise was tossed to Beta"

"Nope."

According to Star Trek: Star Charts (p. 13) and Stellar Cartography: The Starfleet Reference Library ("Federation Historical Highlights, 2161-2385"), System J-25 (FGC-J25) was located in the Beta Quadrant. - From Memory Alpha

The Borg Collective controlled much of the Delta Quadrant. That's apparently their home quadrant. If you look at the quadrant map on Memory Alpha, depending on exact origin and destination, you see there's a good chance you'll pass through the Beta quadrant on your way to the Alpha quadrant from the Delta Quadrant. The Borg were on their way to Earth due to the signal sent in Star Trek: Enterprise, "Regeneration."
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Quincy
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 1:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

I really enjoyed this episode for the most part. Even though they had to mar the ending with more maudlin displays of worship from Spock right when time is of the essence, on the whole the ending was a lot better than I was expecting. I really hope there will be a season 3 and that season continues in the future with the Discovery crew. I really don't want a Pike oriented show. I didn't like Mount's portrayal of Pike, unlike most other people apparently. Strange, since I loved him on Hell on Wheels. He was way too low key for me. I remember Pike on TOS as being more aggressive than that. Sorry, not sorry. Don't want to see Star Trek: Pike next season.

This is a golden opportunity to pick up the show in the future. I think the cast could really come into its own next season. I've got my fingers crossed that there will be a next season. If it continues, I have high hopes for the show.

Their bringing back the Doctor annoyed me. However, his love proclamation wasn't quite (by a hair) as putrid as I expected it to be. At least, he stopped treating Stamets like $#!% for no reason under the sun. I guess you kind of needed him back since they didn't do anything to develop the other doctor, who was so generic I can barely remember her and I just watched the episode.

Some other things that annoyed me. I knew Control would be defeated in some simple, lackluster fashion. There wasn't enough time left in the season for anything else. Somehow an obviously distributed A.I. that can effectively control multiple ships is defeated by taking down a single iteration of it, using a technique used on it before? Really?!? Also, Saru's sister, the sudden onset fighter pilot?! Dafuq?!? If it had properly been set up, it would've been epic. They partially laid the groundwork with the Kelpien centered episode. All we needed was some indication of the two species working together under Starfleet direction.

I thought they were going to have the Queen go with them to the future, but nope. I would prefer she go rather than that @$$#0l3 Reno or whatever her name is. I was starting to like her character. Sorry to see her go. However, I guess the bright side of that is I don't have to see her constantly interacting with Tilly. More Queen = more Tilly. No Queen = less Tilly?! Maybe?!?

The time suit opens up a new possibility. Even if they get rid of the time aspect, the suit can travel by means of wormholes. They could revamp to power it using nothing but dark matter, get rid of the time crystal, and retrofit Discovery to use wormhole technology for FTL instead of the Spore drive. Only problem is I think Stamets wouldn't have anything to do without the Spore Drive and I'm hoping they don't kill him off. I don't remember all of his expertise but it was mainly concerning the spore lifeforms and the drive. Although he did help in constructing the suit, so maybe he'll just be an engineer afterwards or science officer. That begs the question of why you would need Reno if Stamets can do her job?

P.S.
Jesus Christ on a crucifix. Invasion of the Thought Police much? Just... stahp with the doublespeak and doublethink. I came to talk about Discovery, a show I like and have high hopes for. Animal farmers showing up policing tone, language, and thought processes is like eye torture. Just shout in all capitals, "LANGUAGE!," like Captain America in Age of Ultron, and be done with it. It's much shorter, about as substantive, and won't derail the conversation.
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 7:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Yeah. Because the rest of Starfleet has a squeaky clean record on the infiltration/penetration front. Nobody wants Discovery's cooties!!! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

In any case, that's besides the point. I don't ask that Discovery's crew be clued in to all that's going on in the Milky Way. I ask that the viewers receive proper foreshadowing and depiction of prominent events in the Control arc. You know? Like $#!% leading up to the climax of the god damn season.

By your logic, if Lord of the Rings Trilogy focused wholly and solely on Frodo's mission to dispose of the ring with only nebulous hints of the larger battle against Sauron and his forces that makes for wonderful storytelling. We don't need to hear about Gandalf, Aragorn, or Isengard. To hell with the Army of the Dead vs Gothmog's forces. All that is above Frodo's pay grade anyway and therefore ours too. In fact, Frodo is all we'll ever need to see to understand that story. So put the spotlight on his @$$ and don't move it an inch!!!

Yes. That was just to see Michael. That's why they warped away after doing just that. Do you have any evidence otherwise?

Admiral Cornwell has been on hand since her first rendezvous with Discovery. How would that suddenly indicate she was there specifically for a last ditch effort to stop Control?

Ok, now that you've knocked down your straw man can we take a look at what I actually said?

Me: "The problem with that idea is that they have NO WAY even hinted at of stopping Control. Logically, they shouldn't be able to stop control with the resources they have available versus what he's bringing to the table. There's no type of allusion to a plan beyond fast forwarding Discovery. With the lack of foreshadowing on HOW they plan to confront Control, such notions ring hollow. Therefore there can only be an ass pull in the next episode if indeed they do end up stopping Control."

Clearly, I'm talking about HOW they plan to confront Control. There's been no mention of how they even plan to approach this. Meanwhile, we've known for quite a few episodes how important time crystals, dark matter, etc will play into the role of Discovery's mission to protect the Sphere data. For the climax of the battle against Control, all we have now is "Let me do something!"
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Quincy
Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 1:33am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

I have a feeling that the Queen's dilithium rejuvenation trick is going to be used to regenerate the time crystal itself so they can all get home. Otherwise, I don't see why she's going along. I actually would prefer that Discovery remain in the future. I've wanted all along to see events occurring in the time period after Voyager's return.

Lynos questioned the point of stopping them from firing the torpedoes. He says, "I assume Michael's conclusion is that firing on Discovery will lead to a chain of events that will result in Control taking over." That's correct IMO. She's trying to interrupt the future she's just witnessed twice. People point out that there's no connection to the premonitions Burnham sees consecutively on the bridge. That's actually irrelevant. The real point is that nothing has changed between the time they decided to destroy Discovery and when she first touched the time crystal to when they're about to try to do so. She still sees their deaths at Control's hands, as she did when she touched the crystal. What this means from her perspective is that the track they were on right up to her seeing that game over premonition the second time, WHATEVER PRECEDED IT (this means you Sphere shields up premonition), is the wrong track. It is imperative they get off that track. Hence her urgency.

She doesn't know what Reno sees after they decide to use the crystal. If you look closely at Reno's vision. It's slightly different than Burnham's. You have to rewind and slow mo it to see it, but Control attacks engineering in Reno's vision, instead of the bridge. And this time Georgiou is standing next to the security officer in engineering with phasers out ready, instead of Georgiou getting knocked to the floor on the bridge and getting shot before she can regain her footing. So it appears, Burnham already changed something with this new plan from what was originally slated to happen. Stamets also appears to be seriously injured in Reno's vision. I do hope they're not planing on killing him off.

Yes it's odd that they automatically accept her conclusion without any corroboration and without any alternative. However, I believe what they are showing is very similar to how Picard often accepts Data's word without any corroboration, even over Commander Riker's, as he did in Cause and Effect. Yes, I know Burnham is no Data. However, I believe that they were trying to show the crew's imminent trust in Burnham. What they should've done instead is simply had her tell Pike she touched the crystal. Pike would instantly know the gravity of what she was saying, due to having touched the time crystal himself. Being the captain, he would overrule any objections.

I believe Alan Roi is implying that the "advantage" of sitting there with the Sphere data is baiting Control to draw it in to stop it. The problem with that idea is that they have no way even hinted at of stopping Control. Logically, they shouldn't be able to stop control with the resources they have available versus what he's bringing to the table. There's no type of allusion to a plan beyond fast forwarding Discovery. With the lack of foreshadowing on how they plan to confront Control, such notions ring hollow. Therefore there can only be an ass pull in the next episode if indeed they do end up stopping Control. I don't guess they're just going to magnetize the floor again. Control would've thought up a contingency by now.
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Quincy
Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 8:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Wow. Terrible episode. Really disappointed. You're supposed to save your best for last. The writers did exactly the opposite. All the maudlin displays of endearment just went on forever. We're approaching the climax of the arc. Yet the writers are bogging us down in personal issues. The current star trek movies do the same things. This seems to be a millennial oriented quirk, where the world is ending and you take time to talk about your relationship, even though time is of the essence. That said, it's ridiculous that the Doctor just discarded Stamets like excess litter, even though he's less of an ahole this week. At this point, Stamets just needs to move on. Hopefully, the Doctor really will go with Enterprise and we won't see him next season.

Their strategy just made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why didn't they retrieve the queen and then immediately jump to a secure location, where they'd have more time to work on the suit? I know the setup with the countdown until Control is on that ass is for suspense's sake, but it's not suspenseful when it's totally unnecessary. Not to mention, they're so lackadaisical about imminent throw down. They don't even have their shields up when Control drops out of warp. Why the hell didn't Control start beaming infiltrators on board, like instantaneously?!?

How does this stop Control anyway? It only protects the Sphere data and keeps Control from leveling up immediately into something unstoppable. However, Control at this point is powerful enough to just keep assimilating people until it has enough bodies to do exactly what it wants to do. In fact, I don't even see why it's forcing a confrontation now. It doesn't need the Sphere data anymore. If I were Control I'd take my Section 31 star ships and assimilate world after world in the boondocks until I had so much industrial economy of scale that I could build a million star ships to roll over the galaxy.

I don't see why writers write themselves into corners like this. I know it's sometimes difficult to see the pitfalls in your own writing, but they have an editorial staff I'm sure.
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Maq
Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:52am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

@Alan Roi

It was the 70 minutes frist within the plot that irritede me. Had they said we have 48 hours to sort it out all these actions would have been "relistic". If you can speak of realism in sci-fy. Keep in mind that they also had to build finsh this strange time trave suite. I am normally not so fuzzy regarding details but I do not se any reason for making it unrelistic in this way.

The story iteslf I enjoyed even if I was not overwhelmed . Also the patheic stuff was ok. In earlier Treks there was not so much of these kind of feelings involved. It is ok to include it , also the very large amount of femal charcter is ok. I actually prefer it. I do look forward to next episode.
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Maq
Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:08am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Having accepted that the antology time ist past. I try to enjoy the show. I do , mostly. It is still entertaining but not in the way that I like. I have also a quite big tolerance for minor flaws in the script. But .... they have 57 minutes until Enterprise will arrive , 10 minutes until control arrives.

What happens?

Michael is walking in the corridors having philosophical discussions with Giorgiou. Sarek and Amanda turns up for a little chat. A goodbye from the window. Then she starts to watch an instruction video from her mother. Tilly turns up for a chat. Then meeting in the corridor with the bridge crew.

Probably Pike is steering discovery alone or auto pilot. A small chat over the future. Then taking goodbye of Tylor. This takes 46 minutes. +1 minutes until Enterprise will arrive. Now obviously Pike gets a little stressed and calls for her. No hurry, time for a long kiss. The bridge crew goes to their apartment’s start recording messages to their loved ones. Stammets have also everything under control, his men and women.
Michael arrives to the bridge, the other bridge crew that just where in their compartments are already there, very efficient in going to thier cabns and then to the bridge. The Tylor kiss must have been longer than shown. The farewell speech from Pike starts , discovery turns up. It’s now 8 minutes to go. Speech ready, 5 minutes until control arrives. Start to evacuate those who wants to leave. Now back to work. O now we need to honour the captain first.
Unfortunately there is still some engineering problems. Reno volunteers to make the final sacrifice. A short goodbye.
On the Bridge there is now 30 second to go. Time for Pic and co to calmly beam back.

Dear scriptwriters, if you read this. I accept parallel universes, beaming, time travel , strange metaphysic and things that you need to invent to get a story. I tolerate you making a good soap instead of the old fashion story telleing but please get this thing reasonable realistic. It is not neccesary to irritate us with such poor scriptwriting.
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