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pachazo
Tue, Jun 3, 2014, 11:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

@Jo Jo Meastro - Yes, I think that audiences would have been pissed off if they had killed Kirk. However, if you could explain the alternate ending to them (Kirk is resurrected ten minutes later by Khan's magic blood) then they would have gladly let Kirk die. Better to be bold than to perform a massive cop out at the end of your film.
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Pachazo
Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:20am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

@Grumpy, I share your sentiments. There is truly no need to spend so much money making a film just for the sake of creating a huge spectacle. The story certainly does become incidental. The quote you posted from Lindelof captures this perfectly. They really seemed to be confused on what direction to take.

Sometimes limitations force you to become more creative. It would be interesting to see what they could come up with if they had only half the budget. Actually it probably wouldn't. It would just expose them as the frauds they are.
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Pachazo
Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 6:59am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

@CadetNorris
I agree with you that in ST 2009 they did a good job of exploring this alternate universe angle but in Into Darkness I just got the feeling that they were ripping off TWOK. Yes, they put a "clever" twist on it by reversing who died but it felt forced as opposed to the fresh, new ideas that we saw in the previous movie.

You also said that... "Personally, I don't feel any of the story threads put forth in STID go against the established characters or framework of the setting." Ok, you made a good point about Spock being messed up in the head due to the destruction of Vulcan but don't you feel that this Spock is a little too emotional? It took Spock Prime years to come to grips with his emotions. He is extremely reserved. It doesn't make sense for him to completely lose control of himself when he has spent so many years fighting to hide his emotions.

I also think that they got the character of Khan completely wrong. The biggest sin was when they showed him crying in front of Kirk and Spock. Khan had a very aggressive and dominant personality. He would never show a sign of weakness in front of another Alpha male, in this case Kirk. I know that he was trying to manipulate him but this was not Khan's style.

I am curious to know your thoughts on this. Everyone else feel free to comment as well.
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Pachazo
Thu, Jul 4, 2013, 9:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

@Macca
I guess I am waiting for the official announcement of who is going to be writing the script. I still have faith, although my expectations will remain low, that in the right hands this could be done well. If it is indeed the same writers then I probably will skip it.
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Pachazo
Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 11:38am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

Hey all. I just saw the film last weekend so I'm sorry to join in a little late here. As the shock of what I saw is starting to wear off and turn into anger I feel the need to express my frustration. As a favor to all I will try to keep my nerd rage to a minimum and just cover the things that bothered me the most.

I'd like to begin by saying that I actually like ST 2009. It's not perfect by any means and perhaps it's not even Trek. However, even though I have a few issues with said film, I find it to be a rather fun and engaging piece of entertainment. Perhaps I was just waxing nostalgic but I enjoyed seeing these characters again for the first time and thought that the actors, for the most part, did a good job.

But that's the trick of it now isn't it? It's a giant spectacle with a plethora of eye candy and scene after scene of high adrenaline, heart pounding action that tries desperately to cover up it's greatest weakness. Telling an interesting and intellectually stimulating story. That is the core of Star Trek. A great Trek episode/movie makes you think. It is deep, has many layers and speaks a universal truth that affects us profoundly.

Star Trek Into Darkness is perhaps the antithesis to this. It is the most cliched, basic and unoriginal story that one could possibly conceive of. Many people do not notice this though because they are "wowed" by the (admittedly impressive) special effects and action scenes that look like they belong in the latest superhero film. I was completely bored during the climatic and supposedly "epic" fight between Spock and Khan. Except when I was laughing.

Is this seriously what Star Trek has become? These writers are just a bunch of hacks who come up with some amusing ideas for particular scenes but have no idea how to weave them together into a coherent narrative. They have built their house upon an unstable foundation and it is sinking faster than the planet Vulcan imploded into itself via a black hole caused by "red matter'. Remember that one? They sure do know how to spin a good yarn don't they?

Oh, I'm rambling. Let's just get on with it then shall we?

1) Benedict Cumberbatch is a fine actor but he is not Khan. Let's not even get into the fact that it's strange to see a pasty white British guy in the role. If the character had been written with more than just the slightest resemblance of who Khan was then I could easily see past this. The fact of the matter is that this villain could have been anyone. Apparently they have revealed now that they shoehorned him into the script at the last minute. Well, it shows. This Khan does not quote Milton but he does cry while he paints himself as a victim who was forced to commit acts of terrorism to free his people. Khan would never show any sign of weakness in front of his enemies. He had a domineering personality and a very strong presence about him. It would seem that a strong presence is not needed when you are Superman. Yes, Khan was genetically enhanced and was stronger and smarter than the average man. In this movie though SuperKhan can be punched repeatedly in the face by Kirk and not feel a thing. In Space Seed Kirk knocks Khan out with some sort of club he pulls out of the engineering console. This Khan also has no conflict with Kirk. He seeks revenge on Admiral Whatever and simply uses Kirk as a means to achieve his goal. Khan's lust for vengeance is nowhere near as interesting when it's not aimed at Kirk. The whole idea of his revenge was based on their conflict in the first place. Khan tried to take over his ship and failed. He was then exiled and after catastrophe struck he blamed Kirk for all of his pain and suffering, including the death of his wife. In Into Darkness Kirk is pissed off because Khan killed Pike so they reverse the revenge angle. How clever. It's not the only clever reverse angle used in the movie though! Just wait until they really show off their writing skills! I'll give you a hint. SuperKhan has magic blood. I don't even know where to begin with that so I won't even bother. Lastly, I really missed the exclusion of the scene showing us the Botany Bay adrift in space. With all of the money put into CGI I think that they really could have created an impressive scene of beaming aboard Khan's ship and finding the creepy frozen people asleep in the tubes.

2)It was a huge mistake to recreate the death scene. Did they think that they were being ironic by switching who died? It was lost on me. It seemed rather forced as Kirk was extremely anxious to commit suicide. In the Wrath of Khan there was a theme about aging and death that was all tied in with the Kobayashi Maru scene at the beginning of the film that culminated with Spock's sacrifice as his solution to the no win scenario. This idea of Kirk sacrificing himself goes against the character's belief of not accepting a no win scenario. Especially young Kirk. He was the man who saved his crew from certain death time and time again, all the while patting himself on the back for it. Of course I buy into the idea that Kirk is committed to protecting his crew but he would have found another way. This was just not his style. It was much more befitting of Spock, who looked at things with the cold efficiency of a mathematical equation. Kirk and Spock were also much older in TWOK, with years of friendship and professional service between them. In STID Kirk and Spock have known each other for what, a year? How close were they in that time? There seemed to be a lot of bickering between them. This death scene was forced and had no meaning. There was no poetry in it. Then Spock yells KHAAAAAAAAAAAN and you realize that it's all a joke. This can't be taken seriously can it? Spock then goes on a mad, illogical rampage to catch Khan. By himself. Why? So we can have the obligatory big dumb action climax. They are jumping from extraordinary heights onto moving platforms or whatever they are. Yawn. Then the funniest part of the whole movie happens. Spock gives Khan the Vulcan neck pinch but Khan gets a mad face and starts yelling and effectively "screams it off". Wow. Then Uhura beams over and shoots him. Kirk is saved by the magic blood and all is well. Hey, let's start a five year mission. Khan is frozen and ready for a sequel. The End.

3)Random nitpicks. Didn't the black guy at the beginning of the movie seem overly eager to die as well? I understand that he made a deal but after his daughter's life was saved wouldn't he have had a strong instinct to preserve his life? Wouldn't he have at least tried to do something different? It's one thing to kill yourself but to set off a bomb and take all those innocent people with you... What will your daughter think of you now?
Having Carol Marcus in this movie was pointless. Why include her if she is not going to be romantically involved with Kirk?
Speaking of romance, Spock and Uhura have absolutely no chemistry with each other. It was kind of weird in the first one but here it just seems so forced. I'm tired of it at this point.
So 72 torpedoes can't destroy a starship? I hope the Federation can find the blueprints so they can build a fleet of these bad boys. I'm sure it will just be forgotten though.

I realize that I shouldn't have let it bother me so much. No one should get that upset over a movie. There are much bigger problems in life to deal with. I can't help but feel insulted though. Since TWOK is one of my all time favorite movies I understand that I'm going to be more critical of this than the average cinema goer. Isn't it sad though that so many people are watching Star Trek for the first time and think that this is all there is to it? I don't know. I'm finished.
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