Comment Stream

Search and bookmark options Close
Search for:
Search by:
Clear bookmark | How bookmarks work
Note: Bookmarks are ignored for all search results

Total Found: 5 (Showing 1-5)

Page 1 of 1
Set Bookmark
Oriza
Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 10:45am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

Also, I didn't see a problem with letting Bashir retain his commission in exchange for his father being imprisoned. It wasn't Bashir's fault he was engineered-- or that he had to lie because Starfleet has this fucked-up attitude towards kids who were enhanced without consent. His father was the piece of shit who destroyed a six-year-old for not being "good enough"; his father deserves the consequences.
Set Bookmark
Oriza
Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 10:12am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

@William B

That's an excellent point regarding Jadzia. I'd much rather have that as a headcanon than Bashir just liking her because she's pretty (even though it's certainly true!)

I like this episode-- because I like basically all the DS9 episodes that deal with heavy gray ethical stuff rather than black-and-white morality-- but I absolutely agree with everyone else who said that they should've spent more time focusing on the ramifications of Bashir's time in the prison camp. One of the best things about DS9 is how it's not serialized, and it lets its characters grow and learn from things that happen in previous episodes.

In season 2 or even 3, I would've expected them to completely ignore his time in the prison camp. But it's season 5 now. If we can have Eddington becoming a Maquis, or Dukat disowning his daughter for choosing DS9 over him, there's absolutely no reason not to spend at least *some* of what is literally a *Bashir-centric episode* talking about the impacts of camp 317.
Set Bookmark
oriza
Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 7:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

"The Nazi German example isn't a particularly helpful one because it's so extreme that almost no one credibly can use it in any contemporary analogy without engaging in hyperbole (I.e. Godwin's Law) thereby wrecking their credibility with anyone who could potentially be drawn into a different story's orbit (continuing the gravity analogy)"

Good point. Nazi Germany is a very black-and-white analogy, although I used it here because I think it's the allegory that DS9 is at least partially going for. However, I think anyone could easily substitute it with other moral and ethical dilemmas. The abuse of farmworkers, sweatshop workers, conflict minerals...the list goes on.

"I doubt very many people knew they were supporting the "bad guys" even out of fear. This is more revisionist retrospective analysis from the point of view of a story that hadn't been written at the time - at least not the final draft. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts many even most on the bad side didn't even know they were the bad guys."

Gotta disagree with you here. If people back then didn't realize that supporting their country as they herd kids into barracks and separating them from their parents isn't a war crime, I'm not quite sure what it would take to convince them. If people today can't see that it's completely appalling to rip families apart at the border as they come to seek a better life after we Americans fucked up their country so bad that they can't survive; if they can't see that waterboarding prisoners at Abu Ghraib isn't straight-up torture...I don't know what to tell you.

Here's a good article by the NY Times that does a better job articulating what I"m trying to say. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/opinion/14rich2.html
Set Bookmark
oriza
Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 8:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

Oh, also, if you're gonna say something like "quit dragging US politics into Star Trek"...this is DS9. Get a grip. The whole goddamn show is one long political drama with some spaceships thrown in.
Set Bookmark
oriza
Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 8:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

"Cardassian occupation is often a Nazi allegory, and a lot of the French underground did look down on other French citizens who didn't keep the fight going as partisans. Some of them consider them all as collaborators and some considered any French women who had children with German soldiers as traitors."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what they were going for here.

I didn't interpret Nerys' hatred for collaborators as a hatred for all comfort women. Collaborators, to her, are anyone who either a) actively worked with the Cardasisans/against the resistance, or b) chose to remain neutral because of the luxuries the Cardassians provided (as opposed to remaining neutral e.g. to save your family). Many resistance fighters throughout history have similar opinions.

I can't blame them or Nerys. It's incredibly frustrating to watch people enjoying life and remaining neutral, while you and your friends and family are fighting for their lives and for a better world.

At the same time, it has to be said that most people are not brave enough to resist. Most people, when push comes to shove, are "good Germans": people who see bad shit happening but have too much to lose or are too scared to get involved and fight back. And I can't blame them either. Self-preservation is perhaps the most fundamental instinct we have as humans.

Everyone likes to think they'd be part of the Bajoran Resistance, or Dumbledore's Army, or whatever the resistance group was called in the Hunger Games. But there's opportunities for resistance now in the current presidential administration of 2019, and those opportunities are a hell of a lot less violent than DS9. Yet the vast majority of people are not getting involved with those movements because it's incredibly, incredibly scary, and I can't blame folks for that at all.

This episode and Meru's actions also made me think of a poem I read recently.

"We Lived Happily During the War
BY ILYA KAMINSKY

And when they bombed other people’s houses, we

protested
but not enough, we opposed them but not

enough. I was
in my bed, around my bed America

was falling: invisible house by invisible house by invisible house.

I took a chair outside and watched the sun.

In the sixth month
of a disastrous reign in the house of money

in the street of money in the city of money in the country of money,
our great country of money, we (forgive us)

lived happily during the war."
Page 1 of 1
▲Top of Page | Menu | Copyright © 1994-2020 Jamahl Epsicokhan. All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication or distribution of any content is prohibited. This site is an independent publication and is not affiliated with or authorized by any entity or company referenced herein. See site policies.