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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 2:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

And what irony is that?

Please, do tell.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 1:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

@Booming
"I once searched for the word sodom in your posts and found them in two or three of your posts but I only read the sentences in which you used that homophobic slur, not the entire posts."

Which is why you completely missed Cody's point.

Had you read his entire posts, you would have realized that:

1. Cody was specifically talking about a non-consensual act.
2. Cody specifically mentioned the fact that the target of your "fantasy" (which was nothing more than a cheap provocation) is straight, which is why is calls it a non-consensual act.
3. Cody's use of the word "sodomy" was clearly referring to the fact that the act was non-consensual.

At no point did he use the word "sodomize" to describe a consensual act between two consenting adults.

So honestly, I don't see anything wrong with his view here.

Sure, people do all sort of strange things for their sexual pleasure. There's also the bondage crowd. Nothing wrong with that, if both sides are consenting. Yet if I said "I'd really like to tie Chakotay to a post and beat him with a whip" then everybody here would have agreed that this is a violent fantasy.

Nobody would say "Hey! You don't *know* that Chakotay doesn't like getting beaten up for his own sexual pleasure". No. That would just be silly.

So how a fantasy of fisting a straight man any different?

And I'll tell you another thing:

I, too, searched for the string "sodom" in Cody's past comments. And you know what I found? He used that word in exactly two posts, both of them in response to your own provocation. He never used the word elsewhere. And he never used the word, even once, to describe a consensual act between two gay men.

(In my opinion there *is* a slight homophobic vibe in Cody's comments, but it has nothing to do with his general argument which is 100% sound)
___________________________________________________________________________
"Of all the stupid arguments on this site, this one is the most toxic and unreadable. There is not even any content being fought about, it's just a bunch of people trying to slap each other."
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 12:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

"Well, no Nancy Drew. I only read your last three posts. I once searched for the word sodom in your posts and found them in two or three of your posts but I only read the sentences in which you used that homophobic slur, not the entire posts.

Are you still nazi-curious?
What do you think about Jews in US media?
a) too many
b) far too many
c) feels like a suburb of Jerusalem
d) all of the above times a million "

And what about you, Booming?

What do you think about (say) religious people.
a) too many
b) far too many
c) They are stupid
d) They are bigots
e) They are a terrible excuses for a human being
f) all of the above times a million

No, don't bother to answer.

I'm just showing you how easy it is to do this kind of cr*p.

Really, this kind of rhetoric says far more about you then it says about the person you're askng.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Of all the stupid arguments on this site, this one is the most toxic and unreadable. There is not even any content being fought about, it's just a bunch of people trying to slap each other."
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 12:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

@Everybody

The world isn't neatly divided to "racists" and "not racists", or "homophobic" and "not homophobic".

Yes, Cody's remark was a bit homophobic. Emphasis on "a bit". We all have our blind spots. And naturally, we are not aware of those blind spots. Just because somebody has a bit of prejudice against something, does not turn him into a Nazi or KKK supporter.

At any rate, that being said:

If the thing that bugs you most about this thread is Cody's slightly homophobic vibe, then you have a serious problem.

There's Cody's blind spot, which is mostly harmless and definitely due to ignorance.

And then there's this organized attack-by-provocation that we've seen here, where people resorted to rape jokes, twisting words and outright lies to demonize a fellow poster as some kind of nasty bigot.

So congratulations! Booming, Trent, Elliott... you've managed to prove that Cody is a fallible human being. A person who (oh, the horror!!!!) is not aware of their own blind spots, and (oh, the double horror!!!!) gets defensive when being attacked.

Way to go, team!

I just have one question for you three:

If Cody's own comment reveals him to be a terrible bigot, what does your own actions reveal about yourselves?

I'll end by repeating Peter's words:

"Of all the stupid arguments on this site, this one is the most toxic and unreadable. There is not even any content being fought about, it's just a bunch of people trying to slap each other."
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Wait... What? Knowledge of a giant koala?

I ain't gonna lie: you managed to grab my interest.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

And to everybody else:

I apologize for momentarily derailing this thread (I sure wish there was a private messaging option here at JammersReview).

Now let's go back to our regular program.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

You haven't pointed out anything, least of all anything "obvious".

You've made bold assertions which were meant to paint me in a ridiculous light, and completely failed to back those assertions up with any kind of evidence.

How did you get from the comment I've written here to "bitching about the radical left"?

What group, exactly, are you referring to, when you wrote "your side"?

And then there's this awful sarcastic remark:

"And of course MLK, Star Trek and the very concept of humanistic compassion itself are all on your side, all the time."

What an ugly and cynical misrepresentation of where I'm coming from. Jesus.

My suggestion to you:

Let it go. Nobody here is going to be impressed by your continued attempts of discrediting and trivializing the contents of another poster. In the long run, the only person you're going to discredit with such tactics is yourself.

Meanwhile, feel free to join the actual discussion, on this thread or elsewhere.

Just remember: Most of us are *not* interested in turning every discussion into a political battlefield. Even when talking about current events, there are many other perspectives to consider beyond the narrow "left vs right" thing that's consuming every other discussion on the internet.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 12:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Child's Play

^
One of the reasons I'll never view Picard as canon.

Itchy did not end his life like that. No. F***-ing. Way.

And this Voyager episode makes it even worse: Our heros snatched the kid from certain death in the last moment, just for *that* to happen? Screw Picard indeed.

(cue in all the guys who'll come to lecture that we gotta accept "reality" and it's not our decision... when we're talking about a fictional TV show)
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 12:03am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

@Sen-Sors

There's absolutely no connection between my comment and your rant.

Seems like the only person in this thread who is trying to turn this discussion into yet another political quagmire is you. Maybe not intentionally, but by interpreting my comment as some kind of one-note silly political thing, that's what you're doing.

And I'm not going to bite.

I also respectfully ask anybody else whose fingers itch to respond with a political-slanted rant to either me or Sen-Sors: Please don't. We've already covered the political angle three times (at least) which is probably two times too many.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 1:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S1: Bastille Day

Humane treating of prisoners? Sounds like a Trekkish value for me.

Not sure how this is related to "the crazy left wing people", many of which don't seem to be interested in being "humane" towards anyone right now.

And before somebody wants to accuse me of starting another political mud-fight:

My entire point here is that the humanist values of compassion are beyond politics. And that people's actions and views should be judged by what they really are, rather then the specific spot on the political map they occupy.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 12:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

This episode tells it like it is. It's brutal, but reality was brutal (and in many ways it still is).

As for "sweeping the issue under the carpet", I don't see how what's currently going on is any better. The main problem remains the same: The actual issues are niether dealt with or discussed intelligently.

The current mayhem isn't solving anything. It doesen't actually DEAL with any racial issue. It's just people going crazy, vandalizing, and - recently - even killing one another.

And to make things worse: Those who try to talk reasonably about the situation and what can be done to improve it, are precisely those who are attacked and silenced and condemned as "racist".

May this excellent DS9 epsiode serve as a reminder, for what the actual issues really are.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 12:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Charlie X

@Jason

I'm not talking about general trends.

I'm talking about the fact that a person who doesn't bother to get their own lives in order, has a cynical attitude towards life, and is blaming everybody but themselves for all their problems, is in no position to blame "society" for how their kids turn out.

That's all I'm saying.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 4:53am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Charlie X

Agreed on the effects of social media.

As for whether we blame society or the individual parent: It's not an either-or proposition.

Just because there are certain problems in society as a whole, doesn't mean that individual parents are off the hook. Sure, society will screw the kid's mind either way, but we can at least make sure that we aren't making the situation even worse with our own behavior.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 2:33am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: 11001001

@Mark
"However, given that the computer wasn't actually capable of that level of personality realism, one does wonder where her personality came from."

This is the computer that created a self-aware being (Dr. Moriarty) just because La Forge used an unfortunate phrasing in "Elementary, Dear Data".

So it certainly does seem capable of creating this level of personality realism. It's just that Riker and Picard weren't aware of that capability, at this point.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 2:21am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Charlie X

As for Charlie being "Generation Z":

Only people with a very short memory would say this.

Teenagers have always been that way. It's part of the natural growth process of human beings, and always was. The important question is whether the youngsters grow out of this phase or not.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 2:12am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Charlie X

Funny how it's always "society" that's at fault, eh?

Don't parents have a responsibility for their kids' upbringing and education? And the responsibility of setting a personal example, as well?

Nah... what a silly idea. It must be society's fault. Meanwhile, lets get drunk on a regular basis, develop a super-negative cynical view of the world, troll random communities on the internet, and attack every person who sees the world a bit differently than we do. What could possibly go wrong? ;-)
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 3:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

@Booming

You're actually enjoying this, don't you? All the chaos and mayhem. And most of all, all the attention it ends up giving little old you.

@Elliott

I most certainly ain't interested into getting into this debate *again*. Those who got it, already got it. Those who didn't, never will.

I will say, though, that your response only proved that I got your point perfectly.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 3:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

@Wolfstar
"As I said before, Germany has come to terms with its past very well, but there's a tendency among a minority of West Germans (typically in the Generation X age-range) to be in a state of constant paranoid vigilance towards anyone or anything they perceive as "Nazi" or associated with the (far-)right."

Unfortunately this kind of thing has become quite popular in the USA as well, in the past year.

At any rate, my point that this tendency has absolutely nothing to do with Booming's "service" stands. I also wonder what possible war-for-freedom s/he could have faught in Germany in the 1990's...
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 3:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

@Trent
"Appealing to 'property rights' and 'freedom of speech laws' and 'human rights' to denounce segments BLM who trash property and cancel dudes on twitter, is to miss the point entirely."

Sorry but no.

When basic human rights are being violated, then saying "basic human rights are being violated" is hardly missing the point.

Also, two wrongs do not make a right.

"75 percent of the world's superpower doesn't live paycheck to paycheck because 'tolerance', 'diversity' and 'human rights' are lacking. "

That may well be.

But I don't see how throwing human rights down the tube is going to make anybody's situation better.

I also doubt you're going to find many BLM supporters who'd take this stance either. They are protesting against racism, aren't they? That's the whole f***-ing point of their protests and riots and god-knows-what. It's like... the only issue that exists in the entire universe, according to their views.

So don't try to pretend that their riots about the economy or anything else. Because they aren't.

Besides, if you think human rights don't matter, what are we even talking about here? What's all this lofty talk of "economic equality and justice" when you are okay with people destroying the livelihood of other people? How would you have liked it, if somebody did that to *you*?
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 2:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

@Elliott
"Many claim that the indiscriminate destruction of property condemns the actions of such protesters. It suggests that protests aren't something anyone *needs* to do, that there isn't a Cardassian-Occupation-level systemic issue looming over a particular class of people. "

Did you seriously just compare an occupied planet with labor camps and mass genocide to the current racial situation in the USA?

Kira and company did what they did BECAUSE THEY HAD NO OTHER CHOICE.
The mixture of darkness and light was FORCED on them by the very extreme circumstances.

This is absolutely nothing like the current situation in the US, where minority members have many other ways to voice their concern and be heard. Where, indeed, there are millions of people who are so sympathetic to their cause that they are willing to give them a carte-blanche permit to do whatever crimes they want in the alleged name of racial justice.

So if the darkness and the light get muddled by these people's actions, that's due to their own personal choice. A choice that Kira and company never had the luxury to make.

In short, your comparison is completely ridiculous.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 11:55am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

@Wolfstar
"It feels like you're in a constant struggle with everyone and your worldview has been primed to be constantly on guard and seeing "fascists" and "Nazis" everywhere..."

Why on earth would a *German* veteran see fascists and Nazis everywhere?

Also, a friendly reminder: World War II ended 75 years ago. I don't think there are many Nazi-fighting veterans on the net these days.

@Peter

Welcome to the 2020 version of Jammer's community. A few months late, but the majority here has become just as crazy and hateful as the rest of the world has become.

Guess it was to bound to happen at some point.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 11:17am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

@DLPB
"Been warning you all as to what the Left has become for a long time. And now we're seeing the full level of crazy end where it always wanted to... violence and totalitarianism."

Heh.

Gotta tell you, when paranoid extreme right-wing propaganda starts to sound sane in the light of current events, you know that there's something seriously wrong with the situation.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 11:04am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

@Booming
"One might also mention that democracies are basically never toppled by left wing forces but almost always by right wing coups."

One might also mention that the left is traditionally associated with defending the absoluteness of basic human rights, advocating tolerance and diversity, and generally being in line with Trekkian values.

Yet here we are. ;-)

So forgive me if I don't find the statistic you just quoted to be re-assuring.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 10:41am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

@Wolfstar
"One thing that really works about the episode is how Picard clearly understands that the best way to defeat Satie is to give her enough rope to hang herself. He can see what's going on and the underlying dynamics at play, but it's not yet clear to everyone else (including her superiors), so to expose her, rather than going directly on the attack, he allows her to get carried away with her paranoid witch-hunt (at professional risk to himself) until she overreaches badly and the true nature of proceedings is made apparent to all."

It's amazing how often this gets the job done.

And of-course, any resemblance to a certain discussion that is currently going on at a certain Trek websites that starts with "J", is purely coincidental. ;-)
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 10:16am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Joe Menta
"So why quit now?"

Because he doesn't want to do it.

That's all the reason he needs. It's not like he owes us anything.

I'm also not quite sure why anybody would want Jammer to grudgingly review a show he doesn't even want to watch, out of some sense of obligation.

"This will at least let the readers still have their areas for each individual episode for their own comments."

You can ask him (there's a contact form) if he is willing to set up such pages for fan discussions. Maybe he'll agree.

Best of all: He doesn't need to either watch or review the show to do that.
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