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Nigel
Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 7:36am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

@Booming @Daniel @Drea

Thanks for the spirited back-and-forth. Really illuminating to see your various points. I also appreciate those of you who are standing up against name-calling. Booming, I know I’ve said before that I don’t have the energy/time to debate here, but reading through the ongoing chat is becoming a weekly guilty pleasure - reminds me of the halcyon days of the DS9 thread :)
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Nigel
Fri, Feb 14, 2020, 8:51am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

I really appreciated some of the comments above from Drea about Picard's d-move at the Romulan bar, from Daniel about Jurati as the expositionary device, from Booming and Dave in MN about some of the sillier/illogical aspects of the episode like the newly-invented assassin nuns, unneeded cursing, Jurati, and also the bar scene; and several others about the nuances in Frakes' direction. I love this diversity of opinions, it is really helpful for me to better appreciate the show. Thanks to you all!

It does feel like the showrunners are trying to hold a larger audience with "kewl" stuff like space Legolas decapitations and sweet dogfights and harbingers of ultimate doom. I see they're going for a broad arc instead of that TNG-style episodic setup, but I will admit that with thw world-building Trek has done since Nemesis, there are interesting, broader mysteries to uncover which draws me in for the long haul. It does feel like Jurati as the 'exposition device' is ham-fisted. Like many, I wish it could be handled more slickly. I know there's a lot of exposition outside of Jurati, but I see it as unraveling some of that world-building we're not yet privy to, and which outside of DS9 has been rare. Like most of you, I see little need for the various f-bombs - that's not me being puritanical or whatever, I just don't see how they truly enhanced our appreciation of the situation our characters were in. Data saying "oh shit" in Generations was great, by contrast.

I would suggest anyone that is liking this check out the Countdown comics where you see a bit more about Picard's experiences in resettling the Romulans. Interesting at the very least.

Hamy exposition, NuTrek elements, and illogic aside, I just need good Trek in my life and Picard is off to a good start for me despite the flaws. I hope that it improves and that we continue to have good Trek to talk about.
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Nigel
Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 1:13pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

Fire away Booming. As I said, you're most welcome to "answer." But don't put words in my mouth because I never implied anything is "beneath me." I have observed the vigor with which you are debating people (or proving your own intelligence and ownership of Trek by attacking their grammar, opinions, and argumentation capabilities - I even assumed you'd do me an ad hominem attack for my own grammar as I've written all of the above on a phone) and I just don't have the energy or patiencs for that. I wanted to pose a couple questions, express my opinion and I've done so. You're entitled to yours too, and I'm certainly not looking to be baited into a war of words with you or anyone else for whom "winning" on this message board matters so much.
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Nigel
Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 10:07am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

I must say I did not care for Discovery (and have only seen 2-3 eps) as i thought the mushroom drive was absurd and much, much more. So I’m speaking mostly with a TNG/DS9/ST:P lens.

I said “see it how I/you wish” because I just don’t think Gene’s vision is by definition ruined or betrayed. I wish to believe that one person vaping is portrayed on-screen like broken person, certainly not a paragon of cool, and her actions are not the norm - that society in this time accepts or embraces it. I think any statement about “any human does/doesn’t do X” is naive, even if we suspend disbelief to accept Gene’s broader vision. I sure don’t want to speak for dozens of billions of people. When I see that no smoking sentiment in previous shows I took it as explaining a permeating societal value. I don’t think that value is tarnished because some people still light up. In my view, the way I wish to see it (and yes it is speculation but it’s the way I wish to enjoy the material), it’s an outlier.

I’d dare say the same for Starfleet’s and the Federation’s fairly xenophobic decision about the Romulans. I just read the Countdown comics and Romulan deceit, trickery, and distrust caused many of them to think that the nova was a hoax fabricated by the Federation to put one over on them, and they intended to screw the Federation right back by taking over evacuation ships. Further, a colony of Romulans also intended to leave 500+ million native slaves on one colony planet to the nova’s mercy. I wish to believe that in reading the Captain’s logs about this incident, the Federation and Starfleet were already questioning the utility of their massive rescue effort - why rescue those who refuse - and had their confidence jolted even more by a massive shock close to home. I don’t think that tarnishes the hope for a better future. I think that under great duress bad decisions counter to the future’s more advanced values were made. I wish to see that Picard is standing up for making better decisions because we are witnessing a pivotal moment where a better future must be rescued from human beings who have begun to think wrongly. I don’t think that’s incongruous with Gene’s vision - simply shakes it up to show us that like Picard’s note at the end of the Drumhead, we must always be vigilant of threats to our better natures - and that’s just my opinion, man.

Now if you feel that TNG began ransacking Gene’s vision shortly after 1989, I can’t change your mind. I can only opine that Seasons 1-2 with his full input and control were the show’s weakest (in my opinion), and that I found the Drumhead to be profound and evocative.

I’ve spent far more time on this comment thread than I ever would have liked, I’m hoping not to comment again, and so you’re most welcome to have the last word here. But my enjoyment for the Trek universe boils down to 1 thing - Gene’s compelling vision is still there and I’d rather look for it with hope instead of lamenting it being washed away.
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Nigel
Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 4:29am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

Booming, buddy, you’ll see it how you wish to see it and I’ll see how I wish to see it. I wish you happiness as you continue to debate on this board.
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Nigel
Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 2:33am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: The End Is the Beginning

@DaveinMN - was that in response to my thank you to Jammer on the ep1 thread? Either way, thanks! Been on this site for nearly 10 years. Rare commenter though.

@all - In the ep2 thread I clumsily pasted an impassioned argument about the idea of this “not being trek anymore” from an iPhone note that had some work notes in it too. Gonna copy it here but promise this is the last time:

I’d like to pose a hypothetical to those who are disappointed about a perceived dystopian turn here (and in DS9). Why can’t this universe/Federation still contain that ideal image that Gene Roddenberry presented to us? Why must we feel that if we observe one bad apple or action, that this example speaks for the whole?

Norah Satie is a great example of a bigot in TNG, a series which few of us would say deviates from the more utopian Roddenberry vision. She was an exception, not the rule. This one admiral being a racist did not ruin the idea of a better humanity in the future. Why can that not be so in ST:P? One admiral saying a bad word to Picard behind closed doors in anger (and due to his humiliation of her organization on worldwide TV) does not establish a rule that all Federation people in 2399 are perpetually foul-mouthed, does it?

Do the hard (and sure, very non-utopian) decisions made in the heat of existence-threatening war with the Dominion change the broader ideals, values, or tenets of government of the Federation? Or was that a couple desperate military people convincing their higher ups that theirs was the only way? It didn’t “ruin Trek” for me that one of those desperate people was our own Sisko, particularly because it was clear that some of his decisions haunted him - because of his strong belief in those very ideals! They are certainly not deleted by his dark and desperate actions.

I didn’t appreciate the Mars engineers’ general bigotry. But I realized we’ve seen almost all Trek through a Starfleet lens - the very best and the most educated folk in the Federation, trained to meet and interact with other cultures graciously. What about planet-bound engineers or manual laborers? What if they don’t receive the kind of cultural training and guidance that Starfleet people do? Or more simply, couldn’t it be possible that in a more evolved broader society, we still have pockets of undesirable human nature?

I’m just asking some “what ifs” that challenge this idea that Trek is “dead” because it ran from the ideal of a more evolved society. I just don’t think that’s the case and I think we are presented with deviations as dramatic devices. With several Federation members not willing to resettle the nova-threatened Romulans, you could perhaps say my argument is weak. That’s fine. I’m not here to argue back and forth with people.

I just am imagining that much like “The News,” we are seeing bad people and situations as our main story because that is the deviation from the norm. You don’t see 500 daily acts of decency on the news, you see crime. Doesn’t mean the whole world is awash in crime. I think Gene’s vision can be alive and well in ST:P’s world, I don’t think Trek is ruined, and I very much want this to be an outstanding Trek show. The elements are there, there’s a mystery to unpack, and I hope they get even better as the series unfolds.
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Nigel
Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 2:07am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

Ah jeez such thoughtful points ruined by a cut n paste from phone notes from work! :) Sorry but if that post can be deleted or edited I’d be glad to repost!
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Nigel
Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 2:05am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

What’s JPM
next steps - Jan internal call and feb regional call


I agree with Jammer’s and commenters’ complaints about the silliness of some things in the episode. Didjt care for the cartoonish villain dialogue. Didn’t care for the f-bomb not as a matter of puritanism but because of the delivery. I felt it took away from rather than enhanced the Admiral’s takedown of Picard. But I still like and am intrigued by where the story is going.

I’d like to pose a hypothetical to those who are disappointed about a perceived dystopian turn here (and in DS9). Why can’t this universe/Federation still contain that ideal image that Gene Roddenberry presented to us? Why must we feel that if we observe one bad apple or action, that this example speaks for the whole?

Norah Satie is a great example of a bigot in TNG, a series which few of us would say deviates from the more utopian Roddenberry vision. She was an exception, not the rule. This one admiral being a racist did not ruin the idea of a better humanity in the future. Why can that not be so in ST:P? One admiral saying a bad word to Picard behind closed doors in anger (and due to his humiliation of her organization on worldwide TV) does not establish a rule that all Federation people in 2399 are perpetually foul-mouthed, does it?

Do the hard (and sure, very non-utopian) decisions made in the heat of existence-threatening war with the Dominion change the broader ideals, values, or tenets of government of the Federation? Or was that a couple desperate military people convincing their higher ups that theirs was the only way? It didn’t “ruin Trek” for me that one of those desperate people was our own Sisko, particularly because it was clear that some of his decisions haunted him - because of his strong belief in those very ideals! They are certainly not deleted by his dark and desperate actions.

I didn’t appreciate the Mars engineers’ general bigotry. But I realized we’ve seen almost all Trek through a Starfleet lens - the very best and the most educated folk in the Federation, trained to meet and interact with other cultures graciously. What about planet-bound engineers or manual laborers? What if they don’t receive the kind of cultural training and guidance that Starfleet people do? Or more simply, couldn’t it be possible that in a more evolved broader society, we still have pockets of undesirable human nature?

I’m just asking some “what ifs” that challenge this idea that Trek is “dead” because it ran from the ideal of a more evolved society. I just don’t think that’s the case and I think we are presented with deviations as dramatic devices. With several Federation members not willing to resettle the nova-threatened Romulans, you could perhaps say my argument is weak. That’s fine. I’m not here to argue back and forth with people.

I just am imagining that much like “The News,” we are seeing bad people and situations as our main story because that is the deviation from the norm. You don’t see 500 daily acts of decency on the news, you see crime. Doesn’t mean the whole world is awash in crime. I think Gene’s vision can be alive and well in ST:P’s world, I don’t think Trek is ruined, and I very much want this to be an outstanding Trek show. The elements are there, there’s a mystery to unpack, and I hope they get even better as the series unfolds.
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Nigel
Sat, Feb 8, 2020, 11:35pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

Jammer, thank you. I first came across your site while watching DS9 and your reviews have greatly enhanced my viewing of Trek of all kinds. So glad to see you’re reviewing Picard and that there’s such a vibrant community on these boards.

I’m in agreement with Jammer’s comments and see lots of promise here. Liked the setup and loved the interview scene. I know they’ve got more exposition and story setup to do but I’m intrigued. I’m looking forward to more!
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Nigel Tufnel
Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 4:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix

I really thought I was going to hate this episode seeing the setup but it won me over and I think it’s one of the most thought-provoking episodes of any Star Trek. Though the Tuvix character was awkward to see at first, I thought the actor did a great job combining two almost opposite personalities into one believable character.

FWIW, I think Janeway made the right decision here. Yes, she has to take a life, but to save two lives, who, as she points out have whole lifetimes of relationships and people waiting for them back home. I think if Tuvix was around for 2 years instead of 2 weeks it would have been a lot tougher call but as it is she did the right thing.

Loved Kate Mulgrew’s acting in this episode, she really showed the gut-wrenching decisions a captain must sometimes make, and did it effectively without a lot of words.

What holds the episode back from greatness is the lack of any sort of epilogue to see how the crew deals with the decision (other than Janeway because I think we know how she feels), they just kind of quickly wrap it up and reset for the next episode. Kes feels especially unresolved. As others have said, this would have been more effective as a two-part episode.
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Nigel Tufnel
Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 4:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: Sacred Ground

Any episode in any incarnation of Star Trek with a “spiritual journey”? Yeah, I’m out. I did watch it but it was just as much a waste of time as I knew it would be.
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Nigel Tufnel
Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 3:03pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S3: False Profits

Im rewatching Voyager now in 2019 and in general finding I enjoy it more now than I did back then. There are actually some pretty good episodes and Janeway is growing on me as captain.

But wow are there some clunker episodes and this was one of the worst. Seeing Ferengi show up out of nowhere I knew I would not like it but it was even worse than I feared. I usually don’t like “pre-industrial society” down on the planet episodes either (they seem to use the same lame village containing a few dozen people with a blacksmith and a few merchants for everything), so strike 2.

Then the dopey ending where Janeway once again blows a golden opportunity for the crew to go home for a ridiculous, contrived SF/PD reason. Why have they not mutinied on her yet? Especially over this one, if my captain botched the opportunity to go home over 2 stupid Ferengis on a tiny planet 70,000 light years away, I would be out for blood.

She had no problem killing off Tuvix to set things right (I agreed with her decision there), she should have planted a phaser blast right in the Ferengis temple (the people would just believe this was some sort of divine intervention) and jumped into the wormhole at the first opportunity, problem solved.
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Nigel Yong
Mon, May 7, 2018, 9:34pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: The Thaw

I actually enjoyed this episode immensely. I have struggled with fear all my life and as such I welcome the idea that fear is just an emotion to be conquered. And McKean is sublime as the very emotion that hurts on a daily basis.
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Nigel
Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 1:39am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Lonely Among Us

Yeah, I didn't mind it, the crew deliberating over the Captain's mental state was interesting (although they waited way too long to take the obvious point of action, the Captain asking literally everyone but him to take a medical exam should have been the clincher), and the idea of an alien taking over Picard to get back home was interesting, even though there' really no motivation for most of what the alien actually does.

The thing that most annoyed me was that ending. They went for a lighthearted moment at the end, but for some reason it had to involve the murder of a peace delegate. I mean, what? "Oh, someone got murdered, but I just feel tired. I'll let you handle it Number One." And there's Yar yucking it up to Riker. It's just a completely bizarre note to end on.
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Nigel
Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 6:27pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S2: Stigma

Phweeeeep Phweeeeeep Cumbybumby bloop
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Nigella Vestibule-Hogdkiss
Wed, Jul 4, 2012, 10:56am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S4: Legacy

I find the idea of this episode quite fascinating. The Federation are powerless to do anything to stop the horrors on a planet in their own space. Could be an interesting dilemma for a captain and his crew if they ever revisit it.
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