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Mike P
Tue, Aug 27, 2013, 5:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Equinox, Part I

@Peter York
You wrote the below in the "Nothing Human" comments

" Rats and mice are also sentient and thus equally deserving of moral consideration"

Then you posted this tidbit here:

" Janeway is a hypocrite in this case: the Voyager crew eats real (non-replicated) animals on a daily basis, from Neelix's kitchen, yet she argues that it is wrong to kill other sentient life forms."

As Elliott said in his reply to you, you certainly need to educate yourself on the meaning of "Sentience" and what crteria needs to be meant for a particular life form to be considered "sentient"

So I am going to repost my reply to you from the "Nothing Human" comments, to double the chance you might see it, thus expanding your knowledge base. No thanks are necessary. I see it as a duty to help the misguided.


While any living creature should be due certain moral considerations, your statement that rats and mice are sentient is an error that animal rights folks constantly make. Non human animals are obviously alive and conscious ie: they are aware of and react to their surroundings, but because they are still slaves to instinct, they are most definitely not sentient.

Sentience by definition, requires several factors. A sentient being must be self aware, must be able to perceive their own mortality and must also possess a sense of altruism, or in other words, that there are things bigger or beyond themselves that are worth sacrificing for. And they definitely must have free will, and are not controlled by ingrained instincts. Despite popular belief, Humans don't even possess a true survival instinct, let alone any others. Our altruistic nature suppressed our survival instinct long ago. Involuntary nervous system functions, ie: breathing, heart beat etc are not instincts.

As an example, the fact that any non human animal mother, in the face of starvation, would eat the last bit of food and let her offspring starve or even eat those offspring to stave off starvation, proves they are not sentient. A human mother would never conceive of such a thing, and that is because humans and humans alone on this planet are sentient. She would sacrifice herself for her children every time.

Now there are a small number of non human animals on earth that can be considered semi-sentient. Dolphins, chimps and even some octopus have some level of self awareness, ie: some experiments have shown they can recognize themselves in a mirror. Dolphins also have demonstrated some level of altruistic behavior ie: recognizing drowning humans need help and keeping them afloat. But because these animals have not evolved to the point where the are totally free of the controlling effect of instincts on their behavior, they can still not be considered fully sentient.
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Mike P
Sat, Aug 24, 2013, 9:38am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Thirty Days

@Paul York
" I think Paris' and Rega's actions were justified in this case. Earth Liberation Front (E.L.F.) would agree"

Well, at least your consistent. In the comments for Nothing Human your arguments would put animal rights on par with human rights, an agenda P.E.T.A would be proud of.

Now, in Thirty Days, you advocate for E.L.F.

Dude, the fact E.L.F. would agree is definitely not proof an action was justified. Its would actually define a particular action as a terrorist act.
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Mike P
Sat, Aug 24, 2013, 12:58am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Nothing Human

@Peter York
" Rats and mice are also sentient and thus equally deserving of moral consideration"

While any living creature should be due certain moral considerations, your statement that rats and mice are sentient is an error that animal rights folks constantly make. Non human animals are obviously alive and conscious ie: they are aware of and react to their surroundings, but because they are still slaves to instinct, they are most definitely not sentient.

Sentience by definition, requires several factors. A sentient being must be self aware, must be able to perceive their own mortality and must also possess a sense of altruism, or in other words, that there are things bigger or beyond themselves that are worth sacrificing for. And they definitely must have free will, and are not controlled by ingrained instincts. Despite popular belief, Humans don't even possess a true survival instinct, let alone any others. Our altruistic nature suppressed our survival instinct long ago. Involuntary nervous system functions, ie: breathing, heart beat etc are not instincts.

As an example, the fact that any non human animal mother, in the face of starvation, would eat the last bit of food and let her offspring starve or even eat those offspring to stave off starvation, proves they are not sentient. A human mother would never conceive of such a thing, and that is because humans and humans alone on this planet are sentient. She would sacrifice herself for her children every time.

Now there are a small number of non human animals on earth that can be considered semi-sentient. Dolphins, chimps and even some octopus have some level of self awareness, ie: some experiments have shown they can recognize themselves in a mirror. Dolphins also have demonstrated some level of altruistic behavior ie: recognizing drowning humans need help and keeping them afloat. But because these animals have not evolved to the point where the are totally free of the controlling effect of instincts on their behavior, they can still not be considered fully sentient.
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Mike P
Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 12:52am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Extreme Risk

" Am I the only one that found it odd that the Delta Flyer breaches on a bulkhead, when there are all those...windows? Even if they're transparent aluminum, they would still have to be the weak spots."

" Exactly, Jay. If micro-fractures don't occur in transparent aluminum, why don't they just make ship exteriors completely out of transparent aluminum?"

Actually Jay and LT, transparent aluminum is not that unrealistic or far off, and would resist fracturing. As most people know carbon under extreme pressure creates diamond. But not as many know aluminum oxide under extreme pressure creates sapphire, which is nearly as hard. There has been a lot of R&D into creating sapphire windows for high heat and high pressure applications.

So "transparent aluminum" windows in space craft is not far off, and while it can resist fracturing, I'm sure it wouldn't be suitable for the entire Air (space?) Frame where weight savings and even a degree of flexibility are needed.
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Mike P
Sat, Aug 17, 2013, 11:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Blood Fever

"And, yeah, I wouldn't have sex with a person I knew wanted me due to health problems. I am a bit saddened by some of these posts. I hope many of them are kidding."

Sadly, they most likely aren't kidding, these are the same guys who think if a "chic" passes out drunk in your bed, then she obviously wants it.

I've never thought twice about sleeping with any women who's judgment was impaired in any way, no matter how much she "asked for it" and any guy who would has to seriously reevaluate his moral compass.
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