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Mertov
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:33am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Booming, as you were writing your last post another comment popped up basically saying that people who defend PIC have their brains turned off because there are so many good TV shows out there. Both maaaan, both! And my dad beats your dad :))
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Mertov
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:45am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Skye
Look at the Mike W comment. There are faaaaar more comments from fans of STP insulting the people who are critical.

You missed the one diagnosing those who like it as having a disconnect due to their "curiously malleable mindsets" as a symptom of being "less grounded in their thinking and judgments" as the larger part of the "often cognitively dissonant culture/populace of America."
It's 'both sides' maaaaaaaaan :)))
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Mertov
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:37am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Booming, I had nightmares for a while when after I watched "Charlie X" as a youngster, about the woman with no face and Charlie's eyeroll.. Brrrr.... :)
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Mertov
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:34am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Enjoy it Booming, hahaha, and I'll enjoy reading your 'scathing' rebuttal whenever it comes up :))))))))
Petulant, it's fine, it was a joke. Far worse language has been used on these message boards.
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 5:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Dom,
Fair. I like those shows too. Check out Counterpart if you get the chance. Good sci-fi, but set on earth, parallel-universe tale.
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 5:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Nolan,
Are doing a study on that and writing a paper or something? If so, I'd love to read it once finished.

Dom,
I totally understand and I can identify with that since that is what I would have done too (now I understand why I didn't see you around much during S2). If you ever get the urge, I'd recommend you give S2 a shot, it was clearly better and tighter than S1, may even be better in binge format, I imagine.
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 4:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Alright Booming, we'll see. By the way, carried out my "The Quickening" promise to you, feel free to check it out whenever you find the time ;)
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 4:46pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S4: The Quickening

Explanation for what is to follow at the very end…

----------------------------------------

Interesting premise bogged down by the most idiotic execution possible.

Let’s begin with the stupid, numb-nut opening scene.
Four or of our main characters talking about the juvenile song by Quark and scolding the designated little kid of the show. He tempered with the station’s comp systems, WHOOP-DE-DOO!!! Like he’d never done that before. Odo says it’s a class-3 offense (whatever that means, this is juvenile comedy, not meant to go deep or explore statements). Quark does shit like this every episode just so we can have the weekly Quark-Odo childish spat going on for 96 episodes now. And that Odo threat about a class-whatever offense is supposed to scare Quark? Such a pointless line that nobody even cares. Move on. After four years, writers lack originality, or even adult intelligence to come up with a better Odo-Quark interaction.

Oh but wait, the “class-3 offense” is supposed to work with… wait for it… the Magistrate! Oooooooooo, now Quark is scared. Who the hell is the Magistrate, who the hell knows? It doesn’t matter, this is DS9 slapstick humor. Just know that Quark is supposed to get some verdict from the Magistrate and that scares the hell out of him, not that you will see any remnants of this process with the magistrate due to a stupid song will be heard at any moment in any future DS9 episode, because, DS9 writers. What is the value of Odo’s threat other than a stupid line injected into a totally dumb-ass scene with zero relation to the rest of the episode in tone and topic? Less than zero. Way to begin what is supposed to be a very serious episode with an oafish, low-IQ scene, denigrating four main characters further.
Oh, of course, let’s please not forget Kira grabbing Quark by the collar and verbally abusing him. Are we supposed to pretend it has any effect? Quark doesn’t. I wouldn’t either after I’ve seen it zillion times, but this is a TV show, so he will fake caring for the sake of stupid!

Then, comes in Worf, who ordered a glass prune juice from the replicator and gets Quark’s free-refill mug, and this is why he appears at all in this episode. Is this what DS9 has reduced Worf to now? A mighty Klingon getting his feelings hurt and joining the regular bi-weekly (being generous) dose let’s-shit-on-Quark parade led by Odo? Way to crap on a great TNG character, unimaginative, pathetic writers of DS9.

When Dax and Bashir arrive to the planet and walk through the village, some dude has his arm rigidly lifted at a 90-degree angle continuously points his finger right to their faces as he approaches them, passes them by and goes to sit down with a buddy. What the hell is that? Does Auberjenois not realize as the director how oafish that looks? Did he tell the dude to do that? It looks stoooopid.

Once they begin talking to the villagers, more gratuitous dialogue happens. Dax gets transportation to the hospital because she gave a hairclip to that one lady. The lady has access to transportation but not to a hairclip. Whatever.

There’s then a guy who comes to Trevean’s place and says that it’s the first time he slept in bed in his life. First time he had worn clean clothes and bathed in hot water. He looks, in human years, about mid-30s I suppose, so I am supposed to believe for around 35 years, his body NEVER felt hot water and NEVER put on clean clothes. Trevean has access to hot water and clean clothes that he continuously deprives the villagers of for three-plus decades? Yeah, OKAY.

Never mind that Trevean considerably looks older than everyone else and has yet to catch the blythe and ZERO explanation is provided by the writers because they were too busy coming up Worf’s prune-juice temper-tantrum or the fascinating world of Magistrates and verdicts that we never get to see!

200 years ago, these people were as advanced as humans (Trevean says so) and the Jem’hadar destroyed their world. So, for two centuries, they had a distress call out and nobody had been to find a cure, yet our Bashir will. Two centuries, and nobody helped them? Do writers even know how long two centuries are? 60 years, I may have bought it. 200 years? No thanks. But of course, it makes it that much more dramatic that “our” Starfleet hero will find something! By the way, why would the Jem’hadar not use that distress call as a chance to catch other aliens anyway? Not a word said about that, no explanation. Yes, I know, the writers are too busy.

It’s obvious that these people don’t want help and Bashir’s presence obviously causes some serious disturbance, and yet, nobody touches him or gets rough with him, because we are in the safe-zone of Berman trek. Trevean even tells the tale of many people having come for help before and how they exploited them, leaving with their clothes and food, etc. Yet, these people are not *that* hostile to Bashir – even after his efforts cause a dozen of them to die in writhing agony – other than a few bad staring contests (oh, and let’s not forget that guy with the goofy-ass finger-pointing in total silence for seconds as he approaches them, passes by, and walks away).

I could immediately tell that some people were going to believe Julian, and that he would fail at first and end up in a so-called more difficult position, but ultimate emerge as the hero who rises up to find some level of greatness from an impossible situation. Because, the writer is a long-time TNG writer where everything resets every episode, our heroes remain spanking clean and (almost) perfect. Also, how cliché that the baby of the pregnant woman gets saved (at least). And worry not, planet inhabitants, “the” Bashir will continue to keep looking for a cure for you, after having saved your children, the episode makes sure we know that with the closing scene.

In the meantime, nice commanding decision by Kira to leave Bashir and Dax for a whole week alone on the planet in a very unsafe environment. Jem’hadar may stop by and hurt them, the locals may get violent toward them. Ah, but no problem, Dax can continue to trade hair clips for transport, and other planet-like privileges.

How long was Bashir gone from the station? At least two months I believe. Not a very busy station, I suppose, this DS9 station is, not that we are IN THE MIDDLE of the Dominion war or anything, or not that DS9 plays a MAJOR role in that war or anything. Oh no, no worries at all!! Just like that, Bashir can take two months off. Also, let’s please not send Bashir any help for two months, leave him alone in a hostile environment, with limited equipment and no medical assistants. It’s not like the lives of a whole planet-population are in danger or anything (!!)

-----------------------------------------

Folks, that was an exercise in nit-picking, nothing more.
Don’t take it too seriously. Some of what you read may be true, but it’s all about nitpicking, nothing more. I agree with Jammer’s review 100%, this episode is strong. In fact, I am thankful to another member of the board for motivating me to watch this episode again (probably for the 5th or 6th time).

But if my intention was to shit all over it, with endless nitpicking, that was what that exercise would have looked look like.
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 4:35pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

James White:

@Mertov

I bet a good number of people on this forum will not watch DSC Season 3. And, if things continue to devolve, quality-wise, for PIC, then many on this forum will not tune in for Season 2.
-------------

James,

I bet not (will happily take you on for a beer, or a beverage of your choice :)) Many who loathed DSC in season 1 (and Picard, before even the series started) are still here every week. I'll bet you a beer they will still be around every week the rest of the season, every week in Season 2, every week in DSC season 3, and beyond.

What you're describing actually makes total sense, in that if one loathes a TV show with a passion they would stop watching it and move on to something else instead of putting aside that much time and effort per week on show they loathe. That is at least what I do, and I don't even have to loathe it with a passion. If a TV show is not to my liking or does not grab my attention enough, I move on to the next show, there are zillions of choices. This addiction to hate-watching and writing about it is something completely unfamiliar to me.
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 4:05pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

"Why should I continue to watch a grim and bloody show when I already have BSG and The Expanse???"

Oh but you will Booming ;).
If these boards are any indication of how Trekkies who loathe a Trek show with a passion continue to still put aside one hour (at least) of their time every week to watch it, and probably another hour or more, also every week, to put into writing (sometimes in essay form) their loathe for the show, for a total of two hours or more per week of their time, then yes, you will ;)
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 12:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Trent:
"Mertov said: "I really don't care what Todd or Abrams said or their opinions of one another. Neither are an authority.""
Nope, That's not what I said. If you're going to quote me, you should do it correctly. You just did what I said to Booming a bit earlier.

Booming:
Got it. And yes, like I said, I agree with most of your post including the comparison you just mentioned (not all, Drea is right about nobody starving or being homeless).
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 12:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

"If the portrayed Federation is a utopia then I don't want to know what a dystopia looks like for you."

Booming, did Drea say that? "Federation is utopia"? Or did she have a nuance to that statement that gets lost if you transfer it only as "Federation is utopia"?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of your post, but I am against the idea of taking a few words out of a larger sentence or picking a quote or two out of a whole and misrepresent what someone says for the sake of argument.
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 11:58am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Trent,
I really don't care what Todd or Abrams said or their opinions of one another. Neither has any bearing on my enjoyment of Picard nor related to its production, nor do they have any authority on the show.
My original remark about Voyager being safe and episodic stands.
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Mertov
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 7:52am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Tim C,

I agree with you completely. I would have zero interest now in a rehashing of the safe, episodic format of TNG or VOY (that had to live with the restrictions of network ratings, which, thankfully, the new shows do not have to). Would I watch it? Sure, at least once, because it's Star Trek. Like it? Probably not unless there is some incredible storytelling. Will I label its fans "supposed" Trekkies or "cynical" or any other name because they happen to like what I don't? Absolutely not.

Star Trek is a setting (that is not a definition either, like Tim C. says, anyone who claims to know what it is, is lying) and within this setting there are many adventures/crews to follow. One may like some and not like others (ex: Enterprise for me), but regardless, they are all parts of Star Trek.
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Mertov
Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 7:59pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Drea:
"The Romulan evacuation world (established as not particularly lawful) is in the same area of space as Freehold, policed by the same vigilante force. Part of the reason that they visit the Romulan colony is that it's en route to Freehold, and Picard's aware they may not come that way again. It's entirely plausible that Seven would join the Rangers, the only group devoted to protecting this territory, and the plot nearly screams for the Sirena to meet a Ranger. If we add that Seven certainly could've seen the planet's social media blow up with the famous Admiral Picard, a former Borg with politics sympathetic to hers, we even have a reason that she would go out specifically, and not some other Ranger."
(Freehold: Freecloud)

I agree Drea. Seven joining the Fenris Rangers, a group that tries to maintain peace in the more lawless parts of the galaxy albeit via vigilante-like behavior, is perfectly believable. Even when Voyager ended, Seven was still not even close to a human, still in the early stages of adapting to human behavior, and as she and Picard discussed, you never fully gain humanity (not to mention there are mountains of difference between her decades long life as a Borg and Picard's short capture by them). It is not a stretch to think that she would find her purpose in the Rangers instead of a peaceful dont-rock-the-boat type of life of monotony (or research behind a desk) on earth, although I must admit, that is how Voyager felt like in its late seasons, like the modern-day "safe space."
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Mertov
Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 7:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

One more note:
"Too bad they could not get Brian Brophy to play Maddox but there is probably a valid reason behind it. As far as I know, he is teaching at some university."

Now that I think more of it, John Ales, who played Maddox this episode, was actually pretty good. Brophy came across a bit wooden in "The Measure of a Man."
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Mertov
Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 7:05pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

What a great ride! Jerri Ryan is the queen. All her scenes were maximum fun and the ones with Picard had meaningful undertones. There is a substantial amount of backstory filling here and most of it is useful. Fenris Rangers and Seven connection works, Maddox's past activities are revealed for the most part, and Jurati's ending behavior fits considering what happened in an earlier episode (I had my doubt how she showed up from behind to kill the Romulan in Picard's chateau anyway, after talking with Commodore Oh (we don't know about what). I am not sure that Jurati is a mole in the sense that she is there to simply betray Picard and ruin his mission. She could have already done if she had wanted to. There must be more to it, probably killing Soji because of what she knows (some big secret).

Raffi is gaining so much more depth in the last two episodes and the Michelle Hurd is selling the character well (as I expected). Her talk with her son and his pregnant wife was gut-wrenching. Great B story within captivating A story involving a lot of nods to previous Trek (Icheb, Quark, Maddox). I was just thinking a week or two ago how I wish once in a while we got to see our protagonists visit these off-the-wall places where people dressed in quirky ways and behaved outlandishly (TOS and early TNG had a lot of this) and allowed the main characters to do so too for the sake of fitting in. My wish came true with Freecloud. Picard and Rios were superb in those scenes.

Too bad they could not get Brian Brophy to play Maddox but there is probably a valid reason behind it. As far as I know, he is teaching at some university.

Best episode to date (even slightly above the premiere and the last one) with good pacing. Narek and Soji's stories taking the sideline may have had something to do with it, as well as Frakes camera work.

Bring on the second half of the season!
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 9:20pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

"You know...
That 2009 reboot movie Trek sure fucked everything up."

-- No, I don't know, actually..
It sure didn't for me, Dave. Just another movie entry in the ongoing saga.
There are plenty for whom it didn't either. Trek goes on. Sorry it did for you and others.

"This entire series is dealing with all the logic gaps of the supernova and relocation efforts instead of something more cohesive and worthwhile."

By that reasoning, did Star Trek: First Contact "fuck everything up" for you too, since it trashed years of Borg - the mightiest villain race up to that point in Trek - built-up as a collective only to introduce a stooooooopid Borg Queen and hierarchy with which Voyager had to deal during its seven-year run? Or is that ok because it was Berman and co.?
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:38pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

To add to my last post:
"It's not a given that a Romulan Senator would know in that chaos the details of what took place in every Federation meeting, I doubt that information is shared anyway." ----- which is that much more reason why Picard should have contacted them, which he didn't. A major screw-up.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:32pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

No, I don't believe it's terribly misplaced at all. He could have easily contacted them once or twice to give an update (again, that alone is more than enough for them to be justifiably bitter), provided that he presented themselves as a savior from all signs. He was their contact point and had a personal relationship with them. The Romulan Senator just had his life turned upside down and Romulus suffered in gigantic proportions. It's perfectly feasible for him to associate Picard with Federation/Starfleet's actions (he should, in fact). It's not a given that a Romulan Senator would know in that chaos the details of what took place in every Federation meeting, I doubt that information is shared anyway.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:05pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

I am actually surprised that Zani was not bitter with him. I would have...
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

It's explained on screen that Picard did not even bother to contact the Romulans on Vashti once he left after he got the message that Mars was under attack. That fail alone is enough for those people to be bitter, let alone them associating the actions of the Federation that the Senator describes in his harangue with Picard. He was their contact point after all. I really don't need more detail than that, I don't need multiple flashback scenes explaining every gradual moment of increased bitterness by the Romulans.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

As for the books (Daniel, thanks for that detailed info about McCormack's book, sounds fascinating), yes Booming and Dave are correct, they are not canon. The writers are making a genuine effort to stay close to canon and from what I understand (I have not read any Disco or Picard novels, just the comics) the Disco and Picard novels are doing a good job of it.

As for the older series, I would definitely recommend the DS Relaunch series, it's almost like reading about an 8th season, 9th season, and so on. Very good non-canon story-telling. I am told post-Voyager novels are also great (Beyer helms them, I believe), but I have not read any. Still trying to get current on DS9 relaunch series.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

You also don't need to watch it because the Romulan Senator explains in this episode why Romulans are bitter, on screen. In fact, he goes into too much detail in my opinion, making his harangue a bit too long for my taste. He could have cut a couple of sentences from that explanation and still it would have made sense why they are upset. There have been enough clues already in other parts of the first three episodes about that. I pretty much knew what the reason already.
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Mertov
Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 12:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Absolute Candor

No Dave, you don't need to watch the whole movie for that specific information. You can find that information by going to Nero on Memory Alpha I am sure. He says it early in the film.
I liked ST 2009 a lot.
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