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Mertov
Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 11:51am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I stopped by my Trekkie friend's (the only one in town) place for the first time since Coronavirus chaos began, and since he has CBS All-Access we watched episodes 5 and 6 together. I am waiting for DSC Season 3 to renew mine so I hadn't watched any Lower Decks (as I said before, animation-style shows are not my thing).

That being said, we had a ton of fun watching episode 5, bantered and laughed together quite a bit. I didn't think episode 6 was quite as funny but the amount of Trek references gave us plenty to chat during the watch. I agree with Josh above when he says, "Watching Lower Decks I never get the sense that the writers don't have anything less than love and nostalgia for "legacy" Trek." Mike McMahan and his crew truly love and know Trek, it seems. I am not sure how much non-Trekkies will get those references but it's not only targeted to Trekkies but also at people who like animation-style shows, in the visual style of Rick and Morty (I presume, seen very little of it in passing) and Archer, but rather in the tenor of Trek spirit.

I won't watch any other episodes, it's for me, not because it's not good but not my visual taste for a TV show. I think watching with my buddy (he loves it), and that we could marvel at the little throwbacks and easter eggs together, made it a better experience than it would be if I watched it alone. I certainly didn't laugh through episode 6 more than once or twice.

Characters seem to be established (according to my friend they did a good job with that in the first couple of episodes, he says his favorite so far is #2). I may revisit it in the future when I have All-Access, but only with someone else who enjoys Star Trek. For now, I am rather looking forward to DSC 3 especially after seeing the trailer and the panel on Star Trek day.
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Mertov
Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 1:12am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

And the "aggressive" and "terrorize" accusations toward me is quite thick in hypocrisy coming from the person who copyrighted "the lowest common denominator" insult for people who watch Discovery, and slamming shows he never watches a minute of at the rate of dozens of posts per Jammer's posts.
Nobody is silencing you from posting your opinions. Each one of your posts is proof of that. Like I said, move on...
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Mertov
Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 1:02am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Oh please... Nice try with your usual "I'm the victim" discourse and your quintessential use of "we" with you supposedly representing all concerned citizens. Move on...
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Mertov
Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 9:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Agreed with Tomalak. He quotes Frank's post with which I also agree in its entirety. That is why I won't be subscribing to AllAccess for Lower Decks either as I said before. I'll check it out when I eventually sign up for Discovery season 3 but animated shows are usually not my thing. I never got into the Animated Star Trek series in the 70s either.
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Mertov
Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 8:06pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Dave:
"I'm sure CBS is happy that someone has stepped up to the plate as Lower Deck's white knight."
----
Nice Dave... I'm not even exactly sure what that means I understand it enough to know that you illustrated the point I'm trying to make fairly well.
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Mertov
Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 7:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

LOL... Relax Dave, I meant to put a ":))" at the end and should have added "since Discovery began" after "hundreds" and I forgot. Sorry about that. But my point remains, you made your feelings of "STD" and "Lower Drecks" clear.
Take it as one of the many jabs you and I have launched at each other in good nature in the past :))
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Mertov
Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 7:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Nolan:

"You can comment on how much you like the shows all day. Fine. If I then go an post a comment like "Well, I can see there are SOME out there who are naive and stupid enough to enjoy this tripe." Then heck yeah, I'm being an asshole and you'd be correct to give me what for. Nobody that I've seen is doing that."

"Except those aren't really directed at anyone, ESPECIALLY the "Lowest Common Denominator" - it just means appealing to the widest audience possible. That's not an insult directed AT specific people, it just means a piece of media is created to appeal to as many people as possible - the criticism of that being that by trying to appeal to too many people it's not trying to be its best self."

------------------

No Nolan, sorry. It's been explicitly stated that people who watch/like Discovery and/or Picard were too stupid to understand what they watch, it's been explicitly stated that they are nihilists, that the show appeals to the lowest common denominator (more than once over the last three years, including in this page), etc. They have also been lumped up under the label of "lowest common denominator" not just in this page but in the past too. And no, it's not on me to initiate debate on insults, it's on those people to show respect and not insult or debase others. Surprised you missed them, because there are quite a lot. I am not going to go back and look them up but they are not too long ago, just go back and look and Discovery and Picard's message boards. If I had the time, I'd look it up. But rest assured that I don't bring up just "innuendos." If I included innuendos or conjectures, the list would quadruple. None of this is my point anyway. My point was the double-standard of the people only crying foul when those snarks or insults go one way anyway.

----
"If I post a comment to you refuting some of the points you made such as: "Hmm, interesting perpective, but I don't see how Raffi and Seven's hook up is anything but a cheap tactic to entice viewers to watch the next season," I'm attempting to initiate a debate to hopefully gain perspective on how others might not see it the way I do."

Of course. No disagreements there and those types of criticism were not at the heart of my reply. There are a couple of posters whose opinions I don't agree with at all on the shows but we have had civil debates without trouble (Dom and Hank are the first two that come to my mind), but don't put it on me to initiate debate with expletives, insults, and snarks. Respect should not be earned only after a debate about insults. It should be the starting point.
Example: See CaptainMercer's post right above mine. I don't agree with everything he says (agree with most) and I'd be glad to have a debate on those points, but that's because disrespect and insults are not his starting point.
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Mertov
Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 5:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Yes Dave, I know, you made your feelings abundantly clear about "STD" or "Lower Drecks" via 7-8 posts in a matter of 10 days here and hundreds elsewhere.
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Mertov
Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 5:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Interesting that those who cry foul when what they deem as derogatory terms flow their way but remain in total silence (as in, crickets) when the insults flow in abundance the other way.

Here are some of the labels under which fans of Discovery, Picard, or people who look forward to Lower Decks have been lumped under (to steal wolfstar's expression) in recent times, including in this very page:

"Lowest Common Denominator"
"Nihilists"
"Masochists"
"Dumb"
"Juvenile"
"Stupid"

(not to mention "Fuck Kurtzman," "Fuck Star Trek writers and producers" have explicitly been stated before)

... to any of which the same people showed no reaction or provided zero criticism (well, couple in the list have been said by the very same people, so not a surprise I guess). It seems that the insults or derogatory designations only bother them when they flow in one direction. Otherwise, it's crickets...

TIm C's nancy characterization is uncalled for but what he is saying about people being determined to hate anything that comes out of this era of Star Trek is on target (as are most of Tim C's observations in general), and the fact that vitriol begins flowing passionately before even shows begin makes that obvious.
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Mertov
Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 4:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

The official trailer for 'Lower Decks' is out. It looks exciting for those who are fans of 'Rick and Morty' style of shows, and I hope people love it.
I'll wait until Disco's season 3 to get back on board myself, and then maybe give it a shot. Never been an avid watcher of animated shows.
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Mertov
Wed, May 27, 2020, 11:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

One terrific show in my opinion that nobody has mentioned is 'Counterpart.'
Has anyone seen it?
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Mertov
Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:36am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Eamon and Majerus,

If you go back above to where it all started, you’ll see that it did with Omicron’s direct attack containing derogatory terms to me and other posters (if there any others). I can only hope that you don’t expect people who get attacked in such manner to stay silent in response.
--------------

Eamon,

I’ve been teaching at university (-ies) for over a decade and the topic of what they watch, or in general their TV consumption, is a topic of interest for me. I hold stats, numbers, how many watch what, etc. purely out of my own interest (there is more on this under one of Discovery’s episodes, no.9 I believe, so I won’t repeat it here). Take it for what it is worth to you but here are my basic observations: hardly any watch cable TV or even have cable (this semester, I had a total 56 students, only 4 had cable at home! Second most extreme ratio I’ve seen ever, first being 1 student out of 32 in Fall 2018). They know about my Trekkie-ness, heck they cannot miss it, my computer desktop is Station DS9 that they see on the projector whenever I show things for my lectures (they laugh). Most enter my classes having never watched Star Trek which confirms your observation that young people in general don’t watch Star Trek (though it’s a small sample size). But several do grow an interest and begin watching it after hearing about it so much from me, lol. My consistent observation has been that the ones who begin with DS9 and TNG claim it’s boring (unfortunately their first seasons are bad). But a few who stuck with them ended up liking it, only a few though. The ones that try TOS for the first time almost always find it too “cheesy” or even “stupid” (to which I strongly object, but…) Some have come in having seen the last 3 Kelvin movies (or one or two of them) and they like them but need a “push” to start watching the TV shows. The most success I had in converting to Trekkies (and I am not talking about many here, maybe 2, 3, or 4 out 10 who tried Trek TV in a given semester) was with those who began with the latest movies or Discovery. (My own daughter of 24 only became a fan after watching the 2009 movie and I made her watch DS9 afterward while I was doing a rewatch. Now, she is a Trekkie in general but she still finds TOS corny for example and won’t watch unless I happen to be watching one when she is with me. She likes TNG). I don’t have any Picard numbers to give because it’s new. Now, remember these are students who came into the semester not having seen any Trek on TV except maybe a minute in passing back when they were little with their parents. Overall, my experience from several years of this show me that more of them became Trekkies, so to speak, like the recent Treks. I wouldn’t label them as having a low quality as a standard either, it’s just a different generation. I am from the 50 and above generation of Trekkies having watched every series when they originally aired except TOS as reruns in early 70s and I know others my age who enjoy the current versions too. I liked each with varying degrees (except Enterprise) but today, I prefer myself the less episodic and more serialized version, though I’d watch any Trek series that comes up and still form an opinion based on its own merit. For example, I am not much of a fan of prequels in general and like I said, prefer the more serialized version now but if the new Pike series (thus a prequel) is episodic like I read somewhere, I’ll still give it a try and judge it accordingly.
---------------

Omicron:

“Also Check Mertov's posting history. This isn't the first time he has done this.”
This is a good idea except you conveniently forgot to include yourself for the history check, which would show that my points about your self-contradicting patterns are very much valid.

“Deliberate personal attacks (like what happened here recently) are a different problem.
Ha! Agreed! Like referring to posters using denigrating labels. Had you refrained from doing that, I would have never responded. But if you do, don't expect me to remain quiet from this point forward either.

And as for you last response to Majerus above,
"Kinda ironic, given the rest of your post."

Actually no, the rest of his post is very valid and consistent with what he said to me. So is what you said about not reading your posts if you don't like them, something you could abide by yourself if you wish to, but seemingly you don't practice what you preach to others here either.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 11:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron, nice attempt at meandering around the valid points I brought up and avoid facing up to your own double standards by playing the victim as usual.
The guy who posts dozens of vitriol posts himself about a show he doesn't even watch, practices the very behavior for which he castigates others, and when called out on all those, claims to be vtirol-victim himself and cries foul.
You are consistently outperforming yourself.

"Of-course, none of this is really about me personally."

I hate to bring your neatly arranged narrative down, but yes, it is...
I know you'd like to imagine that you are the spokesperson for a large group of people, create divisions, make things about "us" vs "them," etc... but alas, you are not that important, it's merely about you.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 5:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

ouztol:

Thanks, but you forgot to also include those who you venture to inform you that you are too stupid to understand what you are watching.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 5:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron:
-------------------------------------------

@Mertov
"It is bad enough when others tell a person what to think; some have taken it upon themselves to declare what others of us actually are thinking"

Eh, no.
----------------------------------------

"Eh, no" is correct... since that would not be me you quoted. Re-read and try again.

But I couldn't help but notice you outdid yourself again (when it rains it pours).

---------"If a guy came to the forums of a show that I like (say the Orville, or DS9) and he started posting scathing reviews, I would have jumped on the opportunity to discuss the show I'm a fan of."--------

Whaaat?

Would you like me to quote you on what you said to someone who wrote scathing things on The Orville board? Something like "don't you have better things to do in life than come to a discussion page of a show you dislike"??? It must have slipped your mind while you were trying to render your public service to poor souls. And how ironic that out of all people you would say that... At least the person you said that to *was* actually watching the show and not trashing it without having seen a second of it.

Absurd claims of saviorship, misquoting people, claiming expertise on a show (or two) you have not watched over people who have, stating that you'd do things when you've blatantly done the opposite (again, I'll be happy to find your quote).

Delusions of grandeur, and now straight-forward lying?? You are on a roll aren't you?
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 10:19am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

James:
-------------
"One problem is Kurtzman, who:
(a) Believes that good old Trek-style sci fi has no place in the 21st century."

I actually agree with him there. I don't want to watch new TNG or TOS episodes. Fortunately it's not a choice between that and Abrams/Kurtzman style.
-------------

Yes James, I feel the same way. No rehashing of what we have seen for decades. There are hundreds of those in trek archives and I love most of them and revisit them. I prefer the arcs now (and I feel certain the younger audience does too, I am around college students and most find old Star Trek corny and boring, I know because I convince them to try and only a few stuck with it so far, that's a whole other discussion).

Discovery, for example, had some episodes where it had a good mix of bottle plot combined with elements of the longer arc, those would be my favorite type (DS9 had plenty of those, excellent ones, in seasons 4-7). PIC solely stuck to the longer arc, it seems.
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Mertov
Sun, May 24, 2020, 10:09am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron:
-----------------But there other people who are sticking around for the wrong reasons. People who think they are obliged as Trek fans to accept every crazy thing that TPTB throws at them. People who are falling victims to marketing tactics that keep them at a perpetual state of "paying and complaining". People who literally complain that watching STP has diminished their enjoyment of TNG, and yet continue to watch the next episode without stopping to question what they are doing.

I'm not okay with people being used in this manner, which is why I'm campaigning for raising the fandom awareness of these things.

Do you have a problem with that?
---------------------------------

I have zero problem with you sounding absurd, because this one takes the cake, (well not quite, you outdid yourself again, see below).

Let’s see…

There are people – "victims," according to you – who are brainwashed into “perpetual state of ‘paying and complaining’” and watching a show because “someone” or “TPTB” is bullying them into watching it, despite having the complete freedom to flip the channel, and themselves knowing that they do. And the grand mensch Omicron is here to render a public service to these fallen "victims" and save them.

Entertaining to say the least… I will not tell you to get over yourself on this one, you are obviously way past that point.

Still not as absurd as arguing that you can judge a show and a shit on it dozens of posts per episode, despite not having seen a single second of it, because you read a review (never mind the flimsiness of that reasoning since you you piled on even before the review you refer to was even posted). And you’re talking to me about intelligence while you make this argument. Splendid.

And here comes the kicker:

------When a respected reviewer basically states "We've been treated to 10 hours of mostly nonsense which should really be condensed into two. None of it really mattered, and it was all a huge McGuffin aimed at getting us to the final scene of Picard saying goodbye to Data" and then proceeds to give the episode 3 stars and the entire show a positive summation - that's very strange indeed.-----

What? You are now giving a quote from Jammer to make your argument that it’s ok for you to claim expertise on a show you have not watched, when you just criticized few posts earlier yourself his “massive change in attitude” in reviewing PIC and claimed that it was “confusing as ****.”???

Marvelous…
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Mertov
Fri, May 22, 2020, 9:42am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron,

Riiiiight, because you unloading your hatred on a show that you don't watch at the rate of dozens of posts per episode and cheer and campaign for others to not accept it as part of the universe, etc.. is perfectly innocent (!)
Or attack someone (or few) and then play victim when they respond to you is perfectly honest (!).
The irony is how you expect to slam shows and directly bash shows and people, and yet get your feelings hurt when they push back..

And speaking of ironies, here is a good one that I did not even notice before.

----- Omicron:

I don't get it either.

Jammer never pulled his punches when it came to criticizing Old Trek. His take was always:

(a) thoughtful and consistent
(b) balanced
(c) taking the greater picture into account.

Yet now, after a full season of complaining that very little of PIC S1 made any kind of sense, he basically does a 180 and says that none of it matters just because a few awesome emotional moments between Picard and Data.

That's some massive change in attitude, I gotta say.

So you're definitely right. This is confusing as ****.
-------------------

What?
You're confused by Jammer's take on an episode that you did not even watch?
Or his "massive change in attitude" on a show that you don't watch?
How would you even be able to judge, let alone be confused "as ****" about a review written by a respected reviewer when you have not watched what he is reviewing?
Elementary Irony 101
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Mertov
Fri, May 22, 2020, 9:25am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Booming,
Agreed. And I don't. I mentioned the headlines I read on social media and those people social media messages that I come across. I am not about to support their clickbaiting, let alone spend time on a show that I hate, whether watching it, talking about it, or getting my rocks off listening to some vile youtuber because it appeals to my base instinct of deeply seeded hatred for a show or individual. Hatred is not something I thrive on.
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Mertov
Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Yanks,

I thought about that too (what you say at the end of your post about Data). It's probably because of how abrupt that ending was for Data, and cruel, that what PIC did was needed and just. Data being dead like this feels better than how it was pre-PIC, post-Nemesis in my opinion.
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Mertov
Thu, May 21, 2020, 6:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron:
------
But not because we're actively looking for such things. Seriously, how dense do you need to be, in order to believe that Star Trek fans *want* to hate Star Trek?

We don't *want* to hate Kurtzman-Trek. It's just that the material (at least so far) was so terrible that it didn't give us any other choice.
-----

Of course there are such haters of Kurtzman that, yes, they ABSOLUTELY want to use any Star Trek series that comes out with his name tied to it to spew their deeply seeded hatred out. There is a professional British reviewer out there who decided PIC was going to suck and announced so before it aired a single minute. Do you think that person will review objectively from that point on? No. He will review the show in the way that justifies his reasoning. He will bash it regardless, his mind is made up, because he wants to show that he was right. Yes, that person *absolutely* wants to hate it, and wants others to do so so he can claim he was right.

There are people who were already bashing DSC or PIC before a single minute aired, you can go see it for yourself. Yes, they absolutely want to hate it, want the shows to fail, so they can claim to be right. This is why each time a show gets announced or renewed, their "cancel" or "dead before take off" hopes get crushed and you see that vile group of youtubers I referred to in the previous post celebrating secretly and popping out those clips with headlines to sucker those haters in for clicks, predicting all gloom and doom for shows and renewals (what are they now, zero for 5? zero for 6?)

Eventually they'll get one right (since shows don't go on forever) and they'll claim triumph.

Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be for someone who expressed at every turn their pre-disposed deep loathing of Kurtzman and actually have to admit that they like one of the recent Star Trek shows? You think those people (not including you, you say don't watch them) are capable of watching episodes and objectively reviewing the show?

So yes, they are absolutely ACTIVELY looking to hate.
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Mertov
Thu, May 21, 2020, 6:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Omicron:
-----------
I was talking about how you happily joined the herd of mockers in a mob attack against those whose only "sin" is having a different opinion.

Seriously. The new Pike series was just announced and what's the first thing that nearly everybody is doing? Mock the "haterz". As if people cannot possibly have perfectly legitimate reasons for disliking the direction that Trek is taking right now. As if three complete seasons is not enough information to base an informed opinion on.
-------------

Get over yourself and grow up.
Since I am one of those you refer to, here is my answer:

Get over yourself..

You are here bashing a show (two actually) at the rate of dozens of posts per episode that you, by your own admission, don't even watch, and whose fans you labeled as "lowest common denominators.: ANd now you are going to cry river and play victim?

Grow up..

And as for "being of different opinion."

It has nothing to do with that. It has to with opportunistic nincompoops posing as youtubers (not referring to the one mentioned above, I don't know that broadcaster) making BS headlines like "Kurtzman is getting fired" for the umpteenth time, or "DSC/PIC is cancelled" for the umpteenth time, or something along the lines of "PIC showrunners revealing (!!) that they hate Picard and wanted to humiliate him," just so they can get their clicks up for their ratings, sucking dumbshits who drool so hard over their deep loathing of DSC or PIC that they are willing to butter their bread and give them the clicks they want without using any IQ they ay have in their brain.

Yeah, I'll gladly mock anyone in these two groups aboce, but you can wipe your victim tears since you belong to neither one of these groups because you said that you don't listen to any of those youtubers.
Calm down, take a deep breath..
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Mertov
Sat, May 16, 2020, 12:30am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds announcement is probably most celebrated by those few youtube conspiracists. It's yet one more season of Trek during which they can sucker haters and milk their pre-programmed deep loathing for more clicks and revenue.
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Mertov
Fri, May 15, 2020, 12:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Excellent news !! It was expected, but nice to get confirmation.

https://deadline.com/2020/05/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-tv-series-spock-captain-pike-ethan-peck-anson-mount-rebecca-romijn-akiva-goldsman-cbs-all-access-1202935510/
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Mertov
Fri, Apr 3, 2020, 1:22am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

PM thanks for this!!!
Seen all the Short Treks and loved reading your brief summary and reviews for reminder!
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