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Mertov
Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 10:04am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Booming, good points.
Let's not even mention the most revered episode in Star Trek, featuring the ridiculous portal resembling a giant-shiny picture frame with silver-magenta-ish border, called Guardian of Forever (!) through which you can just jump to travel through time. Suuure..
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Mertov
Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 2:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Daya,
Your conspiracy theory takes the cake, I laughed reading all the way through. Awesome stuff, thanks for making my Monday better :))))))))
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Mertov
Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 11:51am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Alan, there is essentially almost 3 minutes of two successive visions (2nd within the first). It starts when the reverse scene occurs and ends when Michael snaps out of it and says "it won't work."

The cue for me was Saru saying "That's not possible," Pike saying "arm photon torpedoes," and the yeoman replying they are ready before the reverse scene. At the end of the almost-3-minute vision sequence those three repeat the same lines again, indicating that we are back in the current events. Spock saying, with a curious tone, "you sound rather certain of that" confirms it.

The point was to show why Michael says it is pointless. Yeah, it's not the greatest editing for a minor point by any means but as Lynos says (and others above), it did have a purpose.
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Mertov
Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 9:42am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Omicron, fair enough. Let's see if you stick to it this time. "Given my past experience with you," you've made similar promises before only to ignore them later.

Galadriel,
"The chal­lenge is to under­stand the plot, be­cause it moves so fast. Con­trari­ly, any re­flec­tion on what hap­pen­ed and why ends in another enigma." I couldn't agree more. As to your earlier questions, there were no torpedoes fired except in Burnham's first vision (the hard-to-catch one). Michael says that there is no point in firing them as others have pointed out so Pike does not give the actual order. But yeah, again as others pointed out, it's a lot of faith put on Michael there (and as you say, there is really no danger to trying it anyway).

Thomas, interesting question right above (I am assuming it is a question although there is no question mark at the end). A whole separate message board is needed for that one :)
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Mertov
Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 8:28am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Omicron, it seems you need to find a new victim since you posted three times prior to the last one and all three were all attacks - including a straight-forward x-rated insult - at another poster.

By the way, I agree with you, there is no doubt that you are here to (or could) possibly entertain me.
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Mertov
Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 7:57am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Oh please Omicron.. Nobody is here to entertain you.

Who is "us" anyway? Speak for yourself.

What would it matter anyway? By your own admission, you don't watch the show (although that hasn't stopped you from crapping on it in the past via accurate or inaccurate hearsay).
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Mertov
Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 7:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Here is a mental gymnastic for you..

"I have a question...if this show didn’t have Kurtzman attached to it, would anyone care to hate-watch and shit on week after week it as intensely they can? I see people doing mental gymnastics to nit-pick every second possible to shit on the writers and I just can’t imagine they would have ever watched it past season one if it weren’t for the strength of the Kurtzman brand alone pulling in hate watchers.

Etc, etc..."
------------

Now, as for the answer..

I am not sure which one is worse.

(1) That someone willingly chooses to spend 45 to 55 minutes to watch a show they loathe with a passion + the time to read all the comments about that show they loathe + take time discharge their deep loathing for it week after week, probably adding to a few hours per week charging their loath-o-meter and unload it every week,

or,

(2) That someone does mental gymnastics to excuse the sloppy writing because it has a Star Trek brand.

They both sound pathetic to me, but you be the judge (oh wait.... unless you belong to one of the two above.)

Or,

there is also a third one, different that the two above:

(3) you can simply watch a TV show, like the show/episode in question (which is not the same as the described individual at no.2 above) or dislike it (which is not the same as the described individual at no.1 above) and discuss that in this great message board without seeing it as a space to get antaognistic with anyone offering constructive criticism or as a space to unload your passionate loathing of the show and its showrunner like.a broken record to the point where people see your name and know exactly what to expect.

Luckily, majority of participants belong to no.3
Except that no.1 or no.2 are the perennial noise-makers.
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Mertov
Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 12:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Wonderful review Jammer. Thanks for the insight and sanity :)
Each one of your reviews is a reminder of the main reason - insightful & sane takes on each episode - why I come to this site.
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Mertov
Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 11:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Hard to judge this episode without next week's, I don't envy Jammer :)

As for me, I loved the first half, especially the problem-solving moments in the ship with characters consulting each other including the technobabble. This is easily the best use of Jett Reno since the first episode that she appeared. Enterprise looked magnificent and Number One rocks. Po's introduction and purpose fit well into the narrative and she interacts well with Tilly, plus she owned Geogiou in that one ice-cream scene :) Discovery and Enterprise together on my 50-inch screen is a sight to behold.

The second half loses a bit of steam due to overuse of tear-jerk appeal. For example, the Michael-Ash scene is completely unnecessary, if I watch the episode a second time (who am I kidding, I watch every episode of Star Trek at least twice), I am fast-forwarding through - no, skipping -that crap for sure. Georgiou-Michael talk as they were walking was also mediocre. On the other hand, the collage of the crew sending messages to their loved ones was great. Ironically, those are exactly the people on whom the third season should be built, along with Saru, Michael and the new captain (I hope we get one). Michael's goodbye to his parents was also well played (if you can quickly erase the question of how they got there so quick, LOL). Pike's final goodbye was excellent.

Nice set-up-for-a-finale episode as far as set-up-for-a-finale episodes go. Awesome visuals as usual. Can the finale come as soon as possible please?
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Mertov
Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 9:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

Yeah Dave, and he might be getting on the crew's nerves too by now, let alone his husband!!
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Mertov
Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 9:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

Thoroughly entertaining outing !

The Dolly speech is the pinnacle of Season 2. Hahahaha :))

Last 10 minutes the coherence of the plot falls apart a bit, but still, one of the best hours of The Orville.

And Bortus, divorce Klyden! Now!
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Mertov
Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 10:38am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

SC,

You are exactly right, I wouldn't believe a word either (and they are mostly false or based on innuendo). I'll disagree with you on one detail though, they secretly do want DSC to continue, because they need the clicks by producing more of their nonsense that is solely designed to appeal to the hatred that some fans harbor for Kurtzman or DSC (not all of those swallow their codswallop either, but enough do). I am fairly certain they are already drooling over the prospect of shooting down Picard and S31 series too so they can keep their click counts up.


Jammer,

Another great review. You touched on the solid parts of the episode while underlining the overall nonsense tendencies of the show (making things up just because "plot needs one," repeated patterns in each episode, etc). The last few episodes have been increasingly plot-oriented (more than the earlier episodes) which has led to the quality of the storytelling to somewhat fizzle out since "Project Daedalus." If I had to rank the top 4 episodes of this season, they would all come from the earlier ones ("If Memory Serves," "New Eden," etc.) and ones that went 50 minutes or longer to flesh out the events.

Let's see what the two-part finale (since that is how the writing room refers to them) brings.
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Mertov
Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 8:43am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

Daya,
No problem at all.
By the way, did you/anyone see the next episode's teaser? I have a feeling that in terms of TOS lovers wanting it to remain untouched and resenting DSC for not doing so... there are only three days left before they blow a gasket :)
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Mertov
Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 12:24am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

Not sure if it's fair to single Alan out and I don't know who this "us" is that you are referring to Daya. I am a fan of both TOS and DSC and it does not bother me one bit that backstories of TOS events and characters are explored in a prequel, in fact, I think they should (explained in detail in my last post).

And Alan, try to tone it down. The antagonistic rhetoric undercuts (some of) your otherwise well-rounded arguments.
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Mertov
Sun, Apr 7, 2019, 12:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

Lynos,

Just to be clear - because I don't disagree with much of what you are saying -, I don't hate Enterprise at all. I watched it weekly when it aired for the first time (then again, I did so with every series).

I am only talking in relative terms. Among Star Trek series, it's my least favorite, but guess what? I watch a lot of TV shows and if I happen to run into a rerun of an Enterprise episode while I am flipping channels, I will gladly stay on it and watch Enterprise. Nevertheless, I like it the least out of Trek series, so to speak.

It's all a matter of personal taste.

I also don't have a pre-disposed hatred for Kurtzman's writing like Trent seems to have (I did not like some of Kurtzman's previous stuff, but there are also some that I liked), or pre-disposed dislike of Marvel series like some have expressed before (I like some of those movies while I dislike others), or pre-disposed notion that today's viewers represent a lower-IQ echelle compared to the audience of 80s and 90s, or a pre-disposed apprehension toward the idea of meddling with iconic characters and moments in Star Trek (like you seem to do) if it's done well, and I believe this season of DSC has done very well by Pike. You obviously do not agree, and that's fine. Like I said, you make a lot of good points and yes, sometimes it does feel like fan fiction.

For third season, I would rather see all the extra casting outside of Discovery's crew ditched and the ship have its own adventures, and once in a while engage in fleeting fan-service moments, but from what the first two seasons show, I am not confident that it will happen. We can't turn back time of course, if we could, I would personally prefer a past where Star trek did not venture into prequels in its TV series and kept moving forward (fine if they want to delve into the past in movies). I agree with Mosley above, it's just too limiting.
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Mertov
Sun, Apr 7, 2019, 9:17am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

"...... (and three times in the Kelvin timeline)...."
I meant to write "twice," sorry.
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Mertov
Sun, Apr 7, 2019, 9:13am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

"Enterprise (the show) did invent alien species and conflicts that were never heard of in Kirk's and Picard's time, but it never dared touch truly iconic moments and characters."

Is this a good thing???

It was one of the reasons why it was the dullest, the most unimaginative Trek series ever. Here you have a first-time prequel series (which would not have been my first choice, let me be clear, I prefer moving forward), which represents a great opportunity to expand on some of the events that took place in the previous series and fill the background of some of the known characters - it can easily be done every now and then while still developing its own adventures - and instead, Enterprise does an hourly borefest of gigantic proportions for the most part because it would rather do a bunch of otiose, hourly night-time stories. It woke up in the late seasons, but, too little too late.

If I am watching a prequel, the last thing I want is a rehash of previous shows, done in the same format, and on top of that, "not dare to touch other shows" mentality. If it's a prequel, it needs to act like one. Develop the background of some of the things, events, or characters we watched in previous shows. In this sense, DSC is doing exactly what Enterprise should have done but did not do.

Now, is DSC overdoing it? Yes, I can certainly agree to that (MadmanMuc's fourth bullet point in one of his earlier post is right on target - as are the other three by the way). They should have done it here and there, instead of integrating it into a whole season arc. Lethe was a great example of background character growth for Sarek for example. I am loving some of Spock's background but it would have been nicer to have him in less of the season (thus my wish in the first few weeks, contrary to most people including Jammer, that Spock only appear late in the season).

But back to my larger point.. I am glad Discovery is revisiting known characters and events and not remaining in the 'Enterprise-safe-zone.' Take Pike, for example. We had a captain who appeared in an originally unaired (only 20+ years later) pilot episode and a total of 2,5 episodes out of 700+ episodes (and three times in the Kelvin timeline), and DSC is doing what it should do, which is to take this character, fill his unknown background, and enrich his profile. And honestly, his accident was never thought much about until the 2009 movie news came out that his character was going to be on it (heck much of Star Trek's audience did not even know who Pike was).

Again, I would prefer moving forward, but free reign on background-character development is *the* one advantage you have as a prequel, so it should be used.
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Mertov
Fri, Apr 5, 2019, 7:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

Michael,
If after this episode you still don't know who Capt. Pike is or what he stands for... I don't know what to tell ya'.
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Mertov
Fri, Apr 5, 2019, 9:48am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

Another cogent episode penned by Erika Lippoldt and Bo Yeon Kim where the narrative moves at a reasonable pace and head-scratchers are minimized (not eliminated), and that is despite the source material that they had to deal with when given the task of writing this episode - a return to the Klingons, dealing with Control.This is three out of three for this duo, which gives me hope for the Section 31 show because I am not half as excited about it as I am about the 3rd season of DSC or the Picard show. Aarniokoski, who received criticized (rightfully so) in a previous episode for the panning camera, does a much better job of directing in this one.

The Klingon plot story is very powerful, largely thanks to Anson Mount. Him seeing his future, his immediate reaction to it, and making the subsequent decision about the time crystal (+ the special effects and make-up) all create a powerful sequence and sold well by Mount for such an iconic character in Trek. I had no idea it was coming so it had the desired impact for me. The Klingon story also benefits from having L'Rhell in a more contemplating role rather than the usual angry Klingon chancellor.

I also did not see it coming when Gant turned out to be Control, so that worked for me too, but that story was less riveting than Pike's on Boreth. It gets a bit tiresome also to see Control being far superior to anyone when it comes to killing methods and prowess and yet, when engaged in one-to-one combat with our characters, it somehow struggles to swiftly kill them. The same Control who took out Tyler in 4 seconds and who was kicking Georgiou's butt pretty badly (although, again, it should have been a lot swifter) can't push the needle 5 more inches into Burnham's eye for 5 seconds? Come on..

I really enjoyed the short crew scenes throughout the episode back on Discovery. Jet Reno's discussion with Culber was the highlight of these, but every bit of scene where the crew interacts helps and I thought this episode could have used a few more of those types of scenes (why not have it at 50 minutes and do just that, instead of 46? I don't know? I just don't know). I still find Detmer underused. Showrunners could have easily come up with a meaningful backstory for her, opportunity missed.

Solid episode (but not devoid of glitches), that gets us to the Section 31 showdown without going berserk with lightning-fast plot developments.
Very intrigued by what is to come next week.
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Mertov
Thu, Apr 4, 2019, 3:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Perpetual Infinity

Good review Jammer as usual, with different points of insight, even some not mentioned by any commenter.

I agree with Rahul's response above to the review.
Yanks, the tether-location issue is a head-scratcher for me too, good point.
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Mertov
Wed, Apr 3, 2019, 6:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Minefield

I barely remembered this episode and I had a hard time staying focused through this watch too. It's conducive to sleeping.

The dialogues drag on and they are not delivered with enough passion by the two actors to keep the interest alert, especially when you know that they will make it at the end.

The directing was the best part of this hour.
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Mertov
Wed, Apr 3, 2019, 12:52am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Shockwave, Part II

My second time seeing this since it originally aired, and I remembered the disappointment I felt back then once I began watching.
Totally with Jadzia above (2015 comment). "Gazelle" story? Really Archer?
Hoshi shirtless and Daniels as McGyver. Jammer's review and rating jusy about covers it all.
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Mertov
Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 12:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Perpetual Infinity

Booming, you mean the reverse of the form that has existed for a long time here :)))
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Mertov
Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 2:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Perpetual Infinity

Daya, I should have underlined more strongly (although I thought I did, but apparently not enough) that I only gave examples to make a larger point, they were not attacks on that particular poster, in fact, I did not even remember who posted them when I wrote them down.
I completely agree with everything you just said :)
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Mertov
Sat, Mar 30, 2019, 12:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Perpetual Infinity

Hi everyone,

Some of the nitpicking is out of this world. I mean, you give me any episode of Trek and let me watch it in detail with the intention to slam it, watch every little facial movement of the characters, every single word of the technobabble, every little turn characters make in the hallways of the ship or station they are in, and I can come up with a nice four or five paragraph of how idiotic, messy, or badly written it is, if my intention was to slam the show.

Same with any Star Trek series, I love TNG but if I didn't like and wanted to slam it I could write a thesis on how TNG totally screwed the Klingons and turned them into low-IQ cartoon characters and slam the TNG showrunners for taking the viewers for idiots, expecting us to believe these infantile race had technological advances, then give a slew of Klingon characters from the 7 years of TNG to back me up, starting with the puerile guy in "The Chase" (how the fuck did that guy ever become a ship captain, what a terrible writer, does he/she not know anything about Star Trek? TNG ruined the Klingons, it sucks, baaahhh, gaaahhh.... you see what I did there) to the nincompoops sitting on the high council over the years. And I can easily multiply those examples, so my larger point stands that TNG took Trekkies for fools, if my intention was, again, to slam the show.

I mean do most Discovery watchers around the world care why a linguistic key from 1000 years was required to delete the data? (Although that is explained, but I could not care less if it weren't, I'm fine with the fact that it does not want to be deleted. Just an example to make my larger point). I care that Michael and her mother are having an unrealistic parting discussion while Leland is kicking Georgious' butt because that looks unrealistic and is an important part of that scene, thus I included it in my comment too, but do I care that "struggle is pointless" resembles "resistance is futile"? I don't. I'm interested what the control-holo's intention is in that conversation not every single word in every phrase he makes has to be examined and dissected. Does it bother me that they quote Hamlet and another character says that it is Hamlet? I don't, certainly not enough to let it bother me so much that I spend time writing paragraphs abut that one and a half second of dialogue and slam it.

Once again, give me any episode of Trek, and I can apply the same standards of nitpicking manifested in these boards and slam it so hard to the ground that it will need a surgery to get back up, if that were my intention. I'm sure the lovers of that episode will come back with their arguments, but hey, I don't care, I did not like the colors of the lights on that console in scene x that appears for two seconds, and that's it! It "sucks" you got it? (!)

I don't believe it is possible to enjoy shows if one is going to nit-pick in that much detail, of course, that is assuming you watch a show that you enjoy, not sitting down to hate-watch. But that is a domain I am not familiar with as I said before. I watch a ton of TV shows, three or four episodes in, I don't like it, it's buh-bye, there are other shows I can replace that with that don't anger me.
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