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Peter H
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 5:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Could they not have just kept firing on the Discovery? Are its shields suddenly impenetrable?

Terrible, terrible episode. Worst of the series by a long shot. Hated all the endless speeches, technobabble and the glorification of Michael.

(Loved the Enterprise interior design though - that was awesome!)
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SlackerInc
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 5:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

I was, as I say, shocked by how much I liked this episode. But I have to just massively roll my eyes at the claim that this series is too sophisticated for many fans to get it. To the contrary: I have four kids and am intimately acquainted with children’s programming, and this show very often tends toward the cliched, overwrought, subtle-as-a-hammer approach those kinds of shows use.

@OTDP: What are “fan film guidelines”?
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 5:06pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@OmnicronThetaDeltaPhi

...Or

Premise A:I liked (previous) Star Trek
Premise B: I don't like Star Trek Discovery

That's it. No need for a corollary. Despite whatever you think, Star Trek Discovery is Star Trek. All the gatekeeping in the world can't change that.
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Greg M
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 5:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Dom

When I wrote my post it was referring to the article you posted, as I replied to him in a Facebook group. That’s where the whole character paragraph comes from. It was a great read.
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Baron Samedi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 4:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Dom - that article was a great read, thanks for posting it.
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Mertov
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 4:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

Ugh, SlackerInc., sorry about that. I'll know not to talk about teasers for next episode next time. Again, apologies..
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Dom
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 4:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Here's a good review of Season 2 of Discovery that puts to words the frustration many of us feel:

https://theculturalconversation.com/2019/04/21/oh-brother-star-trek-discovery-season-2/
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Trent
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 4:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

I thought this episode had two great jokes: Ed and Gordon playing future Nintendo on the couch, and Yaphid dancing like a manic blob.

Thematically, I thought this episode would turn out to be a giant guy's fantasy: Ed misses Kelly, wants to make up for being a poor husband, is still in love with her, and so, via a time-travel contrivance, conjures up a version of Kelly from 7 years ago. Finally a chance to make things right!

But, perhaps because it was written by a woman (Janet Lin, who I assume has no interest in creepy Ed), the episode focuses on Kelly instead. The younger Kelly is used to examine older Kelly's insecurities and her perceived failures. We then get a moment of twin-sister solidarity: younger Kelly assures older Kelly that their lives turned out well.

But when younger Kelly returns to her own time (via another time travel contrivance), she commits a breathtakingly sinister act of vengeance. She turns down a date with Ed and so effectively kills future Kelly.

What's interesting is that, when she was in the future, younger Kelly saved the Orville from certain destruction at the hands of the Kaylon. This detail seems strangely specific, and I assume this occurrence will have weird ramifications in the next episode.

Some have complained that Ed is a giant creep in this episode, but I think he redeems himself. He's just madly in love with All Kelly's, but recognizes Old Kelly as his Prime Kelly. And I'm not even sure that ditching your Present Ex for her Past Version is immoral. I dunno.

It's interesting that Discovery ends with a time-travel heavy two partner, and Orville likewise is now ending its season with a time-travel two parter.

Anyway, I found this to be a decent episode, engaging and pleasant but a bit too low-energy and low-stakes. It's very hard to rate it without knowing where the second installment goes. Some have compared it to TNG's "Second Chances", but I think it also echoes TNG's "We'll Always have Paris", an underrated time-travel episode, this time with Picard pining for a long lost love, and contemplating his past, career and various regrets.

I hope they lean a bit heavier on the comedy next season. Just a slightly bit more jokes and wisecracks (or is this just me? Do people prefer a more straight tone?); this season has been very serious, and very relationship heavy, with only 1 real "planet of the week" story. It's handed its little "SF relationship" plots consistently well, but "anthology" shows like this need some variety.
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SlackerInc
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 4:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

I wish people would not spoil what is in the previews.
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Al
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 4:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Stamets/Control is neutralized - so why bother to carry on through the wormhole?

People are risking their lives all around us so as to make time for the 'Red Angel' to complete it's mission. So seems like the ideal time for us to have a little chat about how much we like eachother.

And who shall we send to diffuse the bloody great bomb sticking through the ship? Somebody from the weapons department? An informed member of the engineering crew? Nope - let's have the most senior ranking officer available - obvious really.

And then let's all pretend none of this ever happened.

I've enjoyed quite a lot of this second season but this final episode did get a bit silly for me.
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Meister
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 3:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Outcast

Ugh 5/10

The whole lead up to Riker and the Genai pilot in the shuttle felt like a porn film leadup. The glances, etc.


I cannot believe Crusher talked about the Genai pilot in the poker game. They were there for treatment. I don't think gossiping about behaviour observed in the exam room for a patient there for even a minor concussion is proper.


And what`s this? Riker kissing the Genai? They didnt show if it lead to sex. Same as with Troi and that Masterpiece administrator. We saw Troi the next morning so we knew (or guessed, she later admitted) So we don't know what Riker and Genai pilot did but would he throw himself on his sword and beg forgiveness of the captain? it's worse behaviour especially when he knows the penalties on the planet if the Genai pilot is caught. I know this is just a plot device to the bigger theme of rights . I'm just keeping it real. Why was Troi so upset she had sex and Riker isn't and his is worse.


Wow and then Picard doesn't lecture Riker on what he has already done. Isn't he interfering in their society by helping Soren to escape. And certainly shouting out that Soren is already normal to the court is interfering. And he gives him a pass. Did the planet not contact Picard to complain? If not, why not?
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Lee
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 3:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

....following my post above, then Saru even says "All remaining power to forward shields." This was said by captain Robau.
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Lee
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 3:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Did anyone else notice that almost perfect lift from dialogue in Star Trek (2009) from the USS Kelvin battle? One female officer on the Kelvin mentions "Life support failing on decks seven and thirteen" and then George Kirk mentions something along the lines of "Shields at eleven percent and dropping, ten percent...we're at nine."
These lines are repeated exactly at around 25:00 by Detmer and Owosekun.
Thought I'd heard that somewhere before!
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Matt B
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 3:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Samaritan Snare

Definitely a weird episode. To follow up on the other Matt’s comment: why did they have to use all the technobabble for a heard replacement? It’s like they wanted to be futuristic but there is no need for that. Just makes those scenes painful.

And the way they Paklids surrender seems weird. A better ending is having Geordi overwealm their power, taking down the shields, and just being beamed off.
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Galadriel
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 2:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Sorry Booming and Artymiss, your excessve feature requests are unfeasible. I just piped the HTML file through a pipe that counts the number of posting head lines and reformats it properly. Your desired weighting by posting length would require much more extensive work.

wget -O - https://www.jammersreviews.com/st-dsc/s2/such-sweet-sorrow-2.php | grep -i view.all.com | cut -d\" -f6 | cut -d' ' -f5- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr | sed -e 's/^ *//' -e 's/\([^ ]*\) \(.*\)/\2 (\1)/' -e 's/$/, /' | xargs | sed 's/, *$/./'
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Mertov
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 2:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Booming, I laughed hard at your "recount" post, good one, and thanks for brightening up the day :))).
Galadriel, I am getting up there too, joining the trend :)
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Mertov
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 2:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

"The actors can't give away
Their autographs or pics for free
Because one coke-fueled studio suit named Kurtzman came to say,
"Sonequa, your performance stinks,"
"But I don't care what viewers think!"
'Cause all of the market research
Said fans were desperate as dogs in heat"

What a distasteful piece of writing. Did you expect the actors to give away pictures and autographs for free? Your hatred of Kurtzman has obviously blinded you since he has nothing to do with that. Just recently, at a convention, I spent close to $200 for pictures and autographs with William Shatner, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Dwight Schultz. But yeah, they should give them away for free because... Kurtzman..
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Artymiss
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 2:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Greg M
Agree re Stamets. This has been a disappointment for me this season. He was a major character in season 1 but in season 2 was very under utilised. If I was Rapp I'd be fed up. As we've lost several characters hopefully there will be space in season 3 to make better use of Stamets.
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Artymiss
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 2:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Galadrial
One comment by one poster may very well be the same length as all my shortish comments combined! I think you need to go by word length! Or you could use a ruler and measure each comment... :D
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Mertov
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 2:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

Oh dear, really disappointing episode after one of the best of the season last week. I don’t know what it is with penultimate episodes of seasons, but I watch a lot of TV shows and for the most part, they are rarely above mediocre. Here is another bland rehash of a TNG episode, same main themes covered. The only decent part is its last ten seconds and the teaser for next week, the latter technically not part of the episode.

The technobabble used to explain the two Kellys apparently means, “Kelly’s thoughts did this,” as Ed says. But that’s fine, I am perfectly willing to accept technobabble, I even like technobabble. But the first face-off of Kelly and Kelly and them circling around each other (with what is supposedly an eerie score) falls flat. Kelly and Ed trying to explain in unison why they got divorced to the younger Kelly also falls flat (I think it was supposed to be funny). Ed and Gordon playing a video game, ugh… but typical of the two of them. Even the opening scene with the four of them having a drink was bad (no humor, boring talk, Kelly showing a decade worth of more maturity than Ed as always), and usually those are the scenes that The Orville has nailed before. But all this is nit-picking, and I would happily wave these off, except that the episode doesn’t even offer a decent story.

The predictability factor is sky-high throughout the episode.

As soon as Lamar and Isaac say Kelly cannot be sent back, I felt that eventually that would change, and it did. As soon as Kelly and Kelly became friends at first, I knew that would not last, and it did not. Younger Kelly gets a uniform, it’s clear that by the end of the hour she will no longer be in it, and she is eventually not. When they turned on each other I felt that would turn around too, and it did. When the younger Kelly flirted with Ed, I knew he would give it a shot and that the older Kelly would not welcome the idea, both happened. The moment that the older Kelly entered the younger Kelly’s room to express her reservations to her, I knew the dialogue would turn confrontational, and it did. Kaylon ships search for The Orville in a forced scene, obviously that story can't be developed within this hour, so obviously they will not locate The Orville, they do not (never midn the suspense attempt with the score). As soon as Ed and the younger Kelly started the romance, it was clear that it wouldn’t last, and it did not. Plus, Ed changes his mind like a teenager within the same day. He is all over the idea of reigniting the affair with Kelly and moves forward with it, then, one evening at the 90s-themed techno-discotheque apparently is all it takes for him to change his mind. I am thankful for the Bortus-Klyden dance and distraction, the only moment I chuckled in the episode.

At the very end, the younger Kelly rejects the younger’s Ed proposal to get together again back in the past, which indicates a change in continuity and that last bit of 10 seconds (followed by the teaser where the younger Kelly is shown again) gives some hope for next week. 1,5 stars for me on Jammer’s scale, and that half star is added only after the last ten seconds. Otherwise, a dismal episode.

Cringy moment number one of the hour: When Ed tells Kelly about his intention to date younger Kelly, he says to her, “All you have to say is you want to try again with me, and I won’t even consider it.” Way to go Ed for basically saying, “Love me again Kelly, or I am going after the younger you.” Wow dude…

Cringy moment number two of the hour: “Doesn’t this feel a little messed up? It’s just… I already felt this with someone else.” Wow again Ed.. You wait until you get in bed with her and kiss her passionately before dropping this on her? And then follow it up with “I still love her [the older Kelly].”? O-kayyy..
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Booming
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Galadriel
Ok ok, but most of my comments are pretty short.
Once it was just Hahahaha. I demand a recount!
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Kinematic
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Other Robert

In the interest of giving you your money's worth of entertainment here I present this:

Michael the red winged angel
Was on Star Trek Discovery
Spock never talks about her
Her story was a butchery
All of the Star Trek fandom
Laugh and call it STD
The actors can't give away
Their autographs or pics for free
Because one coke-fueled studio suit named Kurtzman came to say,
"Sonequa, your performance stinks,"
"But I don't care what viewers think!"
'Cause all of the market research
Said fans were desperate as dogs in heat
But Michael's so nauseating
The network writes it off their balance sheet!
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Gerontius
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

What I've seen of Discovery seems pretty familiar to me. Just not so much familiar from Star Trek vessels visually.
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Galadriel
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:31pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Mertov: “Wow, almost 200 comments in little less than three days since the finale aired? I bet about a 100 were by about 6-7 commenters”

At present, it is 206 comments by 71 authors, the most prolific of which are Alan Roi (23), Booming (17), Artymiss (11), Tim C (7), Boura (7), Chrome (6), axiom (6), Trent (5), Quincy (5), OmicronThetaDeltaPhi (5), Daya (5), wolfstar (4), Kinematic (4), Galadriel (4), Cody B (4), Brian Lear (4). The top 7 commenters amount to 80 posts.
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SmallKiwi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

At the risk of sounding like a teenage boy, did anyone else love Young Kelly's look? Adorable. Makes me hope for a hair style change for "Old Kelly" in season 3. Something a little more fun.
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