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LP30
Wed, Aug 2, 2017, 1:57pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: The First Duty

"It bothers me that Wesley only stood up to tell the truth AFTER judgement was pronounced"

On the flip side of that, you could also make the case that Wesley stood up and confessed DESPITE the fact that they were only getting the equivalent of a slap on the hand for the actions they had taken, because there was simply not enough evidence to prove what the judges already knew really happened anyway.

While Locarno kept beating the idea of 'protecting the team' into Wesley, he should have responded with:

"What about protecting the team's honor and telling the truth? What good is our team if we have no integrity and lie about what we've done and try to cover it up? How is a team like that even worth defending?"
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LP30
Fri, Jun 9, 2017, 1:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: The Pegasus

Actually, Picard never asked Riker to break any order. Go back and watch the scene again.

Remember, Picard had gotten ahold of the 'buried', secret report before he ever called Riker into his quarters. Picard already new something had been covered up, and that much of the story surrounding Pressman's original mission had been classified, even though a judge had recommended an inquiry into the possibility of mutiny.

Now enter Riker, who actually NEGLECTS to tell Picard at the very beginning that he's under orders not to discuss anything. Instead, he begins telling a mostly bogus story, and actually flat-out lies when he tells Picard they were 'running tests on the engines', hoping the story would be good enough that Picard wouldn't continue to question him, and therefore not expose Riker's involvement in the mutiny, as well as his knowledge about the experiment.

It was only when Picard probed too far that Riker finally pulled out his "I'm under direct orders by Admiral Pressman not to discuss this, sir', which of course was AFTER Riker had already given a false account to Picard about what happened.

I agree that Picard had no right to 'threaten' Riker with a change in the command structure of the ship because of one incident that he didn't even have all the data for, not to mention the fact that he's suddenly questioning Riker's loyalty and job performance after they've served together for seven years. You'd think they would have built up a high level of trust over that time-period.

On the other hand, there was no reason for Riker to suddenly start lying to Picard, that was definitely a strike against him. He should have either told Picard from the beginning that he couldn't talk about it, or disobey orders and tell Picard everything. The fact that he took the middle 'grey' area was a very poor choice, in my opinion.

Also, the fact that Riker DID discuss the mutiny with Picard, which was highly classified, means Riker had already disobeyed Pressman's orders.
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LP30
Sun, May 7, 2017, 12:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Thanks Chrome.

Remember that the reason for the mishandling of trilithium was because Picard screwed up their operation and sabotaged the device that would have protected them from the Baryon sweep. That's why she rushed her team to dump the trilithium as fast as possible and carry it with them. I think their original plan (although never stated) was to beam directly from engineering onto their ship without having to transport their stolen material to Ten Forward.

Things would have gone very smoothly for Kesley if Picard had not been onboard. There would have been no reason for things to go 'dreadfully wrong' otherwise.
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LP30
Sun, May 7, 2017, 11:00am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Thanks, RandomThoughts.

Also, it seems that even random ships from other species (especially Romulans) know Captain Picard immediately simply because of his fame throughout the quadrant. There's no doubt that a specialized infiltration group would know everything about Picard and the command structure on board.

I do understand Chrome's points, which are that the onboard mission itself did not necessarily rely on interacting with the crew, but if they had been 'planning this for a long time' it seems very natural they would have at least a basic understanding of the crew manifest.

One other point that's yet to be brought up (in the last few posts) is that they were supposedly working in tandem with the group that was holding Riker and his team hostage. That would almost certainly indicate that the entire team (including Kelsey) would have intimate knowledge of the entire command structure, ESPECIALLY Picard.
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LP30
Sat, May 6, 2017, 5:22pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Oh come now. Are you planning on secretly boarding a Naval vessel?

I would have believed you up until I heard that Kelsey knew exactly the name of the captain, then it was all over from there. This is the 24th century....you don't think that an immediate inquiry of Captain Picard on any computer wouldn't bring up a current photograph? That is common place even now in the 21st century via the internet.

I knew what the Commandant of the Marine Corps looked like during my service and got to shake his hand over in Iraq during my enlistment. There was no doubt it was him even though he was surrounded by other officers.
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LP30
Sat, May 6, 2017, 3:21pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Not to beat this particular topic into the ground, but I just watched this episode again and realized I missed the following dialogue starting at about 39:00 into the show:

Kelsey: You're the only one who needs a deal Mott.

Picard: My name isn't Mott, it's Jean-Luc Picard.

Kelsey: Captain Picard? This is all beginning to make sense.

All Picard did is say his name, it was KELSEY who immediately identified his rank. So you're telling me she knew exactly who the captain of the Enterprise's name was, but had no idea what he looked like?

I don't think so....
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LP30
Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 3:59pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: Time's Arrow, Part I

I do really give a flying crap what Iceman thinks about a series I've watched for the last twenty years...............
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LP30
Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 3:11pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Honestly, had to watch the episode again just now before responding to your post.

Let's take Kelsey's banter with Picard for example: "Lieutenant, Lieutenant commander perhaps?". It gives the impression that she is fully versed in federation command structure and is very astute to the rank of individuals she encounters.

I would say personality wise, it's a direct sell as to her need to know and understand the rank structure of the ship.

In regard to the actual script of the episode, there's no reason for her to know anything about the crew, other than the fact that the ship will be vulnerable at a given period of time. In that regard, I agree with you.

However, if you were preparing to take over the highest vessel that a country had to offer as a successful CIA infiltrator, would you not become very educated as to the individuals you might encounter during that time?
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LP30
Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 2:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Actually, Kelsey seemed to have intimate knowledge of the ship, so much so that she knew every path available to get to ten-forward from her present location.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I just find it hard to believe that none of her entire gang would know who the captain is and what he looked like.

But that's just my opinion. You do bring up very valid points.
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LP30
Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 1:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

While I do see your point Chrome, I think planning an infiltration into a starship is markedly different than a bank robbery.

Kelsey said they had been planning the mission for a long time, and I've no doubt that this would include having a good handle on the crew manifest, specifically the commanding officers on board.

You're right that the mission itself had little to nothing to do with the crew, however it still seems likely they would have studied the chain of command in case they accidentally ran into one of them. Don't forget that they were already on board before the baryon sweep and before the ship was officially shut down. We get the nostalgic scene of Picard on the bridge just before Kelsey's gang comes on deck to start making modifications.

Wouldn't they want to be well versed with the commanding officers in case they needed to explain themselves?
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LP30
Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 12:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

Good points, Outsider65.

One more issue: This gang spent a long time preparing for this mission and they don't even know what the captain of the ship looks like? Very unlikely.
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LP30
Thu, Apr 13, 2017, 1:47am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S4: The Nth Degree

Ever notice.....the 'educated' are the political group you agree with, and the 'ignorant' are the political group you despise?
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LP30
Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 11:53am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: Homeward

Great dialogue going on so far. While I really enjoyed this episode and continue to watch it, I also have my own criticism with regard to how the various social issues were handled on this show.

My main objection is with the somewhat cold-hearted approach both Picard and Diana had toward Vorin. They were both so obsessed with political correctness and 'cultural sensitivity' that they completely failed to give Vorin what he really needed during the whole time: a friend. That leads me to ask, where the hell was Guinan during this episode? She would have been the perfect friend who might have opened his eyes to the enormous and amazing opportunities awaiting him if he decided to leave his people and stay with the Federation.

If he had been shown a very positive view of his future and all of the possibilities available to him, he might have been so excited that he would have had his head spinning with all the opportunities available in 24th century humanity.

Instead, they basically left him alone in a room to stew and dwell on all the negative aspects of his situation, with zero encouragement whatsoever.

I think if he had gotten real friendship from just one single person, he would still be alive and well into a fulfilling career by now. Picard and Diana were so bent on being 'culturally sensitive' that they were walking on egg shells every time they communicated with him, which only made the situation worse. How about some common sense for a change, realizing that Vorin is a person instead of labeling him as a 'pre-warp inferior civilization' that they can't talk to normally.
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LP30
Fri, Mar 31, 2017, 12:31pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: The First Duty

Maybe Boothyby really is and has always been a member of species 8472 this whole time.....that's why they made sure to replicate him on Star Trek Voyager: In The Flesh.

I do really like that they continued to bring this actor back once in awhile on different shows.
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LP30
Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 8:06pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: Homeward

I have to disagree with you, Diana. Put yourself in Nikolai's shoes for a moment.....think about if it was you watching these people for several years, becoming very attached to them. Would it be such an easy decision to simply follow the Prime Directive?

I liked that you pointed out the potential future problems of mixing DNA from two species - obviously the baby will have features from both parents, one of whom is obviously not Boraalan.

Picard certainly has had his share of "living in the gray zone" in regard to following orders and rules, which is why I found it somewhat hypocritical for him to get so angry at Nikolai. Remember "A Matter of Time", where he gives an entire speech on 'bending the rules' when the circumstances justify it and lives are on the line?
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LP30
Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 7:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Ship in a Bottle

Sean, are you commenting on the wrong episode? This one was about Moriarty and his attempt to leave the holodeck as a sequel to his initial introduction.

Were you implying that the doctor could have given his holographic family consciousness the same way Moriarty was given it?
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LP30
Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 7:20pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: The First Duty

Thanks, Diana. That's a very plausible explanation and one I would be comfortable with.

I think it's a joke for them to tell us that (in canon) that these two characters are different people who just happen to both be master pilots. Give me a break.

Locarno IS Paris, who made a mistake, got sent to the penal colony, and was then recruited by Janeway because of his incredible piloting skills.

I thought Locarno's plea for leniency for the others on his team was a noble thing to do...unfortuately, Wesley left Starfleet, Sito was sent on a rotten mission that she didn't return from by Picard, and we're never told what happened to the fourth member of the team (Jean Hajar).
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