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Bucktown
Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 2:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Sleeping Dogs

"I cannot believe a race as obstinate, belligerent and primitive as the Klingons would ever have invented the wheel, never mind done anything useful with it. For them to be a warp-capable civilization is incredible. But anyway..."

Michael,

I forget where this came from precisely, but wasn't it established in canon in an earlier show that the Klingons stole all their advanced technology (including warp) from the Romulans? Of course the Romulans wouldn't have any kind of Prime Directive, and the Klingons becoming warp capable centuries before they naturally would explains a lot.
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Bucktown
Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 3:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Dear Doctor

Jason R.,

I think Dr. Phlox's use of the word "evolved" is totally and dangerously incorrect. When he says a species is "more evolved" than another, it propagates the unscientific belief that evolution has an ultimate destiny, when in scientific reality, it does not. Evolution is based ONLY on genetic mutations that benefit survivability in a particular environment over those without the mutation. We're not all destined to become pure beings of light.

The words he could have used that would have been scientifically correct would have been "developed" or "complex." It's possible the Valakians may have had a more complex neurological system than the Menk. But it is IMPOSSIBLE for Phlox to know if a species' brain would become more complex generations down the line without the use of a time machine. The only argument I could see is by wiping out the Valakians, the Menk's prime benefactors who they relied on for survivability, would create a new environment where the Menk must adapt or die, possibly favoring resourceful Menk over the long run.

This episode gets 0 Stars purely for the garbage science alone. This episode may have even informed some people's personal understanding of evolution, which is almost unforgivable.

But this episode is not about evolution really. The story they wanted to tell (but also failed here as well) was about the origins of the Prime Directive and non-interference in other planetary races' development. Many people have stated here in the comments in respects to the appalling interpretation of the Prime Directive in this episode, so I don't need to go into it too.

But there was something here that could have worked and made sense as a morality tale for the need of non-interference, and they totally missed the opportunity. Everything in the episode is the same leading up to that conservation between Phlox and Archer. My change would have been Phlox couldn't find a cure. He's a doctor, not a cultural anthropologist, so of course he then pleads with Archer to still try to help them live (Hippocratic Oath and all). The Valakians had earlier asked Archer for their warp drive technology so they could go out on their own to see if another species can help them find a cure. Because of Phlox's urging and his own pain at seeing suffering, Archer reluctantly gives the Valakians the specs for warp drive to help them save themselves. But the Valakians prove incapable of handling this new technology in their current state of scientific development, where they unintentionally cause an anti-matter chain reaction, destroying the entire planet. Both Menk and Valakians are now wiped out. The Prime Directive is about culture, technology, and engineering and the need for a race to develop social ideas and these advanced machines on their own. It is NOT about watching people die until they magically figure out warp drive technology.

Yes, my proposed story change is a lot darker, but it actually is a story about the need for the Prime Directive that MAKES SENSE, both scientifically and culturally.
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Prospekt
Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 12:27am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

Here's my hot take: people are bashing this episode because there's a lot of indulgent goodbye scenes in it, but compare that to The Orville's "Identity, Part I" which was similarly packed with indulgent goodbye scenes - to a single character who was explicitly demonstrated to be unable to even comprehend the gravity of any of them. Complete with a party scene, heartbroken children, and sappy 20th century music. If we want to talk about cliche melodrama look no further. And yet a lot of people here had no problems and even praised it.

I'm reserving judgement on this episode, like others, as this is basically careful setup for whatever the finale brings. Given all of the press about it completely shaking up the universe and whatnot, I am quite optimistic.
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Prospekt
Fri, Mar 1, 2019, 12:02am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

also y'all Talos IV holy crap I'm so excited
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Prospekt
Fri, Mar 1, 2019, 12:01am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

IMO, this was a solid episode and probably my personal favorite of the series so far, because it just felt right. It didn't try to be more than it was and it achieved exactly what it set out to do - move us into the next half of the season.

The dialogue was surprisingly snappy and natural; it didn't feel stilted like it commonly does. The Spock-Amanda-Michael interactions were smoothly done. The A plot was pretty riveting and I enjoyed the drama, and the B plot may have been superfluous but there wasn't anything glaringly bad about it. Also I'm a sucker for time wackiness.

Overall, the most well-composed episode of the season so far. 3.5 stars.
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Viktor
Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 11:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Charlie X

Ein starkes Kapitel, das mich unbehaglich gemacht hat, die Gymnastik-Szene ist wirklich witzig
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Viktor
Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 11:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Man Trap

Ich fange an, die Serie erneut zu sehen, da mir diese Folge nicht gefällt, zu altmodisch für meinen Geschmack, nicht für die Kostüme und Effekte dieser interrassischen Charaktere
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Viktor
Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 4:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: Encounter at Farpoint

I wanna watch all of Star Trek, I love ds9 this was my show, so I want to give the rest of the franchise a try, this episode was goofy but I still liked it, the music at the opening, the visiual effects , 2.5 for Sentiment reason
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KT
Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 2:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@BZ @Jimmy

Explained also the discrepancies between early TOS Klingons and later, more warrior like Klingons, and possibly why women can't serve on the council; House Mokai turned the Klingon Empire into dishonourable spies!
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KT
Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 10:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@BZ who said "BSG was consistently good"

Really?! Even that s1 episode where the centuri ambassador had a love affair? And then about 5 eps later he chastises his nephew for having one, before proudly saying he's had 3 wives and couldn't stand any of them. A further few episodes later he tells Garibaldi that he married a dancing girl he fell for on the spot. There's nothing consistent or good about s1 B5 imo ...
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KT
Tue, Feb 20, 2018, 7:40am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Ed
"Exactly. While the story might have been more interesting with an added subplot about contested territory, nothing the characters said or did gives that impression."

Yeah, the writers seemed to have dropped any potential of the Klingon territorial claim in favour of making it seem like TKuvma was a warmongerer for unification purposes. Maybe they were attempting a commentary on Margret Thatcher and the Falklands war, or Bush and the Iraq war.
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KT
Mon, Feb 19, 2018, 2:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Jammer
"there have been only three without a single four-star-episode as reviewed by Jammer: VOY1, ENT4, and DIS1. "

While I totally agree DIS1 doesn't deserve 4stars and would question the 3 stars it has been given, ENT4 "observer effect" deserves 4, or 3 and a half at least. I don't know why jammer would only give it a 3.
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KT
Mon, Feb 19, 2018, 5:07am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Peter G "If there's any possibility of doubt that the borders are well-understood by both parties then the onus is on the Federation (the diplomats) to make sure everything is clear."

If that's the case why did Georgiou say with certainty, "This is Federation space, retreat is not an option. We have to flush the Klingons out".
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KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 6:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@JP
"why is there a centuries-old Klingon artifact in this area of space? Could it be that the Discovery is actually in Klingon space and might be perceived as the aggressors? "

Except the Klingons apparently never told the Federation it's their space; they never seemed interested in talking. Except to each other about how they will Dominate and Remain Klingon.

"By boarding the Beacon, Burnham was giving the Klingons cause to defend themselves. "

Because exploration and identification (which is all Burnham did) are cause for defence? If there was a chance of diplomacy with them, why did they ignore hails?

"There was no justification for Discovery to fire first."

Burnham's reasoning was not solely based on the events of that day. She also factored in what Sarek had told her and her knowledge of Klingons as a 'warrior race'.
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KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 2:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@JP
"What establishes the Federation's claim to this uninhabited area of space?"

As mentioned in the episode there's a nearby Starbase and Andorian Colony.

"The Klingons clearly felt that their artifact gave them the claim"

Where did you get this impression from? what Burnham initially describes as 'an artifact' was actually a ship covered in coffins. She and Saru work this out later on in the first episode. I recall that, in a later episode, TKuvma said that he got the ship back up and running after it was laying in ruins from the generation before. So it definitely hasn't been up in space in the same spot for thousands of years.

"You just said that the Klingons "lay in wait in order to start a war""

I said the above because we know they did, from the dialogue that we were privy too which SF were not.

"but now you claim that no one suggested that"

That's not what I claimed. I said that no one assumed that Klingons are trying to start a war based solely on their "Damaging a minor, unmanned sensor relay on the outskirts of Federation space" -which is what you claimed I claimed.

If you can't keep straight what you're talking about from one post to the next I suggest you accept that this is all too much for you and give up.
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KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 12:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@JP
"And since no one has seen a Klingon in a hundred years, why would you assume the Klingons even recognized this area as Federation space? "

This sentence is riddled with so many wrongs I don't know where to start. Georgou says 'ALMOST no one has seen a Klingon in hundred yrs'. The truth is that whilst Starfleet have not been to Kronos for about 100yrs, there have been attacks by Klingons on Federation outposts and ship to ship skirmishes throughout the last 100yrs e.g. the attack which killed Burnham's parents and the 'fleeting run-ins' mentioned by the Admiral in the 1st episode.

In ENT the Tellerite in BOUNTY clearly speaks of 'Klingon space', which if you cross they will take your ship. TKurma, at the very start of DSC is whining about how the Federation is coiling around their space. All this indicates that as more and more worlds joined the Federation their space was starting to surround Klingon space.

"Damaging a minor, unmanned sensor relay on the outskirts of Federation space does not mean the Klingons are looking to start a war."

No-one said it did. But in the context of the aforementioned history, destroying SF equipment at the edge of UFP space, taking a lunge at a SF commander, decloaking in a face-off position nearby and then ignoring hails isn't exactly non-threatening behaviour. Burnham can't understand why Klingons have not attacked but appear to be calling for backup. Sarek deduces that a new leader/unify may be behind these actions, and that he maybe trying to start a war. If the boot fits.
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KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:18am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

"Have the last word, because I’m not inclined to continue to engage you after you reduced my entire post to one sentence."

Your post was rambling on about real life and B5 to try and justify your claim that DSC breaks STAR TREK canon with regards to house of TKuvma's religious type behaviour, and klingon/starfleet interactions. I just cut out the irrelevant stuff...

On another note, I never finished watching B5. I couldn't get past that BORING episode where the Centuri Ambassdor has a love affair.
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KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 8:51am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Tim
"I don't feel that the Klingons were ever portrayed as the bloodthirsty animals that Discovery made them out to be."

In the TOS movies the only reason a humbled Klingon government reached out in peace to the UFP was due to their having brought Kronos to the brink of destruction by over-mining Praxis.

There was also Kruge and the Duras sisters trying to get a hold of WMDs.

In TNG eps Birthright Wolf teaches Klingons living in a secret Romulan colony about how exhilarating  hunting is.

And you don't think Klingons are bloodthirsty?

Maybe you're suffering from the same romanticism of Klingons that Curzon and Jadzia had.
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KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 6:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Tim
"Bloodthirsty to the point that we're justified in firing at them on sight?"

Now you're just exaggerating. Nobody in DSC fired on sight without cause.
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KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 3:48am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Tim
"It is in no way comparable to the unprovoked attack recommended by Burnham in 'The Vulcan Hello'"

Klingons purposely and wilfully destroyed federation  eqiupment in federation space and then lay in wait in order to start a war. When Burnham went to investigate she was attacked without cause. Her Captain was sceptical of Burnham's recollection of events because Burnham had severe radiation poisoning. With the stakes so high, it might seem logical to attack if your priority is to prevent loss of life rather than to follow the starfleet way...

"Not really an in-character suggestion for a Vulcan either"

Vulcans will do the logical thing. They will do what is necessary when diplomacy has failed or has no obvious chance.

"unless we're going to retcon the Klingons into being mindless bloodthirsty animals"

The Klingons are a warrior race, they do have a thirst for battle, conquering and victories. I don't see this as a retcon. And they are similar to Jem Hader in this way, as acknowledged in ds9 'by infernos light'.
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KT
Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 1:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

@Chrome
"Was Dukat such a threat that he’d use his orange magic fire to blow up DS9? That wasn’t made clear."

Dukat was raving about how the Parwraiths were going to set the entire universe in flames, to burn for all eternity. So yeah I'd say the station was in danger ...

"Arguably he could’ve just stayed on the station and looked for a different solution with his crew."

The path set our by non-linear wormhole aliens may not always be clear but we have to have faith that they did the best the could to repel the evil non-corporeal aliens (aka Parwraiths). And that Sisko's sacrifice was a necessity born out of the events on the station in 'Tears of the Prophets' and Sisko's not being there then. That's what he got for being a Starfleet family man first, instead of the Emissary who heeds the wormhole aliens. And after reading a lot of the negative comments about DS9 on these threads, I fear for all your paghs.
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KT
Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 9:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

@Tim
"Man Abandons His Children to Embark on Religious Quest is an asinine and selfish story"

We must have watched different shows as this is not what I gathered from DS9. Sisko died; sh*t happens. He didn't chose to leave his family. It was made clear that his preference would have been to retire on Bajor with Kasidy. Avery Brooks needn't have been concerned.
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KT
Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 8:20am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

@Tim
"The Dominion tells us to stay the fuck out of their territory, a request that was mostly honored in EVERY previous incarnation of Trek vis-à-vis the Klingons, Romulans, and even minor races-of-the-week that we never saw again, where it was always portrayed as a Big Deal™ to violate someone's territory"

In TOS' the Enterprise Incident starfleet send it's flagship on an elaborate ruse into enemy space to steal Romulan tech -a blatant treaty violation!

Picard is often show as keeping the Romulans at bay only due to show of force. This method won't be as easy to employ on a much more powerful race like the Dominion. Especially if the AQ is divided, and Starfleet command were very away of this hence the sitting back in the ''the die is cast'.

Seems to me SF have always struggled with upholding their values when faced with enemy threat. And so they should ...
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KT
Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 7:34am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

@Tim
"A culture like the MU Terrans would struggle to escape hunter-gatherism and establish agriculture. It's fanciful to imagine they could establish an intersteller civilization. That's the problem with spending more than a single episode in the MU or trying to take it too seriously. It falls apart under even a casual examination."

I'm not convinced of this; I don't think that MU culture necessarily prevents establishment of agriculture. Only lack of seeds and that knowledge of what to do with them would prevent agriculture ... how did you come to this conclusion?
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KT
Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 5:48am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

"My primary worry is that some CBS ratings data analysts have resolutely determined that Discovery will lose a significant portion of its audience if the plot isn't always moving at a breakneck pace" (BARON SAMEDI)

Absolute capitalism is ruining star trek.
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