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Hank
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 12:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Booming: Yeah, bad choice of words, that wasn't my intention, more a comment on his (apparent) self-identification.

And you are exactly right, Picard is, like Discovery was, utterly confused in what it wants to tell its audience - because in truth, it doesn't want to tell us anything, it ticks boxes because it is there to make money, completely muddling any points it could make.
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E. Kristjansson
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 11:33am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

I'm really disappointed with this show. If I want to watch some overly complicated plot, along with torture scenes and foul language. I'll just watch the latest opuses from Tarantino or Scorcese.

It is not what I expect from Star Trek :)
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Clark
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 10:55am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

I honestly felt like the violence was used to show us that this is not the same world we started out in with Picard in TNG. This is a world were Picard feels he needs to take rouge action against the direct orders of Starfleet because it, and the galaxy it controls, no longer resemble what he devoted his life to. Years of galaxy-wide war, borg invasion, Romulan diaspora....it makes sense its not the same and needs to have someone like Picard lead them back to the light... but that could easily just be me trying like and justify what I'm seeing because I want to like it.
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Hank
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 9:30am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

"Picard goes into a preachy rant about "humanity" that is obviously intended to mock the high-faluting speeches Picard gave in TNG. Because that's all he did: Give speeches and then never act, never help those in need. He gave speeches and then went home and felt his job was done. And look at the world that has come out of that mind-set. Look at what the Federation has become."

Are you for real? Are you ACTUALLY for real?

"That's why its so amazing that Annika - who has reclaimed her name and her humanity - listens to his bullshit and then goes back to doing what needs to be done: Taking action. Punishing those who need punishment. Righting wrongs and not letting people get away with their disregard for others."

Yes! Shoot those fuckers! Fuck rehabilitation or progress, the death penalty it is! Old testament bullshit.

"The writers have taken a character that was always objectified, that was nothing more than eye candy to satisfy the male gaze of its audience and they've turned her into a feminist icon: A woman who decides how she looks, what she is called and who will not let evil people trample over the lives of others any longer."

A woman who acts exactly like Dirty Harry, because as it turns out, the old white men were right all along. And really? That's ALL you've seen in Seven up until now? God ... So the endgoal of feminism is to turn all women into angry men, got it.

"SHE is the moral center of this episode while Picard still is a nostalgic old fool who has to learn that he and his speeches are part of the problem, not of the solution."

Eye for an eye. How progressive. Oh wait. No. Thats regressive ...

"I salute a show that dares to take its source material, deconstruct it and tell people why that source material was problematic. And I just hope we get a spin-off show of Annika Hansen travelling through the galaxy and making people pay who deserve it."

This is what you want? That's what you "progressive" people clamour for? Revenge porn and more vigilante violence? Jesus fucking H. Christ, the absolute state of humanity ... I am honestly at a loss for words ...
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Markus R.
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 3:23am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

I sadly must agree with jammer's review, but for some other reasons. I found the ending rather intriguing (Jurati killing Maddox), and the Horror Scene in the beginning was unneccessary, but effective in motivating Seven of Nine. Because that is the one Point I cannot understand in the least. I feel Picard is somewhat off character (even taken into consideration that People can Change), but Seven was barely recognizable to me. I also was shocked About the dullness of the whole Episode, and that even an able director like Frakes could not milk the Little Quality that was there more. And it is even shocking to see that Kirsten Beyer, well-versed ST novel author and allegedly very sensitive when it comes to "Canon" and "essence" of ST, wrote this Episode. Even painful Moments like Raffi meeting her son (during the birht of his child? what a coincidence…) fell flat.
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Trek noir
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 12:31am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Your answer is as shitty as the writing and Bergman’s treatment of his audience. Haha? Really my man?
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Trek noir
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 10:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Yes @Dave in MN why not address the shitty writing of Best of Both Worlds Part 1?

Mr. LaForge was just seen ushering his team out of engineering with an arm waving gesture as the emergency bulkhead doors were closing. Is not Mr. LaForge derelict in duty if he left his station with 11 wounded and 8 dead? What kind of writing has him showing up on the bridge with a clean uniform and what type of writing has them ignore those casualties? Terrible writing that you give are giving a pass.
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Trek noir
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 10:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Descent
In the 80s and 90s the use of token characters was prominent as a way of gaining cultural nods. Corporate teams were encouraged to have specific numbers of diversity candidates and hires. Let us not pretend this did not happen or exist, and Star Trek had its acceptable numbers. South Park has a black character named Token, for a reason. Today it’s referred to as virtue signaling.
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Mike W
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 5:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@booming I was not intending to attack anyone with my comments about moving along if you’re so disgruntled. I enjoy seeing positive and negative views of any series, however it’s quite disheartening to see the same cast of characters show up and bash the show week after week.

If anyone took my comments about “bitching” personally, so be it. It seems only the complainers show up here and the ones who like this show remain silent.

That being said, I enjoy most of the comments from these boards. I’ve been a follower on this site for many years, although I’ve rarely posted until recently. I look forward to more positive interactions!
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Kentac
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 3:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Jammer, thanks as always for remaining reasoned and level-headed. When you (as opposed to some others here, who listen not with their ears but with their mouth) say "It ain't Trek," you make an actual argument for why. You cited the torture and the gore and how it came off as stuff one would find in a snuff film. Your observation that attacking a specific writer is both unfair and a fool's errand has much merit to it - all the more so compared to "arguments" that attack Alex Kurtzmann. Is no one here humble or mere-mortal enough to realize that they do not know what writer, what persom, etc., is responsible for the action, dialogue, and plotting on the show, except you? Also, I have read the dreaded "critics" reviews; they are helpfully aggregated by episode on Rotten Tomatoes. One would think those critics (some of whom make their knowledge of Trek apparent because they can write with clarity) have opinions that are no better and no worse than yours or mine. There are no better or worse opinions - only better-reasoned judgments and less better-reasoned ones. Many people hatw to be reminded of this because they son't like being told dissent from them isn't necessarily "stupidity." Being a fan of Star Trek (however one defines it-either with their "I am right, you are wrong" monopolistic exclusionary definition or otherwise) does not not make one any better a worse a judge of what good drama is. It can serve to verify the "wisdom" of one's beliefs. As Roger Ebert said, "Beliefs, we need to be reminded, are beliefs precisely because they are not facts." And beliefs arent any more "true" because they fall in line with what we think a sacred cow like Godard prophesized. His films can be critcized too and I found the last twenty years' worth to be incomprehensible bores, in significant part. The level of hatred for differing opinions on this site is getting worse. In the past, someone may have made a comment about religion or race that set others off; the comment may ha e been tangentially related to an episode. The hatred now oozes out when someone merely describes an episode. Kurtzman made it, so it must be bad, QED. Once we give own opinions the status of received wisdom, there is no logical limit to how unwelcome and hostile we will be to others who dare to think differently... or to think at all. I would like to think that if people who disagreed with each other on this site, met in real life, that they could at least hold a civil conversation, their having the commonality of being Trek fans, but I'm not so sure.
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Trek noir
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 2:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Dave in MN,
I give a very reasoned, on point example of the non-subtle difference between 1980 and 2020 Star Trek, and what we are to accept over the 40 year expanse. Rather than address what I point out as the factual, flawed writing of the prior series, you make a generic subjective comment that draws on no relevant comparison to which I, or any other reader, could draw a conclusion? Just “well I think 80s Trek is better, you should too, so if you’re not suggesting that you must be instigating debate”

Dave in MN, what are any of your comments doing here? Instigating stupor?
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TrentyKaufman
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 2:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Trek has been hiding behind its "deconstructing Roddenberry!" smirk for a long time.

Now it's simply Chabon's turn.

But don't worry; these supposed "subversive tales" always pull back at the last minute. And Chabon will too. He'll trick you into thinking he's hurling mud at Roddenberry, but there's a real respect there, and a real appreciation for his political world view. Chabon will have Picard be ignored, yelled at, berated, and made to look a fool, but in his eyes he's merely testing the God with a hammer, as all things should be tested. And he will ultimately have Picard be vindicated, and be ultimately proven right.

A better artist would skip this pointless phase and go right to actually interesting writing, but navel-gazing and a kind of endless self-reflexivity is implicit in the political/artistic movement we're currently living under (and is Chabon's stock in trade). Unable to suggest new worlds, postmodernism by definition endlessly tears down. Fredric Jameson ("Postmodernity will be characterized by pastiche, parody, a distrust of grand narratives/institutions, a dearth in moral certainty, and a crisis in historicity!") and all that.

The guy you have to worry about is Kurtzman. Kurtzman is a legitimate hack. Kurtzman is going to force Picard to have a synth Baby with future Data and then beam them into the future to fight Control's AI Romulan/Vulcan hybrid armies with mushroom drive spore nannites.

*I'm reminded of Jean Luc Godard (the granddaddy of postmodernism and genre deconstruction in cinema) warning when he saw American cinema in the 1970s adopting French New Wave techniques: Americans, he prophetically said, will forget that counter-cliches are still cliches, and that capitalism will co-opt postmodernism/deconstruction for endless commodity production, under the guise of innovation.

That's what you have nu-Trek. A kind of dead-endedness masquerading as innovation. Mal pointed this out well several posts up in his tracking down of several New York Times articles.
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EpUk
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 1:20pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

I love how when this page was just open to discussion, everyone loved the episode. Then when jammer said he didnt like it, every stopped liking it.

I dont really care about “what’s trek” or not. It can be whatever it needs to be to tell good stories. Picard and Discovery are NOT good stories. They are cynical, generic sci-action cynicism that confuses darkness of tone with weight of narrative. DS9 got dark but had the courage to take a position on it. BSG was dark but allowed the narrative to make a statement about it. Picard just wants to be about MYSTERY because MYSTERY! It thinks its audience is stupid and treats you as such. Because it thinks if they just promise MYSTERY you’ll eat it up. It’s never the mystery that matters because no mystery, once revealed, will ever live up to the promise. Rather than use darkness to justify smoke and mirrors with the promise of a payoff that rarely matters, just tell smart stories that say something about living in dark times, or whatever.
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skye francis-maidstone
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:37am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Booming "patronising/sarcastic/condescending" Pretty much sums up your responses in general. Maybe you think you're funny though.

The comment above your last one literally contains "You really have to turn your brain off to defend Picard on that basis alone." So you counting must be a little off. Feel free to spend another few hours trawling through hundreds of comments and subjectively counting up one side or the other though.

Saying someone is a bitching doesn't make them a bitch (everyone does it sometimes) no more than saying someone is talking crap doesn't mean they always talk crap or ARE crap. And it's hardly an insult either way.

Since you're on wikipedia, look up "subjective".

Oops I descended to your level (sarcasm). You mostly seem to patrol these boards to pick fights due to boredom or something from what I've seen over the years hence you ignoring everything else I said and chose to try and start something.

I shall engage you no longer.

@Trek noir make a completely valid point. PIC easily better than early TNG or DS9 (it already beats VOY/ENT for me). Whether it will reach their heights - we shall see.

@Dave in MN "being provocative just for the sake of instigating debate." Nah, just a different opinion. Problem with nostalgia is people remember things to be far better than they actually were usually.
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Frank
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 10:59am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

I’ve been a StarTrek fan since the first episode of TOS, and I have to admit that the salt creature in that episode was pretty stupid. I watched all of TOS and liked most of the episodes even the bad ones. When TNG came out I remember how some of the original cast thought that how can they do ST without us. TNG started out with some pretty bad episodes the first 2 seasons but I stuck to it. I have the feeling that the same people who hated STD or STP because it wasn’t ST would have said the same comments on TNG, it wasn’t really ST. To the haters who watch these shows, why watch them at all? Also, commenters protest the swearing on the shows, yet use these same words in commenting.
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skye francis-maidstone
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 10:20am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Booming "Wha... well... mhh... you know... ... ... they started it! :D" Exactly the point I was making with "patronising/sarcastic/condescending".

@Booming @Mertov Could be true. I'm not going to just believe your point about who is more comments about the "other side". Someone can feel free to count them up for PIC if they want and prove me wrong if they really want.

And I don't see any attacks in Mike W's post at all. Telling moaning people to move along if they hate it so much is hardly attacking anyone. Obviously it's nice to read both view points but we don't really need 500 words on why the writers suck from the same people week after week.

I mean Jammer's review is nicely written even if I completely disagree with it. I mean seriously.. rating it lower than any DSC episode. Lower than " Will You Take My Hand?" My god.. Anyway, repeating myself... the world would be dull without different opinions.

Why is no one in "the middle"? I don't remember anyone saying "meh" about PIC yet? Like/Love or Hate descending into a pit of boiling bile and vitriol.
Weird.
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skye francis-maidstone
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:38am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Hank I wouldn't say it has to be new or original to be good. The Expanse manages to be fantastic without any ideas we haven't seen in sci-fi before (mysterious god-like races, alien goo, star gates).

@chrome "With a good script, this crew could easily earn a four star episode." Totally agree. Script is definitely one of the shows weakest areas.
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Mike W
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:18am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

As bad as many of you claim this series is, yet most of you will continue to flood these message boards week after week bitching. It gets old.

I’m a Trek fan since I was a child (late 80’s), and while I did find the opening scene a bit gory, it served a purpose.

I’m not sure what most of you chronic complainers expected, but Patrick Stewart stated that it’s not a sequel to TNG. This was going to be different, and it is. Is it what I wanted or expected? No, but I’ve kept an open mind and I actually ENJOY this show.

For Christ sake, voice that you hate the show, and move along to something else you hate. It gets old reading the same crappy reviews from the same unhappy folks every week.

Btw, this one gets ⭐️⭐️⭐️
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Hank
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:54am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Jammer said it best in his review: At the most basic, Star Trek NEEDS some kind of intelligence in it. Whatever you think Star Trek is or should be, THAT's the single requirement nobody should be willing to sacrifice.

Why do you think we are complaining about the gore and the violence? Because there is nothing else there to criticize! Except the bad plot, and the boring story, and, oh, thats the meat of the complaints anyways.

@A A Roi: Way to misread my post and claim all I want is nostalgia, when I intentionally mentioned NO details at all about what kind of things I want to see. I hated every single nostalgia-bait moment in modern Trek, from the Enterprise reveal in Disc to the Tribbles in Forgettable Movie 2 or 3, to the "Engage!" shenanigans in Picard. No, give me something new but recognizable.

And stop with the Deconstruction bullshit. "Deconstruction" is an analytic tool, first and foremost, and a deconstructivist story is not automatically good or interesting because it tries to examine things from a different perspective. Yet people trott this word around like it somehow excuses every creative decision made by the writers. The nitpicking we do here IS a deconstruction of Picard. A realistic look at what is implied by the things shown on screen. Does that make for an interesting story? No! It's angry rambling, most of the time (from your perspective, anyways).

And, here's the kicker: A deconstruction is by necessity NOT the the thing it deconstructs. It just resembles it, and then breaks it down. All the anti-war movies of the seventies and eighties are deconstructions of the classical Jingoist War Movie - thats why they are called "anti-war-movies." So, Star Trek is an utopia - thus, a deconstruction of Star Trek HAS TO BE not that. Thus, Anti-Trek is not Trek. Because if it WAS, it wouldn't deconstruct it. Way to prove our points ...

And again: Just because something is new and different, it isn't automatically better, just like "Old and the Same" is not automatically better. I can take a classical piece by Mozart and remove everything that made it great, like, melody and chord progression, just hacking away at the keyboard, or better yet, electric guitar, because piano is sooooooo 200 years ago, call it a deconstruction of Mozart (a destruction, really, what most so-called "deconstructions" really are), and guess what. It sounds like shit because it is shit! It's new and fresh and a bold new direction for classical music but in the end, it just isn't good, and most definitely not classical music!

"But I like it!", you say. Right, perfectly fine! Maybe it spawns a new genre of "Anti-Mozart" music! Great! Maybe it grows, and builds an identity of its own ... wonderful! But it still isn't Mozart! Just like Rock'n'Roll isn't jazz, and Pop songs aren't Heavy Metal. You can put cocain into your coffee, because like sugar, it's a white powdery substance, but that doesn't make it sugar!

And to all the people saying "Star Trek always had this and that", yeah, sure, but the dosage makes the poison! If I hit you in the face once and break your nose thats violent, but if I then proceed to kick your rips in, break your arms and legs and finish off with a kick to the crotch, I can not claim "Lol, there's no difference here!" Oh, so we had ONE cruel scene in Wrath of Khan ... Therefore, constant violence in Disc and PIC are totally the same thing. Just like giving somebody a mild concussion is the same as giving them brain damage, or shooting somebody dead and dropping a nuke killing hundreds of thousands is murder, thus equivalent.


Anyways, all of the above would be irrelevant if Picard was interesting on its own, achieved something truly remarkable, but it doesn't, it is mediocre in EVERYTHING at best. The violence isn't particularily gruesome, compared to modern TV. The action scenes are not exactly thrilling, the "philosophy" is about as sophisticated and interesting as middle school discussion, the pacing and directorial style is bog-standard modern TV, the visuals are nothing new either. The Last Jedi is one of the worst movies ever made, but it had ONE scene that was truly remarkable (even though it utterly ruined the whole worldbuilding), and that was when the Supremecy is destroyed light-speed-ramming. That was a perfect scene, truly impactful, a visual spectacle worthy of admiration. Godzilla 2014 had the Paradrop sequence, a true achievement of style and visual composition, even though the movie was so-so. Shin-Godzilla went the other direction, being a political commentary on current-day Japan, but STILL delivered on the spectacular visuals even though the movie is 90% talking and bureaucratic red tape, with a cast of maybe 40 forgettable people, intentionally filling the screen with written names, titles and legal texts to overwhelm the audience and hammer home just how impenetrable and incompetent an overblown bureaucracy is, while at the same time being an hommage to the all the Godzilla movies that came before without obvious "Remember that?" nostalgia bait.

What does Picard have? Nothing! It has a franchise name, nostalgia and political messaging. It does nothing new. It isn't boldly going anywhere. It has no distinct style, no unique story, not even unique characters. It doesn't have a single new idea! Borg? Old. Androids? Old. Refugee crisis? Old. Secret agency conspiracy? Old. Hinted at homoerotic relationship? Old in current year! Ninjas? Super old. AI Is dangerous? Jeez, the oldest sci-fi trope in the book! So, what's new here? Nothing. The only thing it has is that it's different from what was previously called "Star Trek", but that just makes it more similar to other things. Hell, one could argue that it steals the core idea of DS9, namely: The Federation is not as perfect as you think it is.

And you know, THAT wouldn't be a problem either if it just wanted to be Star Trek, but it doesn't, it WANTS to be new and fresh, it just fails at that.
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skye francis-maidstone
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:41am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@James White you really don't need to feel sorry for me for not liking the same television episodes/shows as you. What a strange sentiment.

And wow PIC seems more polarizing than the utter drek that was DSC. And how in the name of all that is holy does Jammer give pretty damn good episode less than any episode of season one of DSC? Seriously? This is the most i've ever disagreed with Jammer on any episode I think. We agreed on 95% of our DS9 scores.

People have some really wildly different views on the 2 new Star Trek's. I'll probably drag myself through season 3 of DSC.. almost becoming a hate-watch though. I probably won't come here and write 500 words on why I hate it so much though. I just don't care enough.

Anyone who says anything positive about PIC is quickly patronised and indicated to be mentally deficient. It's strangely ironic that Star Trek (which for me is about a more hopeful future where humans have grown ridiculous disputes about imaginary borders ie Brexit, Mexico walls and religious wars) has a comment board filled with some really bitter and jaded people.

PIC obviously ISN'T showing the that ALL human's have grown beyond what we are now and it's easy to slip back into old ways. For me that's more interesting that sticking Picard about a new federation ship and exploring the latest spacial anomaly complete with ticking clock and reset button. We've had many years of that already in various version. Is that actually what people want?

The writing and acting and story in general is vastly superior to DSC (both look gorgeous) but maybe people just wanted it to be season 8 of TNG or something. Man that would be boring...

I get the feeling the board would be mostly moaning regardless. That's what the internet is for.

I thought Star Trek fans were generally a bit more civil and respectful to each other too - we COULD have an actual discussion about episodes. I guess being patronising/sarcastic/condescending is cool though these days.
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Trek noir
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:02am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Here’s a thing
Best of Both Worlds, Part 1

8 people dead, 11 injured in engineering by Borg cube cutting beam in engineering section. Geordi arrives on the bridge from the turbo lift. His shirt is clean, fresh pressed. No sweat, no dirt, maybe even stopped at his quarters and popped into a fresh uniform and put on aftershave on the way to the bridge.

Picard: “how’s things in engineering Mr LaForge?”
Geordi: “under control, we left some good people down there”

I guess we don’t get to see Crusher and her triage.
We don’t get to see the bodies lining the hall, the blood, the surgeries, capable surgeons like Hawkeye and Bj and Charles working their asses off trying to save Geordi’s comrades. We don’t see other crew members lining up to donate organs or even blood.

Oh wait, we DO see Beverly minutes later, looking fine. She’s on an away team mission to the Borg cube.

We don’t get to see Picard writing out 8 letters to crew families, or 8 bodies sent out in photon torpedo cartridges with crew assembled. We don’t see any officer agonize for EVEN ONE SECOND over those 8 deaths or 11 injuries. And you think TNG had no gore? Hell it has no soul, no empathy, and no sympathy, and that is cold human psychological gore.

The problem isn’t Star Trek: Picard. The problem was the antiseptic, sterile, almost austere bullshit we were fed during the 80s and 90s that passed for entertainment. Injured people with red blush on their faces, a little black soot, walking hunched over to indicate injuries, that was the problem.
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skye francis-maidstone
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 10:29pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@james white

Nah it's an opinion. It was pretty average most of the time but the occasional really amazing episode kept me going. That and at the time most of us had 4 tv channels and therefore very little sci-fi to watch.

I still kept watching till the end although i remember i was the only remaining friend or family member watching it.

DS9 however.. was amazing 90% of the time from season 3 onwards.

There. My fully-sane and perfectly valid opinion summarized for you
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skye francis-maidstone
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 9:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Another very good, almost great episode from a thoroughly enjoyable version of Star Trek. The difference between this and the drivel in DSC is night and day.

I'd say mostly because PIC has some actual actors. Someone compared Jurati to Tilly.. ridiculous.. Alison Pill can actually act. I hope she has a chance for redemption for the murder she felt forced to commit.

Blah blah blah its not star trek. Wrath of Khan ear thingies used to make me have to look away when i watched that at the time (not to mention TMPs transporter accident - hideous) and more pointless storywise than the gore in this episode. Star Trek has always been dark. Some people have a serious case of rose tinted glasses about TNG. It wasn't THAT great. Or even good 90% of the time. PIC has managed to be at least a 7 or more out of 10 in its first 5 episodes. That's pretty good going.

I'm not sure where this light fluffy idealistic Star Trek some people were watching was because i've never seen it.

DS9 wasn't even great at all till about the end of season 3. VOY wasn't good at all until they brought in a 3rd actor (Jeri). Then then they could finally make some decent scenes with her, mulgrew and picardo. ENT was just plain dull..hence getting cancelled.

Sheesh the arrogance of the posts on here sometimes. Must be some Emmy award winning writers on here too. They can tell you exactly how a show MUST be written.

Anyway back to this episode..

Awesome work from Ryan. The scene at the end with her and Stewart was superb. Raffi is becoming more interestint by the episode as is Rios. And i didn't miss the borg cube at all.

Um.. gonna go with a 3 stars. Almost a 3.5 but picards pointless french character and the bar in general didn't really do it for me - just didn't seem futuristic (the bar not the accent).

I think they can pull off a 4 star this season. Lots of promising stuff. Just have to pull it all together.
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Patrick D
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 6:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Mal

That's an interesting read. Before we're too harsh, we should consider that there's some sense to Paramount's decision. I've read up on TNG's history, as well. TNG too was created because Paramount didn't want to pay the TOS actors huge salaries (instead they promised them the movie franchise). Thanks to that similar studio decision, we got the TNG tv series we now all love.
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Hank
Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 6:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Dom: Well, the thing with darkness is: It needs to be a trajectory. Either it gets better or it gets worse, but so far, it just stays the same. To be really effective, you start of mildly dark, then go carefully optimistic until the half-way point, and then, over the course of following episodes, slowly break down the characters we now care about and want to succeed and use that to examine them in close detail. And then you top it all off with a bittersweet but hopeful ending.

Or, dunno, you just insert violence at random points in the story. That should work just as well.
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