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Re: VOY S7: Endgame
I may have commented on this before, who knows ... but I just watched the episode, and discovered that the Borg Queen was right ... kinda sorta ...
"Captain Janeway is about to die. If she has no future, you will never exist, and nothing that you have done here today, will happen."
Assuming nothing else changes, as soon as Voyager makes it home, after only a seven-year journey, Admiral Janeway's motives for going back in time disappear, and she never does.
- Tuvok is able to get treated.
- Seven and Chakotay are able to get married.
- Be'lanna and Tom still have their child.
- The crew as it is seven years on, gets home.
But therefore there is no reason for Admiral Janeway to be angst-ridden enough to go back in time to help Voyager get home. The only way this works is if we say that besides all of the Adm. Janeway interference, that the Voyager crew could have done the deed themselves, and they simply did. The only thing Adm. Haneway contributed was the damage to the Borg, which could be bypassed ...
Just some ramble-thoughts.
Amy
I may have commented on this before, who knows ... but I just watched the episode, and discovered that the Borg Queen was right ... kinda sorta ...
"Captain Janeway is about to die. If she has no future, you will never exist, and nothing that you have done here today, will happen."
Assuming nothing else changes, as soon as Voyager makes it home, after only a seven-year journey, Admiral Janeway's motives for going back in time disappear, and she never does.
- Tuvok is able to get treated.
- Seven and Chakotay are able to get married.
- Be'lanna and Tom still have their child.
- The crew as it is seven years on, gets home.
But therefore there is no reason for Admiral Janeway to be angst-ridden enough to go back in time to help Voyager get home. The only way this works is if we say that besides all of the Adm. Janeway interference, that the Voyager crew could have done the deed themselves, and they simply did. The only thing Adm. Haneway contributed was the damage to the Borg, which could be bypassed ...
Just some ramble-thoughts.
Amy
Re: TNG S3: Menage a Troi
So Picard could rush Lwaxana back to Betazed in a few hours at Warp 9, but he coudn't rush Wesley back to Earth, which is in the same "downtown" part of the Federation?
I doubt that the Bradbury was going to rush Wesley to Earth at Warp 9 either.
Quite a bit of absurdity just to cook up a way to make Wesley an acting ensign, when you could just do it anyways because he already does ensign-like things.
So Picard could rush Lwaxana back to Betazed in a few hours at Warp 9, but he coudn't rush Wesley back to Earth, which is in the same "downtown" part of the Federation?
I doubt that the Bradbury was going to rush Wesley to Earth at Warp 9 either.
Quite a bit of absurdity just to cook up a way to make Wesley an acting ensign, when you could just do it anyways because he already does ensign-like things.
Re: DS9 S4: Broken Link
""They're everywhere" Season 3 finale was disappointingly weak. We're starting Season 5 and have progressed very little. "
I think adding Worf had something to do with it.
They did a lot of "Now that we have Worf, look at these stories we can do" episodes in Season 4, something happens again in Season 7 with Ezri.
We also had several other detours this season as well, with many episodes handed over to culture check-ins with Bajorans, Ferengi, Maquis, Trill, Cardassians, holodecking, and even the Jem Hadar.
""They're everywhere" Season 3 finale was disappointingly weak. We're starting Season 5 and have progressed very little. "
I think adding Worf had something to do with it.
They did a lot of "Now that we have Worf, look at these stories we can do" episodes in Season 4, something happens again in Season 7 with Ezri.
We also had several other detours this season as well, with many episodes handed over to culture check-ins with Bajorans, Ferengi, Maquis, Trill, Cardassians, holodecking, and even the Jem Hadar.
Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Re: Alameda...
In the 23rd century, San Francisco is still there.
The Golden Gate bridge is still there.
Something is where Alameda is now, and there isn't much reason it wouldn't be called Alameda anymore.
Uhura and Chekov spent four years attending school in San Francisco.
I 'd find it strange if someone attended four years of college in Chicago and never heard of, say, Cicero or Rosemont.
Re: Alameda...
In the 23rd century, San Francisco is still there.
The Golden Gate bridge is still there.
Something is where Alameda is now, and there isn't much reason it wouldn't be called Alameda anymore.
Uhura and Chekov spent four years attending school in San Francisco.
I 'd find it strange if someone attended four years of college in Chicago and never heard of, say, Cicero or Rosemont.
Re: TNG S6: Second Chances
If Riker was only a lieutenant eight years ago and a full commander six years ago, he must not have been a lieutenant commander very long.
And if he'd accepted his first captain offer, he'd have gone from lieutenant to captain in less than four years.
Meanwhile, Data was a Lt. Commander from the moment we first met him until the moment he perished....fifteen years later.
If Riker was only a lieutenant eight years ago and a full commander six years ago, he must not have been a lieutenant commander very long.
And if he'd accepted his first captain offer, he'd have gone from lieutenant to captain in less than four years.
Meanwhile, Data was a Lt. Commander from the moment we first met him until the moment he perished....fifteen years later.
Re: VOY S2: Resolutions
"Metaphor Monkey" is a pretty apt depiction of the visitor whose appearances were presumably intended to be random, but instead seemed more scheduled and on cue than those of the Oompa Loompas.
By the end I half expected to see the monkey appear in a "Janeway and Chakotay Do The Wild Thing" title card like the mice from Babe.
"Metaphor Monkey" is a pretty apt depiction of the visitor whose appearances were presumably intended to be random, but instead seemed more scheduled and on cue than those of the Oompa Loompas.
By the end I half expected to see the monkey appear in a "Janeway and Chakotay Do The Wild Thing" title card like the mice from Babe.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
Peter said:
"One does not earn that right through admirable behavior or values, and heaven help us if we begin to protect those we like more than those whose views we disapprove of. "
That goes both ways though.
Saying that Tuvix should triumph simply because he's the only one unwilling to sacrifice himself is equally chilling.
Tha's like a nomination process where Candidate X's supporters say "we'll only vote if our candidate is the nominee", while the supporters of all the other candidates say they'll vote for whoever the nominee is, and responding with "well that means we have to nominate Candidate X".
Peter said:
"One does not earn that right through admirable behavior or values, and heaven help us if we begin to protect those we like more than those whose views we disapprove of. "
That goes both ways though.
Saying that Tuvix should triumph simply because he's the only one unwilling to sacrifice himself is equally chilling.
Tha's like a nomination process where Candidate X's supporters say "we'll only vote if our candidate is the nominee", while the supporters of all the other candidates say they'll vote for whoever the nominee is, and responding with "well that means we have to nominate Candidate X".
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
If we go with Peter G's contention, Tuvok and Neelix were willing to die for Tuvix, but Tuvix clearly was NOT willing to die for Tuvok and Neelix.
In such a case, Tuvix is clearly at the losing end of the King Solomon test.
If we go with Peter G's contention, Tuvok and Neelix were willing to die for Tuvix, but Tuvix clearly was NOT willing to die for Tuvok and Neelix.
In such a case, Tuvix is clearly at the losing end of the King Solomon test.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
" would say it's at least worth considering that Neelix and Tuvok may consent."
If that's so, then when Janeway separated them, they'd ask to be fused again.
" would say it's at least worth considering that Neelix and Tuvok may consent."
If that's so, then when Janeway separated them, they'd ask to be fused again.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
Elliot said:
"And would Janeway have the right to murder Tuvix if Neelix and Tuvok had been combined but also *copied* by the transporter, such that there were now three fully sentient men--even though Tuvok and Neelix did not consent to his creation? No."
I'm even iffy on this scenario.
Tuvok and Neelix still also existing would change nothing as to whether Tuvok and Neelix consented to a Tuvix being created, so this scenario actually undermines the logic used to argue for the restoration of Tuvok and Neelix.
The argument to keep Tuvix in this case is that the situation is no longer zero-sum, and that therefore, ending Tuvix would come much closer to murdering an offspring. So here, I would advocate for Tuvix as well, since ruling in Tuvix's favor isn't existential for Tuvok and Neelix.
Elliot said:
"And would Janeway have the right to murder Tuvix if Neelix and Tuvok had been combined but also *copied* by the transporter, such that there were now three fully sentient men--even though Tuvok and Neelix did not consent to his creation? No."
I'm even iffy on this scenario.
Tuvok and Neelix still also existing would change nothing as to whether Tuvok and Neelix consented to a Tuvix being created, so this scenario actually undermines the logic used to argue for the restoration of Tuvok and Neelix.
The argument to keep Tuvix in this case is that the situation is no longer zero-sum, and that therefore, ending Tuvix would come much closer to murdering an offspring. So here, I would advocate for Tuvix as well, since ruling in Tuvix's favor isn't existential for Tuvok and Neelix.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
I think the "bodily autonomy" take totally rules in Tuvok and Neelix's favor too.
If a surrogate mother consents and agrees to carry a child that is entirely the genetic material of other people, but then decides she wants to keep the baby when it's born, should she get to?
Tuvix is comprised of Tuvok and Neelix's genetic material.
I think the "bodily autonomy" take totally rules in Tuvok and Neelix's favor too.
If a surrogate mother consents and agrees to carry a child that is entirely the genetic material of other people, but then decides she wants to keep the baby when it's born, should she get to?
Tuvix is comprised of Tuvok and Neelix's genetic material.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
William B said:
"Another possibility is that they were in stasis to slow the spread of the disease."
But once they were living on the planet after Voyager left, that would mean the pathogen could multiply in their bodies unchecked, and the planet would somehow prevent symptoms, even in the wake of a raging, out of control infection.
I can't see the human body working that way.
The planet's environment seemed to be presented as forestalling everything.
William B said:
"Another possibility is that they were in stasis to slow the spread of the disease."
But once they were living on the planet after Voyager left, that would mean the pathogen could multiply in their bodies unchecked, and the planet would somehow prevent symptoms, even in the wake of a raging, out of control infection.
I can't see the human body working that way.
The planet's environment seemed to be presented as forestalling everything.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
William B said:
"I don't think I agree with him here because I think there has to be some provision for the passage of time"
There is such a stigma attached to abortion, as well as a limited and vanishing number of venues for it.
What if a woman wants an abortion in Week 7, but can't get one until Week 18? Is it her fault she was pregnant for 18 weeks? Why should she be denied what she wanted 11 weeks ago because she had to wait 11 weeks for it?
William B said:
"I don't think I agree with him here because I think there has to be some provision for the passage of time"
There is such a stigma attached to abortion, as well as a limited and vanishing number of venues for it.
What if a woman wants an abortion in Week 7, but can't get one until Week 18? Is it her fault she was pregnant for 18 weeks? Why should she be denied what she wanted 11 weeks ago because she had to wait 11 weeks for it?
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
There was one weird thing about "Resolutions" that I would have saved for that page, but now it's relevant here.
**spoiler of a 23 year old show, if that's still a thing**
In Resolutions, the disease is such that they can live safely on the planet with it, but would die on Voyager.
And indeed...when Janeway and Chakotay are (seemingly) abandoned for good, they begin to make a life for themselves on the planet.
But...during the 17 days that Doc is working on a cure, Janeway and Chakotay are on the planet...and in stasis.
Why?
Why not just be on the planet, already beginning life there, just in case the Doc fails.
Because, actually, Doc DID fail. They were only saved by a Vidiian deux es machina.
The most logical reason that they were in stasis is because for that initial duration they were patients awaiting treatment.
Same goes for Tuvok and Neelix.
There was one weird thing about "Resolutions" that I would have saved for that page, but now it's relevant here.
**spoiler of a 23 year old show, if that's still a thing**
In Resolutions, the disease is such that they can live safely on the planet with it, but would die on Voyager.
And indeed...when Janeway and Chakotay are (seemingly) abandoned for good, they begin to make a life for themselves on the planet.
But...during the 17 days that Doc is working on a cure, Janeway and Chakotay are on the planet...and in stasis.
Why?
Why not just be on the planet, already beginning life there, just in case the Doc fails.
Because, actually, Doc DID fail. They were only saved by a Vidiian deux es machina.
The most logical reason that they were in stasis is because for that initial duration they were patients awaiting treatment.
Same goes for Tuvok and Neelix.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
William B said:
"How long until Tuvix had enough of a foothold to not be reversed? "
What if, as the episode touched upon, the fusion were able to be undone on the spot, or within, say half an hour? The episode itself admits that in that case, there would have been no hesitation.
Instead, it took, what...two weeks? But what if Tuvix had been put in stasis while the Doctor did his research that eventually led to the successful un-fusion?
It's not hard to imagine...we see precisely that as a key plotpoint in the VERY NEXT episode.
William B said:
"How long until Tuvix had enough of a foothold to not be reversed? "
What if, as the episode touched upon, the fusion were able to be undone on the spot, or within, say half an hour? The episode itself admits that in that case, there would have been no hesitation.
Instead, it took, what...two weeks? But what if Tuvix had been put in stasis while the Doctor did his research that eventually led to the successful un-fusion?
It's not hard to imagine...we see precisely that as a key plotpoint in the VERY NEXT episode.
Re: DS9 S4: The Quickening
"The Visitor" just came off as self-indulgent to me...a bit too proud of itself, while this episode just did its thing, and did it almost flawlessly.
I'm also not a big fan of episodes where a character is narrating the story.
"The Visitor" just came off as self-indulgent to me...a bit too proud of itself, while this episode just did its thing, and did it almost flawlessly.
I'm also not a big fan of episodes where a character is narrating the story.
Re: DS9 S4: The Quickening
I find this episode to be everything that "The Visitor" is hyped to be, but for me, just isn't.
Though a good episode, a certain triteness infests "The Visitor" throughout.
This episode is having none of it.
I find this episode to be everything that "The Visitor" is hyped to be, but for me, just isn't.
Though a good episode, a certain triteness infests "The Visitor" throughout.
This episode is having none of it.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
This line also highly disturbed me:
"There's an old axiom: The whole is never greater than the sum of its parts. I think Tuvix might be disproving that notion."
I wonder what Tuvok and Neelix would think of this...that Tuvix is greater that Tuvok and Neelix combined.
Grotesque.
This line also highly disturbed me:
"There's an old axiom: The whole is never greater than the sum of its parts. I think Tuvix might be disproving that notion."
I wonder what Tuvok and Neelix would think of this...that Tuvix is greater that Tuvok and Neelix combined.
Grotesque.
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix
Excellent review, Elliot.
Part of the beauty of it is that, from what I could tell, you dropped no breadcrumbs as to which side you were going to fall until you chose to reveal it at the end.
I completely agree with your conclusion, and as you can tell if you read my comments, I agree with your reason WHY you came to your conclusion.
Consent is everything.
Pro-choice is pro-choice. You have to own the good, the bad, and the ugly of it.
Excellent review, Elliot.
Part of the beauty of it is that, from what I could tell, you dropped no breadcrumbs as to which side you were going to fall until you chose to reveal it at the end.
I completely agree with your conclusion, and as you can tell if you read my comments, I agree with your reason WHY you came to your conclusion.
Consent is everything.
Pro-choice is pro-choice. You have to own the good, the bad, and the ugly of it.
Re: TNG S6: The Chase
In the penultimate scene, we hear Picard saying they stopped to rest and repair the engines after taxing them the "past few days"?
Anyone see how many light years they travelled in a few days based on that map of the *checks notes* entire galaxy?
Asking for a friend...on Voyager.
In the penultimate scene, we hear Picard saying they stopped to rest and repair the engines after taxing them the "past few days"?
Anyone see how many light years they travelled in a few days based on that map of the *checks notes* entire galaxy?
Asking for a friend...on Voyager.
Re: DS9 S4: To the Death
It's worth noting that Star Trek VI went a bit crazy in the other direction, implying that Starfleet is nothing BUT a military organization, with the absurd notion that peace with the Klingons would mean "mothballing Starfleet".
It's worth noting that Star Trek VI went a bit crazy in the other direction, implying that Starfleet is nothing BUT a military organization, with the absurd notion that peace with the Klingons would mean "mothballing Starfleet".
Re: DS9 S4: To the Death
Skeptical is preaching to the choir here.
I'd much prefer a future with an enlightened military rather than a subverted one.
Skeptical is preaching to the choir here.
I'd much prefer a future with an enlightened military rather than a subverted one.
Re: DS9 S4: To the Death
The writing is...noncommiittal, to say the least, on the nature of money in the Federation.
In one of the TOS films, Scotty had just "bought a boat".
The TNG crew was often playing poker, gambling with chips in a manner that seemed to indicate that there was some real financial meaning behind them. If it's just for kicks, why not bet huge all the time?
It's clear that daily life on DS9 (or at least life at Quark's) required some form of currency that Starfleet officers have access to. In the Worf/Dax wedding episode, Quark shouted "No Refunds" to O'Brien and Bashir when they were about to pig out, and again, DS9 was a den of gambling as well.
Warp drive is easy to dismiss...it's a sci-fi means to an end to ensure that technology doesn't date itself, like how they used iso- as a prefix for computer capability so as not to end up making 2370 look more low tech than 2015.
My only issue with holodecks was the ridiculous spatial liberties they took, like how two dozen real people could play a baseball game by cramming into a room ten meters square.
The writing is...noncommiittal, to say the least, on the nature of money in the Federation.
In one of the TOS films, Scotty had just "bought a boat".
The TNG crew was often playing poker, gambling with chips in a manner that seemed to indicate that there was some real financial meaning behind them. If it's just for kicks, why not bet huge all the time?
It's clear that daily life on DS9 (or at least life at Quark's) required some form of currency that Starfleet officers have access to. In the Worf/Dax wedding episode, Quark shouted "No Refunds" to O'Brien and Bashir when they were about to pig out, and again, DS9 was a den of gambling as well.
Warp drive is easy to dismiss...it's a sci-fi means to an end to ensure that technology doesn't date itself, like how they used iso- as a prefix for computer capability so as not to end up making 2370 look more low tech than 2015.
My only issue with holodecks was the ridiculous spatial liberties they took, like how two dozen real people could play a baseball game by cramming into a room ten meters square.
Re: DS9 S4: The Quickening
I don;t think this violates the Prime Directive, because this race was previously more advanced and was devastated artificially.
So Bashir's actions are more or a restoration, or to co-opt the title of another Trek episode that involved a restoration, a Tuve-fix.
I don;t think this violates the Prime Directive, because this race was previously more advanced and was devastated artificially.
So Bashir's actions are more or a restoration, or to co-opt the title of another Trek episode that involved a restoration, a Tuve-fix.
Re: DS9 S4: To the Death
The only era where we see a military contingent that is distinct from Starfleet is the Enterprise-era MACOs, and that predates the founding of the Federation.
By DS9's "Rapture" we hear the Admiral-of-the-Week mention something about "integrating Bajor's militia into Starfleet", suggesting that Starfleet is the only military game in town.
I admit that it's strange that the only military branch that would still exist is basically a navy, but I suppose in a space-faring civilization, that might make sense.
The only era where we see a military contingent that is distinct from Starfleet is the Enterprise-era MACOs, and that predates the founding of the Federation.
By DS9's "Rapture" we hear the Admiral-of-the-Week mention something about "integrating Bajor's militia into Starfleet", suggesting that Starfleet is the only military game in town.
I admit that it's strange that the only military branch that would still exist is basically a navy, but I suppose in a space-faring civilization, that might make sense.
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