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Re: MAND S2: Chapter 11: The Heiress
Many of the the Mandalorian episodes are very basic plots but this one struck me as having some really deep subtext that won't immediately be seen by most viewers.
The Mandalorian himself is basically an everyman character, a type of character that is supposed to be a stand-in for the audience itself at some level. In this episode, Mando's attitude is that he doesn't care about Bo-Katan's attempts to rebuild that Mandalorian homeworld, he is just interested in fulfilling his quest to return baby Yoda to its kind. This struck me very much as the typical casual Star Wars fan reaction to more recent Star Wars content such as the Clone Wars, Rebels, or the new movies. They don't want anything complicated, they just want to see some Storm Troopers and Tie Fighters get blown up.
It's not all that out of line with a video game player who is just following a quest because that's what they're supposed to do, not caring one bit about the plot of the story they're supposed to be following, just in it for the action. And as we've seen with Mando, he learns that not all Manalorians are religious extremists like himself (he didn't even know he was a religious extremist because it's all he's ever known) and now he's likely questioning what else he doesn't know, potentially mirroring the causal Star Wars fans asking themselves a similar question. I expect that to much of the audience of The Mandalorian, the idea that not all Mandalorians are such extremists comes as a surprise, but to viewers like myself who have seen the Clone Wars and Rebels, it's no surprise at all, in fact it was confusing to us initially because we had never seen Mandalorians have this type of attitude before.
Many of the the Mandalorian episodes are very basic plots but this one struck me as having some really deep subtext that won't immediately be seen by most viewers.
The Mandalorian himself is basically an everyman character, a type of character that is supposed to be a stand-in for the audience itself at some level. In this episode, Mando's attitude is that he doesn't care about Bo-Katan's attempts to rebuild that Mandalorian homeworld, he is just interested in fulfilling his quest to return baby Yoda to its kind. This struck me very much as the typical casual Star Wars fan reaction to more recent Star Wars content such as the Clone Wars, Rebels, or the new movies. They don't want anything complicated, they just want to see some Storm Troopers and Tie Fighters get blown up.
It's not all that out of line with a video game player who is just following a quest because that's what they're supposed to do, not caring one bit about the plot of the story they're supposed to be following, just in it for the action. And as we've seen with Mando, he learns that not all Manalorians are religious extremists like himself (he didn't even know he was a religious extremist because it's all he's ever known) and now he's likely questioning what else he doesn't know, potentially mirroring the causal Star Wars fans asking themselves a similar question. I expect that to much of the audience of The Mandalorian, the idea that not all Mandalorians are such extremists comes as a surprise, but to viewers like myself who have seen the Clone Wars and Rebels, it's no surprise at all, in fact it was confusing to us initially because we had never seen Mandalorians have this type of attitude before.
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2
"And again, the blatant plagiarism of Mass Effect 3’s story endgame that they thought no one would notice. "
Read a ton of comments here, and this was the only one I saw to reference this. I haven't played Mass Effect myself, but people who have are saying the plot of this show is heavily derivative of it, there seem to be a lot of smoking gun similarities that are hard to ignore.
Then we can look at Star Trek: Discovery and realize that many aspects of season 1 are ripped off from the computer game Tardigrades, including a number of characters that look visually similar (the characters of Michael Burnham, Paul Stamets, Hugh Culber, Sylvia Tilly), to say nothing of the use of a giant Tardigrade that can travel through space instantaneously.
It's really surprising to me that shows with the kind of budgets Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard have would need to resort to this kind of copying, it certainly isn't something I'd find indicative of high quality writing.
"And again, the blatant plagiarism of Mass Effect 3’s story endgame that they thought no one would notice. "
Read a ton of comments here, and this was the only one I saw to reference this. I haven't played Mass Effect myself, but people who have are saying the plot of this show is heavily derivative of it, there seem to be a lot of smoking gun similarities that are hard to ignore.
Then we can look at Star Trek: Discovery and realize that many aspects of season 1 are ripped off from the computer game Tardigrades, including a number of characters that look visually similar (the characters of Michael Burnham, Paul Stamets, Hugh Culber, Sylvia Tilly), to say nothing of the use of a giant Tardigrade that can travel through space instantaneously.
It's really surprising to me that shows with the kind of budgets Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard have would need to resort to this kind of copying, it certainly isn't something I'd find indicative of high quality writing.
Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
"Exegol" sounds like something my grandma puts on for pain relief..."My arthritis is acting up again...Better rub some Exegol on..."
I kept thinking of the Xtacles from Frisky Dingo, "Awesome X's team of easily distracted and remarkably inept, rocket-booted troops." (from Wikipedia). This almost made me lol in the theatre when I first heard them say "Exegol" since it sounds so similar.
"Exegol" sounds like something my grandma puts on for pain relief..."My arthritis is acting up again...Better rub some Exegol on..."
I kept thinking of the Xtacles from Frisky Dingo, "Awesome X's team of easily distracted and remarkably inept, rocket-booted troops." (from Wikipedia). This almost made me lol in the theatre when I first heard them say "Exegol" since it sounds so similar.
Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
"the rebellion sending a number of old Republic ships to destroy AT-ATs at the end of the movie"
They took the Hoth scene from the start of ESB and put it at the end of TLJ. Instead of white snow we get white sand, instead of snow speeders we get... a different kind of speeder. In both cases the Rebels/Resistance are outmatched by the Empire/First Order and they just need to delay until they can get away. Not exactly what I would call original.
"I don't recall Luke and Vader battling stormtroopers together in ESB"
"I don't seem to have any memory of the Emperor's own ship getting obliterated by a ship ramming into it at lightspeed"
These were done for the sake of eye candy and nothing more. The guards in the throne room scene could have easily looked at each other, looked at Snoke cut into pieces, then gotten down on one knee and pledged fealty to Kylo Ren and it wouldn't have changed the plot of the movie at all. All done to have a cool looking lightsaber battle.
The light speed ram is a deus ex machina way of accomplishing what ESB does with Lando's decision to throw in with the Rebellion after Darth Vader goes back on their agreement, It's a plot device to get the heroes out of the predicament they're in (captured by the Empire/First Order). I'm not going to go into why the use of deus ex machina is poor writing, suffice it to say that it's been controversial for thousands of years of literary history.
"TLJ is almost certainly the most original and unique and, in my opinion, the best of the sequal trilogy"
I consider it the worst, but really I could make a case for any one of them because they're all terrible. I suppose I dislike the TRoS the least because it's the last one and I won't have to watch anymore of them, I had incredibly low expectations going in, and some scenes made me laugh because they are completely ridiculous (horses running around on the outer hull of a Star Destroyer for example).
"the rebellion sending a number of old Republic ships to destroy AT-ATs at the end of the movie"
They took the Hoth scene from the start of ESB and put it at the end of TLJ. Instead of white snow we get white sand, instead of snow speeders we get... a different kind of speeder. In both cases the Rebels/Resistance are outmatched by the Empire/First Order and they just need to delay until they can get away. Not exactly what I would call original.
"I don't recall Luke and Vader battling stormtroopers together in ESB"
"I don't seem to have any memory of the Emperor's own ship getting obliterated by a ship ramming into it at lightspeed"
These were done for the sake of eye candy and nothing more. The guards in the throne room scene could have easily looked at each other, looked at Snoke cut into pieces, then gotten down on one knee and pledged fealty to Kylo Ren and it wouldn't have changed the plot of the movie at all. All done to have a cool looking lightsaber battle.
The light speed ram is a deus ex machina way of accomplishing what ESB does with Lando's decision to throw in with the Rebellion after Darth Vader goes back on their agreement, It's a plot device to get the heroes out of the predicament they're in (captured by the Empire/First Order). I'm not going to go into why the use of deus ex machina is poor writing, suffice it to say that it's been controversial for thousands of years of literary history.
"TLJ is almost certainly the most original and unique and, in my opinion, the best of the sequal trilogy"
I consider it the worst, but really I could make a case for any one of them because they're all terrible. I suppose I dislike the TRoS the least because it's the last one and I won't have to watch anymore of them, I had incredibly low expectations going in, and some scenes made me laugh because they are completely ridiculous (horses running around on the outer hull of a Star Destroyer for example).
Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
"I don't recall Rey being tempted to help her friends over training to be a Jedi"
She goes off to redeem Kylo instead of training with Luke and winds up helping her friends in the same way Luke does in ESB. It's just a poorly written version of ESB because at least Luke had some compelling reason to leave and it's a hard decision as he knows he's not really ready. Rey isn't losing anything here because Luke is a bitter old man who was teaching her nothing, why would the audience care that she left?
"The two movies only have the vaguest similarities and that's if you stretch the facts. "
The vaguest similarities? I already outlined the plot of both movies above and they are basically the same. Rey training with an old Jedi master = Luke training with an old Jedi master. Rey's friends being chased by the First Order = Luke's friends being chased by the Empire. Finn, Rose, and BB8 going after the hacker to stop the tracking ship = Han going to Cloud City to fix his hyperdrive (each group gets betrayed in the end by the person they trusted, DJ and Lando respectively). Rey's confrontation with Snoke+Kylo = Luke's confrontation with Darth Vader. Both learn a terrible truth about their parentage, then escape to join their friends and live to fight another day. At least at the end of ESB there's some interesting dangling plot threads with Han taken off to Jabba's palace by Boba Fett, and Luke struggling with the truth of Darth Vader's identity, the end of TLJ had many of us shrugging our shoulders and wondering what reason we had to go see the next instalment.
"And Snoke dying in TLJ is a big deal."
Snoke is not a big deal at all, his death here is a desperate attempt to come up with something as shocking as "Luke, I am your father" in ESB. It doesn't work because he's a minor character and ultimately the end of the movie is the same as ESB, Kylo tempting Rey to join him and rule the galaxy the way Vader did with Luke, and Rey refusing and escaping him to join her friends in the Resistance. The status quo doesn't really change, it's just Kylo in charge of the First Order instead of a literal Emperor Palpatine stand-in.
"I don't recall Rey being tempted to help her friends over training to be a Jedi"
She goes off to redeem Kylo instead of training with Luke and winds up helping her friends in the same way Luke does in ESB. It's just a poorly written version of ESB because at least Luke had some compelling reason to leave and it's a hard decision as he knows he's not really ready. Rey isn't losing anything here because Luke is a bitter old man who was teaching her nothing, why would the audience care that she left?
"The two movies only have the vaguest similarities and that's if you stretch the facts. "
The vaguest similarities? I already outlined the plot of both movies above and they are basically the same. Rey training with an old Jedi master = Luke training with an old Jedi master. Rey's friends being chased by the First Order = Luke's friends being chased by the Empire. Finn, Rose, and BB8 going after the hacker to stop the tracking ship = Han going to Cloud City to fix his hyperdrive (each group gets betrayed in the end by the person they trusted, DJ and Lando respectively). Rey's confrontation with Snoke+Kylo = Luke's confrontation with Darth Vader. Both learn a terrible truth about their parentage, then escape to join their friends and live to fight another day. At least at the end of ESB there's some interesting dangling plot threads with Han taken off to Jabba's palace by Boba Fett, and Luke struggling with the truth of Darth Vader's identity, the end of TLJ had many of us shrugging our shoulders and wondering what reason we had to go see the next instalment.
"And Snoke dying in TLJ is a big deal."
Snoke is not a big deal at all, his death here is a desperate attempt to come up with something as shocking as "Luke, I am your father" in ESB. It doesn't work because he's a minor character and ultimately the end of the movie is the same as ESB, Kylo tempting Rey to join him and rule the galaxy the way Vader did with Luke, and Rey refusing and escaping him to join her friends in the Resistance. The status quo doesn't really change, it's just Kylo in charge of the First Order instead of a literal Emperor Palpatine stand-in.
Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
@Chrome "TLJ is the most original piece born from the sequel series" That's not saying much given how closely TFA and TRoS hew to the OT. The basic beats of TLJ are the same as ESB:
Even after their victory destroying the Death Star/Starkiller Base our heroes are on the run from the Empire/The First Order while Luke/Rey trains with Jedi Master Yoda/Luke to become a Jedi Knight. Then Luke's/Rey's friends are in trouble and only he/she can save them but doing so puts him/her into a confrontation with Darth Vader/Snoke+Kylo from which he/she is tempted by the dark side of the force when the truth of his/her parentage is revealed but he/she makes the right choice and lives to fight another day with the Rebellion/Resistance.
@Chrome "TLJ is the most original piece born from the sequel series" That's not saying much given how closely TFA and TRoS hew to the OT. The basic beats of TLJ are the same as ESB:
Even after their victory destroying the Death Star/Starkiller Base our heroes are on the run from the Empire/The First Order while Luke/Rey trains with Jedi Master Yoda/Luke to become a Jedi Knight. Then Luke's/Rey's friends are in trouble and only he/she can save them but doing so puts him/her into a confrontation with Darth Vader/Snoke+Kylo from which he/she is tempted by the dark side of the force when the truth of his/her parentage is revealed but he/she makes the right choice and lives to fight another day with the Rebellion/Resistance.
Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
I still remember all those fans defending The Force Awakens after it came out, saying that we couldn't judge it as what it actually was (a bad copy of A New Hope) until the entire sequel trilogy was released. They were all so certain that episodes 8 and 9 would break new ground and take Star Wars in bold and exciting new directions, we just needed to be patient, they said.
Well, now that it's all over, The Last Jedi was a poor version of Empire Strikes Back with a some ideas and scenes cribbed from Return of the Jedi (the throne room scene, Rey believing that there's good in Kylo Ren), and now The Rise of Skywalker is a not so cleverly disguised copy of Return of the Jedi.
There's nothing in this trilogy as clean and understandable as "we need the Death Star plans to find a weakness so we can blow it up" or "we need to blow up the shield generator so we can attack the second Death Star". Instead we get "we need the map to Skywalker because... well no reason really because Luke is a washed up failure, why did we bother", or "we need to get the hacker so we can disable the tracking ship... oh, never mind, too late we already lost all our ships", or "we need the dagger to get the translation to get the Holocron, oh screw it I'll just use the way finder Kylo had in his ship".
I'm sure Disney isn't crying too much, they've made a ton of money off these movies and now they have a path forward for Star Wars with the success of The Mandalorian on Disney+, but it really seems to me that this was the worst case scenario for the sequel trilogy.
I still remember all those fans defending The Force Awakens after it came out, saying that we couldn't judge it as what it actually was (a bad copy of A New Hope) until the entire sequel trilogy was released. They were all so certain that episodes 8 and 9 would break new ground and take Star Wars in bold and exciting new directions, we just needed to be patient, they said.
Well, now that it's all over, The Last Jedi was a poor version of Empire Strikes Back with a some ideas and scenes cribbed from Return of the Jedi (the throne room scene, Rey believing that there's good in Kylo Ren), and now The Rise of Skywalker is a not so cleverly disguised copy of Return of the Jedi.
There's nothing in this trilogy as clean and understandable as "we need the Death Star plans to find a weakness so we can blow it up" or "we need to blow up the shield generator so we can attack the second Death Star". Instead we get "we need the map to Skywalker because... well no reason really because Luke is a washed up failure, why did we bother", or "we need to get the hacker so we can disable the tracking ship... oh, never mind, too late we already lost all our ships", or "we need the dagger to get the translation to get the Holocron, oh screw it I'll just use the way finder Kylo had in his ship".
I'm sure Disney isn't crying too much, they've made a ton of money off these movies and now they have a path forward for Star Wars with the success of The Mandalorian on Disney+, but it really seems to me that this was the worst case scenario for the sequel trilogy.
Re: DSC S2: Brother
Discovery is basically Next Generation if:
- Picard was killed after Encounter at Farpoint and Thomas Riker became captain.
- Data and Geordi were non speaking roles, with Troi completely absent.
- Worf was promoted to first office after Picard died and the fact that he was the only Klingon in Starfleet was a shoulder shrug.
- Beverly was killed off halfway through season 1.
- Wesley Crusher was an actual crew member and occasionally dropped f-bombs about how much he loves science.
- The alien from the S1 episode "Where No One Has Gone Before" was the ship's chief engineer.
- An emotionless Tasha Yar was the central character of the show and constantly saving the ship instead of Wesley Crusher.
Discovery is basically Next Generation if:
- Picard was killed after Encounter at Farpoint and Thomas Riker became captain.
- Data and Geordi were non speaking roles, with Troi completely absent.
- Worf was promoted to first office after Picard died and the fact that he was the only Klingon in Starfleet was a shoulder shrug.
- Beverly was killed off halfway through season 1.
- Wesley Crusher was an actual crew member and occasionally dropped f-bombs about how much he loves science.
- The alien from the S1 episode "Where No One Has Gone Before" was the ship's chief engineer.
- An emotionless Tasha Yar was the central character of the show and constantly saving the ship instead of Wesley Crusher.
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
The Plinkett review of Last Jedi finally dropped today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f83D18xL7VE
There are some really good points in it, not the least of which is the comparison of the structure of The Last Jedi to that of the 1978 comedy National Lampoon's Vacation. I get the sense Rian Johnson tried really hard to turn Star Wars into a comedy, something supported by the existence of some dumb comedic outtakes.
The most damning thing is an old clip of Rian Johnson talking about how he wants to make movies where 50% of the audience loves it and 50% hate it. I guess mission accomplished?
The Plinkett review of Last Jedi finally dropped today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f83D18xL7VE
There are some really good points in it, not the least of which is the comparison of the structure of The Last Jedi to that of the 1978 comedy National Lampoon's Vacation. I get the sense Rian Johnson tried really hard to turn Star Wars into a comedy, something supported by the existence of some dumb comedic outtakes.
The most damning thing is an old clip of Rian Johnson talking about how he wants to make movies where 50% of the audience loves it and 50% hate it. I guess mission accomplished?
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I don't blame Jammer for waiting until TLJ is released on disc/streaming/vod. It's a lot easier to review a movie when you can pause, replay, or just watch the movie multiple times.
I don't blame Jammer for waiting until TLJ is released on disc/streaming/vod. It's a lot easier to review a movie when you can pause, replay, or just watch the movie multiple times.
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Palpatine's plan is very simple at first - cause a trade dispute to make current Chancellor Valorum look bad and force him to resign, thus opening up the position of Chancellor for himself.
But things go wrong for Palpatine when the Jedi interfere and threaten to resolve the trade dispute, thus making Valorum actually look good (Valorum is the one who asked the Jedi to intervene). Even worse, the Trade Federation (who just want more profits) start to get cold feet once the Jedi are involved. Palpatine sends his apprentice Darth Maul to take care of the Jedi and prevent Padme from ever reaching the senate to make a request for intervention, but he fails.
Once Padme reaches the senate and makes her plea, Palpatine is forced to use his influence to stonewall the process. He then expertly manipulates Padme into turning on Valorum, a man who did what he could to help Naboo, by insinuating that he is weak and needs to be replaced. Padme reluctantly agrees with Palpatine's plan due to the time sensitive nature of her request. She is only leader of one planet but it's enough of a justification to pull in the support of many other worlds who sympathize with Naboo's plight in calling for an election, one that Palpatine winds up winning.
Ultimately Padme winds up solving her own problem with the help of the Jedi, Gungans, and and 8 year old Anakin Skywalker (sigh), but the damage is done. The outcome of TPM seems like a victory for the good guys because the Trade Federation's blockade is defeated, but it's really the beginning of Palpatine's domination over the Senate, the Republic, and eventually the Empire.
I get that not everyone is going to appreciate this aspect of TPM given its many other flaws, but unlike TFA and TLJ it's a movie with a nice plot to build future stories on top of, Palpatine's slow, steady manipulation of key players and events until he controls everything.
Now contrast this with TFA where the bad guys simply flip a switch on a planet sized murder base instantly putting themselves in the same position that it took Palpatine three movies and another 20 years of slow burn to reach. It's lazy writing just to reboot the franchise to the same point it was at circa ANH because rehashing the original Star Wars in a new movie is what would make Disney the most money after they spent $4B buying it from Lucas and needed to recover their investment as fast as possible.
Palpatine's plan is very simple at first - cause a trade dispute to make current Chancellor Valorum look bad and force him to resign, thus opening up the position of Chancellor for himself.
But things go wrong for Palpatine when the Jedi interfere and threaten to resolve the trade dispute, thus making Valorum actually look good (Valorum is the one who asked the Jedi to intervene). Even worse, the Trade Federation (who just want more profits) start to get cold feet once the Jedi are involved. Palpatine sends his apprentice Darth Maul to take care of the Jedi and prevent Padme from ever reaching the senate to make a request for intervention, but he fails.
Once Padme reaches the senate and makes her plea, Palpatine is forced to use his influence to stonewall the process. He then expertly manipulates Padme into turning on Valorum, a man who did what he could to help Naboo, by insinuating that he is weak and needs to be replaced. Padme reluctantly agrees with Palpatine's plan due to the time sensitive nature of her request. She is only leader of one planet but it's enough of a justification to pull in the support of many other worlds who sympathize with Naboo's plight in calling for an election, one that Palpatine winds up winning.
Ultimately Padme winds up solving her own problem with the help of the Jedi, Gungans, and and 8 year old Anakin Skywalker (sigh), but the damage is done. The outcome of TPM seems like a victory for the good guys because the Trade Federation's blockade is defeated, but it's really the beginning of Palpatine's domination over the Senate, the Republic, and eventually the Empire.
I get that not everyone is going to appreciate this aspect of TPM given its many other flaws, but unlike TFA and TLJ it's a movie with a nice plot to build future stories on top of, Palpatine's slow, steady manipulation of key players and events until he controls everything.
Now contrast this with TFA where the bad guys simply flip a switch on a planet sized murder base instantly putting themselves in the same position that it took Palpatine three movies and another 20 years of slow burn to reach. It's lazy writing just to reboot the franchise to the same point it was at circa ANH because rehashing the original Star Wars in a new movie is what would make Disney the most money after they spent $4B buying it from Lucas and needed to recover their investment as fast as possible.
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
And this is my huge problem with what most people like in movies. As long as the characters are interesting and well acted and there are a few legitimately funny moments the plot doesn't matter. People like TFA and TLJ more than the prequels because they like the characters of Rey, Finn, and Poe more than Anakin, Obi Wan, and Padme.
For me, plot is more important. A story about corruption in the government allowing Palpatine the opening he needs to manipulate the Trade Federation into starting a civil war that he leverages into becoming the Chancellor and eventually Emperor is compelling. It's a whole lot better than a story about a terrorist group that sprung out of thin air and apparently has the resources to build weapons a thousand times more powerful than anything the New Republic has. One of these plots seems authentic and very real world relevant while the other feels pulled from a poorly written comic book.
And this is my huge problem with what most people like in movies. As long as the characters are interesting and well acted and there are a few legitimately funny moments the plot doesn't matter. People like TFA and TLJ more than the prequels because they like the characters of Rey, Finn, and Poe more than Anakin, Obi Wan, and Padme.
For me, plot is more important. A story about corruption in the government allowing Palpatine the opening he needs to manipulate the Trade Federation into starting a civil war that he leverages into becoming the Chancellor and eventually Emperor is compelling. It's a whole lot better than a story about a terrorist group that sprung out of thin air and apparently has the resources to build weapons a thousand times more powerful than anything the New Republic has. One of these plots seems authentic and very real world relevant while the other feels pulled from a poorly written comic book.
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Phantom Menace is not a great movie, but I'm beginning to believe it has been a bit unjustly maligned for a few reasons.
1) The special effects look horrible by today's standards but were worthy of Oscar nomination at the time. They haven't aged well but people thought they were great at the time because they were ground breaking. And the space effects still look fine.
2) Some object to the political talk that begins the process of explaining how the Republic started to transform into the Empire. I suspect these are people who just want wall to wall action and are the the same ones so happy with TFA and TLJ, movies that don't spend a single minute to explain the political situation.
3) Many Star Wars fans just start frothing at the mouth when you mention Jar Jar Binks and consider Phantom Menace unwatchable just because he's in it. He's a a bad character that doesn't fulfill his purpose (comedy relief), but if you can ignore him somewhat the rest of the movie isn't as bad.
4) Midi-chlorians. Some fans hate that Lucas took away the mystery of the force and made it into a scientific thing. Yeah, it wasn't a good decision, but it's literally one brief mention used to establish that Anakin is the most powerful force user ever found. Just pretend Qui-Gon actually said something more vague like "he has the most powerful concentration of the force I've ever sensed" and you'll be fine.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather watch Phantom Menace again than either TFA or TLJ. TFA and TLJ completely ruined Han, Luke and Leia and have horrible derivative plots that seem to be leading nowhere interesting. TPM at least has a few decent moments like the Pod Race, lightsaber duels with Darth Maul, and Palpatine slowly enacting his plan for galactic domination.
Phantom Menace is not a great movie, but I'm beginning to believe it has been a bit unjustly maligned for a few reasons.
1) The special effects look horrible by today's standards but were worthy of Oscar nomination at the time. They haven't aged well but people thought they were great at the time because they were ground breaking. And the space effects still look fine.
2) Some object to the political talk that begins the process of explaining how the Republic started to transform into the Empire. I suspect these are people who just want wall to wall action and are the the same ones so happy with TFA and TLJ, movies that don't spend a single minute to explain the political situation.
3) Many Star Wars fans just start frothing at the mouth when you mention Jar Jar Binks and consider Phantom Menace unwatchable just because he's in it. He's a a bad character that doesn't fulfill his purpose (comedy relief), but if you can ignore him somewhat the rest of the movie isn't as bad.
4) Midi-chlorians. Some fans hate that Lucas took away the mystery of the force and made it into a scientific thing. Yeah, it wasn't a good decision, but it's literally one brief mention used to establish that Anakin is the most powerful force user ever found. Just pretend Qui-Gon actually said something more vague like "he has the most powerful concentration of the force I've ever sensed" and you'll be fine.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather watch Phantom Menace again than either TFA or TLJ. TFA and TLJ completely ruined Han, Luke and Leia and have horrible derivative plots that seem to be leading nowhere interesting. TPM at least has a few decent moments like the Pod Race, lightsaber duels with Darth Maul, and Palpatine slowly enacting his plan for galactic domination.
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I thought this was the worst Star Wars movie I've ever seen and that's really saying something given that I always assumed Attack of the Clones was unbeatable in this regard. A few of the things I thought were ridiculous:
- A piece of technology that somehow tracks ships though hyperspace, a plot device used just to create a terrible version of the excellent BSG episode "33". I mean, why not just jump twice or more in quick succession to prevent the First Order from using the device? Or even split your entire force in a bunch of different directions and see if the device can track everything while agreeing to meet back at a specific location if not followed? Is it a device that grants the First Order omniscience or something?
- Sublight speed chases in a world of FTL. If the Resistance really couldn't jump without being followed, why does the First Order not make a short jump ahead with some of their force and cut off the Resistance ships? Or attack with faster small ships like Tie Fighters?
- Gravity bombs in outer space.
- People using the force to communicate or even project images of themselves over intergalactic distances (zero cannon for any of this even when the Jedi Order spent thousands of years investigating what was possible with the force and apparently didn't figure it out).
- The First Order somehow knows that Finn and Rose are going to a very specific planet for the express purpose of hiring someone to help them disable a hyperspace tracking system, and decides to plant a double agent right in front of their noses instead of just having them detained there or killed. All for dramatic purpose, so Finn could have his pointless dramatic showdown with Phasma and then escape.
- An ultimate master of the dark side vastly more powerful than Kylo or Rey being killed by a lightsaber sitting next to him being turned slightly and ignited via the force.
- Leia surviving minutes in a vacuum and using the force to pull herself to safety. If Leia is so great with the force, why did she need Luke, why didn't she learn the ways of the force herself and use them to fight for the Resistance?
- The Deus Ex Machina of a light speed ship used as a super weapon battering ram that destroyed virtually an entire First Order fleet... after just letting a bunch of light speed capable ships be destroyed when they ran out of fuel. Why weren't those abandoned, then set automatically or with droids to light speed ram the First Order fleet earlier?
- The idea that a planet with a big shielded cave can somehow withstand the weapons of the First Order, a group that built a planet sized weapon fuelled by a sun that could simultaneously destroy multiple planets at interstellar distances. For that matter, why not just send an empty ship to lightspeed ram the cave because apparently that works.
- The whole Poe mutiny plot that was a severely watered down version of BSG's "Blood on the Scales" and sees him not even being given a slap on the wrist. But he learns his lesson, no more trying to perform heroic deeds for him. Han Solo is rolling in his grave.
- Luke Skywalker being responsible for the creation of Kylo Ren, then shrugging his shoulders and deciding he didn't care what he'd unleashed on the galaxy and running off to nowhere hoping to die in seclusion but leaving a map of how to get there for some reason.
- Force ghost Yoda calling lighting down from the sky and acting like crazy Yoda in ESB does before revealing he is the jedi master to Luke (shoutout to redlettermedia for pointing this out in their review).
In addition, the movie is mostly pieced together from bits of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Rey's belief she can turn Kylo and the throne room scene is ripped from ROTJ, just executed less meaningfully. The Finn/Rose plot is a rehash of ESB, just more pointless and without the quality C3PO/Han/Leia comedy and romance. The Luke/Rey scenes are a poorly done version of ESB's Luke/Yoda scenes. Horribly derivative, bad attempts at humour at moments that are supposed to be dramatic, illogical plot devices, ignoring the cannon of what has come before, this movie has it all. Absolutely terrible. I won't be paying to see another Star Wars movie that's for sure.
I thought this was the worst Star Wars movie I've ever seen and that's really saying something given that I always assumed Attack of the Clones was unbeatable in this regard. A few of the things I thought were ridiculous:
- A piece of technology that somehow tracks ships though hyperspace, a plot device used just to create a terrible version of the excellent BSG episode "33". I mean, why not just jump twice or more in quick succession to prevent the First Order from using the device? Or even split your entire force in a bunch of different directions and see if the device can track everything while agreeing to meet back at a specific location if not followed? Is it a device that grants the First Order omniscience or something?
- Sublight speed chases in a world of FTL. If the Resistance really couldn't jump without being followed, why does the First Order not make a short jump ahead with some of their force and cut off the Resistance ships? Or attack with faster small ships like Tie Fighters?
- Gravity bombs in outer space.
- People using the force to communicate or even project images of themselves over intergalactic distances (zero cannon for any of this even when the Jedi Order spent thousands of years investigating what was possible with the force and apparently didn't figure it out).
- The First Order somehow knows that Finn and Rose are going to a very specific planet for the express purpose of hiring someone to help them disable a hyperspace tracking system, and decides to plant a double agent right in front of their noses instead of just having them detained there or killed. All for dramatic purpose, so Finn could have his pointless dramatic showdown with Phasma and then escape.
- An ultimate master of the dark side vastly more powerful than Kylo or Rey being killed by a lightsaber sitting next to him being turned slightly and ignited via the force.
- Leia surviving minutes in a vacuum and using the force to pull herself to safety. If Leia is so great with the force, why did she need Luke, why didn't she learn the ways of the force herself and use them to fight for the Resistance?
- The Deus Ex Machina of a light speed ship used as a super weapon battering ram that destroyed virtually an entire First Order fleet... after just letting a bunch of light speed capable ships be destroyed when they ran out of fuel. Why weren't those abandoned, then set automatically or with droids to light speed ram the First Order fleet earlier?
- The idea that a planet with a big shielded cave can somehow withstand the weapons of the First Order, a group that built a planet sized weapon fuelled by a sun that could simultaneously destroy multiple planets at interstellar distances. For that matter, why not just send an empty ship to lightspeed ram the cave because apparently that works.
- The whole Poe mutiny plot that was a severely watered down version of BSG's "Blood on the Scales" and sees him not even being given a slap on the wrist. But he learns his lesson, no more trying to perform heroic deeds for him. Han Solo is rolling in his grave.
- Luke Skywalker being responsible for the creation of Kylo Ren, then shrugging his shoulders and deciding he didn't care what he'd unleashed on the galaxy and running off to nowhere hoping to die in seclusion but leaving a map of how to get there for some reason.
- Force ghost Yoda calling lighting down from the sky and acting like crazy Yoda in ESB does before revealing he is the jedi master to Luke (shoutout to redlettermedia for pointing this out in their review).
In addition, the movie is mostly pieced together from bits of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Rey's belief she can turn Kylo and the throne room scene is ripped from ROTJ, just executed less meaningfully. The Finn/Rose plot is a rehash of ESB, just more pointless and without the quality C3PO/Han/Leia comedy and romance. The Luke/Rey scenes are a poorly done version of ESB's Luke/Yoda scenes. Horribly derivative, bad attempts at humour at moments that are supposed to be dramatic, illogical plot devices, ignoring the cannon of what has come before, this movie has it all. Absolutely terrible. I won't be paying to see another Star Wars movie that's for sure.
Re: ORV S1: Majority Rule
I enjoyed this episode, but it did feel a bit like a missed opportunity. There is a tiny amount of discussion about the society itself but no information about how it became the way it is, something that was frequently a hallmark of classic TOS episodes.
For example, it would have been interesting if this society was once similar to ours, but decided to shift to a more direct democracy in order to combat the corruption of elected leaders. It might have led to a debate about the merits and pitfalls of both systems but maybe I'm expecting a bit too much given that this show isn't actually TNG or even TOS.
I enjoyed this episode, but it did feel a bit like a missed opportunity. There is a tiny amount of discussion about the society itself but no information about how it became the way it is, something that was frequently a hallmark of classic TOS episodes.
For example, it would have been interesting if this society was once similar to ours, but decided to shift to a more direct democracy in order to combat the corruption of elected leaders. It might have led to a debate about the merits and pitfalls of both systems but maybe I'm expecting a bit too much given that this show isn't actually TNG or even TOS.
Re: DSC S1: Lethe
They already established that they have holographic technology, so it makes sense that they would have a holodeck as well.
Let's face it, technology is made through a slow, steady, iterative process - it doesn't just magically appear in a perfect form one day. The TNG holodeck is *perfect* and there had to be earlier inferior versions that preceded it in order for it to exist. Riker was impressed by the holodeck in TNG S1 because he can't tell the difference between it and reality, the same way we would be impressed today if in Rogue One the computer generated Leia and Tarkin were completely indistinguishable from the ones in A New Hope.
They already established that they have holographic technology, so it makes sense that they would have a holodeck as well.
Let's face it, technology is made through a slow, steady, iterative process - it doesn't just magically appear in a perfect form one day. The TNG holodeck is *perfect* and there had to be earlier inferior versions that preceded it in order for it to exist. Riker was impressed by the holodeck in TNG S1 because he can't tell the difference between it and reality, the same way we would be impressed today if in Rogue One the computer generated Leia and Tarkin were completely indistinguishable from the ones in A New Hope.
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain
There was a hint at the end that something is not right with Stamets after the jump so I expect it to be the focus of at least one episode. I think he'll go insane or wind up being coopted by some outside force due to the jump experience.
After 5 episodes I am no longer sure why they called this "Discovery" when "Horror" would be a much more appropriate title. Zach Snyder gets a lot of flak for turning the DC hero universe into a dark murderverse, but what he's done is nothing compared to what's going on here. I can't imagine what Roddenberry would think if he were alive to see what his creation has been turned into.
There was a hint at the end that something is not right with Stamets after the jump so I expect it to be the focus of at least one episode. I think he'll go insane or wind up being coopted by some outside force due to the jump experience.
After 5 episodes I am no longer sure why they called this "Discovery" when "Horror" would be a much more appropriate title. Zach Snyder gets a lot of flak for turning the DC hero universe into a dark murderverse, but what he's done is nothing compared to what's going on here. I can't imagine what Roddenberry would think if he were alive to see what his creation has been turned into.
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings
"@JPaul Why is knowing the Beatles here any different than us knowing the works of Shakespeare or Bach or who Cleopatra or Julius Caesar are?
If anything, with advanced tech (we already see this), historical figures/literature/etc. are amazingly preserved for continuing consumption."
@WTBA
Expecting someone raised on Vulcan to understand a reference to an Earth rock band that had it's peak of popularity nearly 300 years in the past is pretty ridiculous, but maybe that was the point? In any case, it just seemed like one of The Orville's constant stream of 20th/21st century references inserted for no reason, probably the biggest thing I don't like about that show.
"@JPaul Why is knowing the Beatles here any different than us knowing the works of Shakespeare or Bach or who Cleopatra or Julius Caesar are?
If anything, with advanced tech (we already see this), historical figures/literature/etc. are amazingly preserved for continuing consumption."
@WTBA
Expecting someone raised on Vulcan to understand a reference to an Earth rock band that had it's peak of popularity nearly 300 years in the past is pretty ridiculous, but maybe that was the point? In any case, it just seemed like one of The Orville's constant stream of 20th/21st century references inserted for no reason, probably the biggest thing I don't like about that show.
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings
Oh, by the way, the new iPhone X has a better security system than their breathalyzer ripped from Alien Resurrection tech does.
Oh, by the way, the new iPhone X has a better security system than their breathalyzer ripped from Alien Resurrection tech does.
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings
This was one of the most bizarre episodes of "Trek" I've ever seen. I still can't understand why Michael is to blame for starting a war with the Klingons. Weirdly, even she blames herself and thinks she deserves to rot in prison for the rest of her life instead of telling everyone she meets that her idiot Captain wouldn't take her advice on how to avoid war. Georgiou even got herself killed in the attempt to capture T'Kumva - maybe instead she should have beamed over a squad of heavily armed security officers, who did she think she was, Kirk?
To continue, we have an immoral Captain of Discovery who makes Section 33 look like a bunch of schoolchildren who is working on a mutant alienesque killing machines and wacky spores that make warp drive redundant in order to kill the Klingons. Oh, and probably Genesis, but with the intent to use it as a weapon (speculation at the moment, but still).
We also get a main character who casually spouts Lewis Carroll while her life is in immediate danger, a crew member who thinks people in the 23rd century know who the Beatles and John Lennon are, and a borderline functional cadet with zero experience who gets sent on an incredibly dangerous and vital away mission.
It's like bizarro Star Trek, the exact opposite of what Roddenberry envisioned. Instead of everyone getting along in a bright future it's a nightmarish place where no one is nice to anyone. Are we sure this isn't the Mirror universe or something?
This was one of the most bizarre episodes of "Trek" I've ever seen. I still can't understand why Michael is to blame for starting a war with the Klingons. Weirdly, even she blames herself and thinks she deserves to rot in prison for the rest of her life instead of telling everyone she meets that her idiot Captain wouldn't take her advice on how to avoid war. Georgiou even got herself killed in the attempt to capture T'Kumva - maybe instead she should have beamed over a squad of heavily armed security officers, who did she think she was, Kirk?
To continue, we have an immoral Captain of Discovery who makes Section 33 look like a bunch of schoolchildren who is working on a mutant alienesque killing machines and wacky spores that make warp drive redundant in order to kill the Klingons. Oh, and probably Genesis, but with the intent to use it as a weapon (speculation at the moment, but still).
We also get a main character who casually spouts Lewis Carroll while her life is in immediate danger, a crew member who thinks people in the 23rd century know who the Beatles and John Lennon are, and a borderline functional cadet with zero experience who gets sent on an incredibly dangerous and vital away mission.
It's like bizarro Star Trek, the exact opposite of what Roddenberry envisioned. Instead of everyone getting along in a bright future it's a nightmarish place where no one is nice to anyone. Are we sure this isn't the Mirror universe or something?
Re: ORV S1: General Discussion
The interesting thing about this show is that it's a very different take on Star Trek than Discovery - no Deep Space 9 vs. Babylon 5 clash of the 90s here.
I won't be surprised if it errs on the side of too much comedy while Discovery tries to be too serious. The perfect show is likely going end up being something in between the two.
The interesting thing about this show is that it's a very different take on Star Trek than Discovery - no Deep Space 9 vs. Babylon 5 clash of the 90s here.
I won't be surprised if it errs on the side of too much comedy while Discovery tries to be too serious. The perfect show is likely going end up being something in between the two.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
So let's get this straight. They're bringing back the character of Harry Mudd for the new series and they cast 51 year old Rainn Wilson in the part.
Roger C. Carmel, the original actor was 35 when he first played Mudd and it's a prequel series so the character should be at least a little bit younger than he was on the original series. Yet they cast an actor who is 16 years older.
Insert Picard face palm image here.
So let's get this straight. They're bringing back the character of Harry Mudd for the new series and they cast 51 year old Rainn Wilson in the part.
Roger C. Carmel, the original actor was 35 when he first played Mudd and it's a prequel series so the character should be at least a little bit younger than he was on the original series. Yet they cast an actor who is 16 years older.
Insert Picard face palm image here.
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
The thing that's most concerning about TFA as a whole is where this trilogy is going in the future. It really seems that they've painted themselves into a corner somewhat, with Rey being set up as Luke Skywalker 2.0, Luke as Obi Wan/Yoda 2.0, Fin as Han Solo 2.0, BB8 as R2D2 2.0, Kylo Ren as Darth Vader 2.0 and Snoke as Palpatine 2.0. It's fairly clear what's going to happen over the course of this trilogy based on the events of the original trilogy, and it's going to be very difficult for subsequent writers/directors/producers to change direction a third of the way through.
If the next movie features jedi training scenes with Luke and Rey, Fin and the Resistance trying to escape the New Order, and some sort of familial revelation involving Rey it won't be too much of a surprise. At least in the prequels there was some sense of a new story being told, even if the execution was abysmal.
The thing that's most concerning about TFA as a whole is where this trilogy is going in the future. It really seems that they've painted themselves into a corner somewhat, with Rey being set up as Luke Skywalker 2.0, Luke as Obi Wan/Yoda 2.0, Fin as Han Solo 2.0, BB8 as R2D2 2.0, Kylo Ren as Darth Vader 2.0 and Snoke as Palpatine 2.0. It's fairly clear what's going to happen over the course of this trilogy based on the events of the original trilogy, and it's going to be very difficult for subsequent writers/directors/producers to change direction a third of the way through.
If the next movie features jedi training scenes with Luke and Rey, Fin and the Resistance trying to escape the New Order, and some sort of familial revelation involving Rey it won't be too much of a surprise. At least in the prequels there was some sense of a new story being told, even if the execution was abysmal.
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
@Chrome
They've already said they're not doing an extended edition or director's cut version of TFA. It desperately needs one though, as many have pointed out the movie doesn't take 5 minutes to explain the most basic things that are going on.
Overall, TFA is a poor version of ANH, combined with a few other throwbacks to the original trilogy. In ANH the entire movie is built around the need to destroy the Death Star, from the opening scene to the end, giving it an elegant simplicity and cohesion. In TFA, the destruction of the Starkiller Base is almost a throwaway, the bulk of the plot is built around the location of Luke Skywalker and it's never really explained why that's so important. The dumbest thing is that at the end it's revealed that BB8 only had a portion of the map and it would have been useless to the New Order without the additional piece of map contained in R2-D2.
My theory with the popularity of TFA is that it has a few legitimately funny moments, a few likeable characters (Rey, Fin, BB8, Han Solo) and a decent villain (Kylo Ren). People didn't like the prequels because there were no likeable characters, all the intended humorous moments fell flat, and there wasn't a good visible villain until halfway through Revenge of the Sith.
It's sad, but most people don't care how nonsensical, pointless, or poorly explained a plot is as long as they get to watch characters they like make funny jokes on screen.
@Chrome
They've already said they're not doing an extended edition or director's cut version of TFA. It desperately needs one though, as many have pointed out the movie doesn't take 5 minutes to explain the most basic things that are going on.
Overall, TFA is a poor version of ANH, combined with a few other throwbacks to the original trilogy. In ANH the entire movie is built around the need to destroy the Death Star, from the opening scene to the end, giving it an elegant simplicity and cohesion. In TFA, the destruction of the Starkiller Base is almost a throwaway, the bulk of the plot is built around the location of Luke Skywalker and it's never really explained why that's so important. The dumbest thing is that at the end it's revealed that BB8 only had a portion of the map and it would have been useless to the New Order without the additional piece of map contained in R2-D2.
My theory with the popularity of TFA is that it has a few legitimately funny moments, a few likeable characters (Rey, Fin, BB8, Han Solo) and a decent villain (Kylo Ren). People didn't like the prequels because there were no likeable characters, all the intended humorous moments fell flat, and there wasn't a good visible villain until halfway through Revenge of the Sith.
It's sad, but most people don't care how nonsensical, pointless, or poorly explained a plot is as long as they get to watch characters they like make funny jokes on screen.
Re: TNG S5: Cause and Effect
The message Data sends to himself is "3" because if he sent himself "1" it would be too obvious to the viewer. "1" would clearly mean 1st officer (Riker) or even the first suggestion made when Picard asks for suggestions. Either interpretation tells them to decompress the shuttle bay over using the tractor beam. They wanted the meaning of the number to be a mystery to increase interest, so that it's not obvious how the episode ends until it actually ends.
The message Data sends to himself is "3" because if he sent himself "1" it would be too obvious to the viewer. "1" would clearly mean 1st officer (Riker) or even the first suggestion made when Picard asks for suggestions. Either interpretation tells them to decompress the shuttle bay over using the tractor beam. They wanted the meaning of the number to be a mystery to increase interest, so that it's not obvious how the episode ends until it actually ends.
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