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Joshua
Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 9:43am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Author, Author

@Patrick: Continuity? In MY Star Trek?

It's unfortunate that they tend to pick and choose what is continuative and what isn't... I suppose there could have been time constraints in this instance, but surely they could have juggled the scenes a bit.
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SJU
Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 12:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Macrocosm

3 stars.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 5:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: The Trouble With Tribbles

If "City on the Edge of Forever" is the best TOS drama, then "The Trouble With Tribbles" is the best dramedy. (I say dramedy because there were dramatic stakes to the episode, which made the comedy all the better).

I think one reason the episode is so good is the characters stay true to character. They didn't have them behaving out of character just to achieve some laughs.

I think this episode is the one that cemented "Star Trek's" place as an enduring franchise. It's also the peak of the TOS to me. I don't see another episode coming up that matches it.

It's also one of the few Trek episodes or movies that puts every single minute to extraordinary use. The others:

City on the Edge of Forever
Mirror, Mirror
Doomsday Machine
The Wrath of Khan
The Undiscovered Country

+++

The Measure of a Man
Yesterday's Enterprise
Best of Both Worlds
Inner Light

+++

Duet
The Die is Cast
The Visitor
In the Pale Moonlight
The Siege of AR-558
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SJU
Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 3:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Future's End, Part II

I also wondered if it wasn't a violation of the temporal prime directive for the EMH to keep the mobile emitter. After all, Janeway now knew there was a temporal prime directive (if she didn't know before) as Braxton told her about it.
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Jason R.
Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 11:17am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Explorers

Thanks William that is a really great explanation. I wish I understood more than 1% of it but even the 1% is interesting.

Could I just ask: is this something that is a certainty, or does the hypothesis depend on a lot of speculation? I know time dilation has been proven by putting atomic clocks on airplanes but do we know for sure that it would work this way in practice? With enough energy I could literally travel 1 billion light years in less than a human lifetime from my own POV? It just seems like it can't be true.

And another question: I know getting to close to the speed of light requires ludicrous amounts of energy but is it feasible that one day we could accelerate a ship to some meaningful fraction of light speed (say 1/2 or 1/4) and would time dilation make any practical difference at that speed?

On the subject of Voyager it occurred to me that Janeway should have just accelerated to near ls, arrived at Earth 70,000 years in the future and then done the slingshot around the sun trick to go back in time. But then it occurred to me that even with antimatter she would never have had the energy to accelerate to that speed so no luck.
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Jason R.
Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 4:16am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Explorers

"If the ship accelerated to near light speed and did a circuit from Earth to the star and back, the space ship crew would experience it as a very short trip over which Earthers aged just over 20 years."

That was what I thought but I am just recently discovering this stuff as a layperson.

Correct me if I am wrong, but assuming you could get your ship to nearly light speed (dodging cosmic rays, deadly dust particles and using more energy than the entire world could produce ...) you could basically go gallivanting around the universe Traveller style touring the cosmos from end to end and come out young enough to enjoy early retirement?

(With the caveat of course that when you got home the sun would have burned out, and everyone you knew would be dust.)

But travelling at sublight you basically can (from your own point of view) do the 70,000 light year Star Trek Voyager tour more or less instantly - despite the fictional Voyager having warp drive and being able to travel faster than light!
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Jason R.
Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 6:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Explorers

"Bloody hell I didn't realise how badly I want humankind to travel to another galaxy. Seeing Sisko and son get to Cardassia made me feel way more than I thought it would."

I used to take it as a given that mankind would one day reach the stars - it comes from growing up with Trek.

But even setting aside the risk that we might be destroyed by nuclear war or climate change or economic collapse before this could be achieved, the technical challenges of reaching Alpha Centauri, just a piddling 4 light years away, are daunting to put it mildly.

Unless someone pulls a warp drive out of their rear end (which might as well be sorcery frankly) it will probably never happen. We would be lucky to build machines capable of interstellar travel. For humans to do it? Maybe impossible.

But then there was something I thought pretty remarkable - if somehow you could get a ship to a significant fraction of the speed of light (which a human could easily survive in principle) you wouldn't need a warp drive to explore the universe. From the point of view of the crew you could explore our galaxy and every galaxy within a human lifetime - at sublight speeds!

We think Trek is stranger than reality but it turns out it isn't nearly strange enough!
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Jeffrey Jakucyk
Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Distant Origin

The "trial" with Gegen and Minister Odala at the end is eerily similar to the conversation between Valery Legasov and Chairman Charkov of the KGB at the end of the Chernobyl series, which in itself is not unlike Galileo's situation, as Jammer and other commenters have pointed out.

LEGASOV
I know who I am, and I know what I've done. In a just world, I would be shot for my lies. But not for this. Not for the truth.

CHARKOV
Scientists... and your idiot obsession with reasons. When the bullet hits your skull, what will it matter why? No one's getting shot, Legasov. The whole world saw you in Vienna. It would be embarrassing to kill you now. And for what? Your testimony today will not be accepted by the State. It will not be disseminated in the press. It never happened. No, you will live-- however long you have. But not as a scientist. Not anymore. You'll keep your title and your office, but no duties, no authority, no friends. No one will talk to you. No one will listen to you. Other men-- lesser men-- will receive credit for the things you have done. Your legacy is now their legacy. You'll live long enough to see that.

[Later after asking Legasov about Scherbina's and Khomyuk's role in his testimony]

CHARKOV
You will not meet or communicate with either one of them ever again. You will not communicate with anyone about Chernobyl ever again. You will remain so immaterial to the world around you that when you finally do die, it will be exceedingly hard to tell that you ever lived at all.

LEGASOV
And if I refuse?

CHARKOV
Why worry about something that isn't going to happen?

LEGASOV
"Why worry about something that isn't going to happen." That's perfect. They should put that on our money.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 8:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Obsession

Wow -- much better than I had remembered. One of the few of TOS that I had not seen since the 1970s.

The Big Three really standout in this episode, but the supporting players and guest stars turn in strong performances as well.

The episode has a quality to it you don't see again until DS9. It's pretty dark -- in a good way.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 7:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: The Deadly Years

I must have a must higher tolerance for rapid-aging stories than the average "Trek" fan. I really liked the Next Gen rapid-aging story in season 2, and it's mostly panned.

I enjoyed this one as well, and it sure resonates with the almost 57-year-old me a lot more than the 12-year-old me.

Poor Lt. Galway. She's was treated like an afterthought. I don't know why, but her death always stuck with me as a particular sad one, and last night's viewing didn't change that.

That line about what a stupid place to put a mirror -- that's a great moment.

I had forgotten about the entire Romulan angle. Glad they had it in there.
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Jimmy
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 7:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

I can't and never will consider Discovery as ANY part of classic Star Trek canon. Probably not the Picard show,Or the Section 31 show either.I don't care what CBS or the show-runners say. Discovery is just too aesthetically and tonality different for me to reconcile it with classic Trek. They have just taken wayyyy too many liberties with aesthetics and canon. The ridiculous things for me that will never fit in for instance the R2-D2 like droids on the Enterprise hull or the Red Angel Iron Man suit . They are not era appropriate. For me these and the terrible (IMO) writing and unlikable characters are just insulting, laughable and cringe worthy . But if people like it that's absolutely fine. Everyone is different and has different opinions and tastes. I totally get it I just can't bring myself to watch it.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 2:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: The Doomsday Machine

One of the best episodes of TOS and any Trek. I keep hoping for canonical treatment of the DM again.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 2:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Metamorphosis

Wes B. -- I had the exact same thought on the Deck/Ilia probe.

I've also wondered how folks would have felt if that had been Uhura or Chapel in the shuttle dying and left behind to make sure handsome Mr. Cochrane had someone to knock boots with.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 1:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Friday's Child

Goofy costumes aside, the Capellans made for one of the more interesting one-time-visited alien races in all of Trekdom.

I think they could make a compelling villains-you-respect race in the Prime Universe set in the decades after DS9 and Voyager.

At that point, they've had a couple of centuries of being exploited for their minerals and they've decided to give up their tents and head for the stars. As a space-faring race with technology equal to the Federation, they could easily emerge as worthy rivals to the Federation, Klingons and Romulans.
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Jason R.
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 12:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Host

"Well guess what? Bev is his doctor so guess what she knows? That's right his peepee size. And then at the end of the episode that lady doesn't have one at all. Bet that makes you think huh."

Guess that explains why we never see Riker with the same woman twice. Bravo sir - you are wise indeed.
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Joe Langfitt
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 6:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Course: Oblivion

This type of conceptual plot reminds me very much of the Alternate worlds technique that has been used by more than one Science Fiction TV series. It amounts to a kind of cheap trick that points to a "road not taken" type of theme. Success depends on the quality of presentation and emotional buildup and this is enough for some people although to it kind of negates the more philosophical motive of what science fiction is about. This could have been a story about a ship striking an iceburg with all hands lost and it could be judged effective. I would cite one possible fruitful conjecture that was never even presented. If we live in a deterministic universe and if as was presented the copy crew and ship was completely like the original then would not their futures be identical. if you really play it out then there would be the dilemma of matter occupying the same space and time. This is the conveniance of the alternate universe where some sort of difference is assumed.
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Jason R.
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 12:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

"Sorry, just saw your post. You have repeatedly shown the need to insult me. Could you stop that, please."

I do tend to be a bit of a bulldog in these debates and sometimes my style is acerbic.

But I never insulted you on this thread. Not once.
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Jason R.
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 6:35am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

"To me this sounds like women, because they already leave for a while because of the pregnancy, should continue to stay at home instead of the father. If I, for some reason, misunderstood you then i sincerely apologize"

But that is not what you said and not what I objected to. You said:

""He said that there "is an obvious synergy" when the person who gets pregnant stays at home while the other person (the man) continues to work. Does this not lead to fathers *barely participating in the upbringing?*"

I placed an asterix around "barely participating in the upbringing".

"Barely" is defined as "only just, almost not".

This is the part I take issue with. I am a full time worker with my wife staying at home and I don't "barely" participate in my daughter's upbringing. Sociologist or not, that's a risible thing to say. It's ignorant.
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Jason R.
Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 12:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

"I'm not debating that breastfeeding exists even though I find your view that fathers should barely participate in the upbringing of their newborn during the first month odd."

I said that fathers should "barely participate in the upbringing of their newborn during the first month"?

Indeed, that would be an odd thing for someone to say.

"He said that there "is an obvious synergy" when the person who gets pregnant stays at home while the other person (the man) continues to work. Does this not lead to fathers barely participating in the upbringing?"

Nope.

Now I am glad you acknowledge the existence of breastfeeding. Now acknowledge that there are some very practical reasons why women choose to take the lion's share of leave in many families that are not just arbitrary cultural manifestations of sexism.

"So you would argue that an employer should have the right to fire a woman who decides to have more than one child?"

I am going to field this one since Peter was kind enough to call you out for misrepresenting me.

Peter's point was not that women should be fired for having kids and going on leave - indeed he said nothing of the kind. The point was simply that this would be burdensome for the company, which is just obvious.

Is it "unsustainable"? Depends on the resources of the company. Bigger businesses with a lot of employees can certainly afford to accept this burden more than smaller ones.

I don't think feminists even would really argue that it's a burden to have an employee going on leave constantly for year-long stints. It's self evidently so.

It's why there is such a huge push to normalize paternity leave - to take the pressure off women. Yet men just aren't going on leave, no matter how many incentives are thrown at them or how hard governments try to arm twist this into happening.

Families are continuing to make rational choices on this subject, in keeping not just with "social" expectations but biological facts, like breastfeeding and child birth.

But I will say that I do think there is a big social component to the choices families make. As of right now, it is still not socially acceptable for men to be "house husbands" in most milieu and that plays a part to be sure.

But to discount biological facts like breastfeeding is delusional.
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Jason R.
Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 5:40am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

"Having the babies and caring for them after birth are two different things men often confuse. "

I don't think anyone is "confused" about the difference between these two activities. It is just apparent that they're linked in a pretty non-trivial way. If you're a parent and your partner chose to breastfeed then it's asinine to suggest that the mother doing childcare is some arbitrary social construct.

Similarly, there is an obvious synergy in the person who is already taking time off work due to physical changes (which in some cases already led to an early leave) continuing with that leave rather than going back so that the other partner can go off on a second leave, especially if breastfeeding is taking place.

Note I am not discounting the fact that technology or other resources (breast pumps, formula, wet nurses, daycare...) can fill this gap. But that it is there and it is NOT purely socially constructed is pretty well obvious.

"One could very well make the argument that femininity is a social construct that is not beneficial to women's careers."

You're very good at making connections between social constructs (femininity) and physical realities (reduced typing efficiency) in one context, but not in others.
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Jason R.
Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 5:48am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Charlie X

Peter I'll admit I thought your hypothesis was a bit out there. But then I watched the episode last night again for the first time in a while.

I still doubt that was what they were going for with it, but I enjoyed applying your filter to the action.

Kirk's utter inability to explain to Charlie why you can't slap a woman's behind (in essence, why consent is necessary to sex or simply no-means-no) may be just "ha ha sex is awkward" but one could wonder if Kirk simply can't address the question because it has never come up for him. In his universe, no woman ever says no to him. Kirk, like Charlie, exists in a universe where his will becomes reality.

In a meta sort of way Kirk and Charlie are mirror images. Kirk is the hero, and for that sort of hero, "no" is alien, unfathomable. Charlie is what happens when heroes fall into a 'real' real world and ot ain't pretty.
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Jammer
Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Galaxy's Child

I have not. I imagine it might be a different viewing experience seen through a different lens now.
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Jammer
Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 11:41am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: Turnabout Intruder

@Springy,

I didn't say this on the DS9 thread when you got to the end of that series, but meant to: Thanks for bringing your rewatch of all these shows back here to share with us. It was fun and enlightening to hear your perspectives over the past several months!
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Joyfatis
Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:28am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Redemption, Part II

Little did we know back then but Worf's decision to spare Toral's life would come back to bite him BIG TIME.
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Joyfatis
Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 8:57am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Mind's Eye

How was Sela Tasha Yar's daughter? Yesterday's Enterprise and Redemption, part II explains that.
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