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wolfstar
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Host

I read the comment as tongue in cheek.
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Rahul
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 4:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Friday's Child

@ Sarjenka's Brother

I also liked the portrayal of the Capellans -- a fearsome tribe with strict customs. Didn't think their costumes were goofy though.

But the Capellans are not inherently villains. Only because the Klingon was interfering was there dissension in the tribe and toward the Federation. But, presumably if there are different tribes of Capellans, maybe their analogues in the 24th century could be the Kazon.

On the topic of TOS S2 villains, I think what would be more interesting and plausible (since the Capellans are a tribe and are probably between 1 and 2 millenia of being a space-faring race) is if the modern-day Romans from "Bread and Circuses" or the Nazis from "Patterns of Force" (in a few centuries) developed into space-faring races -- basically bringing fascism into the 23rd and 24th centuries. But then again, this has already largely been done with the Romulans/Klingons/Cardassians.
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Thunderchild
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 3:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Rocks and Shoals

@Startrekwatcher - I think the idea of having Dax injured was due to the fact Terry Farrell had extremely sensitive skin. Having her laid up in the cave for the majority of the episode meant she wouldn’t have to film any exterior scenes. I remembering reading that her skin condition played havoc with the filming of “Let He Who Is Without Sin”.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 2:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: The Doomsday Machine

One of the best episodes of TOS and any Trek. I keep hoping for canonical treatment of the DM again.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 2:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Metamorphosis

Wes B. -- I had the exact same thought on the Deck/Ilia probe.

I've also wondered how folks would have felt if that had been Uhura or Chapel in the shuttle dying and left behind to make sure handsome Mr. Cochrane had someone to knock boots with.
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Sarjenka's Brother
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 1:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Friday's Child

Goofy costumes aside, the Capellans made for one of the more interesting one-time-visited alien races in all of Trekdom.

I think they could make a compelling villains-you-respect race in the Prime Universe set in the decades after DS9 and Voyager.

At that point, they've had a couple of centuries of being exploited for their minerals and they've decided to give up their tents and head for the stars. As a space-faring race with technology equal to the Federation, they could easily emerge as worthy rivals to the Federation, Klingons and Romulans.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 12:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Host

^

Not like I particularly care very much (I'm no PC warrior), but I find it ironic that if commenters were making similar comments about Beverly's breast size, the condemnation here would be swift and brutal.

It's petty and sexist.
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Jason R.
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 12:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Host

"Well guess what? Bev is his doctor so guess what she knows? That's right his peepee size. And then at the end of the episode that lady doesn't have one at all. Bet that makes you think huh."

Guess that explains why we never see Riker with the same woman twice. Bravo sir - you are wise indeed.
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Kyle
Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 2:47am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Silicon Avatar

I was so glad when the entity died, I smiled as I saw Picard's face after the entity exploded, I was like "fuck you picard, fuck you and your bullshit"

Justice has been served.
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Sam Mickle
Sat, Jun 15, 2019, 1:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Host

Everyone is thinking way too hard about this episode. It was about the most simple issue that everyone seems to overlook in this episode. Penis size. Don't believe me? ok think about this. Odan must have had THE BIG ONE. So he dies right and the host swap out happens. Then oh look Riker is the new host. Well guess what? Bev is his doctor so guess what she knows? That's right his peepee size. And then at the end of the episode that lady doesn't have one at all. Bet that makes you think huh.
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Matthew Siegel
Sat, Jun 15, 2019, 1:23am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Muse

I weirdly liked this a lot, even though on its face it doesn't seem that interesting... the way it gradually became about the creative process as a whole was just engaging. Perhaps because I did not expect that to be the theme of the episode, but it's a unique and interesting theme that works here.
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Trish
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 8:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: Too Short a Season

I think many people are thinking of the anti-aging drug as a tangential subplot, but it's the whole point: Much as a person might want to "go back" to fix and/or atone for the mistakes of youth, the attempt to do so is fatal to the person they have become.

Despite bad make-up and worse acting, this episode starts looking a lot better when you reach the time of life when you have to start facing that reality.
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Joe Langfitt
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 6:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Course: Oblivion

This type of conceptual plot reminds me very much of the Alternate worlds technique that has been used by more than one Science Fiction TV series. It amounts to a kind of cheap trick that points to a "road not taken" type of theme. Success depends on the quality of presentation and emotional buildup and this is enough for some people although to it kind of negates the more philosophical motive of what science fiction is about. This could have been a story about a ship striking an iceburg with all hands lost and it could be judged effective. I would cite one possible fruitful conjecture that was never even presented. If we live in a deterministic universe and if as was presented the copy crew and ship was completely like the original then would not their futures be identical. if you really play it out then there would be the dilemma of matter occupying the same space and time. This is the conveniance of the alternate universe where some sort of difference is assumed.
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Booming
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 3:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

@ Peter G.
Yes, from a scientific standpoint that is a bad way to ask such a question and don't worry I reading this stuff for reasons unrelated to this discussion.

I posted it merely for the reason that it is from that period and contains a heartwarming message. :)
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Bobbington Mc Bob
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 3:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Heart of Stone

I think that a quick CTRL-F of the word "nog" confirms it, with 139 returns on this page: The Nog storyline was seriously impressive and in no way a second place to the A plot.

There is no way I would have predicted any emotional weight to any Nog scene, and yet his "I don't want to end up like my father" actually really got me. It was handled equally well by Sisko, who of course, was aiming for such a cathartic release all along. It was awesome to see a lightweight side character suddenly become something much deeper, and to be able to relate deeply to someone from a race whose previous gyrating, one-dimensional representations on the show have left me wanting to hit the "skip forward" button in netflix.

Though I may get shot in the head with a phaser for saying so, lately I have found myself feeling a blasphemous thought: **DS9 might actually be even better than TNG**.
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Fakery
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 2:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

I wish there would be some mechanism here for people to fork off into heir own private nattering back and forth off topic ramblings of brain-vomit and not clutter up these comment sections with irrelevance.
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Peter G.
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 2:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

@ Booming,

I appreciate the effort to find data, but the problem with questionnaires like that is they are deeply flawed. I don't think there's very much to go on based on those, although than that perhaps people don't like to think that they've made decisions for material reasons. Whether in fact they really did or didn't is not data that can be drawn from such studies. Incidentally I wasn't even making an argument about whether material considerations are the final basis of any decision. All I said above was that it seems to be relevant to people upfront (i.e., before love has any chance to develop).
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Booming
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 1:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

@Peter G.
I'm digging through giant amounts of data and just came across an interesting little data piece from a German family review made in 1968. People were asked: What were the most important reasons for choosing their partner:
Men:
Love 39%
Character 30%
material reasons 5%
same interests, healthiness, proficiency, home behavior (don't ask me how they came up with that category) 29 %
had no choice 3%

women:
Love 41%
Character 33%
material reasons 9%
same interests, healthiness, proficiency, home behavior 14%
had no choice 3%

So for more than two thirds in both genders love and character even in the 60s were the most important reasons. Multiple answers were possible. :)

(You could of course argue that social desirability has influenced the results)
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Peter G.
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 12:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

@ Booming,

"Did you meant to say falling for a guy for reasons other than his personality?"

I meant to stay that we shouldn't impugn a woman for falling for a guy for superficial reasons, or call it sexist to suggest she would. That being said, yeah, there's more than just superficial quality to Apollo here. I did mean to say portfolio, because if you ask modern women what type of man they're looking for, or peruse dating profiles, few today would admit to just 'looking fora hot guy', whereas it's quite common to say he should have a good job. Asking what a prospective date does for a living is a very standard initial inquiry, which I've sort of condensed into "portfolio".

@ Chrome,

I do sort of agree that the rapidity and manner shown is a bit goofy, but I think it's to suddenly get out in the open without wasting time what's on the table for Apollo vs Scotty. But I laughed out loud at the Bluto line. I do agree that it's sad to think that Scotty would lose out because the other is cut like a god, but on the other hand I think we *are* supposed to feel bad for Scotty. It is a simple fact that no matter how dignified, educated, or caring you are you might lose out to someone for very superficial reasons. In the performance arts this is even more true, where losing a part may very often have happened for very plastic considerations. That said, I think we're supposed to feel bad for Apollo as well, because the fact of the matter is that in the future there seems less room for simply looking good to count for much, and so Apollo, for all his immediate charm, can't win out in the end in wooing Palamas. He's the guy she goes out with first but not the guy she takes home to meet her family. So in this way I think we're supposed to feel bad for both men, when in different ways each can't compete with the other. And she is necessarily drawn to both, but for very different reasons.

I think this particular issue was actually quite prescient on the part of the show, because it's far more common now than it was in the early 60's to be able to recognize that the hunk has his way with the women initially but that they grow tired of it and move on to someone stable with a good career when they get a bit older. Especially so with the growing trend of marrying and starting families much later in life, which leaves one's 20's for 'dating' and often involves a certain type of standard for dating that is quite different from the one used for settling down. Scotty is the settling down kind of guy, who likely has to eat mud while the Apollos out there can win a girl without even doing anything, but eventually finds someone who's done with all that and wants a family. Apollo, on the other hand, has his due time to be admired for his particular gifts, but finally realizes that this adulation came with a deadline and now he's not what's in demand. The old vs new concept in this episode does still work on a society-level, where "we don't need gods like you anymore", but frankly the way it actually plays out it feels more like old vs new in terms of maturing within one's own lifetime and realizing there are better things than chasing what's only beautiful on the outside.
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Jason R.
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 12:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

"Sorry, just saw your post. You have repeatedly shown the need to insult me. Could you stop that, please."

I do tend to be a bit of a bulldog in these debates and sometimes my style is acerbic.

But I never insulted you on this thread. Not once.
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Booming
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 12:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

@ Jason R.
Sorry, just saw your post. You have repeatedly shown the need to insult me. Could you stop that, please.
I'm watching Downton Abbey, a horribly boring show but you can learn a lot about insulting people without using actual insults. For example, I think it is marvelous that your job isn't so demanding and leaves you ample time to spent with your offspring.
Here, you brutish Americans certainly can learn a lot. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvqgboWKV9E
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Chrome
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 11:44am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

The thing is, I don't have a beef with Palamas falling for him per se (hey, Andonais is an attractive guy!) it's just that the whole scene with him magically undressing her proceeding by her falling for him in minutes is extremely goofy. That may be more of a production issue than an attitude issue, though. I think we're supposed to take this episode semi-seriously but the romance is something I've seen handled better by Popeye after he knocks out Bluto.

And we could easily cut the argument both ways: is it really fair that men are considered godlike if they have chiseled mussels and speak with a booming voice? that makes me feel bad for Scotty a little. I think the episode plays both ancient gender stereotypes fairly straight.
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Booming
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 11:39am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: Who Mourns for Adonais?

@ Peter G.
Nothing wrong with falling in love head over heals with a hot guy. Does anybody really question that outside of very radical circles? I can see Chrome's point, though does Palamar fall in love every time she sees a hunky guy in a golden tablecloth?
I think the worrying part is that she falls in love immediately after being kidnapped and continues to defend him after being beaten up by him.

One could very well make the argument that it is far more sexist to portray women as only interested in the status (portfolio, doctorate) of a man. That would be just another way of being shallow. And being a god certainly trumps being a doctor. So no problem with the portfolio here. Did you meant to say falling for a guy for reasons other than his personality?

In TNG at least we had several a working mothers, including the chief medical officer.
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Ian
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 11:20am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Identity, Part II

Isaac becomes Data in "Identity, Part II". He's now an artificial life form which cut off from others of his kind. He will now need to find his own path among biological life forms. I wonder if Isaac will make changes to his appearance and behavior as a logical means to coping with his situation.

As for the Krill...I wish this was a three-part episode because I thought they were awfully quick to decide to help Earth. How did they even know that ship or probe that attacked them was even Kaylon? And after the battle when the Kaylon retreated the Krill were in an awfully good position to attack the remaining Union forces and destroy them. They seriously weren't tempted to do that?
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Ian
Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 11:06am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Identity, Part I

I just started watching season 2 and ""Identity, Part I" is probably the best episode of the series so far. At the same it illustrates the challenge of the "The Orville". It wants to be both a drama and a comedy (or maybe just amusing. Thank goodness there's no laugh track here). But "Identity, Part I" is probably at least 90% drama and it does it very well. I was thinking of the Best of Both Worlds and I'm really curious to see if the The Orville is going to make the big improvement in story-telling and character the way STTNG did in seasons 3 and 4.

Couple of things: I also expected Mercer was going to get his ship and crew out of there after discovery of the skeletons. As for the head cannons, I'm thinking maybe that was done because having weapons come from Kaylon hands or arms would have seemed too much like the Cylon Centurions from Battlestar Galactica.
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