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Hiroshi
Thu, Mar 22, 2012, 5:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Waltz

While I do agree with the notion that Dukat's appeal as a character had always been his shades of grey, that he's not always depicted as either good or bad, but that his perception of events and situations cause his actions to be interpreted as one or the other.

In his mind, he actually believes that the occupation was good for Bajor because in the long-run it's become so much stronger than it originally was. Likewise, he doesn't necessarily claim that Bajor's beliefs and culture are "stupid" or "pointless", merely "backwards" compared to the beliefs and culture of Cardassia. This is actually a mindset many modern people have of other countries and communities.

I seriously disliked how they suddenly swept aside everything they'd been working towards or striving for in earlier seasons with Dukat's development and started trying to paint him as "pure evil", going so far as to give him glowing eyes and heat lasers when he's possessed by the ... crap, can't remember what they're called, the "anti prophets". It's like they were attempting to make Dukat into "the devil".
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Hiroshi
Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 10:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Sacrifice of Angels

Perhaps it slipped my memory, but what exactly does "DEM" stand for, again?

That aside, it appears to be that you're saying "plot isn't important" or that it's "only partially important", when that couldn't be further from the truth. At the basis of ANY show, should be a good plot or premise, and I do believe DS9 had a good one when it started out.

That said, I do believe the final season (and some of the 6th) was not thought out very well and could have been done a whole lot better. However, lemme see if I can work something out based on what I remember about the episode and the show itself...

The ships the Prophets destroyed, the back-up, coming to help the Dominion/Cardassian forces were enroute via the wormhole, correct? It is the one place we know the prophets have any actual power of manipulation in. Insofar as I can remember, the "Wormhole Aliens" never actually manifested themselves beyond visions outside of it - and keep in mind that's only cause I don't remember them ever doing so - with the sole exception of that episode with the Pagh Wraith taking over Jake and Kira (which felt like a bullshit episode meant to support stuff that'd happen in season 7, although it was performed well)..

Okay, so you're saying that because the Prophets make a fleet _within the wormhole_ vanish, but don't interfere with events outside the wormhole itself, that makes them selfish hypocrites? And that cause this was the only thing Sisko could think of to win, that makes him insane and a bad person? I'm sorry if I'm not following your logic.

Yes, the whole thing was terribly written and the consequences or actions don't really measure up/balance out. But that's not the same thing as calling Sisko insane for trying to help Bajor (which in case you forgot is kind of why he was there to begin with), or saying that cause the Prophets intervened on his behalf _at a time when they actually could_ was irresponsible and thoughtless of him (or them)?

As I said, I'm just not getting where you're coming from on that part.
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Hiroshi
Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 10:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Sacrifice of Angels

@Jay

That just further compounds a reason to dislike how they handled things, really. Because they took all the development Dukat'd made over the years and chucked it out the window so he could be taken over by the "Evil Fire Monster" as Confused Matthew amusingly puts it. Dukat doesn't strike me as so stupid or naive that he'd literally believe it was Sisko who got his daughter killed, especially since this didn't even come up when they were together in the other episode later this season. If her death had led to something better for Dukat.. proper motivation, development, etc.. I wouldn't have minded so much. But it was just a pathetic way to kill her off, and Garet hardly even seemed to care despite their connection. Not unlike how Sisko didn't even SAY anything to Jadzia as she lay dying, despite their deep connection.

@Nic and Latex Zebra

If you think realistically, I'd say that it's kind of like the United States became after the last couple wars. Decreased forces, less vessels, etc. I don't think Starfleet was even truly prepared for a massive war when the Borg came around. They'd been fairly neutral during the Cardassian war with Bajor, had treaties with the Romulans and an alliance with the Klingons. There was no need for a great many ships ready for some war. After the Borg, everyone likely realized just how unprepared they'd all been and started making more warships. There WERE a good number of years between the Borg assault and the Dominion War, as evidenced by Jake's aging over the series. Don't forget each season was really supposed to have been a year.
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Hiroshi Mishima
Mon, Aug 23, 2010, 4:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Tears of the Prophets

I think, Nic, that is because the new BSG was pretty much a crappy soap-opera set in space. There was so much drama and stuff hidden behind the scenes (even the ending was vague and disappointing). They focused too much on religion and modern-day issues like rape and existential debates and such, that they didn't focus on the Science Fiction or Fantasy.

Part of what made DS9 (and to some extent Voyager) so good and sustainable over the years was that it didn't make the religion and the Prophets the MAIN focus of the series. It was a subplot, a side story that got returned to occasionally. I don't particularly think much of DS9 as a genuine Star Trek show, but more of a Babylon 9 or Stargate Atlantis style show where the focus is on the battles being fought at least in the later seasons.

DS9 also did, by far, have incredible space battles. I don't think there's anything else like it in the other Star Trek series, and not in a lot of other expansive science fiction shows, either.
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Hiroshi
Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 9:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S1: The Miniseries

Hmmm... unflinching loyalty towards the new series, bashing of the old series.. yep, I should steer clear of this section of your reviews. As someone who grew up with the old series, I was very much disappointed with the new one. The redesigns, the re-imagining, the way everyone looked like they'd fit just fine into 20th century Earth (and indeed drove a brand new vehicle that was released the same year as the show)... for me, this series was dead in the water.

I gave the first season a chance, but by the time they'd hit the whole "we're gonna rape her cause she's just a cylon anyways" put off of it entirely. Granted that wasn't in this episode, but I don't think I'm going to read the other ones, as I have a pretty good idea of what will be said.

Personally, I saw the new Battlestar Galactica as a polarization of the fans, not unlike the new Star Wars trilogy. You have one generation of fans vs the new generation of fans. I realize that both shows have their strengths and weaknesses, but where as the old BG felt ahead of its time, the new one feels like a soap opera set in space. Too many "current day" situations and issues that would crop up into the show, and plot points which just didn't feel right in a science fiction series.

To be perfectly frank, the new Battlestar Galactica simply didn't FEEL like a science fiction show.
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Hiroshi
Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 9:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Waltz

For me this was pretty much the entire opposite, and perhaps it has something to do with tastes in story writing and what I find works for me and vice versa.

I felt that stripping away Dukat's shades of grey and rendering the character in pretty stark black and white was one of the worst character directions they could have gone. Deep Space Nine was, if nothing else, never just about black and white. Everyone and everyone tended to have a shade of grey here and there. I mean even Kekfa from Final Fantasy VI, who had a very similar personality, was able to be completely stark raving mad without losing his shades of grey and personality. The new Dukat was just a pale imitation of the man I'd grown fond of as a villian. All the depth, the character, the believability... it was all taken away with this one episode. The way he "embraced" the Bajoran way while he was disguised later on was so horribly out of character for him that it was like I was watching another show that he happened to be in.

Then again, I also don't like the new Battlestar Galactica and think of it as too "soap opera"-esque in it's writing, and I know a fair number of the DS9 writers/production staff moved over there. I suppose that's not a coincedence. And it's a shame, because I genuinely liked Deep Space Nine through the first 5 seasons and most of the 6th save a few episodes...
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Hiroshi
Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 9:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Tears of the Prophets

Much like "Sacrifice of Angels", I found the death of a character who had been with the series for a while (in this case since it's beginning) to be both profoundly sad, and immensely unneeded. It isn't the fact that Terry was leaving (although would it have killed her to see the series to the end?), it was more in the way she died. It was random, contrived, and didn't even fit with stuff that happened in the episode. As someone I know once put it "the Prophets wanted Sisko to be at the station, but what would he have done?" Was he going to magically save Jadzia? Was he going to be able to stop Dukat and if so how?

Not unlike one of my big disappointments with ST:Generations (it's not science, it's _magic_), the introduction of "Demonic Dukat" felt contradictory to the Star Trek way of having much based on technology (even gods many times). To an end, as much as I found the Prophets interesting, they also felt rather convenient. And let's not forgot the big contradiction of the Admiral claiming Sisko can't be both when he JUST GOT A MEDAL for having effectively been both through the entire ordeal. It's never been an issue before, why does it conveniently become one now?

Only a handful of episodes in Season 6 truly disappointed me. Tears and Waltz were definitely among them, and only paved the way for more outlandish material to show up in the next season.. to which I'm still unhappy with their choice of "replacements" for Jadzia (who I was a big fan of), not to mention how quickly she showed up.
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Hiroshi
Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 8:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Sacrifice of Angels

What always bothers me about this episode are 2 things.

1) The timely intervention of the Prophets (and let's face it there was no other way out, the writers saw to that). It felt very contrived and convenient, as I have heard used a true "Deus Ex Machina".

2) The way everyone just glosses over Ziyal's death. I personally liked her character (although I am admittedly a romantic) and thought her occasional appearences brought more depth to the show. Not only did her passing deeply sadden me, but it also felt wasted, as events which followed seemed to treat it as if "meh, whatever." Garak didn't seem to show any particular emotion for the one person who thought the world of him. Dukat for all his sadness and distress at her death, seemed to brush it off as soon as the writers were ready for him to become a single-minded bigot in Waltz. His words of "I forgive you" to Sisko were abandoned and forgotten. It felt so pointless. And I'll be touching upon that, most likely again, when I check out the review of Tears of the Prophets...
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