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grumpy_otter
Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 6:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Faces

I learned some interesting things about this episode from listening to Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill discussing it on their podcast, "The Delta Flyers." Apparently Roxann Dawson was VERY nervous about this episode, but when she watched the episode with her mother (having not told her anything about it) her mother commented that she had done a wonderful job playing the Human B'elanna, but that the actress who had played the Klingon B'elanna had done REALLY well, lol. Dawson decided that since she'd fooled her own mother, she must have done well!




Springy, you said:

"Didn't like how human B'elanna was such an incredibly weak wimp. Really? I get that Klingons are fierce warriors and humans are much less violently aggressive, but to portray her human side as totally helpless . . . blech. Why?"

Imagine that you are, without warning, suddenly half the strength that you usually are. You are so weak you feel like fainting. Not to mentionl that you suddenly feel absolutely terrified--much more so than usual. At least, that's how I always interpreted it. I thought human B'elanna was just in shock from the change for a while--then as the episode progresses she begins to adapt a bit better.
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ArathergrumpyArtymiss
Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:05am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S1: Water

Bloody shaky camera work!!! Grrr! I was really enjoying this show until this started up - surely they weren't doing it in previous episodes? Seems quite a dated effect to me now too. Does it carry on like this all the way through? Please NO!!!

At least I can now say something positive about Discovery: the camera operators don't shake the cameras about like they've got the DTs.
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grumpy_otter
Fri, Dec 18, 2020, 5:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: The Cloud

This is an inoffensive episode, and the problems have been detailed above. I'll point out just one more error that I learned from my grandfather, who DID play pool with Willie Mosconi. At the end we are supposed to think Janeway is a pool novice, then she shows she's a shark by sinking several low balls off the break. And there's the error--veteran players refer to "low balls and high balls," not "stripes and solids," as Janeway does.
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grumpy_otter
Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 11:42am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Caretaker

I am halfway through the first episode and I am cracking up. They are funny and have great chemistry. And now I have to re-watch to see the fake sideburns, and look at Harry's feet--he inherited Brent Spiner's old shoes, lol

But what is especially funny, or sad, is when Robbie (Robert Duncan McNeill ) comments that he had forgotten that Chakotay hated Tom in the first episode and he says, "There was a lot of tension between the Star Fleet and Maquis at the beginning--it's a shame they didn't develop that."

We fans feel you, Robbie.
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grumpy_otter
Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 10:33am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Caretaker

Oh holy crap y'all--I just discovered that Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill are doing a podcast called "The Delta Flyers" --started in May--where they are going through each episode of Voyager. ACH! I'm dying!

Here's the link. I hope they are enjoyable!

https://the-delta-flyers.captivate.fm/episodes/7#showEpisodes
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grumpy_otter
Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 10:21am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

I’m on a rewatch and encountered some comments I wanted to highlight.

@Caine

You said, “To be honest, I didn't care all that much about the first 90 % of the episode - all I wanted was the emotional release of these characters finally getting home to Earth!”

I think that was my number-one problem. I WANTED that emotional release! I recall when I watched the Seabiscuit movie and loved it. In the final big race, the entire theater audience was on the edge of their seats—I could see the tension as they rode along with him as he put his heart into that race. The finish line is in sight and we hear the pounding hooves and we are getting ready to cheer out loud for his victory when suddenly . . . the director chose to cut the sound and move into slow motion, and I think there was a voiceover, too. It too ALL the momentum out of the moment and stole that emotional release from the entire audience. I could actually see it—this entire room of people all getting psyched up to cheer happily suddenly sat back with a dissatisfied sigh. That’s how this finale felt to me.

@Nick
You said, “Like returning from a long and incredible journey, the arrival back at your front door with your luggage in hand is inexorably an emotionally deflating experience.”

I don’t think that would be the case in this scenario. In this case, all most of them wanted was to return home. For most people, coming back home after a journey is disappointing because your home is dull and uneventful—but you could have gotten there at any moment. It wasn’t something denied to you for seven years as it was for the Voyager crew. I am sure some of them had become addicted to the adventure and probably headed out on deep-space journeys, but that initial moment of getting home would have been wondrous.

@Batfunk

Your said “But I think your version is not enough bittersweet. We learn with Endgame that Voyager lost a few officers, I think it's fair. My version would include the loss of the innocent Harry.”

I replied to you before but suddenly had another thought—I would have been fine with that except couldn’t they have promoted him already? That still pisses me off. (I am writing this with Voyager on in the background and Harry just said, “I didn’t notice a little box on MY chair,” lol That was in the first part of Unimatrix Zero when Tom got his pip back)



@Tim-1
You asked, “If talking to yourself is a sign of madness, then is writing on a 12 year old post similar?”

I’ve been coming to this site for 13 years, and some of the people I spoke to then are still here now. It’s a nice community. I’d been a member of the imdb community for almost that long when those assholes decided to get rid of the message boards—and I still miss it. I had conversations on there going back more than a decade. I am very glad Jammer has kept it going. I love that we can have discussions that span more than a decade. I’ve actually watched myself change my views on things over the years. It’s very cool.

@M
You said, “Doc should have been gay. Could pair him off with Barclay; would have made a great couple. Hologram-addict engineer and sentient hologram: perfect match.”

At first I knee-jerked to that with “NO! Doc should be with Seven!” and then I started to think about those two together. Holy cow, yeah—they would have been very good together. I did love Doc’ romance with Danara Pel, though, so I guess he’s actually bi, lol



@Austin
You said, “What I never understood about Voyager (and to some degree Star Trek as a whole) is why when it comes to 2 parters or 2 hr special events, they always rush the ending. You have all this time to tell a great story, but by the time you get to the end, it’s like the writers forgot they had to wrap things up. You have all that extra time, start from a compelling and interesting ending, and work your way backwards. I guess it’s kind of Stephen King-esque to write a compelling plot and have a hard time finishing it, but it does leave us with a sense of “uh, that was it?”

I recall reading something by Dean Koontz a long time ago where he was talking about how to write a good story and he was saying how when you get to the climax, you need to end it quickly—or something. He had reasons for it that I don’t recall. As an example of how NOT to do it, he mentioned Stephen King’s “The Stand,” and said that the climax happens then then King includes 50 pages of “pointless filler to get the characters home.” (paraphrasing, but that was the gist) I just laughed. To me, THAT part of “The Stand” was the most enjoyable—and it still had some dangers to face. I don’t think I would have reread that book 20 times if it hadn’t been included.

I think the Voyager writers were members of the Dean Koontz school of narrative. For those of us who love characters more than plot (for the most part) those moments are precious.



@HK Star Trek

You said one of your problems with Voyager was, “ No real stakes, day-to-day it felt like a ship in the Alpha Quadrant (think Enterprise D on TNG) and in constant touch with Starfleet/Federation.”

OMG, seriously. This has been a theme throughout. The Equinox was a MUCH more believable scenario for how being stranded so far from home would have been like. Voyager was like a floating cruise ship, constantly being replenished.

And I also agree about being in touch with the Alpha Quadrant—it was great when it happened occasionally, but the monthly messages made it boring.

---------------
This finale highlighted ALL the overall problems with Voyager. At least I can re-watch my own personal finale in my head whenever I wish.
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 9:06pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Child's Play

Icheb's parents are so disgusting and immoral that it undermines what was a good episode up to their twist. I can't stand this episode because of that.



@Lavenderchartreuse

"Why would the Borg be at all interested in a single individual on a lone ship? I thought they only bothered assimilating whole civilizations."

Well, according to one of the few Borg who has spoken, that's exactly right!

Hugh: "The Borg assimilate civilizations, not individuals."

Unfortunately, the writers don't give a damn and are happy to overturn any established position if it serves the needs of that week's paycheck.
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 8:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Ashes to Ashes

I have been thinking about the continuity problems in this episode, which otherwise would have been an enjoyable romp, and I think what upsets me the most is that it was yet another "fuck you" from the show runners. If this episode had occurred in a show that really cared about continuity and made an effort then I think we all would have been willing to forgive this one lapse. But it has been so abundantly clear that they NEVER cared and just expected the fans to suck it up that when they sat down in the room to pitch this episode I can almost hear them:

One writer who still has a little hope left: Couldn't we tie this in better with previous episodes?

The rest: Resistance is futile. Caring would be illogical. Paychecks will come.

When I watched "Year of Hell" back when it originally aired, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. It was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking, "Wow. I am so glad they finally figured out that some ongoing consequences from being stranded are GOOD things! I can't wait to see how they go onward from this terrible experience!"

And then the ending came and I picked up a book and threw it at the wall. Or the TV, I forget which. Anyway, nothing was harmed. I have never watched that episode again.

This show has my favorite collective of characters--I love almost everybody. I HATE that they didn't get a better show.

I loved the concept of this episode and thought the idea had so much potential and Kim Rhodes did a wonderful job--it just makes me angry as it (again!) represents everything that was wrong with this show.
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grumpy_otter
Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 6:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Relativity

I can't believe none above have mentioned the funniest line in the episode:

Seven: I believe you are suffering from temporal psychosis.

Braxton: Of course I am, you pedantic drone!

Gets me every time.
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grumpy_otter
Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 6:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Bliss

@Jillyenator

You said, "The beast doesn't have to be assumed mobile. Sea sponges are sessile . . . . So the warning beacons would work in this context. "

Except that right after they escape, Qatai says, "The beast is already altering course," so we know it is mobile. Beacons would be utterly useless unless they can be attached to it in some way.
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grumpy_otter
Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 4:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Gravity

@Linda

You said, "This episode was utterly intolerable due to the fact we are supposed to believe an intelligent and logical man would be attracted to a baby talking idiot woman."

I'm a woman and while I would normally agree with this critique, as with Leeloo in The Fifth Element, in this case Noss may have a childish voice, but she is clearly strong and capable and not at all idiotic. She simply is not fluent in English. So I don;t think it's fair to lump her in with the "Born Sexy Yesterday" trope we so often see presented in films. Look for the video by that title presented by Pop Culture Detective--I think you'd have to agree Noss doesn't fit the type.
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grumpy_otter
Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 10:05am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S4: Unforgettable

I love this one--it's one I will put on to have in the background fro "comfort sounds--but I can still see the flaws. There are, indeed, lots of holes in the explanation for how Kellen's species can erase things.

But I still like it--I love Virginia Madsen, I love Robert Beltran, and I thought they had good chemistry. But I also love Jeri Ryan and I didn’t buy HER relationship with Chakotay for a second. It was like the writers flipped a switch one day and said “Seven is now charming!” THAT relationship completely contradicted what we knew about her.

This one is a fun "relationship of the week," and I liked it.
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grumpy_otter
Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 6:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: The End Is the Beginning

I love how slow it is. I literally can't watch Lower Decks because it's too fast and I can't keep up, so the pace of this show is awesome.
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grumpy_otter
Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 6:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

I'm loving it! No negatives so far except that I really liked Dahj, in the brief time we spent with her, a lot more that Soji. I don't really know why--I am not analytical that way--I just preferred her personality.

But ugh--I REALLY hate the "seductive sister" personality. What kind of sick fuckers act like that?

One question--I thought money was gone and poverty eradicated, so why is Raffi living in a hovel and being jealous of Picard in his mansion of heirlooms? They really gave her a trailer in the desert for her home?
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grumpy_otter
Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 6:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

I finally got around to watching this and very much enjoyed the first episode. "Tea, Earl Grey, (sigh) decaf" got a real belly-laugh out of me for the first time in months, so that was nice.

One thing I noted that i thought suggested that this team of creators GETS IT, unlike the creators of Discovery, is how they updated the Romulans. They look very different from previous ones we've seen, but still recognizably Romulans.

I have two friends who have very limited knowledge of Star Trek (they can probably identify Spock as being the "ears dude") and they enjoyed it as well, so I don't think it's correct that a huge amount of prior knowledge is necessary to enjoy this.

I am hopeful for the rest!
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grumpy_otter
Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 8:44am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

@Batfunk

Thank you! I like yours, too. I have always been focused more on characters than plot--I just mainly wanted to see "happily ever after" for these characters I love! Wasn't thinking too much about storytelling.

(I've been off this site for over a year because of stuff, and then i come back and you wrote your comment exactly one year ago--cool! lol)
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Grumpy
Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 12:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: The Forge

Vulcan... Forge... blimey, I just got that.
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grumpy_otter
Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 2:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part II

I was watching a Jellico video on youtube and something occurred to me. I HATE when Riker says Jellico is confident and Deana says, publicly, "No he's not." I thought that was so unprofessional. Then I thought about how I would have written it . . .

Jellico, Riker, and Troi exit the conference room. As Jellico heads for the ready room, Riker speaks to Deana.

Riker: Well, he's certainly sure of himself.

Deana: Hmmm.
(follows Jellico to ready room)

Deana (to Jellico): Captain, Commander Riker says you seem very sure of yourself.

Jellico: But my Betazoid counselor can tell I'm not, right?

Deana: Yes sir. (smiles) Can I assist you?


Jellico: (Deep breath) Later maybe. Right now there's no time. Just knowing that you are there to help if needed is useful. Thank you Counselor.


Deana: Of course, sir.

Jellico: Now let's go kick some Cardassian butt.

They exit the ready room.

Imagine how much better that would have been! It would have revealed Jellico's uncertainty without making his counselor betray his confidences. (Wouldn't a Betazoid therapist be under professional guidelines not to reveal personal things learned through their empathy?)
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grumpy_otter
Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 5:07am (UTC -5)
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story

@Chrome

Oh! Well I'll be looking forward to hearing your responses to them! Apparently, where peoples' reactions to Rogue One divide is based on whether or not they connect to the characters. I did, so I love it. And it has the funniest droid of ANY movie, lol

And about the site -- It's not that it was better, just that there weren't as many active commenters, so conversations moved more slowly. But I am glad it is the way it is--it encourages me to go back and re-read old conversations, and it is fun to see replies continuing to come in to old discussions.
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 5:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

@Chrome and William B

Actually, I googled and figured out that the one I saw and thought was bloated and boring was The Dark Knight. I didn't enjoy Ledger's Joker or any of the characters, so I never bothered to watch any more in that series. So I can't speak to the quality of the prequel.

Oh, I'd forgotten that Daniel Craig did Casino Royale--the only one I've seen with him is Skyfall. Oddly--I don't think I've discussed James Bond in ages--today my grandson came over in a suit and explained that he was Bond. James Bond. He saw "Goldeneye" and got hooked, lol

But I was actually over on the Solo: A Star Wars Story board and got an inspiration, so I continued the prequel discussion there. I tagged you in my comment, Chrome. :-)

But the basic idea is that a prequel can be successful if we don't know too much about what it is prequeling. If we know too much, our expectations can be too high.
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 10:15am (UTC -5)
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story

@Chrome

So, I realized when I wrote the comment above that you hadn't commented on this review but thought you might wander over some time.

Anyway, while I'm on the topic--do y'all get notifications somewhere when someone tags you like that? I simply go back to my previous comments and then read from there to check for replies.

But I've been on Jammer's site for 12 years (WOW) and it's a lot bigger than it used to be. Used to be easy to find stuff. Now not so much.
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 10:08am (UTC -5)
Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story

@Chrome

As a continuation of our discussion of "prequels suck" from the TLJ review, I was struck by this line in Jammer's review of Solo -- "They are dutiful back-fillers of character histories we've already been told about or imagined well enough on our own."

I think that's generally the problem with prequels. I loved Rogue One, as you know, and I think part of the reason it worked so well for me is that it was based on one simple fact--we knew that the Death Star plans were in Leia's possession. Beyond that simple fact, we knew nothing. So the creators of that story were free to develop it however they wished.

I enjoyed Solo, and wouldn't mind re-watching it, but I think I agree completely with Jammer about the flaws. We know Han Solo SOOOO well that any prequel is going to be burdened with all our collective imaginings. It was okay, but nothing to write home about.

Now, "Many Bothans died to bring us this information" might make for a good prequel because that's all we know about it. I can imagine a heroic Bothan with a great back story. We never saw a Bothan in the movies, but from a google it looks like they have been depicted in other things and they look awesome.

But on the prequel topic, I am reminded of this absolutely hilarious proposal for an eventual prequel--about that guy in the tower we saw at Yavin IV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVJbmQgt2kc
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 9:09am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Wars: Attack of the Clones

@Davidw

"If only the Game of Thrones people were in charge, you might have gotten a tolerable movie out of it."

I'm sorry, your comment made me laugh and laugh. I am a fan of the books and gave up watching the TV sometime in Season 2 because I got tired of how much was left out and it just felt so flat to me therefore. Though I must admit I did enjoy the online horror after the Red Wedding. Muwhahaha--we book readers all knew it was coming!

But as the series came to a close I thought I'd check in with it again--watched bits here and there, read reviews to catch up with the direction the show had gone, and checked out the finale. And all i have to say is . . . the BELLS.

Do you still think the GoT people would have done a good job? lol

That's not a lol at you--I just think the general consensus is that they butchered the ending.
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 7:59am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

@Jason R.

I just finished answering the responses (including yours) to my recent comment on TLJ, so then had to go check up on what I'd written originally about TFA. And then I realized I never wrote a reaction to Rogue One when I first saw it because I went here and wrote THIS one (you can see above) instead, and then forgot, I guess. And then TLJ sucked all the hope out of me again.

I finally realized something--you may have noticed I am not terribly analytical, lol--I've only seen TFA once, and I didn't feel inspired to comment on it at the time. I didn't feel inspired to comment on it until after I got excited by Rogue One. Looking back more objectively, and now especially after TLJ, I see how lame TFA was. What I said above is still true, to some extent, but looking back at it more clearly, I realized that all TFA did was give me a little glimmer of hope going forward that the prequels were forgotten and we were heading in a good direction. But I had no desire to see it again (with the original Star Wars--it wasn't "Episode IV" then--I saw it 5 or 6 times in theaters) because it wasn't good. But it felt like Star Wars, so it was okay. It was actually my excitement about Rogue One that was buoying me when I wrote the comment above, lol

Anyway, you and I are of one mind on many things--Abrams included.
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grumpy_otter
Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 6:42am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

@Chrome

You mentioned Batman Begins, Casino Royale, and The Godfather II as evidence that prequels don't suck.

I think I'll trust William B. on this because (say it softly) I haven't seen Batman Begins or Casino Royale. I saw the first Batman with Christian Bale – Batman Beyond? Whatever – and found it bloated and boring. I was amazed it got all the praise it did. So I never bothered to see Batman Begins. And wasn't Casino Royale the funny one with David Niven? I am not expert in that world. But the Godfather II – Ahhhh! I think there is one crucial difference to most prequels – have you read the book? Vito's backstory was all in there already, and left out in the original Godfather for space. So they already had that very-strong script just waiting to be written.

But Wikipedia has a page called “List of Prequels” – take a look at it. There are a few gems in there—a VERY few—but for a film where the original was great, like “Dirty Dancing,” the prequel was just ugh. Maybe I should refine my definition. Maybe a prequel could be great if the original wasn't all that wonderful. But if you have a bar that high to hit, it's hard to not fail miserably. Trying to capture magic in a bottle a second time is difficult.

I won't analyze Star Trek 2009 here except to say I wish they'd come up for a different name for this new series set in space.

@Booming

“You think that Rogue one was the second best Star Wars movie.
Why?? The characters were all the bland and boring.”

I've discovered something through over a decade of participating on this site, watching people argue what the best Star Trek series are—you need characters you connect with to really love a film or series. I don't like DS9. I have tried really hard, but none of the characters clicked with me enough to carry me through episodes I don't like. I love (most of) the characters in Voyager and TNG so much that I can enjoy even weak episodes because I like those people so much.

I really like Jyn Erso. I connected with her. I liked her compatriots. And I thought that droid was hilarious. And then the story was exciting and made sense. But I can totally see how if you didn't connect with them, it would be boring.

@Chrome

“Not to mention Rogue One is a Star Wars prequel. ;-) “

Bingo! Good one—I'll give you that.

@Jason R.

“I didn't care for The Last Jedi but when people like Grumpy_Otter deride it while praising The Force Awakens, it really touches a nerve with me. Not because TLJ doesn't deserve derision, but because like so many, he has been hoodwinked from the start.”

First, grumpy_otter is a girl. But that's okay—It's kind of hard to tell with otters. Go back to what I wrote—if you could have heard my tone of voice, I wasn't really praising it. A little backstory to clarify—the prequels devastated me. I saw the original when I was a child and grew up with them, and had been looking forward eagerly to the new ones. And then . . . sigh.

So when the new ones started coming out, I didn't even bother. TFA was out for more than a year before I saw it, and I only saw it because I was on a LONG plane ride and it was one of the movies I could watch to pass the time. So I hesitantly started it and . . . it was okay. I liked Rey at the beginning, and Finn, and Poe, and loved seeing our beloved Han and Leia and Chewie and a wee bit of Luke. But it got weaker as it went on – does Rey EVER fail at ANYTHING? And have you seen Mark Hamill talk about how he thought his character should have come back? In the big snow fight, he thought he should jump in and save Rey before Kylo beat her. But oh well.

So yeah, it was far from perfect, and my “I liked it” was sort of a shrugging, offhand thing. Obviously it has flaws for days, but I thought it captured the feel of the originals, and it had enough likable characters that I felt a tentative flicker of hope for the next ones. You said it was “hollow and empty,” yeah, I can see that. It was trying so hard to be ANH that it had nothing left to be itself. But I think some blame has to be set at the feet of Johnson. As I said before, watching Mark Hamill talk about trying to warn him was heartbreaking. (btw, I agree with you completely on JJ Abrams)

@Peter G.

“I'll pick on a more innocuous part of grumpy_otter's post: You really liked Attack of the Clones better than Revenge of the Sith?”

Well, they are pretty much all horrible, but at least Clones is laughably bad and if you are drinking the scenes with the “love” story are funny. But if you ignore all that, Obi Wan's story of trying to find out about the clone army is pretty fun. I liked the water planet and fighting with Boba Fett.

ROTS made me want to rip my eyes out.
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