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Glom
Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 2:27am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Dirk

Ok, boomer.
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Glom
Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 4:13am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Oh sure. I like to make a laundry list of flaws in Skyward Sword, but I still love it.
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Glom
Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 8:30am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@OTDP

There was no sarcasm intended. I genuinely meant that Tommy should feel free to like what he likes and not feel compelled by the onslaught of negativity into meeting us with increasing criticism of the show.
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Glom
Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 7:42am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Tommy D

Sounds like you're a bit brow beaten by us haterz. As much as I find it rather bizarre in this case, like what you like.

I don't really buy Data's death wish as an allusion to that conversation with Maddox. Data was responding to Maddox's reassurance that his memories would be retained even if he mucked up. There is an "essence" to Data that would not be preserved with the memories alone and that was what Data was trying to protect. I don't think Data meant that if his memories are all that was left then that's just garbage that should be shut down.

But here, OG Data is already dead so the issue of losing his original existence is a moot point. If this whatever it is that Picard was talking to has the agency to make such decisions, then he is enough of a person to have value in his own right, even if he isn't the true Data. And it's not even just memories in this case. It is outright stated that it is his consciousness. I recommend the book "We are Legion, We are Bob" to get a much better exploration of this metaphysical issue.
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Glom
Thu, May 28, 2020, 3:36am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Booming

Nepenthe is okay. It at least is devoid of schlock elements.

But I found the attempt to characterise Soji as a teenager rather inconsistent. Her fake memories cast her as a qualified surgeon who was a key part of the team on the Borg Reclamation Project. She was an adult. She needed emotional support due to an existential crisis and being nearly murdered by her boyfriend, but characterising that as her being a teenager seemed forced and rather condescending. I get the dynamic they wanted to create between the two characters, but as with everything in this show, they don't care what sloppy mess they use to hit their goals.

Troi's description of the disease was rather funny. You culture the infected cells in a positronic matrix? So you cut out a piece of the patient's brain and put it in a technojar for a bit? That's weird. Also, is this implication that you have a living consciousness that has no body, no means of expression, trapped in a medical lab being used to culture organic tissue for eternity. That's kind of horrific.

And that makes the overall theme kind of weird. I'm sure they're going for the whole allegory of how the NHS depends on immigration and policies based on xenophobia will be a disaster for our health, but this particular allegory makes the relationship come of a rather exploitative. It's fine if you want to do something about exploitation, but this relationship is portrayed as a positive in this show. Oh look, another accidental far right message.
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Glom
Tue, May 26, 2020, 8:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@James White

I agree with just letting Star Trek go. I still have the entirety of TOS and the decent movies on bluray. The other series are on Netflix. Prior to the reboot, I felt there was more than enough material that I didn't need more Trek for the sake of more Trek. Some say we should be happy that at least there's finally new Trek on TV, but I disagree. There was already enough for me to not just accept any old slop.

I intend to not bother with this from now on. Discovery s1 of course I gave a chance because it was the first Trek in over a decade. In fact, I gave it a lot of benefit of the doubt. Discovery s2 I gave a chance because at least give the show a season to find its footing. Picard s1 of course I checked out because it was the return of iconic stuff. But that's enough giving it a chance for me. Sure the failure of Picard was fascinating, but one gripping train wreck is enough. And Discovery was a dull failure so total snoozage at watching s3.

The best thing I can do is send a message, however small, by not adding to the click stats. The problem is that a cottage industry has arisen where every person and their dog make their livings out of hate watching things and ranting about it on YouTube. So I fear CBS won't suffer all that much. They'll still have their subs. They'll mostly be Youtubers watching it so they can post videos about how awful it is. And so CBS will think they have a successful model on their hands and Alex Kurtzmann will look vindicated. Kurtzmann? More like Kurtzgehirn.

@Booming

Mere triffles. Gender is the easy bit. I particularly like the gender balance of flatware, die Gabel, das Messer, der Löffel.

But have you seen Dutch word order?

German is probably the easiest language I've tried. At least your spelling is way more consistent than the dog's dinner that is English.
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Glom
Tue, May 26, 2020, 5:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Dark is German? Would it be good for someone trying to learn German?
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Glom
Mon, May 25, 2020, 4:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I agree this site generally has a higher standard of discussion than most. In particular, it is refreshing to not have the usual manbaby types complaining about how there are SJW's under their beds.
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Glom
Wed, May 20, 2020, 4:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Booming.

Plinkett isn't their best output. Best of the Worst is my favourite though the episodes lately have started to get a bit too long and have a bit too much Macaulay Culkin. While the Plinkett reviews got RLM noticed and they, particularly the SW prequels (although the Nadine stuff was a bit niche taste to be sure), contain lots of good stuff, they paved the way for better stuff. I would prefer they did more commentary tracks. They still haven't done a Star Trek movie.

@othdp

It was kind of weird the way Jammer gave this episode a pass. He flat out stated that the synth stuff and the other C plots was also essentially just filler and "dumb as rocks" to boot, and yet three minutes of somewhat affecting scenes is enough to pretend the show runners hadn't been wasting 90% of the time they asked us to put into this. To paraphase Kira, those three minutes "must have been some kiss."

Speaking of wasting time, we have probably spent more time discussing and thinking about this show than actually watching it. But then, it is a train wreck of such massive proportions, it is fascinating. From the unintentional far right messages, to the incoherent plotting, to the baffling stylistic choices, to the sheer chutzpah of using so many hackneyed tropes (blue laser into the sky?). Unlike Discovery that fails in a dull way, this fails in a spectacular way. It's like The Room of Star Trek.
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Glom
Tue, May 19, 2020, 9:06am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Not Plinkett's best work. A bit meandering. But then, to reference the late great Confused Matthew, maybe he refused to be more coherent than the show.

His bullet points should have been.
1. Star Trek makes America great again. A piece about how the show botched it messages so badly, it ended up taking Trump's side.
2. Star Trek: Picard? Section about how the main story is not a story about Picard, he is merely a participant and even then sometimes very much a supporting character. This is also a good time to address the structural problem with the storytelling that by showing us plot from all angles, it detaches us from things. We're observing the story likes gods on Mt Olympus, rather than experiencing it if the narrative was framed through a viewpoint character.
3. Everything is nothing. Addressing how they just throw all sorts of nonsense at the screen leading to padding and plotlines that go nowhere. Borg, Romulan refugee situation, Elnor, Raffi's problems, Rios's contrived backstory, all pointless.
4. Feel, don't think. This is where he lists the supermassive plot holes but frames them in terms of their purpose, which is moments of pathos at the expense of coherence. Why is Soji is a sleeper? Doesn't matter. Her journey of self-discovery is so emotional. Also, point out how the Data and Picard deaths are very much in this mold.
5. Chateau Picard, made from the finest memberberries. Address the shallowness of the fan service. The manipulative nonsense of the Data stuff, Riker's cavalry cameo.
6. A vision of the future. Here is where he can get into the darker take on the Trek setting. Also, discuss the missed opportunity of having the story be about the Federatiom finding its way again, rather than just bringing up that the Federation sucks now and just forgetting about it halfway through the season.

I think that would cover it.
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Glom
Sat, May 16, 2020, 1:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Booming

I'm the same. This is the most promising because Anson Mount was great, but I also heard they're bringing a young too Kirk into it. I just rewatched 'The Menagerie' to check (fine episode) and Kirk had met Pike at an event once. So there's no seed to explore. It's just retconning for the purposes of fanservice. So that automatically puts me off. I really hate fanservice. It makes me feel patronised and demeaned.

But I'm just worn out by all this Star Trek. They have in the works more TV shows that the first 50 years combined. Now I know how Star Wars fans feel. I've just lost interest.
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Glom
Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 7:03am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Chrome

"I can't think of any encounter in DS9 that's comparable to TWOK or TUC. I can't put my finger on it, but at some point they really did stop scripting the Trek battles like naval battles."

'Starship Down', the opening of 'Favor the Bold' (though technically a war crime), 'Paradise Lost'
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Glom
Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 8:58am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Now we know why there was a Re:View for the last two episodes.

At first I worried it was external factors delaying. Have we seen Rich Evans since the last Picard Re:View? He is likely at high risk from the pandemic.

It may still be the case. Mike and everyone can probably work individually on a Plinkett review better than their other shows.
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Glom
Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 5:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Dom

It's trying to say, "Remember stuff you like? Here's stuff that references it. Aren't you happy, you dribbling nerd idiots?"

Yeah, I didn't care much for the movie.

@Cody B

Indeed. Let's remember that 'Ties of Blood and Water' was followed by 'Ferengi Love Songs'. 'The High Ground' was followed by 'Déjà Q'. 'The Mind's Eye' was followed by 'In Theory'.

I think we forget how much variety contributed to those older shows.
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Glom
Thu, Apr 9, 2020, 3:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Booming

But Riker gets to break of out of his domestic box with his CMOA at the end (even though it was ridiculous).
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Glom
Thu, Apr 9, 2020, 1:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Dexter Morgan

How true. Every female character is either broken (Raffi, Jurati, Seven) or evil (Clancy, Oh, Narissa). A portrayal of female empowerment this is not. Troi's okay, but then the focus for her character is being a mother and housewife.

When we combine that with its broken aesops that if you fear those who are different are dangerous then you're probably right, and it's good to help someone in need as long as you find out she is the family of a close friend, and you have Star Trek at the most right wing it's ever been.

When SPS said this show would be tackling the issues surrounding Trump, I didn't think that meant taking his side. Now that's a plot twist!
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Glom
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 10:43am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@doritera

(I wonder if people who assured us Season 1 would end with an intergalactic synth apocalypse, can admit to themselves their prediction was wrong? Don't bet on it).

Erm, it did end with intergalactic synth apocalypse. That's what those things that were a cross between Matrix sentinels and the flying things in Thunderhead in Skyward Sword were.
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Glom
Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 9:27am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Here's my alternative pitchlet (it's not really a full pitch so it's a pitchlet).

First episode. Picard is still in a funk over Data's death (yes their relationship has been ridiculously flanderised but that's true of all relationships on this show so just roll with it).

He learns somehow that Data exists in a quantum simulation. He knows this at the beginning to avoid the absurdity of expecting us to invest in the death of a character we already thought was dead up until two minutes before the new death.

He also learns that Data's consciousness is breaking down due to tech tech because tech tech isn't perfect and it's impressive he's lasted this long. Having the death be of "natural causes" avoids the photon mine of having Picard euthanise Data because Data thought it would be a laugh (get passed the earnestness of the scene and that is basically what happened).

Data's location is currently unknown or at least difficult to reach.

Picard must embark on a quest to search for Data before he dies for reals this time (rather than pulling out USB sticks that could maybe just be reinstalled?).

Along the way, he has a few adventures that makes him reflect on stuff in a Picardish way.

He finally finds Data before it's too late, but what he says and does when finally meeting him is different than what he thought he'd say and do at the start because of the stuff alluded to above. Incidentally, no need for Picard to die to enable this. This is a universe where androids exist, where mind melds exist and where androids can do mind melds. Coming up with an excuse to get Picard into the similation is not hard.

Data passes away as depicted and it's a more powerful moment because it is actually paying off a personal story about Picard and no stupid AIpocalypse plot.

Picard gets to say goodbye this time and gets closure.

Picard returns home and gets killed by a grieving Geordi in a crime of passion because Geordi is angry that Picard didn't think to take him along.
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Glom
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Gerontius

I quite like your twist idea for the Reapers. That would be quite at home on TOS.

Still, it's telling how head canon people are having to add to address the storytelling shortfalls. Honestly, I think you're putting more effort into this than the actual writers.
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Glom
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 9:54am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@Dom

Writing by triggers is a subset of writing by checklist. That is good or bad triggers. Like having Riker have a badass moment. Doesn't matter if it's stupid, the fans will love it. And having provocative political content will get the right wing snowflakes frothing and watching so they can complain about it for longer than the actual political content lasts.

At the other hand of the horseshoe, you have Steve Shives who is virulently partisan, and something about his mid-season review made me think that he wasn't just saying he enjoyed it, but saying it with defiance as if to preach, because if anyone was going to see liking this as part of the culture wars, it would be him.

It's probably also worth noting that back in the day, the availability of information from the writers and show runners isn't what it is today. It may be that had the Internet and social media been like today back then, the show runners would have come off just the same. Rewatch the scene in Caretaker where Kim and Paris first report to Janeway. The first of many moments of discomfort for Harry Kim comes from self-consciously lampshading the gender of the captain.
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Glom
Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 8:51am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

@SC

I saw Critical Drinker's review and while he made a powerful point that if your season is one story, it had better be a good one, he, as usual, got too wrapped up in the myth of a conservative-friendly Star Trek of old.

Noteworthy how he and others who say that previously Star Trek was always previously even handed and "let you make up your mind", never actually cite any episodes to demonstrate this. I can do it. 'A Private Little War', 'The High Ground', 'Sanctuary'. But they never seem to be able to. I will of course also cite episodes like 'Let That Be Your Last Battlefield', 'The Last Outpost', 'The Neutral Zone', 'Bar Association', 'Far Beyond the Stars', 'The Drumhead', 'Forces of Nature', which were just plain preachy.

I really think those seeing this show as some sort of leftist propaganda are probably messages in the colour of the point. Stewart gets 80 seconds to make a message about refugees then the show moves on, and even outright contradicts him. Really, this show would be so much more improved if it actually did tell a political message. But it's far too incoherent for that.
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Glom
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 6:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I'll admit the only reason I know about Raffi/Seven is because it has been discussed here. I missed it in the episode itself.

But it seems that some of the arguments in favour of this are missing the point of the criticism. It seems that the criticism isn't that the two wouldn't make a good pairing, but that they have been paired up out of the blue.

Have these two characters ever exchanged dialogue? They can't have shared more than a couple of scenes since in episode 5 Raffi buggered off early and when Seven returned, she's spent almost the entire time in the Borg cube. If they have exchanged dialogue, has it been anything other than purely plot related?

It's no good saying they'll depict the relationship next season, because if they are already displaying public affection then clearly something has already happened that we missed. And that's disappointing that we won't be able to see them connecting unless they do it in flashback.
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Glom
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 5:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

A thing I noted ages ago was how two people can absolutely agree on the positives and negatives of something and yet come to wildly different conclusions overall. It's down to the balance of how the positives and negatives weigh and that will be subjective.

So with Picard, for some, the themes it touches on are embraced as valuable while the plot holes are dismissed as niggles that aren't worth obsessing over, but for others, the slapdash nature of the connective tissue tanks the value of the themes trying desperately to get out.
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Glom
Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Couple of problems there.

First, that really backfired didn't it? I mean it could not possibly have gone worse. The Zhat Vash were not fooled for a second (how did they find out about either of them anyway?) and they exploited Soji to get sensitive information that she didn't know she needed to protect.

Second, if he can program them to behave as perfectly passable humans, then he can program them to act like perfectly passable humans while knowing their true identity.

Third, still doesn't explain why Soji was on a Borg cube of all places (other than to shoehorn the Borg into this for no reason) or why Dahj was wasting time with uni applications and having a boyfriend. Why are they not at places that matter more to respective government policy?
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Glom
Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Some points on Nick's points.

Assuming that Jurati's crime will be revisited in later seasons is very generous. The way the episode played out, the actual murderer and the almost genocidal maniac are all smiling part of the crew and best friends. No hint they have any intention of making them facing consequences for their actions. They might pull a Rogue One and retcon consequences in the face of much outrage from viewers, but many of us won't buy that it was the plan all along.

The issue of showing trust in Soji being a theme is undermined by the ridiculous scale of her crime. As I said above, if they could have resisted their urge to make this about the destruction of all life in the galaxy, it could have worked.

Why were Dahj and Soji where they were? Maddox said something about sending them out to monitor anti-synth activity. Why then send Soji to a derelict Borg cube. More importantly, why were they sleepers? That is never addressed and as it stands makes no sense. YMMV whether these supermassive plot holes affect the overall experience, but to many of us, when the narrative is geared around the mystery these things matter.
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