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Gerontius
Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 7:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Surely the fact that Orville and Wilbur Wright were the first people to fly in a powered aircraft means their names should be at least as familiar as that if Neil Armstrong, first man on the moon.
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Gerontius
Sat, May 4, 2019, 6:40am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Maybe the absence of Gordon sitting next to him on the Orville meant LaMar didn't goof around so much, and his abilities weren't so concealed. And even if that didn't happen on the alternative Orville, Kelly2 would have known he had the abilities when she recruited him to her team, and used those abilities once she had him on board.
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Gerontius
Fri, May 3, 2019, 9:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I imagine the official rationale would have been to do with needing to differentiate this version of Kelly from the rather prim buttoned up one we're used to, given that this time they are both the same age. Though they didn't do anything much to differentiate the two versions of Ed.

I suspect there might have been another set of reasons though, to do with pulling in a few more viewers, as in some episodes of Enterprise.
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Gerontius
Fri, May 3, 2019, 2:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@Artymiss
"I would've liked the previous episode to have been the season finale with season 3 exploring the ramifications of younger Kelly's actions rather than cramming it all into this one episode"

Maybe they'd have done it like that if there'd been a confirmation about there being a season three. Things were definitely rushed especially at the end of The Road. An extended near feature length finale would have been better, ideally. I'd be against stretching out over too many episodes - the Orville style is really more or less the classic freestanding separate episodes one. (Even in DS9 most of the time. Leave stretching it too much over multiple episodes to Discovery.
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Gerontius
Thu, May 2, 2019, 11:25am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I've just seen Jammer's review. I'm glad he gives a thumbs up to the episode and to the series. Not because I imagine that'll make any difference to the people at Fox.

I disagree with him in seeing the big mistake as not locking young Kelly away in a quiet room - surely it was in sending her back without checking that Finn's magic memory-wiping potion had worked. (Or indeed in sending her back at all - unless somehow it was seen that time travel rules would mean if they'd decided not to thst would contaminate the utimeline since she'd cease to exist in the past, which evidently hadn't been envisaged when they thought there was no way to send her back.)
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Gerontius
Wed, May 1, 2019, 6:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

"Now you're pretending that you have rational reasons for both of those purely emotional decisions." That's Kaylontalk.

"The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing." That's human talk (Blaise Pascal, French philosopher writing in 17th Century.)

Nothing irrational about preferring one thing over another, and evaluating them in different ways taking that preference into account. If I like someone I am likely to put up with things I might not in someone I disliked.

The science is all hokey. Making up explanations for what is pretty clearly impossible can be fun, but equally it can be dispensed with when it isn't or when it gets in the way. That applies just as much in A Lord Darcy story by Randall Garrett or in Harry Potter as it does in The Orville ot Star Trek. Complaining about is like complaining that the animation in Inside Out is less "realistic" than in Moern Disney. "Realism" isnt "real", and it's not always important or even useful.
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Gerontius
Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 3:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

@wolfstar

"The criticism stands, though, that past and future Kelly seem like completely different people."

The younger Kelly seemed to me a perfectly plausible version of what the older Kelly (both vesions) might have been like seven years earlier. Rightly, this meant that she was very different. Another nod to realism. It was a virtuoso performance.

(And this was very different from the way the analogous situation was treated in Second Chances in TNG, where the two versions were unplausibly similar, as if being in solitary confinement for some years without any prospect of rescue had left no mark on Riker.)
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Gerontius
Sun, Apr 28, 2019, 11:39am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Saving the universe was very much a team effort, with John doing the clever stuff, and Ed destroying the Orville, and everyone else in the process of sending Claire back. That's in keeping with one thing I like about the series - it's not a matter of Ed being the hero. One of the many things I like about it. I suspect most of them are the very things that get up Tim C's nose.
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Gerontius
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 6:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I think that it's highly unlikely that someone who'd been married to Adrienne Palicki, compelled to work in close partnership with her in an environment like The Orville, would not continue to be attracted to her. Especially someone like Ed, a soft-hearted romantic. Maybe some people find the relationship boring, but it's a nod to realism.
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Gerontius
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 1:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

"On-screen sexual chemistry" is clearly a very subjective thing. I can't share Gil's confident assertion that it was lacking. The on off relationship seems perfectly plausible to me.

There was quite enough suspense for me. The ultimate outcome was clear enough all the way through, but working out how things would work out to reach that outcome wasn't. It was rushed at the end, that's true enough. A bit more elbow room was needed. But I imagine if it hadn't been rushed there'd have been some complaining about that.
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Gerontius
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

Fair enough, Artymiss, no spoilers. Mind, "action packed" doesn't imply what kind of action. You can have action packed games of chess...
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Gerontius
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

It was very strange that they didn't carry out a common sense check to be sure. Finn's procedure for wiping memories had worked before they sent Kelly2 back. They really are a pretty slapdash bunch up in the 25th century. If there was the most remote chance of that going wrong they should have kept her up in the future. Not to mention the irresponsibility involved in putting the ship at risk while sending her back, which involved exceeding safety limits.

But then without those things there wouldn't have been a real story.
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Gerontius
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 9:53am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I find that posts bringing in joky references to long past episodes of Star Trek, various other TV serials, movies etc, calling characters by the name of characters from such sources with whom there is some arguable similarity, and so forth, gets a bit irritating. It's a long time since most of those were ever broadcast, well before a lot of today's viewers were born.
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Gerontius
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 4:40am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

I think the assumption was that Kelly being snatched from the past didn't imply that she had ceased to exist there. More a matter of one instant of her existence being removed without affecting the others - equivalent essentially to what happened in Second Chances with Kirk and the transporter malfunction. Otherwise, as Slackerinc points out, snatching her would have had pretty well the same impact as arose when she turned down Ed's second date.
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Gerontius
Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 8:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

An excellent finale for the season. I was glad they didn't go for a cliffhanger episode to encourage fans to clamour for the show to get the extension. I think the episode as it stood, and the season as a whole, were quite string enough to make a good case.

If The Orville doesn't get extended that will just confirm that it was true to yet another tradition of the Original Star Trek, butchered by purblind executives as it was getting into its stride.

I note that some people here had a completely opposite reaction to the episode. Reactions seemed to be polarised - very good or terrible. Takes all sorts.

Spockless wrote "what the show lacks are likeable characters, fresh humor that pokes fun at the conventions of Trek but still has affection, steady, simple camera work, awesome production design.. and most of all.. a soul." Every word there I wholly disagree with - or rather I'd totally agree with the sentiment if one word was changed, so that it opened "what the show had are..."

It was good seeing Alara again - I hope she'll be back in the original timeline if the show continues. And maybe we'll see her and John developing that nascent relationship that we saw.
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Gerontius
Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 7:43pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

No need to wait, Paul C. Try the site, ololo.to, and you can get to see the finale now. I've just finished watching it, and I'm in England too.

As I expected it's an action-filled episode, which contrasts with the quieter tone of Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.
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Gerontius
Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 11:28am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

A rather grudging take on this episode from Jammer. I agree with RandomThoughts about the stuff about Second Chances. The idea of a sort of duplicate of a leading character is the same, but the treatment of it is completely different, and I don't think it's at all fear to see this as a rethread.

And I disagree with his irritation at Ed's inability to move on from Kelly. I think that's perfectly in keeping with his character. The lopsided relationship between Ed and Kelly is both plausible and sympathetic to both. It was clear enough that his attempt to restart things with young Kelly was pretty clearly going to flop, but I felt it entirely likely that he'd have gone for it - and perfectly fair too, and in no way creepy. Older Kelly' likes having him around as a besotted pet, but the idea that she has some kind of ownership over him (and of her younger self) is quite injustifiable (though there's nothing unexpected in her feeling that way).

But I was glad to see his praise for Palicki's performance, which was virtuosi.

A relationship based episode serves well to build up to what I suspect will be a more actiony second part for the season finale. (Which still threatens to be a series f8nale...)
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Gerontius
Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 7:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

The more you think about it, the worse the headache gets.

With a single timeline sending somebody back would necessary mean that your present timeline would not exist, and never did exist.

With a many worlds model anybody going back would necessarily arrive in a different world, and wouldn't ever have existed in your world. Effectively they'd be gone for good.

Time travel forward in principle no problem - we do it all the time anyway, it's just a matter of doing it faster. So bringing someone from the past, or sending someone into the future, fine. But no return tickets in either case.
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Gerontius
Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 3:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

I hope that, if The Orville is able to continue after this season, it will steer well clear of getting more like The Expanse.

Any greater realism in The Expanse lies in the fact that it's technology and the human environment involved is a lot more plausible than that of The Orville which is a lot closer to magic people are a lot nastier than they generally are in The Orville or classic Star Trek. Too, but I don't accept that that is necessarily more realistic.
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Gerontius
Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 10:36am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@Trent "both Ed and the writer conclude that it's a bad idea."

That's a different matter from it being unethical. It might indeed have been a very bad idea, if Kelly1 was sufficiently pissed off. But that wouldn't mean Ed was at fault. I'd say that would have been highly unethical on Kelly's part, but it's wise to be ready for other people acting unethically.

A bit like the old rhyme about driving:
"Here lies the body of Mr Grey
Who died maintaining his right of way -
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But he's just as dead as if he were wrong."
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Gerontius
Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 3:05am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@Trashbarg
I didn't mean I would assume there'd be no tricky times ahead. But I'd feel satisfied that there was nothing unethical, unfair or dishonourable in going ahead. I can't follow the thinking of those here who see Ed's actions as creepy or weird or sleazy.
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Gerontius
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 3:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

The niceties of time travel sexual etiquette are beyond me.
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Gerontius
Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 1:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

I'm impressed and quite surprised by how sensitive people are about the two Kelly situation. I'm afraid I'm a lot less sensitive. If I imagine myself into the situation as Mercer I'm sure I would blunder on, and go for the younger Kelly. The older Kelly has repeatedly said there's no chance of getting together, and she's even said "no problem" with me going ahead with her younger version, so that would settle it for me. If something' s over, it's over and there's no enduring ownership rights.

As for time travel, I quite agree with Mercer, thinking about it makes your head hurt. I'm glad it's not part of my real world. The same is true with the "many worlds interpretation", which is basically the same thing. I'm happy to sort of accept it in stories, and not think about it too much.
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Gerontius
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

What I've seen of Discovery seems pretty familiar to me. Just not so much familiar from Star Trek vessels visually.
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Gerontius
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:07am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

It was interesting to see how the episode carried on the exploration of the way in which people are shaped largely by the people they are involved with, y that was a key element in Lasting Impressions. And I suspect we'll get this further explored in the next episode.

I can't imagine anything like that in Discovery. A bit too cerebral.
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