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Sleeper Agent
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 4:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Equinox, Part II

The first part was pretty good, the second part, however, is magnificent.

Mostly thanks to Mulgrew, who is absolutely ravishing as dark Janeway. The interplay between her and Chakotay also added an interesting dynamic to the duo (although I can't for the life me understand why anyone would disobey Janeway).

Also, Savage does an excellent job as Equinox's Captain. I thoroughly enjoyed the Doctor without the ethical subroutine as well, reminded me of the great movie "The Dentist".

4 Stars, thanks to the Janeway factor.
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Mike
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 1:31pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Trials and Tribble-ations

Loved it! My favorite parts were Worf describing the Klingon war against the tribbles, “mortal enemies of the Klingon Empire”, the Klingons obliterated the Tribble homeworld, lol, I howled.
And Dax looking smoking hot in a Starfleet mini skirt. Thank the stars!
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MusicalTurtle
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 9:58am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: Dramatis Personae

@Leif I agree.

Could the ep have been better? Yes. I'd have liked to have seen more of the real characters, but at this point in the series they are still getting established so we don't know whether these are amplified traits, or just completely out of character.

For sci-fi there are stock plots and ideas, but the details in how it's executed are generally what interest me. So this episode,the question was 'they are out of character - why?'. That's what kept me watching, and of course the answer to that also determines whether the station and/or characters are in danger.

Not the best episode, but interesting enough for me - the the first time round, anyway, and again after enough time has passed to forget how it turns out. Certainly not a favourite to regularly revisit.
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Del_Duio
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 9:32am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Lasting Impressions

I've been watching this series lately and wanted to say that it is GREAT. This is the Trek we deserve. I'm super impressed!
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:44am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: A Matter of Perspective

Well, I didn't really care for all the character drama stuff in this one.

What I absolutely loved about this episode is the twist ending. It was an ingenious sci fi idea which, to me, makes up for the... ehm... less-than-stellar moments that came before.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:35am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

@TopHat
"I do find the point interesting that Melora is not strictly a disabled person, but an alien who travels outside of environments her species has evolved for. Does the euphemism "differently abled" apply more strongly? After all, the problem is the environment around her, nothing inherent to her body."

The same could be said about many of the "disabilities" in the real world, though.

People in wheelchairs would be able to do everything a walking person could do, had they lived in a suitable environment. Does it really make a difference, whether this ideal environment actually exists on some planet or not? The only reason these people have such a hard time in the actual world, is that we live in a society that takes walking for granted.

And the simple fact is that the word "disabled" nearly always refers to some kind of external standard: You can't be "disabled" in a void. It's always in comparison to some set of requirements for being "able-bodied" which is - in the end - a largely social construct.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:05am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

It's kinda hilarious (in a bad way) that the crew of a space station on which different SPECIES work together, make such a big deal of something as simple as making access for a wheelchair. You'd think such a place would need to accommodate a far bigger spectrum of diverse needs, like extreme temperatures or unusual breathing mixtures or the-devil-knows-what-else, on a daily basis.

Yes, I know that in Star Trek 99% of the aliens are basically humans with prosthetics. And in an ordinary episode this would be fine. We just accept it as a conciet needed due to the constraints of television story-telling.

But when you have a story like "Melora", the rediculousness of it all suddenly becomes evident. In short, this is a story that shouldn't have been made in the first place (even if they fixed all the problems).
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 1:39am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: In the Cards

@Booming

Don't worry. I have absolutely no interest in continuing on this futile tangent.

Now back to discussing DS9 and this episode:

I actually agree with Lew's general point of how the people onboard DS9 are behaving too much like 20th century humans. It's a thing that bugs me too about this show (and to lesser extent - about Voyager).

I just don't agree with the specific example he gave here. I don't see anything "greedy" or "primitive" in the idea of cheering Sisko up with a sentimental gift. In fact, I find this episode heart-warming and beautiful (and much of the stuff with the Geiger fellow was also hilariously funny).

It's ironic. Because my biggest gripe with the characters of DS9 is how often they fall into being egotistical and petty (at least when compared to the earlier Trek shows) and the spirit of *this* episode is precisely the opposite of that.
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Mike
Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 11:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: The Assignment

O’Brien went along with the alien body snatcher too easily, didn’t even ask who are you? Miles is savvier than that. Keiko should just go be a botanist somewhere.
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Mike
Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 5:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Nor the Battle to the Strong

I enjoyed this episode. I like Jake and I like Cirroc Lofton (guess I’m in the minority judging by other reviews).
I was waiting for Jake to save Bashir’s life at the end, go from coward to hero all in one episode, but I like how the writers didn’t take that route. Instead Jake saves everybody pretty much by accident, he confessed it all to Sisko at the end. I really like the bond between Sisko and Jake.
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Brian Lear
Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 3:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Terra Nova

Disagree, I thought this was a good episode. Your vision for what "could have been" on Terra Nova, is definitely the more predictable scenario. I like how they didn't go that direction. They did something different, and, while it didn't succeed wildly, at least it made me sit up and think. The idea of an isolated colony of humans converted to subterranean life after a natural disaster is a good one. I would have liked to see a thriving and complex society down there too, it would be fun. But I think the more realistic scenario is the one we got. Humans completely isolated on a planet with few supplies and forced underground. Do you really think they would have come up with the type of underground society we saw in the caretaker, in just a couple generations? Those types of societies take thousands, maybe tens of thousands of years to evolve.

I do agree that the novans should have gotten better dialogue.
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:58am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: The Neutral Zone

Re: original Borg plan

The original idea was to open season two with the Enterprise discovering the Borg has destroyed the Romulan Empire and the crew discovering that the Romulans found a way to destroy the Borg cube

The crew were to run into more Borg and would need to figure out how the Romulans destroyed the first cube
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Lew Stone
Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 1:57am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: In the Cards

@ Omi, my arguments are fine, and whatever you want to believe about the episode is fine, but some of you have a nasty tone to your messages. I've read comments by people on this DS9 board that pointed out how many DS9 fans swarm and attack with nasty attitudes when someone gives negative feedback (I'm not the first), then others as you are doing now, try to play it off like its some kind of respectful criticism and other people are taking it too seriously. It's the other way around chum, you take it too seriously and have poison in your posts, don't blame others for defending themselves against you.

Also, I don't assume I'm "better than everyone else" but I do think that I'm better than most at understanding what makes stories good or bad only because I've worked hard at this understanding for many years, as I stated above.

As for taking the role of the victim, I'm not a victim but I stand up to idiots trying to be bully's. I only created a post and you attacked, so try and be a bully if you want to, doesn't phase me, I've dealt with bully's in real life and now on message boards, but again, good try.
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Sleeper Agent
Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 3:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Warhead

I have to admit I'm somewhat perplexed over the negative opinions that many seem to have about "Warhead".

I thought it was an interesting story, beautifully filmed and with strong performances by all - except Picardo. He was too similar to the Doctor, should've switched it up a bit more. I loved the sounds the warhead made to communicate btw.

3 very solid stars.
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MusicalTurtle
Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 2:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

Trying to write this through brainfog right now so apologies if some of it doesn't make sense or it goes off on tangents and not actually addressing the comments to which I'm responding.

@Peter G. Very good points, and regarding POV I think that's probably the overarching problem with it. If it had been written by able-bodied people I think I *would* have given it a pass because it was the 90s. Learning that it was co-written by a disabled person (he's credited with the story and on the teleplay) is what aggravated me so much. But as I said, nobody is immune from internalised ableism, and many disabled people today, even of the younger generations, still struggle with it. It's just frustrating that they blew such a potentially great opportunity.

People feeling inconvenienced by making accommodations is unfortunately still something we come up against a lot. Anything more than a token ramp (which may or may not even be useable) is usually questioned at least, refused at worst. I suppose that is one good point for the episode - they did willingly do everything she needed to the station before her arrival, Julian's unauthorised specs change notwithstanding.

@Booming I think Melora not actually being disabled is why I felt so conflicted back when I first saw it, not sure if it was supposed to be about disability or what. But seeing it so very obviously depicted with medical devices (all the bracing, the wheelchair, the cane) this time around I knew it was definitely intended to portray a sci-fi version of disability.

I have no idea what other representation was or wasn't around at the time so can't really comment on anything else (though I agree Quark in drag was truly terrible, but I have no idea what level of offensive that was).

@OmicronDeltaThetaPhi "Representation done wrong is worse than no representation at all" - indeed. Bad representation does give opportunity to discuss why it was terrible, but only in certain circles. The rest of the viewership only see the bad representation and hear nothing to dispute it.

@TopHat interesting questions! Your first paragraph kind of aligns with the real-world social model of disability, which is what I was hinting at re: deaf and autistic people, and disabled people with purely physical disabilities - in a fully accessible world, many disabled people would genuinely have no problem. It's people like me who are disabled through chronic illness with inherently unreliable bodies that muddy those waters ;)

Re: straying too far out of her lane, historically and even still today (though it is better now than it was) disabled people have struggled with having very low expectations put on them*, which feeds the problem of inspiration p*rn. Not expected to be able to learn, to love, to live independently, to work, to make useful contributions to society. So in my view, Melora working so hard to leave her planet and do beyond what was expected of her is possibly one thing they actually got right!

*Either that or having excessively high expectations - able-bodied people using para-athletes or other well-known disabled people and saying 'they can do it so you should be able to as well'. Or seeing all disabled people as the same, 'my friend's disabled aunt can do this that and the other so you should too' even though they don't have the same disability (although even the same disability will affect everybody differently anyway).

I will have a look at that essay. I'm not usually involved particularly with politics around identity and representation (although my initial rant might call that statement into question).


DS9: still inspiring debate more than quarter of a century later! Thank goodness most of the rest of it was better ;)
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 4:50am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: In the Cards

@Lew Stone

It's amazing that every single thing you've accused the people here of, is a thing that you yourself are doing.

Can't accept criticism? check.
Arrogantly assuming that you're better then everyone else? check.
Playing the role of a victim? check.
Taking everything here way *way* too seriously? check.

So you might want to lighten up...

Also, please remember that this a Trekkie discussion board and that one of our favorite hobbies is to nitpick and overanalyze and correct EVERYTHING we see. So if you see people doing that to your comments, try not to take it personally.

(you might also want to take it as sign that you should try and improve your arguments)
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Todayshorse
Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:16am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Heroes and Demons

I note even this early on, as Ensign Harry 'I cant get a lock' Kim was busy being converted from matter to energy blah blah blah its B' Elanna 'I cant get a lock' Torres who stands in him by being unable to get a lock resulting in the temporary deaths of Chuckles and Tuvok.
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Lew Stone
Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:03am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Call to Arms

This episode was okay. I agree with Jammer on much of what he wrote, but I would have given it less stars. My review boils down to two elements: I like the political intrigue and strategizing but I don't like the romances.

I agree with Jammer about the Nog/Leeta romance. Really, it comes down to the fact that I hate the Nog character, the way he's portrayed that is. Yes, I get it, he's kind of like an idiot-savant when it comes to engineering. This is the one part of his personality I DO like. But I hate the delivery. I would bet that the actor was told to act the character in this way, so not his fault. But damn, as I go through the DS9 series there is alot about families, babies, people breaking up, getting back together, more than I like. The only relationship I like, which was not profiled in this episode, is K. Yates and Sisko. She's great, well-acted and I like that she's a strong woman. Anyway, back to this episode. I also don't like the Worf/Jadzia coupling, basically because I don't like Jadzia at all. I have a lot of problems with her character in that she's shown to be a drinker, party-girl, gambler, she's been manipulative about relatively minor things. My opinion is that the writers try too hard to make Jadzia powerful by having her act like a debauched person, all for the sake of 'experience', but that doesn't make someone 'tough' and it's a poor example of a Starfleet officer. In any case, I don't like her.

The positives about this episode for me have to do with Weyoun and Sisko playing the diplomatic game that eventually leads to action. I thought this was very believable. The scene of them calmly and politely exploring what the other person plans to do was understated, which made it more powerful. Here is a situation where I think Sisko acts like a great Starfleet officer. He's polite but firm regarding the influx of Dominion ships/personnel/supplies, and if it leads to war then so-be-it. Also, I like how Sisko supports keeping Bajor essentially neutral, it's clever for all the reasons that have been stated above.

About the replicating mines, was this something that already existed? Or did Nog invent this on-the-spot? I'm not sure. I realize that the writers want Nog to come across as brilliant in engineering terms, so perhaps he invented this. In any case the mines were necessary, and they couldn't be regular mines because the Dominion would simply blow them up. It worked.

I agree with Jammer again in that the writers seemed to be going for a "love and war" theme and that it didn't really work. I just subtract more points for the failed romantic plotting than Jammer.

2 Stars
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Lew Stone
Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 12:34am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: In the Cards

You folks have a real problem with criticism. Despite all of your arguments I still don't agree with any of you about this episode. So, keep making those arguments but I think the 'A' plot line was dumb, the baseball card was dumb, and those two actors are two of the worst on the show. If you care to have more detail about that then see my above comments.

@ Peter G. you're completely wrong about the gift idea needing to be something other than writing, like the card. Sisko has praised his son many times for his literary accomplishments and is clearly proud of him. So both Sisko and Jake appreciate Jake's writing and is meaningful for both of them. Also, taking into consideration that a beautifully written poem, or meaningful story, has a deeper meaning than a baseball card, then this makes my idea better than the baseball card. And yes Peter, I have great ideas for stories and music. I've proven this in my own life many times. I've recorded music and played it live to many audiences, written poetry and done many poetry readings. I've read many books of American literature, studied story construction in stories, poems, and songs, and after a many years of doing this (decades) I know what a poorly constructed story looks like compared to an average story compared to a great story. Maybe you don't, and that's okay but I do. Why is that so hard to believe? Some people, like me, devote years to learning these things because we are interested.

@ Omicron, I made the "stalking" comment as a joke because Booming and I had just finished a long dialogue on another episode, so I expected him to get the joke. It wasn't meant for you but you inserted yourself anyway and did have quite a nasty tone to your post. I completely understand that you want to play some kind of victim but you are not, you are a bully who inserted themselves into a discussion. Heck, I never even addressed you. I simply put up a post and you all responded negatively to it. Oh and in the 24th century humans are beyond acting nobly? How is this so? Acting nobly, morally, ethically, those are hallmarks of the Federation and Starfleet. Yes, writing a small piece of literature reminding Sisko of these virtues that even death and war can't take away, a piece of writing devoted to him from father to son, is more eloquent and more profound, and in the end more meaningful, especially during a difficult time, than a baseball card. I know, you can't see it, which is fine.

@ Booming, your last sentence proves my point that you are arrogant which is probably why you, along with your buddies here, so ravenously attack anyone who doesn't like DS9. Keep being arrogant see where it gets you.

Along these lines I'll address how you all seem to wolf-pack anyone with a negative comment about DS9. I see it on here all the time. You all come off as arrogant know-it-all's who can't stand if even a couple of people on this thread criticize this show, it's a bit disturbing considering the vast majority of people on here love DS9 episodes. Is your goal to have 100% agreement? Are you so threatened by just a few people criticizing this show? You seem like it, the way you gang up. Am I not entitled to give a negative critique of DS9? According to you all I guess I'm not. You all come across as a bunch of babies really. I can hear the crying now.

As an aside, I actually like some DS9 episodes, parts of episodes, and some characters quite a bit. But you all ignore that, which proves you're trolls.

I will continue to watch the series because I wanted to give it a fair shot, just like VOY, I started watching these series years ago, didn't like them and stopped watching them. Recently I decided, why not just muscle through the episodes and give them a fair shake. It turns out that I began liking VOY a bit more, I don't hate it like I used to, so that's nice. However, DS9, sorry, still don't like it. But I'm coming from a place of open-mindedness, you all are simply close-minded trolls trying to demolish anyone who doesn't agree with you. So continue being trolls, get upset when not every single person agrees with you. I will continue critiquing as I see fit. Hey, I'm about to write a couple more reviews. Be sure to comment.
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 9:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

@Booming

"And don't forget. Disabled people got that episode which is meh but think about what the transsexuals got... a sex change for Quark and gay men were completely absent."

Representation done wrong is worse then no representation at all, tough. I was actually astounded to learn that the writer of this episode was himself disabled, because Melora (both the episode and the character) annoyed me to no end.

And it's not true that the LGBT people didn't get anything. They got "rejoined" which - in my view - did everything right on this front: It managed to demonstrate that same-sex relationships are a non-issue in the 24th century, while ALSO giving us a compelling "gay rights" allegory.

Of-course, I'm not gay myself, so feel free to dispell my enthusiasm for that episode :-)
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Peter G.
Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

@ MusicalTurtle,

I respect that your position on this comes from personal experience and it's interesting to read your take on it. But I would like to comment on this specifically:

"But not only is she the central character, her disability IS the story - so it HAD to be done right. That's the responsibility they chose to take on and I'm not sure they get a pass just because it was the 90s."

I know you already prefaced this with that it doesn't get a pass just because it was in the 90's, but I think that detail really does matter. At that time certain shows like DS9 (and Frasier, as recently discussed) tried to make a big deal about representing certain lifestyles in a positive way, or at least as being viable. And yet, being the era it was, it was going to come with a sort of cheery and sometimes simplified tone that IMO is highly indicative of TV and film from 1985-1995. The optimism of the time sometimes wiped away ugly details. That may be called a flaw, but I'm not sure it's quite fair to blame DS9 itself for it.

In this ep we are given the usual scenario: some unpleasant situation walks in the door. In this case it's a disabled person with a bad attitude, but I think that allegorically it means that for all the positive talk many people in the early 90's still had a sort of disdain for disabled stuff, like making places accessible and that sort of thing. So there was likely a clash in the culture between being increasingly understanding, versus the whole "ugh why do we have to be inconvenienced by this crap" self-serving attitude. So yes, they give Melora a bad attitude here, but I think it's sort of like us getting the POV of someone having to annoyingly cater to a disabled person when all they see is the wheelchair. Sort of like "well I guess we have to treat this person special but it's aggravating to go through all that." What I think the episode is doing is saying that, no, actually it's a real person and not a wheelchair, and that the 'annoyance' that comes with the handicap will go away when you get to know her and see her as a person rather than a disability. In terms of the structure of the episode Julian warming to her is roughly on par with him seeing her more as a person and less as a project. And actually that's a good place for him to be as a character too, since he tends to objectify people in terms of "hot woman, should pursue", or "patient, should heal".

Where the episode may be lacking, and maybe what you're picking up on, is that it doesn't really give us her POV at all. What we see is *other people* experiencing the initial annoyance, then learning stuff, then warming to her, with a happy ending where understanding is achieved. So it's all from their side of things, and we don't get her side to much of an extent other than when we refuses to change her lifestyle to suit them. But even then it's sort of showed as how they would receive the refusal, not so much her perception of all these things. Maybe that is a failure on its part, and maybe it's a 90's style failure, but I do think the spirit of the thing was to show that their initial annoyance was due mostly to not knowing her better, even though it certainly might come off as her having an attitude problem. That's sort of an issue in general with using a scenario as a placeholder for a social situation.

Not that I'm greatly defending this ep, it's one of my least favorite ones. I'd just sort of at least give them credit for trying.
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MusicalTurtle
Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

Me again. Y'know, I've just realised why this is such a big deal to me. Sloppy representation might have been okay if she were a supporting character, and/or her disability were incidental. But not only is she the central character, her disability IS the story - so it HAD to be done right. That's the responsibility they chose to take on and I'm not sure they get a pass just because it was the 90s.
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MusicalTurtle
Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 1:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

Urgh. This episode was uncomfortable while I was able-bodied, when I watched all through DS9 a few years ago. I couldn't bear it as a now disabled person; it's the only episode I skipped after the teaser. From what I remember, based on the reviews -

'CMO's log, We've been working overtime':
AM: didn't pick up on it
DM: Oh great, of course making accommodations is such a burden on the able-bodied people *rolls eyes*


Julian likes Melora after just reading about her:
Able-bodied me: Julian's immature woman-chasing strikes again, sappy
Disabled me: the embodiment of inspiration p*rn (the entire foundation of his admiration is 'she's so inspiring to overcome her challenges, isn't she amazing?!') blech.

Why doesn't she use the transporter?:
AM: Huh, I don't know
DM: It's about independance and the freedom to go where you want without having to rely on others. Unless she had her own transporter device? [I would find that cool, but that doesn't mean every disabled person would.]

Julian alters her wheelchair specs:
AM: arrogant, obviously that's not what she wanted but his intentions were good
DM: WOW how dare he presume to know better than the disabled person what she needs?! Modifying someone's wheelchair without permission is awful. His intentions may have been good but HE SHOULD HAVE ASKED

Melora is defensive, hostile:
AM: that's not called for
DM: that's still not called for. If there are backstory reasons*, they really need to explain them; if not then their only portrayal of a disabled person is insulting because it plays right into the perception of 'I was only trying to help but that ungrateful disabled person bit my head off'.

[Actually, in the real world most of us will only get defensive if unwanted 'help' is *forced* on us, usually because the abled 'helper' just wants to feel good about themselves, isn't actually thinking about us and genuinely helping, and their actions are neither wanted, needed, or even safe sometimes. If someone *offers* to help, most of us will appreciate the offer and politely decline if we don't need assistance. #JustAskDontGrab]

*Just read Memory Alpha, and there are some feeble reasons. I don't buy them as being any justification - I understand frustration and the weariness of going over the same things again and again, and the 'talking about me without me' - but this was a new group of people, a clean slate, and it's still uncalled for. There are ways of comminicating one's needs assertively without being horrible.


Some nice little bits about accessibility (the Cardassians didn't have Melora in mind, and the world doesn't have disabled people in mind. Legislation has been in place in much of the Western world for years now, and still the majority of places aren't accessible. Just putting in a ramp does not make a building accessible)

Overall the teaser can be summed up in one word: Ableism.
So, so much ableism.

The flying scene:
AM: Huh ... it's kinda sweet? Not sure what to make of it
DM: Still not sure what to make of it? If you squint reeeeeally hard, they *might* be making a point about removing barriers and getting to know the person, not the disability? Maaaaybe? Or that disabled people might have struggles in everyday life but that doesn't mean our entire lives are hopeless and tragic?

Someone mentioned in the comments Julian getting praised in Ops as Melora walks for basically 'curing' her - in isolation it could be taken as okay, but in the context of what I remember from the episode, it's basically 'yay abled saviour well done you for rescuing this tragic person and giving them the opportunity of a normal life' - blech, again.

I also seem to recall Melora really only spent her free time with the Dr. That just strikes me as so lazy, so 'medical model' - she's disabled so of course(!) she spends time with the doctor - !!! as if a disabled person's identity revolves around their disability. (and URGH I still can't get past how he fell for her initially because of her disability),
- In-universe I understand that it was a character episode for Bashir, it's just unfortunate he was also the doctor. It might have felt less unsettling if the character falling for her and spending time with her were, say, an engineer, but with the established characters that wasn't really possible. An unfortunate situation with a result that just didn't sit well with me.

The conclusion, again I don't know what to make of it. Perhaps I might have to watch it to see how well her decision was explained.

Maybe it's a good thing the episode didn't go with the abled/'normal' saviour conclusion? After all, any 'cures' in the real world come with a huge price and are extremely rare (think, exoskeleton suits, wheelchairs that can climb stairs - all prohibitively expensive) and for some people such as in the Deaf community, autistic people, their disabilities are an integral part of their identities and they wouldn't change it. If the world were made truly, fully accessible, they would have zero problems.
But then, those of us disabled by chronic illness - despite fully embracing our disabled identity - would very happily have our health back given the chance! The most that the majority of us can hope for, however, is increased accessibility and understanding.


Phew.

Having read Memory Alpha and seeing how it ends - and having sorted my feelings out - I might be able to watch it again. I'll have to see. I just remember feeling profoundly unsettled through the entire episode before, because I really felt it had the potential to say something but completely missed that opportunity.

I didn't mean for my first comment (I think?) to be an SJW tirade; this episode was the only one to leave me feeling so conflicted and so deeply uncomfortable (even though I was watching it at the time as an able-bodied person). And I do like Julian as a character overall, by the end he's certainly one of my favourites; just the writers unfortunately chose to play the VERY long game with him. Underneath the initial arrogance and lusting after women though, there are glimmers of a good heart - I remember him making me cringe a bit early on when I first watched DS9 through, but not hating him.

Just remembered - did someone mention this was written by a disabled writer?! Oh yes, @Andrea did. My heart just sank again. I mean, it might not have been completely ableist, but for a disabled writer to completely miss the mark is really disappointing. Many of us do have to struggle with internalised ableism but one would hope before putting something out so publicly, it would have been scrutinised a bit more carefully. *sigh*

My final niggle is that Of Course the disabled person was played by an able-bodied person - however, as it was way back in 1993 I can forgive them. (House M.D. on the other hand ... !! I can only recall three disabled actors in the entire eight years. That's disgraceful for a medical show.)

End rant. Thank you Jammer for both your thoughtful reviews and hosting space for our varying opinions, and debate. I haven't read all of TNG, DS9 and VOY yet but it is so interesting to come and read analyses of certain episodes - really adds an extra layer for me as someone who doesn't usually have the brainpower to think too much about what I'm watching! I hope to get through the three sets of reviews some day.
[If Farscape had been your thing, I imagine your reviews and the comments from regulars here would have been fascinating!]
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sjdrake
Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 1:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Q Who

I agree this was great fun to watch with a high entertainment value.

There are however a number of discordant points.

The introduction of Sonia Gomez was amusing but played no subsequent part in the story. I really don't think her presence was allegorical; it's not the Trek way, their social messages are pretty 'in-yourface' rather than allusive allegories more appropriate to a Tudor period portrait. It might have carried more punch if she'd been one of the 18 lost in the incident, but actually I saw she was engaged for three stories and dropped after two.

Guinan's prior relationship with Q was hinted at but sadly, never picked up which makes you wonder why the scene was there at all. Her odd defensive stance makes it seem more like a Harry potter type battle. Even more strange, Guinan knew all about the Borg but despite her close relationship with Picard, never saw fit to mention them or give the Federation a heads-up on them!

If Q hadn't taken the trouble, The Fed would have had no warning of them at all. Two years journey sounds a lot, but to a collective bent upon adding new species to their flock, it's nothing. If we could send a ship to the next star on a four years round journey, there would have been no shortage of volunteers and it would have been long accomplished.

Q always seems to me overall a beneficial entity, but the attitude of the Enterprise (and later Voyager) is quite unbelievable. Despite his incredible powers, he is always treated with undisguised contempt. Is that wise? Quite apart from the benefits he could confer (and which are almost always pointlessly spurned by the needy beneficiaries), he is one of the few beings (like the Dawd) with the power to annihilate at will. Remember what Kevin did to the Husnock? Presumably Q could do the same, so why not take the trouble to show a little respect? (It's pretty worrying to discover that teenage Q are no better than human teenagers....bye bye, world?)

The trouble with beings with virtually infinite power is what to do with them. In trek, they never seem to have wisdom appropriate, despite the fact they presumably have a several billion years head start on us. There seem to be few other Organians...
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Peter G.
Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 11:30am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: In the Cards

@ Lew Stone,

It's interesting you suggest that Jake should have written a sonnet for Ben as part of your critique of the episode. Your general tone seems to indicate you know better than everyone else. Well ok, let's put that detail on hold for the moment. Then you suggest that you also know better than the writers of the episode what would cheer up Ben most, and that it's not an antique baseball card but rather a piece of literature. Let's examine that. Have you seen any evidence in the series that Ben is a fan of high literature? Sonnets? Sure, I guess maybe people in the Federation may read more than people today do, but have we seen anything in DS9 to show he's an avid reader, or lover of poetry, like Picard was? If not, why should that gift make him happy? Because you think it's thematically more appropriate to Jake's characterization?

So let me ask this: when you're getting a gift for someone, do you get them something according to what would maximally demonstrate "your characterization", or do you get them something you think they'd like, based on their tastes? Do you think of creative ways to fulfll what they would like, or do you get thems something *you think they ought to like*? From your suggestion it's sounding like you think Jake should get Ben something you approve of rather than something Ben would actually like. You say that poetry or whatever is better for getting over war doldrums. Is that a fact? Show me the study where the test cases prefer poetry to sentimental shows of affection and I'll be quite interested. On the fact of it your argument seems to make no sense, and I have no reason to believe Ben would be interested in poetry or that it would lift his spirits, other than it's from Jake. But since it has that in common with a baseball card that point is moot. The card is something peculiar to Ben's tastes, so it does seem like the clear choice over something we have no way to know if he'd care for. So are you sure your attitude on this plot point isn't another case of thinking you know better, in this case knowing better than someone what their own likes are?

I mention all this as sort of a parenthesis, because harping on the choice of gift is actually missing the point of the episode entirely. What Jake and Nog needed was a quest, to be able to do something. The fact that it ended up being an immense treasure hunt is exactly the point of the episode, and in some way the card turns into the holy grail in that it was the focal point of a huge exertion whose pursuit brought out the best in Jake, to the point of standing right up to Weyoun. *That* is what Ben would have been most proud of, and although Ben doesn't actually see all this we do, and that's why it's a good episode.
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