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Dougie
Sat, Jun 1, 2019, 3:58am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Galaxy's Child

FutureQ,
I like your read. I’m generally not a huge fan of this episode, although precisely because it’s cringeworthy. Personally I don’t think Geordi would have made it to a senior role with his relationship issues. Psych evals would have revealed this blind spot long ago.
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Donald
Thu, May 30, 2019, 1:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Q2

2.5 to 3 stars.

This was a lighthearted comedy, not intended to be serious drama or examination of the meaning of what it would mean to encounter an omnipotent being, and you people are judging it as if it were the latter. That is an absurd category mistake.

The Q storyline was always meant to be funny. There is no way you could take any of it seriously in any of the series.

It would have been great if Voyager had been written to be a serious drama like BSG or even DS9, but since it wasn’t, you should take it for what it was and judge it episode by episode. Some episodes were meant to be taken seriously and some were not.
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Dom
Thu, May 23, 2019, 6:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

So the Picard teaser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3om4V_-Y0Q&feature=share

It's fine. It's a teaser. There's obviously a mystery about where Picard's been. He's no longer in Starfleet. He's downcast. It's beautifully shot. Didn't make me more or less excited for the show.
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Dom
Thu, May 23, 2019, 5:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@William B, it's amazing how many people forget that, but it's so true. Reboots can actually be good if you actually get good writers and have some good ideas. Battlestar Galactica and Rise of Planet of the Apes are to me the gold standard for reboots.
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Dom
Wed, May 22, 2019, 5:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Chrome, yes, that's the one. I tuned in because I was a Darkwing Duck fan, but came away very impressed. It also had some interesting things to say about what it means to be a fan. I agree, it's a bit puzzling that Ducktales has better social commentary than the current Star Trek show.
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Dom
Tue, May 21, 2019, 10:00am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi, absolutely. I've been really frustrated with the hypocrisy in fandom. I've seen people who claim to just want a "genuine dialogue" with fans who disagree, and then turn around and trash those fans when they do disagree. People are far to ready to dismiss any opinion that doesn't line up with theirs.

@Chrome, I just watched the most recent episode of Ducktales and you're not wrong. I hadn't been watching that show, but it's actually quite good (and clever). If I had more time I'd dig into it.
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Don Meisner's Jubilee
Sun, May 19, 2019, 7:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Emergence

"I want an explanation Mr LaForge. Picard out. "


No shit! Their technology is soooooooooo flaky!

Picard's reaction after hearing about the Theta buildup and the mysterious force that saved their lives is every IT manager's life....

clearly the writers of this had no technical background if they think the shite systems could form an intelligence

I'm all for science fiction but this isn't consistent with the shitty (did I mention that?) systems as they are...

4/10 the lowest of the low
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Dom
Sun, May 19, 2019, 9:22am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Booming, at the end of the day, I do tend to err on the side of giving fans more rather than less freedom to voice their opinions. Disney, HBO, and CBS are massive corporations and already have a lot of power to shape the public discussion about their products. The actors and writers give interviews, hold events at cons, etc to promote their work. Your average fan on Twitter or Youtube is nothing compared to that. I do worry about a world in which these corporations deliberately whip up fans of their works to shout down fans who are more critical. I think we already saw a bit of that with The Last Jedi, which was a PR disaster. I refrained from talking too publicly about certain parts of that film for months because I didn't want to get labeled as a sexist or racist manbaby. Now, a worrying trend on the other side is that in aggregate fans do seem to have increasing power to shape the public discourse on the other side. I do think part of that is the media attention the most extreme parts of fandom get. If mainstream media outlets hadn't covered the GoT or Last Jedi petitions, I doubt they would have gotten nearly as many signatures. The outrage industrial complex shines a spotlight on fan outrage, increases fan outrage, and so on.
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Dom
Sun, May 19, 2019, 7:53am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Booming,

I actually agree strongly with your first point on GoT. I was grinning during the episode, not because I'm a sociopath, but because for years I felt like that's where Dany's arc was going but I didn't think the show would have the guts to go through with it. Glad I was wrong.

I actually meant the Washington Post article (posted much higher in the thread), not that Vox article. I find it to be a useful attempt to structure film criticism. It suggests we ask three questions: "What was the artist trying to achieve? Did he or she achieve it? And was it worth doing?" What I like is that it gets us away from actually critiquing the art on its own terms rather than measuring it against our own expectations. So for me, for example, Discovery in Season 1 was trying to tell a war story, but it didn't succeed in the building the stakes or providing a satisfactory payoff. As much as I might want my Trek to be high-concept episodic sci-fi, Discovery was never going for that, so that might be a reason why I personally don't enjoy the show, but that's not a constructive critique of the show.

Which gets back to my point above. There's a difference between allowing fans to have their criticisms and those criticisms being constructive and leading to productive discussion. I believe strongly fans can and should be allowed to say whatever they want about a show and not attacked. At the same time, while I respect their right to disagree, that doesn't mean I have to respect their argument. If someone is launching ad hominem attacks, I'd say don't engage. That person just isn't worth your time. People online seem to think we're going to persuade people who disagree with us, but we just aren't. The social science on persuasion shows that it's much, much harder to get people to change their minds with facts and reason than most people believe.

You're right though, the line between critiques of the show and attacks on fans can perhaps become a bit blurry. Is "the writers must think the audience is stupid" an attack on show or on fans? I could see how someone might think they're just criticizing the art, but fans of the show would take it as a personal slight.
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Dom
Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:38am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@booming, the Washington Post article I posted above is a good guide to constructive criticism. Criticizing a story because it's not the story you want isn't good practice. There's a difference between "it didn't meet MY expectations" and "it didn't meet the expectations set up in the story itself"
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Dom
Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:24am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Booming, I probably wasn't clear, I was talking about criticism generally, including but not exclusively Disco. I don't know of the creators of Disco attaching fans, but Trek websites and Disco fans certainly have attacked other fans. With Star Wars, people associated with Lucasfilm certainly attacked fans (and I don't just mean calling out bigots).

I'd certainly never deny an artist's right to feel hurt! What we're seeing though I think is fundamentally different. As you alluded to, I think this is more about companies trying to shut down negative criticism. Ultimately, I come down on the side of saying ANY critique of the art is fair, whereas critiques of the artist - especially ones focusing on the artist's race or gender - should not be fair game. If people disagree with a critique, they can muster the evidence and analysis to support their side.

With all due respect, I do wonder if your attitude about GoT episode 5 isn't part of the problem. Why would people going "crazy" increase your enjoyment of the story? Isn't that a bit sadistic? Schadenfreude much? Why not just enjoy/dislike the story for what it is and let people who disagree go their own way?
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Dom
Sat, May 18, 2019, 8:19am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Booming, it's all over the internet, include sometimes in these forums fans attacking other fans. Vox just published an article about this:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/16/18618425/let-people-enjoy-things-criticism

I obviously don't condone people sending vile messages to creators, and it's a shame that it happens, but there's actually a pretty simple solution: don't check Twitter. I get that creators have to post things on social media, but they don't need to actually respond to every tweet. For fans, I'd say something similar. If someone disagrees with you, don't attack the person, attack the argument. If a bunch of fans start a petition to remake a film or TV show, ignore them. It's their right to be dumb (for the record, I loved the recent episode of Game of Thrones).

What we're seeing online isn't just disagreement about a movie or TV show, it's this notion that a lot of fans and creators have that disagreement itself can't be tolerated. I think a lot of fans want to feel like there's consensus and the fact of the matter is with millions of people out there consensus might just not be possible.

Huge caveat to this: if someone is being a bigot or harassing other people online, it absolutely makes sense to call them out. I don't know if that's always the most effective approach, but that's certainly morally defensible (I think blocking or ignoring trolls is probably more effective - trolls thrive on conflict).
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Dom
Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:21am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi, I agree and I was trying to support your point. I was also trying to go a step further though and defend the idea of criticism in general. But you're right, and I think one thing you point to shows a disturbing trend in pop culture. Back then, showrunners and actors and studios didn't publicly trash their fans. Yes, it must be frustrating to get letters or tweets condemning the show, but that's part of the process of the game. That's an inherent risk of putting your art into the world for all to see. Now, some of the people associated with these shows, professional critics, Trek websites, and fellow fans attack fans critical of a TV show or movie. And unfortunately this is a problem with both sides. Fans who don't like a show will harass critics, fans, etc who disagree. This level of personal attack is new for pop culture and deeply frustrating. We should all vigorously talk about our opinions about a show, but refrain from attacking the people expressing those opinions.
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Dom
Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi, agree very much. We're in this weird place with pop culture discourse where we not only disagree about the quality of a movie or TV show, but also about the extent to which it's legitimate to critique that quality. Vox just had a good piece about this with respect to Game of Thrones, but could equally apply to Discovery and The Last Jedi:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/16/18618425/let-people-enjoy-things-criticism

I generally liked the DS9 doc, but I thought that first scene came across like an undeserved pity fest. People need to realize that when you're talking about a pop culture franchise like Star Trek, millions of people watch it. Millions. That's a big number. That means you're always going to get a broad spectrum of opinion. Even if only 0.1% of people send nasty letters, that's still a 1,000 people. Fortunately, at the time the writers of DS9 had enough confidence in the show and pushed ahead.

There's another aspect to this discussion the doesn't get discussed nearly enough. A lot of these complaints about DS9 and TNG came during their first two seasons. A lot of fans, and even the DS9 doc, want to portray this as evidence that Trek fans are always resistant to change. But guess what? The first seasons of both shows were pretty bad! Would anyone associated with Trek really defend "Move Along Home" or "Code of Honor"? Sometimes the fan complaints were ridiculous (the captain's bald!), sometimes they were rude, but I also don't think the writers deserved glowing compliments at that point in their respective shows. If they hadn't gotten complaints, they might have gotten complacent, and then the shows wouldn't have pivoted around the end of Season 2 to become the classics that we all know and love. And guess what? Most of the fan complaints stopped once the shows got better!

Call me old fashioned, but the best complaint to fan criticism is to make a good show. Not to give in to fan demands or lavish fan service, but to make a quality piece of storytelling that you're proud of.
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RandomThoughts
Tue, May 14, 2019, 1:49am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S2: The Deadly Years

Hello Everyone!

@Jason R.

I really must agree with most of your comments. My thought is (without reviewing the comments again), how could that fellow be a Commodore, above a Captain, having never commanded a ship? Did he get that commission by being a good "supplies" commander, over time? A "chair-bound paper-pusher"?

Then he dis-regards the comments of the junior officers about traveling across the neutral zone. Is there a bulge in it they cannot go around? Or are they on the other side so, so far away that they have to cut across it to save time and they'll wave hello to Romulus and Remus along the way? Even an idiot would have known to take the fastest safe passage that doesn't break the treaty.

On the other hand, when I was 12, and Checkov finds the body, I was hooked/stunned. And we had ships shooting? Oh my gosh! I still have a soft spot for this episode, but not as soft as it used to be. Even then, I wondered how the Commodore could be so... stupid. He'd have been "retired" as soon as they got back to the Starbase....

Enjoy the day Everyone... RT
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Dougie
Sun, May 12, 2019, 1:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

/ˈ(h)yo͞obrəs/
On a dark night, during a violent storm over the ocean, some people on shore observe the oscillations of a floating collection of many colored electric lamps, connected with each other at long intervals and at the ends with two wires.
Although these colored lamps draw their current from one and the same source, yet since their rays pass through changing conditions of various kinds, some shine out to a distance, others affect each other as they interpenetrate, still others are completely swallowed up either mid- way or at the very place of their arising.
If two people are together, the closer they are to each other, the more intimate is the mixing of their atmospheres, and therefore the better is the contact achieved between their specific vibrations.
The blending and fusion of the specific vibrations given off by different people take place mechanically, depending on their situation in relation to each other and on the conditions they are in.
And so, among the people with whom I come in contact, the formation of the psychic factors necessary for the manifestation of attitudes diametrically opposed to me must inevitably occur in the following way:
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Dougie
Sat, May 11, 2019, 6:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

@Karl
Solipsism, and it's variants, is the philosophy of which you speak, and it is my philosophy. In my form, I believe only I exist - everything is an aspect of me. People might translate this as 'I am God'. It's more like: I am all and everything. It is not a narcissistic view. Actually, I've debated long and hard with my best friend whether it's really his universe, and I'm just an aspect, and would he please just relent and like tomatoes already.

The philosophy is considered "non verifiable." I have been trying for all my years to find the edge, peel it back, and find if it's real. This includes some very extensive experimentation in the 80's and 90's with the Dead. Extensive.

I admit that it can be just a feeling, but then life things happen that reinforce it. It falls in line with my death belief, so I think on the continuum, it all works out.

As for any alleged meaning to all this (waves arm), as it's my universe, I think Jerry and Bob said it best (by the way, one of my greatest creations) - we're going to hell in a bucket, shall we at least enjoy the ride?
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RandomThoughts
Sat, May 11, 2019, 1:24am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Memorial

Hello Everyone!

@acd hit it on the head for me. Partially fix the memorial, making it voluntary. Explain in the buoy message (multiple languages they've come across, I'd think) what the memorial is and what it says it's for. Tell about the BIG BUTTON they've added to it. Hit the button, relive the memory.

I thought about the ST:Voy episode Nemesis throughout the story.

Regards, Everyone... RT
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RandomThoughts
Fri, May 10, 2019, 9:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Virtuoso

Hello Everyone!

I won't post too much. I mostly agree with both the positive and negative assessments that have been posted before.

I did like how the folks on the planet didn't just say "Oh, you're right, we must see music your way" and went off doing their own thing.

But I did wonder how they never, even by accident, ever invented a wind chime? :)

Have a glorious day... RT
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Dom
Thu, May 9, 2019, 7:41am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi, agree. Mary Sue is a very loaded term. But criticism of any character is fair game. I've been saying for years we need a new (gender-neutral) term for characters at the center of a story who never struggle and magically have whatever skills and powers they need to resolve problems that come their way. I can certainly think of male and female characters who fit that mold.
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RandomThoughts
Wed, May 8, 2019, 4:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Force of Nature

@Trish

I enjoyed that. Sounds like something I'd do/write. :)

Regards... RT
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RandomThoughts
Sat, May 4, 2019, 3:23am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Hello Again, Everyone!

I just watched this for my second time, using Hulu, and had missed the part about the special serum during the storm warnings. But, I didn't miss all that much. :)

I've seen a couple of comments saying something along the lines of "...if Ed isn't the Captain, the Kaylon win the battle..." (paraphrase), and those folks finding fault with Ed being the saving grace. It isn't just Ed. If Kelly doesn't get him this command, she isn't the second in command, and Gordon isn't on the ship either. After Kelly demanded to head out to find allies, with Gordon as the pilot, they never pull the stunt with the drive to get them to Krill space.

So, so many threads to pull, but that one stood out for me. Ed didn't save the Union, it was the people around him (since he was there as Captain) that saved the day (including Claire then dating Isaac).

On the other hand, if Kelly wasn't on the Orville, who notices LaMar is really smart and makes him the head of engineering? *ouch* *brain hurts again* At least, he Seemed to be an engineer when they went to the Trench to find the ship, as he was the only one in the engine room trying to make the plan go forward.

I just hope, if and when there is a third season, LaMar doesn't go blind...

Regards Everyone... just some... random thoughts...

RT
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phaedon
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 7:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

DISCO is a train wreck. This season was the worst, but I can't look away. I still can't figure out how they found Tig Notaro. The Sphere is the most ridiculously glossed over Macguffin of all time. All-seeing mom doesn't see the Red Angel stuck in a time loop? When Po showed up, I felt like I was watching Star Trek: NCIS. I will absolutely blow my colon if they bring Picard on for Season 3.
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Dom
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 9:32am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

"there's always been a tendency for the series' writers to leave big narrative gaps and expect us to fill in the ellipses with our imaginations. This creates a sense of sloppiness more than anything else, as if the writers couldn't be bothered to put in the time to create narrative clarity and credibility."

Man this applies to so much writing on TV and in movies nowadays.
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Dom
Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 7:43am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Peter G, I think you hit the nail on the head on how we should think about reviewing movies. After Last Jedi, a Washington Post reviewer explained her thoughts on this

"Before you review any film... ask yourself three questions: What was the artist trying to achieve? Did he or she achieve it? And was it worth doing?"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-last-jedi-backlash-provides-a-useful-primer-in-how-not-to-watch-a-movie/2018/01/04/6fa9a72c-f142-11e7-b3bf-ab90a706e175_story.html?utm_term=.04bb20aed2fd

Even after all that said, I find I still can't get on board with Discovery. But I also feel like I gave the show a chance on its own terms and didn't just hold it up against the nostalgia I have for DS9 or TNG.
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