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Dave in MN
Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 7:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Old Wounds

I usually don't criticize something without exposing myself to it with an open mind. But that's just me.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 2:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

How have they presented the Union as a perfect utopia?

Aren't they allied with bigoted Moclus? Yep.

Don't they have inflexible Admirals with ethically questionable command decisions? They sure seem to.

The Union Council tentatively approved of the death penalty for Isaac. Would a perfect utopia make such a choice?

I could go on and on, but in short, it seems to me that the Union is actually presented as a post-scarcity bureaucracy.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 1:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

For the record, I'm 100% on board with using temporal terminology in classifying literary movements.

I guess my point is that the term "Golden Age" refers to the blossoming of an entire genre (with all of its various categories and styles) during a specific time period. I wouldn't use "Golden Age" as a descriptor for tropes or allegory, but that's just my understanding of the term.

Now I''m becoming the pedantic one! The irony does not go unnoticed. ;)

(I''m glad soneone brought this topic up. Last night I ended up reading some old Galaxy mags that are in the public domain haha)
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 11:35am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Project Daedalus

^

That was actually a very plausible explanation, Daya. Kudos, seriously!

My only (tiny) addendum would be that if the system wasn't aligned with the galactic disc, it should be sensible for any ship to automatically align with the orbital plane of that particular system. After all, the shortest distances possible between planets are planar.

Who knows when it might be necessary to find soneone hiding on a moon or to stop a incoming comet?

Again, thanks for the theory, Daya. Great deduction!
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Dave in MN
Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 7:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

@Gerontius

100% agree.

Ed will have drinks on his off time (and an occassional cannabis edible). He's an adult.

Besides, think about how everyone was in 10 Forward drinking all the time.l and no one ccslls them alkies! (Yes, I know, synthehol not alcohol, but still, most of the cast of TNG were drunks in comparison to Ed!)
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Dave in MN
Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 6:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

Can we stop speaking of the "Golden Age of Sci-Fi" as if it's this monolithic singularity in the history of literature?

I already went into the particulars above about certain authors, but come on!

The so-called Golden Age writers had completely different talents, ambitions, worldviews and prose styles. Sone eschewed allegory to pursue "hard SF" and/or futurism, others chose it as a lens to focus on human nature, and others used it as a window dressing to hang age-old heroic archetypes upon. (Funnily enough, The Orvilke actually does all three at certain points.)

The Golden Age is a period in time, not a subgenre of SF.

Can we move forward from this pedantic argument and get back to focusing on the show?

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Dave in MN
Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 12:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Identity, Part II

@Bert

What you're decrying as assumptive isn't actually so.

If you watched the whole series, you'd know that Kaylon are overtly rational and have extreme black & white thinking. Everything is reduced to a ensuing blunt "yes or no" choice. There is a consistency with the way Isaac has been presented that makes it obvious to this viewer.

In a way, they are the binary version of robotic BPD: Kaylon live by a selfish calculus. They are only concerned with what benefits them, empathy is only a pretense.

Part of the reason ID 1&2 worked (for me) was seeing how Isaac slowly recognized and asserted to Kaylon Prime that there were other logical options to pursue other than merciless violence.

This is a logical end to a multi- season character arc. It iisn't an assumption to say Isaac's eventual flip back in allegiance to T.O. crew and his sacrificial suicide shows that he grew beyond his initial function and programming.
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Dave in MN
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:43pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

*auto co-wrecked

That should say "nevermind the short stories by those..."
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Dave in MN
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

The 50's pulps had everything from color-by-number bad short fiction from Murray Leinster and L Ron Hubbard to highly praised intellectual works by Fritz Leiber and Frederick Pohl, nevermind thr sirtis by those who blurred genre lines like Richard Matheson and Harlan Ellison. Nothing unites these disparate tales other than having sci-fi elements.
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Dave in MN
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 5:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

@ Alanrrhoid

"So what you're saying is..." is a common staple of irrational argument.

It's always preferable to present an opposing view rather than mocking yout opponent for something they didn't actually say.

If that was what Trent intended to say, he would've used those words. Such statements just make you appear unconvincing and biased by your emotion.
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Dave in MN
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 6:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

@ Bert

If you want me to read your full opinions, don't start off by spsychoalayzing and insulting other commenters.

I'm not in the mood to read vitriol so I didn't read past the second sentence, sorry.
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Dave in MN
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 1:43pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Booming

#1. I''m gay.

#2. Your nebbish superiority complex and constant negativity has grown tiresome to me. I'm not going to interact with you anymore.
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Dave in MN
Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 12:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

^

Agree completely with John, except I'd nick off a half star for the CGI "Talosians" and the Spore Gay Conversion therapy.
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Dave in MN
Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 11:58am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

I think bringing Teleya back in this episode would have completely changed the focus & dynamic of this episode. It wouldn't be a rumination on the bonds of friendship and duty, that's for sure.

For the record, I enjoy the fact that we actually got a serious examination of platonic male friendship. I can't think of the last time I saw a single episode of a TV show that so concisely explores the subject with insight and humanity.

Anyways, if she'd appeared in this episode, a lot of people would instantly nitpick that Teleya went from teacher to spy to diplomat in the span of a year AND they'd nitpick that, out of billions of Krill, we keep seeing the same person over and over again.

Side note: are the Krill a patriarchal society? Other than Teleya, I can't recall any Krill females in leadership positions. If so, I'm guessing the Anhkana has something to do though that.

Overall, I do agree with the general sentiment here.

I definitely want to see Teleya again (soon)!
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Dave in MN
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 11:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

@ Gerontius

I remember Jody making catty "single mother" fail comments about Claire's parenting. Also, I forgot about this, but her son James made a racist joke about Bortus eating his homework. That family definitely has a superiority complex.
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Dave in MN
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 6:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

I agree with Gerontius: I think they are generally more enlightened than our current society. People still have their personal flaws, but prejudice and intolerance have mostly* been set by the wayside.

*excerpt for Jody from J'aloja and Klyden
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Dave in MN
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 10:08am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

I just decided to use the "Find In Page" feature to search this discussion. I wanted to see the context in which the show is being brought up ... you know, if T.O. fans are inserting themselves into the discussion, drawing comparisons, etc.

So I typed "Orville" in the search box and pushed enter.

Do I need to spell out what I found?

There's a reason Jammer wants the back & forth fanbase attacks to stop. If you can't see his reasoning, replicate my little experiment and draw your own conclusions.
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Dave in MN
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 9:57am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Rob S

Great point!

I'm sure the religious fundamentalists of the future will be pleased. Who needs gay conversion therapy when you can just send your kids to the Upside Down?
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Dave in MN
Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 9:52am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

We're only 23 episodes into the series, a number less than the total first season of TNG.

I actually think it's pretty amazing they've created this many different cultures/ species with their own motivations and customs (a entire fictional universe) in so short a time.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

@Trent

I didn't know that (and I feel kind of weird being privy to that info).

Seth seems like a really cool guy, I hope he finds his Mrs. Right!
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Icarus Factor

Is Riker's father the only dysfunctional uncaring parent we have seen in Trek?

In a way, it's brave they depicted Kyle Riker as such a uncompromising unrepentant a-hole. I mean, in execution the episode leaves something to be desired, but still, it was nice to see a more "real" flawed human on the generally sedate Enterprise.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 4:06pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

@Yanks

Somewhere upthread I posted a response to your query about the rare Xeleyan disease and I reread my response and ... yeah I was shooting for snarky but it came across as rude. Sorry about that.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 3:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

My apologies, Jammer.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 3:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: If Memory Serves

Last time i'm saying this: I can't vouch for what others are reporting, i'm just relaying the message.

It may not be true, I don't know. (For the record, it seems to pass the smell test for me personally, but that's just my best conjecture as a third party.)

But considering the historical track record of those relaying the information, there's enough of an actual tangible chance that this is actually happening where I felt comfortable sharing it ... whether it ruffle a few feathers or not.
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Dave in MN
Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 2:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Identity, Part II

@SlackerInc

Add me to the "Neelix was annoying" camp. His creepy possessiveness of the overly young naive Kes and his incessant mockery of Vulcan customs was/is a total turn-off for me.

I literally see no parallels to Captain Mercer.

(Oh, and Bert's Commander Cocktease comment still bothers me: Bert reduces Kelly Grayson to a sexual object because ... why, exactly? She broke up with Cassius? Whatever. )

And re the Isaac discussion:

He's an AI programmed with commands he has no control over. On a logical level, it makes 100% sense that he could seemingly flip allegiance because he's programmed to do so.

Because of his interactions with the crew (especially the Finn family) and the existential threat to their existence, Isaac's ability to assert his own free will and exceed the limitations of his programming occurred. He had to overcome his own binary programming bias and that took time, as it seems it naturally would.
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