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Cletus
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 11:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Msw,
Data sings blue skies in nemesis - that movie is almost required viewing for this show.
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Cletus
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 10:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Hmm, I don't believe anyone critical of Pic has found no redeeming qualities to it, many freely point out nice moments or cool ideas it brought forth. Same with disco - I think Pike got universal acclaim from everyone for example. So I think most critics watch with an open mind to see if this time the showrunners can knock it out of the park, or at least give us those nice scattered moments here and there - I do not think anyone is actively rooting for trek to fail.

Its now been 3 seasons though - do any big fans of these shows think their best eps compare to the best eps of prior trek?
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Cletus
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 6:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

The disappointing thing about Pic is that, of the many trek shows in dev, this is probably the series they gave the most care, thought, and planning given its legacy. There wasnt the constant bts writer turmoil disco suffered. If this is the best creative force cbs could muster, things do not look promising.

Still have fingers crossed that one of the 2 unnamed shows kurtz mentioned will end up being more episodic with any arc (every non-anthology streaming show must have some type of season arc now it seems) just laying in the background rather than constantly at the fore - he did it with fringe so it's not foreign to him.
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Cletus
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 1:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Well that was underwhelming. The data sendoff and riker and 7-with-rios moments were nice and thankfully the space battle was short, yet they still couldnt help throwing everything at the screen just like disco. But otherwise we get the usual plot and character sloppiness that has plagued all 3 seasons of kurtrek.

I knew we were getting a different trek given stewarts comments and after the pilot, which was intriguing and I was onboard seeing where writers could take us, but all that potential was steadily squandered week after week until the finale landed with a thud.
We at least got Nepenthe out of it, and 7 as part of the crew, so not a total loss.

And good grief at that quick disco teaser, Burnham just saved the galaxy, now she is the lone vanguard in saving the Federation, she is so awesome.
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Cletus
Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 5:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

"just can't accept anything that isn't 90s Trek"

Or 60s trek, or 80s trek, or 00s trek.

Trek has a pedigree. It can (and should!) offer new things and reinvent itself - without abandoning that pedigree and ethos. Or having poor and haphazard writing - these guys spend months prepping and in a writers room knocking out the season, and yet we still get disjointed and messy plot and characterization.

Even if you have no attachment to prior Trek and just watch Pic or Disco on their own, they exhibit poor writing with occasional flashes of quality (which is why I still watch). Yes, so did other Trek, but it's much more pronounced when you're doing a season long arc and not isolated episodes, since everything hinges together (especially with the Disco/Pic approach where things are constantly hinted at to later be revealed (mind-shattering secret!), you really gotta stick the landing in that case to reward the audience's trust), and the writers should be accordingly held to a higher standard if they are committing to that format.
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Cletus
Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 10:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

Yeesh, when i heard Chabon and experienced old school trek writers like Beyer were helping shepherd this, i figured we would escape Disco fare, but nope, we are getting messy plot threads dangling everywhere and yet another galaxy ending threat resolved by big space battle. 9 episodes led to this? This is the amazing story that drew Stewart back? Theres maybe been 20 or so mins of nice picard character moments in 9 hours.

I enjoy the redlettermedia guys but found their pic reviews overly cynical and obnoxious, but they may be right in asserting pre nu-trek is gone and never coming back if Kurtzman remains the Feige of Trekverse.
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Cletus
Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 4:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

@Booming

Let's just go with facts presented, not speculation: the evac is underway. Everyone's feeling the Trek optimism good fuzzy vibes. The defense capacity of the Fed gets nuked. There are now few ships available, and the ability to create more is severely hindered. The Fed is now in an extremely vulnerable and precarious position just in a matter of hours (don't ask me why the Fed has everything tied up in a single point of failure of Mars, but this is the situation). Clancy now has a decision to make - do we continue with what little remaining resources we have in restarting the humanitarian mission, or do we recommit all remaining resources in order to shore up defense while we try to investigate what in the world's going on and recover?

Apparently there was some wider debate about this because the 14 members chime in, arguing for the latter and threatening secession - perhaps they fear some type of imminent invasion or wider attack on fed members, perhaps they even think Romulans are somehow involved given that Nemesis was within recent memory. So if that first decision wasn't tough enough for Clancy, she now has to deal with members leaving, and who knows if that might precipitate more members leaving or exacerbate fractures in the Fed.

So Clancy is in a very DS9-ish dilemma - tough choices. She chose pragmatism over idealism, Sisko v Picard all over again.
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Cletus
Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 3:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Maps and Legends

"non evil starfleet officer in the first two episodes??"

Why is Clancy evil? Ships and personnel were given for the evac, it was underway - then you had the synth attack obliterating ship capacity and resources and inflicting mass casualties, not to mention leaving the Fed vulnerable to someone who might exploit the chaos to do further damage. On top of that you have 13 member worlds threatening secession if the evac was restarted, causing further destabilization. Tough decisions and competing priorities aren't "evil". There are much more "evil" officers in Trek history.
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Cletus
Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 11:19am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

@Booming,

"It appeared to me that Synth are no longer allowed to exist. What happened with the existing ones? Were they allowed to continue to exist and if they wanted to make new ones were they not allowed. Isn't that the synth equivalent of sterilization? And if all the remaining synth were shut down Blade runner style then wouldn't that basically be a genocide because some synth committed an act of terror?"

Again, lots of reasonable questions, but also lots of speculation because we haven't been given enough info on current state of society or just what exactly went down between Picard and the top brass, which is why the cries about "this is not my optimistic star trek!" because of what a sensationalist reporter said to provoke Picard seem premature.

But I'm surprised you think "genocide" of synths is somehow completely alien to Trek - we have holograms being used as slave labor in VOY, androids being treated as co-optable property in TNG even after Measure of a Man in Offpsring, forcible relocation of people in TNG with Journey's End, and actual planned genocide of a species in TNG with I Borg/Descent and DS9 with When it Rains.

@John Harmon
"I really hope it’s not Picard inspiring the Federation back into being “good.” That sounds so hamfisted and terrible. And is what they already did with Discovery season 1, having Michael Burnham make Starfleet see the error of its ways."

Burnham and S1's ending were completely unearned was the main problem with that. The message that ideals have to be continually fought for and good men can't do nothing, the fed "utopia" cannot just be taken for granted, did not come across as hamfisted in the top-tier episode Drumhead for example - it's a good optimistic Trek message.

"Having the random admiral be corrupt is far different from an entire civilization being corrupt."

The point of the admirals, cadets/captains, and even Fed Council itself, being corrupt is to give some context to the oft-repeated claim that the Fed is just some utopia and humanity has moved beyond all vices and cynicism, and that anything that even approaches humanity and fed not being perfect is "grimdark non-trek".

"It’s beyond absurdity to think a culture made up of 150 different planets could be isolationist and xenophobic."

I agree, which is why I hope we get more info in later eps on the broader state of Earth and the Fed. Right now we just have an exchange between a sensationalist reporter and the idealistic Picard. I imagine the truth will be more nuanced and lie somewhere in the middle.
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Cletus
Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 4:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Remembrance

"One of them being that the Federation is a humanist utopia."

And yet we have many examples of Federation officers, leaders and orgs not living up to that ideal, off top of head
TNG: Drumhead, Measure of a Man, Offspring, I Borg/Descent, First Duty, Pegasus, Insurrection
TOS: Undiscovered Country
VOY: The hologram eps, Equinox
ENT: quite a few but ignoring since it's pre-Fed so is often dismissed
DS9: Too many to list, but ignoring since this is often dismissed as non-trek as well.

With now every story being season-long, I view Picard 1st ep as the first 10 minutes of a traditional Trek episode. In start of those eps we usually got the bad admiral or fed directive, by end of ep we got the optimistic/cautionary message. I imagine same will hold true for PIC by end of 10th ep.

And even with this episode in isolation, it is not some dystopian "non-trek". The synth ban is hardly a surprise given trek's low view of AI in previous series. The Fed did not ignore the Romulans, but tried to help evacuate them, got blindsided by the attack, then had to re-prioritize with the new lack of resources and vulnerability. Yes Picard wanted the evac to continue, his idealism remains true to the character, and perhaps he'll re-inspire the Fed by end of season. The xenophobia and racism expressed by a sensationalist reporter does not necessarily speak for the entire Fed, any more than Kirk did in TUC - more info needs to be given on state of current society.
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